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Federal Work Asked To Justify Work Or Risk Termination; USAID Workers Place On Administrative Leave; Zelenskyy Willing To Give Up Presidency For Peace; War In Ukraine Provoked; Pope Francis In Critical Condition. Friedrich Merz Is Set To Become Germany's Next Chancellor; Musk Rips How Federal Government Processes Retirements. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired February 23, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:59:46]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: You're in the "CNN Newsroom." I'm Jessica Dean in New York. And tonight, confusion and chaos is spreading within a number of agencies across the federal government as many scramble to respond to an e-mail ordered up by Elon Musk. That cryptic and unclear e-mail sent to government employees asking, quote, "What did you do last week?" And then asking them to respond with a list of accomplishments before Monday at midnight. And according to Musk, failure to respond could result in their dismissal.

Now amid the confusion, tonight, multiple agencies apparently caught off guard by the e-mail are telling their employees to simply not respond until they receive more guidance. And that includes the FBI, the CIA, the Pentagon, and the State Department. On top of that, we have more breaking news just coming in as all USAID employees, with a very few exceptions, have just been notified that they will all be placed on leave starting at midnight tonight. Now this is following a federal judge's decision on Friday that paved the way for this move.

CNN senior White House reporter Kevin Liptak is joining us now. Kevin, let's start first with this news, really just breaking involving the U.S. Agency for International Development and its employees all around the globe. What are you learning about this?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIORE WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah, this is just the latest step in the Trump administration's assault on USAID. Last week, a federal judge clearing the way for the administration to essentially decimate the ranks of this agency. And today, agency officials learning that virtually the entire USAID workforce will be placed on administrative leave, receiving in an e-mail, a notification that as of midnight tonight, all USAID direct hire personnel, with the exception of designated personnel responsible for mission critical functions, core leadership, and/or specifically designated programs, will be placed on administrative leave globally.

In addition, the agency says that 2,000 people who work for USAID will be fired as part of this effort to really strip that agency of all of its power. Already, you've seen the administration remove the signs from that agency's headquarters just over town at the Ronald Reagan building. You've seen a number of officials already being stripped of their duties inside that agency. What Elon Musk and Donald Trump say they're doing is trying to eliminate liberal programs, programs that they allege are fraud.

But when you talk to people who work at USAID, who advocate for its programs, they say that this could cause serious hardships, not only for the officials who are working for the American government abroad, but for the people whose benefit this agency has been to their benefit, people who are working on the ground trying to prevent disease, trying to prevent hardships in places like Africa, like Asia, third world countries around the globe who say could significantly be affected by these moves, Jessica.

DEAN: Yeah, there could be a lot of ripple effects. I do want to also ask you about this e-mail from -- directed by Elon Musk to be sent out, and the confusion amongst a lot of agencies, a lot of federal employees who are getting that e-mail but also receiving something else maybe from their bosses. What more can you tell us about that?

LIPTAK: Yeah, it's injected a huge amount of uncertainty into the federal workforce, which had already been rattled by the first month of Trump's administration. But what I think is interesting now is it's not just the rank and file employees who are confused about how to proceed. It's some senior leaders at these agencies, including Trump appointees who are scrambling, one, to discern whether this e-mail is actually legitimate, but two, how to instruct their agencies to move forward.

And what we've seen today is a number of different agencies telling their employees not to respond. So for example, we saw the Pentagon tell its employees that it was responsible for reviewing their performance and that when and if required, it would coordinate responses to that e-mail going forward. You also saw Kash Patel, the new director of the FBI, tell his employees something similar saying for now, please pause on any responses.

You've heard from the State Department saying that it would respond to this e-mail and that they should not respond to activities outside the department chain of command. So what I think you're starting to see is some daylight between these Trump agency officials and Elon Musk. It's something we haven't necessarily seen up to this point and it does appear as if a standoff could be brewing between some of these Trump appointed heads and the DOGE, the Department of Government Efficiency, when it comes to who has responsibility for these federal agencies.

DEAN: Yeah, and who ultimately is in charge, right? Kevin Liptak at the White House for us. Thank you so much for that reporting. Let's turn now to developments in Ukraine where officials are tonight blaming Moscow for a, quote, "record drone attack" on the eve of the third anniversary of Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Officials say five regions across the country were targeted. At least one person in south central Ukraine was killed. All of this as Ukrainians President Volodymyr Zelenskyy announced he's ready to step down if it means bringing peace to his country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE (voice-over): If you really need me to leave for the sake of peace, I'm ready to do so. I am focused on security for Ukraine today, not in 20 years' time, and I'm not going to hang around in power for decades.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: That stunning concession coming after President Trump called Zelenskyy a, quote, "dictator" earlier this week. And just days after the U.S. and Russia held talks aimed at ending the war, talks that were held without any Ukrainian officials. CNN's chief international security correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh, is live in Kyiv now with more details on this. And Nick, I know you were at that press conference with President Zelensky. What did he tell you?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, I mean, look, it's important to put a bit of context into his remarks about resigning, if it brought peace to Ukraine or if Ukraine became a NATO member. The latter idea, well, that's been ruled out by the Americans, certainly in the immediate future, so Ukraine is not likely to become a NATO member to cause Zelenskyy to need to hand over his presidency to somebody.

And also to his suggestion that he would do that if it meant peace for Ukraine. Well, just the act of him stepping aside would either cause elections or some sort of anointed successor. I have no idea how any of that would even work. That would cause turmoil and so likely no peace. So it's far-fetched, I think, the remote, the circumstance in which this might occur. But the mere fact that he's suggesting that he could potentially step aside comes after a very bad week in relations with Washington where the personal acrimony between him and President Donald Trump has been on display globally.

And also too, well they struggle to come to agreement over rare earth minerals. Trump wants to see half a trillion dollars' worth potentially given by Ukraine to try and pay back for one and he says that they owe him and aid given under the Biden administration. They're publicly, both sides, still very far apart on that. And I asked Zelensky about that deal and also his relationship with Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALSH: Do you think you can mend your relationship with President Trump? And secondly, have the American side spelt out to you what happens if you don't come to an agreement over this rare earth minerals deal in terms of what it means for USAID?

ZELENSKYY: As I said, we want successful agreement and if we will understand each other with partners, I hope that it will be. We will sign this -- the first agreement or memo, memo on which base we will, I mean, I will prepare other documents. So I hope that it will not have influence on other steps of the United States and they will not cancel or stop or freeze any support, especially military support, to Ukraine. That's crucial for us.

WALSH: -- the President?

ZELENSKYY: My relationship with President Trump? It never was in such best way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALSH: Now, that awkward laughter there, I think, because, yes, it's been a horrific week, frankly, for those two men's relationship. It's been in free fall. But it's really the rare earth minerals deal that is such an urgent issue now for Ukraine. It isn't clear what happens to USAID military and otherwise if that deal is not signed. And publicly, Zelensky said in that same press conference, he doesn't accept that Ukraine is in debt with the United States. He sees the Biden administration's contributions as grants, which indeed they were grants that had congressional support as well.

So I think there's a lot of distance publicly between their positions. Hard to see how they suddenly reconcile. There may be better work happening in private and negotiations continue today. But his musing on his own fate and his relationship with Donald Trump, I think, just shows how precarious this last week has been and we are really seeing a stark deterioration in U.S.-Ukraine relations that has to be fixed fast for Ukraine's sake given Russian advances on the front line.

DEAN: All right, Nick Paton Walsh for us there and Kyiv. Thank you so much for that reporting. Joining us now, former Defense Secretary and CIA Director under President Obama, Leon Panetta, thank you so much for being here with us. I want to pick up there in Ukraine and I want to get your reaction to President Zelenskyy's suggestion. that he'd be willing to step down in exchange for NATO membership for his country.

LEON PANETTA, DEFENSE SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, he's obviously trying to see if there's a way to be able to arrive at some kind of peaceful solution here. Look, the fundamental problem here is that Ukraine has fought to protect their country. They spilled blood in order to stop the Russians from invading their country.

[17:09:55]

And the fact is that the Ukrainians as a result of that deserve a place at the table. You can't negotiate peace without having the country that has been invaded actually be part of those negotiations. And unfortunately, that's not what's going on right now. And it's creating a very confused and chaotic situation with regards to where we go.

DEAN: And do you see that situation that you just described, negotiations with Ukraine at the table as a realistic possibility, knowing what we know so far and seeing how this has gone so far?

PANETTA: Well, it should be. It should be. Look, you know, I understand that, you know, the talk is that somehow President Trump is a great dealmaker. I haven't quite seen that. He made a deal in his prior administration with the Taliban and the result was we lost Afghanistan as a result of that deal. He sat down for three meetings with Kim Jong-un from North Korea, and

he failed to achieve any kind of deal with North Korea. So I'm a little bit hesitant to kind of assume that somehow, he and Putin, who is the adversary here, who is the tyrant who invaded Ukraine, that somehow, they could find a peaceful solution and impose it on Ukraine. That simply is not going to work.

DEAN: And a part of these negotiations, and really as Nick Paton Walsh was just laying out, that kind of this pressing issue, this mineral rights agreement, if there could be an agreement, if there is what it might look like, the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, said this week that he really sees the mineral rights agreement between the U.S. and Ukraine as a security guarantee for Ukraine. That if they're all in it together. It's a security guarantee. Do you agree with that assessment?

PANETTA: Look, I think to kind of hold up the Ukrainians on mineral rights without providing any kind of security assurance as to what's going to happen with Ukraine in the future, it's not going to work. It's not going to work. Now, if you allow Ukraine to be part of the negotiations, if you want to then discuss what happens with their mineral rights as part of an overall solution, that makes some sense. But to try to cut these deals separately, I mean, if I were Zelenskyy, I'd be wondering why am I supposed to surrender some of my most important assets and get nothing in return?

DEAN: And I want to play a clip from White House envoy Steve Witkoff who has been involved in these talks. This is what he told my colleague Jake Tapper. We can listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE WITKOFF, U.S. SPECIAL ENVOY TO THE MIDDLE EAST: The war didn't need to happen. It was provoked. It doesn't necessarily mean it was provoked by the Russians. There were all kinds of conversations back then about Ukraine joining NATO. The president has spoken about this. That didn't need to happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: What do you think of those comments and how do you think, speaking of President Zelenskyy, how does he handle this when we hear various members of the administration up to President Trump suggesting that it was Ukraine that started this war?

PANETTA: Well, you know, my reaction is this is not peace through strength. It's peace through weakness. And what the administration is doing is simply capitulating to Putin and his view of what happened here. Look, Hitler was provoked, you could argue, because somehow, he thought he had a right to Czechoslovakia and to Poland and other countries. But ultimately, he invaded those countries and created World War II.

What's happening here is that, you know, regardless of who may or may not have been at fault, Putin, the tyrant, invaded with 300,000 Russian troops, a democracy, a sovereign democracy. And just like Hitler, the reality is that Putin is not going to stop until he succeeds. And it is important for the United States to draw a line on Putin. He cannot succeed because let me tell you, if he does, it will send a terrible message, not just to Putin, but to Xi and China, to Kim Jong-un in North Korea, and to the Supreme Leader in Iran, that America is weak.

DEAN: And look, China has its eye on Taiwan. I mean, to your point, everyone is watching to see how this plays out.

[17:14:58]

I do want to ask you before I let you go, you were the head of two government big, very important government agencies. We have thousands of government workers right now who have this e-mail at the direction of Elon Musk. There's a lot of confusion about asking them to list the five things they do. If they don't do it, it'll be taken as a resignation. It's just part of this broader effort, of course, to overhaul the federal government, dismantle huge parts of the federal government.

What would you tell those federal workers? And they're confused because there's also, at the FBI, Kash Patel saying, hang on, don't respond, we'll take care of this. There's just a lot of confusion.

PANETTA: There is, there's a great deal of chaos. There's a great deal of disruption. And that too, very frankly, is contributing to the weakness that America is viewed on by not just our adversaries, but by our allies as well. Look, there is a way to do this. I was OMB director for Bill Clinton We achieved $500 billion in savings, but we did it in an orderly way. We did it in the budget.

We provided funds for those that were working. We cut funds for those programs that were not working. And we did it in an orderly way. And that budget was passed by the Congress. There is no order here. There is no strategy here. This is simply Elon Musk waving his chainsaw and assuming that somehow that's going to work. It's not going to work. It's going to hurt people terribly and it's going to hurt our country.

DEAN: And just to the people out there because there are a lot of Americans who see him waving the chainsaw. We saw it at CPAC. There are people that are cheering this. This is what they want. But what do you say to them in terms of the -- maybe unintended consequences that may come down the pike with the way this is being done?

PANETTA: Look, having had a lot of experience in government, there's a right way to do this, and there's a wrong way to do it. The right way to get efficiency in government, and the right way to reduce the size of government is to carefully analyze programs, to carefully analyze departments and agencies, to work with the leaders of those departments and agencies, and to then come up with a budget that reflects those steps. That's the right way to do this.

The wrong way is what they're doing now. By issuing every other day some kind of order to some agency or other that they're gonna fire everybody. That is not the way to run our government. It hurts people and it hurts our country. They've got to get their act together and do this right.

DEAN: All right, Leon Panetta, thank you for your time. We really appreciate it.

PANETTA: Thank you.

DEAN: Still ahead, another concerning update on the Pope's health. Doctors now saying he has signs of kidney failure. We're gonna be live in Rome, and we'll also speak with the doctor about what this could mean for the 88-year-old pontiff. You're in the "CNN Newsroom."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:20:00]

DEAN: Pope Francis remains in critical condition at this hour. The Vatican announcing a short time ago blood tests now show mild signs of kidney failure. CNN's Christopher Lamb is in Rome. He's joining us now with the latest details. Christopher, what are doctors saying currently about the Pope's condition?

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well Jessica, the Vatican updated us this evening to say that the Pope, as you mentioned, remained in a critical condition. He's still receiving high flow oxygen because yesterday on Saturday he had an asthmatic respiratory crisis. That has now subsided but as the Vatican explained this evening, the blood tests have shown a mild and initial kidney failure, which they say the Vatican is under control, but clearly this is a very complex clinical picture for the Pope.

He has been in hospital at Gemelli in Rome since last Friday, and he's been treated for pneumonia in both lungs. It is a very concerning and critical situation. We were told by the Vatican the Pope participated in mass on the 10th floor of the Gemelli Hospital is being treated and we also received a message from the Pope, a written message saying that he continues his hospitalization at the Gemelli with confidence and he is grateful for the prayers and well wishes that he has received.

There have been an outpouring of prayer from across the world for the Pope. He's a very popular and much loved Pope and there were prayers said in Rome today and in the Vatican. Clearly, this is an ongoing and developing situation for the Pope. We are hoping to have more updates from the Vatican tomorrow, Jessica.

DEAN: All right. Christopher Lamb with The Latest in Rome. Thank you for that reporting. And I want to turn to CNN medical analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner now. He's also a professor of medicine and surgery at George Washington University. Dr. Reiner, good to see you. Thanks for being here.

[17:25:00]

I just want to get your reaction first to this new news, the blood test showing mild kidney failure. What does that suggest to you and how do you read that? JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Yeah, Jessica, it suggests that

the Pope is declining now. First of all, I'm impressed with the level of detail coming out of the Vatican. Typically, an entity like the Vatican or Buckingham Palace or the White House would tell the public about the health of a principal only what they really want the public to hear. And now I think we're being told what the Vatican thinks we need to hear and the message is that pope is deteriorating.

The kidneys function to filter fluids and electrolytes and remove toxins, but the kidneys themselves are very sensitive to changes in the overall status of the patient, including blood pressure and overall, whether the patient is septic. And any serious illness can cause a significant decline in kidney function. In a critically ill patient like the Pope, the kidneys are sort of the proverbial canary in the coal mine. And once you start to see kidney function deteriorate, that is often a very ominous sign.

And coming 24 hours after what sounds like an urgent episode where the Pope had difficulty breathing and needed to be placed on high flow oxygen, the decline in his kidney function suggest a significant deterioration in his overall status.

DEAN: And I know when we talked to you yesterday, you were reminding us that as a doctor, what you're looking for is kind of how they're doing over a period of time. What's the trajectory? Are they getting better day by day or are they declining day by day? And so I'm curious what the next development. Obviously, this is a setback as you just noted. What is the next development you would be watching for now as a doctor?

REINER: Right, so when I talk to the family and patients who are critically ill, you know, I talk about these series of hurdles that the patients need to get over in order to recover and I urge patients and we go over these hurdles together, you know, one by one. But again, as I said yesterday, we really want to start to see an overall uptick in the patient's health.

Their oxygen requirements starting to lessen and we heard ominously yesterday that the Pope's oxygen requirement was worsening. Improvement in other metabolic indicators, and now again we hear today that the patient, the Pope, has developed some evidence of kidney dysfunction. So these are all negative indicators.

What I would love to see and hope to see and I think what the world is praying to see are messages saying things like the option requirement for the Pope is now significantly less. The pope's kidney function has normalized. The pope is starting to walk in the hallways. But what we're getting, unfortunately, I think, that the tenor of the messages from the Vatican is an overall picture of a critically ill man who does not appear, at least at the current time, to be recovering very well.

DEAN: Yeah. And just a reminder, yeah, he's 88-years-old, has had problems with pneumonia before, had part of his lung removed years and years ago. So, all right, we'll wait for more information, but Dr. Jonathan Reiner, thank you so much for giving us some analysis there. We appreciate it.

REINER: Thank you, Jessica.

DEAN: Still ahead, results are coming in after Germany's elections. What the far-right party is on track to -- why -- where the far-right party is on track to have their strongest showing since World War II? We're gonna break it down for you ahead. You're in the "CNN Newsroom."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:29:59]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Germany's far-right party is celebrating an unexpectedly strong showing in the country's national election. Exit polls show the anti-immigration AfD Party surging to second place with just under 20% of the vote. That is the strongest election showing for any far-right party in Germany since the Nazi era. You can see the AfD percentage there in red. The majority center-right CDU, that's the yellow you see, is predicted to win the election and the chancellorship with 28% of the vote.

Our Fred Pleitgen is in Berlin. Fred, help us understand here in America what this means for Germany and what we're seeing play out.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it certainly means a shift in Germany towards more conservative politics, a little bit of a shift to the right as well. And you're absolutely right, the conservative Christian Democratic Union, they did win this election. So, the next chancellor here in Germany is most probably going to be Friedrich Merz, who is the head of the conservative party.

And folks at that party, I was actually there tonight, they were already talking about bringing Germany's economy back on track. Also, as far as migration is concerned, certainly trying to water that down a little bit compared to the Scholz era.

And Olaf Scholz, and his time is apparently over in the chancellery very soon, the social Democrats, his political party acknowledging that it was a huge defeat for them. And Friedrich Merz then saying he wants to get going with governing as fast as possible to bring Germany back on track. Here's what he said.

[17:34:58]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRIEDRICH MERZ, LEADER, CHRISTIAN DEMOCRATIC UNION (through translator): It's important that we get a government for Germany that is able to act with a good majority in parliament because, dear friends, the world outside is not waiting for us and it's not waiting for long-lasting coalition negotiations. We need to be able to act very soon so that we can do the right things domestically so that we are present in Europe, so that the world takes notice and sees that we have a reliable government in Germany.

(END VIDEO CLIP) PLEITGEN: So, there you see him talking about forming a government quickly to solve all those problems he was talking about. The big problem is that you have to form a coalition here in this country. And the conservatives have already said they're not going to work with a far-right alternative for Germany. So, they are probably going to have to form a coalition with more leftist-centered parties and that could make it quite difficult to not only get that coalition going, but then to tackle a lot of those political problems as well, Jessica.

DEAN: And we're also hearing from the AfD after their surge. What are they saying?

PLEITGEN: Hmm. Well, they're essentially saying, look, work with us because the -- what's called the centrist democratic parties here like the conservatives but also the sort of left of center parties, they've constructed what they call a virtual firewall around the alternative for Germany, saying they're not going to work with them. And the AfD is saying that needs to stop. They believe that the voters here in Germany have spoken, and they want the AfD to be in the government. Here's what one of their party leaders said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEATRIX VON STORCH, AFD MEMBER, GERMAN PARLIAMENT: We have to get rid of all those people who are illegally under German law in Germany first hand. And then we have to get everyone out who came in from Syria fleeing Assad and then celebrating the fall of Assad in the streets of Germany. So, they have to go voluntarily. If they won't leave, we will help them out. And same with those from Afghanistan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PLEITGEN: That, of course, also the political party that received a lot of help from Elon Musk during their election campaign. Musk is saying he believes only the AfD can save Germany as he put it, much to the dismay of most of the other parties in Germany who say they want to get governing without the AfD in office, Jessica.

DEAN: All right, Fred Pleitgen, thank you so much for that reporting. Still ahead, what Elon Musk got wrong about why federal retirements are still processed out of a limestone mine. More on this when we come back. You're in the "CNN Newsroom."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: As Elon Musk and DOGE bulldoze their way through the government, he is taking aim at how federal retirements are processed by hand in an old limestone mine in Pennsylvania. Now that's true, but workers there say while the system is far from perfect, some of Musk's claims are not accurate. CNN's Gabe Cohen has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Beneath the rolling hills of Western Pennsylvania --

really is just off some rural road.

(Voice-over): An old limestone mine house is one of the most remote and secure government offices.

You can see the entrance. It looks like that's about as far as you can get before you have to go through security.

(Voice-over): Nearly 700 civil servants here process almost every retirement from the federal workforce.

We're here in Butler County because of recent comments that Elon Musk made about this facility and about the people who work here, comments that have really rocked this rural area.

ELON MUSK, CEO OF TESLA MOTORS, LEADER OF DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY: There's a limestone mine where we store all the retirement paperwork.

COHEN (voice-over): From the Oval Office last week, Musk criticized the operation as one that epitomizes government inefficiency.

MUSK: It's like a time warp. And the elevator breaks down sometimes, and then nobody can retire. You can do practically anything else and you would add to the goods and services of the United States in a more useful way.

DANIEL BONGINO, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, CONSPIRACY THEORIST, RADIO SHOW HOST, AUTHOR: Is this the freaking Flintstones?

COHEN (voice-over): Those comments got a lot of pickup.

JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST: Musk wants to rescue these government gremlins from working underground.

Does President Trump promise we're going to shut this cave down?

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Yes, he does.

COHEN (voice-over): The federal workers here are on edge. They got a memo warning them not to talk to reporters.

Are you ready?

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Yep.

COHEN: Okay. How are you feeling?

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Good. Better.

COHEN (voice-over): And yet five of them and a former supervisor sat down with us because they say many of Musk's claims were false. We're masking their face and changing their voice because they're scared of retaliation.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Everybody has kind of been silenced at this point. We all need these jobs.

COHEN: Tell me about that elevator.

MUSK: And the elevator breaks down sometimes, and then nobody can retire.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): There's no elevator. No elevator at all. You walk down into the mine, it looks like any other office building.

MUSK: The most numbers of people that could retire possibly in a month is 10,000.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): I'm not sure where that number came from.

COHEN: There is no limit.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): There is no limit.

MUSK: All the retirement paperwork is manual.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): That is not true. It's not.

COHEN (voice-over): Built in the 1950s, transformed from a mine, it was renovated over the years into a temperature and climate-controlled facility. It's owned by a company called Iron Mountain. And private companies also store vulnerable items like film reels and photographs.

But it's not just Musk who criticizes the processing of retirement claims. For years, this office has been criticized for processing too slowly, over-reliance on paper, and insufficient staffing. Some of the workers we spoke to agree the system needs updating.

[17:45:01]

But completely shutting this facility down would devastate Butler County where the federal government is the biggest employer. It's also Trump country. He got nearly two-thirds of the vote here, and the mine is just 20 miles from the fairgrounds where he was nearly assassinated.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Sit down, sit down, sit down.

COHEN: Did you support President Trump?

JASON MCBRIDE, MARION TOWNSHIP BOARD OF SUPERVISORS: Yes. I think he's the president of the people. That's the message this area has. I need two large for the underground.

COHEN (voice-over): Jason McBride is a supervisor in this tiny town.

MCBRIDE: Thanks for choosing McBride. Could I help you?

COHEN (voice-over): And runs the only restaurant, this pizza shop. MCBRIDE: Okay, buddy. What's your number? I'll give you a call when I enter the mines.

COHEN (voice-over): They deliver into the mine almost daily.

MCBRIDE: I just would hate to think that a stroke of a pen in Washington D.C. could change the future of our area. Whether you're the gas station or you're the pizza guy, it would be detrimental to all of us.

COHEN: If he shuts down that facility, will you still support him?

MCBRIDE: No. We'll have to wait and see on that. Good people dedicated their lives to this facility for the federal government, and they deserve to be heard.

COHEN: Who did you vote for in November?

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Trump. First time I ever voted.

COHEN: First time you ever voted.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): I was never even registered to vote before that. When he talked about government employees, we didn't think that was going to be us. I wish I could take it back because I feel like now my whole livelihood could be changed because of him being president.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: All right, Gabe Cohen, thank you for that reporting. The final episodes of Lockerbie, the bombing of Pan Am 103 air tonight right here on CNN. And just ahead, we're going to be joined by an eyewitness and one of the first people to respond to that devastating crash. We'll talk to them. You're in the "CNN Newsroom."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: Tonight, the final two episodes of "Lockerbie: The Bombing of Pan Am 103" air right here on CNN. Two hundred and seventy people were killed on December 21st 1988, including 190 Americans, when that plane blew up over Scotland, crashing to the ground on its way from London to New York. It was the deadliest terrorist attack against the United States before 9/11.

And joining us now from Scotland is Colin Dorrance. And Colin, you were a new police officer, just 18 years old at the time, driving to Lockerbie for a Christmas party. When you saw that plane crash, you rushed to the scene. Tell us about what you saw in those first moments.

COLIN DORRANCE, WITNESS TO LOCKERBIE BOMBING: Well, thank you for having me on, Jessica. And yes, it was a -- it was a shocking, confusing time. As you said, that night was supposed to be about a Christmas party and fate had it, I was never going to get to that party. I was 30 seconds away from the hotel, which was also very close to the crash site. And I witnessed what turned out to be the wing section of the aircraft hitting Sherwood Crescent. Had it been 20 seconds further on the road, then I would have been involved in being struck by the debris and so on.

As it was, I diverted along a side road to the crash site. And it was -- it was confusing in that it was dark. So, very few people saw and comprehended this was an air crash. It could have been -- many people thought it was a local gas station that had exploded because it was near the crash site, too. And only one or two people really saw that this was an aircraft. They could hear engines roaring. I didn't because I was in the car.

It was only when I got out of the car and spoke to a police colleague of mine who was on duty that night -- he heard jet engines. And we assumed, in fact, initially, it was a military aircraft that had maybe been on a flying mission as they routinely rare at that time that had been crashed into the town. Little did we know it was a Boeing 747 on its way to New York. That took about 40 minutes from the initial explosion to establish in Lockerbie. It was only once we were told by air traffic control what happened that we were able to begin to even process what happened.

DEAN: Right, it's just so unbelievable. Your brain can't even kind of go there until you -- you would never imagine that that's what would have happened. Talk about the small town of Lockerbie, how it came together in the aftermath of this tragedy and what that was like.

DORRANCE: So, Lockerbie is a small town of 4,000 population. It's on the main routes, both rail and road, between Glasgow and London. So, we're used to having visitors pass through and pass by the town but, otherwise, it's a very small rural area. Everyone knows everyone else. And it serves a large kind of rural area that the local villages all send school children to the main secondary school in Lockerbie.

And that's what happened to me. I actually didn't live in Lockerbie at the time. I came from a village just outside, but went to school in the town with about 1,200 other pupils. I had graduated from school, just attended police college and was away studying, you know, police work and so on. Had just graduated from that and left, and was on my first day's holiday for Christmas when the tragedy happened.

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So, I found myself back in my hometown where I went to school with this international incident having unfolded right in front of me. And many of the people I knew and grew up with having to deal with that, the trauma of it. Many residents saw things that really no one would ever want to see. Some of my school friends, family, were involved directly. No one in the town was unaffected. It completely engulfed everyone.

Because it was a high-level explosion, there was a large debris field that affected the farms to the east of Lockerbie for miles around. So, hundreds of people were traumatized by what happened and really shell- shocked. Christmas was just cancelled. And for weeks afterwards, no one lived a normal life. In fact, the town hasn't really returned to a complete normal even to this day one way or the other.

DEAN: Yeah, those experiences, that trauma, as you say, it doesn't go away. Colin, thank you so much for being here with us, for sharing some of your thoughts about this. We really appreciate it.

DORRANCE: No, you're welcome.

DEAN: Uh-hmm. And tune in the final episodes of "Lockerbie: The Bombing of Pan Am 103," air tonight, Sunday, at 9 p.m. Eastern Pacific, only here on CNN.

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