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CNN International: Trump and Starmer Meet at the White House; Trump and Starmer Hold High-Stakes Meeting; Trump to Host Zelenskyy Friday; Trump's Tariff Turmoil; How Trump's Policies Are Impacting Economy; Right-Wing Influencers Allowed to Return to U.S.; Gene Hackman Found Dead. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired February 27, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers, joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington, D.C.

And just ahead this hour, Donald Trump and the British prime minister, Keir Starmer, focus on Ukraine peace talks at the White House. As Starmer says, a deal must not reward the aggressor, that is, Russia.

Brothers Andrew and Tristan Tate arrive in the U.S. from Romania, where they face charges of rape and human trafficking.

And, legendary actor Gene Hackman and his wife, Betsy Arakawa, have been found dead at their home in New Mexico.

We begin with U.S.-U.K. relations on full display in Washington tonight with the British prime minister, Keir Starmer, visiting President Donald Trump at the White House, describing their relationship as the greatest alliance the world has ever seen. Mr. Starmer is hoping to win U.S. security guarantees for Ukraine as part of any peace deal with Russia. President Trump, meantime, expressed his trust in Vladimir Putin, not to violate any agreement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I think he'll keep his word. I think he's -- I've spoken to him, I've known him for a long time now, you know, I've known him -- we had to go through the Russian hoax together, that was not a good thing, it's not fair, that was a rigged deal, and had nothing to do with Russia. It was a rigged deal with inside the country. And they had to put up with that too. They put up with a lot. It wasn't just us. They had to put up with a phony story that was made up. I've known him for a long time now.

And I think he will -- I don't believe he's going to violate his word. I don't think he'll be back. When we make a deal, I think the deal's going to hold.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: There you have it. The U.S. president, once again, standing shoulder to shoulder, agreeing with President Putin over U.S. intelligence agencies when he was asked then about Russian interference in the 2016 election, his reply prompted shock, criticism, consternation from his own advisers at the time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: My people came to me, Dan Coats came to me and some others, they said they think it's Russia. I have President Putin. He just said it's not Russia. I will say this, I don't see any reason why it would be. I have great confidence in my intelligence people, but I will tell you that President Putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: CNN Politics Stephen Collinson joins me now. And it is notable, because in 2018, when Trump had that notorious Helsinki moment, agreeing with Vladimir Putin over U.S. intelligence agencies, about Russian interference in the 2016 election, that was a moment of bipartisan criticism. It was a major story. His own advisers told me they were shocked by his comments.

Now, he does it, I mean, in more glowing terms and it barely registers a blip. But this is officially, it seems, the policy of the U.S. government now.

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: And I think it's a flashing red alarm call here because both the French president, Emmanuel Macron, the British prime minister, Keir Starmer, came here this week. I think they both think they made some progress in advancing the idea that the Europeans, the Ukrainians need to be involved in peace talks, that there has to be a peace that's lasting.

But you look at that tape, and then you think to yourself, what happens when Trump gets in a room with Vladimir Putin? And history of the last 10 years and, indeed, most of Putin's time in power, a quarter of a century, suggests there's no reason to trust what Putin said.

I mean, remember going back to George W. Bush? You know, he looked in Putin's eyes and saw his soul, you know. History shows that there's no reason to trust that. So, that's why Macron and Starmer, especially today, made this argument that we have to win, the peace has to be just, and the U.S. has to be involved in solidifying that peace.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Listen, multiple administrations have tried that reset. You think of Clinton -- Hillary Clinton under Obama and the giant reset button and failed. Trump, though, I mean, you could argue the most consistent piece of his foreign policy right is a flattering of the Russian leader. So, tell me how Starmer got the balance today, because he did push back at times against Trump in the Oval Office, but he did also have this glowing letter, this invitation to visit the U.K.

[18:05:00]

Is that the balance that U.S. allies have to strike now so as not to be completely off the island as it were?

COLLINSON: And we've seen some very interesting statesmanship this week because the trend is for foreign leaders, they know they have to flatter Trump. Going back to Prime Minister Abe, who bought him a golden golf driver way back in his first term.

But both Starmer and Macron came with a little bit more steel, and the reason for that is they have their own domestic political constituency. They have to advance the interests of their country. This is an existential moment for the Western Alliance. Flattering Trump and hoping for the best isn't going to work.

So, you saw Starmer, for example, bring that letter, an invitation from King Charles for a state visit, which appeared to touch Trump. Macron had him over to France last year for the unveiling of Notre Dame, the rebuilt cathedral. But they both are trying to create some distance from Trump's positions and to try to convince the president that for you to look good, for you to get what you want, which is a peace deal, a Nobel Prize, you have to stand up to Putin. And after the day, that, as you say, that question is still very much in doubt.

SCIUTTO: Did they get anything from this? Did they move the president at least further away from open antagonism towards Ukraine and its leader?

COLLINSON: I think that reading between the lines of what the French said and what the British said, they think there is some reason to believe that if there's a peace deal, they send European troops into Ukraine, the U.S. will be there with air support, intelligence, satellite information to back them up, the backstop, as Starmer calls it, without which, they would be putting their troops in great danger.

The problem is, Trump hasn't said that publicly. The Russians are against any European troops in Ukraine after a potential peace deal. So, I think they've made minuscule progress, but we're just right at the beginning here.

SCIUTTO: And listen, to your point, when Trump gets in the room with Putin, how does he respond in that moment? Is he swayed to Putin's side? Stephen Collinson, thanks so much as always.

COLLINSON: Thanks.

SCIUTTO: For more, I'm joined now by Vince Cable. He's a former leader of the British Liberal Democratic Party. Also served in the cabinet as business secretary from 2010 to 2015. Sir, thanks so much for joining us this evening.

VINCE CABLE, FORMER LIBERAL DEMOCRATS LEADER AND FORMER BRITISH BUSINESS SECRETARY: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: So, let me ask you, given your experience in government, do you believe the U.K. prime minister was successful in his visit today, showing some strength, standing his ground at times, but other times, well, flattering Trump as he has proven, he likes to be flattered? CABLE: Well, it was humiliating in a way. I suppose one has to admire the fact that he's willing to accept this humiliation to achieve some kind of political result because Britain and the rest of Europe are now extremely alarmed that there are completely at opposite position from our traditional allies and we're having to prepare for the fact that the transatlantic alliance is over and that Europe is going to have to defend itself.

But there is this immediate issue of Ukraine and the British and French just coming to do everything they possibly can to persuade the Americans not to give up on Ukraine and to provide some form of security guarantees. I mean, it's embarrasses to me as a British person to see this kind of abasement, but the -- you know, if he could achieve anything, I guess we'll just have to accept that's the way it's necessary with this president.

SCIUTTO: To your point, it is not just Ukraine that this American president seems prepared to abandoned, that is the fear, certainly from Ukrainians I talked to but Europe itself. And I wonder, is that a fait accompli with this president? Has Trump communicated to not just Starmer, to Macron, to Europe as a whole, you're on your own, we will no longer defend you?

CABLE: That is a very clear message. I think the comments of the new German Chancellor Merz at the weekend showed that he understands that and that we've got to prepare for it. I think in Britain, there is this -- still this lingering idea that we have some kind of special relationship. I mean, the truth is that, you know, we have a special relationship with America. America doesn't have one with us.

And the British have got to recognize that we are now part of Europe. Our future is with France, Germany, and the smaller countries. And we're going to have to work with them and stand on our own feet. And I'm not sure that in Britain that message has got home.

[18:10:00]

SCIUTTO: There was a moment today in the Oval where the British prime minister fact checked Donald Trump in real-time, in this case, on the nature of U.K. assistance to Ukraine. I want to play that moment and get your thoughts on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We want to work with him and we will work with him. I think the president and I actually have had a very good relationship. It maybe got a little bit testy because we wanted to have a little bit of what the European nation said. You know, they get their money back by giving money. We don't get the money back. Biden made a deal. He put in $350 billion. And I thought it was a very unfair situation.

KEIR STARMER, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: We're not getting all of ours. I mean, quite a bit of ours was gifted, it was given, there were some lanes, but mainly, it was gifted actually.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SCIUTTO: There's a lot of talk and a lot of, I mean, gymnastics, you see world leaders trying to not get on Trump's wrong side. But there you saw a moment, and Macron did quite similar, where the British prime minister said, no, actually, Mr. President, that's not true. Trump does not like that. But do you believe that strength has been underestimated as an approach to Trump from leaders such as Starmer, that perhaps that's what he listens to?

CABLE: Well, you just have to be firm about issues of that kind. I mean, it is absolutely extraordinary that the other Western countries, particularly the Europeans, have put an enormous amount of resource into supporting Ukraine and will continue to do so. But the United States is demanding this repayment in the form of mineral wealth. I mean, it's a very mercenary approach.

And the idea that the British and French did this for material grounds is utterly perverse, and we have to argue back against it and not accept it as a matter of fact.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this. You say that the U.K., that Europe now must defend itself, cannot rely on the U.S., on the special relationship. Can Europe defend itself today? And if not today, how long will it take it to muster the military strength to do so?

CABLE: Well, it can't tomorrow because there is disorganization and lack of preparedness, but in the medium-term, this must be our objective. I mean, I think, first of all, we shouldn't overestimate the extent to which the Russians can somehow invade Western Europe. And we've seen over the last couple of years, they have extraordinary difficulty in just advancing from one village to another. So, the idea that they can launch some kind of blitzkrieg across Europe is a nonsense.

But unless there are very firm security guarantees, countries like Moldova, the Baltic States are very vulnerable to encroachment and there has to be a strong security presence by a United Europe. And the critical factor here is the British and French nuclear deterrent. We, first of all, have to establish how far the so-called independent British nuclear deterrent is independent. And we have to work with the French under some kind of arrangement to share this with Germany. And indeed, the rest of Europe, and that's going to be a big political decision.

But spending more on defense, I think we've all accepted that that's now going to happen, and there will be higher taxes in Britain and the rest of Europe to pay for it.

SCIUTTO: Will the U.K., will its allies, France, and perhaps even Germany, need to expand their nuclear arsenals to be a credible deterrent without the advantage of the U.S. nuclear umbrella?

CABLE: Well, it's I think it's not a question of expansion. There are substantial number of warheads to deter a first strike, should that ever happen. The issue is about credibility. The British Trident system in a submarine-based force is probably the best way of doing it. The question is that the deterrent should now be credible and that it covers Europe, not just Britain and France, and that's a big step, particularly when it comes to covering Germany, and that's going to require a much deeper commitment to the European project than the British have been willing to do in recent years.

SCIUTTO: Listen, I mean, we're staring a major disruption to the international order in the face as you described. Vince Cable, thanks so much for joining.

CABLE: Thank you very much.

SCIUTTO: Well, President Trump says he will be hosting Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky here in Washington on Friday. They are expected to discuss a deal allowing U.S. access to Ukraine's natural resources, just one part, a broader negotiations intended to end Russia's ongoing invasion.

[18:15:00]

Potentially, hand over billions of dollars' worth of rare earth minerals to the U.S. Have a listen to how President Trump described it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The minerals agreement will provide the basis for a more sustainable future relationship between the United States and Ukraine, and thus stimulate the long-term prosperity that will help the Ukrainians rebuild their country that's been demolished.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Demolished by Russia, we should note. Nick Paton Walsh is in Ukraine to gain access to a titanium mine, one of the critical minerals at the heart of these negotiations.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: We very much need rare earth. They have great rare earth.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A moonshot for Ukraine's survival. Talking peace suddenly means talking about places like here, this lunar landscape, a titanium mine, struggling under the Russian bombardment of Ukraine's power grid, sometimes with only three hours power a day.

DMYTRO HOLIK, DIRECTOR OF MINING PLANT, GROUP DF (through translator): Now, we don't' know our work will go on even tomorrow. Because ever day we see how Ukraine's energy system is being destroyed. Our company is now very unstable and this leads to a very high net cost of our products.

WALSH: Half a trillion dollars, that was the sum that President Trump initially thought Ukraine might be able to pay back to the United States, in his words. And here you're going to sense the challenge, really, because this place, yes, potential is certainly there, but they say they desperately need investment. These machines are so old. And yes, so, they say they would welcome American money.

WALSH (voice-over): The pressure to get money out of the ground is enormous. As are the questions as to whether the astronomical sums Trump thinks are here can match the money to be made under this sprawling sea of unknown potential.

TRUMP: Who knows what rare earth is worth, you know, but at least it's something and who knows what it's worth. Who knows if they even have it?

WALSH (voice-over): It was, at first, Ukraine's idea. President Zelenskyy selling their mineral wealth in November, perhaps too successfully as part of a victory plan for more aid. Showing reporters maps here.

They claim 7 percent global production of titanium. Lithium isn't mined yet, but they say they've 3 percent global reserves. They say they're in the top five of graphite reserves and have some actual rare earth metals. The initial framework deal doesn't specify what it covers, mentioning only relevant resource assets that will be further described in another agreement. Yet the White House has been specific about some resources.

MIKE WALTZ, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: There's a foundry that processes aluminum in Ukraine. It's been damaged. It's not at its current capacity. If that is restored, it would account for America's entire imports of aluminum for an entire year.

WALSH (voice-over): Waltz is probably referring to here, an aluminum plant in Zaporizhzhia. Mothballed when filmed here a decade ago, still struggling and hit by a missile during the war.

The U.S., perhaps a little too eager to take. Ukraine, with no choice but to give in a hugely complex deal that may get messier still when it runs into the cold, hard ground truth of where Ukraine is at today.

Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Irshansk, Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Question of course is, is this Ukraine's choice? Coming up, President Trump reverses course once again on trade. New tariffs on Mexico and Canada are now set to take effect next week, earlier than expected. We'll hear from a House Democrat, Brad Sherman, who fears that tariffs will hurt growth.

Plus, from the "French Connection" to "Bonnie and Clyde," "Superman" and "Reds," we'll look back at the just spectacular career of two-time Oscar winner Gene Hackman, one of my favorites as well. He's died at the age of 95.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:20:00]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back. Another rough day on Wall Street. U.S. stocks fell across the board. Tech stocks hit the hardest with the NASDAQ tumbling more than 2.5 percent. NVIDIA shares fell more than 8 percent after the A.I. tech giants' recent earnings failed to impress. That's a big job -- drop in a big part of the market.

Weak U.S. economic data is also hurting sentiment with first time jobless claims posting their largest rise in more than four months. President Trump's decision to begin imposing 25 percent tariffs now on Canada and Mexico next week. Also, not making the markets happy, Trump said as late as Wednesday he might delay those tariffs until April. The president also threatened additional 10 percent tariffs on China next week to double the rate already in place. No surprise, the CNN Business Fear and Greed Index remains in the extreme fear zone.

My next guest says the ongoing tariff uncertainties are disrupting the U.S. economy and already impacting private sector decision making. He also warned that the weakening of the CFPB, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, that on Thursday threw out a number of high-profile cases which were intended to protect Americans from fraud and abuse.

House Democrat Brad Sherman, senior member on both the House Financial Services Committee and House Foreign Affairs Committee, joins me now. Congressman, thanks so much for taking the time.

REP. BRAD SHERMAN (D-CA): Good to be with you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: You were not alone in saying that tariffs and other things happening right now would not be good for the economy. It seems that we're certainly seeing that in the markets perhaps in the job numbers here. Tell us how you see the tariffs impacting the American economy, but also just Americans, the American people in the coming weeks and months?

SHERMAN: Well, Trump says a lot of crazy things and doesn't do most of them and then does some of them. And so, it's very hard to know what's going to happen on March 4th or any other date. But it's one thing to use tariffs and the threat of terrorists to open up markets to our exports, to increase world trade on a fair basis.

It's another thing to slap a tariff on Canada of 25 percent for allegedly being a source of fentanyl, when virtually none of the fentanyl comes from Canada. It's also -- I confronted, president Trump when he was in my district about at least not putting on tariffs on building materials because we're going to have to rebuild the Pacific Palisades and Altadena. And he said he'd take it under advisement, and we can't get his people or him to comment on that beyond there.

So, these are not well thought out tariffs. I think the president still thinks that he's an entertainer trying to get ratings rather than running a serious government.

SCIUTTO: It seems that Republicans, or they certainly made progress, at least in the House, on their budget and tax plan. Of course, there's a lot of steps between now and then, but it seems that Republicans are counting on big tax cuts to make up for all of this in the end, to juice the economy further, even though that will add to the deficit based on what the CBO and others say. [18:25:00]

Does that happen in your view? Does that make up for cost of tariffs, et cetera?

SHERMAN: They want big tax cuts because they want big tax cuts. They've always, under all economic circumstances, wanted giant tax cuts for billionaires, multinational corporations, and hedge fund managers. They were able to get them in 2017, and they want to do more of it now and extend what they already did.

They sold it to themselves, in effect, by saying they were only doing it for five years, so it only costs so much. And now, they want to make it permanent. That's a huge increase to our national debt and will make it more difficult to do what we're going to have to do next decade, which is use general fund money, income tax money to make sure people get their Social Security benefits. You're not going to be able to do that if you cut the income tax on billionaires.

SCIUTTO: The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau basically dead -- I mean, dropped a number of cases today. And this strikes me as an example of something where I'm not convinced Democrats have gotten their messaging right, because it's been successfully caricatured as just big government, you know, getting into your lives. I mean, the intent, right, is to stop financial institutions from fraud and things that it strikes me folks can understand, right? You know, hidden fees, you know, predatory rates, et cetera, but now it's gone basically.

And I wonder, is this an example of, in your view, where Democrats have not properly sold this to the American public so they actually know what it does?

SHERMAN: Well, part of it is just competing for space in the public square with things that are the social issues. I mean, people want to talk about LGBTQ and everybody focuses on that when it has very little effect on the lives of the average American. You know, who's in which sports league, who's in which bathroom gets all the attention.

CFPB's number one issue was to prevent overdraft fees from being unfairly collected. And if they're going to collect them, at least fess up and tell us what the interest rate is. And banks are unwilling to do that because the interest rates in the tens of thousands of percent when you realize that a 35-cent overdraft can cost you a $35 fee.

So, if we can get people to focus on things, like, how much am I paying in overdraft fees? How much am I paying in credit card late fees? I think we'll have a much better message, even though it is literally not as sexy as discussions of gender and identification.

SCIUTTO: It's a good point. It affects far more people. Congressman Brad Sherman, as always, we appreciate you taking the time.

SHERMAN: Good to be with you.

SCIUTTO: Coming up, how Western foreign policies may have paved the way for Russia's aggression. An in-depth analysis from national security expert Alexander Vindman, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back to Newsroom. I'm Jim Sciutto and here are the international headlines we are watching today. An Israeli hospital says at least nine people were injured in the suspected car ramming attack in the central part of the country. Police say the suspect was a 53-year-old Palestinian man who was killed at the scene. Hospital officials tell CNN a 16-year-old girl and 76-year-old man both suffered head injuries.

Mexico is extraditing the notorious cartel leader Rafael Caro Quintero to the United States, that according to two law enforcement officials. The drug lord is accused of kidnapping and conspiring to murder a DEA agent in 1985. Officials say the extradition also includes several other cartel members.

In Japan, firefighters are struggling to contain a wildfire which has destroyed at least 84 homes and triggered an evacuation order. Seven helicopters are tackling the blaze in the northeastern part of the country.

Back now to one of our top stories today. The Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, is set to meet with President Trump here in Washington on Friday to sign a deal on natural resources, which so far does not appear to include any security guarantees from the U.S. for Ukraine.

The U.S. president says he's happy about the agreement, but the Ukrainian leader has described it as only a framework for now.

In his meeting with the British prime minister, Keir Starmer, Trump said he believes Russian President Vladimir Putin will keep his word once a peace deal is made, if one is made.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I've known him for a long time now and I think he will -- I don't believe he's going to violate his word. I don't think he'll be back. When we make a deal, I think the deal's going to hold.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: That is something that Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, former director for European Affairs at the U.S. National Security Agency under Trump, discusses in his new book, "The Folly of Realism: How the West Deceived Itself About Russia and Betrayed Ukraine." He argues that foreign policies of multiple administrations focused on national interests and short-term problem solving failed over many years to deter Moscow.

Alexander Vindman joins me now. Thanks so much for taking the time.

LT. COL. ALEXANDER VINDMAN (RET.), FORMER DIRECTOR OF EUROPREAN AFFAIRS, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL, U.S. ARMY (RET.) AND AUTHOR, "THE FOLLY OF REALISM": I'm glad to be on with you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: I do want to ask you just how you reacted today to see the U.S. president once again say not only does he trust Vladimir Putin, by the way, as you well know, Putin has violated a series of peace agreements with Ukraine, but also, again, to call Russia's interference in the 2016 election a hoax. What was your reaction?

VINDMAN: I think this is the modus operandi of -- the M. O. for Donald Trump when he's dealing with a large power, a great power, whether it's China or Russia, it's to flatter and to try to ingratiate. So, he's basically trying to -- he thinks that's a way to kind of curry favor, sweet talk Putin into compromising. Of course, that's not going to happen. Putin will bank everything that has been offered thus far and look to get more.

[18:35:00]

And then, at the same time, you know, the other side of that equation is those smaller countries like Ukraine, frankly, our neighbors in Mexico and Canada those could be kind of derided and defamed and things of that nature because they're not those large powers.

So, it's standard fair. It's a bad business. It's a shock to anybody that pays attention to how we interact with friends and allies and enemies, but that's, you know, not a surprise for Donald Trump.

SCIUTTO: All right. To your book, I wonder, for our audience, can you define how you see realism in foreign policy as it relates to Russia, and are you saying, in effect, it's the equivalent of accommodation, accommodating Russia?

VINDMAN: I think that's right. Actually, realism basically says that each country pursues its interests and its interests maximally. So, in that case, it compels a kind of transactional. Every single time you're looking at the deal in front of you, the bright shiny object, and you're looking to maximize your outcomes or minimize the risks. And when you have a pattern of doing that across six different administrations and the Russians are so effective at manipulating us, either by dangling something that we want, that they don't care to give us, or to saber rattle and threaten nukes every now and then, you always have these short-term outcomes that undermine your long-term objectives.

What is a long-term objective? You don't want Russia to graduate from mischief making to hybrid warfare, interfering elections to military aggression. But that short-term-ism breeds that. It emboldens Russia. So, this is the same exact thing that Donald Trump is doing in the -- you know, kind of the most exaggerated stage, what I call the poison Kool-Aid stage of realism, the cult of realism, where he's just maximally transactional, doesn't think about anything besides what's immediately in front of him, and that's a dangerous course of action, because that's, again, what Trump -- what Putin exploits from Trump.

SCIUTTO: To your point, multiple administrations of both parties have attempted this and attempted a reset from George W. Bush as I looked into his soul to the big reset button between Clinton and Lavrov under Obama to Trump, but Trump goes further than any of them in terms of calling Putin in effect a friend, right, and saying he's talking about doing a major trade deal with Putin and he's speaking Putin's own talking points about the Ukraine war.

Do you believe that Trump can learn from experience, or does he just have a blind spot for Russia?

VINDMAN: Thus far, no. It seems that, you know, he didn't learn the lessons of his own first administration, where really not much, he wasn't able to bring peace. Four years of war between Russia and Ukraine, he wasn't able to bring peace then through appeasement or any of this other kind of flatteries. And clearly, he doesn't even take lessons of his own experience, and now he's going -- leaning in even further to accommodate Putin.

And I just don't understand if his ultimate objective is to win peace for Ukraine, be the peacemaker, you know, earn that Nobel Peace Prize, why he's taking the worst approach possible. The most effective approach would be where Russia is already teetering, its economy is brittle, it cannot achieve its ends on the battlefield, it's taking the tiniest bit of territory from Ukraine, it's kind of slowing down, grinding down, yes, it's punishing Ukraine, but it cannot achieve its objectives, why you would go ahead and put pressure on Ukraine which is willing to bend over backwards and alleviate pressure on Russia that really could be pushed over the edge and compelled to negotiate?

So, it's the exact opposite of what, you know, my book, "The Folly of Realism: How the U.S. Deceived Itself About Russia and Betrayed Ukraine," that subtitle, frankly, unfortunately, couldn't be more accurate about the moment. And I wish that we would just ultimately learn our lesson. Understand that we can't be so transactional. I call for this idea of neo-idealism to give us a long-sighted view to focus on the things that really matter. It's not just about, you know, what we learned in the past, it's what we can do better in the future.

Through my 22 years in military service, serving in Moscow, serving in Ukraine, writing the strategy in the Pentagon and some interesting stories that illustrates we should be doing better, we should learn the lessons of the past.

SCIUTTO: The trouble is that this administration seems prepared not just to betray Ukraine, but to abandon Europe, leave Europe to its own devices here. It's -- we're talking about quite a massive change in the U.S. relationship with the world.

VINDMAN: Nothing highlights that more than this very important signal of the U.N. vote, just earlier this week, in which we sided with Russia and North Korea against our allies, against Ukraine, who we've been supporting for the past three years. It's such an abrupt about- face. It's shocking.

[18:40:00]

But the consequence of that is that, again, Putin knows that he could push further. He has no incentives to compromise. He is still seeking capitulation from Ukraine and our allies think we're no longer reliable, we're no longer going to be there for him. It really does escalate the prospects of something worse, some sort of crisis on the horizon.

Europeans will be there for Ukraine. That's now increasingly clear. They're increasing the amount they're spending. That's a good thing. They've been underspending on their own defense on security for Europe.

But the fact is that this is a break glass -- break everything type of situation that doesn't do anything to make Americans more secure, to enable our prosperity, and Trump will eventually realize that -- I think he'll eventually realize that he's not going to get his win, he's not going to be able to demonstrate to the American public that he's won, and he might eventually about-face, it might just take six months of really painful learning to get there.

SCIUTTO: We'll see. Alexander Vindman, the book, once again, is "The Folly of Realism: How the West Deceived Itself about Russia and Betrayed Ukraine." Thanks so much for joining us.

VINDMAN: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Coming up, the Tate brothers have now been allowed to travel back to the U.S. What the right-wing influencers are saying and how fellow conservatives are reacting, just after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: The right-wing influencers, Andrew and Tristan Tate, have arrived now in the U.S. after Romania allowed them to leave the country, despite the fact that they were charged there with rape and human trafficking, among other crimes. It follows reports that the U.S. pressured Romania to release the brothers.

Andrew Tate has a massive following online, despite being a self- proclaimed misogynist. He's also denied rape accusations from several British women.

Just hours ago, President Trump denied knowing anything about the case. This prompted the U.K. prime minister, Keir Starmer, to interject.

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TRUMP: I don't know nothing about that. I just know nothing about it. We'll check it out. We'll let you know.

STARMER: There's an English element here. So, obviously, it's important that justice is done and human trafficking is obviously, to my mind, a security risk. And so, I we'll catch up with the story in due course.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Human trafficking, despite the Tate brother's popularity among some on the American right, other conservatives have criticized them. Nada Bashir has this report.

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GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): No, Florida is not a place where you're welcome with that -- with those -- that type of conduct.

NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Landing in Fort Lauderdale on Thursday, self-proclaimed misogynist, internet celebrity, and vocal supporter of U.S. President Donald Trump, Andrew Tate and his brother, Tristan. Both now permitted to travel out of Romania after prosecutors lifted a year's long travel ban.

ANDREW TATE, ONLINE INFLUENCER: Listen, listen, listen. We live in a democratic society where it's innocent until proven guilty and I think my brother and I are largely misunderstood. I think it's extremely important that we stop allowing media spin, wrap up smears, lies, or carefully constructed narratives.

BASHIR (voice-over): Police arrested the Tate brothers in December 2022 and later charged them with offences including rape and human trafficking, allegations they deny.

TATE: They're trying to tell you X, the truth is Y.

BASHIR (voice-over): In recent years, Andrew Tate shot to internet fame, racking up billions of views on TikTok with videos centered on his views on male dominance, female submission and wealth, prompting concern from critics about the influence of the Tate brothers on teenage boys.

TATE: I don't think the world has ever been equal. I'm saying that the modern society we live in has been built by men.

BASHIR (voice-over): Most social media platforms suspended his accounts. In 2017, Twitter banned Tate for saying that women should bear responsibility for being sexually assaulted. His account was later reinstated after Elon Musk took over X.

TATE: Worth innocent until proven guilty in any of this.

BASHIR (voice-over): Legal proceedings in Romania are still ongoing, leading many to question why Romanian prosecutors have now chosen to lift the travel ban, and what connections there may be to the Trump administration.

TRUMP: The golden age of America begins right now.

TATE: I'm so excited for the next four years.

BASHIR (voice-over): Tate has long been a vocal supporter of the U.S. president, sharing this video on social media just last week. Earlier this month, the Financial Times reported, citing sources, that the Trump administration had put pressure on Romanian authorities to lift the travel restriction, first through a phone call, then through a meeting between Trump's special envoy, Richard Grenell, and Romania's foreign minister at the Munich Security Conference.

Romania's foreign minister has acknowledged that discussions took place. Though the foreign ministry claims there was no such pressure from the Trump administration. A lawyer representing some of the alleged victims of Andrew Tate has said there is clear evidence to support the allegations against him, calling the decision disgusting and accusing the U.S. government of, quote, "lobbying for their release."

allege they were raped and coercively controlled by Tate said Thursday they felt, quote, "re-traumatized."

Nada Bashir, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Coming up after the break, he was one of the best loved and versatile Hollywood actors of his generation. Tributes pouring in for two-time Oscar winner Gene Hackman, now dead at the age of 85. The roles that made him famous, coming up.

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SCIUTTO: Hollywood star Gene Hackman is to be honored at the Oscars this weekend. The two-time Oscar winner, who is 95 years old, was found dead at his home in New Mexico with his wife, his dog, also found dead. Authorities say foul play not suspected, but has not been ruled out.

The actor's career spanned five decades. Some of his best-known movies include, and it's too long a list, but "Superman" playing the villain Lex Luthor. The 1972 disaster movie, "The Poseidon Adventure," among an all-star cast. And "The Birdcage" where he played a Republican senator who ended up, as you can see there, in drag.

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GENE HACKMAN, ACTOR: No one will dance with me. It's this dress. I told them white would make me look fat.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about me? I'm just --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Now, the list is almost too long to go through now. Stephen Galloway, an Emmy award-winning writer and producer, dean of Chapman University's Dodge College of film and media arts, former executive editor at the Hollywood Reporter. Good to have you.

I mean, listen, it's hard to describe in a few minutes. I mean, you'd really have to go a few hours for the length and breadth of his career. Tell us what he would be most remembered for.

STEPHEN GALLOWAY, EMMY AWARD-WINNING WRITER AND PRODUCER, DEAN, CHAPMAN UNIVERSITY'S DODGE COLLEGE OF FILM AND MEDIA ARTS AND FORMER EXECUTIVE EDITOR, THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER: I mean, there are two things about him. One is his extraordinary range, comedy and drama, larger than life and ultra-naturalistic, which very few actors can do.

And the second is that he didn't really develop some of those tics and mannerisms that some of the great stars do, when they start seeing themselves and watching themselves. But within that, there's just an extraordinary body of film. You know, a star is only as good as the quality of the films. And I still think the French connection, which he made in the early '70s, was just a monumental film with -- if a film can be a masterpiece, his role as Popeye Doyle, the cop, was terrific, and he hated doing it.

He and William Friedkin, the director, brilliant director, fought. Hackman had trouble playing a guy whose ethics were difficult, who was racist, who treated innocent people terribly and freaking had to keep pushing him and pushing him and pushing him. So, Hackman hated the role, but it really made him one of the major actors. And within the acting community, he was really unrivaled in his reputation.

SCIUTTO: And you think too of movies like "Hoosiers," right? "Hoosiers" is just such a favorite, one of those inspirations -- still one of the best sports films ever made. I mean, his beginning was unusual too. Here's a guy who was four years in the Marines. I don't think he started acting until his late 20s, right? I mean, this was not your typical path to Hollywood movie stardom.

GALLOWAY: No. And there's a whole bunch of them. Dustin Hoffman, he, who were roommates at one point, who were kicked out of, you know, Pasadena Playhouse as the actors most certain to lose. Because you have to remember, actors like that never became stars then. The stars were great looking. They looked like Rock Hudson or Robert Redford or Paul Newman. And here were these guys who looked like us. And they were regular people.

And that became the wave of the '70s, which most people in Hollywood still regard it as the finest era of filmmaking. Movies that still stand up to an extraordinary level. What was different with Hoffman -- with Gene Hackman was the way he kept doing that. I mean, I remember him in "The Firm" as the villain with Tom Cruise. And he made it so real. It was really extraordinary.

SCIUTTO: Yes. So, as it happens, he passes away sadly right before Oscar weekend. He's of course a two-time Oscar winner. What do we expect to see this weekend in his honor?

GALLOWAY: Well, you're going to see him on the memorial list of the Academy Awards, which famously has neglected a few people at the last minute. But there's still time. They will add something. I don't think they'll do more than that. I bet one or two of the actors who win will refer to him because he represented the fact that you can be a star and still be a regular person and not make insane demands.

He was quite low key, modest person who chose to walk away. Nobody does that in Hollywood. You know, in his mid-seventies, that's it, I'm retired, I'm moving to San Francisco, bye everybody. SCIUTTO: That is one of the most unusual things, right, because a lot of folks in Hollywood have long goodbyes. So, how is Hollywood reacting now, especially, there are unanswered questions about the circumstances of his death?

GALLOWAY: Well, I think that's what everybody's talking about. Because he was in his mid-90s. People knew. He'd been in fragile health for a while. I'd interviewed him some time ago. And you could feel that this was not the vital guy.

[18:55:00]

We've all seen photos of him where he'd lost weight, looked very thin. But the mystery of this death is shocking and brutal and everybody knows what's, you know, what's going on. And the way the police have handled it has been strange. You know, first of all, there's something suspicious. Then there isn't. Yes, there is. So, I'm sure this will be cleared up. But it's an ugly way for somebody of this brilliance to go.

SCIUTTO: Of course. And his wife found dead, along with him, too. Stephen Galloway, thanks so much for joining. Remembering Gene Hackman dead at the age of 95.

Thanks so much to all of you for your company. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington, D.C. Please do stay with CNN.

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