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Confusion Over Elon Musk's Ultimatum to Federal Workers; Consumer Confidence Falls By Biggest Margin in 3.5 Years; House GOP Leaderse Scramble for Votes to Advance Budget Blueprint. Aired 10- 10:30a ET

Aired February 25, 2025 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Mass confusion and dueling instructions. Elon Musk reiterates his ultimatum to federal employees as agencies tell them not to respond. As one career V.A. employee puts it, quote, no one knows who is in charge and who to listen to.

Plus, budget prayer requests. Speaker Mike Johnson is calling on a higher power as he fights to get his party on board with his budget plan.

And later, banning the tush push, the controversial play fueled the success of Super Bowl champs, the Philadelphia Eagles, but now another team is crying foul.

Good morning to you. You are live in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Pamela Brown in Washington.

Well, this morning, thousands of federal workers are unsure of who to listen to after a day of contradictory guidance over Elon Musk's email ultimatum. His deadline -- his midnight deadline for employees to justify their jobs or risk losing them, it's come and gone.

Yesterday, the Office of Personnel Management informed agencies that responding to that email was voluntary, and if you don't do it, that does not, quote, equate to resignation. But Musk appears unfazed. He later posted that workers will be given another chance, and claims failing to respond a second time would result in termination.

The conflicting statements have left many government employees angry and confused.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LATISHA THOMPSON, VETERANS AFFAIRS DEPARTMENT: I found it to be very insulting and a waste of time. Elon is not our boss.

ANDRIA TOWNSEND, FORMER YOSEMITE NATIONAL PARK EMPLOYEE: Yes, it was really shocking and upsetting and just so far has been a whirlwind since then of just trying to figure out what the best next steps are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Joining us now with CNN's Rene Marsh. So, where do things stand right now, Rene?

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right now, again, I would have to say, Pamela, just where it stood about 24 hours ago. I mean, I think that the bottom line is many of these federal employees share that sentiment of they're not quite sure who to listen to. They're not quite sure who is in charge.

You walk through the tick tock of events starting from the weekend into yesterday and now into this morning. It has just been this whiplash of, you know, information that they're getting from multiple places from their agency heads, from Elon Musk, from the president of the United States. And they really are in this moment of not quite sure knowing exactly what to do.

Just late in the evening on Monday, OPM essentially told these agencies that it was voluntary, but it didn't help when Elon Musk then took to Twitter, and you highlighted it at the top there in his post on X, there you go, essentially saying that if you didn't respond to that first deadline, which was yesterday at 11:59 P.M., you'd have a second chance to respond. And if you didn't it, it would result in termination.

Again, the labor unions continue to say that this is not legal. They continue to say that Elon Musk is outside of the chain of command for many of these federal employees. And the president was actually asked about his thoughts on all of this yesterday in the White House. And he seemed to be in line with Elon Musk, essentially saying that if people did not follow the directive in the email, that they would be semi- fired, as he put it.

But I think the other thing that this all revealed is just that there are limitations and pushback by some within the Trump's circle, his cabinet secretaries, who are certainly loyalists, many of them, willing to take a stand and say, this has gone too far. And we saw that happen yesterday at agencies like the FBI, DOJ, Health and Human Services, where the agency heads essentially told federal employees not to comply.

So, we will see where today takes us, Pam, but, again, still a state of confusion for these federal employees throughout the federal government.

BROWN: My goodness. Rene Marsh, thank you.

So, how do Americans feel about what Elon Musk is doing right now? Let's run the numbers. CNN Chief Data Reporter Harry Enten joins us now. Hey, Harry.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA REPORTER: Hey.

BROWN: So, how much is Musk, DOGE, and these cuts energizing the opposition? ENTEN: I mean, this is what it's all about, right? Democrats were down and out after the election. DOGE and Musk has energized this opposition. You can see it right here. What is the top worst things Trump has done? You remember during that first term, it was really in the opening days, that immigration policy, but that actually comes in second place at 10 percent.

[10:05:03]

Look at this. Musk, DOGE, or the freezing -- the funding freezes or cuts, look at that, number one, at 24 percent. If there is one thing that Democrats and the opponents that Donald Trump hate right now more than anything else, it's Elon Musk and those cuts. It is truly energizing them at this moment.

BROWN: So, how are voters overall feeling about Musk's role in the Trump admin?

ENTEN: Yes. If there's one person that they really don't like in the Trump admin, it's Elon Musk and his role. Take a look here, key role for Musk and Trump's administration. Look at this. Just 42 percent, just 42 percent of registered voters approve. Just 39 percent of independents approve of the role that he currently has. Take a look here, though. What takes the cake? 54 percent disapprove. 54 percent, a considerably higher disapproval rating than Donald Trump has currently. As I've said before, if anything is going on right now, it's Elon Musk dragging Donald Trump down.

BROWN: Wow. Any signs things are getting better for Musk?

ENTEN: No. In fact, they're going in the wrong direction. Take a look here. Elon Musk net favorable rating, you go back to December of 2024, look, he was underwater, but it wasn't awful at minus five points. Look at where he is now in February of 2025, minus 12 points, way, way, way underwater. You need a scuba diver to get as far underwater as Elon Musk is at this particular point. He is way down there.

BROWN: Call out the scuba divers. It is interesting because you say, based on the data, Elon Musk is pulling Donald Trump down, but Donald Trump right now is still standing by Musk. Is there any good news for Musk and Trump in the data?

ENTEN: Yes, there's perhaps one piece of good news, and that is when it comes to these funding cuts, the type of spending Musk is mainly cutting. Look at the plurality answer here. 42 percent said it's actually wasteful spending that Elon Musk is cutting. 36 percent say he's cutting necessary programs. I think the big thing going forward will be this 20 percent who are not sure. They just don't like Elon Musk. They're not exactly sure what he's cutting, but they kind of feel like he's a flaky individual and they're not exactly sure on him. But this 20 percent going forward is going to be very key to determine whether or not Elon Musk stays in the White House, I don't know, longer than a few Scaramuccis.

BROWN: Oh, Harry Enten, always love having you on. And, by the way, congrats on the new title, Chief Data Reporter. Well deserved. Thanks, Harry.

ENTEN: Thank you very much.

BROWN: And let's continue this conversation. Justin Wolfers is a professor of economics and public policy at the University of Michigan. Hi, Justin. Thanks for being here.

So, let's dive right into it. The impact of the Doge cuts, many economists concede the mass layoffs and firings of federal workers will create, of course, great personal hardships, but will not dent the overall economy. Do you agree?

JUSTIN WOLFERS, PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS AND PUBLIC POLICY, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN: Absolutely. So, it's an interesting case study on how to do economics. So, first of all, you might ask the macro question, which is, is this going to affect GDP and employment and things like that? Well, it depends. DOGE claims to have saved $55 billion dollars.

But if you look at their website and add up their numbers, it's actually about a seventh of that, $7.3 billion dollars. And then if you go through and you eliminate all the accounting inaccuracies and the double counting and the misattribution, the Wall Street Journal reckons it's $2.3 billion.

Now, these sound like big numbers, so let me make it more human. So far, the DOGE savings add up to $7.05 per American. So, you can see how that doesn't have a big effect on the macro economy. The total employment of the federal workforce, it might fall a couple of hundred thousand, but that's how many jobs we add each month.

The more important question that most economists ask is, are these cuts worth it, which is to say, does each of these cuts yield a benefit larger than the cost? I'm happy to say more about that, but the benefit seems pretty small.

BROWN: So, let's dive a little bit more into that cost benefit ratio. What do you think about that?

WOLFERS: It really depends on what you're talking about. But when you're going in with a chainsaw, and it's an indiscriminate set of hacks, some of which are ideologically driven, it doesn't pass any sense of a cost benefit test. The White House is looking to cut 6,700 workers from the IRS. We know that for every extra dollar you spend trying to get the rich to actually pay the taxes that they owe, it yields $12 worth of tax revenue. So, investing less in that makes absolutely no sense.

DOGE is really focused on trying to eliminate the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau, which is basically the group that prevents you and I from getting ripped off by Wall Street. You defund that and it just means you and I get ripped off a little bit more often. They've gotten rid of surveys that track the educational attainment of young Americans. And so that's going to make it harder for us to track or fix our education system.

And as you go line by line by line, you realize that a lot of these cuts, in the short-term, you might pull it a saving, but in the long- term, they're really going to harm the quality of our government and eventually yours and my lives.

[10:10:007]

BROWN: So, I think that that trickledown effect is important, you know. And you have to wonder what the root cause is, you know, you look at the deficit, $36 trillion in debt Congress and congressional spending. I mean, is that really the root cause here is congressional spending? I mean, what can you do? I mean, this is a lot.

WOLFERS: So let me just point out. Whatever the question is, DOGE is not the answer. Let me explain. Elon Musk has said that he's aiming to save $2 trillion. Now, if he succeeded in doing that would move our budget from deficit back to being in balance or a small surplus, so quite a noble goal.

Think of it as like a football field, a hundred yards on a football field. If $2 trillion is a hundred yards, you need to save $20 billion, that's 1 in 100, to move the ball one yard forward. At this point, DOGE has moved the football forward one tenth of one yard. And so any sense that you might get that this is addressing our fiscal woes it's suggesting that DOGE simply doesn't understand where the real money is.

If you wanted to know where the real money is, it's not cutting federal payroll. Federal payroll is about $200 billion in total. If you look at the total amount of taxes that people don't pay, the IRS actually estimates the taxes that they end up not collecting, it's at least three times larger. And so if you really wanted to fix the federal budget, it would be going after things like collecting the taxes that people owe rather than trying to hack away at the people who collect those taxes.

BROWN: We just got some breaking news that is very timely just into CNN that says that U.S. consumer confidence tumbled in February, seeing the biggest monthly decline since August 2021. Justin, that is three and a half years. How troubling should this be for the White House?

WOLFERS: Well, I'm just getting those data as we speak too, but it is troubling. The consumer drives the U.S. economy. There's actually nothing bad happening in our economy in a broad perspective right now. Unemployment is low, inflation's on the way down, and things should be smooth sailing. The fact that consumers don't feel like it's smooth sailing, well, I think you've got one very obvious suspect, and that's the White House, which is showing uncertainty just about everywhere, whether it comes to trade policy, whether it's foreign policy. And I genuinely understand why consumers are nervous, and I hope this doesn't turn out to be a self-inflicted own goal.

BROWN: Justin Wolfer is always great to have you on. Thank you so much.

And coming up, under pressure, House Speaker Mike Johnson is expected to put a budget plan up for a floor vote today and he's asking for prayers to get through it. You can't blame him.

CNN's Manu Raju is live on Capitol Hill. Manu, Johnson is up against the clock and fellow Republicans.

MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And no margin for error in this narrowly divided House. You can only afford to lose one Republican vote. At least three so far are saying they would vote against this. What does this mean for the Trump agenda going forward? We'll talk about that when we return.

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BROWN: Well, this morning, House Republicans are scrambling to shore up support from within their own party as they look to bring their massive budget blueprint to the floor. It is a crucial first step in jumpstarting the president's agenda. House Speaker Mike Johnson appears to be pulling out all the stops as he looks to whip votes, even appealing to a higher power.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): We're going to get everybody there. This is a prayer request. Just pray this through for us, because it is very high stakes and everybody knows that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: CNN Chief Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill. So Manu, where do things stand right now?

RAJU: Yes, on a knife's edge. In fact, at the moment, the speaker does not have enough votes in his conference to move ahead with this plan. And it is extremely significant because they need to adopt a budget blueprint in order to unlock the larger Trump agenda.

Now, there's a disagreement between House Republicans and Senate Republicans on how to proceed, but the House Republicans have a plan that is sweeping in nature. Among the measures here, $2 trillion about is what they're seeking in constant, between $1.5 trillion and $2 trillion in spending cuts, additional $300 billion in funding for border security measures, immigration related measures, defense spending as well. And they want to debt limit increase for about two years, which costs about another $4 trillion.

On top of that, they're looking at $4.5 trillion sweeping overhaul of the United States tax code, but they first have to pass this budget resolution on the floor of the House tonight. But there's a problem. There are at least three Republicans on the right who are opposed to this because they're concerned it does not cut spending deep enough.

And there's Republicans in the middle of the conference who are worried that the cuts could come from programs like Medicaid and are warning the speaker not to cut any further, which is why there is a problem for the speaker at the moment. And in speaking to some of those hardliners over the last day, they are making clear to me that they're prepared to vote no and potentially sink this proposal.

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REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): If I had some indication that we could reduce some spending, I could possibly get there. But currently, I don't have those.

If we just turn right around and give it to the war pimps at the Pentagon,I don't see that as any savings whatsoever. It is no savings.

REP. ANDREW OGLES (R-TN): I don't think the votes are there. I'm currently a lean no, but we'll see where we get overnight.

[10:20:00]

RAJU: Why are you a lean no? Why are you a lean no?

OGLES: I just don't think it goes far enough.

RAJU: So, what are your concerns?

REP. ELI CRANE (R-AZ): Not enough. Not enough cuts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And that first congressman there, Tim Burchett, told me after a morning meeting with Speaker Johnson that he is still a no. The speaker still wants to move forward with the vote tonight. We'll see how they ultimately proceed.

Now, this all comes as there's also deep concerns, growing concerns among Republicans about how those cuts are being pushed through by Elon Musk and that Department of Government Efficiency along with the White House in trying to curtail federal programs without the consent of Congress. One Republican from New York, Andrew Garbarino, told me that he is concerned about the way this is being handled so far.

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RAJU: What about the way we're handling federal firings and pushing, purging the federal workforce? Are you comfortable with the way we're doing this so far?

REP. ANDREW GARBARINO (R-NY): Well, no. I mean, I think, as the speaker has said, as a lot of people have said, when we're doing these things, we've got to use a scalpel and not a chainsaw.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, that New York Republican was concerned in particular about cuts that were coming to a 9/11 survivors' health program that was pushed forward by Musk's group. Now, the White House later reversed that proposal, but it just speaks to the larger anxiety on Capitol Hill that Republicans in particular are feeling from their constituents back home, as they're going back home, hearing about these cuts that are forthcoming, and how they deal with the cuts that could be forthcoming in this larger Trump agenda that could be coming to a whole host of programs, including Medicaid.

That's a big issue that the speaker has to navigate tonight to try to jumpstart the Trump agenda. Can he do it? We'll see on the House floor as soon as this evening.

BROWN: Yes. We have a Republican House member on later on the show. We're going to, of course, ask about that, because that could be a big sticking point.

Manu Raju, thank you so much.

So, how are Trump voters feeling about the first month of the second Trump administration? CNN's John King is going all over the map, and his latest stop takes him to Colorado to check in with those who supported the president.

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JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): This small ranch spans more than 100 acres, home to 60 horses, and 1 last bison.

DAVID HAYES, COLORADO TRUMP VOTER: This little guy down here, his name is Trouble.

KING: A bit ornery at times. Yes, trouble.

HAYES: You know, it's like Trump, I really don't like him as a person. I think he's arrogant, kind of a jerk.

KING: But David Hayes is a funny man.

HAYES: I tried farming for a while and I would rather get run over by a bison, you know?

KING: The Northern Colorado ranch has been in his family since the 1880s. The White House and Washington are far away.

HAYES: We're going to go like hot dogs.

KING: Yes, Hayes wants the government shrunk, but he doesn't see a coherent plan and he doesn't trust Elon Musk, doesn't believe what he says, doesn't want Trump letting Musk poke around Social Security or tax files.

HAYES: I don't know how many people he's fired. And, you know, Musk keeps saying, well, I found a billion dollars of waste here, and Social Security, there's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people that are collecting it that are between 100 years old and 150. Can you believe any of that crap? You can't substantiate it, but you can't believe it. So, that's a trust issue.

KING: A blue collar rural guy in one of the nation's most competitive congressional districts, a three-time Trump voter who calls the president unfocused and arrogant. But Democrats should hold the celebration.

But if you had to do over tomorrow, and you had to pick again between Trump and Harris, what would you do?

HAYES: I would still do Trump.

KING: So, conservative independent, is that fair?

ESMERALDA RAMIREZ-RAY, COLORADO TRUMP VOTER: Very conservative independent, yes.

KING: So would Esmeralda Ramirez-Ray. She smiles when asked about Trump's frenetic first month.

RAMIREZ-RAY: I voted for that. I love it.

KING: What did you vote for?

RAMIREZ-RAY: I voted for a president that was going to put America first. I voted for a president that was going to secure our borders. And I voted for a president that was going to make sure that we were respected throughout the world. And I believe I'm getting that.

KING: Greeley is the northern edge of Colorado's 8th, a congressional district that is 40 percent Hispanic and has a significant undocumented population. Ramirez-Ray is a court interpreter for defendants who don't speak English. She agrees with Trump that some who cross the border illegally are violent criminals, but she wishes he would add that the overwhelming majority are good people.

RAMIREZ-RAY: I was raised as a migrant worker working in the fields. Those are the people that are out there picking their crops. So, even though I support Trump, I don't believe that he's the end all, be all savior of humanity. Nobody is.

TODD WAUFLE, COLORADO TRUMP VOTER: Now this one, we've had Canadian hoser for a long time before all this stuff came up, all the fights with American and Canadian hockey players and everything.

KING: Like Hayes, Todd Waufle says Trump can be arrogant and pompous. But like Ramirez-Ray, he's a fan of the early pace.

WAUFLE: I like him going full speed. Let's get things done. Let's find out if the policies work, they don't work.

But, yes, this is the baby brewing system. Boil it up there.

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KING: Waffle started satire brewing seven years ago. Business is good, and he constantly debates expanding. But a plan to boost sales by adding canning machines is on hold because of Trump tariffs on aluminum.

WAUFLE: When you fly enough, you understand, you know, buckle your seatbelt, turbulence ahead.

KING: Waffle's approach is a trademark of many Trump voters. Accept the things that make you cringe to get the things you want, like a better economy, and a stronger border.

WAUFLE: Trump's going to say what he's going to say. And, yes, some of it's going to be exaggerated, some of it's not going to be true. But at the end of the day, I think you got to, you know, sift through all that. Is he going to get things done? Is he going to get the country moving the right way?

KING: Let go right in front of your eyes, just like that.

KING: Austin Jenkins voted for lower taxes and less regulation. That would help his small businesses, including this cocktail bar and the Greeley Hatchet House.

AUSTIN JENKINS, COLORADO TRUMP VOTER: He seemed like the lesser of two evils in my opinion.

KING: But Jenkins finds the first month unsettling. Not a fan of tariffs, or executive orders by the dozens, or Musk popping from agency to agency.

JENKINS: I thought there was supposed to be checks and balances somewhere.

KING: So, where do I want to let go? Shoulder?

JENKINS: Right in front of your eyes. So --

KING: Plus, he sees fear in the Latino community, wishes Trump would find a more compassionate way to improve border security.

JENKINS: I think there's a better way to go about it. I don't know if it's necessarily just force them out. Trump, of course, won't be on the ballot next election but this district will help decide whether Republicans keep their tiny House majority.

JENKINS: The cost of living is getting crazy here in Colorado. And I hope that they would have some kind of an impact of helping that.

KING: The new Republican congressman won by just 2,000 votes. His 2026 reelection prospects will likely hint on Trump's performance on whether swing voters here see the president as focused on the big issues or veering too far off target.

John King, CNN, Greeley, Colorado.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We are following breaking news from the Supreme Court. The justices ordering a new trial for an Oklahoma death row inmate whose case drew national attention. That's next.

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