Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Actor Gene Hackman Found Dead Alongside Wife in New Mexico Home; Trump, U.K. Prime Minister Starmer at Odds Over Ukraine Security Ahead of Talks; Trump Says Punishing Tariffs on Canadian and Mexican Goods to Take Effect Tuesday. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired February 27, 2025 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:00]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: A good Thursday morning. You are live in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Erica Hill joining you from New York. Pamela Brown is on assignment.

We begin this hour with the shocking death of actor Gene Hackman and his wife, Betsy Arakawa. Police say that both were found dead in their New Mexico home on Wednesday. Deputies responded to a welfare check where they found their bodies as well as their deceased dog. There is no word yet on a cause of death. Investigators say they do not suspect foul play.

Here now to discuss, CNN Entertainment Correspondent Elizabeth Wagmeister and Entertainment Journalist Michael Musto. It's nice to see both of you this morning.

So, Elizabeth, first of all, to you, this came as a shock I know to so many people. What more do we know about the investigation at this point?

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Erica. So, right now, there really are more questions than answers. This is obviously such a sad passing of a Hollywood legend but also the manner in which he died is so bizarre at this point. As you said, Gene Hackman and his wife, as well as their dog, all found deceased in their home in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Their bodies were found yesterday, we are told, by local police from Santa Fe.

Now, they were responding to a wellness check. We have inquired what sparked that wellness check, why they were called to that home. We have not heard back yet. But police have said that there is no suspected foul play, but they have not given a cause of death yet.

Now, Gene Hackman, again, one of the greatest stars on screen, he just turned 95 last month, so a long, incredible life and illustrious career. The tributes are starting to already pour out, Erica. But, again, so many people shocked just in the manner of which he was found.

Now, we actually found a clip back from 1985 when Gene Hackman sat down with CNN. He was talking about his career. He actually said that he didn't like to watch himself on screen, but he also spoke about getting into some different type of roles. Let's take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You started and of course have won a lot of acclaim for comedy roles. Would you like to do some more of that?

GENE HACKMAN, ACTOR: Yes, I would. I it's just peculiar that all the things I did on Broadway in New York in the older days were all light comedies. It's almost like situation comedies you'd see on television now. And after, you know, a couple of films that were successful with the Fringe Connection and that kind of thing, and people said, oh, this guy handles a gun pretty well. Let's keep him doing that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WAGMEISTER: You know, you hear so many actors talking about being typecast, but Gene Hackman really could do it all. He could play any role.

And I love that he was talking about his comedic roles there, because I have to tell you, Erica, One of my favorite Gene Hackman films is actually not one of his highly acclaimed films. It was called Heartbreakers and it came out in 2001. It was a comedy with Sigourney Weaver and Jennifer Love Hewitt. And that was one of his final films. He had a series of films in 2001 but he did retire from Hollywood in 2004. He stepped away from the limelight and he moved to New Mexico. And since then, he has lived a relatively private life.

Now, final point, I do want to point out that his death comes just three days before the Oscars. And, of course, Gene Hackman won two Oscars, has been nominated for five. And, certainly, you know that producers are scrambling to ensure that they have a beautiful tribute prepped for him during that in memoriam this Sunday.

HILL: Absolutely. Elizabeth, I appreciate it.

Michael, when we look at Gene Hackman, right, he really did in many ways bring this sort of every man actor to the screen.

MICHAEL MUSTO, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST, VILLAGE VOICE: He did. And he brought his own stage presence and star quality to that. So, he was more than an everyman. He was Gene Hackman up there and the range that he spoke about from comedy to drama was extraordinary. Because as far as comedy, let's not forget he was the sightless man in Mel Brooks' young Frankenstein. He was in the birdcage as the right wing senator who ends up in full drag. He could be truly hilarious.

But he's best known for the dramatic work, like his Oscar-winning turn as Popeye Doyle in French Connection, where it's a kind of documentary style piece about the quest for, you know, international drug smuggling and to bust that whole thing. The famous car chase of the car against the elevated train in my own neighborhood of Bensonhurst, Brooklyn, is breathtaking. And Gene Hackman was a big part of that whole movie's success. HILL: Michael, as someone who's -- you've covered entertainment for so long and you have such a deep connection, right, not just to this beat, but to so many people, right, who are part of it. I'm just curious your initial reaction when you heard the news. I mean, I was stunned. I also couldn't believe that he was 95. But it really just gave me pause for a moment.

MUSTO: I was horrified because I really treasure him as a movie icon. He's somebody who didn't really care that much about celebrity and being fabulous and famous. He cared about the work. And he could do any kind of movie. He went from French Connection to Superman, playing the ultimate villain, Lex Luthor. He was an extraordinary actor. And then the way he, the wife, and the dog were found dead was extremely macabre. If it was some kind of suicide pact, which is what it sounds like to me, though I hate to speculate, but I don't think it was a three-way suicide pact, I doubt the dog had much say in the whole thing. But, in any case, it's a very creepy thing of the type that would end up in a book like Hollywood Babylon where they tell you the dark side of Hollywood.

Gene did retire --

HILL: I do, Michael. I do need to clarify. We don't -- we at CNN don't have any of those details. We haven't, you know, all we know at this point is that foul play is not suspected. We don't know the ultimate cause of death, so I just want to be careful not to speculate.

I would like to get your take --

MUSTO: Yes, we'll do that.

HILL: I'd love to get your take on, you know, as Elizabeth's noting, he really stepped away from Hollywood in 2004. He had also sat down with Larry King in 2004, and part of that interview really stood out. I want to play part of it for you now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Do you sometimes see a finished product and say, I don't like me?

HACKMAN: I don't because I try not to watch it.

KING: You don't watch the film?

HACKMAN: I try not to.

KING: You don't watch (INAUDIBLE)?

HACKMAN: No, never.

It just makes me very nervous, very nervous.

KING: To sit in a movie theater and see yourself?

HACKMAN: Yes. I'm always afraid somebody's going to sit in front of me and say, are you kidding? Let's get out of here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: I would imagine he's probably not alone in that feeling. It seems that actors fall into one of two categories. They either watch it and nitpick everything or they don't want to see it for that same reason.

MUSTO: That's a true artist you heard there, because that's somebody who was afraid and vulnerable to have his work picked apart like that. He was serious about the work, like I said, and he wasn't so much into the whole process of dissecting the work. And, of course, he did have health problems when he retired, but also he felt it was drying up, in a way, his career. The offers weren't what they were. And he had such an extraordinary body of work at that point. He thought it was best to kind of remove himself from the business. And I admired that as well, someone who knows maybe when it's time to move on.

HILL: Yes. You know, it's an important note and something we don't always see a lot of. The fact that the Academy Awards are this Sunday, how do you expect he will be not only remembered, but honored at the awards ceremony?

MUSTO: I would imagine -- yes. I would imagine when they do the in memoriam segment. Dame Maggie Smith was probably going to be the finale. She was incredible as well, but I have a feeling it's going to now end with Gene Hackman and it will be more than just a few second tribute. And I also think a lot of people are going to be mentioning him in their speeches, because if you don't, you're going to seem kind of out of it, you know, just like people are going to mention the fires and other serious things. The loss of Gene Hackman is a tremendous loss for the movie industry, but he'll always be there for us. And so any movie that he's in, I can watch and really get something out of.

HILL: Well, you have several to choose from, luckily. Michael, always a pleasure.

MUSTO: He was embodied (INAUDIBLE). Take care.

HILL: Thanks so much.

Well, happening today, a high-stakes Oval Office meeting between President Trump and British Prime Minister Keir Starmer. This is really a moment where the true strength of that special relationship between the two nations is going to be on display for the world to see, of course. As you know, President Trump wants a lucrative rare earth mineral deal with Ukraine but he's remained noncommittal when it comes to security guarantees, which we know are incredibly important for Ukraine.

He's also been highly critical of Europe's role in funding the war in support of Ukraine and Europe's role in terms of those security guarantees. Starmer, for his part, hoping to redirect some of the president's focus and energy toward an outcome that could favor the west, but also ensure long-term peace and security for Ukraine. The meeting, of course, also sets the table for tomorrow when Trump will host President Zelenskyy at the White House.

Joining me now to discuss Kurt Volker, former U.S. ambassador to NATO and former U.S. special representative for Ukraine negotiations in the first Trump administration. It's good to have you with me this morning.

So, first of all, in terms of Keir Starmer today, what can he do, what should he do, what does he need to do to set the table in many ways for ultimately what one would hope would be a positive negotiation tomorrow between Presidents Trump and Zelenskyy?

KURT VOLKER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: Right. Well, I think the first thing that's going to be on his mind is the U.S.-U.K. relationship itself and making sure that the U.S. and U.K. are in full alignment on a range of issues. He is concerned about tariffs. He's concerned about tariffs on Europe. So, he wants to make sure that the U.S.-U.K. relationship is solid. Within that, he wants to come forward with proposals for what Europe can do to help assure Ukraine's security going forward.

I think everyone is looking at the prospect of a ceasefire that President Trump is trying to push through. But if that does happen, you're going to need to prevent Putin from rearming and attacking again. And this is where I think President Trump is looking to Europe to take the lead. And it's on Starmer and earlier this week President Macron really to try to put that package together.

HILL: And that was certainly a lot of what we heard, right, in the multiple times that we heard from President Macron and President Trump earlier this week, talking about that security guarantee in terms of peacekeeping forces, European peacekeeping forces. President Trump has been very clear where he stands on that, but there's still a bit of a gap. How much do you imagine that will, in fact, be part of the conversation, especially behind closed doors, between him and Keir Starmer?

VOLKER: Yes. Well, definitely, it will be because I think while the Europeans are going to be prepared to put forces on the ground, maybe help with their defense, do a variety of things to help assure Ukraine's future security. They're also going to want to have U.S. backup. If something goes terribly wrong, if Russia attacks the European forces, they want to know that the U.S. is going to be there and ready to help out. And this is something where Trump, I think, is probably prepared to say yes in a standoffish backup role, but he wants to know what the Europeans are putting on the table first.

HILL: I only have time for a quick yes or no. You say that the president is referred to say yes in a standoffish way. Is that something that he would say yes to in terms of putting in a signed agreement, do you think?

VOLKER: No. I think it's going to be an oral agreement. I think he's looking for a ceasefire and then he's looking for an agreement with Russia on ending the war. That, I think, is unlikely, but then I think with the European forces, he's looking for them to take the lead and we will commit to that. We will have backup if needed.

HILL: Kurt Volker, I appreciate your insight. Thank you.

VOLKER: Thank you.

HILL: Just ahead here in the CNN newsroom, as Republican lawmakers in Congress move forward with a new plan for the budget, President Trump is vowing to increase tariffs on Canada and Mexico, a threat that could lead to higher prices on the things you buy every day. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:15:00]

HILL: Breaking news, President Trump says new tariffs on Mexico and China will go into effect on Tuesday. He is also threatening additional tariffs on Chinese imports.

CNN's Matt Egan joining us now with more. So, in terms of these tariffs for Tuesday and also these new threats from the president, Matt, what more do we know and what's the practical implication for everyday Americans?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Erica, the president is signaling it is full steam ahead on tariffs, that's despite these growing concerns about a possible slowdown in the economy and how these import taxes would lift prices for consumers. So, the president came out and said in this Truth Social post this morning that, yes, he's going to impose on Tuesday 25 percent tariffs on Mexico and on Canada and double the tariffs on China to 20 percent.

Now, keep in mind, these are three of the biggest trading partners in the United States. So, this is a very significant threat here from the president. And there's been a lot of confusion just in the last 24 hours about where things stand on tariffs because, initially, during the cabinet meeting yesterday, the president seemed to suggest that maybe tariffs would get held until April. Now, he's signaling that's not the case, that this is going to happen as soon as Tuesday.

And there's been a lot of confusion here for investors, for business owners, right? They're just trying to make sense of it all because it seems like every day, almost, there's a new tariff that is floated. There's another one that's set in motion. Sometimes they get dialed up. They get dialed back. They get canceled at the last moment. It's just chaos for people to try to navigate now for consumers.

Of course, the big concern is what does this do to prices, because, again, these are import taxes. They're paid by U.S. firms and those U.S. firms often pass along the costs to consumers. And, remember, we get a lot of food from Mexico, including tomatoes and avocado. We import lumber and other materials from Canada. From both of those countries, there's a lot of autos and auto parts that come into the United States. There's estimates that the cost of a typical car could go up by thousands of dollars because of these tariffs. And, look, this is starting to weigh on the minds of consumers. We learned earlier this week that consumer confidence plunged in February by the most in 3.5 years. The conference board, which put out that survey, they blamed -- one of the issues here is tariffs. And consumers are bracing for higher prices. They're now anticipating a 6 percent increase in prices over the next 12 months. That's a big acceleration from January. The conference board said one factor here is egg prices, and that's largely due to the bird flu. But the other, of course, is tariffs.

And just one last point here, Erica, we've got to remember that these tariffs, they don't kick in until they do. And we know the president likes to use tariffs as a negotiating tool, right, a way to get leverage over other countries.

[10:20:01]

And so we need to watch closely to see whether or not these tariffs actually take effect or if they get pulled back at the last moment. Erica?

HILL: Yes, it'll be interesting to see. I have to say also, fascinating, Matt, I got a flyer from a local car dealership in the mail last week touting its pre-tariff inventory. So, interesting to see how businesses are already picking up on that.

I appreciate it, Matt. Thank you.

EGAN: Thanks, Erica.

HILL: After passing competing budget plans, House and Senate Republicans now face the challenge, of course, of getting President Trump's agenda across the finish line and the question of whether they pursue one big bill or break it up.

CNN's Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill. Manu, how are those negotiations going this morning?

MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're just starting, Erica. In fact, this is going to be a complicated and perhaps messy negotiation. Remember, there are lots of steps here in this process. The House and the Senate have passed separate budget resolutions. Those are blueprints that lay out the parameters of what they want to do legislatively. Then they have to reconcile that and to get to one budget blueprint. And then after they agree on that, it's got to pass both chambers and then they have to actually draft the legislative text.

So, we're months away from getting to that, but this initial step of sorting out the differences is going to be incredibly complicated because the House is pushing a much more expansive plan. They want a sweeping overhaul of the tax code, a two-year increase in the national debt limit, hundreds of billions of dollars in spending on issues about national defense, border security and the like, and about $1.5 trillion in spending cuts, whereas the Senate plan doesn't deal with those spending cuts, doesn't deal with the debt limit, doesn't deal with overhauling the tax code, but deals with the border security, defense measures, as well as energy production.

Now, that is the key question. How will the two sides reconcile it? And talking to members, Republicans on the House side are warning the senators not to make too many changes to their plan, while Senate Republicans are saying there need to be ample changes for them to support the House GOP plan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: They're not going to just adopt the House budge plan.

REP. RALPH NORMAN (R-OK): Whether we'll be at a logger jam, that's where Trump, President Trump, will come in.

RAJU: There a lot of them have concerns about the spending cuts that are in there.

REP. CHIP ROY (R-TX): Well, if they get rid of them, then the bill's going to be dead on arrival, at least on my watch over here.

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): I'm not going to vote for Medicaid cuts, but anything that slashes into benefits for people who are working, I'm not going to be for it. I think that's probably true of a lot of my colleagues, but, ultimately, I can only speak for myself.

RAJU: But did the House plan go too far? Did the House plan go too far?

HAWLEY: Well, it's just a framework. But, you know, it'll need to be changed.

REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): It adds $20 trillion to the debt over the next ten years. So, that's their estimation under rosy assumption. It's probably going to double the debt in the next ten years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And that last comment came from the one Republican who voted against this budget plan, that's Thomas Massie, who is pushing back against the notion of President Trump and others that say that this could lead to -- ultimately lead to a balanced budget. So, you can see the competing views there, but they don't have to ultimately get on the same page.

And they're employing this process too, Erica, because they want to try to pass this along straight party lines in the United States Senate. And the budget process, they can avoid a Republican -- Democratic-led filibuster by doing that, which is why this complex process needs to be sorted out among the narrowest of majorities in order to pass the sweeping agenda, a long way to go as they have a lot of major issues to iron out in the coming weeks.

HILL: Yes, certainly. Manu, appreciate it. Thank you.

Also joining me, Republican Congressman Dan Meuser of Pennsylvania, who's also on the Financial Services Committee and a member of the House DOGE Caucus. Sir, good to have you with us this morning.

I know you have heard the cuts. I've seen you responding to some of them on Twitter concerns about steep cuts to Medicaid, other entitlement programs. Speaker Johnson spoke with CNN last night. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): The president said over and over and over we're not going to touch Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid. We've made the same commitment. Now, that said, what we are going to do is go into those programs and carve out the fraud, waste and abuse and find efficiency.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Sir, can you confirm that for the millions of Americans who do rely on these programs, they will see no change to their benefits?

REP. DAN MEUSER (R-PA): Yes, they will see no change to their benefits. In fact, by saving Medicaid by rooting out the waste, abuse, and fraud, which you've heard, but also those who are ineligible, we will have more allocation to those who are truly in need of Medicaid. And who knows, maybe we could even increase the Medicaid fund so as hospitals aren't losing money, as they do, on their Medicaid beneficiaries.

Look, this is being done. President said, and President Trump keeps his word when he says, read my lips. I stood on the House floor yesterday and I said to my Democrat colleagues, I said he, from the not so cheap seats, there will be no cuts to Medicaid or Medicare, but we will root out waste, abuse and fraud and those who are ineligible.

I will just add this, Erica, I have a bill on overpayment and recovery, where we show that there's as much as $50 billion in Medicaid and $50 billion in Medicare that is being overpaid and sent -- going out to those who are not eligible on an annual basis.

[10:25:02]

HILL: So, I'm not sure, but you may be referring to those 20 -- the 2024 GAO report, which found there was about $100 billion in improper payments in 2023, almost evenly split between the two. It's important to note that the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services noting there that not all those improper payments are fraud and abuse.

That being said, you have $880 billion that needs to be cut. Even if that a hundred billion was all fraud and abuse, you're still left with a very large number to cut. Where else are you finding that? What is on the table?

MEUSER: Erica, it's everywhere. Looking at DOGE, what they've done, the $55 billion. There's all that money that was going for charging stations. There was E.V.s, E.V. subsidies. There's within -- there's energy mandate within energy and commerce. There's -- HILL: So, just to drill down on some of them though, some of the larger numbers, I know you're throwing some out there, for example, CHIP, The New York Times estimates that getting rid of chip would save $200 billion dollars. Is that on the table?

MEUSER: Not necessarily. But I will tell you, that's excessive, right? I mean, that bill should have been -- I worked on that bill. I thought we would be in very good shape at $50, $60 billion. Next thing you know, it's at $154 billion, just what they did with T&I last term as well. I was all -- I helped get it to $950 billion. Next thing you know, it's at $1.4 trillion.

Look, Erica, the bottom line is we have grown our government from $4.5 trillion dollars in spending to $6.9, $1.8 trillion in debt last year, and this year's going to be $2 trillion dollars. And the taxes -- we're not having any tax reductions. We're just continuing the tax levels that have existed. And they're so important. That's what drives the economy. That's what increases wages. That's what makes companies invest in themselves, the bonus depreciation and the small business. We have 34 million small businesses out there will 25 percent tax increase, a significant tax increase if we don't pass the Jobs Act and the tax cut from the Trump administration.

HILL: The debt indexes are a major concern for so many Americans, for so many lawmakers, including yourself. The fact that the debt does stand at $36.5 trillion and growing, the CBO actually estimates that extending those tax cuts is going to add to that. It's actually going to add $4.6 trillion to the deficit through 2035. So, if you are serious about cutting into that debt, why not let those tax cuts expire?

MEUSER: Because I just stated, by doing that, you will cost jobs, you will diminish our economy, you will weaken our economy, we will not be competitive on the world stage. And I'll add something about the CBO. They work in static models. They don't take into consideration the old, you know, familiar but -- and operable Laffer curve, okay? Very often, the lower the tax levels, you create more taxpayers.

And that's the plan and that worked last time where the tax reductions actually got to neutral and then we had revenues that we'd never seen before towards the end of the Trump administration, I mean, like 8 percent, 9 percent growth. I'm the former revenue secretary for the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Those are huge gains. And that actually will occur particularly if we have a balanced global agreements, which the president will get with his reciprocal plan on tariffs. The whole world will become our customer, and we will be the manufacturing giant that we should be.

HILL: As you noted, you believe keeping these tax cuts in place will lead to more spending. There are concerns, though, about spending. As we just heard from my colleague, Matt Egan there, concerns on consumers as prices continue to rise. The president this morning saying these 25 percent tariffs for Mexico and Canada will go into effect on Tuesday, now saying he's going to double the tariffs on China. These do push up the cost of the goods that are bought every day. Are you concerned at all about the impact of those tariffs? MEUSER: Well, sure, I'm watching it, as is the White House, and they're looking at getting it right. So, as it's a reciprocal situation, if those countries, Canada, Mexico, China, want to reduce their tariffs, as the president said, we will in kind. But the thing about tariffs, you can be quite nimble about it. As you've seen, the president has postponed them. He's giving fair warning. He's trying to be very deliberate about it. But at the same time, following the America First agenda, where in those industries that are critical, they will experience incentive to grow here in the U.S. as opposed to growing in China and elsewhere.

We have an unfair trade situation that exists today. We do want free trade, but it's got to be fair and reciprocal, and, frankly, that's the direction we're going.

[10:30:01]

And we didn't see inflation occur under the past Trump administration, even though these tariffs were initiated.