Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
CNN International: Trump And Macron Speaking At The White House; Vatican: Pope Francis Shows "Slight Improvement"; Skier Mikaela Shiffrin Claims Historic 100th World Cup Win; Grammy-Winning Singer Roberta Flack Dies At 88. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired February 24, 2025 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:05]
EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): This is part of history which puts us in the world that we are in today. And as the president just said, there are many challenges in this world. And over the past few days, we have one main objective, which is the geopolitical situation.
Mr. President, I really wish to thank you for making changes to your schedule to meet with us so quickly. I think we've made very substantive steps forward during our discussions, and this is a major step in what were experiencing today. We had a video conference with all of the G7 leaders, which was an opportunity for us to discuss this matter. Three days after the Russian war in Ukraine and to express our support for President Zelenskyy to the Ukrainian people, but also to speak and share about our desire for a lasting peace.
This is what we have spoken about very forcibly over the past few weeks. We thought that this war was only going to last a few weeks when it broke out in 2022. We admire greatly the courage of the Ukrainian people.
And, Mr. President, I wish to thank you for this. You mentioned that there are responsibilities on Europe's side and indeed we have invested $128 billion in aid to Ukraine and the Ukrainians. Ukraine has been able to hold the front of our collective security. It's fought over these past few years for its independence and for its sovereignty, but also for our collective security, because I think that no one in this room wants to live in a world where its the law of the strongest and international borders can be violated from one day to the next by anyone.
Over the past few hours, and as you mentioned this, Mr. President, we've been able to see a few things take shape. First of all, allow me to commend you on your decision to work with President Zelenskyy and to conclude this agreement that's so important for the U.S. and Ukraine on rare earths, critical minerals, but also having substantive conversations with President Zelenskyy during this key phase of achieving this deal, which is a major commitment to Ukraine's sovereignty. And I think that's very commendable.
We also have a shared desire to build peace. We will have this responsibility. This is ten years after the war started in Crimea. And then we saw the events in Donbas -- and the Donbas region and along the northern part of the country. We want to save lives. We want to bring prisoners back and bring back families and children, because there's also humanitarian tragedy affecting the Ukrainian people.
We had lengthy discussions with the president and we spoke about our desire to bring an end to conflicts, to have a truce that is measurable, verifiable, and that enables negotiation of a lasting peace. What we will discuss, not only Ukraine's reconstruction, its territories, but also the security guarantees, meaning maintaining peace over the long term.
As I said to the president, we have experienced peace accords that were only ceasefires without ensuring security guarantees, Minsk I and II. And we want to make sure this doesn't happen again. And I know that the president has expressed the desire to be a player for peace in the region.
I've spoken with some 30 European leaders and allies in recent days. We want to bring together these allies -- allies, rather, and share the same vision. This peace must not mean a surrender of Ukraine. It must not mean a ceasefire without guarantees. This peace must allow for Ukrainian sovereignty and allow Ukraine to negotiate with other stakeholders regarding the issues it affects. That affects it rather.
But it is also a country in which we need to shoulder our responsibility so that we ensure security and stability for Ukraine and for the entire region. And for us Europeans, this is an existential issue. We also spoke about these issues at length with the president.
[15:05:00]
We've worked with President Zelenskyy and gotten to some of the details of the various phases of the negotiation, and we've also been able to speak about some of this work with our British partners to talk about deployments of peace forces on Ukrainian soil, which are part of these security guarantees. Other countries are ready to join in this effort.
Solidarity and support from the U.S. will be crucial to this. And I thank you, Mr. President, for beginning to work with us on this issue and the agreement that you are preparing to sign with your Ukraine and with all the discussions we've had are very solid guarantees that we are understood and that we have the same wish peace as soon as possible, lasting, solid peace for everyone and the renewal of an international situation where we are all able to shoulder our responsibilities. Europeans shouldering their responsibilities alongside their American allies who will shoulder their own responsibilities.
I also wanted to be very clear, Mr. President, about Europe's commitment. We have committed to building a lasting peace. As Europeans, we have committed to being stakeholders in -- in these security guarantees. And we are also well aware that Europeans need to do more for security in Europe, for defense in Europe, and to more fairly share the security board and burden that your country has been carrying for so many years.
Mr. President, you know how much friendship I showed towards you and I have towards you since your first term. Europe is very clear-eyed about this. We know what we need to do as Europeans, given the threats surrounding us and the responsibilities that we must shoulder. We spoke about the Versailles agenda, which allowed the Europeans to take a historic step and increase their investments. Europeans are ready to do even more and to go even further.
And several leaders said that to me before I came here to meet you, Mr. President. Dear Donald, you spoke about this peace through strength. We fully share that because we must recognize the sacrifices made by the Ukrainian people and what we owe to them. The president and I also spoke about economic matters and our desire to see more prosperity in the United States and in Europe.
We had discussions which will be carried on by our teams, our ministers and secretaries, to flesh out some of those ideas. But the idea is to have fair competition and no bias within competition between our industries. Now, the American and European economies are extremely intertwined, some 1.5 billion in trade -- a trillion rather, in goods and services. And I know you've spoken about wanting to look at the balance of payments.
We also have a trade deficit. And I know that we need to look not only at goods, but also digital items and goods, which you export. And we want to make a sincere commitment towards fair competition where we have smooth trade and more investments.
You already invest a great deal in France, and France is the fifth most -- the fifth largest investor in the United States. And I would like to recognize here all of the American investors who announced investments, some $120 billion that were announced at the A.I. summit.
This is our wish. We want to have more prosperity on both sides of the Atlantic. We have a shared agenda in that regard. We also spoke about the Middle East, among other subjects.
And here again, we have the same desire. We don't want to see Iran obtain nuclear weapons. We don't want -- or rather, we want an approach with partners in the region that we can trust. Given Iran's nuclear activities, we want to limit its ballistic capabilities and avoid any type of regional destabilization.
With respect to Syria and Iraq, we also share the same desire. We don't want to see Islamic terrorist groups resume any of their activities, because for some time, our armies have very bravely been engaged in the gulf, as you have led and contributions have been significant and helped stability in the region.
[15:10:17]
And I say this with great sincerity. France was affected by a terrorist attack in 2015, which was linked to the terrorist activity in Syria, and we are in that region at your side to work for more security. Ladies and gentlemen, we had extremely productive discussions this
morning during the conference, and we spoke with our ministers and counselors and advisors. And I wish to say, after speaking with President Trump, I am fully believe that there is a path forward. We share the same beliefs. We know what work needs to be done, and in the weeks to come, we will work on that. Our teams will come together in various formats to make sure that we have this solid, lasting peace with great strength.
Mr. President, thank you so much for welcoming me here today. Thank you so much for these productive discussions and for your commitment. Thank you, Dear Donald.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Okay. Thank you very much.
Brian, would you like to ask a question? Go ahead.
REPORTER: Welcome, President Trump.
I just want to touch upon real quickly the Harvard poll that came out that had -- thank you very much -- the Harvard poll that came out had you up nine plus points and all of your agenda that you ran on. You're accomplishing that. You've got the support of the American people, including stopping the war in Ukraine. If you can comment on the latest Harvard poll, I appreciate that.
TRUMP: Well, I was honored by it. It was a big poll, and it's usually a poll that leans on the other side of things, the other side of the world, so to speak. But the Harvard poll is a respected poll, and it has us not only leading, but leading by a lot and leading on every single issue that we've -- we've talked about.
And as I said, we've become the party of common sense. And I think that's a very important element in our common sense, because what's happening in the world and even in this country, some of the things that took place, many of them are now canceled and the rest are being canceled as we speak. But we've moved very rapidly and I think very effectively. So I was honored by that poll.
Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
REPORTER: Mr. President --
TRUMP: Go ahead. Please go ahead.
REPORTER: Mr. President, you said before that you would like to see a Russia.
TRUMP: Yes. Go ahead.
REPORTER: -- under conditions that you want to meet before and you're meeting with Arabia with -- your meeting in Saudi Arabia with President Putin. Will that happen regardless of any progress on the Ukrainian side?
TRUMP: Yeah. I think the meeting in Saudi Arabia was a fantastic one. We met with the crown prince, who was a fantastic young guy. He's young, but with great imagination and a tremendously respected all over the world.
And he goes right to the king. And the king is incredible. Gotten to be friends with both of them very much, and they want to see this ended, and they're going all out to make sure that it is ended.
I think Russia likewise, I've spoken to President Putin and my people are dealing with him constantly, and his people in particular, and they want to do something. I mean, that's what I do. I do deals. My whole life is deals. That's all I know is deals.
And I know when somebody wants to make and when somebody does it. I will say this before I came here, there was no communication with Russia whatsoever, and Russia wasn't answering calls. They were not talking to anybody. They wouldn't talk to anybody.
And people sort of accepted that as being -- that they want to go forward and just keep going without stop. But when I got here, one of the first calls I made was to President Putin, and we were treated with great respect. And they want to -- they want to end this war. So that's a big thing, because I didn't know if I could say that, but its a big thing. They want to do it.
And the group in the front row that I introduced, they're very all very active in it. And we're working on deals right now, transactions right now. And in particular the big one is to get the war stopped, whether it's ceasefire or direct to an agreement. And I'd like to go directly to an agreement. But ceasefire will always happen a little bit quicker.
And every day, you're saving thousands or at least hundreds, but thousands in some cases lives. So we want to see if we can get that done very quickly.
Yes. For the president, please.
[15:15:01]
MACRON: Yes.
REPORTER: Thank you. (INAUDIBLE) correspondent based in Paris. Question for both of you actually.
Mr. Macron, you were one of the last Western leaders to speak to Putin before Ukraine's invasion. What advice -- what recommendation could you make to President Trump to make sure that this time you can get strong enough guarantees, sorry, from Putin to get a peace deal that lasts this time?
And, Mr. President Trump, what makes you think you can trust Putin in those negotiations? Thank you.
MACRON: Look, I will never give any advice to President Trump. We have friendly and trustful discussions.
But my experience with President Putin is the following. Number one, I always think it's good to have discussion with other leaders and especially when -- when -- when you disagree. I stopped my discussion with President Putin after Bucha and the war crimes, because I considered that -- I mean, we had nothing to get from him in that time.
Now this is a chance. There is a big chance because there is a new U.S. administration. So this is a new context. So there is good reason for President Trump to reengage with President Putin.
But my experience is the following and I shared it with President Trump and the team in 2014. Our predecessors negotiated peace with President Putin. But because of the lack of guarantees and especially security guarantees, President Putin violated this peace. And I had several discussions, especially beginning of 2022, several times -- seven hours with President Putin, 15 days before, launching of the attack. It denied everything, but we didn't have security guarantees.
So this is why being strong and having deterrence capacities is the only way to be sure it will be respected. And I insisted on that. And this is why I believe that the U.S. has the capacity to do so. And this is why I think we should never say I will never send it in boots on the ground, because you give a blank check to violate any type of commitment.
So I think it's good to have discussion. I think it's useful to have negotiation. I think it's super important to go to the peace, but my strong point was to say, let's try to get something first, which is -- which can be assessed, checked and verified. And let's be sure that we build sufficient guarantees in the short run.
And this is where we are ready to be engaged. As for France, a lot of my European colleagues are ready to be engaged, but we do need this American backup because this is part of the credibility of the security guarantees. And this is our collective deterrence capacity. And I have the feelings that the president has this capacity.
TRUMP: I think it's very much to the benefit of Russia to make a deal. And I feel that we will do that. It is what it is. Again, it's a war that should have never been started. It's a war that would not have been started if I were president.
But it did start, and it's at a terrible level where cities are -- are burned down and shot down to the ground. It looks like demolition sites, a whole big pile of demolition sites, and we got to get it stopped, too many people, too much agony. The whole culture is destroyed.
When you rip down some of those ancient, really ancient or near ancient buildings, it's so sad to see. But I think it's very much to the benefit of -- there's tremendous distrust on both sides. That's why it's good that I'm coming in now, but I think it's to the very much benefit of Russia to make a deal and to go on with -- go on with leading Russia in a very positive way. That's -- that's what you have to do.
But I really believe that he wants to make a deal, maybe wrong, but I believe he wants to make a deal.
Yeah. Go ahead. Please?
REPORTER: Mr. President --
REPORTER: Mr. President, next week, there's a key deadline for your Canada and Mexico tariffs. (INAUDIBLE) believe those countries have done enough on the border to stop those from taking effect?
And for President Macron, I'm wondering if you believe that this critical minerals deal with Ukraine represents a de facto security guarantee by the United States, since the U.S. would have an interest in protecting those reserves in Ukraine?
Thank you.
TRUMP: We're on time with the tariffs and it seems like that's moving along very rapidly. We've been mistreated very badly by many countries, not just Canada and Mexico.
[15:20:05]
We've been taken advantage of. We were led by, in some cases, fools because anybody that would sign documents like they signed when they were able to take advantage of the American people, like has happened over the last long period of time, except for a little four year period that took place four years ago, but anybody that would agree to allow this to happen to our country should be ashamed of themselves.
No, the tariffs are going forward on time, on schedule. This is an abuse that took place for many, many years. And I'm not even blaming the other countries that did this. I blame our leadership for allowing it to happen.
I mean, you know, who can blame them if they made these great deals with the United States, took advantage of the United States on -- on manufacturing, on just about everything, every aspect that you can imagine they took advantage of. I look at some of these agreements. I read them at night and I'd say, who would ever sign a thing like this?
So the tariffs will go forward. Yes. And we're going to make up a lot of territory. We're going to -- all we want is reciprocal. We want reciprocity. We want to have the same.
So if somebody charges us we charge them. It's very simple. But it will be very good for our country. Our country will be extremely liquid and rich again.
Plus, we're doing other things, as you know, were finding tremendous waste, fraud and abuse at levels that nobody thought possible. You're seeing what's going on.
And that was also part of the Harvard poll. Do you agree with what President Trump is doing with Elon and others that are looking for the waste, fraud and abuse? And, the numbers were staggering. It was like 70 percent to 2 percent. Everybody wants to find out. They don't like it.
And, you know, the radical left or whoever it may be starts screaming about the Constitution, but it has nothing to do with the Constitution. It has to do with fairness to this country. It has to do with being ripped off.
And when you read the things that all of these billions and I mean many billions, hundreds of billions of dollars have been spent on, that's all you have to do is stand up here and read them. I could stand up all day and read the kind of things where we're spending all of this money.
The good news is that when you think of how rich a nation we can be when we get rid of this, you know, sometimes you'll buy a company and you'll see it was really well run. It's -- they accounted for every penny. Well, not much you can do there. You got yourself a bad deal.
This one is the exact opposite, tremendous fraud, tremendous waste. And -- and when you think of what it is, you know, Elon uses an expression caring. If we had people that cared, just cared a little bit when they did contracts, when they negotiated with outside vendors for -- on behalf of the United States, that's what I'm doing now. I'm negotiating for the people of the United States, and we're doing a great job of it.
I will say we found -- it will be hundreds of billions of dollars of waste and fraud and abuse. Thank you. Please.
MACRON: Look, I think this discussion is a very important one. First, because it's important for the U.S. and it will be a good occasion for our first very important meeting between President Trump and President Zelenskyy.
Second, I think its there is a lot of economic upside on both sides. And third, de facto, there is a recognition of Ukrainian sovereignty, a recognition of the Ukrainian interests. And -- and this is de facto a very important alignment of interests.
Now, the security guarantees will be negotiated in due time in a full fledged package of a peace security. But this peace, as it is now written and negotiated, and as this meeting is scheduled, is an important step forward, full fledged peace agreement.
TRUMP: Okay, please go ahead.
REPORTER: President Trump, President Macron.
REPORTER: -- to make a deal with Putin. So when you do a deal, it's a win-win deal. What are you giving to him and what is he going to give you, to America? And I was impressed by the way you referred to Notre Dame and that you were impressed by the reconstruction of Notre Dame. A lot of Americans have sent money to Paris to participate to the reconstruction of Notre Dame. As the president of the United States, are you going to contribute to
the reconstruction of Ukraine?
Mr. President Macron -- President Macron, what for you is the main area of progress in your meeting with President Trump? Can you confirm that there is an agreement to send European peacekeeping troops? Will France participate in that? How many troops, what would they be doing?
[15:25:02]
Would this represent a great danger to send French and European troops to Ukraine?
TRUMP: Well, I guess its a little strange question, because you ask whether or not were going to, on behalf of the United States, contribute to Ukraine. I mean, we're in there for about $350 billion. I think that's a pretty big contribution.
I do appreciate the first part of your question, however, because I think they've done an incredible job with the cathedral of Notre Dame. I think the president has done I know he headed it up, and I know how hard he worked. And it took a period of time, but really not a long period of time, considering what that was so delicate, so beautiful.
And I was there and I saw the work and I'm very good at construction. I know good construction. I know bad construction. They did a beautiful job.
And this man has to be given a lot of credit for that. It's an incredible cathedral. Most people thought it couldn't be saved, and if it was, it would have to be built in a different form. And we didn't want to see a different form. We wanted to see the same form that you built.
So I just want to congratulate you. That was an amazing job. I don't think you've gotten enough credit for it. Some day you will, some day you will.
MACRON: Thank you. Donald. Merci beaucoup.
Thank you very much. To go back to your question, today's discussion showed several areas of progress. First, we have been working a great deal with President Zelenskyy to have a proposal that's acceptable to Ukraine. President Trump has confirmed that he will be meeting with President Zelenskyy very soon to finalize the agreement on critical minerals and rare earths, and to speak together about that matter. That's a very important step forward.
The second thing is that during our discussions, we were able to go into some of the details about the proposal that we have just made to have a truce, a peace, and be able to measure that and then structure our discussions on that basis. France and several other European countries, along with Ukraine, are hard at work to build this lasting peace with very specific points, including security guarantees, the territories that belong to Ukraine, the issue of reconstruction, the economy and critical minerals. We've been able to go into the details of those proposals.
The third area of progress, which really mark a turning point, is the fact that we were able to talk about the details of the security guarantees and the president has shown this over the past few days, and he said so a moment ago. We want peace. He wants peace, we want peace, peace swiftly, but we don't want an agreement that is weak.
The fact that there are Europeans that are ready to engage, to provide for these security guarantees. And now there's a clear American message that the U.S., as an ally, is ready to provide that solidarity for that approach. That's a turning point, in my view, and that is one of the great areas of progress that we've made during this trip and during this discussion.
When it comes to troops, in the past, a year ago, specifically, we saw a reason to talk about sending troops to for strategic regions. Today, when we talk about troops, we're talking about sending them in after we've negotiated a lasting peace. And once we have that solid, lasting peace that's part of an agreement signed by Ukraine, signed by Russia, and for which we will provide the guarantees.
Then at that point, and recently, France has worked with the U.K. to provide its contributions. We've worked on plans, we've worked with our militaries not to go to the front lines, not to go into occupied territories, but as a show of support, to show that we have a negotiated peace signed by both sides, and that is a peace we will preserve.
So these would be peaceful deployments of troops, not for combat. These would be deployments of an assurance force. They would be limited, but they show solidarity.
I have also spoken with all of our allies, and they are European and non-European allies who are ready and willing to take part in that effort. Countries have helped Ukraine maintain its military capabilities in terms of the number of soldiers it has equipment, whereas others have provided logistical support on the ground.
The question is whether or in what form the U.S. will contribute, and during our discussions and during the discussions with Russia, we've understood that this would be acceptable to Russia.
[15:30:09]
And that's a very important area of progress. And that means that in this context, the Europeans will shoulder their part of the burden, their share of the burden. We have a strong alliance that we have built over the decades. We have our solidarity and we have deterrence capacities.
What does it mean? Would it be dangerous? If there is an agreement signed by Ukraine and Russia? Thanks to the efforts of President Trump? And if we provide the guarantees and Russia violates the agreement, then it would be in conflict with everyone who is engaged in the peace process. And that is a change. That was something we did not see in the past.
That's not what we saw in 2014. So, that is the real change that we're marking. We have this deterrence capacity on the American side.
We have the capacity for engagement on the European side. And that's something we're going to continue working on together. It's not dangerous, but it's credible.
It's less dangerous than things that could happen in the long term. And I think this is what we need to do to ensure security. And I say this very clearly. We're also talking about security for Europeans.
I've been saying this for weeks now. If we do not guarantee the security of this territory within Europe, then how can we guarantee our own security for one and all?
We live just 1,500 kilometers from Ukraine, and the Germans and polish are even closer. So our collective security is important. We need to answer this call for Europeans to be more engaged, and Americans will be there still in solidarity. Europeans are working for their collective security. But I really think this was a turning point today in our discussions.
TRUMP: Emmanuel, thank you very much. Great job, and it's been wonderful being with you. And say hello to your beautiful wife and we will see you again soon. We'll be speaking often. Well get this thing worked out. We're going to get it done. So important and great job.
MACRON: Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: So you've been listening there, of course, to the press conference with President Donald Trump and Emmanuel Macron, who have been meeting throughout the day. And we heard from them a short time ago.
I'm Erica Hill, joining you from New York, just after 3:30 here in New York.
And I just want to give you some of the top lines here of what we heard from both leaders today. Of course, the real focus here is Ukraine President Macron there, of course, to talk more about Europe's role moving forward in whatever agreement may come out here to end the war in Ukraine.
Interesting as we were hearing from Donald Trump talking about the successful talks, that he believed that they have had, pushing again, he hoped that his greatest legacy here would be to be a peacemaker, and also on more than one occasion, talking about how he believes how much the U.S. has spent more than any other nation, and what that means to him, and that he believes he's one of the only people who could bring about this peace.
President Macron, for his part, talking about the objective here, right, which is a lasting peace for Ukraine. There's been a lot of focus on what Europe's role will be moving forward. That has been a big part of the discussions today as well. We've heard a lot about the potential for European peacekeeping troops, troops that would not be on the front line or as we just heard President Macron say, they would not be in the occupied territories but would be there as a peacekeeping force.
President Trump a short time ago saying that, in fact, he had brought this up. He says he brought it up with President Putin, and then he was okay with European peacekeeping forces there in Ukraine.
There is a lot to dig into. I want to bring in now, my colleague Kevin Liptak joining us from the White House. We have heard a lot from these two leaders in a couple of different sessions today, reporters trying to really trying to push in and drill down specifically, even at one point, President Trump being asked what was Russia giving up and what would the U.S. be bringing to this table as well? He notably did not answer that question, Kevin.
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: No, and he has not answered that question. You know, throughout this entire period where Ukraine has been in the spotlight, it has never been clear what the U.S. will ask Moscow to concede as part of this peace deal. And I think that is part of what Emmanuel Macron was doing here at the White House was try in one way, to encourage President Trump to maintain some of these conversations with Putin, but also to inject a dose of reality and realism into this prospect that President Trump seems to have in his mind, that he will be able to swiftly negotiate a peace in Ukraine.
[15:35:16]
And you could hear Macron throughout that press conference really try and demonstrate that he was on the same page with Trump in some ways. For example, he said that they had these shared goals, that they had this same wish for peace. But then he went a little further. For example, there he said that he wanted a peace that didn't necessarily result in surrender for Ukraine.
That's never something that you hear from Donald Trump. He doesn't talk about Ukraine sort of giving up and Russia taking over.
You also heard Macron talk about the value of conversations with Putin. And Macron is someone he sort of the last western leader to have maintained contact with Putin during the war in Ukraine. He said he shut that off after the war atrocities in Bucha, because he didn't think that there was any point to it.
But he said that in order for these conversations to be successful, you have to enter them from a strong point of view, which is interesting, and he's sort of encouraging President Trump to take into account who exactly Putin is as he prepares for this potential summit with him in Saudi Arabia.
You also heard Macron repeatedly mention these negotiations that occurred in 2014 and 2015, in Minsk, in Belarus between Russia, the Ukrainians and Europe, to try and end some of the fighting that was occurring at that point. None of those agreements eventually resulted in -- in a durable peace. Obviously, Russia went ahead and invaded Ukraine in 2022.
And I think his point was essentially to tell President Trump, listen, we have been down this road before. When you're negotiating with Putin, you have to remember the history here, that he doesn't necessarily stick to what he says. He's going to stick to that. This is an operator who is looking to get sort of a maximalist position out of any peace talks.
The other word that you kept hearing Macron say in this press conference was security guarantees, trying to ensure that once a peace agreement is reached, that Russia isn't able to break it, and that security could be guaranteed for Ukraine going forward. You did not hear Trump mention that at all, even when Macron brought it up. It's not exactly clear what Trump would be willing to engage with on that front, what the contours of this seem to be at this point is this idea of European peacekeepers going into Ukraine, perhaps as many as 30,000. And we'll hear more about that later this week, when the British prime minister is here at the White House to meet with Trump.
Trump says that he's open to this idea. As you mentioned, he says he's talked to Putin about it and that he's open to this idea as well. But in order for that to work, it will have to have some U.S. buy in, some, you know, back end support from the United States, elsewhere in Europe. He stopped well short of saying he would support that during this press conference.
But I think when you listen to macron there, he does think that there has been some progress. For example, he says that President Trump is ready to meet directly with Zelenskyy. He says that alone is a sign that things could be moving in the right direction. But it was very clear just listening to the different ways that these two men were talking, that they still view this conflict very, very differently.
HILL: Certain -- a certain amount of political dancing, if you will, happening throughout the day as well.
Kevin, really appreciate it. Thank you.
Also with me this hour, Ukrainian political analyst Peter Zalmayev.
Peter, it's good to have you with us.
Just picking up where Kevin left off, right? So Kevin's talking about we keep hearing the word security guarantees. President Macron very clear that that was what was lacking. He feels in Minsk in those agreements, that there was nothing that Putin would have to agree to, to make sure that he held to that deal, which of course, he didn't. He's trying to say that part of this would be European troops on the ground.
I found it interesting that President Macron was also asked by a reporter whether he felt this mineral deal that we're hearing so much about for Ukraine's minerals could be, in some ways a de facto security guarantee from the U.S. Would you see it that way?
PETER ZALMAYEV, UKRAINIAN POLITICAL ANALYST: No, I don't see it, and neither do the rest of my compatriots, you know? Once again, historical analogies from near, you know, not -- not so far distant past, very helpful. 2014 once again and, Crimea, still Ukraine, east Ukraine, still in peace and myriad of western companies working there, not just American companies. Did that prevent Vladimir Putin from moving in? Of course not.
Donald Trump knows that, that there's no guarantee. And that's why it is very conspicuous that he refuses to talk about, you know, providing security for American presence there because simply because Russians are probably, telling him that it's a nonstarter if he wants to have the face to face with Vladimir Putin, that he so obviously craves.
HILL: You know, two things I want to pick up on there. First, when it comes to that territory, a short time ago, so when there was a probably about two hours ago when we heard from these leaders in the Oval Office, President Trump said perhaps they -- that Ukraine could take back some territory.
[15:40:14]
And then when he was pushed on that, he said, well, but it's not an easy thing to do. The fact that he even said, perhaps, do you put any stock in that being an option in the mind of Donald Trump?
ZALMAYEV: I don't think so. I don't think Donald Trump cares a fig about, you know, the, you know, the future of Ukraine's, you know, own sovereignty and in which shape or form Ukraine will finally be able to break free from Russia. You know, there's also a question of once they start negotiating and, they decide to basically leave, the -- you know, the territory where it is right now, who de facto controls the territory and Pete Hegseth and other players from his team have said that will have to recognize reality on the ground.
That's very much also Russian talking point. And that means 20 percent of Ukraine's territory in Russian hands. But then Vladimir Putin has written into his constitution the rest of the administrative four regions that he captured, which he, you know, hasn't captured fully yet.
Does that mean that Ukraine would have to cede those territories as well? And what about Kursk, the part of Russia that Ukraine is occupying? Ukraine would have to voluntarily just leave it, and Russia would just keep it and then some.
I mean, there are so many questions hanging over it, and that's why it's so dismaying to see at the speed at which the Trump administration wants to get it done.
HILL: It is interesting how quickly Donald Trump seems to want to get it done.
To your point, as we're still waiting on so many details as opposed to perhaps taking a beat to get those worked out.
Peter Zalmayev, really appreciate your insight. Thank you.
Also with me, CNN's chief international security correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh, is joining me now from Kyiv.
So you've been following all the developments there on the ground, obviously speaking with folks on -- on what is the third anniversary of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, based on what we just heard from Presidents Trump and Macron, does that change anything?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, I mean, look, I think it was fascinating to see after a week of really unprecedented acrimony between the Trump administration, remembering the message, calling western democracies essentially tyrannical regimes that were afraid of their own electorate. That's the words of Trump's Vice President, J.D. Vance, after a week in which that relationship really felt like it was in freefall, particularly between the U.S. and, Ukraine, to hear that moment of bonhomie between the French and American presidents, clearly, men who in public, very much like each other. Trump clearly with a lot of respect for Macron and that photo opportunity, grabbing his arm, saying he's a smart customer.
What I think we heard in that press conference, in terms of the details, nothing that we didn't already know was potentially going to happen, but it sounds more like it might happen now because I think at moments, Macron, while he didn't commit the United States to necessarily logistically being around or being involved in a European peacekeeping operation, he talked about the fact that they had American solidarity here, that they were essentially able to reintroduce the idea of American involvement as some kind of deterrence for Russia at the negotiating table.
It's been very cleverly handled by the French president. And I think potentially Trump has been very welcoming of the possibility of clearing the last week up. We've got to remind you that we did hear about two or three weeks ago, Donald Trump invite or say he was going to meet Zelenskyy in the coming days.
That caused a panic in Kyiv. I think it's fair to say people trying to make that happen; Zelenskyy very keen to talk personally with Trump. It didn't happen.
Then, we had that extraordinary last week in which Trump called Zelenskyy a dictator, and now suddenly it looks like they may meet again. They may discuss security guarantees. They may sign a rare earth mineral deal.
Look, our understanding of that deal is it's essentially at the first going to be a framework about Ukrainian reconstruction, a gloss essentially put on the natural resources, 50 percent revenue that the Trump administration has sought from the Zelenskyy team here, and probably put all the more ugly, complex negotiations into later different deals. And it doesn't address the security guarantees that's likely to
present something going to discuss themselves. But it's an extraordinary turnaround. And the beginning, bones, too. I think of some concrete ideas from Emmanuel Macron talking about the need for verifiable things, suggesting that there may be a process in which Russia has to go along and do certain things to gain confidence in the peace process, that there would be European peacekeepers, he said. Not dangerous, but credible. So not putting them into combat or into occupied areas, but allowing them to be around to bolster the sense of security the Ukrainians got under any particular deal.
[15:45:04]
So clearly more advanced thinking by the Europeans out there. We heard a lot of commitment here in Kyiv today, from the 13 world leaders who came physically to stand by Zelenskyy. And the missing part was, was it possible to imagine the Trump administration might go along with this and might seek to be as much on Europe and Ukraine's side as it clearly has seemed to have been on Russia's in the last 2 or 3 weeks.
The answer from that press conference is more yes. And so I think the big takeaway is less one of huge practical revelations as to how all this is going to be solved on the third anniversary of the war. And one more of a sense that Macron has basically managed to get Zelenskyy a meeting with Trump and get Europe back in Trump's good graces after a horrific week.
HILL: Yeah, which is important to have Ukraine at the table, as we know, and Europe as well.
Nick, appreciate it. Thank you.
Also joining me, Melissa Bell, who is live in Paris.
Melissa, as -- as Nick was just pointing out, there's a reason that Emmanuel Macron is the European leader who is there because of his relationship with Donald Trump, because of how he knows to speak to Donald Trump. There was certainly a fair amount of that. What struck me, though, is interesting as well, is he actually did push back a couple times on president Trump very publicly, specifically calling Russia the aggressor, of course, which it is more than once, but also correcting Donald Trump in real time in the oval office a short time ago about the funding, about what Europeans have contributed.
That, to me, stood out as a moment that that he's also the leader who can do that and yet still get a little bit of praise from Donald Trump.
MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It was a fascinating exchange in the Oval Office that we watched. I think the most interesting of what we've heard today from the most, both leaders, even though we just had that very long press conference from them.
Those comments, you're right, there was a lot of backslapping, knee slapping, laughs, smiles, warmth. And yet when President Trump spoke to those, the question of the loans or the grants, President Macron corrected him, chimed in and said, wait a minute, know what this is what Europeans gave. It was a mixture of grants and loans and guarantees, similar to what the United States did, really kind of correcting him factually.
And I think another interesting moment was after President Trump had explained that he believed President Zelenskyy was on his way to Washington either next week or the next, or the week after that, explaining that he believed that a rare earth and precious minerals deal was getting closer by the day, and that he believed it could be found, and that once it had been found, peace would be restored. Emmanuel Macron chimed in in French, explaining that he agreed with President Trump and this was extremely important. And essentially what President Trump was doing by reengaging on Ukraine's side was sending an important message to Russia in uncertainty to Russia.
So really reclaiming the United States position to be one in line with that of European countries, and going on to explain that essentially they were going to work together. They all sang from the same hymn sheet. It was now the question of how European troops would be deployed to Ukraine, something President Trump agreed with at the question, of course, of the American guarantee that so many Europeans have been asking for, in order that they allow that their troops be sent to a peace -- post-peace deal Ukraine has been left unclear in the in the balance.
But have a listen to how Emmanuel Macron replied in French to that question of what President Trump had said about the rare minerals deal, and the fact, therefore, that he believed peace was closed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MACRON: This is what President Trump means when he says there won't be any more problems. I think the strength of the U.S. re-engagement means more uncertainty for Vladimir Putin. So there is a capacity for deterrence that's there, which will allow a truce to take place. Initially, capacity to verify that respecting of the ceasefire and a peace deal which will allow to rebuild Ukraine and bring also security guarantees. And in the framework of these security guarantees, we think we have a role to play in that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BELL: We've heard President Macron reframing the question of how this war began, Russia being the aggressor, Ukraine being the victim. It's the first time, I think we've heard him sitting next to President Trump, reframing the American position itself.
HILL: Yeah, absolutely. It's such an important point.
Melissa, I appreciate it as always. Thank you.
Stay with us. We're going to fit in a quick break here. Much more to come on the other side. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:52:01]
HILL: In what is now the 11th day of hospitalization for Pope Francis, the Vatican says the pontiff is showing slight improvement. That, of course, welcome news, following Saturday's announcement that he was in critical condition showing mild signs of kidney failure.
The pope has been battling pneumonia in both his lungs.
Here's more from our Vatican correspondent Christopher Lamb.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: I'm here in St. Peter's Square, where people are gathering for a prayer service for Pope Francis. It will be led by Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Holy See secretary of state and cardinals and leaders of the Vatican will be here in St. Peter's to pray for Pope Francis as he enters what is the longest hospital stay of his papacy.
Francis has pneumonia in both of his lungs. He's 88 years old. But tonight, we heard from the Vatican of a slight improvement in Francis's condition. The worry about kidney failure is no longer a concern, we're told. Francis is still receiving oxygen, but at a slightly lower percentage.
It's still, of course, a critical situation facing the Pope. There has been, as he continues to struggle in hospital, an outpouring of prayer and concern for Francis from across the world, and not just from Catholics. The grand imam of Al-Azhar, the Sunni Islamic Center of learning in Cairo, Egypt, has expressed his concern for Francis and says he's praying for the pope. The pair have worked together on interfaith matters in the past.
Now, the prayer service behind me will begin quite soon. We are expecting a number of people from Rome to gather together to show their concern, to pray for the pope. At this time, we're expecting another update from the Vatican tomorrow morning, Tuesday.
Christopher Lamb, CNN, Rome.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HILL: American skier Mikaela Shiffrin making history over the weekend with her 100th World Cup race win, taking the top spot at the women's slalom in Italy. By the way, she also became the first downhill skier ever to reach 100 wins, and this victory comes just three months after Shiffrin suffered major injuries after crashing in a race. Congratulations to her.
And finally, this hour, music lovers around the world are remembering the extraordinary Roberta Flack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(ROBERTA FLACK SINGING) (END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: "Killing Me Softly", of course, one of the Grammy winner's best known hits. She was also, though, known for a number of collaborations and also for social activism. Her publicist telling CNN, Flack died at home surrounded by family. In recent years, she had battled a number of health problems, including a debilitating diagnosis of ALS, also known as Lou Gehrig's disease, which made it impossible for her to sing.
Flack once described how singing was her divine purpose in life.
[15:55:04]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTA FLACK, GRAMMY-WINNING SINGER: I'm here because this is what I can do. I can sing. I also feel from a spiritual standpoint that in the words of an old phrase that sometimes bandied about without any realization that it's very true. There but for the grace of God.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Roberta Flack was 88.
Thanks so much for joining me today on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Erica Hill. Stay tuned. Much more to come at the top of the hour with Richard Quest on "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS".
Paula Newton in the chair today. Thanks again for joining us.
