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Musk Threatens Firings As Federal Workers Told To Justify Jobs; Zelenskyy Says He's Ready To Step Down If It Brings Peace In Ukraine; Pope's Still In Critical Condition With Signs Of Mild Kidney Failure; Polls Close In Germany's National Election; Angry Crowds Confront GOP Lawmakers At Town Halls Over DOGE Cuts. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired February 23, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:35]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me this Sunday. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

Federal workers across the country are even more on edge today as they face a new deadline and a grim ultimatum to justify their jobs or be fired.

This is the email that more than 2 million federal workers got yesterday. And it says in part, quote, "Please reply to this email with approximately five bullets of what you accomplished last week and cc your manager." The deadline is tomorrow night.

While the email does not mention consequences, Musk's social media post did. Elon Musk saying if they don't reply by Monday's midnight deadline, it will be viewed as a resignation.

CNN's Kevin Liptak is joining us right now. Kevin, this ultimatum is already getting strong pushback from some federal agencies and even unions. What are you learning?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, this has injected a whole new layer of uncertainty into the federal workforce, not just for the rank-and-file workers who had already been rattled by this attempt to shrink the federal workforce, but also their managers and senior leaders who really spent last night and this morning determining one, whether this email was legitimate and real; and two, what guidance to provide their employees as they move forward.

Now, this all seems to have stemmed from Donald Trump's message on social media yesterday, praising Elon Musk for his efforts to root out waste, fraud and abuse, but also saying that he wanted him to get more aggressive.

Elon Musk followed up by writing on social media that he planned to ask federal employees to recount their last week of work and if they didn't respond to this email, that they would be fired.

That was followed up by an email a few hours later, hitting inboxes of federal employees, telling them to write out five bullet points of what they did last week, and submit it by 11:59 p.m. tomorrow.

Now, what you have seen from federal employees and federal managers is a real range of views on how to proceed. So, for example, Kash Patel, the newly-installed director at the FBI, said that his agency would conduct their own reviews in accordance with FBI procedures. He says, for now, please pause on any responses.

You also saw a senior undersecretary at the State Department saying that no employee is obligated to report their activities outside of their department chain of command.

You've seen a number of other agencies, including the CIA, FEMA, the NSA, all instruct certain employees not to respond to this email, which I think underscores the fact that the federal government is doing all kinds of sensitive work. Even if it is not classified, federal employees are sort of trained to not necessarily divulge what they're doing to random emails that they get on a Saturday night.

So how does this all move forward? Certainly, President Trump is doing everything he can to shrink the federal workforce, but you're already seeing some backlash, including from certain Republicans.

Listen to what the new senator from Utah, John Curtis said this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN CURTIS (R-UT): If I could say one thing to Elon Musk, it's like, please put a dose of compassion into this. These are real people. These are real lives. These are mortgages. We -- it's a false narrative to say we have to cut and you have to be cruel to do it as well. We can do both.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Liptak: So already you're seeing the federal union that represents federal workers saying that this is cruel and disrespectful. Also questioning whether it is even legal.

But I think at the end of the day, the cruelty in some ways is part of the plan. Ultimately, president Trump and Elon Musk want to make the federal government such an unpleasant place to work for some of these federal workers that eventually it will be reduced in size.

Already you've seen 75,000 people take that buyout offer. Many thousands more are being laid off. But now, of course, these federal workers having a new dose of uncertainty about their futures going forward.

[14:04:50]

WHITFIELD: All right. Kevin Liptak, thank you so much from the White House.

All right. Joining me right now to talk more about these developments, Brian Stelter, CNN's chief media analyst. I'm also joined by Molly Ball, a senior political correspondent for "The Wall Street Journal". Great to see both of you.

All right. Brian, you first. I mean, this is, you know, again strikingly similar to what resulted from Elon Musk's Twitter takeover -- fork-in-the-road, ultimatums, justify what you've done. And similarly, this culling of the workforce is very public, while other clandestine plotting perhaps is private.

So is this the response to Trump wanting a more aggressive approach?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: That's the way it sure seems. That's the way it went down on Saturday, and now we're feeling the ramifications on Sunday.

Anybody who covered Twitter turning into X in 2022, anybody who covered Elon Musk's takeover of Twitter knows this playbook because it's precisely the same playbook.

Musk literally sent a text message to the guy who was running Twitter at the time in 2022. He was, you know, he was basically harassed, not -- not harassing -- he was fighting with the then CEO. And Musk said, quote, "What did you get done this week?"

Seven simple words that meant a lot, right. Because it was -- it was taking aim at the CEO, taking aim at the entire company and saying you're doing it wrong or you're not getting anything done at all.

So it's that same idea that he's now applying to the federal government workforce. Of course, the resistance has been really notable and continues to pour in all weekend long. (INAUDIBLE)

He claims that there are some employees on the federal payroll who are dead, and he's trying to figure out which ones are dead, because those won't reply to the email.

That's the new claim he's making on X, but there's obviously --

(CROSSTALKING)

WHITFIELD: Some people are just fearful --

STELTER: -- waiting to find out.

WHITFIELD: Right. Some people are simply fearful and they're not really sure.

(CROSSTALKING)

STELTER: Come on.

WHITFIELD: Yes. So Molly, I mean, this is all happening really fast. I mean, legal challenges generally move slow although this weekend there was a federal judge who delayed action on the elimination of some programs.

But, you know, can the courts keep up with this kind of flood-the-zone method? MOLLY BALL, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL":

It seems like they can't. And it does seem like that, too, is part of the plan that both -- that part of what unites Trump and Musk in this is their shared desire to move so quickly, that ability -- that the ability for the courts to keep up, for the political ramifications to keep up, for any kind of consequences to mount is somewhat limited because they are just acting so fast.

And the idea is that you sort of, you know, rip off the band aid and then you deal with the fallout afterwards. But the best way to actually get these things done is to do it quickly.

And I think we are seeing, you know, the courts in some cases try to grapple with what's happening. There are too many lawsuits to keep track of at this point. But if they were to, for example, say, you can't actually, you know, send this email and then fire everyone who doesn't reply, it will likely be too late.

It will likely -- we will likely already have seen a lot of people dismissed from their jobs by the time any court gets around to saying, you know, actually these people deserve to have their jobs.

WHITFIELD: Yes. And Brian, I mean, Trump's messaging, misinformation about the roles of federal workers. I mean, it's getting magnified, right, through Elon Musk. Either through Musk's kind of --

STELTER: Right.

WHITFIELD: -- chainsaw moment or his posts on X. I mean, how is this strategy elevating either support or anxiety or perhaps both?

STELTER: Yes, there's an echo effect. Trump and Musk echo each other in some -- in some cases, Musk pushes Trump to go further. In other cases, Trump pushes Musk to go further, as he did in public yesterday.

But you know, it is notable that, you know, Musk is, you know, doing things like taking polls of his fans on social media, saying, should we have to fill out a, you know, a five-minute survey. And of course, all of his fans say yes.

When you look at this concept in a very simple way, it makes a lot of sense. And lots of private sector employees do this all the time. They tell their managers what they've done this week.

And of course in the federal government, that happens as well. But Musk comes out and tries to say it in a very flat, basic way, in a way that appeals to people, because on one level it's common sense.

But then when you start digging, it gets really complicated really quickly. What about people who deal in classified information? They're not legally allowed to reply to the email asking what they did this week.

You know, it gets complicated really quickly. But Musk sometimes wins these really simple arguments where he tries to claim it's all really simple. It's not complex at all. That's the same strategy we see from President Trump.

And so it ends up appealing to some people and repulsing others at the same time.

WHITFIELD: Molly, you know, Trump -- Trump keeps saying, you know, he has a mandate. Republicans on the Hill so far largely defend the federal government slashing. But is this sustainable? I mean, these near what, maybe even 100,000 federal workers who are no longer working contribute to the economy?

[14:09:49]

WHITFIELD: I mean, soon they may not be able to pay rent or mortgage, pay for groceries. At what point will Congress be the check?

BALL: I think that's what we're all waiting to find out. And, you know, the Republicans that I've spoken to in Washington, including some lawmakers, they are still in -- principally in cheerleader mode. They do feel like directionally, this is the right thing to do.

Maybe they don't love the pace of it. Maybe they don't love how haphazard it's been. But for the most part, they feel like when Republicans win elections, it is because people want smaller government, less spending. They want a government that can shrink in size and have less control over all of our lives.

And so you do increasingly hear these qualms privately or below the surface. And we're starting to see those come out publicly as with that clip of Senator Curtis that you played.

More and more Republican lawmakers are saying, yes, I support this conceptually. Yes, I support the idea of it. But maybe not, you know, these particular workers in my state; maybe not these particular workers at an agency that, you know, if it fails, something catastrophic could happen.

Maybe not these particular -- and so, you know, one -- at the same time, another thing that we've seen is that the claims about cost savings, the claims about how many people they've actually gotten rid of have in many cases been inflated.

This -- this may not actually add up to that much in terms of the amount of people or the amount of money that they're able to actually cut. But you do see, we are starting to see and hear some Republicans start to wonder if they are at some point going to have to put the brakes on this.

WHITFIELD: Yes. And Brian, I mean, Kevin Liptak at the White House said something really striking that, you know, part of the strategy is make it so miserable to work for the federal government that some people will just want to quit.

I mean, that's quite remarkable. Is that at the root of this strategy?

STELTER: Right? Well, we've heard that from people like -- from some of Trump's aides saying that they believe that the federal employee base needs to feel vulnerable and needs to feel like they're suffering. We've heard that from the new director of the OMB, for example.

So this is a strategy. It should be viewed as a strategy, but it's not one without consequences. You know, people like Musk, even though they're incredibly powerful, they're not invincible. They are losing some of the fights they're waging.

For example, Musk, you know, today was arguing for the far-right party in Germany to sweep to power. Well, the far-right Germany did win some votes, but not at all swept into power. It came in about 20 percent of the vote.

So the point is, Musk is not all powerful, even though he has a lot of power and he's wielding it right now. And the fact that even Kash Patel at the FBI told his employees not to bother replying to Musk's email, that says something. You know, it says something here.

(CROSSTALKING)

STELTER: Yes, there is a strategy to lower morale, to get people to quit.

WHITFIELD: Right?

Ok, were going to have more on the German elections coming up as well in this hour.

Brian Stelter, Molly Ball -- but thank you for the heads up on. That was a good setup.

All right. Thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

STELTER: Thanks.

BALL: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. Still ahead, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says he is ready to resign if it guarantees peace for Ukraine. What this could mean for ongoing negotiations to end the war.

Plus --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My concern right now, and I think I speak for a lot of Americans, is Elon Musk.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Republican lawmakers taking the heat over the Trump administration's continued cuts to the government. We're looking into the backlash that appears to be growing now across the country.

[14:13:21]

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WHITFIELD: All right.

New today, a stunning concession from Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): If you really need me to leave for the sake of peace, I am ready to do so. I am focused on security for Ukraine today, not in 20 years' time. And I'm not going to hang around in power for decades.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: The U.S. has been in early talks with Russia to end the war in Ukraine, talks that have largely excluded Ukraine. A deal for Ukraine's mineral rights is also on the table, as President Trump demands repayment for previous military aid.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is in Kyiv. Nick, you were at the press conference. You questioned Zelenskyy. Tell us more.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Look, it's important, I think, to put some context around Zelenskyy's remarks about him resigning. He said that if it brought peace to Ukraine or gave Ukraine NATO membership, he'd be willing to step aside.

Now, just obviously, Ukraine's membership of NATO is pretty much impossible at this point. The U.S. is firmly opposed, and even if they were, it would take multiple years. So that one particular variant is frankly not something he's ever going to have to confront.

The question of peace, too, is also loose in that obviously, there would be significant instability if Ukraine had a change in leadership or elections at some point. And that could hamper any peace deal potentially as well, or settlement.

So the likelihood potentially of these either things occurring slim. But he's raised the issue of his departure or resignation after a fraught week of his relationship with President Donald Trump. And I asked him whether or not that particular relationship could be fixed.

[14:19:47]

WALSH: And also about progress on this rare earth minerals deal, which the U.S. is exceptionally insistent upon.

Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALSH: Do you think you can mend your relationship with President Trump?

And secondly, have the American side spelt out to you what happens if you don't come to an agreement over this rare earth minerals deal in terms of what it means for U.S. aid.

ZELENSKYY: As I said, we want a successful agreement. And if we will understand each other with partners, I hope that it will be. We will sign this the first agreement or memo? Memo on which base we will, I mean, I will prepare other documents.

So I hope that it will not have influence on other steps of the United States. And they will not cancel or stop or freeze any support, especially military support to Ukraine. That is crucial for us.

WALSH: If the president --

ZELENSKYY: My relationship with President Trump -- it never was in such best way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALSH: Now, laughter there. I think, a reaction to the exceptionally awkward and complex reality that it is essentially the animosity between those two men, whatever it's based upon or whether its solvable or not, that's overshadowed a week where the U.S. has been very stark in its demands for Ukraine to pay back debt that it thinks Ukraine incurred under the Biden administration.

Zelenskyy was clear today that the money they received under Biden's administration was bipartisan, congressionally-approved grants and not something that they consider they need to pay back.

He also talked about the headline figure of $500 billion being in this rare earth minerals deal as something, he couldn't possibly accept. $100 billion seems to be another number being pushed around now.

It was very clear hearing him talk, that we are far away in terms of Ukraine's perception from a deal being signed. This may be public negotiations, where in private things are closer together. And indeed his chief of staff, Andriy Yermak, left one earlier press conference to go and talk to U.S. national security adviser Mike Waltz and returned later on.

So there may be progress being made, but it's a stark deal that is very much not in Ukraine's favor. There seem to be very few security guarantees, if none at all potentially on offer.

And that also that awkwardness between Trump and Zelenskyy clearly on show there and Zelenskyy himself for the first time, sort of in public at a moment like this, talking about maybe he could step aside if it made peace happen for Ukraine, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Nick Paton Walsh in Kyiv, thanks so much.

All right. Let's continue the conversation now with David Sanger. He is a CNN political and national security analyst and author of the book "New Cold Wars"; and Daniel Fried, he is a former U.S. Ambassador to Poland.

David, you first. Your reaction to Zelenskyy saying that he is preparing to step down if it means peace for Ukraine?

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Fredricka, it's great to be on with you and with Ambassador Fried.

I wouldn't read too much into this as you heard from Nick before, the chance of them actually entering NATO is about zero. The U.S. has opposed it. It opposed it during the Biden administration, or at least opposed it happening anytime soon.

I imagine that it could be part of an overall peace deal, but it's all a question of how you define peace.

What I find most fascinating about this is President Zelenskyy's willingness to stand up to President Trump on the minerals deal. President Trump asked for $500 billion. The U.S. has given generously, if you would think of it, $180 billion to Ukraine in the past. More than $50 billion of which was just spent in the United States. So it's a great multiple of what the U.S. has spent.

And right now, there is no security guarantee in it for the future. In other words, nothing that would enable President Zelenskyy to say that if Russia violated the agreement and tried to grab Kyiv again, that the U.S. or any of the other allies would come to their aid.

WHITFIELD: And Ambassador, I mean, Ukraine, you know, has not yet been invited to the table of negotiations at this point, right. You've had U.S. representatives, Russian representatives, but Zelenskyy is bold enough to pipe in, you know, with a no to this natural minerals exchange idea, at least for now.

You were -- you have been in Brussels this week. We talked to you last weekend ahead of your trip, and you were going to be among people who have been discussing this war in Ukraine and Russia being the aggressor.

[14:24:55]

WHITFIELD: What are people saying about whether Zelenskyy is in a good negotiating position, given that he has been able to hold off Russia in this three-year war thus far?

DANIEL FRIED, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO POLAND: The Europeans I spoke to in Brussels and in Warsaw are astonished by the lack of coordination on the U.S. side. The sketch of the U.S. peace plan for Ukraine does have promise, and it was getting some traction.

The notion of a ceasefire in place and European forces on the ground in Ukraine may be backed up by American military power, but not troops stationed in Ukraine. That was picking up some traction.

And then the United States took things sideways by falling into this unnecessary fight with Zelenskyy, proposing a very weak U.N. resolution, which seems to be trying to curry favor with Russia and this business about the U.S. access to minerals.

I suggest -- I recommend that people read Secretary of Treasury Scott Bessent's article in "The Financial Times", which is the first time I've heard an American official describe this potential plan for access to Ukrainian minerals in a positive and constructive way. If Scott Bessent's characterization is accurate, it's not as bad as some initial reports.

But the point is that the Trump administration has trouble advancing a single position. It seems to be all over the map, and that is causing alarm among the Europeans for whom this war is a very big deal.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

FRIED: There is a way forward, but the administration needs to get its act together. It needs to up its game.

WHITFIELD: So -- so David, you know, here we are on the eve of the three-year anniversary of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. And this is what the White House envoy Steve Witkoff said on "CNN THIS MORNING" about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE WITKOFF, U.S. SPECIAL ENVOY TO THE MIDDLE EAST: The war didn't need to happen. It was provoked. It doesn't necessarily mean it was provoked by the Russians. There were all kinds of conversations back then about Ukraine joining NATO.

The president has spoken about this. That didn't need to happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: He sounds very similar. I know -- Ambassador, you're shaking your head. But David, I mean, he sounds very -- he's using the same kind of vernacular as Trump saying, you know, it was Ukraine who provoked this by even expressing an interest in NATO membership. I mean, how long is this going to go on?

SANGER: Well, good question. I think the best thing to do in this case, Fredricka, and I'd be interested to know if Dan agrees, is go back to what the national security adviser Mike Waltz or Secretary Rubio said in Congress at the time of the invasion. They placed the blame almost entirely on Russia.

It was Russia that invaded. It was Russia that seized land. It was Russia that acted illegally. And that was the view of Republicans as well as Democrats as they provided this aid to Ukraine.

You didn't see them providing aid to Russia on this side because they considered Russia to be the aggressor. It is only since President Trump has stepped in with this argument just in the past week, although there have been elements of it in things he said even back three years ago, that they have shifted their view.

WHITFIELD: And Ambassador, I know we are, you know, close on running out of time with the commercial break coming up. But you were shaking your head and I wonder, you know, what your feelings are about whether you can be a legitimate broker for peace with that kind of point of view on who provoked this war with that being a question.

FRIED: He's just -- Mr. Witkoff is just dead wrong. I know these issues. At the time of the big Russian invasion, NATO membership for Ukraine was dead in the water. Nothing was happening. Nothing was going to happen. And he ought to know this. The Russians knew it.

The Germans had said before the big invasion that they would block Ukraine going into NATO. So this was -- this is a Russian talking point. It's not reality.

Russia invaded not because it was worried about its security but because it wanted to conquer Ukraine. And that remains its aim.

The Trump administration does have a way forward. It had been getting traction on its plan. And they need first to get out of their own way. And second, to actually respect the facts.

And Steve Witkoff is unfamiliar with reality in this case. Sorry to be so harsh, but honestly.

[14:29:50]

WHITFIELD: All right. We invited you for your straight talk, both of you. Appreciate it. Ambassador Daniel Fried, David Sanger -- thank you so much.

SANGER: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. Coming up, signs of mild kidney failure. An update on the Pope's health from the Vatican.

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[14:34:32]

WHITFIELD: New details this afternoon from the Vatican about the health of the pope. Pope Francis remains in critical condition after suffering a, quote, asthmatic respiratory crisis, and now mild kidney failure.

CNN's Christopher Lamb is in Rome for us.

Bring us up to date, Christopher.

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fredricka, the Vatican explaining tonight that the pope had suffered this mild kidney failure, although that that is under control. His condition remains critical and the prognosis is still reserved, meaning it's too soon to tell.

It's obviously a concerning situation for Pope Francis. He has a history of respiratory infections. He is being treated for pneumonia in both lungs in the Gemelli Hospital, where he's been since last Friday.

The Vatican also saying tonight that he's still on high flow oxygen that was administered yesterday when the pope had an asthmatic crisis. Although we're told by the Vatican that that crisis has subsided. The Vatican also saying in a statement the pope participated in mass on the 10th floor of the Gemelli Hospital, where he's being treated. And we've seen prayers and good wishes coming in from across the world for the pope, including in Rome, where the pope was mentioned in masses in the Vatican and other churches, and also prayers coming from places such as the Al-Azhar University, the seat of Sunni Islam in Egypt. So we're expecting further updates from the Vatican tomorrow about Pope Francis's condition, Fredricka.

WHTFIELD: All right. Keep us posted.

Christopher Lamb, thank you so much.

All right. Still to come, Elon Musk and Vice President J.D. Vance supported Germany's far right party ahead of today's election. The polls officially closed now and votes are being counted. But did Musk's backing make a difference?

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[14:41:05]

WHITFIELD: All right. Polls just closed in a critical election to decide Germany's political future. Conservative parties capitalizing on immigration and economic concerns, with early exit polls indicating the center-right Christian Democratic Union and far right parties both making major gains. President Donald Trump posting his congratulations on his Truth Social account, saying this is a great day for Germany and for the United States of America.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen and Melissa Bell are live for us at those party headquarters in Berlin.

Fred, to you first. The center-right looks like it is returning to power. Is that right? What's the mood?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, it looks like they are going to be returning to power, but they are also not all smiles here at the Christian Democratic Union. On the one hand, they did get the largest share of the vote, and therefore the next chancellor of Germany most probably is going to be Friedrich Merz, who is very much a conservative. And in many ways they are closer to the Trump administration than, for instance, the current chancellor, Olaf Scholz, when it comes to the economy, certainly when it comes to migration as well.

However, when you look at, for instance, the topic of Ukraine and helping the Ukrainians, the conservatives here are saying, look, we need to continue to help the Ukrainians and to continue to provide them with weapons. And so, therefore, definitely possibly some friction there. The conservatives we've been speaking to, though, say they want better

relations with the Trump administration than the current German administration had that so far. The big question, though, is, Fredricka, in Germany, they have to form a coalition. And as things stand right now, the only parties they can do that with are on the other side of the political spectrum, the sort of left of center social Democrats right now with Olaf Scholz, who's currently the chancellor, and the Green Party, that is going to make it extremely difficult to govern here in this country, because the conservatives have said they are not going to form a coalition with the far right AFD -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Fascinating.

All right, Fred, thanks so much.

Melissa, so Elon Musk, I mean, he had shown his support for that far right party in the lead up to the election. How are members there feeling after they did nearly double their vote count from 2021 after all?

MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And I've just been speaking to the vice president of the party inside the bundestag, the German parliament, who said they were so grateful for both Elon Musk and Vice President Vance's comments that they had been a tremendous boost to their electoral fortunes and to the question that Fred was just answering, due to the proximity with the AFD and the current American administration.

Of course, even greater on the question of Ukraine specifically, this is, after all, a far right party that is not just insistent on closing Germanys borders, repatriating illegal migrants. You're a skeptic as well, leaving the euro in an orderly fashion. That's what Alice Weidel has said. But also, in the end, stopping arms shipments to Ukraine again siding with the American administrations position that it is time for Russia and Ukraine to sit down and for Europe to stop supporting at such great expense the Ukrainian people.

It's been a remarkable night for this party. Remember that here in Germany, for obvious historical reasons, there has been what they describe as a firewall around the far right that appears to have weakened at regional level. The hope for the party is that they're now going to manage that at national level, and that's what they intend to do with this doubling of their score. Nearly 20 percent here tonight in Germany, a historic result for a far right party.

Their intention now, Frederica, is very much to keep up the pressure on the city who they believe that it is a matter of democracy, very much what we've heard from the likes of Elon Musk and J.D. Vance over the last few weeks, that if that firewall is kept, which is much stronger here than elsewhere in Europe, for reasons that you'll understand historical reasons, if it is not weakened, if it is not abolished entirely, if the major established parties continue to refuse at national level with the AFD, then that will be a sign that German democracy, Germany's democracy, no longer exists. The people, they say, have spoken tonight, and it is time that the

government listen to them and allow the AFD to be a part of them. So, a very interesting few weeks and months ahead for this country. In fact, in the wake of their recent regional success. We heard Alice Weidel, the co-chair of the party, say that there can be no stable government in Germany henceforth without them, and that's one to watch, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Interesting, indeed. Melissa Bell, Fred Pleitgen, thanks to both of you.

All right. Still to come, Republican lawmakers in this country getting grilled for their support of Elon Musk's cuts to the federal government. The big question now, will they do something about it?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:50:32]

WHITFIELD: All right. We're following the latest backlash Republican lawmakers are facing from angry constituents at crowded town halls across the country. Issues ranging from jobs to tax cuts and DOGE's efforts to slash government spending are drawing some of the loudest boos from voters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you willing to use your subpoena power to act to say, Trump, or sorry, Musk, come in here. Stand in front of Congress and answer some hard questions.

REP. SCOTT FITZGERALD (R-WI): The end result of the fraud and abuse that has been discovered already. Oh.

REP. GLENN GROTHMAN (R-WI): He's getting rid of the DEI

(BOOS)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. Joining me right now, CNN correspondent Gloria Pazmino.

Gloria, lawmakers, I mean, they're returning to Washington this week. How do you see the recent public outrage to the DOGE cuts actually impacting what they do next on Capitol Hill?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Fred, you know, I think these lawmakers are getting a bit of reality checks in their districts. You can see the congressman's face there as the crowd is booing him. These are the people that put them in office. So the way that voters are reacting is going to be very important to them.

Now, perhaps all of this means that the honeymoon is over. Lawmakers are back in their districts during a recess from Congress, and they are hearing from their constituents. Both Republicans and Democrats who are frustrated with the Trump, with the way that Trump has been approaching his agenda so far. Some of the tactics that they are using specifically around the role that Elon Musk is playing in the federal government, federal layoffs. Also, a big topic of discussion.

And we've seen these town halls all across the country here in New York, in Georgia and Wisconsin, and last night in Trinity, Texas.

That's where Congressman Pete Sessions got an earful from his constituents. He was expecting that this was going to be sort of a routine update on what -- what he's been up to in Washington, D.C., but instead, he got a barrage of questions about the role that Elon Musk is playing, about the federal layoffs, and about why everything is happening so quickly.

I want to just show you some of what the constituents said during this town hall last night. And this is according to "The New York Times", a woman stood up and said, when are you going to wrest control back from the executive and stop hurting your constituents? This is a -- this was a question about mass layoffs and agency closures.

Then there was another person who got up and said, will you be courageous enough to stand up to them? That was from John Watt, and he was asking about Social Security benefits.

Now, Sessions at that point said that he was still looking to see what the Trump administration was going to do in terms of social security. So, that also creating a lot of frustration for these voters.

Now, many of these town halls have been held in person, but some lawmakers have been holding them via teleconference of town halls, which allows them to kind of control the crowd a little bit more and not get those loud boos and not get those pictures and videos of constituents shouting at them. But even there, they're getting a lot of criticism.

Take a listen to what a Republican retired U.S. Army officer had to say to Congresswoman Stephanie Bice in Oklahoma.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CONSTITUENT: How can you tell me that DOGE with some college whiz kids from a computer terminal in Washington, D.C. without even getting out into the field? After about a week or maybe two, has determined that it's okay to cut veterans benefits.

REP. STEPHANIE BICE (R-OK): Did you know that the V.A. was in charge of payments for illegals for -- for housing? Basically the V.A. --

No, I'd like for you to send me -- can you send me that reference so I could research that? Because no, I'm not aware of that. And I would tell you that that's a red herring, a false flag.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

PAZMINO: You heard a lot of this frustration from different callers asking questions about whether or not their benefits are going to be cut. People who are on retirement and a limited income concerned about what's playing out at the federal level, and many more of these town halls scheduled for this week, Fred, we expect them in Illinois, Missouri, Pennsylvania, just to name a few.

So it will be interesting to see if we continue to see this pattern -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: Yeah, it will indeed. And of course, when we get that tape, audio or video, we'll have to continue to show people what people are thinking and feeling and what kind of reaction they're getting from their members of Congress.

Gloria Pazmino, thank you so much.

All right. A new CNN original series tracks the mysterious circumstances surrounding the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, back in 1988. The series tracks the complex web of theories that emerged during the years-long global investigation that followed, and the unprecedented trial that played out on the world stage.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Over time, it occurred to me what a magnificent thing it would be if, as many of the mothers would participate in portraying themselves at the moment, that they learned of their loved ones' death. There is a hole in the mother's heart when her child is gone because they are part of our physical being. If it's a war, or if it's Pan Am 103, or if its September 11th, the picture the aftermath is always the same. This.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: The final episodes of Lockerbie, the bombing of Pan Am 103, airs tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, right here on CNN.

We'll be right back.

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