Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Apple A.I. Under Fire Over False News Headlines; Amazon Drivers on Strike; Chaos on Capitol Hill. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired December 20, 2024 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:34:02]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: The clock is ticking. We are now barely 12 hours from a government shutdown. That's if lawmakers can't make a spending deal by midnight.

House Speaker Mike Johnson says he expects another vote soon. And we have learned that Republicans could drop suspension, the suspension of the debt limit, despite Donald Trump's demands. Everything is very fluid on Capitol Hill right now.

But the president-elect is in no hurry for a spending bill to pass, it seems, based on his latest post. He is urging Congress or saying, hey, if the government shutdown happens, let's let it happen on President Biden's watch, not my watch.

So if you live in a state hit by disasters, like with hurricanes, wildfires, flooding, the stalemate in Washington has become a crisis of its own. It really matters to so many Americans. Roughly $100 billion in aid hangs in the balance, funds that would have gone to every single state in the nation, the biggest recipients, more than $10 billion for Florida and nearly $9 billion for North Carolina still reeling from that brutal hurricane season.

[11:35:05]

Katie Button knows how critical that money is. She's on North Carolina's advisory committee to rebuild Western North Carolina. She's also an award-winning chef who owns two restaurants in Asheville. One is still closed after Hurricane Helene.

So, Katie, what are you thinking as you watch this chaos ensue over the spending bill in Washington with just hours to go for a government shutdown?

KATIE BUTTON, NORTH CAROLINA BUSINESS OWNER: It is incredibly frustrating and disheartening.

The entire community of Western North Carolina and the state of North Carolina is watching this with our -- biting our nails while we're watching it, because we desperately need this disaster relief bill to go through.

Basically, we're hanging on by a thread, and it feels kind of ridiculous to feel like you're caught up in the crossfire of some kind of political showdown, when what we really need is for our elected officials and our president-elect, using his influence, to come together, put their party designation aside, and get this money passed.

BROWN: You say you're hanging on by a thread, the folks there in Western North Carolina.

Talk to me about what that money would do for the state and for your town. We're looking at pictures right now that you sent to us of the damage in your area.

BUTTON: I mean, it was to provide support for Western North Carolina in many different ways, but one that is particularly kind of important for me is aid for small businesses.

Asheville is a community of passionate small businesses, whether it's restaurants, artists, breweries, you name it. And we have faced catastrophic economic damage through closures due to the storm and then also just decreased tourism, because people don't want to travel to an area recently hit by a hurricane.

So, we are hanging on by a thread. Most people I speak to are having their insurance claims denied. They don't have any funding. And they're depending on this disaster relief bill to provide them some support, so that they don't have to permanently close.

And it isn't just -- the impact isn't just on our businesses. If you think about what happens when a restaurant permanently closes, restaurants are economic cornerstones of their community because we employ so many people. So, every dollar that comes through our doors goes right back out to our work force, the people who live in Western North Carolina, but also to our farmers and suppliers.

And if we fail, the whole region fails. And we just cannot risk that.

BROWN: Yes. And you know that because you own two restaurants there.

North Carolina Senator Ted Budd says, look, no one should leave Washington until this deal is done. What is your message to members of Congress who say they're OK with not letting a spending bill pass and to just allow the government to shut down?

BUTTON: I would say that they were elected to support and look after the American people, and by making that decision, they are not working for our benefit.

I mean, there are real people, workers in our area, businesses that are at risk if this does not get passed.

BROWN: And I also want to note, it's wintertime, right? And the temperatures are getting colder. There are people that are in yurts right now in Western North Carolina. They don't even have -- I mean, in some cases, they have denied assistance to stay at hotels and so forth. But, I mean, there are parts that are still in dire situations, right?

BUTTON: I mean, absolutely. The physical destruction is still there.

And this funding, disaster relief money, isn't just for businesses. I mean, a large part of it is to repair the damage that was done, return people to their homes, get them back working, just restart the entire life of the community.

And we're really depending on this to go through to make it.

BROWN: Anything else you want to say?

BUTTON: Just that the other thing I would say is, Asheville is ready.

But, simultaneously, we are also, like, open and ready for visitors. We need people to come see us. Downtown is -- restaurants are open. Come shopping. And visit. Plan a vacation. That's another way that you can support our area.

BROWN: All right, Katie Button, thank you so much.

BUTTON: Thank you.

BROWN: And still to come: a union protest involving Amazon drivers now spreading, as Christmas and Hanukkah get closer. What could it mean for those last-minute gifts?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:43:58]

BROWN: Well, this morning, a Teamster strike involving Amazon drivers is in day two, and protests have spread to nearly 200 locations.

The drivers say they want Amazon to recognize them and their hard work under sometimes tough conditions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMANTHA THOMAS, AMAZON DRIVER: We are the face of Amazon. We wear the uniform. We drive the trucks. When we pull up to your house, you say, oh, that's Amazon, not that's Samantha or that's this. We're Amazon. We should be recognized as such.

JOSH BLACK, AMAZON WAREHOUSE ASSOCIATE: We live in one of the most expensive cities in the country. We want to be able to afford to live here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich joins us now.

So, Vanessa, what will this strike mean for holiday gift deliveries?

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS REPORTER: Amazon is saying that it will have no impact.

But the Teamsters, who represent these drivers and warehouse workers who work for Amazon, are hoping it does make an impact. But, as you mentioned, this strike was authorized at seven locations across the country. Now support protests have spread across the country, members of different unions, and with the Teamsters supporting those Amazon workers at nearly 200 Amazon locations.

[11:45:04]

But, at the heart of this, these union members say that they are demanding better pay and demanding better working conditions, the Teamsters asking for Amazon to come to the negotiating table. But, ultimately, Amazon is saying that we don't recognize these folks as union members.

Listen to a little bit of the conversation I had with a national spokesperson from Amazon last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YURKEVICH: Will this impact shipping and deliveries for average Americans right now?

KELLY NANTEL, AMAZON SPOKESWOMAN: We're not expecting any delays to customer orders.

YURKEVICH: Do you consider this strike illegal?

NANTEL: There is no strike. This is a protest that has been facilitated by the Teamsters. There are no Amazon employees and no third-party drivers who pay dues to the Teamsters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YURKEVICH: And the reason that Amazon does not recognize these workers that are on strike as union members is because the National Labor Relations Board does not consider them union members themselves.

Ultimately, Amazon has said that they have invested millions of dollars in their third-party driver program, which would bring wages for these drivers up to $22 an hour. But, for many of them, that's not enough for the work that they say that they do, long hours, tough conditions, and some of them say the pressure from the company Pam to do it even faster.

BROWN: And Amazon, we should note, is not the only company facing a strike, right? This morning, Starbucks workers across three states have walked up the job. Tell us about that.

YURKEVICH: Yes, Starbucks workers in Chicago and Seattle and Los Angeles are on strike this morning. We're hearing from a source that the impact to Starbucks stores has been minimal.

About 10 stores did not open as planned this morning out of about 10,000 stores. But, ultimately, these are legitimate union workers. And Starbucks has been negotiating with them since February. But the union says that they wanted a deal by the end of the year.

And here we are, almost at the end of the year with a contract and a deal that the union says is just not good enough. Starbucks says that they're disappointed. They thought that they were making progress and they wanted to get back to the negotiating table, but, ultimately, talks broke off last week.

And, of course, Pam this really does come down to the things that all these strikes come down to, wages and benefits, better wages for these workers.

I will note, Pam, that these strikes are intentional at this time of year. This is a very profitable time, Pam, for both Amazon and Starbucks. So, even though the company is saying that this is not going to make a huge impact, just the perception that these strikes are happening around the holidays is raising awareness, awareness that these workers want the American public to know about, Pam.

BROWN: Yes, that's an important point. Good context there, Vanessa. Thank you so much.

Coming up: Apple under pressure to axe its new A.I. tool for news after it pushed out a false headline from the BBC.

We're going to have a live report on that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:53:00]

BROWN: Artificial intelligence slammed for being acutely inaccurate.

Apple is catching heat after one of its new A.I. tools falsely summarized news reports. There was this push notification, and it told users last week that Luigi Mangione, the alleged CEO killer, had shot himself. Of course, that's not true.

And now a press freedom group called Reporters Without Borders is urging Apple to remove the A.I. feature.

CNN's Hadas Gold joins us now.

So, Hadas, A.I. clearly doesn't always get it right, and this is an extreme example of that.

HADAS GOLD, CNN MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes, A.I. is really cool. It's new. It can do some amazing things.

But this is a perfect example of how A.I. is still quite unreliable. But what's most concerning about what happened with these push alerts is that they made it seem as though they were coming almost directly from the news organization, in the Luigi Mangione story case, that it was actually coming from the BBC.

But there's actually another case that we have seen of this related to a story from "The New York Times." So I want to put up on the screen what these push alerts say. The first one that you will see there is about the BBC story, where it says "Luigi Mangione shoots himself." And then the next one was "Netanyahu arrested," referring to the prime minister of Israel.

Now, it seems in both of these cases that the A.I. was confusing or potentially sort of mixing stories together, because, in the Netanyahu case -- this was pointed out last month by a ProPublica reporter -- there had been an arrest warrant issued from -- warrant from the International Criminal Court, but he himself had not been arrested.

But, again, if you were looking at this on your phone, and your phone has this new Apple Intelligence feature, it had the BBC logo, and it says BBC News, and then that headline along with a few other headlines.

But the publishers, they have no control over what appeared on users' screens. This was all done by Apple Intelligence, Apple's A.I. Now, the BBC say that they have complained to Apple, and they have asked Apple to fix this. Apple so far has declined to comment.

But the problem here is not just that people were getting fake news and that they were worried -- it looked as though it was coming from a trusted publisher themselves. But what if this had been a situation where the incorrect headline was something about safety, something about an active shooter or anything like that?

[11:55:12]

And people may take action based off of that? And that's why you now have groups like Reporters Without Borders, who are saying that Apple needs to completely scrap this. They say, in part, that it's a blow to Apple's credibility. They're calling it a danger to the public's right to reliable information on current affairs.

But it's just still a warning that, if you do have something like A.I. on your phone or you're using something around A.I., it is still an unreliable tool, very cool, but still quite unreliable.

BROWN: Really, really important information there. Hadas Gold, thank you so much.

And thank you all for joining me. I'm Pamela Brown. You can follow me on Instagram, TikTok, and X @PamelaBrownCNN.

Be sure to stay with us. "INSIDE POLITICS WITH DANA BASH" starts after a short break.

Happy holidays, everyone.