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President Trump Gives Wide-Ranging Speech At CPAC; GOP Lawmakers Questioned, Booed At Town Hall Over Trump And DOGE; Fired: Chairman Of Joint Chiefs, Navy Chief, Air Force Vice Chief; Trump Admin Plans To Fire 5 Percent to 8 Percent Of Military's Civilian Workforce; Musk Asks Fed Employees To Give Proof Of Work Or Be Dismissed; GOP Sen. Tillis: "Vladimir Putin Is A Liar" and "Murderer"; Pope In "Critical Condition" Following Respiratory Crisis; Crowds Gather To Support Murder Suspect Mangione At Court Appearance. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired February 22, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:00:31]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jessica Dean in New York.

And we are following breaking news tonight involving Pope Francis' health, including new complications as he remains hospitalized.

The Vatican is offering new details. We're going to go through all of them with a doctor. That is coming up in just a few moments.

But first, President Donald Trump speaking this afternoon in Maryland at CPAC, the annual conservative Conference touching on a litany of topics including the war in Gaza, the war in Ukraine, immigration, energy, tariffs.

CNN's Betsy Klein is at the White House she joins us now with more.

Betsy, President Trump also criticizing government workers who have been doing their jobs remotely. This comes, of course, as Elon Musk issues another ultimatum on X. What more can you tell us about that?

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE PRODUCER: Well, Jessica, President Trump taking a victory lap at CPAC to a friendly group of supporters and longtime allies, as well as leaders of the conservative movement from across the globe.

But in his remarks, he said that he had a resounding movement for dramatic change in Washington. And we have seen him take steps toward really transforming the size and the scope of the federal government, including the federal workforce.

He has tasked Elon Musk and his so-called Department of Government Efficiency with finding ways to slash federal spending and transform the federal workforce. And as Trump was speaking, we heard from Elon Musk a new ultimatum.

Musk saying in a post on social media, quote, "consistent with President Trump's instructions, all federal employees will shortly receive an email requesting to understand what they got done last week. Failure to respond, Musk said, will be taken as a resignation.

Now, during his remarks at CPAC, President Trump also took aim at federal employees who have been working remotely. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If they don't report for work, we're firing them. In other words, you have to go to office, right? Right. Look at her.

If you don't report to work, you know that's another scam. You know, who the hell -- if I'm staying home, I'm going to, let's see. My golf handicap would get down to very low number. You -- you'd be shocked if I told you the real number, but I would be so good I'd try and get on tour. I'd get -- I would be so good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KLEIN: Now, of course, President Trump, we should note, worked remotely himself over the past few days. Four out of the last eight days he spent on a golf course at one of his Florida properties.

But Jess, taken together, a dramatic effort to reshape the federal workforce and install workers that may be more loyal to Trump.

DEAN: Right. And we are seeing that across all government agencies.

You also just heard from the press secretary, Betsy, what did she say?

KLEIN: Yes, we heard from Karoline Leavitt just moments ago. She said that Mike Waltz, the national security advisor, is working quote, "around the clock" this weekend on the Russia-Ukraine conflict. She also said that President Trump has been briefed on Pope Francis, who, of course, is in critical condition, according to the Vatican. She said that the White House sends their thoughts and prayers to the Pope.

Now, we should note that the president met Pope Francis back in 2017 during his first term, the Pope issued congratulations and blessings to Trump as he took his oath of office just last month. But then subsequently issued criticism of Trump in a letter to American bishops and that mass deportation policy, Jessica.

DEAN: All right. Betsy Klein at the White House, thank you so much for that.

Joining us now, politics reporter for Semafor Dave Weigel, and chief Washington correspondent for Puck News, Leigh Ann Caldwell. It's great to have both of you here. Dave, I want to start first with you. The president, speaking to some

of his most ardent fans this afternoon, giving them a lot of red meat there. Betsy went through some of the things he was talking about. I'm curious what stood out to you.

DAVE WEIGEL, POLITICS REPORTER, SEMAFOR: Well, he Was preceded By a real worship fest from Republicans in and outside his administration. Conservatives from America and from around the world.

The theme of CPAC which I think you picked up in that speech was that he was having such success transforming the government in a generational way, that it was already ready to be exported to Germany, to the U.K., to Italy where it's already happening to an extent, to Brazil.

[17:04:50]

WEIGEL: And this is the culmination of him coming not just to CPAC for 12 years, but describing the destruction of the administrative state for quite a long time.

That what was really exciting to people at CPAC, not as much of an ovation as Trump got, but was the appearance of Elon Musk describing in his -- in his way with a chainsaw, describing the way they were going through the administrative state, through branches of government, firing people even though courts were trying to slow them down.

DEAN: And Leigh Ann, look, we know that CPAC has been a haven for Trump for years, as Dave was just talking about. But if you zoom out a little bit, the average American probably not poking their head, watching CPAC on a Saturday afternoon. They're probably out running errands, doing other things on their weekend.

The question now becomes, as Trump methodically moves through this -- his efforts to reshape the federal government and reshape America's place in the world, how the average American who probably, let's say, some of them who, you know, who even voted for him but aren't going to pay attention to every single thing.

How are they starting to see this? And is this starting to trickle down to their daily lives in any way?

LEIGH ANN CALDWELL, CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, PUCK NEWS: Yes. Well, it's funny you mentioned CPAC and Dave would probably know better than I would, but it used to be a conservative conference, mostly for young people, which it largely still is. But for libertarian-minded Republicans, now the fact that CPAC is so enthralled and devoted to Donald Trump is just another example of how the Republican Party has shifted over the years and become in the name of Donald Trump, really.

But as far as people beyond the activist group and the activist base of the Republican Party like CPAC, which are those hardcore supporters, it's absolutely starting to have an impact. We're seeing that in some of the polling. CNN had a poll out just this

week where Donald Trump's poll numbers have decreased a little bit since he came into office. And also people think that he is using too much of his executive power for some of these, some of these actions.

Now, just completely anecdotal, which I think is fascinating is, you know, this is not newsworthy but it is an example of what is happening across the country. A very close friend of mine who lives in Florida, who is not political, who asked me just two weeks ago what DOGE was. Just yesterday texted me and said that her entire book club was talking about Elon Musk, about cuts to the federal government and about the -- you know, the chainsaw that Elon Musk and Donald Trump is taking on the federal government.

So there's some like some evidence in polling that this is starting to have an impact. And then there's also anecdotal evidence as well.

And you can also see that the Democratic base, Democratic activists, are absolutely enraged and are finally waking up after several months of despondency and demanding that their elected officials do something.

DEAN: And, Dave, you mentioned the chainsaw. Leigh Ann mentioning just that imagery as well that is now becoming so closely aligned with what Elon Musk and Trump are doing with the federal government. And it is about it breaking through to Americans.

The question becomes, you know, to kind of continue on Leigh Ann's point is, is what will they make of it, right? And will they see this as a positive thing, or will they see this as a negative thing.

WEIGEL: For Trump that's not a gigantic concern. Yes, he will talk about running for a third term. Yes. There was one group at CPAC that rented a room that was campaigning for him for a third term.

But his staff is operating like he is a second term president who's not going to run again, who may or may not set up J.D. Vance to replace him. And he's trying to achieve things that he has been talking about again for years.

There's a -- there's a story line, even if it's not popular at the moment, a story line Republicans tell about the deep state and that is that it's very broadly defined. But basically it is a federal government that is mostly staffed by liberals who didn't vote for Donald Trump. You can look at their political donations, you can look at what media they subscribe to, et cetera.

And what DOGE is trying to do with Trump's blessing on everything is shrink that liberal state and replace it. Not just replace the staffers, but destroy some of these organizations, period so that progressive ideas about gender, about reproductive rights, et cetera, that they just can't be implemented by another president.

So when Trump goes, if he has his four years, he signs off in three -- three years, 11 months, and a little bit less than that, Democrats wouldn't be able to rebuild what they had before Trump was there. That's really the promise and the popularity of this message at CPAC.

[17:09:45]

DEAN: And then the other -- another piece of this, Leigh Ann, in addition to what Trump and his administration want to do to the federal government, there is the economy. And that is the thing that Americans said overwhelmingly that they are the most concerned about.

That the cost of living in America is too high, and they want somebody, and in this case, they believe it's Donald Trump, to bring it down. He, of course, has reiterated his idea of using tariffs to bring in revenue to the United States.

The CNN polling that you noted showed 49 percent of Americans don't agree with that. Economists have warned it will hurt U.S. consumers.

You know, how much of this, Leigh Ann, do you think that the American people are willing to go along with in terms of, you know, they are very focused on those prices coming down? And if these tariffs do end up rising prices, what does that mean for Trump politically?

CALDWELL; Well, as Dave mentioned, there's a very likely chance that he won't run for re-election or for a third term in four years. Of course, the constitution says that he cannot, or that he's term limited for two terms.

but politically speaking, he doesn't really have to face any sort of political consequences. But the people that do have to face those political consequences are Republican-elected officials up and down the ballot, and they are going to be up in two years in the midterm elections. There's obviously some off year elections that are going to happen next year, too, at the state government and state governments.

But those are the people who have to be absolutely concerned about the political impact, especially when it comes to the economy. Inflation rose again just last month.

Now, Donald Trump has only been in office for a month. So he didn't you know -- that wasn't necessarily can be blamed on him. But Democrats are homing in on the fact that the economy and inflation -- inflation are things that Donald Trump is not necessarily focused on right now.

The argument is, they say, that Donald Trump won because of the economy. And that he's not doing what Americans want him to do. So you can be sure that this is going to be a campaign issue, especially if prices continue to rise or they don't come down, or if there are tariffs that are put in place, which Donald Trump admits could cause some, what he says, short-term gain -- or short-term pain.

DEAN: Yes. All right. Dave and Leigh Ann stay with us, we're going to take a quick break. We're going to come back in just a moment.

Still ahead, a majority of Americans believe the president is going too far with his use of executive actions. This as Republican lawmakers are feeling some pressure from voters in their home districts. We're going to get into that.

And a concerning update on the Pope's health. The Vatican says he's now in critical condition following a respiratory crisis this morning, we'll talk with a doctor ahead about what that actually means.

Stay with us.

[17:12:51]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: New polling out this week from CNN showing President Trump's approval rating has dropped since taking office, with 52 percent of Americans disapproving of his job performance so far. Now, that's still higher than any point during his first term in office.

Still though, there are signs his support is slipping. 62 percent of Americans think the president has not gone far enough to lower prices, something he repeatedly promised to do on the campaign trail.

And it's not just the economy. A majority of Americans, 52 percent, believe the president is going too far with his use of executive actions.

Our panel is back with us. Dave and Leigh Ann, thanks for sticking around.

Dave, we are starting to see some anger, some discontent from voters, even in districts that did vote for Trump. I want to show a clip from this town hall in Georgia with a Republican congressman named Rich McCormick that happened earlier this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's not reasonable is taking this chainsaw approach which they obviously admit when they fired these people and then decided oh, we fired the wrong people.

REP. RICH MCCORMICK (R-GA): My understanding is when you say you had this many employees that you have to cut, that organization decides who they're going to cut. Now, they may make -- they may --

REP. GLENN GROTHMAN (R-WI): I think if they understood more what was going on, they would like him. They just don't believe the degree to which he's looking out for the average guy which is what he's trying to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: And that was Congressman Grothman there at the end.

Dave, These Republicans are obviously going back to their districts. Do you think what they're saying -- first of all, do you think that they are surprised that they're getting these responses?

And second of all, do you think that what they're saying is enough to kind of assuage concerns from the voters about things like Social Security, Medicare, other issues that are important to them?

WEIGEL: Well, that's the big question, is what comes up in the reconciliation vote? The House has not had to take any hard votes yet. These are not members. These are from very safe -- safe, safe districts with a couple of blue dots. These are not members who look at reelection next year and are worried about it.

DEAN: Right.

WEIGEL: But are there five or six Republicans or less, really, three would do it, who are worried enough about touching some Social Security or some spending that's popular that they -- that they're panicking at this moment in a couple of months.

[17:19:42]

WEIGEL: They're not there yet. The extent they're surprised is that these organizations that were built up eight years ago as the first response to Donald Trump from progressives, from liberals, that they looked pretty dormant during the period between the election and the inauguration, that they looked pretty dormant in the first weeks of DOGE, that the protests could be minimized, actually, Elon Musk did this at CPAC.

He said that he was wondering if the left was even real, because he was looking at photos of protests and thought the media was lying, that there almost was nobody there.

That is how a lot of conservatives are going to look at these protests, that there are some suburban liberals maybe come driving in from their college town or their retirement town and yelling at a congressman. They're not going to outnumber them when they vote.

But really, one of these was Wisconsin. There's going to be an election April 1st in Wisconsin for a state supreme court seat and Democrats are already talking about that. Republicans, too.

Elon is spending money as a place to say, if we win this, then Republicans should look at those tough votes on spending and get worried because voters are not giving them the mandate to do it.

DEAN: Yes.

Leigh Ann, what are you thinking as you're -- as you're kind of seeing these things start to percolate? I mean, I think back to health care, back in whatever -- 2009, 2010 with the town halls. Obviously, this is not that. But that's where you started to kind of see these things -- these build -- these things building a little bit.

CALDWELL: Yes. It's funny you bring that up, actually. I've been talking to some Democrats this week who also compare it to that. Actually, in the attempt to -- for Republicans to repeal the ACA in 2017 during Trump's first term, and how some of the town halls erupted at that moment.

Now, they say they're not there yet, but it could happen. So this is also just very much the beginning of what we know Donald Trump is doing.

As Dave mentioned, there's also the congressional component too. The House is going to vote as early as this week on a budget. It's just a framework, but it's a framework that calls for at least $1.5 trillion worth of cuts.

And it's very, very hard to imagine Republicans admit that they can reach that level of budget cuts without touching government programs that people rely on, such as Medicaid, SNAP -- very popular programs.

Remember, Medicaid provides health and health coverage for a fifth of the country. Now, it depends on state to state, but that's a lot of people that could be impacted.

And so the political consequences and reactions, we're just at the very beginning phase of this.

And I wrote earlier this week how Republicans are quietly -- they're reluctant to criticize or call out the president or Elon Musk publicly -- but very quietly, they are talking about they're working with the administration. They're calling cabinet secretaries and officials and telling them about the impacts of these cuts in their own districts and trying to steer them away from impacting their districts.

So, there is already a little bit of panicking that is happening among Republicans. You know, we'll see where this goes. Jessica.

DEAN: Yes, I mean, you make a good point. We're one month in, so we have lots of time left to see where it goes.

Dave, I do want to ask you, too, about the Elon of it all. He's come up multiple times in our conversation just in the last few minutes. He is omnipresent in this administration.

Our polling that came out did do a little bit on this, and it found that 54 percent of Americans think it's a bad thing for him to have a role in the administration.

Of course, Trump has not been shy about emboldening Musk and really standing behind him. They did that joint interview together. What do you think of all of this, Dave?

WEIGEL: Well, I'd combine that polling with the polling you showed earlier. How many voters who voted for Trump in the last election wanted him to turn the clock back to 2019 pre-COVID? Those prices, that level of stability in areas, people's lives.

And how many voted for the Elon version of things which Elon did campaign on in Pennsylvania to cut back the government, to get rid of U.S. aid, to get rid of the Department of Education.

Some of those ideas were unpopular, and they were not the focus of what Trump is running on. He's done -- I wouldn't say the lowest hanging fruit, but the first month of executive orders include a lot of things that the Republicans knew would be popular, knew would be divisive among Democrats -- women's sports. They knew it was a political winner, for example.

The Elon part of this, that shrinking the government down risks -- kind of reverse what Republicans had a year ago when Democrats that Leigh Ann talks to -- never get tired talking about this. They all voted against infrastructure spending and Democratic spending, but they took credit for projects in their districts.

What is the -- what happens? What kind of backlash happens if things are getting cut back? If in Rich McCormick district has people being fired from CDC, if it's green energy starts that that Biden was going to fund that, where the funding gets pulled back and hundreds of jobs don't exist.

[17:24:52]

WEIGEL: Those sort of things might add up specifically in these districts that members of Congress might go back and not have things to brag about in the economy.

They can't go back and brag about eggs now. Their answer is, we need more time to fix it. But what are the achievements going to be that are improving people's lives?

We might, because of all these layoffs, might have a pretty weak employment number next month. March unemployment number doesn't mean much for the midterms, but what are they going to go back and say are the benefits of the way Elon has been cutting the government versus the ideological goal that Elon has? Not every Trump voter had that goal.

DEAN: Yes. No. And look, you know, you have to remember too, that a lot of these federal jobs are not in Washington, D.C. They are spread out --

WEIGEL: Right.

DEAN: -- across the country. And to your point, we're going to have to wait and see kind of how that settles everywhere.

Dave Weigel and Leigh Ann Caldwell, thank you so much to both of you. I really appreciate it.

WEIGEL: Thank you.

DEAN: Still ahead, a major purge at the Pentagon as President Trump fires the highest-ranking military officer in the country with no explanation. That move is causing major concern.

We're going to be joined by former Trump official John Bolton to talk about that ahead.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

[17:25:53]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [17:30:19]

DEAN: In a major Friday night shakeup at the Pentagon, President Trump removed the military's top U.S. general last night, Joint Chiefs of Staff, C.Q. Brown. Moments later, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth dismissed both the chief of the U.S. Navy and vice chief of the Air Force.

On top of those leadership cuts, the Trump administration said it would fire up to 8 percent of the military's civilian workforce starting next week, and that could number tens of thousands of people.

Joining us now, former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations and former Trump national security advisor, John Bolton.

Ambassador Bolton, thanks so much for being here with us.

I, first, just want to get your reaction to these firings of the top military leaders and what you think that does.

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N. & FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: Well, if -- if we understand the reasons correctly, and I think we do, it's a big mistake.

You know, we've -- one of our great national successes has been civilian control over the military. It's really protected us from a lot of abuses that many other democratic societies have faced.

But the corollary to civilian control over the military is not to politicize the military. And I think these firings were because of DEI and association with the Biden administration.

Don't get me wrong. I'd throw out the whole superstructure of DEI as a -- as a way of looking at how to hire people. But in the military, you have to assume that particularly high-ranking officers will obey orders.

And if they don't obey orders, then then you have a different circumstance. But here they're assuming that because C.Q. Brown and others obeyed orders in the Biden administration that they will disobey orders to the contrary in the Trump administration.

Which I believe, certainly at a minimis, is not yet proven. So by dismissing them simply because they followed orders from Trump's predecessor, that is introducing a political factor with no cause for firing these people that will cause enormous problems throughout the military morale and recruitment that we can't even calculate at this point.

DEAN: Yes, I mean, so much of -- of the Trump administration's M.O. has been uncertainty. And that they -- they see that as a strength.

But to your point, something like the military, certainty is -- is important and -- and command -- and control is important.

BOLTON: Well, I would distinguish between the military part of the government and the civilian part of the government.

DEAN: Right.

BOLTON: I think when you mess with the military, you're taking a huge risk with our national security. Officers -- we don't ask military officers or enlisted personnel what their opinions are politically before we give them orders.

And -- and if -- if it's a question of saying, well, because this particular officer followed orders in a prior administration we don't like, and therefore we're going to take him out of service, that tells every other officer that that the critical tradition of following orders, whether you agree with them or not, is now in question.

I mean, it's exactly the opposite effect of what the new administration should be seeking, which is to say, look, we've got different policies and you're going to follow them, right?

I think the - the -- the military's overwhelming response would be, yes, sir. And if it's not, then there's grounds to remove them.

DEAN: I do want to ask you also, too, about this, this post from -- or this, this note from Elon Musk that just went out to federal workers across the U.S. government saying that they need to list five things they did that week or they'll -- if they don't, they could be fired.

I'm just curious, what about people with a security clearance, for example? How practical is this for people potentially in the agency you used to head up?

BOLTON: Well, I think, for most federal workers, they ought to be able to say what they've been able to do. I don't think the problem with the Musk approach is reducing the size of the federal workforce. I think that's long overdue.

I think it's the undisciplined way they're going about it, because they clearly don't know much about the government. There's nothing wrong with that. But they need to learn it before they make changes in it.

And we've already seen, I mean, the worst example probably to date is firing people in the Energy Department's Nuclear Security Agency, that -- that helps protect our nuclear weapons program and guards against nuclear accidents. They've now had to rehire these people.

It just shows that the that the DOGE people who went after those employees at energy had no idea what they were doing. That is the lack of discipline. Frankly, again, this will come back to haunt Trump.

[17:35:04]

DEAN: I want to ask you, too, about Ukraine and what's going on in these negotiations.

On Friday, President Trump did admit that Russia invaded Ukraine. But today, CNN has seen a draft U.S. resolution to the U.N. marking the anniversary of the invasion in two days.

It does not condemn Russia as the aggressor or acknowledge Ukraine's territorial integrity. Do you see that as a win for Putin?

BOLTON: Well, it's absolutely a win for Putin. Every time the Trump administration does this, refusing to acknowledge that Russia is the aggressor, saying that really Ukraine started it because they wanted to join NATO, which has been a U.S. position since at least 2008.

And -- and trying to make these other changes, it just makes Putin's task in, in the coming negotiations that much easier. The only complaint the Kremlin has at this point with Trump is they haven't asked him to do more. Maybe that's coming.

DEAN: I do want to play a moment from earlier this week. This is Republican Senator Thom Tillis. He gave a fiery speech on the Senate floor.

Let's listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): I support President Trump and I believe that most of his policies on national security are right. I believe his instincts are pretty good.

But what I'm telling you, whoever believes that there is any space for Vladimir Putin in the future of a stable globe, better go to Ukraine. They better go to Europe.

Vladimir Putin is a liar, a murderer, and responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Ambassador, why do you think President Trump can't bring himself to say those things?

BOLTON: Well, I think Trump sees international relations as basically personal. People have to keep in mind, and I know this is hard, but Trump has no philosophy. He doesn't do grand strategy. He doesn't do policy, as we normally understand that.

He has said publicly that he thinks if he has good relations with the head of state like Vladimir Putin, then the U.S. has good relations with Russia. Now personal relations are always important. But Vladimir Putin is -- is as cold blooded a political leader as I've ever seen.

He knows what he thinks Russia's national interests are, and he's going to manipulate Trump until he gets him.

I don't think Trump has the slightest idea what's going on. He thinks he and Vladimir Putin are friends, which must cause a chuckle in the Kremlin.

DEAN: Just quickly before we go, Secretary of State Marco Rubio described this mineral rights proposal as a security guarantee for Ukraine. I just want to get your thoughts on that.

BOLTON: Well, I have no objection to trying to get arrangements with Ukraine. We have helped them out. We've done this in other war situations when we've come to the aid of somebody. So in principle, I don't object to it.

But if anybody thinks that the transactional nature of Donald Trump, even if he gets this deal, will ensure Ukraine's security for the rest of his administration, hasn't watched Trump's first administration.

He'll make a deal over the minerals and he'll junk it or make another deal the minute it suits his interest.

DEAN: All right. Ambassador Bolton, thanks for your time. We appreciate it.

BOLTON: Thank you.

[17:38:24]

DEAN: Breaking news. A worrying health update on the pope tonight. We're going to speak to a doctor about the potential prognosis.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:43:13]

DEAN: The health of Pope Francis appears to have taken a turn for the worse. According to the Vatican, the pontiff developed an asthmatic respiratory crisis earlier today and remains in critical condition.

Pope Francis has been in the hospital for more than a week now, battling pneumonia in both his lungs. The Vatican says the pope continues to be alert, but added he is in more pain than yesterday.

CNN medical analyst, Dr. Jonathan Reiner, is joining us now. He's also a professor of medicine and surgery at George Washington University.

Doctor, thanks so much for being here with us.

Help us understand how serious these new developments are.

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: I think quite serious. And I think for the first time in the press release from the Vatican, they used the phrase "critical," that the pope was in critical condition.

So we learned two things today. We learned that he had some form of acute respiratory crisis. They described it as an asthmatic event, typically asthma, not in this context, refers to an inflammatory illness that can result in spasm of the airways and difficulty getting air in.

But in the context of somebody with bilateral pneumonia, to me, it sounds like he had some form of difficulty keeping his oxygen levels up or actively breathing. And in the setting of someone with pneumonia, that can be from

something like a mucus plug or some other acute problem. The net result of that is they report that the pontiff now requires high-flow oxygen.

The second ominous disclosure is that they described that the pope's platelet count had dropped. And they described -- which is called thrombocytopenia.

[17:45:00]

And when one encounters a drop in platelet count in the context of somebody battling pneumonia, it raises the unwelcome specter of sepsis. So the net effect -- the net effect is a significant setback for His Holiness.

DEAN: And so what course of treatment would you expect doctors would take? Might it involve having to intubate him at this point?

REINER: So one of the first things I do when I care for somebody like the pope, who is almost 90 years old, is establish an advanced directive from them and from the family.

And understand that, whether should the patient's condition deteriorate to requiring intubation, whether that is something that that they would want -- and we certainly don't know what the popes wishes are at this point.

But what they did have to do today is change from nasal cannula, which are the ubiquitous prongs that you see in a patients nose that can deliver about six liters of oxygen comfortably to a patient and increase the percentage of oxygen in the air from about 21 percent.

Which is what we see in room air, to 30 to 35 percent. But that's about as high as you can get with those traditional nasal cannula.

And what the medical team caring for Pope Francis did today is placed him on a different system called high-flow oxygen, in which you can deliver up to 60 liters of flow per minute. And that can raise the amount of inspired oxygen to 100 percent.

The only way to deliver more oxygen would be with intubation. And again, we don't yet know that he is sick enough for that. And we also don't know whether that is something that he would wish for.

DEAN: Right. And you did mention his age. He's 88 years old. He does have a vulnerability to respiratory infections. As a young man, he had part of one lung removed, actually, after a bout of severe pneumonia.

Obviously, that is a layer to all of this, I would assume, too, that just that there is a history there.

REINER: Right. So his -- his history of surgery to remove piece of his lung. So we know that his -- his lung capacity at baseline, even when he's feeling well, is reduced. But also, he -- as you said, he's almost 90, 90 years old. And the

reserve that patients have as -- as -- as we all get older is -- is lower. As we get older, our immune system senesces and our ability to fight off infection declines.

So, you know, it's just very difficult for someone at advanced age battling what is described as bilateral pneumonia to bounce -- to bounce back quickly. And the ability to respond to a setback like this becomes increasingly challenging.

So we typically look for the trajectory of recovery, and we want to see a patient sort of one day after the next, continuing to make progress. And again, a serious setback now requiring higher levels of oxygen or transfusion as they -- as the Vatican described today, is an unwelcome update.

DEAN: Yes. All right, Dr. Jonathan Reiner, thank you for that context. We really appreciate it.

REINER: My pleasure.

DEAN: And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:52:57]

DEAN: We're getting new details about the ongoing legal saga of Luigi Mangione. The 26-year-old's attorneys are asking for more time to evaluate the discovery, with his next hearing now set for June 26th.

Mangione was back in court yesterday for the first time in months, charged in the killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. His appearance leading many of his supporters to gather outside.

CNN's Brynn Gingras has more on this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Accused killer, Luigi Mangione, back in court, flanked by officers shackled and wearing a bulletproof vest.

(CHANTING)

GINGRAS: He walked past dozens of supporters and into a New York City courtroom, where his defense attorney argued against Mangione's restraints.

KAREN FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO, LUIGI MANGIONE'S ATTORNEY: I don't understand what this -- this show of danger is for. When I go visit Luigi at MDC in Brooklyn, I sit with him. He is unshackled. He walks around freely in the visiting area.

GINGRAS: This is his first court appearance since pleading not guilty to the murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson last year. Prosecutors listed the evidence that has been turned over to the defense, including cell phone records, body camera footage and autopsy reports.

The hearing, sparking another surge of support for the 26 year old. This image of Mangione projected onto a New York City building last night and on a truck that circled the courthouse.

This, while donations continue to pour into an online legal defense fund. So far, it tops a half a million dollars with fans from around the globe giving money, some glorifying Mangione, while also venting frustrations against the health care industry.

Mangione himself expressing gratitude for the support on a new website created by his legal team.

"Powerfully, the support has transcended political, racial and even class divisions as mail has flooded MDC from across the country and around the globe."

Mangione is facing 11 state charges in the killing, as well as federal charges, which brings the possibility of the death penalty, though prosecutors have not said if they will seek it in this case.

[17:54:59]

Mangione eluded law enforcement for five days after the brazen shooting outside a midtown Manhattan hotel in December and was eventually arrested while eating at a Pennsylvania McDonalds.

ALVIN BRAGG, MANHATTAN DISTRICT ATTORNEY: This was a frightening, well-planned, targeted murder.

GINGRAS: The defense, again, arguing the media attention on this case is impacting his chances of a fair trial.

AGNIFILO: Luigi's right to a fair trial is being infringed upon because he is being publicly treated as guilty.

GINGRAS (on camera): And the defense made a number of requests in that court hearing, including asking the judge to remove the shackles from Mangione. But the judge denied that request.

Mangione is going to be back in court in June.

Brynn Gingras, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: Brynn, thank you.

Still ahead, Elon Musk sends a message to all federal employees saying they are required to detail what they did last week to justify their job. What he says will happen if they don't do that.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)