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CNN International: Zelenskyy Meets with U.S. Special Envoy; Trump's Approval Rating at 47 Percent; Kash Patel Confirmed as FBI Director; Elon Musk Meets with President Milei; Pope Francis Remains in Hospital; Body Retrieved Not Shiri Bibas. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired February 20, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
PAULA NEWTON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, and a very warm welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world and everyone streaming on CNN Max. I'm Paula Newton.
Just ahead for us, Volodymyr Zelenskyy meets the U.S. envoy in Kyiv as the White House says Donald Trump is frustrated with Ukraine's president. The U.S. Senate confirms Kash Patel as the new FBI director. And shaken and stirred. The owners of the James Bond franchise are giving creative control to Amazon MGM Studios.
Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says strong ties between Washington and Kyiv benefit the entire world. He posted the comment after meeting with Donald Trump's envoy to Ukraine and Russia. He also said Ukraine is ready for a strong, effective investment and security agreement with the president of the United States.
And aide to Zelenskyy says the two did not hold a joint press conference at the request of the American side. Trump had called Zelenskyy a dictator after Zelenskyy said President Trump is living in a disinformation space.
Meantime, White House National Security Adviser Michael Waltz has this message for Ukraine. Listen.
MICHAEL WALTZ, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: His frustration with President Zelenskyy that you've heard is multifold. One, there needs to be a deep appreciation for what the American people, what the American taxpayer, what President Trump did in his first term and what we've done since. So, some of the rhetoric coming out of Kyiv, frankly and insults to President Trump were unacceptable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Now, despite what's coming out of the Trump White House, some Republican lawmakers are showing their support for Ukraine as they strongly criticize Russian President Vladimir Putin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): Whoever believes that there is any space for Vladimir Putin and the future of a stable globe better go to Ukraine, they better go to Europe, they better invest the time to understand that this man is a cancer and the greatest threat to democracy in my lifetime.
Vladimir Putin is a liar, a murderer, and a man responsible for ordering the systematic torture, kidnapping, and rape of innocent civilians.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Nick Paton Walsh is in Ukraine and has the details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the closest Ukraine has got to President Trump's noisy push for peace. President Zelenskyy has wanted to meet U.S. Envoy Keith Kellogg for weeks. Just not on a day like today with the U.S.-Ukraine relationship crumbling around them, making what they actually discussed matter less and less.
WALSH: Well, we're now leaving the presidency after being told that we're not expected to get a press conference or statements. Not a suggestion that either man looking for publicity. And we are being told that that format is the request of the American side.
WALSH (voice-over): The last 48 hours have seen Ukraine standing with its main backer in free fall. But their fight against an advancing Russian aggressor has not stopped. Even if the garish rhetoric around it has seemed to drown the dying out.
Trump falsely saying Ukraine started the war and its leader was deeply unpopular, refusing elections.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: A dictator without elections, Zelenskyy better move fast or he's not going to have a country left.
WALSH (voice-over): And then adding Zelenskyy was asleep when he was meant to meet Trump's treasury secretary in Kyiv.
TRUMP: Essentially, they told him no and Zelenskyy was sleeping and unavailable to meet him -- many hours on the train, which is a dangerous trip.
WALSH (voice-over): For clarity, here is Zelenskyy meeting with U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent during that visit, both visibly awake. And here they are again, neither apparently asleep. But the litany of untruths from Trump continues. Perhaps designed to pressure Ukraine into a deal over rare earth minerals that Bessent brought with him. Trump's national security adviser pressing again the need for a deal.
WALTZ: The war has to end. And what comes with that? What comes with that should be at some point elections. What comes with that should be peace. What comes with that is prosperity that we've just offered.
WALSH (voice-over): Two presidents, one in dire need of the other's help, the other apparently keen to leave him that way.
Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Kyiv, Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[18:05:00]
NEWTON: Now, for more on this, we're joined by Sasha Dovzhyk. She joins me as the director of the Institute for Documentation and Exchange in Ukraine. And I really want to welcome you to the program as we continue to parse events in Ukraine and beyond.
Can you give us a sense of how Ukrainians are feeling about everything that's gone on in the last few days? Because it must feel as if the moral underpinnings that all of you have tried to maintain in this war have just been completely ripped apart by U.S. policy.
SASHA DOVZHYK, DIRECTOR, INSTITUTE FOR DOCUMENTATION AND EXCHANGE: Thank you for having me. Actually, Ukrainians feel like they're the only adults left in the room. What we have currently in the news is tantrums from someone we consider the world leader. And Ukrainians are basically left to face up to the deconstruction of the world order as we knew it.
And it's not that it comes as a big surprise for us. Ukrainians have been warning about such a scenario for a very long time, and I would like to remind everyone that it's not the three years that Ukrainians have been fighting against unprovoked neo imperial aggression, but it's 11 years actually.
Today we mark the 11th anniversary of the Russia's invasion of Crimea. It's a stealth operation started on the 20th of February 2014. And back then, the world turned a blind eye to Russia's violation of territorial integrity of a sovereign country, Ukraine.
Fast forward eight years, Russia invaded Ukraine full force. And now, it was not only the peninsula in the east of the country that they occupied and some territory in the east of the country, but actually, the entire Ukraine that is facing bombings, violations of human rights. And yes, as I've said, unprovoked Russian aggression.
And Ukrainians have been resisting for 11 years already. So, it's -- we are not new to this fight. The only addition is that currently we are facing aggression and disinformation from another side, which is the side of our great ally, the United States of America. This feels like an abandonment, but we still hope that it can be rectified.
NEWTON: Abandonment. Does it also feel, though, like betrayal? As you said, you guys have been at this for well over a decade. And I know Ukrainians never want to feel like they're victims. They do want to stand up for their country and for their sovereign rights. So, where do Ukrainians go from here?
DOVZHYK: Ukrainians continue fighting. When I realized I would be talking to you tonight, I actually texted my friends who are currently on the frontlines. One of them is an academic writer, a mother of four, Katrina Zerembuk (ph), who is currently a combat medic. So, I asked her about the reaction to Donald Trump's recent remarks among the troops and where she currently is based. And basically, she said that some of the guys that she was treating, the wounded Ukrainian defenders, said that they would love to have a talk, have a negotiate -- have a go at the negotiations.
I asked another friend of mine, Yam Shaphua (ph), who used to work as an actor in an equestrian theater and enlisted in February 2022 about his reaction to this. He was on a mission. So, he's on a combat line currently. So, he couldn't reply at length, but what followed actually was four paragraphs of, you know, moral philosophy on the nature of good and evil. And of course, he feels like America should choose sides and that America is not choosing wisely currently.
NEWTON: Again, you remind us so poignantly of the sacrifices that Ukrainians have made from every corner of the country and what all of you are fighting for. I do wonder, given the equivocation on the part of President Trump, I know the work that you and other organizations you work with have done to try and document Russian war crimes.
I mean, where -- do you fear now that this whole new environment, because it's almost a whole new vocabulary that it will fail to produce any accountability on those war crimes?
[18:10:00]
DOVZHYK: The fear is real because it is the lack of accountability for the war crimes of the past 11 years -- or eight years before the full-scale invasion that actually allowed Russia, paved the way for the full-scale invasion of Ukraine.
The war crimes in the occupied territories in the east of Ukraine, Donetsk, Luhansk regions, the war crimes in Crimea that were not punished, that were not persecuted just signal to Putin that he could continue along the way and that he would not be -- actually, he would not be facing any consequences.
If now what he gets for the full-scale invasion of a suffering country is just a tap on the shoulder, I believe that he would not stop on Ukraine and there will be further violations of European security and a global security.
Putin is not the only autocrat, they're not -- he's not the only dictator who is watching this fight. And I believe the signal that currently is being sent all over the world is not that the democratic order is firm and strong, we should reconsider if we actually believe in those values.
NEWTON: Given, you know, you just talked about European security, what is your message for European leaders? As you know, Emmanuel Macron will be in Washington early next week, Keir Starmer from the U.K. later in the week, what do you say to them about standing in the Oval Office with Donald Trump and what they should tell him and what Europe should be prepared to do for Ukraine?
DOVZHYK: Europe should be prepared to fight. It's a European war. It's a war on the European continent, which just happened to start in Ukraine. Ukrainians have been shielding the rest of the continent and giving the rest of the continent time to find resources and to basically find some strength and some courage to face up to the Russian military aggression.
And currently, it's time for our European partners to actually put boots on the ground. Because if there is a negotiation and if there is a peace deal, we should realize that the line of combat in Ukraine is very long and it should be meant not only by Ukrainians alone. If there are no European troops on the ground in Ukraine, this line will be violated by Russia the way it was violated in the previous years.
I would like to remind our viewers and listeners that Ukraine already signed peace papers with Russia in 2015. As we know, it didn't mean peace. It just meant the prolongation of the war and occupation, which is just war by different means. And yes, of course, it's allowed Russia to re-invade Ukraine full force in 2022.
NEWTON: Indeed, CNN's own reporting shows that Vladimir Putin does not seem to be interested in any kind of a ceasefire or actually changing any kind of the military doctrine that he's engaged in Ukraine thus far. Sasha Dovzhyk, we will leave it there for now. Thank you so much.
DOVZHYK: Thank you.
NEWTON: Now, it has been, in fact, exactly one month since President Trump was sworn into office, and a new CNN poll suggests that President Trump's approval rating is at 47 percent. This is what's interesting here, that's higher than at any point during his first term in office, even though that support is sliding.
The same poll also shows more than half of Americans believe President Trump has gone too far in his use of presidential power. There are other warning signs as well from this poll. We're joined now by Stephen Collinson. He's a senior reporter for CNN politics and a very busy man trying to analyze.
We'll start just with the poll numbers, although there was a lot of news to digest as well. What did you see in that poll? Because I do want to remind everyone that about 62 percent of people, I will say, say that the president isn't doing the job that he should be doing. The primary job that voters say he had was to bring down prices.
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Yes, that was really the major issue in the election last year. And talking with senior Republicans recently, they are very aware that that is a real danger sign for the president if he doesn't do enough to address the high prices, not just of groceries, but of rent, of cars. And that could really turn into a real problem for his popularity as his presidency wears on.
[18:15:00]
We saw the vice president, J. D. Vance, in Washington today saying that all of the elevated inflation of the last few weeks, that was because of President Joe Biden's spending policies. But that excuse is only going to wash for so long, I think. So, this really is a danger sign.
And in fact, a lot of the policies that the president is proposing, they threaten to raise prices even more, a lot of those tariffs that are coming into force. Most economic analysts believe that the American consumer will end up paying the price for those. So, a real warning sign, perhaps this is the start of the end of the honeymoon for Trump.
Presidents usually get about six months before their approval ratings start to dip. Trump, although, as you point out, is more popular in CNN polling than he has ever been, it looks like it's starting to trend a little bit southwards for him.
NEWTON: You know, I think he's believing that he can mitigate some of this by even everything that Elon Musk is doing, they are now talking about these DOGE dividend checks, right, this kind of checks that they'll give out to all Americans. How serious of a proposal would that be? Especially given the fact that we still have not seen proof of how much money has been saved.
COLLINSON: Yes, and I think that is going to have some opposition in Congress, frankly, just to sending out money to Americans without any accountability. But we have seen in the past when there's been, for example, a tax cut, presidents have sent a rebate out to Americans. The problem with it is it's a fairly short-term fix. If they're trying to buy popularity, it only works once. And there's no indication so far, from Musk or anybody else, how big that check would be.
So, I guess it would be popular with voters for a short time, but I don't think it's going to fix the issue of prices. And to a lot of voters, I think it's going to come across as a gimmick, even if it's a welcome gimmick.
NEWTON: Yes. And the White House did not have any straight answers on how it would not affect inflation. In fact, even when asked. Stephen Collinson, we will leave it there on what has been an incredible first month in office. Appreciate it.
COLLINSON: Thanks.
NEWTON: Now, as we were just discussing. American consumers are worried. Walmart, in fact, now says is worried that the consumer caution showing up in recent polls will impact its profits. The largest U.S. retailer says results are robust now, but it warns that inflation and tariff outlook, as we were just discussing, as well as fears over a softening jobs market will weigh on consumer sentiment in the months ahead.
Walmart's warning sending its shares down more than 6 percent Thursday and helping trigger a 1 percent drop in the Dow. All this is another U.S. retailer, Target, faces a backlash after ending diversity, equity, and inclusion programs. Certainly not an easy time to be a major retailer in the United States. Sucharita Kodali joins me now. She is a retail analyst at Forrester Research, and I thank you for joining us. I do want to get first to Walmart, which has to be described as a bellwether for all, and I think this caught a lot of investors off guard. The guidance was extremely cautious, even though Walmart does so well in times of either high inflation or really belt tightening.
SUCHARITA KODALI, RETAIL ANALYST, FORRESTER RESEARCH: Right, right. This should be a time that Walmart wins. And candidly, almost any economy is a time that Walmart wins because it is a place where consumers go when they need to trade down. And it's a place that people go to purchase more when they're doing well.
So, it is absolutely concerning. Retail has been on a very positive trajectory since the pandemic. It has outpaced inflation. And even during this period of high inflation, it's been doing really, really well. So, to have this warning sign from Walmart is certainly something that we're all very worried about. We're going to be looking at it very carefully because if Walmart can't weather it, that means that every other competitor in the retail sector won't be able to either.
NEWTON: And I thought what they said was really interesting. They didn't see signs of the tariffs having an impact yet, and they're not even in place yet, there's just a threat. And they didn't even really price it in to their forecast, and yet, they realize that even just the speaking of it is having an effect on the American consumer and beyond.
KODALI: Well, I think that it's more what has had an effect for Walmart's share prices that they are now projecting that their earnings are going to be a little softer than before. I think the reason that Walmart hasn't really talked about it is there still a lot of question about whether or not these federal moves are actually things that are going to have teeth or whether it's just still political theater that is really intended to simply get other levers in the geopolitical landscape in place, like, for instance, immigration or the -- you know, kind of the transportation of narcotics across borders. I think those are some of the things that are sort of held as the reasons that tariffs could be a threat.
[18:20:00]
So, there's a reasonable sentiment that, you know, kind of maybe this won't be a reality and we don't need to change our projections too much. But I think now, especially given that their competitors, like, for instance, Amazon list the threat of tariffs much more highly on their risk factors and their SEC filings, which suggests that their scenarios probably suggest that it's going to be more of a reality than maybe Walmart had been projecting.
NEWTON: And talking about risk factors, I mean, who would have predicted that Target's DEI and then abandoning of DEI would be a risk factor for that company? Can you really kind of dissect this for us and what has happened to that retailer since its announcement? KODALI: You know, there's so much to dissect with Target because it is a company that has definitely faced a lot of executional challenges. Now, the issue with DEI was largely due to the fact that they -- in 2023, they had some fixtures that were related to pride merchandise and there were some activists that were very distressed by that and essentially asked for a boycott of Target. And what happened was that there was a significant decline in sales for the quarter or so after. Their share price suffered for a short period of time, but then it recovered.
It's more recently been challenged, but the more recent issues are due to those executional problems that I mentioned. But part of the reason that they are clawing back some of this is because their share price is down significantly from 2021, and they've been sued by the State of Florida for essentially prioritizing DEI, which is significant risk in those plaintiffs' mind versus Target's focus on financial returns to shareholders. And that affects the pensions of citizens in Florida.
NEWTON: If you are a major retailer, though, in the United States, what's the lesson from what's happened to Target here?
KODALI: Well, I think that the lesson is be wary of culture wars. That is something that it is increasingly difficult for companies to avoid because more consumers demand that companies take a stance. But on the other hand, what we're seeing is that there is usually no winning point of view that you can have because you may feel like you're taking a moral high ground in one position, but then there are a significant percent of consumers that will take the other side and boycott you.
So, there's really a damned if you do, damned if you don't outcome. And that puts CEOs in a really, really difficult position. It's best to probably stay out of these issues altogether.
NEWTON: Yes, although staying on the sidelines sometimes is difficult in and of itself, even though what you're trying to do is run a business. We will leave it there for now, but I really appreciate your insights. Thanks so much.
KODALI: Thank you.
NEWTON: Now, just ahead for us, the FBI has its new director after contentious confirmation hearings. Former FBI agent and CNN Correspondent Josh Campbell joins me to discuss Kash Patel.
Plus, why Argentina's president gave Elon Musk a chainsaw. You'll want to see this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:25:00]
NEWTON: The U.S. Senate has confirmed Kash Patel as the new FBI director, adding to a recent streak of approvals for the Trump White House. Now, the vote for Patel a few hours ago was 51 to 49. Just two Republican senators sided with Democrats. Now, during confirmation hearings, Senate Democrats focused on Patel's past comments on political retribution. Here's an example of those.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KASH PATEL, FBI DIRECTOR NOMINEE: I'd shut down the FBI Hoover building on day one and reopening the next day as a museum of the deep state.
We will go out and find the conspirators, not just in government, but in the media. Yes, we're going to come after the people in the media who lied about American citizens, who helped Joe Biden rig presidential elections. We're going to come after you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: CNN's Josh Campbell joins us. And you really have a unique perspective on this, which is why we want you to really parse this for us in terms of the fact that he was confirmed, and now what happens next? I mean, look, you have experience in the FBI director's office. What does this mean, given that the FBI is supposed to be beyond politics, right? It's supposed to be nonpartisan.
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: That is the big shift that people inside the FBI are expecting here that we may be seeing a very different FBI than the one that we have seen over the past several decades, and that is because, as you mentioned, what is supposed to happen is that you're supposed to have an FBI director that is independent from a White House, and that all stemmed from, you know, 50 years ago, Congress actually instituted a 10-year term for the FBI director, and that's because just, you know, prior to that, both the FBI and CIA were found by Congress to have engaged in illegal abuses of, you know, civil liberties and the like.
You had an FBI director before that who was trying to curry favor with various administrations. Congress said, we don't want that anymore. We want an independent FBI director. And since then, that was supposed to ensure that FBI and CIA, you know, followed the law, didn't get too close to the White House. That will all be wiped away, potentially, if we actually see Kash Patel act in a manner that he has and he has said openly in podcasts, in speeches, in presentations, in a book about wanting to go after members of the so-called deep state in the FBI and what Senate Democrats have called an enemy's list that he came up with before he was actually picked to actually run the bureau. So, a lot of concerns there.
But nevertheless, we did see him actually confirmed today just prior to the vote that actually passing in the U.S. Senate. Senate Democrats made a last dish effort trying to appeal to Republicans that, look, this is not the nominee who will bring about independence. Have a listen to one senior Democrat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): Think about what you will tell your constituents, more important, your family, maybe your grandchildren, about why you picked and voted for this person who will so completely and utterly disgrace this office and do such grave damage to our nation's justice system.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMPBELL: Of course, nevertheless, Democrats failed. The Patel nomination was actually approved by the Senate. We are waiting for him to actually be sworn in as FBI director. And of course, President Donald Trump has long railed against the FBI, accusing them of all kinds of, you know, misdeeds, particularly in investigations pertaining to him.
One thing that's interesting looking forward, not only for the day-to- day operations of the FBI, but particularly for our international audiences, there's a great concern that I'm hearing from inside the FBI about what this might do to the FBI's global relationships with partners around the world. You know, there's constant intelligence sharing between various departments overseas and the FBI, both to stop threats here at home, to stop threats abroad.
The big concern is, is that if foreign intelligence services and law enforcement services think that an FBI director is so closely politically lined -- aligned to a president, would they share potential information that they got that might be advantageous to a president? Whereas in the past, again, the focus has typically been on independence.
NEWTON: And Josh, when it comes to rank and file and the FBI themselves, are they bracing for mass firings? And you know, they'll say that it's for efficiency, but do they feel it'll actually be about retribution?
[18:30:00]
CAMPBELL: They're -- yes. Certainly is. I mean, we know the president has already said that there will be firings inside the FBI. Interestingly, the U.S. Justice Department, which is now, you know, obviously run by the Trump administration, they demanded that the FBI hand over the names of 5,000 employees who were involved in investigating the January 6, 2021 capital insurrection. And the concern there is that because Trump, you know, and his allies have criticized that investigation, they could actually be seeing employees fired for simply, you know, doing their job in investigating those cases and not to mention all the other cases that Donald Trump was involved in.
Again, he was indicted multiple times for alleged crimes. Those cases were then thrown out once he actually got elected president, but there still is a big concern that there could be this campaign of retribution going on, not just to senior leaders inside the FBI, but to rank and file people who aren't political, who do the job as investigations come their way to try to get to the bottom of what happened.
NEWTON: Yes. And a lot of that work, we should add, is keeping people safe each and every day, not just here in the United States, but beyond. Josh Campbell, it is Kash Patel's FBI and you're going to cover it for us. I appreciate it. Thanks so much.
CAMPBELL: You got it. Thank you.
NEWTON: Now, Elon Musk met with Argentine President Javier Milei on Thursday, continuing a trend of high-level meetings with heads of state. He's also recently met with India's prime minister, Narendra Modi, of India. And Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
Now, the Argentine president has said Musk is a fan of his, quote, "chainsaw approach" to government bureaucracy. He even gifted a chainsaw to Elon Musk during their meeting earlier this week, while they faced calls for impeachment after promoting a little-known cryptocurrency. Stefano Pozzebon has our details.
STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, Paula, the president of Argentina, Javier Milei, brought a chainsaw as a present for Elon Musk as the two met in Washington, D.C. on Thursday afternoon. This chainsaw can be seen as a sign of how closely aligned the two men are.
Musk has praised Milei's policies in the past. These policies include laying off more than 30,000 public workers and freezing public workers' salaries in general in Argentina. And you can see from photos released on social media, Paula, that Musk has shown his appreciation for the chainsaw approach, which is how Milei describes his crusade to slash public spending in his own country.
The Argentinian president is in the U.S. until the end of the weekend and is expected to speak on Saturday at the Conservative Political Action Conference or CPAC, an event U.S. President Donald Trump is also expected to attend.
At the same time, Paula, Milei's trip comes at a moment when he's facing a mounting scandal in his home country for his involvement in promoting a meme coin last week. Shortly after Milei posted his support for this meme coin, the value of this cryptocurrency crashed in a matter of hours, triggering considerable losses for tens of thousands of investors. Milei has defended himself for saying he did not intend to promote the cryptocurrency as a stable asset and also saying that people who invest in crypto should know the risk. Paula.
NEWTON: Our thanks to Stefano there. And we will be right back with more in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:35:00]
NEWTON: Welcome back to CNN Newsroom. I'm Paula Newton, and here are the international headlines we are watching. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says he held a productive meeting with U.S. Envoy Keith Kellogg and that it gave him hope. Zelenskyy also says Ukraine is ready for an investment and security deal with the United States. The White House national security adviser says, President Trump is frustrated with Zelenskyy and wants the war to end.
Former Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell will not seek re- election next year. McConnell turned 83 on Thursday and he announced his decision on the Senate floor. The Kentucky Republican has been in office since 1984. He's faced health issues in recent years and has clashed at times with President Trump.
Spain's former football boss, Luis Rubiales, found guilty of sexually assaulting Jenni Hermoso, a member of the women's national team. Rubiales kissed her without consent when he was -- when she was celebrating her World Cup win in 2023. The ruling bans him from being within 200 meters of Hermoso. He also was ordered to pay a fine of about $11,000. Rubiales says he will appeal.
Now, a developing story out of Israel. Officials are stopping and inspecting all buses and trains right across the country after explosions on several buses south of Tel Aviv. Israeli police are calling this a suspected terror attack. No injuries have been reported as of now.
Now, we're getting a rare look at a weapon in use right across the globe, the Iranian-made Shahed 136 drone, used by Russia to strike Ukrainian cities, by Iran against Israel, and by Yemen's Houthi rebels against ships in the Red Sea. That weapon is now for the first time in the United States, brought to convince MAGA conservatives that Iran remains a real threat. Oren Liebermann has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): One of Iran's most prolific weapons coming together on American soil. A complete Shahed 136.
LIEBERMANN: This is the warhead? That's the warhead.
LIEBERMANN (voice-over): Capable of carrying a hundred-pound warhead more than a thousand miles. The one-way attack drone came to the U.S. by Poland from the Ukrainian battlefield.
MARK WALLACE, CEO, UNITED AGAINST NUCLEAR IRAN: They're an indiscriminate terror weapon, innocent women, children, infrastructure that's hit.
LIEBERMANN (voice-over): The Shahed 136 and the smaller Shahed 131 are perhaps Iran's most ubiquitous weapon. They have proliferated in Ukraine, where Russia has terrorized the population with these drones, repeatedly striking civilian infrastructure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, contact.
LIEBERMANN (voice-over): Many are intercepted, but not all. Iran has used their Shahed drones to attack shipping in the Middle East, oil facilities in Saudi Arabia, and a direct attack on Israel back in April.
LIEBERMANN: Do you have this here to advocate for a direct attack on Iran?
WALLACE: No, I -- look, we have always been the sanctions people. We have been really the architects really of maximum pressure before maximum pressure was even fashionable.
LIEBERMANN: What's the red line where you advocate -- go from advocating sanctions and maximum pressure to advocating strikes?
WALLACE: I think you have to keep all options on the table. And when they attack and they harm or threatened to harm Americans and our allies, I think we have to be prepared to strike those IRGC targets.
LIEBERMANN (voice-over): We've seen these before, but not in the United States. The organization, United Against Nuclear Iran, brought this one to CPAC, a right-wing political conference where a hawkish message on Tehran will find a friendly target.
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: Here's a piece of that Iranian drone.
[18:40:00]
LIEBERMANN (voice-over): The spectacle reminiscent of the one from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in 2018.
NETANYAHU: Mr. Zarif, do you recognize this? You should. It's yours.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Announcing today --
LIEBERMANN (voice-over): Months later, President Donald Trump withdrew from the Iran nuclear deal in his first term. Now, Netanyahu is openly pushing for more.
NETANYAHU: Israel has dealt a mighty blow to Iran's terror axis under the strong leadership of President Trump. I have no doubt that we can and will finish the job.
LIEBERMANN (voice-over): U.S. Intelligence agencies warned the Trump administration that Israel will likely attempt to strike Iran's nuclear facilities this year, according to sources familiar with the assessments. But Trump has openly signaled a desire to end wars, not start them.
TRUMP: You can't allow them to have a nuclear weapon, but there's two ways of stopping them, with bombs or with a written piece of paper. And I'd much rather do a deal that's a deal that's not going to hurt them.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: Our thanks to Oren Liebermann for that report. You are watching CNN. We'll be back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEWTON: And now, to Rome, where the pope remains in hospital. He was diagnosed with pneumonia in both lungs this week. Sources tell CNN the pontiff is surrounded by his closest collaborators. As the Vatican says, he continues to carry out work activities. Catholics have been gathering outside the hospital meantime, laying flowers and praying for his recovery. Christopher Lamb reports from Rome.
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CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: For the second day running, the Vatican saying that Pope Francis' condition is slightly improving. He's been in the hospital behind me at the Gemelli for seven days now. And the Vatican saying, though, that he continues to be without a fever, that his blood flow parameters are stable, and that he has been devoting himself to some work activities. The pope appointed a bishop in France today.
We're also told that he received the Eucharist, and this is something the Vatican has said a number of times. It suggests, though, that the pope is not going to the chapel, he has a chapel on the 10th floor in the suite of rooms where he is staying, but is largely confined to his hospital room. And the doctors have ordered the pope to rest so he can recover from this serious infection.
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Now, the pope is 88 years old. He has part of his right lung missing. He has a history of respiratory infection. So, this is a complex and uncertain situation for the pope. However, these signs from the Vatican tonight suggests that things are moving in a more positive direction, although, of course, we are awaiting further updates from the Vatican in the coming hours.
Christopher Lamb, CNN, Rome.
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NEWTON: Germans head to the polls Sunday to elect a new parliament and a new government. Following the collapse of the Chancellor's Coalition, more than 59 million people are eligible to cast ballots to elect a new parliament. After the parliamentary elections, the (INAUDIBLE) in turn will vote for a new chancellor, a party on the far-right has been gaining some international backing, notably from Elon Musk, the world's richest man.
As CNN's Sebastian Shukla reports, the AfD is also garnering support from a growing number of young Germans.
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SEBASTIAN SHUKLA, CNN PRODUCER (voice-over): Suhl is a sleepy town in former East Germany, but over the last few years it has seen a major political awakening with the far-right, the Alternative for Germany, the AfD.
SHUKLA: This region, Thuringia, is AfD heartland. In fact, it became the first regional state to elect a far-right party since the Nazi era. So, we've come to hear from the most controversial figure in the region, Bjorn Hocke, and who might be listening to him.
SHUKLA (voice-over): The AfD in Thuringia is designated an extremist organization by German intelligence authorities. Hocke, as its head, has previously been convicted for the use of banned Nazi slogans. Nevertheless, he's feated in these parts, in particular among young people. A question I put to him.
SHUKLA: There is rising popularity among young voters for the AfD. Are you a good role model?
BJORN HOCKE, AFD FACTION LEADER IN THURINGIA, GERMANY (through translator): I hope that my performance is lively and that the youth can also identify with me. And if they can do that and see a bit of a pop star in me, then that's fine. Because the youth also need idols like that.
SHUKLA (voice-over): Support from the youth for the AfD is growing quickly. In European elections last summer, votes from 16- to 34-year- olds increased 18 percent from 2019. Young people we spoke to at the rally didn't hide their backgrounds either.
Dante Riedel, a 26-year-old student, told me he's also designated an extremist and had clear ideological views.
DANTE RIEDEL, STUDENT, AFD SUPPORTER (through translator): Personal virtues, things like diligence, discipline, et cetera. These are the things that are important, including the cardinal virtues from antiquity.
SHUKLA (voice-over): Eric Engelhardt spent his evening photographing Hocke, and as the regional head of the Young Alternatives, the AfD's youth wing, he's another party and Hocke disciple. We met up with Eric and his friend Max the next day in picturesque Sonneburg. I asked Eric about Hocke's pop star comments.
ERIC ENGELHARDT, "YOUNG ALTERNATIVE'S" LEADER IN THURINGIA, GERMANY (through translator): I see him as a politician who can achieve a lot for his country. He stands for something. The stands for his cause.
SHUKLA (voice-over): The Young Alternatives are also designated extremists by the domestic intelligence services, something that Eric says is a political conspiracy.
ENGELHARDT (through translator): Our Secret Service is controlled by politicians. It is an authority that is bound by instructions and ultimately it does what is said from above. We ourselves are not extremists. There are no extremists in the Young Alternatives.
SHUKLA (voice-over): The association was recently forced to disband effective 31st of March, but the mission isn't changing.
ENGELHARDT (through translator): Migration is the mother of all crisis. We have a lot of illegal immigrants in this country who are also on welfare, who are not behaving in this country. Many young people are on the side of the AfD and naturally won't change.
SHUKLA (voice-over): Eric says the youth won't be deterred. They will be back, more formally aligned with the AfD and under a different name, but with the same vision for Germany's future.
Sebastian Shukla, CNN, Thuringia, Germany.
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NEWTON: And we do have breaking news from Israel involving the return of the four alleged hostage remains from Hamas. The IDF, just moments ago, saying that the remains do not include the bodies -- pardon me, do include the bodies of Ariel and Kfir Bibas. They, you'll remember, were some of the youngest victims of the October 7th terror attack. But the IDF now says forensic evidence and intelligence suggested the boys were murdered. Add to that the fact that one body is apparently not their mother, Shiri. And the Israeli military says it still has not identified the remains.
I want to bring in the former State Department Middle East negotiator Aaron David Miller to give us some perspective on this. I mean, first I have to highlight the devastating news that this is to everyone in Israel really given the mourning that has gone on with this family was returned not alive but in coffins. But this is really startling given the state of ceasefire negotiations right now as well.
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AARON DAVID MILLER, FORMER U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT MIDDLE EAST NEGOTIATOR: Look, this has been a problem all along with Hamas being unable to identify which hostages they have, both living and dead, and failing to be honest and up front with the Israelis.
This is a -- I mean, the cruelty and barbarity of this. I mean, aside from the fact that the forensics may suggest that the children were murdered to try to -- I don't know what Hamas was thinking, to try to substitute a body that wasn't Shiri Bibas, what do they think the Israel -- how the Israelis are going to respond? And the question now is, is this going to jeopardize Saturday's return of the six living hostages?
I mean, this is just -- it's -- it reflects the tragedy and the humanity, frankly, and the inhumanity of Hamas. And it also suggests that in a negotiation where it's being done indirectly between State of Israel and an organization that the United States by statute considers a foreign terrorist organization, that implementation was never going to be smooth.
But this, I think, really reflects a degree of psychological torture on one hand and incompetence by Hamas on the other.
NEWTON: Yes, and given at this hour that all trains and buses have been stopped right across Israel, again, an entire country living in a state of fear and terror, this obviously put salt in that wound, given, as I said, the entire country has mourned for this family. The father being released and then just learning that his entire family had been murdered.
I mean, look, we don't play it because we just don't want to exploit it, but the look of fear and terror on this mother's face as she was holding her two babies before she was handed off there. What will this do in terms of the Israelis themselves and how they will feel going into having to strike another deal in order to get more hostages out alive from Gaza?
MILLER: You know, the shadow of October 7 is long and it's dark and it's certainly not going to go away easily. I guess the Israeli public and the polls suggest overwhelmingly that they want the prime minister to basically return the hostages, prioritize the return of the hostages, but the other reality is that this will stoke a lot of hatred and feelings of revenge, and will validate the notion, the government's notion that Hamas needs to be destroyed. Not just as a military organization, but its presence in Gaza needs to be eliminated. It's going to complicate matters.
But again, I reflect on the human dimension of this tragedy. And this is psychological torture, intended or otherwise. I think it simply reflects the reality, at least for Israelis, that October 7th will be remembered as by far the worst day in the history of the State of Israel, and that pain and tragedy continues daily.
NEWTON: Now, as you said, inhumane for this family in particular, but obviously, the entire country to have to endure this now. I do ask you in terms of the politics of this, because there's a lot that hangs in the balance. Benjamin Netanyahu had already indicated that he thought he gave up too much in the first deal. He's kind of reassigned people in order of going forward.
And yet, do you -- and I just ask you categorically, do you believe that this could really put the entire deal in jeopardy going forward?
MILLER: Frankly, I think this will only add to the reality that it's going to be extremely difficult. Like it's hard to imagine how you move from phase one to phase two in this implementation process. It really is. I mean, the list that Hamas will have to return all of the hostages on one hand end the war on the other, and Israel has to withdraw all of its forces for Hamas and this current Israeli government, those are lifts, I think, that are going to be extremely difficult to manage.
And remember, we have one more in phase one, there's one more release on Saturday. I'm just hoping somehow that that release goes forward.
NEWTON: What would be your advice to the Trump administration at this hour that, you know, took a lot of credit for this first phase and now may see the second phase in complete jeopardy?
MILLER: I think they have to make a judgment and determination what they prioritize. Is it the return of the hostages or is it the destruction of Hamas? The Israeli government, I think, is much more interested in the latter.
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And whether or not the Trump administration can work with the mediators and with the Israelis to move this process to the end of phase two, which would be the return of the 59 hostages that the Israelis believe remain, 25 they believe are alive. This is going to be -- however this ends, it's going to be a very, very tragic story for families, for friends and the loved ones of those hostages. NEWTON: Aaron David Miller, we will leave it there for now as we continue to follow the breaking news out of Israel. Thank you again for jumping on for us as we continue to share the news with you that the Israeli military is saying that the two baby boys, the Bibas boys, they believe were murdered in Gaza and now also saying that their mother, Shiri, whose body was supposed to be returned along with her boys to the family, that indeed her body was not in the transfer today and is instead the body of someone who they cannot identify, whose remains they cannot identify.
I want to thank you for joining us here at CNN Newsroom. I'm Paula Newton in New York. Stay with CNN. We'll have more news after a quick break.
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