Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Roberta Flack Dies; Does DOGE Risk Exposing National Security Secrets?; Interview With Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX). Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired February 24, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:31:02]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Across the country, Republicans in Congress are getting an earful back in their home districts about the sweeping budget cuts and federal worker layoffs by Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency.

Various constituents are showing up at town halls demanding answers and accountability.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you willing to use your subpoena power to say to Trump -- or, sorry, Musk, come in here, stand in front of Congress and answer some hard questions?

REP. SCOTT FITZGERALD (R-WI): The end result of the fraud and abuse that has been discovered already...

(BOOING)

REP. GLENN GROTHMAN (R-WI): He's getting rid of the DEI.

(BOOING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Let's discuss with Republican Congressman Pete Sessions of Texas. He sits on the Financial Services and Oversight committees. And he's a co-chair of the House DOGE Caucus.

Congressman, thank you for being here.

You held a town hall there over the weekend. You had one of your own. There were certainly some there who support DOGE. But much of the pressure came from constituents of yours who were expressing grievances about how DOGE cuts could impact them and why Congress isn't doing more about perceived overreach by Trump.

What are you going to do with the feedback you received at that town hall?

REP. PETE SESSIONS (R-TX): Thank you very much. First of all, I'd say anybody who was there would have disagreed with

the article that was in "The New York Times." It was a very thoughtful, articulate meeting, where people expressed their views. I provided them information, data, and understanding about where we're trying to head.

And it really was not only quite civil. I think that every person that was there felt like it was worth their time. And so I'd like to say that I do recognize that the American people have questions and they do need answers. And we owe them those answers. But it is certainly one that finds itself and lends itself to not all the answers are necessarily available right now.

So, feel free. Any question that you have got, I'm ready.

BROWN: What did you learn? It's important, as you know, to get outside of the bubble in D.C., go talk to your constituents. And what did you learn from talking to them and some of the concerns that they have about what's happening in Washington?

SESSIONS: Well, thank you.

The -- I go back to Waco, Texas, or the district every single weekend. I meet with people on a regular basis. We have discussions, talks. My office is very open. People can e-mail me. I call people back. I write them.

The feedback that is coming is one that is very understandable. When the new administration, whether it be President Obama, whether it be President Trump, whether it be President Biden, has an agenda that they would choose to then play out, President Biden had a very quick start.

I think President Trump has a very quick start. So the things that are occurring are not always apparent to everybody. But our country has faced a change. A change was voted for Donald Trump to bring some of those changes.

One of them is our physical, our financial nature that the country is engaged in. We are going to, as a result of not just, we think, the American people, but a demand by Congress, we are going to have government workers come back to work. Whoops. That's square one fight right off the bat.

And we're still engaged in that battle. The president, I think, openly offered anybody that did not want to come back to work, he gave them 10 months where they could then admit that they did not want to come back and they would be paid. I felt like that was not only the right thing to do. It was very benevolent.

Even that is being fought right now. So, they -- we are going through a circumstance where we need government workers. So, out of the Office of Personnel Management, people are receiving e-mails saying, please, give us an idea about what your job is. Please feel free to tell us that.

[11:35:17]

And agencies are now saying, don't respond back. Well, that's the wrong thing. Just because you tell us what you do and what importance that is, is not an indication that we would not respect that. OPM is needing that information. OMB, on the...

BROWN: So you think, like -- like Kash Patel, I mean, some of these people saying that are Trump -- people that Trump put in these agencies. You think the people like him are wrong to say, don't respond right now, we have our own process in play?

SESSIONS: Well, I would simply say if an official from the government, Office of Personnel Management, OPM, is asking for data and information, I would think that they could respond back very favorably and say, let me tell you who I am and what my job is and the importance of my job. And here's what I achieved last week.

BROWN: So...

SESSIONS: Of course, that would be important to do. I don't offer any feedback about an agency head about whether they said do or don't do that.

I would say an outside organization other than in this case the Department of Justice asked a question, and I would respond back.

BROWN: And some of these agencies believe, some of the officials there believe it's usurping their chain of command. But there are -- President Trump has made clear he supports this effort.

I want to dive in a little bit more to the impact of these federal employees in just a moment. But I want to ask you something, because you brought up constituents get upset from different administrations and what their policies are, and this is in line with that.

During the Biden administration, you supported legislation that would have mandated more oversight on Biden's executive orders, which you said were causing -- quote -- "out-of-control inflation."

And the White House so far has touted that they have had more executive orders now compared to Biden and other administrations. Given the intensity with which Trump is using executive actions, should he be subject to that same oversight?

SESSIONS: He is subject to that oversight.

The difference is, is that what President Biden did was tell employees to stay at home, open up the border, change dramatically America's security posture by allowing the lack of rule of law. This is, I think, what might be the opposite, and that is you have got to come back to work. You need to tell us what you do. You need to be a professional and responsible, and if you do not want to come back to work, just let us know. We need to know what we're working with.

As you know, over any given three-year period of time, the government, through GAO, is dealing with a $1.7 trillion worth of waste, fraud, and abuse. We need government workers back at work. We need databases that correspondingly provide information.

(CROSSTALK)

SESSIONS: That's why. That's why.

BROWN: I mean, they have already been ordered back to come to work.

But with 6,600 federal workers in your district, what are you telling them? How concerned are they with losing their jobs, what impact this could have on them and their families? We have talked to many, including veterans. I spoke to one this morning, who said, I have had a lifetime of service to this country. With my military service, I found purpose working for the federal government. I have only gotten good reviews, and now I'm laid off.

SESSIONS: Well...

BROWN: What do you say to people like that and veterans? Should they be laid off?

SESSIONS: You know, I don't really know which agencies. I know that, like, the FBI is going to reassign people.

But I think that if someone were to send you a question, if you're in the VA, if you're in the 17th District of Texas, you should respond back and correspondingly send our office, we're attempting to comply. I would like my job. I'm back at work, and here's that -- what I do to perform.

And then we will make that determination of trying to work with the agencies to come back and say, we believe these are critical jobs. I believe that they are, and I believe the VA is very important.

And we will be very pleased to engage on their behalf. But let's go to the top side. The top side is, is that our government is filled with at least 100,000 people that would wish to leave. Once that is known and understood, that will offer some clarity as to how many and how many would be working on a job to perform that.

They still have an obligation to perform a job that needs to be done, and that was -- is what I as congressman would want them to do.

[11:40:02]

BROWN: But do you think veterans, in particular -- again, you're a big supporter of veterans. Do you think those veterans who had good reviews, who had military service and found purpose in their service in the federal government, they should be laid off?

What do you think should happen to veterans in particular?

SESSIONS: Well, you're asking a question not knowing, I don't know enough about necessarily the VA. The VA, we need to, and we will get in and do our oversight. How many people in the VA said, did they want to leave? What are those critical jobs? But you will also recall that the

Veterans Administration completely ran out of money and they had to have $15 billion added to them last September, because the money had been absconded with and went to help the border and illegals coming to this country, at least $15 billion.

So one would question some wide wisdom. And they're trying to make a determination to how many workers do we need and what are those advantages going to be?

BROWN: Right, and you're correct about the $15 billion.

But -- and on the veterans, it wasn't just at the VA, I spoke to a veteran this morning from USAID who was expressing the sentiment. I have spoken to others as well.

I wish we had more time. Congressman Pete Sessions, I appreciate the thoughtful discussion. Thank you.

SESSIONS: Yes, ma'am.

BROWN: And I look forward to having you back on the show.

SESSIONS: Yes, ma'am.

BROWN: Well, still ahead this hour: Some intelligence officials say Elon Musk's cuts could expose some of the nation's most sensitive secrets,

CNN's new reporting up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:45:57]

BROWN: Well, new this morning, there's growing concern at the CIA that the Trump administration's deep cuts and spending audits could expose some of the spy agency's most sensitive work.

CNN's Katie Bo Lillis has been leading -- joins us now, leading this effort, this reporting.

What are you learning here?

KATIE BO LILLIS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Pam.

So, earlier this month, the CIA sent a highly unusual e-mail to the White House. It was trying to be responsive to one of President Trump's executive orders about downsizing the federal government, and it sent over a list of probationary employees listed by first name and last initial, identifying them for potential cuts.

The problem was that they sent this e-mail over an unclassified network, potentially exposing the list to foreign government hackers. Current and former officials told us that this risk not only making it impossible to send some individual officers into undercover roles. It also risked exposing the jobs themselves, as the CIA jobs are disguised publicly as State Department roles in foreign government, was able to learn that a given role was actually a CIA role.

They might be able to reconstruct who had met with past occupants of that role, according to sources that we spoke to. So now what we have learned is that the CIA is conducting a formal damage assessment to determine the potential harm that could take place from a counterintelligence perspective if this information were to be hacked or exposed in any way.

We have also learned that some officers on the agency's seventh floor are quietly discussing how mass firings and the buyouts that have already been offered to staff risk creating a group of disgruntled former employees who might be motivated to take what they know to a foreign intelligence service.

So, taken together, look, this really underscores the depth of concern from at least some current CIA officials that Trump's kind of move fast and break stuff approach to cutting the U.S. government may be creating some unique counterintelligence risks when applied to the CIA, Pam.

BROWN: All right, Katie Bo Lillis, thanks so much.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:52:50]

BROWN: Breaking news into CNN, Grammy-Award winning soul singer Roberta Flack has died.

CNN's Stephanie Elam has more on her life and musical legacy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With soulful lyrics and piano prowess, Roberta Flack knew how to dazzle a crowd.

Known for ballads like 1973's "Killing Me Softly With His Song," she bent music to her will, combining classical art with jazz and rhythm and blues. Born February 10, 1937, in Black Mountain, North Carolina, Flack was a piano prodigy.

In a 2012 NPR interview, she said her voice was a gift, yet she wanted to become a concert pianist. But in the 1950s, the chances of a black girl becoming a professional classical pianist were slim. That didn't stop her from pursuing her dream. And at age 15, she received a music scholarship to attend Howard University in Washington, D.C.

But while in grad school studying opera and classical piano, her father died. Flack put her career on hold, returned home and took a job teaching music and English.

ROBERTA FLACK, MUSICIAN: I got to a point, well, I don't want to teach music anymore. I just want to sing. I lucked up on a little club in Washington.

ELAM: Where she met jazz musician Les McCann, who was instrumental in getting her sign to Atlantic Records. And in 1969, the songstress released her debut album, "First Take."

Her music gained little attention until Clint Eastwood asked to use one of her songs. The film, "Play Misty for Me," pushed "The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face" to number one and scored Flack her first Grammy.

FLACK: When I first heard the words, killing me softly with his song, just the sound of those words together had such magic for me.

ELAM: She recorded more than 20 albums throughout her five-decade career, with hit singles like "Feel Like Makin' Love." The balladeer also tackled social and political issues, like in the song "Tryin' Times."

[11:55:22]

Nominated for 14 Grammys and a winner of four, Flack is also known for her humanitarian efforts. She advocated for music education for underprivileged youth. Flack suffered from a stroke in 2016. She recovered and continued performing.

In 2022, the "Killing Me Softly" singer was diagnosed with ALS and retired. Flack didn't fulfill her early dream of becoming a concert pianist, but her classically trained approach helped her charter her own course, leaving a distinctive mark on popular music.

(CHEERING)

FLACK: Yes!

(CHEERING)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Our thanks to Stephanie Elam.

And thank you for joining us. I'm Pamela Brown.

Don't forget, join Wolf Blitzer and me in "THE SITUATION ROOM" starting Monday, March 3, weekday mornings from 10:00 to noon. In the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram, TikTok and X @PamelaBrownCNN

Stay with us. "INSIDE POLITICS WITH DANA BASH" starts after a short break.