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CNN International: Hamas Transfers Four Bodies to Red Cross; First Phase of Ceasefire to End this Weekend; Zelenskyy to Visit WH Friday; Trump: Ukraine Can Forget About Joining NATO; Trump's First Cabinet Meeting; Musk at Trump's First Cabinet Meeting; NVIDIA Results Beat Expectations; China Eyes Opportunities Under Trump; Trump Won't Say if U.S. Would Stop China Taking Taiwan by Force; N. Korea Reopens to Western Travelers. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired February 26, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington, D.C.
Just ahead, Hamas has handed what it says are the bodies of four Israeli hostages to the Red Cross. Donald Trump says it is up to Europe to make security guarantees to Ukraine, and the country can forget about joining NATO. We speak to the E.U.'s foreign policy chief, Kaja Kallas, coming up. And the president refuses to answer a question on whether he would prevent China from taking Taiwan by force.
The breaking news to CNN, an Israeli security official says that four bodies have been transferred to the Red Cross by Hamas. Hamas was due to transfer the bodies of those four hostages over to Israel in the final handover agreed to under the first phase of that hostage and ceasefire deal. Israel is now expected to release hundreds of Palestinian prisoners in return. We have not heard a confirmation yet that those four bodies transferred by Hamas are, in fact, the bodies of the four hostages.
All this comes the same day a funeral was held for three members of the Bibas family. A mother and her two young sons were taken hostage on October 7th, their bodies returned just last week.
Joining me now is Firas Maksad. He's the managing director for the Middle East and North Africa at the Eurasia group. Firas, it's always good to have you. I wonder it was not certain that we would get to this stage of even the first stage -- first phase of this ceasefire deal. I suppose the question is what happens now? Is there any chance that this agreement moves on to a second phase?
FIRAS MAKSAD, MIDDLE EAST AND NORTH AFRICA MANAGING DIRECTOR, EURASIA GROUP: Well, Jim, it's good to be with you. It got pretty rocky at some point before we got here. It is quite surprising that we did. Very encouraging indeed. I think the most sort of momentous event for the past couple of weeks is the president's declarations on Gaza and wanting to move Palestinians out of Gaza, the Riviera on the Gaza waterfront. And I think part of that was to give the Israeli prime minister some political cover that he needed within his governing coalition in Israel, more right-wing elements of his government exactly to get to where we are today, which is to carry through into the second part of the ceasefire agreement, which essentially not only has Hamas releasing all the alive hostages but also to have Israel essentially agreed to ending the war, something that members of Netanyahu's coalition have threatened to leave if he, in fact, accepts.
So, we will see negotiations now unfold either in Doha, Qatar, or in Egypt. The presidential envoy, Steven Witkoff is due back in the region this weekend, and we're going to begin negotiations on phase two.
SCIUTTO: Here's quite a basic question, does President Trump want phase two to take place? Would he be willing to apply pressure to Netanyahu to -- well, the terms of a second phase, including the permanent end of hostilities? That's something that the Israeli prime minister has been loath to do so far.
MAKSAD: Well, that's the key question. Before we got here, there was a lot of presumption that, in fact, both Bibi and Trump are going to lock horns at some point, because their interests are going to diverge.
Trump very much has an interest in seeing that ceasefire through, getting to an end to the hostilities in Gaza, but also a sustainable ceasefire in Lebanon because he wants to move forward on the Abrahamic Accords, this kind of normalization process that now might include Saudi Arabia and Israel, bringing other Arab countries. He wants that to be his legacy in the Middle East. Bibi Netanyahu has a problem politically in Israel if he is to go that far.
So, the question now is that, you know, given the fact that Trump has given Netanyahu a lot of leeway, a lot of credit, a lot of space internally in Israel, will Netanyahu deliver or we're going to see the two men lock horns on this, and President Trump have to bring some pressure on the men.
SCIUTTO: Yes, if Trump does want that agreement, you have to imagine that Saudi Arabia would insist on some commitment to a two-state solution for the Palestinians. But before we go, President Trump still has not quite given up it seems on this idea of the U.S. taking over Gaza as some big major property development there.
Is that serious? We already know that Jordan and Egypt have said quite definitively they will not accept the forced removal of millions of Palestinians onto their land. Is it serious? And if not, why would Trump keep sticking to the idea, advertising it?
[18:05:00]
MAKSAD: Yes. Listen, none of us can get in the head of President Trump. I think it certainly served a political purpose for him. Again, helping Bibi Netanyahu to get to this stage of the negotiation -- of the negotiated ceasefire.
There is an emergency Arab summit on March 4th, exactly to come to a response to President Trump proposal on Gaza. And so, in many ways, it's going to force the Arabs now to think about the day after, the war ends in Gaza, and what they're willing to do, what they're willing to put on the table, what kind of assistance they're willing to put forward and kind of the rebuilding of Gaza, but also in terms of the security and political arrangements of the day after.
Not where the Arabs wanted to be. The Arabs in return for all that wants some kind of a commitment towards a Palestinian self- determination, perhaps a pathway towards the state. And yes, the Saudis are very much underscoring that that's going to be their condition if they're ever to contemplate normalizing relations with the Israelis.
SCIUTTO: Firas Maksad, managing director of Middle East, North Africa at the Eurasian Group, thanks so much for joining.
MAKSAD: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Well, another story we're following quite closely today, U.S. President Trump confirmed that he will meet on Friday with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. The two are expected to sign a deal on natural resources and reconstruction. The deal will not include any U.S. security commitment to Ukraine. For that, President Trump says it will be up to Ukraine and Europe alone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Well, I'm not going to make security guarantees beyond very much. We're going to have Europe do that because it's in -- you know, we're talking about Europe as their next- door neighbor. NATO you can forget about. That's been -- I think that's probably the reason the whole thing started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: In fact, Russia invaded Ukraine. President Zelenskyy called the agreement a framework that can't possibly be part of a future agreement that might include security guarantees.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): If we understand that the U.S. will be one of the countries or one of the leading countries who give security guarantees, then this could be a success or the first step towards a sustainable fair peace growth of the Ukrainian economy, or if it's just some sort of beginning without a vision for the end. We will make conclusions after my conversation with President Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP) SCIUTTO: Zelenskyy did say that as part of that initial deal, Ukraine will not repay aid previously supplied by Washington. The leader of the nation, Russia invaded three years ago, remains without any public assurances from Washington or even an acknowledgement from the new administration that it was Russia which invaded, which of course is a fact.
Joining me now is Kaja Kallas. She's the E.U.'s high representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy. She's also, of course, the former Prime Minister of Estonia. Thanks so much for joining.
KAJA KALLAS, E.U. FOREIGN POLICY CHIEF AND FORMER ESTONIAN PRIME MINISTER: Good to be here.
SCIUTTO: I wonder, following your visit here to Washington, will you be leaving with any more hope or confidence that the U.S. will come to a point where it gives Ukraine some form of a security guarantee?
KALLAS: Well, listening to President Zelenskyy and President Trump, it is clear that when the minerals deal is signed, then America has also economic interest in Ukraine, and that could mean that they also have interest in defending Ukraine, because it's also the America's economic interest at play here.
SCIUTTO: So, that would be quite an exchange, would it not, though? Because one would imagine an American leader would maintain its commitment to an ally that was invaded by Russia. It sounds to some in this country that Trump wants some sort of financial gain in return. Is that something that you would expect, a treaty ally to demand?
KALLAS: I mean, we are, of course, in constant contact with our American friends here and everybody -- I mean, Republicans are telling us that, you know, President Trump is a great negotiator and it's part of a bigger plan to really, I mean, come up with a really good plan how to secure lasting peace.
I mean, of course, getting into ceasefire or like really quick deals is very easy because you give everything what Russia wants and then you have the deal, but you don't have peace. You don't have long standing peace, and that is, of course, our interest that Russia would not attack again.
I mean, Russia is spending more than 9 percent of its GDP on military. They will want to use it again, and then the question is on what and whom they are using this power.
[18:10:00]
SCIUTTO: You've been a steadfast supporter of Ukraine both as prime minister of Estonia and now in your role with the E.U. I wonder what your reaction was to seeing the U.S. vote against a U.N. resolution stating the simple fact that Russia was the aggressor as it invaded Ukraine. What was your reaction to that?
KALLAS: I mean, it was very surprising to see America in the same group with Nicaragua, Haiti, North Korea, Russia, Belarussia, Mali, Sudan. So, you know, it seems like America has a new group of friends.
SCIUTTO: The incoming German leader, Friedrich Mertz, has said that, in his view, Europe can no longer rely on the U.S. to abide by Article 5 of the NATO charter to defend a NATO ally if it were attacked. And he's not alone. Other Europeans have questioned that. And you just heard President Trump say there that, well, it's up to Europe to handle Ukraine's security. Do you agree that the U.S. commitment to Article 5 is waning?
KALLAS: I mean, President Trump has been very clear also in his first mandate that Europe needs to spend more on defense. And Europe has heard President Trump loud and clear because we are spending more on defense and we need to do more. That is very clear. But we also understand that we are strong together, if we are together with our American allies.
And I want to say that the only time the Article 5 of NATO has been used is for the benefit of United States after the 9/11. And for example, my country, Estonia, has lost the -- I mean, soldiers in those wars, exactly the same per capita as America. So, we were there for America when America asked. And that's what NATO is all about.
So, I'm not willing to let that go. And I don't think the Americans are also willing. Because we have built the transatlantic partnership. We have adversaries outside. North Korea, Iran, I mean, Russia, more covertly China, working together. And we need to stick with those partners who share the same values.
SCIUTTO: Can Europe do it by itself? Can it -- I mean, just beginning with Ukraine, can Europe defend Ukraine or provide the security guarantees it wants? And then, more broadly, can Europe defend itself by itself?
KALLAS: I mean, we are, you know, really investing more to our own defense, but we're also helping Ukraine more. And if we meet with the Ukrainians, we ask, OK, are you resisting? They say, yes, we don't have a choice because it's our freedom, what we are talking about. So, we have to defend our country.
So, 55 percent of the military expenditure comes from their own budget, 25 percent comes from European Union and European member states. 20 percent comes from United States of America. So, it's a big share, that is very clear, but I mean, it's not 80 percent.
So, it is clear that Europe is doing more. And we are having, you know, new initiatives, we are having new plans, what we can do really in short timeframe. But what I want to stress is that it is also in the interest of United States of America to invest in the defense of Ukraine, because it's not really, you know, charity, it's actually investment to your own security. And I'm talking about the global world order where might does not make right.
SCIUTTO: You have told me before that if Russia succeeds in Ukraine that it might very well attack a NATO ally next, including perhaps your home nation of Estonia, the Baltic States. And by the way, we should note that President Putin denies their independence just as much as he denies the independence or the right independence of Ukraine.
Do you believe that if Ukraine falls, that perhaps Estonia or another NATO ally would be next? That Russia would take that as a signal that it could and that this American president would not respond?
KALLAS: Well, first, there are no, you know, first or second-class NATO members, there are just NATO members. So, if there is attack on one, it's attack on all. That is the Article 5 that we have in NATO. So, I wouldn't, you know, keep this separation of those who have the borders. If Russia attacks, we are in this.
But I mean, the other neighbors that Russia has. I mean, there are neighbors that have critical raw materials that are also afraid and looking towards Europe that, you know, we want to build up alliances with us regarding this.
[18:15:00]
So, what I want to stress is that they are investing more than 9 percent of the GDP on the military. They will want to use it again unless we are very firm, very strong that this aggression cannot pay off. If it pays off, it definitely serves as an invitation to use it more.
SCIUTTO: As you well remember, after Russia's invasion, in the early days after the invasion, there were many folks who said, one, Ukraine would fall very quickly. Ukraine would lose very quickly. And that Europe would be split on this. That Europe would not unite behind Ukraine. And neither of those things happened. Ukraine has fought bravely for three years and Europe stayed together, largely, added two new members in Sweden and Finland. Is it possible, in your view, that with the U.S. pulling back, that perhaps Europe surprises on the upside?
KALLAS: Well, we are definitely strong when we are acting together. And we have many initiatives what we can do more. I think we shouldn't underestimate our own power and overestimate Russia's power. Because we see that their economy is not doing well. Their inflation is over 21 percent. Their national fund is almost completely depleted. They don't have the same revenues from oil and gas that they used to. Their employment market is in a really bad shape.
So, actually, you know, they want us to believe that, you know, Russia can outlast and, you know, we can, you know, keep this war ongoing. It's not true. If we focus our powers and strength and really pressure them economically, but also help Ukraine militarily, then, you know, we can also end this war and so that it doesn't end with Russia's victory.
SCIUTTO: Kaja Kallas, we appreciate you taking the time, and we appreciate the work that you do.
KALLAS: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Thanks so much for joining. We do have breaking news just into CNN, and that is that Israel is now releasing Palestinian prisoners that as part of this ceasefire and hostage agreement. This is the scene right now live in Ramallah, in the West Bank, as those Palestinian prisoners, there's one there, scarf around his neck, and crowds celebrating their release. This comes as Hamas in Gaza has handed over four bodies, which it says are the remains of four Israeli hostages.
An Israeli security official confirms the bodies were handed over to the Red Cross. We don't know yet exactly how many Palestinian prisoners Israel is releasing. We will bring you more information as it comes.
Well, President Trump covered a wide range of subjects during his first full cabinet meeting this afternoon. He said that U.S. tariffs on Mexico and on Canada will now take effect in April. That is when retaliatory tariffs for all other countries are set to start as well. The president said he was not worried about other countries trying to push back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We are the pot of gold. We're the one that everybody wants. And they can retaliate, but it cannot be a successful retaliation. Because we just go cold turkey. We don't buy anymore. And if that happens, we win.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Elon Musk, the unofficial head of DOGE, as it's known, was also holding court at the meeting. He spoke about the controversial e- mail sent to federal employees, asking them, demanding really, that they list their accomplishments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELON MUSK, PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: We think there are a number of people on the government payroll who are dead, which is probably why they can't respond. And some people who are not real people, like they're literally fictional individuals that are collecting paycheck. Well, somebody's collecting paychecks on a fictional individual. So, we're just literally trying to figure out are these people real? Are they alive, and can they write an e-mail?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Joining me now is CNN Senior Political Analyst Ron Brownstein. You know, Ron, the administration has said repeatedly, oh, Musk, he's just a low-level government adviser here. He's not a cabinet member. There he was at the cabinet meeting, holding court. What is he?
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. Well, look, I mean, they've struggled, you know, not only to the public, which is one thing, but they've struggled with courts to explain exactly what his role is, you know, seeming to want to minimize it in judicial proceedings against the DOGE initiatives to reduce his exposure. And then, obviously, they need to maximize it through these kind of public displays from Trump in order to increase his leverage over the cabinet officials, none of whom are willing, of course, as you might not expect, in this public setting to raise concerns about what he's doing, but plenty of whom have raised -- you know, have privately raised at least some concerns.
[18:20:00]
So, you know, I think it's the latter. I mean, you can't really ask for a more a concise demonstration of his importance and influence that Trump had him speak before any of the cabinet members got to open their mouth. That was about as clear a signal as you can get whatever the kind of subterfuge or kind of, you know, three card Monte they're trying to play in court, I think you got a pretty good indication of what is a real influence is there.
SCIUTTO: We are hearing that some of the other cabinet secretaries aren't exactly happy with Elon Musk and those e-mails and in public polling, the American public seems to give him low approval ratings. I mean, my first question is, does that matter because Trump seems to like him or do you imagine that his -- he might overstay his welcome at some point?
BROWNSTEIN: You know, there's no one who has worked for Donald Trump who has not overstayed his welcome just about, at least no one whose last name wasn't also Trump. I mean, you know, Trump has no permanent alliances. And he turns on almost everyone who works with him ultimately has a falling out. I suspect that will happen eventually with Musk more likely than not.
Musk is useful in the sense of being a heat shield. And, you know, it's -- you know, it's striking, though, Jim, that this effort to kind of strip mine the federal government severely reduced the workforce, cut agencies, this has become the defining narrative of the Trump presidency so far, more than anything else, and he was elected to solve one problem above all, inflation.
I mean, if you look at both the exit polls and the vote cast, more of his voters cited inflation as the key reason they voted for him than anything else. And, you know, we have seen indications in both the University of Michigan and the conference board consumer confidence surveys in the last few days, Americans are worried about the trends on inflation. And, you know, the price of eggs, literally the price of eggs.
So, you know, Trump has kind of detoured into this huge fight, which conservatives have wanted to pursue for many years about reducing the role of government and retrenching its ability to regulate business. But they may be taking their eye off what got them elected and what the public remains most concerned about.
SCIUTTO: We'll know. We will know. Ron Brownstein, thanks so much.
BROWNSTEIN: Thanks for having me. SCIUTTO: Still ahead, the profit report that the entire tech world was waiting for. We're going to break down the numbers as the chip giant, NVIDIA, reports on the strength of the A.I. spending boom.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:25:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back. It was another volatile ride on Wall Street Wednesday. U.S. stocks giving up solid gains from earlier in the session to close mixed. The S&P 500 finishing in the green for the first time in five sessions, but only barely. Tariff uncertainty weighing on sentiment once again. This after President Trump's new threat placed 25 percent tariffs on goods from the E.U. Trump is also saying he's delaying 25 percent tariffs on Mexico and Canada, but that he intends to put them on -- in April.
Amid the tariff concerns, CNN's Fear and Greed Index remains stuck in the extreme fear territory. The nervousness reflected in the price of riskier assets such as Bitcoin, the cryptocurrency currently down about 5 percent. It has fallen 10 percent year to date.
Just a few hours ago, A.I. chip giant NVIDIA released perhaps the most eagerly awaited report of the tech earning season. The company reported record sales revenue as well as strong profits, guidance for current quarter coming in higher than expected to. That said, the company share price only modestly higher in afterhours training.
Concerns are remaining over the need for massive levels of spending on things such as NVIDIA chips, this after China's DeepSeek unveiled its lessons, expensive model for A.I. which relies on far fewer chips.
NVIDIA shares have also come under pressure amid reports. The Trump administration is now considering further export controls on U.S. chips.
Dan Ives joins me now. He's a managing director, senior equity research analyst at Wedbush Securities. Thanks so much for joining. It's not been a great 2025 for NVIDIA shares up and down, particularly after DeepSeek made its announcement. I wonder, does this report ease those concerns sufficiently?
DAN IVES, MANAGING DIRECTOR, WEDBUSH SECURITIES AND SENIOR EQUITY RESEARCH ANALYST, WEDBUSH SECURITIES: Yes. Look I mean, clearly, DeepSeek, that's really been the white-knuckle moment, but when you look at these results, it's jaw dropping. I mean, what they're seeing with Blackwell demand, the chips that are fueling the A.I. revolution, it's actually accelerating.
So, I think this is one that's going to have a huge impact over the coming weeks and months in terms of showing the DeepSeek fears were really that. And in actuality, DeepSeek is actually driving even more demand for NVIDIA.
SCIUTTO: But tell me why, because DeepSeek, you know, made its jump with far fewer chips. And the thinking had been you need to kind of flood the zone with chips, and that was part of the reason NVIDIA sales had been so robust, and its stock has been rising so much. So, how can both those things be true?
IVES: Yes. No, it's great -- look, the issue here is that DeepSeek's a model, just like ChatGPT, just like anyone, Perplexity or LLaMA. But when you look at all this cap access being spent by big tech, 325 billion this year, a hundred billion increase, it's not about the models. The models, the cheaper they get is actually bullish. It's for enterprises, companies, massive enterprise use cases for A.I. And that's where -- that's what's fueling NVIDIA.
So, the better the models get, there's only one chip in the world that's going to ultimately fuel this. It's the godfather of A.I., Jensen and NVIDIA. And that's why they continue to be the foundation, the bedrock. Not just of tech, I think of the global markets.
SCIUTTO: Got it. OK. I want to ask you about another company, because Tesla shares, they were down again on Wednesday. This after they announced that their European sales plunged 45 percent in a month. I mean, that's an enormous blow. How big a blow is that to its European sales going forward? Is that a lasting drop there? And is that something that Tesla can survive?
IVES: Yes, look, I heard that in your interview before. Look, for Musk, I continue to think the best -- the bet for the ages was on Trump. Because ultimately, him having a front row seat, despite all the issues, in terms of DOGE, brand distractions, brand deterioration, autonomous, that's the goal at the rainbow. That's, I think, worth a trillion dollars loan to Tesla.
But no doubt I think about 10 to 15 percent of the decline we're seeing in Europe is brand deterioration related to Musk. It's having a negative impact. But that's something where I think investors understand, to go with the bad and take the good far outweighs the bad relative to autonomous and him having, you know, I think a key role, at least unofficially, in this Trump White House.
SCIUTTO: Dan Ives, thanks so much.
IVES: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Wedbush Securities, appreciate you joining.
Well, the Trump presidency is leading to a new world order, perhaps disorder, as its America First policy opens a window now for China to fill the void. We're going to discuss. That's a possibility right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:30:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to the CNN Newsroom. I'm Jim Sciutto. And here are more international headlines we are watching today.
An Israeli security official says that four bodies have been transferred to the Red Cross by Hamas. Hamas was due to transfer the bodies of four hostages over to Israel in the final handover agreed to under the first phase of the ceasefire and hostage deal. We have not yet heard confirmation that those four bodies are in fact the four Israeli hostages.
Israel is releasing Palestinian prisoners in return. This video shows some of those prisoners released in the West Bank. The Palestinian official said earlier 43 were expected to get their freedom today.
Actress Michelle Trachtenberg has died at the age of 39. She was known for her roles in films such as "Harriet the Spy," shows like "Gossip Girl" and "Buffy the Vampire Slayer." Police say she was found unresponsive in her New York City apartment. There appears to be no criminal intent.
And in Northern India, the world's largest religious gathering is now wrapping up. More than 600 million people attended the festival there over some 45 days. Nearly a third of India's population. Hindu devotees have been taking a holy dip in the confluence of three sacred rivers to wash away their sins. They're being warned the water, however, is polluted with unsafe levels of contamination.
The Trump administration is now, quite quickly, rewriting the U.S. foreign policy rule book. In a number of weeks, strategic shifts alienating European allies, warming up relations with the adversary, Russia. Add to that, a new willingness to take control over, or attempt to, other countries sovereign territory.
In the wake of all this, China is eyeing opportunities to advance its influence, fill that void left by America with the goal of promoting Xi Jinping as an alternative global leader to President Trump and the United States.
[18:35:00]
CNN's Simone McCarthy has been digging deeper into this in an article she wrote for CNN.com and she joins us now. So, wonder, how does China view this America first approach under President Trump and this retreat, frankly, from a series of U.S. alliances on from a role as, in effect, a world policeman, as some have described it? Does it welcome that change?
SIMONE MCCARTHY, CNN SENIOR NEWS DESK REPORTER ON CHINA: Well, Jim, you can be sure that officials in Beijing are watching these developments really closely. As you mentioned, Chinese leader Xi Jinping has long sought to portray China as an alternative leader to the United States, as a reliable partner that hopes to benefit the world and help with its development.
And so, now -- and you know, it's really also sought to present Washington as a bully, someone making unilateral actions, sowing chaos in the world. And so, really, the moves that we've seen from the Trump administration, pulling back from international agencies, freezing American foreign assistance, as well as, frankly, talking about taking control of other countries sovereign territory, these are all things that China is really seeing as playing into its messaging. Of course, countries are aware of China's own aggression in the South China Sea, its intimidation of Taiwan. But at the same time, there's been this ongoing soft power struggle between China and the United States playing out for decades, and this really plays into Beijing's interests in that regard.
SCIUTTO: You mentioned foreign aid, and Trump has really taken a chainsaw to USAID, and that has been an arm of American influence brought through multiple administrations, Democratic and Republican, an arm of soft power, in effect, as you mentioned. Have we seen tangible steps of China trying to step in and fill that void, places where the U.S. spent USAID money, and China saying, hey, I'm here, I can fill that gap?
MCCARTHY: Well, it's a really interesting question. I mean, on the one hand, China has had a tremendous role in development globally, but that's been through China's expansive infrastructure drive, the Belt and Road Initiative. And really, the model of that is very different from what we've seen in terms of U.S. foreign assistance. The Belt and Road is really loans and financing, whereas the U.S. has been giving direct aid.
So, China isn't really built to do that kind of stepping up. On the other hand, we are seeing specific instances where China may be, especially in strategic places, thinking, OK, maybe I should enhance assistance here or there. I think, certainly, we could expect to perhaps see that at the United Nations, certain places in Asia.
But you know, the other thing too is that this is happening at a very difficult time for the Chinese economy China's economy is slowing down. It's got these problems at home, like unemployment, deflation, things like that. So, if this was five, 10 years ago, when China was pouring tens of billions of dollars into its overseas infrastructure projects through the Belt and Road, well, then frankly, we might really see that China would be able to step up and if not fill the void in the same way as the United States at least be able to really capitalize on that. But I don't think, frankly, that Beijing's really in a position to do that at this point.
SCIUTTO: Simone McCarthy, it's something we're all going to be following quite closely in the coming weeks, months, and years. You can read Simone's piece on CNN.com. It's worth a look.
Well, China, no doubt, is paying close attention to President Trump's comments on Taiwan today. The president refused to say whether the U.S. would defend the island if it were attacked by China. Here's that exchange with a reporter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it also your policy that as long as you are president, China will never take Taiwan by force?
TRUMP: I never comment on that. I don't comment on anything because I don't want to ever put myself in that position. And if I said it, I certainly wouldn't be saying it to you. I'd be saying it to other people, maybe people around this table. Very specific people around this table. So, I don't want to put myself in that position. But I can tell you what. I have a great relationship with President Xi, I've had a great relationship with him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: So, what should the Taiwanese people make of that comment? In my book. "The Return of Great Powers: Russia, China, and the Next World War," a former senior Trump official put it to me like this, quote, "If I were Taiwan, I would be very worried about a Trump administration." This from the former national security adviser, John Bolton. Adding that Trump would hold up the tip of his Sharpie pen and say, that's Taiwan. See this resolute desk? That's China. His point, Taiwan is too small to defend itself against a Chinese invasion and too small for the U.S. to care about.
I want to bring in Russell Hsiao. He's the executive director of the Global Taiwan Institute, a nonprofit dedicated to policy issues. Thanks so much for joining.
RUSSELL HSIAO, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, GLOBAL TAIWAN INSTITUTE: Thank you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: I wonder how you took Trump's comments today. Because President Biden did something previous American presidents had not done, which is to say explicitly, and he did this more than once, that the U.S. would defend Taiwan militarily, Trump deliberately avoiding that there. Is that a warning to Taiwan?
[18:40:00]
HSIAO: Well, Jim, you're absolutely right. The statement made by President Trump today stands in sharp contrast to the statements that have been made by President Biden. On four occasions in fact where he stated that the United States would intervene militarily in the event of a military invasion of Taiwan.
Those statements I took as incremental clarity in terms of U.S. commitments to the defense of Taiwan. And I think those were received very positively in Taiwan for the commitment that President Biden has made in regards to Taiwan's defense.
However, President Trump's own statements with regards to defense of Taiwan isn't it actually a very far departure from the traditional posture that the United States has traditionally taken with regards to the defense of Taiwan, and that is a position of strategic ambiguity, and that is neither committing to the defense of Taiwan nor explicitly denying that he would, in fact, defend Taiwan.
You play these statements that were made by administration officials close to Trump in the former administration, and those are warnings that are important to take into consideration because the president, Trump himself, has not stated too much explicitly with regards to what he intends to do in the event of a military crisis over Taiwan. And as such, such warnings need to be taken seriously when he remains noncommittal to the defense of Taiwan. SCIUTTO: You will hear from some Trump administration officials and other Trump allies that listen, yes, he's retreating from Europe and Ukraine, but that's in part because he and the administration wants to focus its attention on China. One, do you believe that that is something that you can do? Say, Russia, we're your friends now, we can deal with you. China, we're going to confront you. Because Russia and China, of course, I mean, they are advertising this no limits partnership that they're on the same page.
HSIAO: Well, you know, I think you hit the nail on the head here in terms of the situation unfolding over Ukraine. And I think just to address, you know, that question right now, I think the events unfolding right now over Ukraine are deeply unsettling for Taiwan.
You know, for the past three years, Taiwan's leaders have been making the case that fates of democracies are intertwined and that the future of Ukraine matters for Taiwan. Taiwan's current vice president who was the former representative here to the United States, have stated, and I quote, "Ukraine's survival is Taiwan's survival. Ukraine's success is Taiwan's success. Our futures are closely linked," end quote.
And I think that sentiment really underscores the sense of solidarity and connection that leaders in Asia see with the military crisis over Ukraine. And that applies not only to Taiwan, but Japanese leaders, a treaty ally of the United States. Numerous Japanese prime ministers have stated that today's Ukraine could be tomorrow's East Asia.
And I think this really underscores the interconnections that exist right now between these two distant theaters, but really connected by the fact, as you alluded to, the authoritarian aggression that exists by --
SCIUTTO: In my reporting travels, I haven't met anyone in either sphere who has not made a direct connection between Ukraine's fate and Taiwan's fate. So, I wonder there's a lot of talk now in Europe about Ukraine's plan B. If the U.S. withdraws, how do they fill that gap? Does Taiwan have a plan B? If the U.S. would -- were not willing to defend Taiwan, can Taiwan defend itself? Does it have another partner who can take up the slack, or partners?
HSIAO: Well, really, at the end of the day, the most critical security partner of the United -- of Taiwan is the United States. And so, there is no substitute for the support of the United States for Taiwan security. But nevertheless, I think we have to think about deterrence holistically, and we cannot only focus on hard part of deterrence, which the current Trump administration appears focused upon. We have to look upon international, political, economic measures that can also tip the balance in favor of Xi Jinping waking up in the morning saying, today is not the day.
And so, therefore, it's important to look at this in a more holistic manner. Not only the United States, but Taiwan needs to do more for its own defenses. And that's some -- and that's, I think, where Taiwan's leaders are taking it -- taking the direction right now.
SCIUTTO: Yes, including promising to buy more American weapons, something that they hope will convince Trump to keep the flow going. Russell Hsiao, thanks so much for joining. We appreciate your point of view.
Coming up, extreme tourism. North Korea is reopening now to Western tourists and social media influencers are signing up. More on that in just a moment.
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SCIUTTO: Welcome back. North Korea is now reopening to Western tourists just months after allowing visitors in from Russia. This is part of a slow reopening post-pandemic there. For now, no stops in Pyongyang. Tourists are currently limited to Raison, a special economic zone. However, that is not stopping travel influencers looking for exclusive content. Will Ripley has this report from Taipei.
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WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At first glance, this could be any elementary school recital until you notice the backdrop.
MIKE O'KENNEDY, BRITISH YOUTUBER: It's not until moments where you see a group of seven year old children doing synchronized dancing in front of a giant, you know, LED screen showing missiles, you know, blowing up boats, you know, and it's like, oh, yes -- I'm in North Korea.
RIPLEY (voice-over): British travel influencer Mike O'Kennedy, one of the first Western tourists to visit North Korea since before the pandemic. State-controlled Western tourism is making a limited return to Rason, an isolated region near China and Russia.
O'KENNEDY: One of the most interesting parts for me was that. You know, given the fact that tourists haven't been allowed in for five years, there was a sense of isolation in the air.
RIPLEY (voice-over): Strict COVID-19 protocols kept already isolated North Korea even more sealed off from the world.
JUSTIN MARTELL, TOUR OPERATOR, YOUNG PIONEER TOURS: But there seems to be a rumor that COVID-19 got into the country via a balloon sent from South Korea that was infected with COVID-19.
RIPLEY (voice-over): Bizarre theories aside, American tour guide Justin Martell says COVID in paranoia is still everywhere. And yet, despite five years of near total isolation, North Koreans aren't entirely in the dark.
MARTELL: So, they're aware that Donald Trump is now the president once again, and they are aware of the fact that talks broke down last time during the first Trump presidency. So, when I asked the question, would you like Kim Jong un and Donald Trump to meet again, the response I got was, if Kim Jong un wants to do it, then of course we support it.
RIPLEY (voice-over): He says traveling to the secret state is not for everyone. Sightseeing feels more like a school field trip. Itineraries are tightly controlled. Unauthorized photos are forbidden. But any glimpse of the hermetically sealed nation is social media gold.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am in North Korea.
RIPLEY (voice-over): Which may explain why so many social media influencers are snatching up seats. Ever since the death of American college student Otto Warmbier in 2017, the U.S. State Department has banned American tourists from visiting North Korea. But that's not stopping some from trying.
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WENDY ARBEIT, U.S. EXTREME TRAVELER: I do have a U.S. passport, and I also have a German passport. So, that was my ticket in.
RIPLEY (voice-over): American Wendy Arbeit calls herself an extreme traveler. North Korea is her 195th country.
RIPLEY: So, how does North Korea stack up?
ARBEIT: It was definitely one of the more unusual places to go. You know, I have to be honest, I was surprised how good the food was. They were very lavish in the food that they gave us. There was a flaming snail that was brought to me and I was like, I don't know what to do with this, but it's cool.
RIPLEY (voice-over): The United Nations says nearly half of North Korea's population is undernourished. For them, flaming snail is almost certainly not on the menu. But for Western influencers, a country sealed off from the world is the ultimate feast for content.
Will Ripley, CNN, Taipei.
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SCIUTTO: Sports coming up. Liverpool continue to dominate the title race while Tottenham struggle to assert themselves this season. All the highlights of Wednesday's big matches in the Premier League, that's coming up.
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SCIUTTO: Wednesday night was a big night for the English Premier League. All the heavy hitters in action. Liverpool have been crushing the competition this season. The Reds already had an 11-point lead before kicking off against Newcastle. They now have widened the gap. At this rate, the title race could be over before we know it. So, let's go to Don Riddell. I don't want to say so too early, but I mean, is this title race pretty much locked up?
DON RIDDELL, CNN WORLD SPORT: I mean, it kind of feels that way. I mean, February is very, very early. The season runs all the way through until May, but it's really, really hard to see how Liverpool are going to lose it from this position.
They, as you say, Jim, have been dominating the title race this season. They kicked off with a huge 11-point lead before this game started. And after just 11 minutes, as it happened, they were ahead through Dominik Szoboszlai. Alexis Mac Allister made it 2-nil in the second half. And it does seem as though this title race is kind of done.
That's because elsewhere, on Wednesday, their closest title rivals, Arsenal, dropped a couple of points, meaning that Liverpool's lead at the top is now 13. Only one team has ever blown a lead that big, that was Manchester United all the way back in the late '90s.
So, here's the table. Here we go. Liverpool, as we say, now 13 points clear at the top. Arsenal are still in second place after their goalless draw with third placed Nottingham Forest. Manchester City are starting to climb back into the fray. They are now just one point behind Forest.
SCIUTTO: Listen, you know that first goal, by the way, from Liverpool there, almost looked too easy. So, tell us about Man City, because they also had a good day.
RIDDELL: Yes, and they've had a difficult season. I mean, they've had it all their own way for so many years. It's been difficult of course, the most important thing for them now is that they can at least be playing in the Champions League next season. And there's definitely inching in that direction. A 1-nil win away at Spurs at least keeps them in the top four and the hunt for Champions League.
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City's goal machine Erling Haaland made the difference, scoring the winner in the 12th minute. And with that, by the way, Haaland is now only the second player ever to score more than 20 goals in each of his first three premier league seasons. Ruud van Nistelroo was the other.
As I say man city in the top four if they keep going and if the teams ahead of them keep slipping up, it's not impossible to think City could end up in second by the end of the season. But I don't think anybody's catching Liverpool.
SCIUTTO: Yes, that's not bad company for Haaland. Don Riddell, thanks so much.
RIDDELL: Yes. All right.
SCIUTTO: Thanks so much to all of you for joining us tonight. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. Please do Stay with CNN.
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