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President Trump Criticizes Remote Workers at CPAC; GOP Congressman Questioned, Booed At Town Hall Over Trump And DOGE; Zelenskyy Hopes For Fair Minerals Agreement With U.S.; Police Officer Killed, 5 Injured In A PA Hospital Shooting; Survey: Consumer Confidence Plunges On Fears Of Tariffs, Inflation; Dow Loses More than 1,000 Points In 2-Day Slide; Trump & Musk Cut Thousands Of Jobs From Federal Govt.; New Los Angeles D.A. May End Hopes Of Menendez Retrial; Pope In "Critical" Condition Following Respiratory Crisis. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired February 22, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:38]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jessica Dean in New York.

E-mails are landing in many government workers inboxes right now from Elon Musk. E-mails telling them to reply and spell out what they did last week at work or be fired. It is coming just after President Donald Trump had a clear message to any federal worker working remotely this afternoon, get back to the office or you're fired. That came during his speech in Maryland at an annual conservative conference earlier today.

CNN's Betsy Klein is at the White House. She joins us with more on this.

So let's start first, Betsy, with this new ultimatum.

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE PRODUCER: That's right. President trump really taking a victory lap at CPAC earlier today, playing his greatest hits as he addressed supporters in longtime Capitol Hill allies and other leaders of the conservative movement from across the country, but really railing against some of his political adversaries.

He said he had, "a resounding mandate for dramatic change in Washington." And to that end, we are seeing Trump reimagine the size and scope of the federal government and the federal workforce.

We know, he has tasked Elon Musk and his so-called Department of Government Efficiency with finding ways to dramatically slash federal spending. And as Trump was speaking, Trump called Musk "a patriot." He said he is doing a great job.

And during those remarks, Musk himself issued an ultimatum to federal workers on social media, saying in a post, "Consistent with President Donald Trump's instructions, all federal employees will shortly receive an e-mail requesting to understand what they got done last week. Failure to respond," Musk said, "Will be taken as a resignation."

Now, CNN has obtained copies of that e-mail. Starkly has the subject line that says, "What did you do last week?" It asks federal workers to provide roughly five bullet points of their accomplishments in an e-mail to their managers with an 11:59 PM deadline this coming Monday.

But Jessica, President Trump, for his part, says that he is taking aim at federal employees who have stopped working in offices and are opting to work remotely as this return to work mandate starts to kick in. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If they don't report for work, we are firing them. In other words, you have to go to office, right? Right. Look at her.

If you don't report to work, you know that's another scam. You know, who the hell -- if I am staying home, I am going to -- let's see, my golf handicap would get down to a very low number. You'd be shocked if I told you the real number, but I would be so good, I'd try and get on tour. I would be so good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KLEIN: Jessica, we should of course, note that President Trump himself has been working remotely and spent four out of the last eight days at one of his golf properties on the links.

DEAN: Betsy, I know you also heard from his Press Secretary, Karoline Leavitt, a little bit earlier on Ukraine and Russia negotiations. What did she say?

KLEIN: That's right. Karoline Leavitt addressing reporters a few moments ago, she says that President Trump thinks that Russia wants to make a deal. She also said that National Security adviser, Mike Waltz is "working around the clock" on these negotiations and notably put a timeline on that.

She said that the president is, "very confident we can get it done this week." So this week, in the coming days, just as that war is about to enter its -- hit its third anniversary just a couple of days from now.

So a lot of questions about how this moves forward, but certainly things moving quite quickly here, Jessica, just after those tensions between the U.S. and Ukraine reached a boiling point.

DEAN: Yes, no doubt about that.

Betsy Klein at the White House, thank you so much for that.

Joining us now, CNN senior political analyst, Ron Brownstein.

Ron, thanks for being here. I first just want to get your initial thoughts on what President Trump had to say at CPAC today, notably making that ultimatum about remote workers, but he touched a lot of other subjects as well.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, and it was a victory lap, that is in many ways, I think reflective of the opportunity and the challenge he faces. I mean, Donald Trump won with 49 percent of the vote, and he has taken that historically narrow victory as justification. And, you know argument for a sweeping reimagination of the role of the federal government in American life and the role of America in the world.

[18:05:12]

And so, you know, he is kind of pushing to the maximum his vision of executive power in a way that polls show is thrilling his base, his approval rating among Republicans is 90 percent or more in most polls, but there are now eight public polls with his approval rating less than a month into his presidency at net negative among Independent voters. And that's pretty extraordinary given the, you know, the tradition of at least some honeymoon for new presidents.

So, you know, the question of whether Trump is overplaying his hand, he is certainly pushing -- you know, he is putting a lot of chips on very much of a conservative wish list and we will see if the voters who put him over the top are comfortable with this, particularly because, Jessica, the polls are also telling us that most of those Independent voters feel he is not focusing enough on the problem that they elected him above all to solve, which is inflation.

DEAN: Yes, and I want to get back to that in just a second. But I also want to ask you about this, these notes, these e-mails that federal workers are getting saying that if they don't -- you know, that they have to list five things that they did and if they don't -- if they don't do that, that they would -- it would be taken as a resignation, failure to respond.

This idea that they need to be giving proof of work, I was asking another guest earlier, what if you have a security clearance? You know what -- how does this actually practically work?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, well, I mean, look, I mean, this is kind of, you know, another -- just kind of the latest turn of the screw on these sweeping across the board efforts to reduce the federal workforce.

I was surprised in "The Washington Post" poll, IPSOS poll this week that 60 percent, roughly 60 percent of Americans said that they are moving too fast to remove federal workers. I wasn't sure there would be much of a backlash to this at the front end from the public, but whatever the reaction at the front end, as we talked about before, this leaves. Trump and Musk exposed at the back end to events.

I mean, if you're cutting federal health inspectors and there are outbreaks of food, you know, disease or food poisoning, you're going to get political blowback. If you're cutting FAA workers and there are more problems in the air or accidents, you are going to get political blowback.

If the National Parks are visibly degraded and the lines are impossibly long this summer, there are going to be a lot of unhappy people. They're going to be unhappy people if tax returns -- tax refunds are delayed.

So once you do this, you basically create a predicate in which critics can say anything that goes wrong down the road was, as a result, or at least exacerbated by the choice to strip the federal workforce.

So they're kind of, you know, putting down a check that they may have to cash in a way they don't like some months down the road.

DEAN: And you did mention the economy, which was overwhelmingly what so many people voted for with Donald Trump, was to bring down the cost of living. Our new polling, showing 62 percent of Americans don't think he is doing enough to bring down the cost of goods.

At what point, again, we are only one month in and to be fair to President Trump, there is only so much you can do in a month. However, with threatening tariffs and we saw the Dow taking a tumble yesterday, that University of Michigan poll coming out saying that people were pessimistic about the future for a second month in a row.

Put that all together and how long do you think Americans will go along for that ride?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, I think you're already seeing, you know a nick in his approval rating. I mean, you know, if you look generally at the polls, Gallup is probably, you know, the longest lasting one going back to the 50s. Trump is slightly better than where he was in 2017, but weaker than every other newly elected president at this point.

And as I said, we now have eight separate public polls where his approval rating among Independent voters is already net negative in seven of them by at least double digits, and one done by his pollster, Tony Fabrizio, and the pollster for Kamala Harris in 2024 for AARP, his approval rating among Independents was minus 19.

I think his problem at this point is that voters in the middle who put him over the top, see him as focused, as I said, more on other issues than on their cost of living. But there is another problem looming down the road, which is whether they begin to view his agenda as exacerbating the problem with tariffs, with mass deportations, with tax cuts for people mostly at the top, paired with spending cuts on programs like Medicaid and SNAP that benefit middle and working class families.

So that is the biggest risk to him and Republicans over the immediate period. I think more than anything else that voters will feel he has lost sight of the issue that they elected him to solve and if anything, is making it worse rather than better.

[18:10:10]

DEAN: And we are starting to see some of this percolating at the local level. We saw Republican lawmakers, some -- a few getting some backlash from constituents, specifically in this case over Trump's use of executive power and DOGE. I can play a clip from that. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay, what's not reasonable is taking this chainsaw approach, which they, obviously admit when they fired these people, and then decided, oh, we fired the wrong people.

REP. RICH MCCORMICK (R-GA): My understanding is when you say you have this many employees that you have to cut, that organization decides who they're going to cut.

Now, they may make -- they may --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What you, Congressman and your fellow congressmen are going to do to rein in the megalomaniac in the White House.

MCCORMICK: When you talk about tyranny, when you talk about presidential power, I remember having the same discussion with Republicans when Biden was elected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Now, Ron, this was in a Georgia district with a Congressman named Rich McCormick.

Do you think we are going to start seeing more of this?

BROWNSTEIN: You know, I mean, Republicans are saying this is basically organized by Democratic interest groups, and these are people who would never vote for Republicans anyway and I am sure there is some truth to that. But as I said, I mean, if you look at polling, we now have a very clear picture that Independent voters are uneasy about a lot of the specific things Trump has done, such as pardoning the January 6th rioters, threatening these tariffs, talking about taking Gaza, and also concerned that he is not focused on the issues that elected him.

You know, Tom Davis, the former chair of the National Republican Congressional Committee, one of the smartest minds in the GOP about congressional politics for the last several decades, likes to say that in a midterm, voters usually vote not to give a blank check to a president, but to put a check on the President.

And with Republicans in Congress so overtly and repeatedly signaling that they are not going to check or limit Trump in almost any meaningful way, maybe not in districts like that one in Georgia, but in ones that are more competitive, you can see how that desire to have some institution that is standing up to Trump, you know, in the way that, for example, the Maine Governor did yesterday may become a problem for Republicans, particularly if there is that view that they did not make progress on the biggest issue they were elected to solve.

And rather than that, focus on cutting taxes for their rich buddies while cutting programs for the middle class. That has proven to be a very toxic combination as Newt Gingrich and Bill Clinton in '95-'96, it was that combination, Clinton arguing against that, that turned around his presidency and set him on a path toward re-election, and Republicans in the House in particular, are steaming right into a repeat of that strategy.

DEAN: And in the meantime, look, we haven't seen a clear strategy from Democrats appear yet.

BROWNSTEIN: No.

DEAN: There have been some signs of life, but not anything especially compared to what we saw back in 2017. You know, we heard from James Carville who essentially made the case, just let him -- give him enough rope kind of thing and just let it happen.

Yes, do you think that's the right way forward for Democrats?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, what -- you know, it is funny because I was going to say what I see in those town halls, above all, is not only pressure on Republicans, it is pressure on Democrats.

I mean, the disapproval of Democratic leadership among Democratic voters in the polling this week is extraordinary, and it largely reflects their belief that they are not pushing back enough on enough fronts with Trump.

But, you know, the party, the big debate in the party, I think has -- it tilts toward those who believe that they can't respond to, you know, Trump's strategy is to flood the zone and they can't respond to all of it, and that they need to focus on this central argument, which will come to a head during the budget fight, which is really, you know, beginning next week in the House around the argument that Republicans are cutting programs that benefit the middle class, particularly Medicaid and maybe Affordable Care Act subsidies to fund tax cuts for the rich.

It is worth noting for those who have that view, in fairness to that point of view, that Bill Clinton tried a lot of things to revive his presidency in 1995 after the shellacking, the wipeout in the '94 midterm, none of them worked until he was thrust into exactly that battle in the fall of 1995 with Newt Gingrich and the new Congress and it was that argument that turned around his presidency.

And I think there are a lot of Democrats who really want to keep the focus on that central issue. Trump said he was going to solve your problems, but he is really focusing on making his rich friends even richer.

The problem is that leaves a lot of stuff going by that is very threatening to Democratic constituencies and frankly, very unnerving, as we see in the polls to a lot of Independent voters and you get mounting frustration in the Democratic base about the party's determination to kind of not swing at every pitch as Hakeem Jeffries says, and to keep their focus on this question of who is on your side.

DEAN: Yes and Americans will get to decide who they believe that is.

Ron Brownstein, thanks so much. Good to see you.

BROWNSTEIN: Thanks for having me.

DEAN: Still to come, Trump is ramping up the pressure on Ukraine in a bid to gain control of one of its most valuable resources, but the offer on the table is missing one key thing that Ukraine wants, security guarantees.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:20:15]

DEAN: The Trump administration is pressing Ukraine to accept a deal on rare earth minerals as part of wider negotiations aimed at ending the war. According to a source familiar, this draft of the deal is, "not the one President Zelenskyy would accept" as Ukraine looks to secure security guarantees from the U.S.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh has more now from Kyiv.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Intense discussion and scrutiny around the rare earth mineral deal that has become really the central plank of United States-Ukrainian relations moving forward.

We are hearing from a source familiar with the negotiations that the current draft, certainly as of Saturday morning, is not acceptable to the Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, apparently concerned that within that, there are many concessions to the united states in terms of the availability of rare earth minerals, metals, and natural resources inside of Ukraine, but few security guarantees or even security elements, as one Ukrainian official described it to me in Ukraine's favor.

On the other side, a U.S. official familiar with the negotiations describes the deal in different terms, suggesting that this is essentially, for the United States, a way to be less dependent on China for many of these resources, and also a way of incentivizing Washington when it comes to Ukraine's defense, kind of a win-win in their perspective.

And they stress that in the time in which the U.S. envoy to Ukraine and Russia, General Keith Kellogg, was in Kyiv, the deal moved forward significantly.

But we are into a very difficult moment here because it is clear from listening to the past week of President Trump talking, that his personal warmth towards Ukrainian Volodymyr Zelenskyy is significantly diminished. He has at times used falsehoods and insults to push Zelenskyy into a corner and the debate over how this deal is indeed signed continues to rage, with Zelenskyy often having to defend Ukraine about simple facts, about the fact that Russia invaded and his own personal popularity. It does appear that this is the one key sticking point to future aid, without which it will be exceptionally hard for Kyiv to fend off future Russian aggression.

So a clock ticking. Certainly, most Ukrainian officials we spoke to say this is an urgent task, certainly, but the outstanding points are clearly ones that are being debated hour by hour and so much hanging in the balance here for many Ukrainians on the frontlines, and clearly a very transactional approach towards this relationship from the Trump administration.

Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Kyiv, Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: And for more on all of this, let's bring in CNN's senior military analyst and former NATO Supreme Allied Commander, James Stavridis. He is also a partner at The Carlyle Group, a global investment firm, and serves on the board or advises a handful of Defense related companies.

Admiral, thanks so much for being here with us.

I want to start first with the fact that the United States' position and the position of its president when it comes to Russia's war in Ukraine is so dramatically different than it was a year ago, essentially placing the bulk of the blame for Russia's invasion of Ukraine on Ukraine and I am just curious what you make of this shift.

ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS (RET), CNN SENIOR MILITARY ANALYST: Well, it is clearly attributable to President Trump himself and let's start with the facts, because facts are stubborn things, Jessica. And fact one is Ukraine was invaded by Russia. We all watched the tanks cross those borders. We watched the aerial assault on Ukrainian cities. We followed the human rights violations in places like Bucha, the rape and the torture by the Russian Army. Those are all facts. Russia is the aggressor. Ukraine is the victim in this.

So we now come to a more, if you will, transactional moment. Putin has a stronger hand of cards than he did a year ago or so, simply because combat is hard and Russia is a much larger country with more people and resources.

So that brings us to the rare earth deal that you and Nick were just talking about. I think it is time to put that together, but to do it exactly as you were discussing with security guarantees for the Ukrainians.

DEAN: Yes, and that is what we kind of were hearing from Secretary of State Marco Rubio. He, this week tried to explain that and say in his words that this was going to be a security guarantee because the United States would be invested with Ukraine.

Do you think that that can actually work?

STAVRIDIS: I think that is necessary, but it is insufficient to comfort the Ukrainians, and more importantly, it is insufficient to deter Vladimir Putin.

[18:25:02]

Look, I will give you three things to consider. All of these would have to be negotiated with the Ukrainians. But one security guarantee could be to say publicly that if Putin reinvades after we get to a ceasefire negotiation, that would be a tripwire that would bring Ukraine directly into NATO.

A second security guarantee would be the presence of European troops in Ukraine to do security training, a different kind of tripwire that would not be under NATO flag, but British troops, French troops, Polish troops acting within Ukraine providing training and then a third security guarantee that I think would be very important, would be a pledge that the United States would continue to supply a reasonable level of military assistance to Ukraine.

And I will close with this, Jessica, that military assistance that we provide Ukraine, all of those dollars essentially come back to the United States. Those are supplies, equipment, ammunition purchased from U.S. Defense companies. So it is a win-win negotiation.

We do need to provide some form of the additional security guarantees beyond simply, hey, we are mining rare earths here.

And how confident are you that the Trump administration will sign off and over -- you know, sign off on a deal like that?

STAVRIDIS: I am reasonably confident that as we progress into these negotiations, we can rise above some of the name calling, which, in fairness, has gone both ways, and we can end up in a position that does the main thing and the main thing is deterring Vladimir Putin from further adventurism in and around the old Soviet Union. That's his goal and we should be very clear eyed about it.

And if we join with our European allies, we can afford to do this and we can harness that fighting spirit of the Ukrainians and continue to stop Vladimir Putin.

DEAN: And there is this dynamic also between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin. They are preparing to have this face-to-face summit. Can you help put into context what that relationship is like between a U.S. President and the Kremlin?

STAVRIDIS: As I look at their body language when they're together, I look at what they say about each other, I look at what the team, particularly the team around Putin says very positively about our President, I am surprised. I think it is a surprising event when these two leaders that you're showing of two nations that really have antithetical goals and values, it is very surprising to see a level of personal chemistry that you're showing on tape right now.

Let's be clear, though, personal friendships are not ultimately what drive international relations or security guarantees or any of the things we are talking about. Nations have permanent interests. I am confident overall, the United States will move forward in the right way, regardless of this personal affinity these two men seem to have for each other.

DEAN: All right, Admiral James Stavridis, thank you so much for being here. We appreciate it.

STAVRIDIS: Thanks, Jessica.

DEAN: A police officer and a gunman are both dead tonight after a hostage incident at a Pennsylvania Hospital today. The brand new details we are learning about that violent incident. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:33:20]

DEAN: New tonight, a gunman took medical staff hostage and opened fire at a hospital in Pennsylvania this morning, killing one police officer, wounding five others. Authorities say the gunman identified was also killed. And he was holding an ICU employee hostage at gunpoint when officers first intervened. CNN Correspondent Gloria Pazmino joining us now.

Gloria, what more do you know about this investigation?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jessica, it happened shortly before noon today at UPMC Memorial Hospital inside the intensive care unit, as you mentioned. This is in York, Pennsylvania. And it was quite a frightening ordeal for the patients of that hospital, the staff and the police who responded. There was a man who was armed with a pistol and zip ties who entered the ICU, according to police, and took one of the staff members hostage. The man has been identified by police as Diogenes Archangel Ortiz. He's 49 years old and he was killed by police who responded to that incident as he was exiting the ICU into a hallway while he was pointing his weapon at one of the staff members.

The York County District Attorney, Tim Barker, said that the incident is now under investigation. But importantly, he noted that investigators believe the suspect had recently come in contact with the facility because someone else there was getting medical treatment. And at this early stage in the investigation, investigators believe that he specifically targeted the people inside that ICU. Take a listen.

[18:35:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM BARKER, DISTRICT ATTORNEY OF YORK COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA: When he came out, Mr. Diogenes Archangel Ortiz came out holding at gunpoint a member of the UPMC staff who was also had her hands tied with the aforementioned zip ties. Holding her at gunpoint, coming out into the hallway, the officers, left with no recourse, did open fire and did shoot and kill Diogenes Archangel Ortiz. (END VIDEO CLIP)

PAZMINO: Jessica, Gov. Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania there also speaking about the brave reaction that the medical staff of this hospital had, making sure that it went into lockdown and protecting everyone else that was in the facility. At the time, we've spoken with some of the visitors that were inside this hospital.

You're looking at video there taken by one of those visitors who was watching from inside a room inside the hospital as police were responding. She said that the hospital went into lockdown. She was there visiting her elderly mother. She crouched on the floor near the window to be safe. Her mother asleep while this whole ordeal was unfolding. She said it was extremely frightening. But she watched from the window as police were responding.

We should also mention four staffers at the hospital, including a doctor, a nurse and a custodian, were injured, as well as two other officers who were shot and wounded in the attack, in addition to that police officer that tragically was killed during the shootout, Jessica?

DEAN: All right. Gloria Pazmino, thank you.

Still to come, a perfect storm of fears and concerns coming together on Wall Street and bringing the worst day the market's seen all year as buyers and investors alike express growing frustration with the economy and the lack of change promised by President Trump.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:41:29]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And we're going to have so much money coming in from tariffs. Oh, you're going to say your senators and your congressmen are going to say, please, sir, please, you're making us look so bad. We have so much money coming in. I didn't know this was going to happen. Please don't do this to us. We look very bad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Many Americans say they voted for Donald Trump to become president because he promised to help bring prices down. But now Americans' fears are rising sharply that prices may be rising again, driven by Trump's other promise to slap tariffs on products made in other countries. The Dow slid more than a thousand points combined in the past two trading days. And that's as a survey shows consumer confidence fell nearly 10 percent in February. That's the second month in a row driven by concerns about the Trump tariffs.

Now, new CNN polling shows 62 percent of Americans do not believe Trump has done enough to reduce the costs of everyday goods. Roben Farzad, business journalist and host of NPR's Full Disclosure is joining us now.

Robin, thanks so much for being here on a Saturday night. We appreciate it.

Listen, Americans, consumers, businesses, we're going to include them all here, they say that they're worried about these tariffs and how that might affect their bottom line.

ROBEN FARZAD, BUSINESS JOURNALIST: And in an economy that's still sensitive to this inflation that wrought havoc, I thought in 2022. I mean, it's a big reason why the incumbent Biden-Harris lost people's frustration with things that are under the control of, I say, fiscal policy and monetary policy and (INAUDIBLE) such as supply chain issues and avian flu. And Elon Musk and Donald Trump cannot encourage chickens to hatch more eggs.

DEAN: Right, yes.

FARZAD: I mean, this is a fundamental disconnect right here. I mean, in other countries like Venezuela, you have dictators, you have call- in shows and a person saying, can you hook me up with a bag of cement or can we have a chicken or two for my daughter's wedding? It's not the way it works here.

DEAN: Yes. And for the most part, even with financial headlines saying that some CEOs, some consumers, some economists are worried the stock market had kind of - been faring pretty well until recently this week, the market got rattled, though, yesterday. What - why was that?

FARZAD: Well, by design, a huge component is UnitedHealth, which has been really in the news over the last three months. You remember the assassination of the CEO in Midtown Manhattan, and now the Department of Justice is announcing a probe going after UnitedHealth for public health care fraud, which I think is red meat politically, while this regime, you know, the administration retains kind of a honeymoon first hundred days popularity burst coming out of the election, the big election win last fall.

So UnitedHealth is a huge component of the Dow 30 and for arcane reasons it, you know, when that stock gets hammered like it did yesterday, the Dow falls hugely.

DEAN: And listen, voters signal pretty strongly, as we were just saying in the election, they think prices are simply too high. What can President Trump do? We focused on what's kind of out of his hands, but what can he do to help out on that front and how likely is it, do you think, that he does that?

FARZAD: Well, you're assuming a misunderstanding, I think, if you're Trump of how tariffs work. It's not like you're getting immediate cash back or a check that can be cut out like a stimulus check for people to go out and spend on consumables. Traditionally, prices, inflation has been killed by hatching some sort of recession. You have to have a slowdown. You have to have demand destruction. You have to have less FOMO people going out less, going to Disney World less, buying less, leasing less. [18:45:04]

And then, workers coming in and accepting less in exchange - I know it sounds mercenary - to show up for these jobs. And that's what brings inflation, I think, back down to the Federal Reserve's comfortable target.

You know, jawboning and these headlines about tariffs, that's all on the margin. And if anything, it worsens the situation if companies start hiking prices in anticipation of tariffs. You don't need a reason right now for companies to hike even more.

DEAN: And then, there's the question, too, and we don't know yet, we're just going to have to see kind of the real-world implications from the DOGE federal job cuts, from the funding cuts, again, just reminding people that that isn't just centered in Washington, D.C. Of course, that is a place that's going to be quite hit quite hard. But these are jobs and funding that goes all across the country.

FARZAD: Now, I can tell you, speaking to federal employees across the map, and not just that, I mean, their federal employees, their administrative employees, their janitors who work in the building, who are contractors, who are brought in through third party firms, you know, linen companies and the like, there is a huge chilling effect right now, not knowing if you're going to have your job come spring break. If you could plan a vacation for your kids. It's not just a D.C.-centric thing. It's happening across the Defense Department, the IRS Department.

The federal government is a huge, huge machine across the country and even abroad. And it remains to be seen as we see consumer sentiment numbers come out, how much this has a dampening effect on the economy. Having said that, in a perverse way, if you see worse consumer sentiment numbers, the Fed finally might be emboldened to cut rates some more. So, maybe I think, you know, Trump is rooting for that on the margin.

DEAN: All right. Roben Farzad, thanks so much. We appreciate it.

FARZAD: Thank you.

DEAN: Up next, the remaining options for Erik and Lyle Menendez after L.A.'s new D.A. appeared to upend part of their effort to get out of prison after more than 30 years behind bars for the brutal killings of their parents.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:51:37]

DEAN: Erik and Lyle Menendez have spent more than three decades in prison for the brutal murder of their parents. Now, they are seeking a retrial, but the new Los Angeles District Attorney is standing in their way, urging a judge to deny their request. CNN's Nick Watt has the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A local election in Los Angeles might have sealed the fate of the infamous Menendez brothers. Keeping them in jail for the rest of their lives.

Back in October, L.A.'s progressive D.A. said this ...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE GASCON, FORMER L.A. COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: I believe that they have paid their debt to society.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT (voice over): George Gascon agreed with the brothers' request to be re-sentenced, which could ultimately have seen them walk free.

But Gascon was trounced in that November vote and his successor who won with a tough on crime message today sang a very different tune in regards to their other request, which is for a retrial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NATHAN HOCHMAN, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, LOS ANGELES COUNTY: They come out with two new pieces of evidence. One piece being an undated photocopy of a letter purportedly sent by Erik Menendez to his cousin.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT (voice over): In that letter, Erik alludes to alleged sexual abuse at the hands of their father, Jose, which the brothers say led them to fear for their lives and brutally murder Jose and their mom Kitty at the family's Beverly Hills mansion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOCHMAN: It is not credible evidence. We've not been presented with the original. We've not been presented with an envelope with a postmark.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know what he did to me in his house.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT (voice over): The second piece of allegedly new evidence. Testimony from a former boy band member who appeared in a Peacock documentary, claiming that Jose Menendez, a record executive, had also raped him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOCHMAN: We will prosecute sexual abuse in any form it comes. But sexual abuse in this situation, while it may have been a motivation for Erik and Lyle to do what they did. Does not constitute self- defense.

Among the many cases we have worked on have been the case of people versus Erik and Lyle Menendez.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT (voice over): The D.A.'s office even released their own mini documentary to explain why they will recommend that a judge reject the brothers request for a retrial. But what about that other request?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOCHMAN: We have not made a decision on the resentencing issue. We're still in the process of not just analyzing the trial evidence, but analyzing the rehabilitation and all the other evidence that's required in a resentencing motion.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please, rise.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT (voice over): The brothers have spent roughly 35 years behind bars. Their elderly aunts believe that's enough.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOAN VANDERMOLEN, SISTER OF KITTY MENENDEZ: I do want them home. What can a kid do when his father is - oh, I can't stand it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT (on camera): Obviously, the D.A.'s input is critical here. But ultimately whether the Menendez brothers get resentenced or a retrial, that will be up to a judge. There's one more wrinkle, their last hope is to appeal to the governor of California for clemency.

Nick Watt, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: Nick, thank you.

[18:55:00]

The Catholic faithful are gathering to pray in Rome and beyond as Pope Francis remains in the hospital in critical condition dealing with worsening complications from pneumonia.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:59:51]

DEAN: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jessica Dean in New York.

We are following major breaking news tonight from the Vatican as Pope Francis remains in the hospital and appears to have taken a turn for the worse.