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Trump Speaks At CPAC Amid Major Purge At Pentagon; Dozens Line Up For Free Eggs in New York City; Lawmakers Face Backlash At Town Halls Over DOGE Cuts; Former Employees, Lawmakers Express Concern Over CDC Layoffs; Elon Musk's Private Security Detail Deputized By U.S. Marshals; Crowds Gather To Support Suspect Luigi Mangione At Court Appearance. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired February 22, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

DAVID KOCIENIEWSKI, BLOOMBERG INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: But the Scotts were very accommodating to everyone and, you know, I think what said is this was about Christmas. It was right before Christmas. And you know, some people took their Christmas lights down as soon as it happened. You know, Christmas is supposed to be a time of joy and family and togetherness. And here's this unspeakable loss.

One woman I talked to, she had young kids. And the first day after the bombing, she just let her kids open the presents under the tree on the 22nd of December so she could get it over with, take the lights down and not have to deal with trying to balance joy with what was an awful tragedy.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Wow. What incredible recollections.

David Kocieniewski now with -- as a Bloomberg investigative journalist at the time with the "Detroit News," at the time of this tragedy. Thank you so much for your reflections.

KOCIENIEWSKI: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: The final episodes of the CNN Original Series, "LOCKERBIE, THE BOMBING OF PAN AM 103" airs Sunday, 9:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific only right here on CNN.

All right. Hello, again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

All right. Happening right now, President Trump is speaking at CPAC, the conservative political gathering in Maryland. His speech comes as he just made a major purge at the Pentagon. Last night, Trump fired the highest ranking military officer in the country. On top of that, thousands of Pentagon employees are expected to be fired next week.

CNN's Betsy Klein is joining us live from the White House.

Betsy, what can you tell us about what he's likely to say?

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE PRODUCER: Well, of course, those remarks are still ongoing, Fred, but so far President Trump is taking a victory lap to this very friendly audience at CPAC and really playing the greatest hits, talking about his 2024 victory.

And we should talk about some of the people that are in the audience because not only is it some of his top officials as cabinet secretaries and other high-ranking administration officials, it's also top congressional allies and also a number of leaders of the conservative movement across the globe, including the president of Poland and the president of Argentina.

So President Trump recognizing all of them moments ago as he began his remarks, but notably, he said, quote, he has a resounding mandate for dramatic change in Washington, and he is going to use it. So over the past few weeks, we have seen President Trump really reimagine the role of the U.S. and the world and our alliances. We have seen him dramatically expand the use of executive authority, really feeling like he has the judicial system in his favor to back that up and also take efforts to transform the scope and size of the government.

Now, this speech comes just moments after he met with President Duda on the sidelines of this conference. Really a key meeting for one of Ukraine's closest neighbors. They share a significant border. And it comes as tensions between the U.S. and Ukraine really reached a boiling point this week. Just yesterday, President Duda spoke with Zelenskyy and he said in a post to social media that Zelenskyy needs to remain committed to the course of calm and constructive cooperation with President Trump.

So certainly a lot discussed there, and we'll be watching President Trump's comments quite closely for what more he has to say -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. And, Betsy, what can you tell us about Trump's purge at the Pentagon and what people are bracing for?

KLEIN: That's exactly right. I mean, there are about 950,000 civilian employees at the Pentagon, and we are seeing the president and his team take steps to make sweeping cuts to that team. So to break this down, we are expecting a first tranche of about 5400 civilian employees to be fired over the course of the coming days. But broadly, we are expecting 5 percent to 8 percent of civilian employees to be let go. That is between 47,000 and 76,000 civilian Pentagon employees who will be removed from the workforce.

All of this an effort as President Trump has worked to cut defense spending, cut federal spending more broadly. Now, these employees are people who do things like research and analysis. They build things in support of our service members. They also are teachers who teach the children of service members at points abroad. So really a dramatic effort to slash federal spending here and also comes after a pause.

This was initially expected to be about 55,000 civilian federal employees, but they are now taking a step back to assess how those cuts would impact military preparedness. So a lot of sweeping quick changes, and we'll be watching this quite closely -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, Betsy Klein at the White House, thanks so much.

All right. Joining me right now to talk more about Trump's comments, what he's likely to say, and his first month in office, Margaret Talev. She is a senior contributor for Axios.

[15:05:03]

Margaret, great to see you. All right. So Trump, you know, has opened up his remarks talking about how great the polls are looking for him one month into his second term. You know, boasting of things and changes that have happened. And, you know, we know this also comes on the heels of his firing of the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Charles Brown, and so many others, six Pentagon officials including Admiral Lisa Franchetti, the first woman to lead the Navy. And then there are lawyers as well. What is the president's intention here?

MARGARET TALEV, SENIOR CONTRIBUTOR, AXIOS: To make rapid changes very quickly before Congress can decide whether they want to push back against this or not, and to do it in a way where he can drive the narrative and where what he's talking about is DEI hires. And of course, there are a number of officials at the Pentagon who may themselves be African-American or women, but were also hired because of their qualifications.

So this is a real remaking that involves both cutting jobs, reversing Joe Biden's appointments and nominees, and rebranding top leadership structures with loyalty in mind, as well as resume in mind. But I think what we're hearing him say in these early minutes of his opening remarks at CPAC does sort of set the tone for it. And, of course, he's talking to a group of true believers.

This is certainly a MAGA friendly audience and a JD Vance friendly audience as well. So it might not be the speech he would give to the general public a week before an election. But what he's saying is important because what he's saying is that he believes he has a massive mandate, that his win in November was a mandate for all of these things, not just for inflation or pocketbook issues or the border.

And in fact, in the opening moments of the CPAC comments, we heard him take a tour of the world, praise leaders in the audience who had supported him, and talk about his massive win. But we really didn't hear him concentrate on the inflation or border security. So I think that's noteworthy, Fred. He's talked in those opening moments about winning and dominating. He used the word dominating to describe his election win and his impact on Washington so far.

WHITFIELD: And then many GOP lawmakers are getting an earful, you know, from their constituents at town halls until they make their way back to Washington next week. They're not hearing a lot of positive support. They're hearing a lot of people were very upset and angry and curious about what the intentions of the president are and of DOGE through Elon Musk.

Do you see that these lawmakers, when they get back to Washington, will be comparing notes? Will that influence how they're interacting with the president, or will it even modify what has been their support of the president's agenda?

TALEV: Fred, it's a great question and an interesting phenomenon that we're all watching. Some lawmakers, of course, decided to scrap district town halls when they're home this weekend. But for those that are, we've seen some of these sort of critical results and real pushback. And the question is, what does the data really say? Because President Trump is right. The early national polling of U.S. adults, of Americans has actually been quite positive in terms of how they have responded to what they believe the first weeks of his presidency have been about.

And from focus groups I've watched, we've heard people say he's really getting in there. He's making a difference. He's taking action. He's cutting waste, fraud and abuse. So for people who believe that, many Americans are actually quite supportive of him.

What you're seeing at these town halls is something different. And I think it's going to take a little while for the dust to settle, for us to understand, are these a lot of Trump opponents and Democrats stacking town hall meetings, or is this a good representation of a cross-section of the public that's truly concerned about Pentagon jobs or aid jobs or government jobs that are a linchpin of their communities, of the economy of their communities truly being impacted?

Right now we see both. We see these positive overall poll results, and we see signs in these early town hall meetings that people are starting to look under the hood and say, hey, wait a minute. This is actually not what we wanted, but I think it's too soon to really understand where that balance is and how it will impact Republican politics. Remember, these Republicans are worried about getting primaried in their own contests, and what will happen if Trump turns against them.

So for the public to change their minds and attitudes will take a lot more than just one or two town hall meetings.

WHITFIELD: All right. We'll leave it there for now.

[15:10:01]

Margaret Talev, always great to see you. I left out your other title, professor. I haven't forgotten that. I love that. All right. Thank you.

All right. Coming up, frigid temperatures across much of the U.S. while the rest of the globe is warming up. CNN's Allison Chinchar joins us with details on what's behind this unusual winter weather. And the U.S. is bringing in about 420 million eggs from Turkey, the country, to help with the shortage. We'll explain straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:15:12]

WHITFIELD: Frigid temperatures are blasting much of the U.S. while the rest of the globe is warming up. CNN's Allison Chinchar joins us with more on this unusual winter

weather.

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: If you went outside at all earlier this week, you likely noticed how cold it was. But it wasn't just this week. If we go back to January of this year, you'll notice much of the lower 48 was below average for temperatures. But we were really one of the few. In fact, if you look elsewhere globally, a lot of other places were warm, quite warm to be exact, dealing with the warmest January on record.

But this can happen where you have one area that's dealing with extreme temperatures on one side and many other areas dealing with the opposite. So now let's take a look at earlier this week. This was all the cold air that surged across the lower 48. And you likely felt it, except maybe if you lived in Tucson or maybe Miami, where it actually didn't feel all that bad because this is what can often happen.

When we look at the more long term trends, look at this for February. All of these light blue dots indicate the top 10 coldest February to date. Dark blue top five. And all of these purple dots indicate the coldest February to date on record. So why is this happening now? Well, a lot of it has to do with the polar vortex. Normally a very strong polar vortex stays up north where it belongs, but sometimes it can elongate and stretch farther south, bringing with it incredibly cold temperatures.

But it also will affect the jet stream that surrounds it. And that impacts more of our day-to-day weather cycles. However, even though you get these brief cold blasts that will come and go, overall winter is actually warmer, and especially if you look at the eastern half of the country, it has warmed quite a bit over the last several decades by as much as five degrees warmer for all of those seasons.

Now, in the short term, we are also going to see temperatures warming back up as we head into next week. Finally, most of the U.S. is seeing those temperatures above average instead of on the opposite end of the spectrum. Take New York, for example, the high on Sunday, 43 degrees, jumping all the way up to 54 by the time we get to Tuesday. Atlanta looking at a high on Sunday of 58 degrees, but back into the 70s by the time we get to Tuesday.

WHITFIELD: Goodness. All right, Allison, thank you so much.

All right. This weekend, a solution to the country's egg scramble. Turkey. Not the bird. To help ease a huge egg shortage caused by the bird flu outbreak, the U.S. is bringing in about 420 million eggs from the country of Turkey. Prices here are so high a New York farmer took matters into his own hands giving away eggs for free.

John Dias from our affiliate WCBS has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN DIAS, WCBS REPORTER: It's a good thing she has her sense of humor and her thick winter gloves. Star Asia (PH) will need them. She's one of the dozens of Brooklyn residents waiting out in the cold Friday.

STAR ASIA, BROOKLYN RESIDENT: I feel like this is a Black Friday sale.

DIAS: But it's not a sale they're here for.

ASIA: I'm here to get these eggs.

DIAS: That's right. Free eggs. Thanks to two local farms and a butcher.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eggs, baby.

ABOU SOW, CEO, PRINCE ABOU'S BUTCHERY: It makes me so happy that we're able to do this.

DIAS: The CEO of Prince Abou's Butchery is spearheading the efforts.

SOW: Time like this we felt it was our duty and responsibility to just make eggs accessible.

DIAS: One hundred cartons of free eggs were given out in Bed-Stuy, Brooklyn.

SOW: Enjoy. Of course, of course.

DIAS: And 100 more in Astoria, Queens.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm feeling like I'm standing in line for a purpose to get free eggs because eggs are very spiked with the price right now.

DIAS: These two friends already know what they're making with their free eggs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chili and cornbread.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, wait, I'm coming over your house.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come on over. Come on over.

DIAS: Since egg prices skyrocketed, they've both been getting creative to feed their families.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Families still need to eat. We're using egg substitutes.

DIAS: Because of the bird flu causing a national shortage and inflation, eggs are selling in some places for more than $10 a dozen. Experts say we still have a while before they come down in price.

PAUL OSTER, CEO, BETTER QUALIFIED: Let's say we eradicated the bird flu today. By the time they go through the cleanup process, by the time new chickens are hatching and ready to lay eggs, you're talking about a couple of months.

(END VIDEOTAPE) WHITFIELD: All right. Thanks for that.

All right. Coming up, heated town halls. Frustrated voters are airing out their concerns to Congress members across the country over the Trump administration's massive government cuts. The big question, will they take those grievances with them back to Washington?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:24:12]

WHITFIELD: All right. Voters are taking to town halls to express outrage over DOGE cuts and perceived presidential overreach. While on recess, some lawmakers returned to their districts to find angry crowds.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How can we be represented by you if you don't have a voice in Congress?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We lost 10 percent of our workforce.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shut up and let him talk.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I will not, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can do it in a way that is humane.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: CNN's Gloria Pazmino is joining us now. I mean, quite a range of sentiments there.

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And, Fred, that's a really important point to mention that this is not just a Republican lawmakers that are getting an earful from their constituents. It's also Democrats, one here in New York, in the upstate region, was told that they were frustrated that Democrats in Congress were not doing enough to oppose the Trump administration.

[15:25:08]

As you said, a lot of concerns over budget cuts, federal layoffs, as well as the role that DOGE is playing in so many of these big decisions affecting not just the cuts, but also federal employment.

These town halls, we have been seeing them across the country here in New York, Wisconsin, Texas, California. This is really spread out as lawmakers go back home to their districts and hear from their constituents.

The big question here, Fred, is whether or not they're going to take some of those concerns back to the hill and back to perhaps letting Donald Trump know how some of these policies are being received in their districts. I want to take you over to Algoma, that's in Wisconsin, and take a

listen to what some of the voters had to say there to Congressman Glenn Grothman. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We felt like, you know, we need to start speaking out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'd like to know what you feel in this issue of an unelected person having so much power.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not going to sit back and just assume that it will all work out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAZMINO: A lot of concern both from Democrat voters and Republican voters over the role that Elon Musk is playing in this administration. That's what that woman there was talking about, someone who is not technically appointed or has been approved by Congress, having this amount of power. That is something that we have heard in many of these town halls.

Also in Georgia, Fred, we heard over this weekend voters reacting to Congressman McCormick, that the 7th Congressional District, where they gave him an earful also about these federal cuts, particularly layoffs that are affecting the CDC, which, as you know, Fred, is headquartered in Atlanta, not far from the district where he held this town hall.

So the question is, is this the beginning of more backlash and will it grow into anything significant? And will those lawmakers take those concerns back to Congress -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: Right. All right. Gloria Pazmino, thanks so much.

All right. This just into the newsroom, President Trump just defended the federal cuts at CPAC. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Department of Government Efficiency, you probably haven't heard of it, which is now waging war on government waste, fraud and abuse. And Elon is doing a great job. He's doing a great job. We love Elon, don't we? That guy, he's a character, with his -- with his son X. We love X. He's the only one kid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: And then we're learning that Elon Musk just posted on X that all federal employees will be required to send an e-mail that they did last week. I don't know if you understand that. I don't yet. Failure to respond will be taken as a resignation. We'll have to get a little more clarity on what that means. And this comes as mass firings are spreading across several federal

agencies. Just last night, the Pentagon announced its plan to eliminate 5 percent to 8 percent of its civilian positions, with 5400 workers expected to be fired next week.

CNN's Rafael Romo has been keeping an eye on all of these job cuts.

So, Rafael, what have you been hearing from CDC employees?

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, essentially, and if you allow me, what appears to be happening regarding the e-mail is that every employee has being asked to justify their employment. How and in what way it's not yet clear. But here in Georgia, people are speaking out for there were dozens of current and former CDC employees at a rally held at the Georgia state capitol, and many were holding signs with messages like CDC saves lives and CDC makes America great.

Some told us they fear the first round of CDC layoffs announced earlier this month may just be the beginning and are deeply worried the layoffs will mean that an institution seen around the world as a leader in public health may ultimately be unable to fight the next pandemic.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

EMAAD HASSAN, PUBLIC HEALTH ADVISER: This is a situation that's very scary for Americans and for America.

ROMO (voice-over): After 10 years of fighting diseases both here in America and countries like Egypt, Pakistan and South Sudan, Emaad Hassan suddenly found his name was on a list of people getting fired.

HASSAN: While I'm all for efficiency, if we do things the right way, if we go through a RIF, but these -- the sledgehammer approach of just creating a list, knowing that those lists could be wrong and not correcting those things, and then just, you know, firing people on a whim is unethical.

[15:30:03]

ROMO: Hasan was one of hundreds of CDC employees who were notified earlier this month that they were being laid off. They have made their voices heard outside the CDC headquarters earlier this week. And at the Georgia state capitol on Friday.

SONYA ARUNDAR, HEALTH COMMUNICATOR: Valentine's Day massacre.

ROMO: Sonya Arundar, a health communicator who was hired by the CDC in December, was also among those impacted by the layoffs announced on February 14th. Poor performance, she says, was the reason she was given.

ARUNDAR: I was so new that I didn't have a performance review yet, even though my manager seemed to be very pleased with my work. But I do know two people personally who did have good performance reviews, who were also fired in the same way. ROMO: The men in charge of downsizing the government says voters gave

President Donald Trump a mandate.

ELON MUSK, DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY: The people voted for major government reform, and that's what people are going to get.

ROMO: Democratic lawmakers are asking Georgia's Republican leadership to intervene.

SAIRA DRAPER (D), GEORGE STATE REPRESENTATIVE: What we are asking them to do is put partisanship aside, put politics aside, and maybe even set their fears aside. And stand up and speak out for the Georgians that need their support right now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROMO (on-camera): That doesn't seem likely. Georgia Governor Brian Kemp told "Politico" the day after the CDC layoffs were announced that, in his opinion, quote, "Government can stand a little right sizing." It's a policy that he has pursued during his years in office, pushing to limit the growth of the state government workforce.

That comment, Fred, is not sitting very well with the employees that we talked to.

WHITFIELD: OK, so here's a little bit more clarity on the X tweet, or whatever we want to call it these days, coming from Elon Musk saying, consistent with President Donald Trump, his instructions, all federal employees will shortly receive an e-mail requesting to understand what they got done last week.

It's not great grammar, but you think it means people have to send in an e-mail, essentially justifying their employment.

ROMO: So before getting hired, they go through an interview process. Right? And there's a justification for a federal employee for being there, at least in the eyes of their supervisors. It appears, and based on the conversations that I had at the rally at the Capitol yesterday, that now, maybe not everybody but a large number of employees, they have to justify again why they're there.

And I think that's what that's talking about. Sending a notification, an e-mail, a letter saying this is what I do and this is why I need to remain employed. Now there's a lot of confusion.

WHITFIELD: I was to say this underscores the confusion.

ROMO: Where this information is coming from, it's just, just there's a lot of fear, confusion and people don't know who to turn to.

WHITFIELD: Right. Because people are not accustomed to having to justify their employment by sending here's -- these are my pluses.

ROMO: Right.

WHITFIELD: You know, and then hoping that that is going to save them with their job, their employment.

ROMO: Exactly.

WHITFIELD: That's where we are.

ROMO: Yes.

WHITFIELD: OK. Rafael Romo, thanks for the clarity.

ROMO: Of course.

WHITFIELD: Thank you. And the interpretation.

All right. Coming up, massive crowds gathering outside court to support Luigi Mangione, the man accused of killing UnitedHealthcare CEO. Will this show of support impact his case?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:38:13]

WHITFIELD: All right. We've been letting you know that President Trump is at the CPAC in Maryland. And just moments ago, he spoke about the Russia-Ukraine talks. And he says they are close to a deal. Let's listen.

TRUMP: I've spoken to President Putin, and I think that thing is going to end. But it's got to end. It's a horrible, horrible thing to watch. I'm dealing with President Zelenskyy. I'm dealing with President Putin. I'm trying to get the money back that or secured because, you know, Europe has given $100 billion. The United States has given $350 billion. Because we had a stupid, incompetent president and administration. 350.

But here's worse. Europe gave it in the form of a loan. They get their money back. We gave it in the form of nothing. So I want them to give us something for all of the money that we put up. And I'm going to try and get the war settled, and I'm going to try and get all that debt ended. So we're asking for rare earth and oil, anything we can get. But we feel so stupid. Here's Europe and you know, it affects Europe. It doesn't really affect us. Except we don't like to see two things. Number one, how Biden got us into this thing in the first place. Terrible.

But why is it that he didn't ask for equalization? Europe should put up more money than us. But even if you said the same thing, how come we went so far out front? And he didn't know that Europe gets his money back? They did it in the form of a loan. We don't get our money back. We get nothing. So we're getting our money back. We're going to get our money back because it's not, it's not fair.

[15:40:04]

It's just not fair. And we will see. But I think we're pretty close to a deal. And we better be close to a deal, because that has been a horrible situation. It would have never happened if I were president. And by the way, October 7th --

WHITFIELD: All right. That's President Trump there at CPAC there in Maryland. We'll continue to monitor his comments there. Meantime, Elon Musk's growing influence inside the U.S. government now includes his extensive personal security detail. Sources tell CNN members of the team have been deputized by the U.S. Marshal's service.

Brian Todd is on the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the same stage where he confidently brandished a chainsaw to symbolize how he slashed jobs and costs in the federal government --

MUSK: This is the chainsaw for bureaucracy.

TODD: -- the world's richest person responded to a comment from his interviewer that his security detail is, quote, "enormous."

MUSK: Not that enormous. Maybe it should be bigger, I don't know.

TODD: Whether it gets bigger or not, Elon Musk's security detail will seemingly now have more access. Members of Musk's detail, private employees, have been deputized by the U.S. Marshal Service, giving them some rights and protections of federal law enforcement agents.

That's according to new reporting from CNN's Hannah Rabinowitz and Whitney Wild, citing three law enforcement officials familiar with the matter.

What does this mean for Musk's security agents?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: They can carry guns on federal property, on airplanes. It means they can take enforcement action, including using those firearms against someone who is perceived as a threat. It gives them a lot of authority that the security details around other billionaires just don't get.

TRUMP: Come here.

TODD: CNN sources say some people close to the Trump White House have been surprised by the scale of Musk's security detail since he became a more regular presence in President Trump's orbit last year. They say Musk's detail rivaled only the president's own detail.

JONATHAN WACKROW, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Many have law enforcement or military backgrounds. They've gone to specialized schools for executive protection, for driving, for medical care, for firearms proficiency.

TODD: A person with direct knowledge of Elon Musk's comments tells CNN, Musk has become increasingly concerned with his security since Trump took office, and has told those around him that death threats against him have increased.

MUSK: Like I don't actually have a death wish I think.

WACKROW: Now put him into this new role, this hybrid government role where he is basically going through and changing people's lives, that is going to, you know, really agitate individuals, all necessitating an increased level of protection around Elon Musk.

TODD: CNN's John Miller says one concern going forward is making sure Musk's security team doesn't get into a dangerous, confusing situation involving the Secret Service, whenever Musk is in close proximity to the president.

MILLER: You have the Secret Service there, and something kicks off. Somebody hears a shot. Something comes from the crowd. How do they deconflict with the Secret Service? It's not a good situation when two different teams who may not have radio communications or seamless communications, are both pulling out weapons at a time of chaos.

TODD (on-camera): One of CNN's sources said with the new designations of Musk's security team, if something does go awry, it means the Marshal Service could be held legally liable. CNN has reached out to the Marshal Service and to the Justice Department for comment.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:48:13]

WHITFIELD: All right. We're getting new details about the ongoing legal journey of Luigi Mangione. The 26-year-old's attorneys are asking for more time to evaluate the discovery, with his next hearing set for June 26th. Mangione was back in court yesterday for the first time in months, charged in the killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO, Brian Thompson. Mangione's appearance leading many of his supporters to actually gather outside, as you see right there.

For more on this case, I'm joined now by CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson.

Joey, welcome to you. So Mangione's attorney is challenging the use of shackles and the bulletproof vest on her client during these court appearances. What is she, you know, saying is the inference here? Why it's problematic in her view?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Fredricka, so to that issue, right, there's something called, as we know, the presumption of innocence. And with that presumption, you're not guilty yet. Now, the evidence may seem overwhelming. We all saw certainly the video, which was very compelling with respect to the assassination, quite frankly. There's also other evidence, which is corroborative of him having done that, meaning supporting of him doing that, with respect to DNA evidence, with regard to a manifesto, with respect to the gun, with regard to the backpack, I could continue. But the bottom line is that you don't ever want your client

prejudiced. And when your client shows up in shackles, certainly looks to be guilty, when their feet are chained and they're, you know, they're in cuffs certainly looks to be guilty. And so I think the perception that the public has who will ultimately judge him becomes problematic. And so his attorney is fighting to humanize him in the eyes of the public because eventually, if it goes to trial, Fredricka, there will be a jury impaneled, and that jury will have to make a determination as to guilt or innocence.

[15:50:06]

So that's what the argument is about with regard to, hey, judge, can you let the shackles off at least for purposes of court?

WHITFIELD: And when does a judge make a decision on something like that?

JACKSON: You know, Fredricka, so at this point it's not so problematic because there's not a jury impaneled, right? I mean, the other side of the argument that I did not give you, which is the security issue, right? There's certainly a security risk. You have people who are responsible for his safety. That is law enforcement. They want to ensure he's safe. They want to ensure he doesn't flee. They want to ensure members of the public do nothing to him.

But certainly before a trial jury, I don't think we'll see him in shackles. We'll see him in a suit, looking his very best. And if there are shackles, they will be off when the jury comes in. When the jury goes out, they'll be put back on. When the jury comes in, they'll be off. So it's really a perception issue. But in trials like this and every trial, certainly the presumption of innocence means you can't look at a person in chains and say, oh, they must be innocent.

They must have done something. And that's really the core of the argument. But at trial, I think when we get there, we're not there yet, it will be a lot different.

WHITFIELD: OK. And now what about all these supporters gathered outside the courthouse? At what point might it impact proceedings?

JACKSON: You know, I think it's impacted it already. This is a very unique case and a very unique circumstance, right? I referred earlier to that actual tape where we see him essentially assassinating the CEO, the chief executive officer. And still he has all these free Luigi people writing him letters and sending him e-mails and creating trinkets and saying the healthcare industry is corrupt and he should be released immediately.

And so, you know, that's a really different dynamic in this case. So you see that show of support. The issue really isn't going to be the show of support that we see now. It's going to be, does it filter on to the jury because there's something very briefly, Fredricka, called jury nullification. And what that means in English is even if you committed the crime, the jury could be so predisposed to saying, hey, you know what? We're going to give you a pass for whatever reason. In this case, the issue of people not liking the healthcare industry,

believing it's for profit, believing it's not protecting themselves and their families, does the jury give him a pass? That certainly could occur. Yes, it's true that a jury could really get the information in terms of the evidence, think you're guilty, but set you free anyway. That's known as jury nullification. And that's big in this case. People love him. It's just amazing to see and certainly unprecedented.

WHITFIELD: His attorney is also claiming that there are, and I'm quoting now, "very serious issues," end quote, with some of the evidence in the case. To what degree?

JACKSON: So that remains to be seen. What happens now in terms of going back to yesterday, which is a status conference, you are entitled when you're defending someone to all the evidence. It's called discovery. Whatever that evidence may be. Is it DNA evidence? Is it the manifesto? Is it police reports? Is it the timeline? Is it surveillance? You can evaluate all of that. And when you evaluate that, you as an attorney go through everything.

What then happens, Fredricka, is you then start to assess the information and make certain challenges with respect to the evidence, how it was gathered, whether or not there was probable cause, were his rights violated, et cetera. The attorneys will file what are called pretrial motions. The judge set a deadline for that for April. Thereafter, the judge will review those motions. The prosecutor will respond. And if there are issues, it's not like things don't, you know, get thrown out of court.

There's a hearing. And then after a hearing, a judge will make a determination as to whether or not he was treated fairly, whether evidence will be admitted before the jury so the jury could see or precluded or excluded such that the jury does not. So we're not there yet. But that's part and parcel of the process.

WHITFIELD: OK. All right. I want to turn to another case now, high- profile case as well. The Los Angeles district attorney now urging a judge to deny the request by Eric and Lyle Menendez for a new trial. They were both famously convicted of killing their parents back in 1989. But new evidence pointing to abuse by their father. What's your reaction to the D.A.'s decision who seems to be questioning, you know, the veracity of that new evidence?

JACKSON: You know, so I get it. But I think that what we have to do is evaluate what the new prosecutor is saying, right? The former prosecutor, who was since voted out, said, hey, you know what, I want to get you guys released early. That's my recommendation. Guess what? They were voted out. We have a new sheriff in town. That prosecutor has an obligation to go through everything.

Now, with that prosecutor has said very clearly is that I do not support their efforts for a new trial. That's only one issue. The other issue, though, Fredricka, is, what's called a resentencing. Resentencing means, right, supporting a new trial means you get to do it all over again and new evidence gets to be admitted. That prosecutor saying, I'm not doing that again.

[15:55:04]

However, the prosecutor hasn't weighed in on the issue of resentencing. It's certainly possible that this prosecutor, although saying you're not getting a new trial, that's my recommendation. That's what I'm telling the judge could say. I support their resentencing. They've been in for over 30 years. A judge can resentence if they get that support, right, and they could be released. And so we're not there as to that question. So it's important when we're talking about this case to say that the prosecutor only said you're not getting a new trial.

The prosecutor did not say that I would not support resentencing, and if the prosecutor supports that, right, they can get out.

WHITFIELD: Fascinating.

JACKSON: The other issue very briefly, Fredricka, is the governor --

WHITFIELD: Uh-oh, we got five seconds.

JACKSON: The governor could say clemency and that would end everything.

WHITFIELD: OK. You did it in less than five.

Joey Jackson, thank you so much. Great to see you.

JACKSON: Of course.

WHITFIELD: I'm Fredricka Whitfield. "SMERCONISH" starts next.

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