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Pope Francis In Critical Condition Following Respiratory Crisis; Police Officer Killed, 5 Injured In Pennsylvania Hospital Shooting; Final Living Hostages Released Under First Phase Of Ceasefire Deal; President Trump Criticizes Remote Work At CPAC; Odds Of Asteroid Hitting Earth Keep Shifting; Filings Show Not All Migrants Sent To Guantanamo Are "High Threat". Aired 7-8p ET

Aired February 22, 2025 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:00]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: Major breaking news tonight from the Vatican as Pope Francis remains in the hospital and appears to have taken a turn for the worse. According to a statement, the 88-year-old pontiff developed asthmatic respiratory crisis earlier today and remains in critical condition. Pope Francis has been in the hospital now for more than a week, battling pneumonia in both lungs. The Vatican says he continues to be alert but is in more pain than yesterday.

Joining us now, former Baltimore health commissioner Dr. Leana Wen and Katie McGrady, host of the "Katie McGrady Show" on Sirius XM's "The Catholic Channel."

I want to thank you both for being here.

Dr. Wen, let's start first with you. And I'd like you to describe to us how serious you think these new developments are for the Pope.

DR. LEANA WEN, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN: I think these new developments are very serious, Jessica, because first of all, we know that he is in critical condition. He is probably in the intensive care unit receiving round-the-clock very intensive care.

There are several things that make the situation particularly worrisome. The first is the fact that he is older. He is in his late 80s. He has got chronic medical conditions including having had multiple bouts of pneumonia before, having had a part of his lung removed in the past. He also has bilateral pneumonia, as you said, pneumonia in both lobes. He has got multiple microbes they have said that are causing this, may be viruses or bacteria or both that may be contributing.

The other thing too is he did take this turn for the worse. And so when with the patient with pneumonia, you always look at their trajectory and you worry about two main things. The first is respiratory failure, and it sounds like he is requiring more oxygen. He had some type of difficulty breathing episode. That's very concerning. And the other thing you're concerned about is sepsis, which is whole body infection. Pneumonia just affects the lungs. You're concerned about the infection

also going to the rest of the body. And if a patient develops sepsis that has a high mortality rate, and we certainly want to make sure that -- I'm sure that that the Pope's doctors are trying to do everything they can to prevent sepsis from happening.

DEAN: Yes. And we know he's been given additional oxygen. Do you think there could become a point where they would have to intubate the Pope?

WEN: Yes. I mean, that's certainly a concern, again, in somebody who has bilateral pneumonia in both lungs. It also sounds like he had some episode that required an escalation in his care. And one, though, does really -- you really want to avoid intubating someone, especially someone who is older with all these medical conditions. There's a chance that they could acquire additional infections when somebody is intubated.

They're also then sedated. They cannot move. And it's very difficult in this situation. It could be very difficult to take somebody off of the respiratory, off of the respirator once they are intubated.

DEAN: Yes. And Katie, I know you've met Pope Francis. Across the world, people are praying for his recovery. Walk us through what's going on right now, just in terms of the machine around him and the Vatican, and what it means for the Catholic Church, what might be going on behind the scenes with the Pope so ill?

KATIE MCGRADY, HOST OF SIRIUS XM'S CATHOLIC CHANNEL: Well, it's certainly something for all the world's Catholics to be paying attention to and to pray. Today is actually an important feast day for us. It's the feast of the Chair of Saint Peter. And that's not just about furniture. It's about the role of the Pope in the world. And as the successor of Peter, we're all praying very closely.

And the people around him, whether it's the medical care team or it's his advisers or, you know, cardinals in and out of the Vatican, he is certainly being surrounded by people who are looking at him very closely. And the work of the Vatican continues. There were bulletins today about bishops appointments and about who's going to lead the various jubilee events. So the Vatican continues to hum, even as the Holy Father is being cared for.

But everyone is, rightly so, a little on edge because Catholics feel a bit unmoored when our Pope is ill and when he is in -- and the words that they used in the bulletin today, he's not out of danger. And so I think everyone is watching very closely, praying intensely and hoping that he's able to return home.

The doctors said yesterday in the press conference, one of the people in the press pool said, if the Pope goes home and the doctor jumped in very quickly, he said, when the Pope goes home. And that was a very nice thing to hear. We all felt very confident. And then to get this bulletin today that he was on oxygen and that he'd maybe taken a turn for the worse, it's a bit of a roller coaster ride right now.

DEAN: Yes. And what about this idea? There have been questions kind of floating around. Should Pope Francis resign if he's older if he's not well? What do you think about that?

MCGRADY: I think it's natural for people to kind of assume, oh, well, resignation is on the table because, you know, that would happen with any other global world leader, not the queen or, you know, say we think 25th Amendment kind of thing with a U.S. president. And because our most recent Pope, before Pope Francis, did resign, and that was a bit of a shock. We hadn't had that happen in 600 years.

[19:05:01]

And so I think there is, well, could it happen again? It's natural to be curious. Pope Francis has never indicated that he would resign unless he was unable to continue carrying out the Petrine Office in being with the people. And there's reports floating that, OK, he wrote a letter many years ago, and the secretary of state has it, but that's not really on the table, and that's not common, and I suspect will not occur.

The Pope traditionally dies in office and we're not there yet. That's not been said. I think people are definitely worried and looking, but we're not there yet. Funeral plans are not being rehearsed. Conclaves do not get planned ahead of time. And so the resignation conversation -- Cardinal Parolin, the secretary of state, said today on a couple of different occasions, and yesterday that that is not a conversation happening and it's very unhelpful and certainly not fruitful to be speculating because it's not really on the table.

DEAN: And Dr. Wen, just medically, we learned also today he'd been given this transfusion, that he was in more pain than he was in the previous day. What does that say to you?

WEN: Yes. The transfusion and the need for the transfusion is worrisome because we learned that he has low -- that he has anemia, he has low blood counts. He has low red blood cell count. And also he has thrombocytopenia which is low platelets. Platelets are important in blood clotting and also in the immune defense. And when somebody has anemia and thrombocytopenia, you wonder if that could be the beginning of sepsis, this multi-organ, potentially multi-organ failure and total body infection.

Now we have not heard that this is the case. And it's -- we have heard that the Pope is receiving antibiotics. He's receiving steroids to try to prevent sepsis from happening. But again, we would worry that the trajectory is going in the wrong direction. That said, there is a lot that is still being done. Antibiotics, there is respiratory support that's being given, prayers from people around the world.

And we hope, of course, that all these treatments will begin working and that it can prevent these terrible complications from happening.

DEAN: Yes. And as that all plays out, Katie, just help us understand, give us a little context around the moment for the Catholic Church right now and just Pope Francis's role, you know, in his papacy what that has all meant and kind of where we stand today.

MCGRADY: He's been Pope for almost 12 years. It was February of 2013 when Benedict XVI resigned. So he steps down. First time it had happened in 600 years. And when Pope Francis stepped out on that balcony all those years ago, there was definitely some surprise. I don't think a lot of people had him on a number of these papabile lists, which are now starting to float around with the prospects of a conclave happening, because there is this concern and this worry about his health.

It's incredibly important Catholics and the whole world to remember that we don't plan those ahead of time. The Holy Spirit guides what happens in a conclave when it will occur. And it's important to note the Holy Father is 88, in the hospital. He's going to die. I don't know if that's today. I don't know if that's in a week. I don't know if that's in six months or a year. None of us do.

But we remember our death. Memento mori is a phrase we Catholics say. And so that's on the mind of Catholics praying for the Holy Father. And then in the days and weeks after this, if he gets better and returns to his full schedule, and he's a workaholic, so the Holy Father will be released from the hospital and would jump right back into all the things we know he does. He took meetings the morning, he went to the hospital, and then he's been in the hospital since.

So for context, yes, there might be murmurs and conversation, what comes next. But in the immediate, just like when Pope John Paul II died in 2005, in the immediate we watch, we pray, we hope for his well-being, and we remember his legacy, which is significant. He's a Pope who has said things that have shaken the world, a Pope who has brought more women into leadership in the upper echelons of the church.

Just the other day, he appointed a woman in charge of the Vatican generally, a religious sister. That's a big deal. The first woman to run the general of the Vatican. And so I think we'll continue to have conversations about his ministry has been so remarkable, has been so encouraging. People who love the church because they love Pope Francis. And I think that's how he would want people to be talking about him, to be praying for him on this feast day, where we remember Peter the Rock. It's very Francis that this is the day we're all talking about him.

DEAN: All right, Katie McGrady and Dr. Leana Wen, our thanks to both of you.

And a gunman killed one police officer and wounded five other people at a hospital in York, Pennsylvania, this morning. The shooter arriving with a handgun and zip ties and was holding a staff member hostage. That's according to authorities. They say 49-year-old Diogenes Arcangel Ortiz was holding an ICU employee at gunpoint when officers arrived at the scene. The gunman was killed in this incident.

[19:10:01]

CNN's correspondent Gloria Pazmino is joining us now.

And, Gloria, what more can you tell us about this? GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jessica,

unfortunately, the details kind of sound like something you might see in a movie or a TV show. This man walking into the hospital's intensive care unit with a pistol and zip ties, taking one of the staffers hostage and setting off this extremely frightening event for the staffers, for police, for patients and everyone there who responded.

It happened shortly before noon today at UPMC Memorial Hospital. That's in York, Pennsylvania, and the man has been identified by police as Diogenes Archangel Ortiz. He was 49 years old, and he was killed by police shortly after he took one of the staff members hostage. Take a listen to the attorney -- the District Attorney Tim Barker describing the incident.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM BARKER, DISTRICT ATTORNEY OF YORK COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA: When he came out, Mr. Diogenes Archangel Ortiz came out holding at gunpoint a member of the UPMC staff who was also had her hands tied with the aforementioned zip ties, holding her at gunpoint, coming out into the hallway. The officers left with no recourse did open fire and did shoot and kill Diogenes Archangel Ortiz.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAZMINO: Now the incident is under investigation, Jessica, but officials there did say today that they believe he was in contact with the unit in recent days regarding medical care for another individual. So police at this early stage believe that the suspect specifically targeted the staffers of that intensive care unit.

You're looking at video shot by some of the people that were inside at the hospital at the time that the shooting broke out. We spoke with a woman who was visiting her mother. She was watching this play out from her window. And then over the loudspeaker, she heard that the hospital was going into lockdown mode. She told us that she crouched down on the floor and waited for safety as all of this unfolded this afternoon. Unfortunately, four staffers were injured along with a police officer who was killed during the shooting -- Jessica.

DEAN: All right. Gloria Pazmino, thanks so much for that update.

Still ahead, six more living hostages are now back in Israel as we near the end of phase one of the Israel-Hamas ceasefire. And it comes as Israel tonight delays the release of Palestinian detainees, saying Hamas is exploiting captives for propaganda. Plus, an asteroid coming toward earth. Chances are it won't hit us. But Bill Nye the science guy is going to join us ahead to talk about what we should be concerned about.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:17:31] DEAN: We have breaking news tonight, as Israel says it will delay the release of more than 600 Palestinian prisoners. It was set to release today in return for the Israelis that were freed earlier today. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu saying they would be held, quote, "until the release of the next hostages is ensured without the humiliating ceremonies," referring to what have been staged propaganda filled handovers in Gaza.

Six Israelis were released earlier today. Four of those freed were kidnaped on October 7th. The other two men had been held by Hamas since before the October 7th attacks.

CNN's Nic Robertson has more now from Tel Aviv.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): Shaky on his feet, 40-year-old Tal Shoham. Also looking weak Avera Mengistu, nearly 11 years a hostage. Hamas as ever in force and in control of the propagandized handover. This day, the last of the planned and agreed living hostage releases.

Avera's friends bursting into song as they watch his release. Tal's family greeting his freedom from 505 days in captivity with tears. And then the real deal. Tal waving to the crowds, hugging his son. Meanwhile, in a crowded Hostages Square in Tel Aviv, anticipation for the other releases growing. Cheers rising as Evora hugged his family. And then the big moment. Eliya Cohen, followed by Omer Shem Tov and Omer Wenkert, all three of them noticeably thinner, paraded in Hamas's last scheduled public planned live handover.

Away from the cameras Hisham al-Sayed, hostage for a decade, too ill for the stage, quietly handed over, too. As their families began celebrations. Each of the hostage releases bringing hope to those still waiting. Yael Alexander, mother of Edan, the last living American hostage still held by Hamas.

YAEL ALEXANDER, MOTHER OF HOSTAGE EDAN ALEXANDER: We heard a lot of stories that Idan was standing up for people and trying to help them.

[19:20:01]

And they gave us a lot of strength to continue to do the fight and to make sure that every American understands that there is still one American hostage in Gaza, and he is alive.

ROBERTSON: Families of Palestinian prisoners and detainees kept waiting for their loved ones, while the Israeli prime minister held a security consultation, a violation of the agreement, according to Hamas.

Moments of reflection this day, too, for those Israeli hostages who didn't make it home alive, the Bibas family and Oded Lifshitz. His grandson Daniel hoping talks and releases can be extended through Islam's Holy Month of Ramadan. DANIEL LIFSHITZ, GRANDSON OF ODED LIFSHITZ: If we will make sure there

will be a release on the first day of the Ramadan of at least, let's say, 20 hostages, we can have 30 days to have secure conversations about getting to that point.

ROBERTSON (on-camera): There's a real hard and somber reality here in Hostages Square as people begin to drift away. They know this may be the last live hostage release that they get to come here and witness. No others are scheduled. They certainly hoped for. But it hasn't happened that there's an agreement yet. And that's a big, big issue right now.

Nic Robertson, CNN, Tel Aviv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: Nic, thank you.

And let's bring in Ian Bremmer, president of the Eurasia Group.

Ian, thank you so much for being here with us. I want to pick up on what we were talking about just there, that Israel is delaying the release of these Palestinian prisoners until they say that Hamas guarantees for their hostage returns and halts degrading ceremonies, exploiting captives for propaganda. I just want to get your reaction to that.

IAN BREMMER, PRESIDENT, EURASIA GROUP: I certainly accept that the media coverage of all of this is exactly the opposite of what Israel wants to accomplish. They've done a lot to destroy Hamas militarily. But Hamas is an idea, of course. Has likely gotten stronger, and Palestinians are only getting more radicalized. And you're showing that, of course, with the way that these bodies of hostages have been transferred. So I certainly understand why Israel is taking that perspective.

DEAN: And so we now are nearing the end of phase one with these -- the last living hostages that we were expecting to see released, being released today. There is, of course, the big question about phase two. Does it happen? If it does, what exactly does it look like? And in the meantime, as Nic was noting, there are a number of hostages that remain in limbo. So what do you think happens next?

BREMMER: It's interesting that President Trump has said it's up to Netanyahu. He doesn't seem to be putting much pressure on Israel either way. He was very, very firm that he wanted a ceasefire to occur. But now that it has, now that we've seen an American released, Trump is feeling a little differently.

You've also seen this in terms of his decisions and commentary around Gaza. First, it was, we're going to take it, the Palestinians are all going to leave. They're going to be depopulated. There was massive pushback in the Middle East. Then he backed off. And now they're saying, well, that was just a conversation starter. So I mean, frankly, this is a place where Trump is putting some lines in the sand, but they're in the sand. They're not red lines. And I think if Netanyahu decides that he

doesn't want to move ahead with phase two, he has a lot more flexibility to do that than one would have expected a few weeks ago.

DEAN: I also want to talk to you about Ukraine, the Trump administration pressing Ukraine to accept this deal on rare earth minerals as part of these wider negotiations to end the war. And according to a source familiar, this is our reporting, the draft of the deal is, quote, "not the one President Zelenskyy would accept."

We know that President Trump has been very aggressive with Ukraine. He said again and again he doesn't think they have any cards to play here. What do you think?

BREMMER: Well, I mean, it's interesting. If they have no cards to play, then you would have expected that the deal that the secretary of Treasury, Scott Bessent, put on the table in front of Zelenskyy and said, you've got to sign this would have been the same as the deal that he has just seen in the last 24 hours. And it turns out there's flexibility from the United States. So, I mean, obviously Zelenskyy must have a card or two.

And part of that is, I mean, the moral outrage from the rest of the world, because territorial integrity and the Russian invasion is at stake. Part of it is because the Europeans support Ukraine very strongly. And that's an alliance that, at least historically, has really mattered to the United States. And part of it is that Americans trust Zelenskyy a lot more than they trust Putin. And certainly the Republicans in the Senate and the House trust Zelenskyy a lot more than they support Putin and support Zelenskyy a lot more than they support Putin.

[19:25:03]

So maybe Trump is correct that Zelenskyy personally doesn't have any cards to play, but his position actually is relevant and has leverage in how Trump is responding to and people shouldn't forget that.

DEAN: Yes. And listen, I hear you when you're saying that there are Republicans in Congress that support Zelenskyy over Putin. The question is, does President Trump, and just in these last few days, it certainly has seemed that he has sided with Putin over Zelenskyy.

BREMMER: Correct. I agree with that. And again, Zelenskyy is a lot weaker than Putin is. So Putin is not exactly powerful compared to the United States economically, technologically, you name it. Having said that, the Riyadh meeting was extraordinary. It did reflect a unilateral impulse by President Trump to reset relations with Russia, led by Putin, who is seen as not just a dictator, but a war criminal, and doing that over the heads of America's most important allies, the Europeans, over the heads of NATO, which is the strongest collective security agreement in the world, at least up until now, and we'll see if that holds over the coming weeks.

So I agree with you, but the point I am making is that Trump's position with Zelenskyy and the deal that is being offered is different today than it was a few days ago. And maybe it will change even more in Ukraine's favor, or at least in a less punitive way in a more balanced way. Again, keep in mind what Trump is saying right now is that the Americans have to get their money back.

Now that's money that was given as military aid by the Biden administration, not Trump, but the United States to Ukraine, just as the Europeans have given aid to the Ukrainians. So it is the United States acting as if it's not consistent from one administration to the next. It shouldn't be believed or trusted from one administration to the next. We've seen this on the Iran nuclear deal. We've seen it on membership in the World Health Organization, in the Paris Peace Accords. We've seen this with America's commitments to the Trans- Pacific Partnership and then backing off.

I mean, the fact is, the United States is not China. It's not Russia. Not only in the fact that the U.S. is not a dictatorship, but also in the fact that the United States has foreign policy that changes radically from one four-year period to another, and that does undermine American power around the world.

DEAN: I also want to ask you about Germany, national elections there this weekend. And we have seen the rise of the far-right party in that country. What is your analysis of what's going on in Germany right now and these elections?

BREMMER: Well, we haven't seen the rise much in the past few months. In fact, the polls in Germany have been almost stagnant over the course of this election. The AfD looking like the Alternatives for Deutschland, the far-right party, looks like they will get about 20 percent, maybe 22 percent in the polls.

They're certainly not going to win. And all the other parties in Germany have what's called a firewall, which is they will not form a government with the AfD because they consider them to be a Neo-Nazi party. Now, that's obviously not the view of President Trump or Vice President Vance or whatever we're calling them, Elon Musk, bomb thrower-in-chief. And it's not their perspective. And they are working with them, and they are actively promoting them.

But frankly, that's caused backlash both among German politicians that are going to be leading the country after tomorrow's election and also among the rank-and-file in Germany. There is a backlash against the AfD because of this. Just like in Canada. I mean, the liberals were on life support. The conservatives were set to win. And then Trump started beating up on Canada, on tariffs on the 51st state. And now the liberals actually have a shot in a competitive election.

So there is a backlash in these countries that, of course, are not exactly thrilled with America first coming to their backyard.

DEAN: All right, Ian Bremmer, we really appreciate it. Thanks so much.

BREMMER: My pleasure. Sure.

DEAN: Still ahead, Elon Musk sending a message to all federal employees saying they're required to detail what they did last week to justify their job. We'll tell you what could happen if they don't do that.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:33:24]

DEAN: What did you do last week? It's a simple question with the wrong answer could have devastating consequences. Federal workers are receiving an e-mail tonight with that subject line. The e-mail telling them to outline their accomplishments over the last week.

It's coming just after President Trump's warning that remote federal workers must return to the office or they could be fired.

CNN's Betsy Klein is joining us now from the White House.

Betsy, we heard from President Trump at CPAC talking about remote workers. Then we heard from Elon Musk.

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE PRODUCER: Certainly, and not much to quell anxiety for the federal workforce, Jessica.

President Trump took a victory lap at CPAC speaking to a friendly crowd of supporters and allies, ticking off some of his key accomplishments, of course, taking aim at some of his political rivals. But he said that he believes he has a resounding mandate for dramatic change in Washington.

And to that end, Jessica, we have seen the President over the past few weeks in office dramatically reshape and reimagine the scope and scale of the federal government.

He's doing that along with Elon Musk, who he has tasked with really finding ways to cut federal spending and slash the federal workforce.

Trump at CPAC called Musk a patriot and said he is doing a great job. But as Trump was speaking, Musk was issuing a mandate of his own, an ultimatum to federal workers, saying, as you just detailed, list what you accomplished this week or be fired.

[19:05:20]

Musk saying in a tweet consistent with President Trump's instructions, all federal employees will shortly receive an e-mail requesting to understand what they got done last week. Failure to respond will be taken as a resignation.

Now, CNN has obtained multiple copies of that e-mail sent to federal workers across the federal government, some of which had that red exclamation point marking urgency. The subject line, as you noted, "What did you do last week?" It requests that they reply to that e- mail with five or so accomplishments CC'ed their manager with a Monday at 11:59 PM deadline.

Now, of course, there are federal workers who may be on vacation between now and that Monday deadline. There are federal workers who may not have access to a computer because of the nature of what they do. There are also federal workers who may be working with classified information. So, certainly a lot of questions moving forward -- Jessica.

DEAN: Yes, and we will see how this plays out. Betsy Klein at the White House for us. Thank you so much for that.

And still ahead, an asteroid headed toward Earth. It's not going to hit us, at least we're pretty sure it's not going to hit us, but we can learn from it.

We're going to be joined by Bill Nye "The Science Guy," up next, who says our government is blowing that chance?

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:41:14]

DEAN: A recently discovered asteroid named 2024 YR4 made waves this week, when NASA calculated the space rock had a 3.1 percent chance of hitting Earth in 2032, making it the riskiest asteroid ever detected.

However, a second update showed that chance dropping to 1.5 percent, that feels a little better. Still, astronomers have said there is much to be learned from studying the asteroid. And Bill Nye "The Science Guy" is joining us now.

Always a treat to have you with us.

Good evening to you.

Start first and give us some context for all of us out there who aren't asteroid experts. How concerning is this? And give us some context around it.

BILL NYE, "THE SCIENCE GUY": Well, there's two asteroids. The first one is Apophis, would name for one of the Egyptian deities of anxiety. That will miss in 2029 on Friday the 13th of April. It will miss.

But this new one, which probably been in space for a few billion years. So, it is that new, 2024 YR 4, recently discovered, may hit the Earth.

Right now, ESA, European Space Agency's latest number is 0.16 percent. Now, 0.16 percent sounds like a small number as an opportunity a chance to hit the earth. But you would not get in a car that had a 16 out of a thousand chance of killing you. It wouldn't even occur to you,

I mean, most people make more than a thousand car trips a year. You would not get in a car that was going to kill you within a year. You just wouldn't even -- you wouldn't do that. And so, it's a real thing. Now, it'll probably miss the more radar images are taken, the more telescope observations are made. The chance, the probability has been decreasing, but it's not zero. And so, this is a real thing.

You know, science fiction stories have been written for years about the possibility of an asteroid impact and when I was in elementary school, no one had a reasonable hypothesis as to what had happened to the ancient dinosaurs. But now everybody's pretty sure it was an asteroid, so it's a real thing -- Jessica.

DEAN: Yes, we'll would we'd really like to avoid that, if at all possible. So hopefully you're right. As time gets closer, maybe it just veers off slightly even more.

You wrote an op-ed I know for "The Hill". You said you're -- as you were saying that it's pretty certain -- that the asteroid won't hit us. But it does allow for the chance --

NYE: The first one.

DEAN: Yes, the first one, to be clear, the first one were talking about in 2029, I think you said, but it does allow for the chance to observe it closely, but that the government might be blowing this chance. Tell us a little bit about that.

NYE: Well, so, what we want to do is observe the asteroid on its way in, as well as on its way out. And so, right now, there are a lot of or a few organizations preparing or suggesting or trying to get funding together to catch up with the Apophis on its way in. But right now, there is no firm plan. And traditionally, NASA is the world's largest, space agency would lead the way on this, but that ball is being dropped, and part of the problem is we don't have an administrator.

So right now, while everybody's running around, very concerned about what's going on in Washington on thing that lawmakers could do would be to hire or certify or have committee hearings about a new administrator and the guy that's been suggested, Jared Isaacman is a very reasonable candidate. He's flown in space a couple of times. He's very thoughtful. He prepared very carefully. He, did a good job walking in space and so on.

I met with him for a few moments, at Blue Origin, waiting for the New Glenn rocket launch there at Cape Canaveral or nearby and, he's very thoughtful guy.

[19:45:24]

Now, with Congress holding other hearings and being concerned about other things, NASA is not preparing to catch up with Asteroid Apophis. And an interesting thing, there were two spacecraft built to catch up with another asteroid called Psyche. And because of the pandemic and supply chain things and so on, those two spacecraft didn't fly. They're sitting in a clean room, as I like to say, not gathering dust in Colorado. And they could be repurposed and catch up with Apophis on the way in, because although we observe asteroids and so on, we're not really sure for sure what they're made of.

Is it a solid rock? Is it a bunch of rocks held together loosely by their mutual gravity? Is it some other thing -- will it distort in Earth's gravity? These are all things that become very important someday, when it is time for humankind to, give one of these things a nudge, Jessica.

DEAN: Well and look to that point based on how you described it at the outset. Look, it probably would behoove us to have some more information right now leading in to this other asteroid.

NYE: Yes. So what we want to do you know, at the Planetary Society, we are the world's largest independent space organization, for example, were trying to get everybody in the world together and have what we call a dress rehearsal for deflecting an asteroid. There are several organizations preparing for this and or interested in this project, and it would be its just a real opportunity for humankind.

And another thing that happened when I was at Blue Origin that surprised me. I met several people that used to work at SpaceX, like they they've left SpaceX to go to Blue Origin, and Blue Origin had some layoffs recently. I understand that, but also, SpaceX is missing a deadline. You know, they have this capsule to go up and get Williams and Wilmore, but that capsule, there is sort of some musical chairs with that.

So while we are pursuing sending hackers into the U.S. government to undo it and bring it down and issue these panicked e-mails, it might behoove everybody who is lawmakers to take a breath and make sure the U.S. space program is on track.

These hackers being distributed in the government. The government was not set up to have to be taken apart from within, but it will have to be in the future or we won't get anything done and we will get hit with an asteroid ultimately.

DEAN: Well, let's hope that doesn't happen. But Bill Nye, thank you for --

NYE: Hope is not a plan, Jessica.

DEAN: That's true, that's true, hope not a plan and yes, you need a you need a firm plan. That's true. But thank you for being here. We really do appreciate it.

NYE: Thank you, guys. Let's lead the world, let's go.

DEAN: All right, Bill Nye, thanks so much. And we'll be right back.

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DEAN: New court filings are providing insight on immigration operations at Guantanamo Bay. Despite the Trump administration saying migrants who pose a high security risk will be sent there. These filings show that some are being deported to Guantanamo, are classified as a low safety threat. CNN's Priscilla Alvarez has more on this. PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The Trump administration this week nearly emptied out Guantanamo Bay, where they have been holding migrants who were transferred from the United States, all of them Venezuelan.

Now, new court filings are shedding more light on who, exactly the administration has been sending to Guantanamo Bay. This, of course, after President Donald Trump said that he wants to build out the facilities there to hold 30,000 migrants.

Now, these court filings show that 127 of those who were sent were considered high threat, while 51 were low to medium threat. Now, senior Trump officials have said that Guantanamo Bay is reserved for the worst of the worst. That, in reference to the migrants that are being sent there. But these new numbers show that not all of them are considered the high threats that they have been described to be.

Now, the Department of Homeland Security has also said that those that have been transferred have been connected to Tren de Aragua, the notorious Venezuelan gang. But again, there has not been evidence for all of these cases, nor identification of each of these Venezuelans to prove those connections. And these court filings are part of an ongoing lawsuit brought by immigrant advocacy groups who say that those who are sent there do not have access to legal counsel. So, this is a lawsuit to try to get that counsel to them.

But again, the Trump administration did deport those who were there to Venezuela via Honduras. That is a development that occurred this week. Now, the administration has signaled that they are planning to continue to send migrants to Guantanamo Bay, as they also work on expanding the facilities there.

In the meantime, the administration is also assessing other areas, including military bases in the United States, to house migrants before they are repatriated to their origin country. Back to you.

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DEAN: Priscilla Alvarez, thank you.

And tomorrow night on "The Whole Story" Anderson Cooper sits down with Bill Gates. Gates tells Anderson the biggest technological advance in his lifetime is not the personal computer or the iPhone, it's artificial intelligence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL GATES, AMERICAN BUSINESSMAN AND PHILANTHROPIST: This is the most profound technical advance in my lifetime. It is greater than, you know, chips, personal computers, all these internet --

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "THE WHOLE STORY": Really, bigger than personal computers.

GATES: Bigger than all those things, because its degree of matching and exceeding human intelligence both in a sort of for white-collar type activities but also through robots, for blue collar activities, it will be a profound change agent, and it is moving faster than I expected. This is pretty novel and both exciting in terms of taking the shortage of doctors and teachers and helping with that. But also, reshaping how we think about jobs and work.

COOPER: Does it scare you at all?

GATES: Yes.

COOPER: What scares you?

GATES: There's a great meaning and purpose that comes from these jobs.

As the computers get better and better, understanding what role they play versus humans and, you know, do we shorten the workweek? Do we let some people not work at all? It's pretty profound.

So over the next five years, almost entirely good things. But as you get into the ten years and beyond, it's so powerful that how we shape it and maintain, you know purpose, values, coherency -- this is a big challenge for humanity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Wow, Anderson Cooper's full interview with Bill Gates airs on "The Whole Story."

It's tomorrow night at 8:00 Eastern and Pacific right here on CNN.

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