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FDA Cancels Flu Vaccine Meeting; Supreme Court Pauses Order to Unfreeze Foreign Aid; Gene Hackman Found Dead in Home. Aired 11:30a- 12:00p ET

Aired February 27, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:26]

ERICA HILL CNN HOST: Breaking news, we are learning that a gas company in New Mexico is now assisting in the investigation into the deaths of Gene Hackman and his wife, Betsy. Police say that they were found dead on Wednesday in their home following a request for a welfare check. Their dog was also found dead in the home.

There's no word yet on the cause of their deaths. The Santa Fe Sheriff's Office, however, has said they do not believe foul play was involved here.

CNN entertainment correspondent Elizabeth Wagmeister joining us now with more.

There's certainly a lot of questions. Important, again, that they say they do not believe foul play did play a role here, but the fact that the gas company is now involved, Elizabeth, what more do we know?

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that is a new development that we are learning just moments ago.

Now, we do not want to speculate here, but the fact that a gas company is assisting with this investigation could indicate that they are looking into the possibility of carbon monoxide poisoning. But, again, we do not know the cause of death.

The police have not released any information pertaining to that. This is just an investigation at this point. The only thing that we do know from the police is that, this morning, they did tell us at CNN that there is no foul play suspected.

Now, as you said, Erica, many more questions than answers at this point. It's a very bizarre situation, a sad, tragic ending for such a legend, even though he died at 95 years old and lived such a long, great life, and, of course, had an illustrious career.

So, Erica, let's take a moment at that Hollywood career.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Gene Hackman was the blue-collar common man on screen. It was no act.

GENE HACKMAN, ACTOR: You know, I did a lot of things. I sold shoes, I drove truck, I drove a cab. I jerked sodas.

WAGMEISTER: He grew up loving movies starring Jimmy Cagney and Edward G. Robinson.

HACKMAN: My mother and I were at a film once, and she said: "I want to see you do that someday." And that was all it was needed.

WAGMEISTER: At the Pasadena Playhouse, the aspiring actor met another young actor, Dustin Hoffman. The two were voted least likely to succeed.

HACKMAN: Take a good look, pop. I'm Buck Barrow.

WAGMEISTER: That changed when he was cast in "Bonnie and Clyde." Hackman was nominated for an Oscar, the first of numerous antihero roles from the 1960s on.

The acclaim covered up a potential career disaster. He was fired from "The Graduate" starring his pal Hoffman after just two weeks as Mr. Robinson.

HACKMAN: I thought it was like the beginning of the end for me.

WAGMEISTER: Hackman pressed on, a ski coach in "Downhill Racer," an astronaut in "Marooned," and a second best supporting actor nomination for "I Never Sang For My Father."

There were tensions on set with father Melvyn Douglas, who had wanted another co-star. In real life, Hackman's own father left the family when he was 13.

HACKMAN: When you decide to do a role, you choose both the good and the bad that's happened to you, and you try to make that -- that come alive.

Popeye's here. Hands on your heads! Get off the bar and get on the wall!

WAGMEISTER: As fierce New York City police detective Popeye Doyle, a defiant Hackman burst through the screen in "The French Connection." He didn't like playing a bigot, beating up people.

HACKMAN: I wanted to be fired from the film the first couple of days because I was very uncomfortable.

WAGMEISTER: Also testing his nerves, driving in one of the most famous car chases in movie history.

HACKMAN: We would go right down the street without any crowd control. And it was really scary.

WAGMEISTER: The role he wanted out of won him an Oscar for best actor in 1972. The award ignited a monumental film biography, from "The Poseidon Adventure"...

HACKMAN: You need to stand aside and close the door to keep the air from coming in, or you can try to stop me.

WAGMEISTER: ... to "The Conversation."

HACKMAN: One surefire rule that I have learned in this business is that I don't know anything about human nature. I don't know anything about curiosity.

WAGMEISTER: It wasn't always deadly serious. In "Young Frankenstein"...

HACKMAN: What is your name? I didn't get that.

WAGMEISTER: And there was "Superman."

HACKMAN: Oh, yes, of course you've been there. I do forget you get around, don't you?

(LAUGHTER)

WAGMEISTER: Now a huge star, Hackman said he always liked the idea of Hollywood, but not the hoopla.

HACKMAN: Personality-wise, I don't fit in.

WAGMEISTER: Hackman said his favorite film was the offbeat "Scarecrow" with Al Pacino, which was not a commercial hit.

HACKMAN: I don't care what the scoreboard says. At the end of the game, in my book, we're going to be winners.

[11:35:03]

WAGMEISTER: He was the basketball coach in "Hoosiers," one of the best sports films ever made.

(CHEERING)

WAGMEISTER: Hackman was nominated for an Oscar again for "Mississippi Burning."

HACKMAN: Did you smile when the bulldozer ran over the black kid's body?

WAGMEISTER: He won best supporting actor for "Unforgiven."

HACKMAN: When he fires that, take out your pistols and shoot him down like the mangy scoundrel he is.

It kind of puts a bookend to my career for me. I'm sure I'll do other films, but I can kind of relax, as long as Dustin doesn't get another one.

Our country?

DUSTIN HOFFMAN, ACTOR: Yes.

HACKMAN: I didn't figure you for a patriot, Mr. Rohr.

WAGMEISTER: Hackman finally did get to work with his lifelong friend in "Runaway Jury."

HACKMAN: I've loved every minute of my career. There's been, you know, tough times, of course, but I like the process so much.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WAGMEISTER: Now, the Hollywood tributes are, of course, pouring in. He was one of the greats, everyone from Francis Ford Coppola to George Takei, Viola Davis, Antonio Banderas, and Nathan Lane, who says in a statement to CNN that he was his favorite actor and that he got to tell him that every day when they worked together on "The Birdcage" -- Erica.

HILL: Another excellent film.

Elizabeth, really appreciate it. Thank you.

Still to come here: the Supreme Court pausing an order for the Trump administration to pay $2 billion in foreign aid. We're going to break that down, as well as some other somewhat head-scratching legal moments.

That's ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:41:05]

HILL: Chief Justice John Roberts hitting the pause button on a lower court's decision that would have required the Trump administration to release $2 billion in foreign aid. That money was put on hold last month as Trump and Elon Musk tried to cut federal spending.

CNN's senior legal analyst Elie Honig joins us now.

So, Elie, when we look at this, on the surface, the headlines sort of feel like a win for President Trump, but you say that's not exactly what's happening here. Walk us through this decision.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Erica, the first and most important thing to know about this is, it's all about timing. This actually has nothing to do with the underlying legal dispute here.

Now, as you said, the Trump administration announced that it would freeze about $2 billion in foreign aid that Congress had allocated. Now, a group of foreign aid agencies challenged that. They went to the district court, the trial court judge, who said, Trump administration, you have to spend all this money that you have frozen by midnight last night.

Now, yesterday afternoon, this case arrived to the Supreme Court, and all the chief justice said is, hang on, we have only had this case for a couple hours. I want briefs from the parties, good idea when you're trying to decide a difficult issue, and I want those briefs by Friday, by tomorrow.

So, this is going to unfold very quickly, but it's hard to characterize this as a big win or a big loss for either side.

HILL: Right. It's just a pause, right? It is what it is. It's yet another pause in some ways.

As we look at this, though, I mean, a lot of this comes back to, when we look at who might ultimately win here, it's the questions of the conflict of Congress and balance of powers, and Congress has allotted this money. What do you expect that we're going to see in those briefs?

HONIG: Yes, this case is a great example of the fundamental conflict that's animating so many of these cases that we're seeing come down on a nearly hourly basis.

On the one hand, Congress is saying and the challengers are saying, Congress has allocated that money. Congress controls the purse strings under the Constitution. And so the executive branch has to spend that money.

On the other hand, the executive branch, Donald Trump, is saying, I'm the head of the executive branch, and if I want to not spend certain money, I have the ability to do that.

So, ultimately, as this case moves its way through the courts, it's really a question of who prevails in a conflict between, on the one hand, Congress, on the other hand, the executive branch? It's a classic showdown between the two branches. It's a balance of powers question. And that's why it's so important.

HILL: And it's not the only balance of powers question that we're seeing. So I was also struck by this yesterday when a DOJ attorney told a federal judge that the courts had no authority when it came to this case of a fired federal official, somebody who investigates whistle-blower complaint.

Also, I mean, we look at this as, really, it's testing the limits of presidential power yet again, Elie.

HONIG: Yes.

So that case involved whether or not or what circumstances the executive branch can fire executive branch attorneys. I think phrasing it to the courts as the courts have no power here is the wrong way to phrase it. And I think it actually overstates the argument.

Really, the argument the executive branch was making, and I think should have made, is, simply, courts, you have your role as courts. You will rule on this case. But our position is whether and how we can fire executive branch personnel within the executive branch, that's up to us in the executive branch and not to Congress to limit.

So, again, you're right, Erica. We're seeing that exact same collision of powers here. HILL: We're seeing a lot of questions, a lot of testing, right, of

the collision of powers, the balance of powers, also, again and again, these questions about whether the courts really matter to many people at this point.

There was a remarkable moment yesterday in Senate confirmation hearings when folks were asked about whether they felt bound by court decisions and a refusal to say yes, basically to follow the law.

Look, you and I have talked about a lot of things over the year. I just am curious about your reaction to those moments.

HONIG: This was a mystifying moment. I mean, you have John Sauer, a veteran experienced attorney who's about to become the solicitor general of the United States, the United States' lead advocate in the Supreme Court, asked the easiest question in human history, which is essentially, do you have to follow the courts?

[11:45:01]

And he came through with this nonresponsive, sort of hedgy answer. The answer is yes. The only correct legal, constitutional, ethical, responsible answer is yes. And I should add, what John Sauer said yesterday actually goes substantially beyond what Donald Trump himself has said.

Donald Trump was asked this question a couple weeks ago in the Oval Office, and Trump said, I always listen to the courts. Look, I will appeal, and then Trump proceeded to bash the courts, but he said, I will comply with the courts.

And Trump thus far has actually never defied the courts. So it's bizarre to me to see these nominees. I don't know what game they're playing here with suggesting they might not follow the courts. But that's a red line. John Sauer knows very well what the right answer is there.

HILL: Yes, it is, I mean, mystifying. It left me speechless, as you can tell, since I'm blabbering.

Elie, always appreciate it. Good to see you, my friend. Thank you.

HONIG: Thanks, Erica. All right.

HILL: Still to come here: a mysterious disease in Africa now responsible for the deaths of more than 50 people. What we know ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:50:51]

HILL: A Texas child, now the first measles death in this country in a decade. The child was unvaccinated. There are so far more than 100 confirmed measles cases right now, but officials are warning this could get worse. Dr. Jennifer Nuzzo is a professor of epidemiology and the director of

the Pandemic Center at the Brown University School of Health.

Doctor, it's good to have you with us this morning.

So, just for folks who are joining us, I think it's important to just lay out some of the specifics when it comes to measles for our viewers. So this is an airborne, highly contagious, right -- spreads when an infected person coughs or sneezes or through direct contact with infected droplets.

The MMR vaccine, the best protection that we have, measles had actually been eliminated in the U.S. 25 years ago. We now have the first death in more than a decade. What is your biggest concern as we look at this outbreak?

DR. JENNIFER NUZZO, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Yes, so I have a lot of concerns.

I mean, first of all, this death is a tragedy because it's completely preventable. This vaccine that we have is some of the best vaccines available. And the fact that we have lost a child because people have not been able to avail themselves of the protection that these vaccines offer is really just an unspeakable tragedy.

The other thing that I'm concerned about is that this outbreak seems to be growing. And it is really -- the number of cases that we have seen in Texas has doubled since last week, so really quite stunning.

It's also spreading to other states. And we're going to continue to see this popping up because we know that there are many communities throughout the United States that are just undervaccinated. And that's really where measles can -- really can spread quite explosively.

HILL: Do you concern about the -- are you concerned at all about the number of those who are unvaccinated growing in this country, based on what we have seen over the last couple of years?

NUZZO: Yes, absolutely. And that seems to be playing a role, in -- particularly in Texas.

The vaccination exemptions has increased in recent years. And that's unfortunately what we're seeing now, which is the impact of that in terms of a lot of cases, a lot of hospitalizations and, unfortunately, this recent death.

HILL: I'm also -- there are a couple of other headlines that I'd love to get your take on.

So, a meeting for the flu vaccine, right, so these were for flu vaccine experts, that meeting was actually canceled by the FDA without explanation, one of the attendees, though, telling CNN the meeting -- we know it's typically held in March, right, because there's a production window that you have to make the flu vaccine for the next year. The FDA say -- the FDA now says it's going to publicize its

recommendations in time for the vaccine to be made. The question is, there are the recommendations. There are the experts in the room. We are still in, at least here in the New York area, what feels like a very active flu season of 2025.

The fact that this meeting was canceled, what does that say to you?

NUZZO: Yes, so it's really puzzling.

I mean, we are in a very active flu season. In fact, it's the worst flu season the United States has seen in a decade. So that really speaks to why it is so important that we have the best available science to guide the production of next year's vaccines.

As you mentioned, that's a very fixed schedule. So it was a bit puzzling why the meeting was canceled. I don't know why it was canceled, but people who are involved have been sort of alarmed by that. And I think, at best, it just represents just another kind of part of the chaos that's been going on around our health agencies.

But, at worst, I think there's anxieties about how committed the administration is to making sure that Americans have access to the best possible tools to protect themselves from the recurring hazards of things like seasonal influenza.

HILL: Dr. Jennifer Nuzzo, really appreciate your expertise. Thank you.

NUZZO: Thanks for having me.

HILL: We will be right back. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:59:11]

HILL: Tropicana could soon be headed for bankruptcy, the company being squeezed out of the O.J. market due to orange shortages in areas prone to hurricanes or droughts, as well as changes in consumer trends, as many people cut back on sugar. That's also having an impact.

The company's owners recently gave Tropicana a $30 million emergency loan. Pepsico, which still owns a minority stake, says it wrote down the value of its investment by some $135 million last quarter.

OK, how about some good news to leave you with this hour? I think it's a great idea too. Please say hello to a new member of the CNN family, baby Olive (ph). There she is, stinking cute, seen here with her dad. Oh, there she is.

That picture before, our colleague Jordan Hirsh, her dad, mom (INAUDIBLE) and proud big brother Wolf (ph).

Jordan is the director of executive operations here at CNN. He's a beloved member of our family. And, lucky him, he often gets stuck sitting next to me at dinners. He's been very excited about Olive's arrival.