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Officials Under Pressure To Explain Mysterious Drones; Interview With Pequannock, New Jersey Mayor Ryan Herd; Manhattan D.A. Calls Celebration Of CEO Killing "Abhorrent"; Trump Attends Army-Navy Game As Incoming Cabinet Takes Shape; McConnell Condemns Efforts To Undermine Effective Vaccines; Interview With Member Of FDA Vaccine Advisory Committee Dr. Paul Offit; RFK Jr's Lawyer Asked FDA To Revoke Polio Vaccine Approval; Blinken: U.S. Has Been In Direct Contact With Syria Rebel Group; Trump Vows To End "Costly" Daylight Saving Time. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired December 14, 2024 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:00:27]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN ANCHOR: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jessica Dean in New York.

And new developments today in the mysterious drone sightings over New Jersey and New York. New York Governor Kathy Hochul issuing a new alert today after an airport shut down temporarily due to a drone sighting, saying, quote, "this has gone too far".

Sightings have locals concerned the federal government is not telling the whole truth about these incidents. And for the better part of a month now, people have been reporting consistent sightings of unidentified aircrafts all over the tri-state area.

But agencies like Homeland Security and the Pentagon say these aircrafts are not a threat to public safety.

CNN's Omar Jimenez has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. JOSH GOTTHEIMER (D-NJ): There has to be some explanation to the public for all this increased activity, and they must do so now.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And yet there hasn't been. Even as the federal government says, there's no evidence of any national security or public safety threats.

And there have been growing calls for answers as drone sightings continue in New Jersey, and now also the New York metropolitan area.

GOTTHEIMER: They must immediately disclose more information to the public. It's totally and completely unacceptable. New Jersey can't become the wild west of drone activity. No state can become the wild west of drone activity. JIMENEZ: It's now been a month since some of the first drones were

reported near a military installation in northern New Jersey.

Since then, there have been dozens of reported sightings, as some federal officials throw cold water on some of those reports.

JOHN KIRBY, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL COMMUNICATIONS ADVISER: We have not been able to, and neither have state or local law enforcement authorities, corroborate any of the reported visual sightings.

It appears that many of the reported sightings are actually manned aircraft that are being operated lawfully.

JIMENEZ: And in a joint statement, the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI said in part they're working to confirm whether the reported drone flights are actually drones or are instead manned aircraft or otherwise inaccurate sightings.

Despite attempts by officials to calm concerns, videos of reported drones in the skies are still popping up all over social media.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow, they just passed the truck.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. We have never seen that before.

JIMENEZ: Including these from New Jersey Senator Andy Kim as he went out with local police Thursday night.

Former Maryland Governor Larry Hogan also posting his own possible drone sighting, writing on X, "I personally witnessed what appeared to be dozens of large drones in the sky above my residence. I do not know if this increasing activity over our skies is a threat to public safety or national security."

There is even a downed drone that was reported in Morris County, New Jersey, but it was later revealed to be a hobby or toy drone. All the while without a definitive explanation, questions have filled the vacuum.

New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy, writing to President Joe Biden expressing concern about the reported drone sightings and asking for more federal resources, saying in part, "Existing laws limit the ability of state and local law enforcement to counter UAS or unmanned aircraft systems. It has become apparent that more resources are needed to fully understand what is behind this activity."

New York Governor Kathy Hochul confirming that drones have also been spotted in New York, posting on X, "At this time, there's no evidence that these drones pose a public safety or a national security threat."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: All right. That was Omar Jimenez. Thanks for that reporting.

And joining us now, Ryan Herd, he's the mayor of Pequannock, New Jersey where some of these sightings have been happening. Mayor, thanks so much for joining us.

First, I just want to hear what you've seen, what your constituents say they've seen.

MAYOR RYAN HERD (R), PEQUANNOCK, NEW JERSEY: well, thank you for having me, Jessica.

What I have personally seen roughly a week and a half ago was over 60 drones flying over the township of Pequannock. Now, these are very large drones. They're about 200 feet off of the houses, and they are flying in a grid pattern.

I was, you know, right around Thanksgiving, my residents started reaching out to me and saying, what's going on with these drones? And you have Thanksgiving, you have Black Friday, you have everything else.

Then I started getting more and more calls from this. And I go outside, I start realizing, wow, this is something.

DEAN: But what is it? What do you think it is?

HERD: That's a great question. And here's the problem. We're not getting any answers.

You know, after that, I called up the governor. I called up Mikey Sheryl's office. I called up everybody I knew to find out if anybody knows anything. And I'm getting the answer of nobody knows anything.

And then I started reaching out to all the mayors in Morris County, of which there's 39.

[17:04:51]

HERD: And we're frustrated. That's why I penned this letter to really find out what's going on. We need more help from the federal government to answer this question, which is what is flying over our houses?

DEAN: And why do you think they can't tell us exactly what it is although they have said it's not a threat? But we still don't have any firm answers.

And I'm sure that's frustrating to you as you're explaining.

HERD: It's extremely frustrating. I mean, it's not a threat until it is a threat.

Now, I want to go a little bit into history. So if we look back to the 60s, we've got the Cuban missile crisis. Now, these are big missiles that could have hit America.

In 2001, we had 9/11 where planes were used, and unfortunately 3,000 men and women lost their lives. Now we have drones. Now, I don't want to be a fearmonger, but the

issue is I get this intelligence briefing that basically says if a drone comes down, it crashes, it lands or anything next to you, you are to call 911. The bomb squad is to go out, and only people in hazmat suits are allowed to approach this. That's scary.

What is going on? And I demand answers now.

DEAN: Yes. Where did that come from? Who gave you that briefing that gave that information to you?

HERD: New Jersey division of fire safety.

DEAN: Wow. And so now we have President-Elect Donald Trump. He's weighing in on this. He says the public has a right to know, and that if the federal government doesn't start saying what's happening, that maybe it's time to shoot the drones out of the sky.

I mean, is that kind of -- are you there yet? Do you think that's an option that it should be considered?

HERD: That is an interesting option. So let me just make sure that we're not asking them to shoot them out of the sky over anybody's houses. So maybe over the ocean, I can go for that. But definitely not over land.

This is what I suggest actually. I suggest that we make a coalition of every single mayor in the state of New Jersey, every single elected leader, regardless of whether you're Republican or Democrat.

This is not about politics. We have drones that are flying over critical infrastructure. They're flying over our residents' houses. They're flying over our houses, our families. They deserve to have peace of mind.

We need to find out what's going on. And I'm calling on the federal government to step up and help us, give us the tools we need to track these.

Because let me tell you what we're not going to do. We need to find out who they are, what they are, who is flying these, whatever is going on. We're not going to shoot one down. We're not going to try to catch one, and we're not going to send up a hobby drone to try to take pictures.

You know, the unintended consequences of that is way too big. God forbid one of these drones the size of a car crashes into your neighbor's house and kills everyone.

I don't ever want that to happen. But what we are going to do, let's focus on getting clean pictures, as good as possible. Video, audio. If you have a flare camera just so we could see what kind of engine this is using. Is the heat signature coming down or back?

We need Americas help to solve this problem because the government is not. DEAN: Wow. All right, Mayor Ryan Herd, thank you so much. And maybe

there will be answers sometime soon, hopefully for all of you who I know, it's obviously very disconcerting that these things are flying over your homes.

Thank you so much.

HERD: Thank you.

DEAN: The man who will lead the prosecution of Luigi Mangione is calling the support for the accused killer, quote, "abhorrent". But support for the man accused of killing the CEO of UnitedHealthcare seems to only be growing online.

Here's more now from CNN's Randi Kaye.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He's accused of cold-blooded murder on a New York City street. Yet support for Luigi Mangione is exploding online.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If we let O.J. off the hook, why can't we let Luigi off the hook?

KAYE: On TikTok, the hashtag "Free Luigi" is inspiring videos like these.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need to go ahead and get down to business and figure out how we're going to help my boy, Luigi. We need to put some money on the man's books, make sure he can have honey buns for days, ok, while he's in there.

KAYE: This TikToker echoed frustrations, writing, "People are tired of being treated like a number."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People get into these jobs and positions and forget that these numbers that they're interacting with affects actual people's lives.

KAYE: Others offering themselves up as alibis.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Listen, Luigi Mangione could not have killed that CEO that morning. I know because he was on a Zoom call with me organizing a fundraiser for kids and canines with cancer. Free Luigi.

KAYE: The propping up of Mangione is so outsized, one TikToker even suggested "Time" magazine should make him their person of the year.

[17:09:51]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Free my boy. He didn't even do it.

KAYE: Mangione has inspired merchandise, too. Online retailers are selling "Free Luigi" Christmas ornaments, sweatshirts, and coffee mugs, one emblazoned with the words "I'm in love with a criminal." Mangione's lawyer told CNN that people have been reaching out to his office offering to pay Mangione's legal bills. He's not sure he'd accept the money.

THOMAS DICKEY, LUIGI MANGIONE'S ATTORNEY: Obviously, my client appreciates the support that he has, but it just doesn't sit right with me.

KAYE: A legal defense fund has also been set up on behalf of Mangione. By Wednesday afternoon, the fund had reached over $30,000. Some of the anonymous donors included the words "deny, defend, depose" in their message. At least one referred to Mangione as an American hero.

In Altoona, Pennsylvania, where Mangione was arrested at a McDonald's after an employee called police, support for him has given rise to threats in the community.

CHIEF DEREK SWOPE, ALTOONA POLICE: We have received some threats against our officers and building here. We've started investigating some threats against some citizens in our community. We're taking all those threats seriously.

KAYE: The McDonald's is being targeted, too. Fake reviewers online writing, "Never eating at this McDonald's again. Imagine going to grab a Big Mac and witnessing Officer Snitchy McSnitch, employee of the month, calling the feds on a hero," referring to Mangione.

Another fake review reads "Why go here when Taco Bell is just across the way and knows how to keep their mouths shut?"

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning to everyone other than the person that snitched on my dog Luigi. Like, didn't your mother teach you snitches get stitches?

KAYE: Back in New York City, so-called wanted posters have turned up, possibly suggesting some sort of rallying cry. The posters show faces of executives and CEOs, including Brian Thompson, who Mangione allegedly gunned down. His is marked with a red X. It's unclear who is behind the posters.

Randi Kaye, CNN -- Atlanta.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

DEAN: Still ahead, President-Elect Trump at the 125th Army-Navy football game today with several allies in tow, including Defense secretary pick Pete Hegseth. We're going to talk about that with our panel and more next.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

[17:12:03]

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DEAN: President-Elect Donald Trump is at the 125th Army-Navy football game today, just outside of Washington.

And he's being joined by Pete Hegseth, his pick to serve as secretary of Defense as well as Vice President-Elect JD Vance.

For more on the next Trump administration and how its taking shape, let's bring in our panel now.

CNN senior political commentator Scott Jennings and CNN contributor Lulu Garcia-Navarro. It's great to have both of you here.

Scott, let's start first with you.

Obviously, Pete Hegseth has had a lot of controversy swirling around him. Is it worth, do you think, the political capital it's going to take to expend that on getting him confirmed.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Of course. I mean, this is the president's guy. I mean, he wouldn't have picked him if he didn't think it was worth the fight.

And I think they knew when they picked a nontraditional choice like this, like Pete Hegseth, that, you know, they were going to have to work for it.

And Hegseth is not without responsibility here. He ultimately has to go to the table at his hearing, be sworn in, answer questions, talk about his resume, his experience, his abilities, and answer questions about everything that's come up during the process.

So yes, I do think it's worth it. Will he make it? I don't know. It's really on his shoulders, ultimately, to convince these senators that he's the right person for the job.

But I'll tell you this Donald Trump was elected to do nontraditional things. He's a nontraditional pick. I think the American people are willing to give Pete Hegseth a chance. And I think a lot of these Senate Republicans are increasingly of that mind as well.

DEAN: Lulu, I do want to get your thoughts on that. But also, too, I just want to note that Vice President-Elect JD Vance invited Daniel Penny, a marine veteran, to the game just days after he was acquitted of choking to death a homeless man on a New York subway.

What do you make of that invitation and the message that they're trying to send?

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN COMMENTATOR: I think that became a very -- he became a very popular figure, specifically on the right. People felt that it was unfair that he had been put through a trial. And ultimately they see him as a cause celeb.

And so it's a populist move to bring him there, to show that, you know, the narrative that they have is that he was doing his, you know, duty, trying to save people from a man who was clearly unwell and caused a threat. And so they feel that it's good messaging for them in terms of law and order. In regards to Pete Hegseth, all I can say about that is that it does

seem like senators are perhaps looking at some of the other questionable picks that Donald Trump has made instead of Pete Hegseth

But let's be clear here, the problems with Pete Hegseth do not have to do with him being untraditional. They have to do with very serious allegations, whether he might have committed sexual assault, whether he has problems with alcohol abuse and whether he has really not been able to manage even small charities that he was tasked with running.

DEAN: And, you know, Scott, Lulu points out that there are some other picks that that senators are kind of looking at as well, including Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who Trump has tapped to lead Health and Human Services.

[17:19:50]

DEAN: The FDA says it's now reviewing this petition from his campaign lawyer, asking the FDA to revoke approval of the polio vaccine.

We heard from Mitch McConnell in a statement, who is himself a polio survivor who has voiced his displeasure with RFK Jr.'s views on vaccines, and certainly he knows firsthand how important the polio vaccine is. I'm curious, though, because I think a lot of us also remember how he spoke out after January 6th but ultimately did not act on convicting then-former president Trump, now President-Elect Trump.

Just you've worked with him, you know that world. What do you think about all of that?

JENNINGS: Well, specifically on the polio vaccine issue, McConnell obviously is a polio survivor, as you pointed out, and has been an outspoken supporter of how many millions of lives the polio vaccine and other vaccines have saved.

He's long been a supporter of progress in medical science and in medical innovation. I think if RFK said something like, I'd like to do away with all vaccines, that would be a problem.

But I don't think that's what he's going to do. I think if he goes to the table during his confirmation hearing and says, everything I do at HHS is going to be data driven.

Any decisions we make about any kind of health care or this vaccine, that vaccine, any kind of new innovations that come along, we want to make sure we have proper data, proper scientific process. That's the correct answer. So I'm really hopeful that that's his posture.

There may be people around him or that have been around him in the past that say things, but they're not the ones going under confirmation here. He is. What he says will matter.

And absolutely, if he shows up and takes a more strident anti-vaccine view or says something crazy like, I want to revoke the polio vaccine, that would be a problem. But I really, really don't think that's what's going to happen. I

think he's going to be more measured. And of course, he'll have to do all this under oath.

DEAN: And what do you think, Lulu?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But we also know that that's well, we know that that's what he believes though. I mean, there is a very long record of him being very anti-vaccine. And we also know that his lawyer, who has been involved at the moment with vetting people for any future posts at HHS, has actually taken steps to challenge the legitimacy of the polio vaccine, which you rightly say Scott, has saved millions of lives, including so many children.

I mean, it is unimaginable to think that one of the biggest advances of science would somehow see their permissions revoked.

And so, you know, it raises huge questions. These aren't just sort of ideological issues. These are issues that really impact people's safety, their health. And you know, what he says or doesn't say, there is a long history there of him speaking very openly about his views on vaccines.

DEAN: All right.

Scott Jennings --

JENNINGS: Can I just --

DEAN: -- go ahead. Yes.

JENNINGS: Can I just follow up on that?

DEAN: Yes.

JENNINGS: Look, I think I think Lulu makes very good points about questions that have been raised, but that's the point of a confirmation process. Questions get asked, things emerge.

Ultimately, you go to the Senate, you sit at a table, you put your hand up, you're under oath, and you will get very direct questions about some of the things Lulu just said.

And when you're under oath and you're talking to those senators, that's when the rubber hits the road. And so for everything that's happened up until that moment when you go under oath and you're actually under direct examination, to me, that's what I'm looking for out of RFK.

And look, he is going to have to answer a bunch of questions because he's been involved with a bunch of different things over the course of his career. And he's going to have to have the right answers when he sits there. He may well have confirmation issues.

DEAN: All right.

So Scott Hennings says, I think what you're saying is trust the process. Is that right?

JENNINGS: Trust the process. Yes. That's the point of it. It's mandated by the constitution. It's been working well for a couple of hundred years, so I think we ought to keep doing it.

DEAN: All right.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think, you know, Scott -- Scott, I agree with you. I just think the big question is, why did President-Elect Donald Trump, you know, put him forward to begin with, with all these questions about his beliefs?

DEAN: Yes. Why not pick someone that might have an easier time?

Scott Jennings and Lulu Garcia-Navarro, we thank both of you. Have a great Saturday.

JENNINGS: Thank you.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Thank you.

DEAN: Still ahead, as we mentioned, the polio vaccine now in the headlines after saving lives for years. What would happen if that vaccine mandate was revoked? That's next.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

[17:24:14]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: Before the break, we talked a little bit about how the FDA is now reviewing a petition from Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s campaign lawyer asking the FDA to revoke approval of the polio vaccine.

We're now being joined by Dr. Paul Offit, the director of vaccine education -- of the Vaccine Education Center at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, also a member of the FDA Vaccine Advisory Committee.

Doctor, great to have you here.

I first just want to get your general thoughts on this idea that RFK Jr., who has obviously been nominated to lead Health and Human Services, that his lawyer is asking the FDA to essentially revoke the approval of the polio vaccine.

DR. PAUL OFFIT, MEMBER, FDA VACCINE ADVISORY COMMITTEE: Well, it's nonsensical.

I mean, at the heart of this petition is the fact that this vaccine wasn't tested in prospective placebo-controlled trials. But in fact, the polio vaccine, which was first introduced in 1955, this vaccine, which is to say an inactivated viral vaccine, was tested in the largest prospective placebo-controlled trial in vaccine history.

400,000 children got the vaccine, 200,000 got placebo and 1.2 million children was observed on inoculated controls to show that the vaccine worked and was safe.

[17:29:49]

OFFIT: But let me tell you about what the sort of casual cruelty of placebo-controlled trials. That vaccine worked. The reason we knew that it worked is that 36 children were paralyzed in that trial, 34 were paralyzed by polio in the placebo group, 16 children died of polio in that study, all in the placebo group.

So, but for the flip of a coin, those children could have lived long, healthy lives. And thus is the nature of placebo-controlled trials.

So asking to do another placebo-controlled trial now, knowing that there was a case of polio in New York in 2022, and that case represented the tip of a much bigger iceberg.

Because only one of 200 people who were paralyzed by polio are infected or are infected by the virus. In other words, 200 people are infected. For one to be paralyzed. It's just nonsensical.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: And we've entered this time where, look, we -- we don't recall. I didn't grow up in a time when children we're dying from polio or being paralyzed by polio, as you're describing, even though that was the reality for families for a long time until this vaccine came about.

And now you have this idea with -- with people that don't trust the science, don't believe it. What happens if you start not vaccinating children across the board?

OFFIT: Polio comes back. That case of polio in New York City, in Rockland County, rather, in 2022, was in an area where immunization rates were only 30 percent.

But so what's happened is not only have we largely eliminated polio from this country, we've eliminated the memory of polio.

But you can see people like Mitch McConnell pushed back because he had polio, or Donald Trump pushed back because he was born in 1946, 10 years before there was a polio vaccine. He remembers polio.

So do I. I was in a polio ward when I was five years of age. They touched a third rail, at least for older people, when they mentioned, like, let's step back on the polio vaccine.

DEAN: That's really -- it's really interesting.

I do want to play a quick clip. You mentioned what Donald Trump said about the polio vaccine. I think we have that. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: If somebody told me, get rid of the polio vaccine, they're going to have to work real hard to convince me.

I think vaccines are - certain vaccines are incredible. But maybe some aren't. And if they aren't, we have to find out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: It is interesting, to your point, to hear it's almost like a third rail, because he did live through that era, as you were saying you did as well. It is interesting to hear him say that.

But -- but this idea about some vaccines not being OK or people continuing to try to push what is so far been a discredited theory that they are linked to autism. What do you make of all of that?

OFFIT: It's perfectly reasonable to ask the question. My child was fine. They got a vaccine. Now they have regressed into autism. Could the vaccine have caused it? This question has been asked and answered over and over again.

We know that the measles, mumps, rubella vaccine doesn't cause autism. We know that too many vaccines given too soon doesn't cause autism. We know that the thimerosal, this ethyl mercury containing preservative in vaccines, doesn't cause autism.

Autism occurs in one of 36 children in this country. Look at the Covid vaccines. I mean, we found that the Covid vaccines were associated -- with the mRNA vaccines were associated with myocarditis in one in 50,000 people, or that the Johnson and Johnson vectored virus vaccine was associated with clotting in one in 250,000 people.

You can't say that there's an event that's occurring in one in 36 people that you're not picking up in these studies when they would easily be picked up.

It's been looked at, but apparently there are some people who just choose not to believe it. And Robert F. Kennedy Jr is one of them.

DEAN: All right. Dr. Paul Offit, thank you for that context. We really appreciate it.

Still ahead, Secretary of State Antony Blinken embarks on a new diplomatic push in the Middle East after the fall of the Assad regime in Syria. So can the U.S. work with the rebel group now in control?

[17:33:45]

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:38:26]

DEAN: Turning now to the latest out of Syria, where Secretary of State Antony Blinken confirming the U.S. has had direct contact with the rebel group that ousted Bashar Al-Assad last week. That group is now in control of the whole country.

HTS, as it's known, once affiliated with al Qaeda, has promised to moderate it's approach. But it remains designated a terrorist organization by the U.S.

Joining us now to discuss, CNN national security analyst, Peter Bergen, and David Sanger, CNN political and national security analyst and national security correspondent for "The New York Times." He's also the author of "New Cold Wars: Chinas Rise, Russia's Invasion, and America's Struggle to Defend the West.

It's good to have both of you here with us.

Peter, I want to start first with you.

The leader of the rebel group promised to moderate his approach. He gave an interview to one of my colleagues here at CNN. What -- which I thought was interesting to talk to a Western news organization.

What do you make of these assurances, given his past?

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, that interview, Jessica, you referred to, you know, he was at pains to say that the minorities in Syria, the Christians and the Alawites, would be their rights would be protected.

He said that he personally matured, that the guy he was in his 20s is not the guy he is today, age 42.

And, you know, the fact is, is he has been controlling a city in Syria called Idlib for several years. And they have moderated. They're not the al Qaeda that he joined back many years ago.

That said, you know, there is a $10 million reward on -- on his head by the State Department. And you know, it does remain to be seen.

[17:40:07]

But, so far, I mean, one thing that we should be looking for is Christmas is coming. Will Christians in Syria be allowed to perform the Christmas rites and show the Christmas decorations? Will they be able to do that unmolested?

Obviously, that would not have been the case if this was ISIS. So I think that's an indicator of, you know, what the future might hold that we should be looking for.

DEAN: Yes, that's -- that's smart to keep an eye out for that.

David, now we also have this news from Blinken that the U.S. has been in direct contact with HTS. What do you make of that?

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL & NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, what I make of that is that they want to go try to lay out, as specifically as they can, for HTS, the standards by which they expect them to govern.

And that is to say, some respect for human and religious rights, as Peter just said, no retribution, killings along the way, a free, open, transparent government, a move toward eventual elections. What we don't know is how far you're going to see this collection of

rebel groups take those principles, whether they'll be fighting internally. There's already been a little bit of signs of that, but better than we thought a week out.

You know, our experience with revolutions of this kind has not always been great. In Iraq, you remember the celebrations when Saddam was gone, and then what that turned into later on.

And in Libya, the celebrations when Moammar Gadhafi was deposed and ultimately killed. And to this day, Libya is a pretty ungovernable mess.

So the question is, can Syria be a different story?

DEAN: And, Peter, what does it take for Syria to be a different story? Is it possible?

BERGEN: Well, David raises a very good point. But let's look at Iraq. I mean, the United States made two enormous mistakes very quickly into the occupation.

One was to fire 30,000 members of the Baath Party who were keeping the country governed.

And two was to basically disband the Iraqi military, 500,000 guys with guns, all of whom had reasons to be angry.

Now in Syria, they've actually done something pretty smart right now, which is grant an amnesty to anybody in the military who was a conscript. So people involved in war crimes and that kind of thing that don't -- aren't part of the amnesty. But I think that's a smart move.

It seems that they're keeping also the bureaucracy in place. And so, so far, they are making the right moves.

But as David says, you know, the there was a huge wild card, which is the Kurds who control a good chunk of Syria. And, you know, they may easily get into a war with this sort of HTS who's running the place right now. A lot of things can go wrong.

DEAN: And, David, now we have the Trump administration coming in. President-Elect Trump will be in office in less than 40 days now. What do you think that means both for the troops that we currently have there in Syria, will they - -will they stay there?

And also just our posture, the country's posture toward these rebels and how they're setting up their government?

SANGER: Well, on the first question, President Trump in his first term was tempted to pull the -- that small group of Americans out.

Ultimately, he was persuaded to keep them in and was persuaded on the basis that there's some oil, although not much in that part of Syria. And, you know, he filled this in with his sort of "take the oil" mantras.

I think the bigger question is the one that you just raised, Jessica, about what involvement he will have in dealing with helping to shape a new government.

He sent out a Truth Social message last weekend saying we should stay out of this. But of course, the United States has huge interests in the Syria that emerges.

Do the Russians get pushed out of their naval base and their air base? They look today like they we're already packing up their -- their air base, but getting them out and keeping them out would be a significant American interest.

Is Syria, at the at the end of the day, no longer a funnel for Iranian arms to make it through to Hezbollah and Hamas? And so sealing that up is going to be a huge American interest.

So it will be very interesting to see as an early test of how he's defining America First.

DEAN: Yes, yes, no doubt about it.

All right. David Sanger, Peter Bergen, always great to have you both. Thank you very much.

SANGER: Thank you.

[17:45:01]

DEAN: And still ahead, President-Elect Trump just made a new promise. And it might be his most popular yet. He says he wants to get rid of Daylight Saving Time. We're going to run the numbers on whether springing forward or falling back actually makes sense.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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DEAN: President-Elect Trump is making a new promise as he gets ready to enter the White House again, getting rid of Daylight Saving Time.

[17:50:01]

Trump has called the time change both inconvenient and costly. And the two men he's tapped to lead a government efficiency panel, Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy, have called it inefficient and annoying.

Joining us now to run the numbers, CNN senior data reporter, Harry Enten. There he is.

Harry, it seems like a lot of Americans say they wouldn't mind if Daylight Saving Time went away.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: No, and I hope no one calls me annoying behind my back, but I know there are a few detractors. (CROSSTALK)

ENTEN: I know you would never. But maybe, Peter. the substitute E.P., might.

Either way, let's take a look here. Stop changing the clocks twice a year? Look at this. The vast majority of Americans favor ,Jessica. They favor it. Look at this 64 percent. We're talking nearly two- thirds of Americans.

You can -- you can't get two-thirds of Americans to agree basically on anything. But they agree that they find changing the clocks twice a year to be annoying. Compared to this, just a third opposed.

So the bottom line is, most Americans really would like to stop changing the clock twice a year -- Jessica?

DEAN: And with a lot of Americans in favor of changing it, like, is there any major reason it wouldn't pass?

ENTEN: I think there's one big reason why it might not pass. Because -- get this -- how should we keep time year round?

All right, as we mentioned, just about a third of the country favors the current system. But which way do you go? Do you have all Daylight Saving Time? That, of course, would be later sunrises and sunsets. You only get about 38 percent. Now that is the plurality here. That is the plurality at 38 percent.

But then you get this significant minority right here who would keep all standard time. That's 26 percent. Of course, that means earlier sunrises and earlier sunsets. That's the system right now we're on at this point in the year.

So, yes, people can agree that maybe we don't like the current system, but where do we go? That's where of course we have massive disagreement.

DEAN: That's where it gets tricky.

Have we ever tried to end this before? I don't know the answer to this question.

ENTEN: Yes, yes, we have. If you go back into the time machine. All right. This is before either of our times, right? If we go back, if you try this after trying all your Daylight Saving Time in 1974, how did folks feel?

Only 41 percent favored it, compared to 53 percent who opposed it because the sun would rise after 9 a.m. in places like Detroit in the winter. So there were kids going to school in the dark, and parents really, really didn't like it.

DEAN: Yes, I don't think I'd like that either.

There's also data showing there are more car accidents around time changes, and that changing clocks throws us off, workers are less productive. But what's the benefit?

ENTEN: Yes. What might be the benefit? I'm not really quite sure exactly what the benefit is, except perhaps, if you like later sunrises, right, or later sunrises and like the sun to set later.

And, you know, I'll just note this, right? But here's the whole thing on that, OK? You like sunrises pre 7:30 a.m. and sunsets post 5:30 p.m. All right. If you want it to maximize that, right, which is the earlier sunrises and the later sunsets.

Which system would work best for that if you had all Daylight Saving Time that would only happen in the national average. About 60 percent of the year, the current system would be 69 percent of the year.

But if you had all standard time, which really doesn't seem to be spoken about all that much, if you had all standard time all year round, Jessica, you would get that 72 percent of the time.

So if I were choosing, I'd probably either choose the current system or I'd choose all standard time.

Yet, it seems to me everyone wants to go to all Daylight Saving Time, which, to me, when we look at math, doesn't make a whole heck of a lot of sense, and unless you like the idea of kids going to school in the dark in places like Detroit.

DEAN: Yes, I don't think -- I think we're both on the record. We don't like it.

ENTEN: No.

DEAN: We don't like that idea. So we've established a lot of Americans don't like it. They'd be fine to get rid of it.

This makes me think about that episode. Well, it was like a story arc on "Veep," when it was when -- remember when they we're trying to get rid of this? But is this a pressing issue for a lot of people?

ENTEN: You know, this is what I love about this. All right. I have done podcasts on this. I have written articles on this. I have done so many television segments on this. I think this is why Peter, the sub E.P., this week wanted me to do it, because I've done it about a thousand times.

I love this topic because, to be honest with you, the stakes are so low for the most part. And so there's a great poll question: Is changing the clocks a major disruption?

Only 13 percent of Americans say yes, it's a major disruption, 28 percent say yes. it's a minor, but the clear majority, 55 percent, say no. Most Americans really don't care.

But it's a great little thing to sort of talk about because the bottom line is, is in an era in which there's so much polarization, this is a topic that kind of breaks through.

We can all have an opinion on this, but I don't think any of us really hold it that strongly -- Jessica?

DEAN: Yes. And everybody can, you know, maybe find something to complain about.

ENTEN: There you go. I love complaining, I'm a New York Jew. Come on.

(LAUGHTER)

DEAN: I am being told to ask you one very pressing question to end the segment here, which is, do you have a pick for tomorrow's Bills-Lions game? I know the answer to this.

ENTEN: Of course you know the answer to that. Josh Allen, the Buffalo Bills are going to walk all over the Detroit Lions.

I know the Lions have only lost a game. But the bottom line is Josh Allen's one of a kind. They're going to beat the Lions tomorrow. And the Bills are going all the way.

DEAN: OK, you heard it here first.

[17:55:01]

Harry Enten, good to see you. Thanks so much.

ENTEN: Good to see you.

DEAN: This holiday season, your generosity can go twice as far. Dollar-for-dollar matching is in effect when you donate to the top- five CNN Heroes.

And Anderson Cooper has more on that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR & HOST, "CNN HEROS": I'm Anderson Cooper. Each of this year's top-five CNN Heroes proves that one person really can make a difference.

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No matter the amount, you can make a big difference in helping our heroes continue their life changing work.

And right now, through January 5th, your donations will be matched by the Elevate Prize Foundation (ph) dollar-for-dollar up to a total of $50,000 for each of this year's honorees.

CNN is proud to offer you the simple way to support each cause and celebrate all these everyday people changing the world.

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