Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Ukraine Not Included In Russia-U.S. Talks; European Leaders To Hold Emergency Summit On Ukraine; Netanyahu Promises To Finish The Job In Iran; Rep. Adam Smith (D-WA) Is Interviewed On The U.S.-Russia Talks, European Leaders Emergency Summit, DOGE, And Government Funding Deadline; U.S. Winter Storm Leaves Nine Dead; Trump Administration Seek Supreme Court Help; Trump's Push To Tighten Federal Government Happening At Breakneck Speed; Tensions Boil Over As Canada Hosts U.S. In Hockey. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired February 16, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAULA REID, CNN HOST: You are in the "CNN Newsroom." Jessica Dean has the day off. I'm Paula Reid in Washington. And we begin this hour with new questions surrounding President Trump's plan to end the conflict in Ukraine.

Tonight, a Ukrainian official tells CNN his country was, quote, "not informed" about negotiations set to take place in the coming days between the U.S. and Russia in Saudi Arabia. But Trump officials are pushing back on any claim Ukraine is being left out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE WITKOFF, U.S. SPECIAL ENVOY TO MIDDLE EAST: I am pretty sure that, you know, a lot of our cabinet people, including Treasury Secretary Bessent, the Vice President, Mike Waltz, John Radcliffe, our Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, have been meeting with various Ukrainian people at the Munich Security Conference. So I don't think this is about excluding anybody. In fact, it's about including everybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: And just moments ago, President Trump told reporters, Ukraine's president will be involved in talks with the U.S. and Russia. It's unclear exactly what that involvement means. Meantime, European leaders are scrambling to have a say in the future of Ukraine after the Trump administration announced Europe would not be included in those peace talks.

The leaders of NATO, the European Union and more than half a dozen European nations will be holding an emergency summit tomorrow. The prime minister of the U.K. calling it, quote, "a once in a generation moment for national security" and saying, quote, "we cannot allow any divisions in the alliance to distract from the external enemies we face." CNN senior international correspondent Fred Pleitgen joins us live from Moscow with more on how the Kremlin is reacting to all of this. Fred, what are you hearing?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Kremlin continues, Paula, to be very optimistic about the way things are going with the Trump administration. I think there's two things that the Kremlin is eyeing right now. On the one hand, it is, of course, that possible deal to end the war in Ukraine on terms favorable for the Russians. But I think the Russians also looking for a lot more than that. For instance, better relations in general with the United States and possible sanctions relief as well.

It's been quite interesting throughout the course of the day and really throughout the course of the weekend, the Russians showing some of that optimism in the form of the Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov. He came out today and said he believes that with President Trump now in office, that the U.S. and Russia would be entering into an age of dialogue, that they would be talking about peace rather than be talking about war. And he also believed that everyone who is of sane mind, as he put it, would see things the way that President Trump does as far as Russia is concerned.

So the Russians definitely, if you will, at least diplomatically rolling out the red carpet for the ideas that President Trump has had to end the war in Ukraine. Of course, all of that eyeing, those talks that are set to take place in Saudi Arabia between top level U.S. and Russian officials. The Russians have said that they are putting a delegation for that together. It's unclear who exactly is going to be on that delegation. Of course, we know from the US that it is definitely going to be top level administration officials.

And there the Russians, for them the key things right now are they want to get that face-to-face meeting between President Trump and Russian President Putin going as fast as possible to show that Russia is back on the international stage, that Russia is talking directly to the United States. And then one of the things that they said, and this was yesterday also from a phone call between the Russian Foreign Minister and Secretary of State Marco Rubio, where the Russians have said that both sides talked about not only ending the war in Ukraine, but then possibly once again expanding economic relations and talking about sanctions relief as well, Paula.

REID: And Fred, on this emergency summit that's set to take place tomorrow, how does the Kremlin view this push from European leaders to try to unify even without the support of the U.S.?

PLEITGEN: Well, I think as far as the official messaging that we're seeing here in Moscow, from political Moscow if you will, they believe, or they're telegraphing if you will, that they think that the Europeans essentially are being sidelined in all of that. Where on the one hand, you have the Europeans speaking with Volodymyr Zelenskyy at the Munich Security Conference, whereas the U.S. is speaking directly to the Trump administration.

They believe that that's where the momentum lies at the moment and that's where essentially is going to lie to end the war in Ukraine. Again, the Russians looking for terms that would be favorable for themselves. The Russians, of course, want to keep the territory that they've occupied so far on the Ukrainian side of the border.

[17:04:57]

They also say with that one pocket that the Ukrainians still control on the Russian side of the border, in the Kursk region, they want to oust the Ukrainians from that. They don't want that to be part of the negotiations.

But speaking to Russian officials this past week, and I managed, for instance, to ask The Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov about all this and he almost indicated that he believed on the part of the Europeans, that there was almost panic at this point in time now that President Trump and the Russian president are speaking directly to one another, Paula.

REID: Fred Pleitgen, thank you. And Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is vowing to quote "finish the job" against Iran with the support of President Trump. His comments came during a news conference with Secretary of State Marco Rubio in Jerusalem. Rubio linking Iran to the major threats in the Middle East, blaming Tehran for the troubles with Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria and Iraq. The Secretary of State warned there must never be a nuclear Iran. CNN's Nic Robertson has more from Jerusalem.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Paula, that joint press conference with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Secretary of State Marco Rubio, very clear the two countries in lockstep, and on Iran, absolutely joined up in their thinking. The Prime Minister of Israel saying very clearly the Ayatollahs cannot be allowed to get a nuclear weapon. Marco Rubio doubling down on that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: The common theme in all of these challenges is Iran. It is the single greatest source of instability in the region. Behind every terrorist group, behind every act of violence, behind every destabilizing activity, behind everything that threatens peace and stability for the millions of people who call this region home, is Iran. And by Iran, I mean the Ayatollahs, by Iran I mean its regime. A regime who, by the way, its people don't support. The people of Iran are victims of that regime.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: They also spoke about Syria, about Lebanon, that neither of those two countries will be allowed to have a footing or a place for forces that would target Israel's security. And on Hamas and Gaza, Prime Minister Netanyahu is saying the United States, Israel in lockstep and that Hamas could be no more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL: I want to assure everyone who's now listening to us, President Trump and I are working in full cooperation and coordination between us. We have a common strategy, and we can't always share the details of this strategy with the public, including when the gates of hell will be opened, as they surely will if all our hostages are not released, until the last one of them.

Israel is determined to achieve all the war objectives we set after the horrific attack on October 7th, the worst attack on Jews since the Holocaust. We will eliminate Hamas's military capability and its political rule in Gaza. We will bring all our hostages home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: And on that key issue in what happens next in Gaza, Prime Minister Netanyahu sending his envoys to Egypt to continue negotiations about phase one, the first six weeks of the hostage ceasefire deal. On Monday, his meeting with his security cabinet where he says they will decide their next moves on the all-important, a much tougher phase two that could lead to an end in the war. After that security cabinet meeting, he said he would give his negotiating team instructions about phase two. Paula?

REID: Nic Robertson, thank you. Joining me now, Democratic Congressman Adam Smith of Washington. He's also a ranking member on the House Armed Services Committee. Congressman first, I want to get your reaction to Ukraine claiming they were not informed about Trump officials meeting with senior Russian officials in Saudi Arabia in the coming days. What is your reaction?

REP. ADAM SMITH (D-WA): Well, the most alarming thing by what -- about what Trump and his administration has been saying, they have not talked about the need to make sure that Ukraine has security guarantees. I mean, they've talked about the compromise, they're talking with the Russians. But look, Putin won't stop if he thinks Ukraine is defenseless. We need to make it clear and our European allies do as well that security guarantees for Ukraine are a cornerstone of any negotiations.

So that's the biggest thing I'm worried about, that he's talking with the Russians is fine. He certainly shouldn't sideline the Ukrainians. It's worth being worried about that. But Secretary Hegseth, Secretary Rubio, Mike Waltz, Donald Trump, I haven't heard a single one of them say Ukraine needs to be strong enough to defend itself. And we, the U.S. and our partners are going to continue to be committed to that even as we try to stop the war, which needs to be done. There needs to be a negotiated settlement, but you're not going to get a negotiated settlement by simply showing weakness to Putin.

[17:10:00]

REID: And as you know, European leaders plan to hold an emergency summit after Trump's special envoy to Russia and Ukraine, General Keith Kellogg, announced that Europe will not be part of these talks. Do you think that's a mistake?

SMITH: Well, I think it's a mistake if you're not consulting them. Look, you can't have -- I mean, we have a 53 nation coalition that's been helping Ukraine defend itself. I don't imagine a scenario where all 53 nations are represented sitting around the table as Ukraine and Russia and the U.S. try to work it out. But if you're completely ignoring that coalition, that's a huge problem. And that's certainly the signal the President Trump, Vice President Vance as well have sent.

They've been brushing off the Europeans and pushing them away in a way that undermines our alliance, undermines our strength, and again shows weakness to Vladimir Putin. So completely shoving the Europeans to the side, I think, is a huge mistake, even as we attempt to negotiate it into this war.

REID: And as you know, there are fears. Russia's part in these negotiations will not be in good faith. This week, the Vice President, J.D. Vance, told the "Wall Street Journal" that there are ways for the U.S. to keep Russia honest, saying, quote, "there are economic tools of leverage. There are, of course, military tools of leverage." Do you agree?

SMITH: Well, I think there are tools of leverage that we can use. What I'm worried about, as I said at the outset, is we don't seem to be using them right now. I've heard some talk from President Trump about sanctions on Russia. No talk about making sure that Ukraine continues to be armed so that they can defend themselves. So, yeah, there's tools of leverage.

I think you also need to be mindful of the fact that you can't trust anything that Putin says. I mean, we'll go back to Ronald Reagan, right? Trust but verify. And the way you verify is you put Ukraine in a strong enough position to defend itself so that Putin can't lie and take advantage of some of the mistakes that Trump has made in the way he has articulated this. So that's the big concern.

Are we going to keep supporting Ukraine? The White House still has a lot of money at its disposal that we passed in Congress to help Ukraine defend itself. He needs to make it clear that we're going to give Ukraine that support.

REID: I want to turn to some of the questions here at home. Elon Musk and DOGE are, of course, uprooting and trying to overhaul a large swath of the federal government. The Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, says he welcomes Musk to come to the Pentagon very soon to, quote, "find billions of dollars to save." As a ranking member of the Armed Services Committee, have you received any information about what DOGE could be planning to do at the Pentagon?

SMITH: No, I mean, I met with one of the lower level officials with DOGE to talk through some of this. But as you know, I mean, Musk and Trump, they're not telling anyone what they're doing. They're showing up and they're firing people randomly all across the board in a wide variety of agencies. And it seems at the moment to be more about asserting the power of Elon Musk and Donald Trump than it is about any sort of government efficiency or effectiveness.

I mean, you're not making USAID more efficient and more effective by shutting it down and firing everybody. You're not making the Consumer Financial Protection Board more effective by completely shutting it down. And oh, by the way, taking away regulations from a lot of things that Elon Musk and a lot of his oligarchical buddies are worried about.

So there doesn't seem to be a focus of DOGE on efficiency or effectiveness. The focus seems to be on power. Look, you could make the Pentagon a lot more efficient and effective. The reason I reached out to them, and I've reached out and asked to meet with Elon Musk, I've been rebuffed. I think there's a lot of things we could do to make the Pentagon work better.

But if you're going in there and you're just firing people and you're doing it to make sure that you've got loyalists, people who will do whatever Trump must ask them, that's not efficiency and effectiveness. That's just a raw exercise of power that isn't going to make our country any stronger or more efficient or more effective.

REID: All right. Now, before I let you go, I have to ask you about the government funding deadline that's coming up in less than a month. How are you planning to work with Republicans to ensure there is no government shutdown or will this all be up to the GOP to avoid a shutdown.

SMITH: Yeah, I mean, there's two steps here. There's that, and then there's the reconciliation package, both of which are increasingly connected. And look, the appropriations process is simple. We should set top lines and pass appropriations bills. That's what we want to do. That's what we Democrats have been urging Republicans to do for a while.

If the Republicans just want to do a continuing resolution throughout the rest of the year, which guts government, does great damage to the Department of Defense by the way since it's over half of the discretionary budget, and now they don't have a budget, they can't plan. That's not a good plan.

Look, we want to keep the government open and funded so put a plan on the table. Meanwhile, the reconciliation process that would basically cut taxes by $4 trillion to $7 trillion massively drive up the debt while gutting needed services for the American people.

[17:15:03]

We're not for that, okay. Before funding the government, before raising the debt ceiling, but they're doing it in a way that is going to raise the debt, cut taxes for the wealthiest amongst us, and take away vital programs to people.

So we're not going to be for that. They want to negotiate and get us a sensible budget, all for it, and I know the appropriators right now are still engaged in those discussions about the March 14th deadline, but those are the basic principles that we Democrats are going to stand up for.

REID: All right, Congressman Adam Smith, thank you for your time.

SMITH: Thanks for the chance.

REID: And a powerful and deadly storm is slamming millions of people with life-threatening floods, toppling trees, covering roads, and forcing evacuations in a handful of states.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:20:00]

REID: New developments this evening after a powerful storm battered the eastern half of the U.S., killing at least nine people. Eight of those deaths were in Kentucky, where search and rescue teams are now combing the flooded areas. More than 10 million people remain under flood alerts from Mississippi to Ohio. Kentucky's Governor Andy Beshear spoke to CNN earlier about the impact of the massive storm.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDY BESHEAR, GOVERNOR OF KENTUCKY: We know that we've lost eight. We believe that number will at least climb to nine. We've experienced significant flash flooding all across our state and are now having significant river bank flooding. So for us, we are in an emergency search and rescue mode. We will be throughout the rest of today and probably through at least tomorrow. But thankfully, our first responders, our National Guard, our Kentucky State Police have now rescued more than 1,000 people and they're out there doing a great job. We're grateful for them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: And we just got this video in from Fredericksburg, Indiana. Intense flooding and snowy weather. Now, CNN's Danny Freeman joins us now from Virginia, which was hit with heavy rain and flooding, prompting evacuations in some areas. Danny, I can clearly see that water moving behind you. What is it like on the ground?

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Paula, and it's interesting, you noted the damage in Indiana and Kentucky as well. It just goes to show how massive this storm system was because we're here in Virginia, in Salem, Virginia. It's just outside of Roanoke. And this is the Roanoke River, as you noted. You can see very much above where it should be right here in this park. There's debris everywhere. It's coming up to parts of these trees and the river's still flowing mightily here.

Now, the good news, at least in this particular part of Virginia in Salem, is that city officials said the river here crested overnight and has been coming down steadily. But frankly, Paula, other cities in this area have not been so lucky. Of course, you noted the extensive damage in Kentucky. We also just learned in the past hour and a half or so that Virginia Governor Glenn Youngkin submitted a request for an expedited major disaster declaration.

As part of this request, the governor of Virginia noted that just today they've had 150 swift water rescues, and also two towns to the west of here, they've had catastrophic and historic flooding. So it just goes to show you just how intense the damage has been here today. And just I'll run over some of those numbers that you just heard the governor of Kentucky note as well. Eight people at this point presumed to have been killed in the flooding, potentially that number will rise in Kentucky.

The rescues there have been over a thousand, just you can tell how many first responders have been working all through the night. And the other thing that I'll note, Paula, is something that you mentioned as well, it's cold out here still. As we were driving down to get to this spot today, we drove through West Virginia, it was snowing for much of the drive. It was raining as well at times.

This entire system has been challenging for these communities, not just because the floodwaters have risen as quickly as they have, but also because that cold is just biting out here. So, officials from all parts of this area still encouraging people to stay off the roads if you can, just because you do not want to be driving through some of this water. Though at least the good news for now, at least some of these parts of Virginia is that the water levels are starting to go down. Paula?

REID: Danny Freeman, thank you. And the Trump White House has seen lawsuit after lawsuit challenging the president's opening flurry of action. And now he wants the Supreme Court to take on one of the challenges in what will be an early test of how the high court will handle the president.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

REID: Tonight, President Trump wants the Supreme Court to let him fire the head of a watchdog agency protecting whistleblowers. It's his first appeal to the high court as president this term. Of course, many more will likely follow as he continues to test the judiciary's ability to check his authority. CNN legal analyst Carrie Cordero joins me now. All right, Carrie, a lot of excitement among legal nerds like us that this is the first time in the second Trump administration, he's headed to the Supreme Court. But some folks aren't even sure they're going to take this up. What is your take on this case and this question?

CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think -- hi, Paula -- I think in this particular case, it certainly would be reasonable for the Supreme Court. And I think what they probably will do is just let the lower courts have this play out. There's really no reason for the Supreme Court to take it up at this time because the lower courts, as you know, haven't ruled on the merits of this case. They just have paused the decision while they have more hearings and more briefings.

And so there's lots of time for the Supreme Court to weigh in later substantively, but at this point, I'm inclined to think they're gonna let the lower courts have their process be carried out.

REID: I tend to agree with you. So I would love a trip to the Supreme Court at any juncture.

[17:29:55]

But as you've also heard, a number of Biden appointed U.S. attorneys across the country have had their government-issued phones and e-mail accounts deactivated. Now, of course, it is pretty much custom that U.S. attorneys, once a new president comes in, they are usually asked to step down. But do you have any concerns about this deactivating of electronic devices for these top prosecutors at this point?

CORDERO: Well, once -- I mean, the question is, for each individual, had they left office and are or are they still in their current positions? It's not unusual for a new president to come in and to remove U.S. attorneys, the politically-appointed heads of each U.S. attorney's office, same with the assistant attorney generals, who are in charge of each major component of the department.

You know, usually there's a normal course in which this takes place. A person leaves their office, they are no longer there, they're no longer fulfilling their duties in any way, and they leave government service, and at that point, there's no reason why they would need their government-issued devices.

So, I think for each individual, it just depends whether or not they're in their positions or whether so much of what has happened in the removal of certain officials within the department, some of whom were even career officials and not political appointees, is that they are just abruptly removed from their position, cut off from information on things that they were working on. And so, there's just a lot -- there's a breath to which these actions are taking place against individuals all across the Department of Justice.

REID: I want to pivot to what's been going on up in Manhattan, this deal to drop the case against Mayor Eric Adams so that he can, in the words of the Trump Justice Department, focus on immigration, while the directive to drop the case specifically says it's not a quid pro quo. There's been a lot of questions about whether it is.

So, earlier today, our colleague, Dana Bash, she had the opportunity to ask the White House border czar, Tom Homan, about whether this really is a quid pro quo. Let's take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM HOMAN, BORDER CZAR: No, I think that's ridiculous. Me and Mayor Adams met a couple months ago. I think it was probably eight, nine weeks ago we met. We had the same discussion. I really don't think it had anything to do with whatever is going on in the Justice Department. We never talked about that. It's kind of out of my lane. I've been talking to the mayor for months about getting in records on him. That's what we talked about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: What do you make of his comments there?

CORDERO: You know, it's hard to say until we really find out what went on behind the scenes between individuals at the White House, like Mr. Homan and the Justice Department, if any, in terms of communications about the removal, the dismissal of this particular case.

The letter from the acting deputy attorney general appears to look that there was a politically-motivated reason, that is cooperation from Mayor Adams, that was the reason for the dismissal. It doesn't seem like the Justice Department senior leadership has made arguments that there wasn't a substantive merit to the case.

And so, you know, we don't know, I think, yet enough about what went on behind the scenes. Obviously, all of the prosecutors, who were substantively involved in this case, believe and have put in writing and have staked their careers on the fact that the dismissal of this case was politically-motivated.

And with respect to the argument that a person in a political position is needed to carry out policy, that is simply, as you know, Paula, just not an appropriate justification for not bringing a case. We can just look in another context to the prosecution of Senator Menendez, who was in a very powerful position in the Congress in Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

Nobody made the argument that, well, we need him in that particular job to do politics and, therefore, he's not going to be prosecuted. So, there are public corruption cases from time to time and that individual's role in their political position shouldn't be a factor when the department is making prosecutorial or dismissal decisions.

REID: That's definitely a story we will continue to watch. Carrie Cordero, thank you.

CORDERO: Thanks, Paula.

REID: And beyond the legality of Trump's government cuts, there are still questions from both sides of the aisle about whether they're too fast or too deep. This as Democrats take stock of the tools they have for confronting Trump and whether they need some new ones.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

REID: President Trump is facing new backlash today for suggesting that he can't be accused of breaking the law if he's working to save the country. Hours after posting that message, Trump's former vice president, Mike Pence, shared a link to an article he wrote in 2010 about the importance of adhering to the Constitution.

Democratic Senator Adam Schiff said -- quote -- "spoken like a true dictator." And Democratic Congressman Ritchie Torres said, in part, Trump seems to believe he can do whatever he wishes in the name of saving the country. Torres adds the U.S. Constitution trumps the policy preferences of President Trump.

[17:39:57]

Joining us now is Margaret Talev, senior contributor for Axios and director of the Institute for Democracy, Journalism, and Citizenship at Syracuse University. Margaret, I want to get your reaction to Trump's post. What do you make of this? MARGARET TALEV, SENIOR CONTRIBUTOR FOR AXIOS, DIRECTOR OF THE INSTITUTE FOR DEMOCRACY, JOURNALISM AND CITIZENSHIP: Well, Paula, it's certainly designed to get everyone's attention and create quite a reaction, and it's doing that so far. He has taken steps like pinning it or putting it out there to begin with. It's, obviously, he wants people talking about this.

So, the question is, what is he trying to tell us? Is he foreshadowing a series of actions that will flout the law that judges will push back on and that he'll say, I'm doing it anyway because it's for the country or is it -- is the purpose of it to get the reaction or is the purpose of it somewhere in between?

And the truth is, at this point, we don't know yet, but we do know that the very essence of the quote, it has been attributed to Napoleon. Yes, the former French emperor who was then exiled after Waterloo and who took hold of leadership with a coup.

So, it is a provocative quote and is designed to be provocative. I think the question or the concern both from lawmakers and also from the legal community is, is this more than just a provocation? Is this him broadcasting his intentions as he continues to push boundaries?

REID: Well, speaking of someone who is not known to be provocative, former Vice President Mike Pence wrote and linked to this article where he says -- quote -- "Without proper adherence to the role contemplated in the Constitution for the presidency, the checks and balances in the constitutional plan become weakened." What is he getting at here?

TALEV: There has been a debate or a provocative discussion again inside sort of Trump world about the idea of whether we're in a post- constitutional era, whether the Constitution that founded the United States continues to be relevant or should continue to be relevant.

But, of course, you know, to your point, you're right. It's a nation of laws. There's a rule of law and there are three separate branches of government and the Supreme Court ultimately decides whether actions fall within the law. That's -- those are the rules of the country. And if there weren't those rules, there would be, you know, lawlessness and violence and everything would be a jump ball.

So, I think, you know, there -- again, I think it looks to me like all these various parties whether -- whether they're Republican, whether they've been aligned with Trump in the past or not, are trying to figure out, is this again meant to have a chilling effect or get everyone's attention and that's it or is this foreshadowing of steps to come? And at this point, because we're only a few weeks into the new administration, all you have to go on are the early actions of the administration.

But certainly, with DOGE, with some of these mass firings, with many moves that are already headed to the courts, the president has shown a willingness, certainly, to push the boundaries of what has ever been allowable behavior by an executive in the modern United States. REID: Now, Trump is also responding to critics who say it's Elon Musk, who is actually the one in charge. Let's take a listen to what he said in a joint interview with Musk on Fox.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Actually, Elon called me. He said, you know, they're trying to drive us apart. I said, absolutely. No, they said, we have breaking news, Donald Trump has ceded control of the presidency to Elon Musk. President Musk will be attending a cabinet meeting tonight at 8:00.

(LAUGHTER)

And I say, it's just so obvious. They're so bad at it. I used to think they were good at it.

ELON MUSK, CEO OF TESLA MOTORS, LEADER OF DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY: Yeah.

TRUMP: They're actually bad at it because if they were good at it, I'd never be president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: What do you think is going on with that interview and behind the scenes?

TALEV: I mean, if it were a reality show, it would certainly be a scripted moment. It seems like, again, a moment that is meant to entertain, to provoke, to people to talk about it. But the truth is Elon Musk isn't doing anything that President Trump hasn't empowered him to do. If President Trump didn't want him doing the things he's doing, he wouldn't be doing them anymore.

So, I think for a lot of members of Congress, there was all of this debate early on about, um, how much scrutiny should cabinet nominees get. Well, if you can install someone outside of the nomination process, who doesn't have to answer to anyone in the Senate and is empowered uniquely by the president unless a court says they can't be, then why does it matter who the cabinet nominees are?

[17:44:57]

So, I think, again, you are really seeing something very different here play out and it is meant to provoke, it is meant to get, you know, people who are concerned about boundaries in the system all whipped up and fired up. It is -- they are playing it as they have intended it, and that's what's going on right now.

REID: Margaret Talev, thank you. More when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:50:00] REID: USA hockey sealing the deal with another score in the final moments of their match against Canada last night. But it didn't take long for things to get chaotic and exciting. Within seconds of the opening Puck Drop, the match turned into a multi-brawl fist fest. CNN's Patrick Snell joins us now. Patrick, what in the world happened?

PATRICK SNELL, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Paula. Hi. Yeah, you said it was a fist fest as if the on-ice tensions weren't enough already, right? Political tensions between the two nations as well rising to the fore there. Canadian fans booing America's national anthem before their NHL four nations face-off in Montreal on Saturday night.

And that tension really did seem to spill over to the ice as well. Just look at this, the friction coming to a boiling point within -- literally, Paula, within seconds of puck drop. Three fights breaking out within the first nine seconds. Hand-to-hand combat like this, though regulated, still common in the sport. We had two American brothers, Matthew and Brady Tkachuk, setting the tone early on getting in the first two brawls.

The United States would gone to win 3-1, earning a spot in Thursday's Four Nations title game in Boston. Let's take a listen. Let's listen in more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRADY TKACHUK, USA WINGER: A lot of unhappy people here, especially Montreal, at a place that is my favorite, even if it wasn't for this tournament. So, to me, to have it that way. But I think it was a group. You know, we were all coming in with that villain mindset that we weren't going to be like tonight and just found a way to win. That's just -- I'm so happy right now.

CONNOR MCDAVID, CANADA CENTER: It was fast again, tight checking, competitive, emotional, had everything that you would want in a hockey game, I thought. As I said, it sucks it didn't go our way but seems far from over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SNELL: And competitive to say the least. Paula, as the Canada star there, Connor McDavid, is saying, this thing is not over. The Canadians still have a chance to advance to that title game against guess who, with a win in their final round Robin matchup against Finland on Monday night. It is still all to play for. Right back to you.

REID: Drama.

SNELL: Hmm.

REID: Patrick Snell, thank you. And the NBA All-Star Game has been around for decades, but it'll look a lot different tonight with a first of its kind mini tournament. CNN's Andy Scholes is in San Francisco. Andy, tell us, what can we expect tonight? ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Well, Paula, as you just mentioned, this is the first time ever we're going to have a mini tournament for the All-Star game. It's a really cool new format. You know, they drafted the All-Star on the three different teams. It was Shaquille O'Neal, Kenny Smith, and Charles Barkley that did all the drafting.

And then the team that won the Rising Stars game, their mini tournament on Friday, they're also going to get to be in this tournament here tonight. It should hopefully help bring some competitive spirit back to the game.

Now, the game, they don't have any time. There's no clock going. Each game is a target score of 40, is what you're going for. So, you're going to get a game-winning shot in each one of these games, which should be quite exciting. Now, Steph Curry, Damian Lillard, they are both on Shaq's OG's (ph) team. I got the chance to speak with both of them leading up to the game. And I asked them, do they think it's going to bring a lot of competitiveness back to the All-Star game with it being a tournament?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPH CURRY, NBA ALL-STAR: Can't be afraid to try something new. We knew the game was a little stale for a couple years. You know, a new format will hopefully kind of shock the system a little bit. I think the smaller, condensed games can keep the competition high.

DAMIAN LILLARD, POINT GUARD, MILWAUKEE BUCKS: I think the newness of it could bring some excitement, but I would say I'm much more a fan of, like, the traditional east versus west.

CURRY: I think it'll work. I hope it'll work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: All right, now, the game is going to tip off at 8 p.m. Eastern on TNT and this is an extra special All-Star game because this is going to be the last one ever on TNT. So, it should be certainly a fun one.

And last night, the action was incredible as well for the dunk contest. Mac McClung putting on a performance for the ages. He's the first player ever to win back to back to back dunk contest. And he jumped over a car for his very first dunk, which was just insane. The whole crowd was on their feet. He got a perfect score of 50 in all four of his dunks. And he never missed, which was incredible.

I got the chance to catch up with him on the court right afterwards. I asked him, how does it feel to be the best dunker of all time?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAC MCCLUNG, GUARD, OSCEOLA MAGIC: Really just out of the love of dunking. I think when you love something and that's your action, then you can kind of be better at it than you usually would.

SCHOLES: Are you now the greatest dunker of all time?

MCCLUNG: That's not for me to say at all. I'm just happy to be here, man. And however this story goes, I don't know, it's mine and I'll embrace it.

SCHOLES: All right, you got my vote.

MCCLUNG: I appreciate it, man.

SCHOLES: Congrats, congrats.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: Yeah, Paula, it was just incredible.

[17:54:59]

Mac McClung, 6'2", just incredible dunk after incredible dunk, had the crowd on their feet the entire time. He even inspired some other dunkers to potentially get into the competition. John Morant said he might have to start putting his name into the dunk contest moving forward. We'll wait and see, but what an epic performance that was.

REID: Looks like a blast. Andy Scholes, thank you so much. And President Trump says the courts are attacking his executive power, so he wants the Supreme Court to settle it as he fights to fire an ethics watchdog.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)