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Angry Voters Confront GOP Lawmakers Amid Trump's Power Grab; U.S. Allies Scramble After Trump & Vance Attacks, Reversals; Dr. Sanjay Gupta Answers Your Questions About Measles. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired February 21, 2025 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[11:00:12]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, good morning to you. You are live in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Pamela Brown in Washington on this Friday. And we begin with the breaking news. President Trump is about to speak with governors at the White House. He'll be talking with a group of bipartisan governors to strengthen the partnership between federal and state governments. Of course, we will bring that to you.

And this comes as his administration is ramping up the mass firings of federal employees. From the CDC to Veterans Affairs to the Forest Service, workers by the thousands are being shown the exits. Many work in the various states these governors serve. And it's not just the governors feeling the heat, so are some lawmakers in their home districts. Just one example, a town hall held by Georgia Republican Congressman Rich McCormick.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tyranny is rising in the White House and a man has declared himself our king. So I would like to know, rather, the people would like to know what you, Congressman, and your fellow congressmen are going to do to rein in the megalomaniac in the White House?

REP. RICH MCCORMICK (R-GA): Things are going to be more controversial than others. Some things are going to seem partisan. But by and large, the President has great purview over where a lot of this money goes. Now, some of this is going to be litigated. I'll pause whenever you want. And you can go and yell all you want. But I can't understand 10 people, let alone 100 people at once.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you are doing us a disservice to set that down and not stand up for us and control --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Americans are deeply divided over Trump's first month back in office. About half say that he has overstepped when it comes to using presidential power. And about the same feel that he has gone too far in cutting federal programs. Joining us now is CNN's Rene Marsh and Washington correspondent for the Atlanta Journal Constitution, Tia Mitchell. So I want to bring you in for some perspective and context here, Tia. The congressman and his staff seemed a little bit caught off guard by this backlash. Tell us more about his district and the people who live there and who were there at that meeting.

TIA MITCHELL, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, THE ATLANTA JOURNAL CONSTITUTION: So Rich McCormick's district is a pretty red district. It voted for Trump by about 20 percent above how the district voted for Kamala Harris. However, last night's town hall was held in Roswell, which is a suburb of Atlanta. It's North Fulton County. It's one of those towns that has increasingly become more Democratic as more young -- more and younger families have moved to that part of the -- the state.

So I think that even though his district is pretty red, he went to an area that was bluer. He went to an area -- area that is less, you know, Trumpy overall. And I think that was reflected a little bit in the turnout for this particular town hall.

BROWN: Interesting. Important context there, Rene, to go to you. So a federal judge declined to stop a union request to halt Trump's mass firing, saying that he doesn't have the jurisdiction to review. Tell us about that.

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. So labor unions asked this federal judge to pause the mass firing of these probationary employees that we've been seeing from agency to agency. But what the judge said is that there is a process here and the -- the -- the labor unions actually have to follow that process, which is going to the labor board first before bringing this claim to the court. So he just felt that he didn't have jurisdiction. Doesn't mean that this is over, it just means that they missed a step in his eyes and needed to go through that process.

But, Pamela, I mean, that video really kind of highlights here the sort of cracks that we are starting to see, even if Roswell is a growing blue area here in Georgia. The fact of the matter is some 80 percent of the federal workforce is outside of Washington, D.C., and that includes red states like Georgia, where you have some 79,000 federal workers. So when you're talking about mass layoffs and firings, it's happening in these red districts. It's happening in these red states.

And -- and the question is going to become, how do these Republican lawmakers deal with angry people who are losing their jobs? And yet these Republican lawmakers are staying true to or trying to stay true to the President and his policies. It'll be interesting to see how they'll handle that because it's not just the job cuts, but it's also the funding freezes. We have farmers in red states who say that they can't access funds.

Some of them voted for Trump, but they can't access funds from the USDA. And then you have the cuts that happened at the NIH where you have senators like Susan Collins reflecting on how, you know, these research centers that hire hundreds of thousands of employees within their communities, it's a big part of these economies, that will impact them. So I will be watching how these Republican lawmakers handle the -- what they're hearing from their constituents who are being impacted by some of these actions.

[11:05:17]

BROWN: Yes, I was just talking to Democratic Congressman Gerry Connolly. He was saying privately some Republicans have expressed to him unease about what is going on because they're getting the heat from some of their constituents directly impacted, whether it be by the firing, not getting the aid like the farmers, people not getting the programs and services they once relied on.

And I think that -- that as this is being felt, Tia, to bring you in on that, what is the sense you're getting from -- from voters that you're talking to? I think it's really important to sort of take the pulse across America on how this is being felt.

MITCHELL: Yes, and of course, you know, voters are divided a lot of times along party lines where you see voters who are supportive of President Trump and very MAGA voters who are saying give him time. Let's root out the fraud. Let's root out the waste. Let's give it some time to play out. But you've seen a lot of other voters, particularly Democrats, but also some voters, as was mentioned, that are Trump supporters saying they're concerned, again, not just about the layoffs, but about the funding freezes.

They're also worried about proposals on the table to perhaps cut some of the safety net programs that a lot of voters of all political stripes rely on. We're talking about Medicaid, food stamps, even people like Rich McCormick have said perhaps we need to find ways to -- to save money at Social Security. And of course, there are many older Americans concerned that those cuts could come to Medicare.

So these programs we know are popular among people, period, no matter who they voted for, for president. And also, let's talk about like veterans. There have been layoffs at the Department of Veterans Affairs. Again, we know our veterans are all political stripes, for example. So I think there are a lot of Americans who just at this juncture are, if not upset, confused at this point, wish there was more transparency, wish there was more information, wish there was messaging coming from the White House that shows there's a method to the madness. And without that information, there is a lot of concern we're hearing from voters. And again, that is starting to kind of cross party lines.

BROWN: Rene, you know, we're talking about the firings and there's actually now a pause on the firings at DOD, right? Tell us about that.

MARSH: So the Pentagon is saying that they're going to pause this plan for the mass firing of probationary employees. CNN had reported on Wednesday it could impact over 50,000 employees there at DOD. But they -- they're saying they're putting the brakes on this for now because they want to review what the impact of those firings would have on military readiness. You know, we have reported already at other agencies like NNSA, the agency charged with maintaining and overseeing the nuclear stockpile for the country. Hundreds of employees were fired there only to have to be rehired. So what we are seeing here is the Pentagon saying, wait, before we do this, let's take a review of what the impact will be. Perhaps some lessons learned from some of these other agencies.

BROWN: Like at the Energy Department for one.

MARSH: Yes.

BROWN: Rene, Tia, thank you both.

[11:08:39]

And still ahead, a top U.S. official calling Ukraine's Volodymyr Zelenskyy, quote, the embattled and courageous leader of a nation at war. It is a far cry from what President Trump called him. We are live in Kyiv next.

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BROWN: Breaking news, President Trump is now finally admitting that Russia attacked Ukraine and then going to fault -- going on to fault the Biden administration and Ukrainian President Zelenskyy. This follows a dizzying week for U.S. diplomacy, with the new Trump administration insulting allies, echoing an adversary and leaving much of the world concerned and somewhat baffled about what's going on here.

So let's take a look. Last Friday, Vice President J.D. Vance shocked the Munich Security Conference by scolding European leaders and accusing them of suppressing free speech. He also said their greatest security threat was from within, not from China or Russia.

And this week, President Trump piled on blaming Ukraine for Russia's illegal invasion three years ago and echoing Russian talking points by calling President Zelenskyy a dictator repeatedly. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is in Kyiv. Alex Marquardt is back here from Saudi Arabia, where the U.S. and Russia just had talks without Ukraine.

A little bit of whiplash here. And you have some new reporting, Nick, on the U.S.-Ukraine peace talks. Tell us about that.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Yes, our understanding from Ukrainian official is that they're very much talking still, negotiating this rare earth mineral con -- contract, which seems to now be at the heart of Ukraine and U.S. relationships, period, going forwards. One element a Ukrainian official tells me that the Ukrainians want to see added is in his terms security elements. That's slightly different to the security guarantees that we heard the President talk about.

[11:14:55]

And at the same time, the official describes a sense of urgency now around these talks. Clearly, they are beginning to overshadow this entire relationship. And it's not clear if they form the focus of the negotiations that the Ukraine envoy, Keith Kellogg, has been having here with Zelenskyy's team over the past days or so, but they're clearly the only thing in town right now. And at the heart of frankly whether we see this relationship stall or begin to evaporate.

The enmity between Zelenskyy and Trump has been startling as a backdrop to Kellogg who'd come here essentially to try and give Ukraine the chance to be involved in the peace process that began between the U.S. and Russia in Saudi Arabia, but that sort of pace over these rare earth minerals continuing to grow. And we understand too that this is all about repaying old debt. And I think the Ukrainians are trying to force into any deal that's eventually signed the idea there will be, as I say, security elements going forwards.

And so, yes, this is a week that should have been about the details of peace potentially, what Ukraine wanted out of that U.S.-Russia rapprochement, but it's been overshadowed by the enmity and we're just hearing now too that Trump has said that Biden did some wrong things, Zelenskyy did some wrong things. He appears in this latest interview to continue to rail against the Ukrainian president and that fractious relationship increasingly distracting from the urgent task between the two nations of making sure their relationship stays on track going forwards.

BROWN: All right, Alex, to bring you in, what are U.S. allies thinking about all of this?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I mean this is whiplash. And Pamela all you have to do is look at how they've been responding in the past week. You have two emergency meetings that President Macron of France set up with -- with European allies. He then announced a sudden trip to Washington. He's going to be here on Monday. That's going to be followed by the British Prime Minister Keir Starmer, as you know well oftentimes, you know, the heads of government trips to Washington are often planned months in advance. And -- and -- and this was very sudden.

Now you have Europe essentially scrambling. They're -- they're having a -- a collective freakout, if you will. And it's not just about Ukrainian security but it's about European security as well which the U.S. has backed up for -- for decades through a variety of means in -- including NATO, so now Europe is sending over probably two of the most effective officials at convincing President Trump.

You have Keir Starmer, you know, a -- a Brit, longtime ally of course that -- that Trump does respect. And President Macron who is kind of a Trump whisperer, he has a good understanding of President Trump's appreciation for pomp and ceremony. President Trump went to Paris back in his first term to see the Bastille Day Parade. President Trump was invited most recently almost as a sitting president to the opening of Notre Dame.

So these two men are going to come here and essentially say please don't give up on Ukraine. Please don't give up on -- on European security. But also please don't give in to Russia and -- and the arguments that they are making. This is going to be a -- a particularly challenging time, so much is in flux. There's -- there's a lot shifting as -- as we've heard just in the past few days.

BROWN: Does it seem when you talk to your sources from U.S. allied countries that they are looking at this as this is just Trump trying to gain leverage and luster and, you know, trying to gain Russia's favor to help -- try to make a peace deal or do they really think that this is the beginning of a new geopolitical alignment?

MARQUARDT: I think many of them looked at the first Trump term as a blip, as an abnormality. And then when President Biden came back in that, you know, we were back into more traditional normal times. But now that we have President Trump in office a second time, I think they understand that a -- that a fundamental shift is underway and this is not the United States that they have known for the past decades and who they have dealt with for the past decades, look no farther than that speech that you referenced that Vice President Vance gave in -- in Munich a week ago in which he scolded Europe and then went on to meet with the head of the German AFD party which has been accused of -- of Nazi sympathies.

Then you had President Zelenskyy standing up the next day and saying we can no longer count on the United States. We need to fend for ourselves. That was a stunning moment. And then during the week we saw top American officials sitting down across the table with -- with Russian officials, not behind closed doors, not secretly, they were doing it out in the open in Saudi Arabia by the way, a country that President Biden essentially kept it at arm's length.

But -- but President Trump is -- is clearly a fan of including their Crown Prince, he's talking about making that his -- his first foreign visit. Then you have all the worry in -- in NATO and -- and -- and concerns about whether the United States will actually support this vital transatlantic alliance. So yes, I think European officials are recognizing that this is very much a different moment not just for Ukraine but about but -- but for Europe as well in the longer term.

BROWN: All right Alex, Nick, thank you so much.

[11:19:45]

Still ahead, the measles outbreak in Texas has grown drastically from 58 to 90 cases. Dr. Sanjay Gupta will answer your questions next in the CNN Newsroom.

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BROWN: Breaking this morning, the measles outbreak in West Texas is getting worse. There are now 90 cases up from 58. CNN chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, is there covering the outbreak and responding to your questions.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, we got a lot of questions about this topic as you might imagine. Let me just get to as many of them as I can here in a few minutes. First one's from Laura who asks, should my two-year-old grandson get his second dose of measles vaccine now instead of waiting until he's four like normally would? This is a really important question and we got a lot of questions along these lines.

[11:25:12]

First of all, I think -- I think it matters a little bit as to where you live. If you were living in an area where there is measles that is circulating, a measles outbreak, you could consider for your grandson getting the earlier shot. Here's the way to think about it. In the United States, which is a little bit different than other countries, you get the first shot around the year of age and then you want to get that second shot before the child starts school. That way you can make sure they're fully protected actually going into school.

First shot gives you about 93 percent protection. The second shot boosts it up to about 97 percent protection. But again to your question, if you are living in an area where measles is circulating and, you know, you're worried about that, getting that second shot earlier is fine and could probably provide some protection earlier. Many countries around the world do this this way.

The reason that it was adopted in the United States as a two-shot first year and then before school is to just make sure that kids were as fully protected as possible going into school. So depending on where you live, getting that second shot early would be fine.

I've got another question here. This one's coming from Elizabeth who asks, I'm 72 years old, had measles as a child. I don't remember children dying from this disease. Has measles become more virulent? So the short answer is no. Measles is a relatively stable virus. It has not become more virulent. And there was a period of time before mass vaccination where just about everyone in the country got measles. Usually by age 15 most people got measles.

But I want to show you something. Now before vaccination you did see death rates starting to fall pretty significantly as medical care improved. But if you look for example around the world, before 1963 you had 2.5 million, 2.6 million people who were dying of measles. And now it's closer to 107,000. So you can see the impact certainly around the world of measles vaccination.

If you look in the United States before 1963, it was 4 to 500 people. In 2015 one person died of measles. So again measles deaths were falling before vaccination. That's because medical care was improving. But then there were still several hundred people who were dying every year of measles. And that's really what this vaccine is designed to prevent.

Not to mention the number of illnesses, the number of days that people have to be quarantined, 21 days that they get measles. So that's in large part what the measles vaccine does for large populations of people. Let's get one more question.

I'm 59. Is the measles vaccine I was given as a child still protecting me? This is from Mary in Illinois. The short answer is yes. You should still be getting protection from the measles vaccine if you got that vaccine, you know, during the mass -- mass vaccination campaigns. First shot again, 93 percent protection. Second shot, 97 percent protection.

Now I will say there's about 1 percent of people who for whatever reason their immunity starts to wane over time. I was working on a documentary about transplant surgery. They wanted me to make sure that I had good measles titers or measles antibodies. So I got my blood checked. And when I did that, I found that I was still well protected. I'm in my mid 50s.

So again, for the vast majority of people, if you've gotten your measles shots, you should be protected. It should be something that works for life. Pamela, we're getting a lot of questions about this. So if we get more questions, we'll certainly bring them to you.

BROWN: Yes. Important information there. Thank you.

[11:28:40]

Still ahead, new information about Pope Francis' condition as he recovers from pneumonia. We've got the latest from Rome up next.

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