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Connecticut Education Controversy; Firings of Federal Workers Continue; Police Investigate Death of Gene Hackman; Russia Set to Rebuild Spy Network in West?. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired February 28, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:33]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: As the lines of communication open up between President Trump and Vladimir Putin, some U.S. officials say Russia is eying it as an opportunity to rebuild its spy network in the West.

CNN's Natasha Bertrand is at the Pentagon.

Natasha, what more are you learning about Russia's aspirations here to expand spy networks?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pam, current and former U.S. officials told us that Russia really sees these talks with the U.S. about reestablishing its diplomatic presence on U.S. soil as a prime opening to reestablish its spy network here in the United States, which has really been decimated over the last nearly 10 years, since 2016, as the U.S. has continued to expel Russian diplomats who they say are actually intelligence operatives operating under very thin cover out of their consulates and embassies across the country.

And we are told actually that in these talks, this has been such a priority for the Russians getting these diplomatic facilities back, getting their people back inside the U.S. that they are actually withholding a future high-level meeting with the United States on issues perhaps related to Ukraine and other sensitive topics until they can see progress, tangible progress, on getting their people back into the United States.

Now, as I said, the Russians have been really trying to rebuild their spy network not only here in the U.S., but also in Europe, where it has been decimated in particular since Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022, and Europe took really dramatic steps to expel all of the Russian intelligence operatives that they could identify.

But in terms of this move now, where it seems as though these operatives are going to be allowed to come back in some significant number to the U.S. A U.S. official told us that -- quote -- "the last wave of expulsions," they were almost entirely operatives under thin cover, and he said it is absolutely ludicrous that this is even in the cards, given how endangering it would be to U.S. national security and how it would require more FBI counterintelligence resources to address, especially when the FBI is facing staffing reductions and dismissals. Now, this is really key because we were also told that FBI agents who

work in counterintelligence are actually more reluctant now than they have been previously to go after Russian intelligence operatives or work those kinds of cases, because it could be seen as directly at odds with the Trump administration's stated desire to better improve relations with Moscow.

So you have on the one hand the possibility that several of these intelligence operatives are going to be coming back to the U.S. and then an FBI that's going to be more limited in how much pressure they can actually place on these operatives.

But, still, this is not just a one-way street. The U.S. is also going to, depending on how these talks go, place its own operatives back inside Russian territory, at embassies, for example, inside Moscow and other facilities. And so that could also present, of course, an opportunity for the U.S. to have more freedom of movement and more freedom to collect intelligence on the Russians.

But, still, there has always been a large disparity between the number of Russian intelligence operatives operating here versus the Americans operating in Russia, Pam.

BROWN: And give us a sense, if you would, Natasha, of where these previous Russian consulates and embassies were located.

BERTRAND: They were located really all over the country.

In 2017, the Trump administration actually took steps to close the consulates in Washington, D.C., in New York, in Houston as a direct result of Russia's meddling in the 2016 election.

And then we saw also that they took steps to close a facility that the Russians had in Seattle because of its proximity to a U.S. Naval base there. There were concerns even then about Russian espionage activities. And the Russians are extremely eager to get these facilities back.

In fact, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, he said publicly that he brought this issue up of these properties that the Russians want back in that recent high-level meeting with Secretary of State Marco Rubio, National Security Adviser Mike Waltz, and envoy Steve Witkoff that they had in Riyadh, so clearly a sign here of just how much emphasis they are placing on getting these facilities back, Pam.

BROWN: Absolutely.

Natasha Bertrand, thank you so much.

We have some chilling new information just coming in from the investigation into the deaths of Gene Hackman and his wife. That's ahead here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:39:14] BROWN: Happening right now at the White House president, Donald Trump is meeting in the Oval Office with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. We are expecting to get the tape of that meeting shortly. And, of course, we will bring that to you when we get it.

And this just in. It is the end of an era. Skype is shutting down. Microsoft just announced that it will shut down the video calling service beginning in may. Skype launched in 2003. Its popularity skyrocketed, but it's been pushed out by competitors from other platforms such as Zoom and FaceTime.

Well, officials in New Mexico now say the deaths of Gene Hackman, his wife, Betsy, and their dog, are suspicious enough for an investigation. But they're also saying there have been no immediate signs of foul play.

[11:40:05]

Deputies were called to the couple's home for a wellness check Wednesday after a caretaker made this call to 911:

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: Do they appear to be awake or alert?

CARETAKER: No, no, no, no, no.

911 OPERATOR: Are they moving at all?

CARETAKER: No, they're not moving. Just send somebody out here really quick.

911 OPERATOR: OK, my units on their way, OK?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BROWN: CNN's Veronica Miracle joins us.

This is such a mystery. What more are you hearing, Veronica, from authorities?

VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Pamela, it seems like, the more information we get, the more perplexing this becomes.

The newest information we have this morning is that their bodies may have been there for a couple of weeks, up to a few weeks, according to the Santa Fe County sheriff. He was telling NBC that this morning.

But what they don't know still is exactly how the two of them died and also their dog. So what is clear right now is both Gene Hackman and Betsy Arakawa and their dog, they didn't have any external trauma, so no external injuries or wounds. There was no sign of a struggle. There was also nothing missing from the house, so no signs of a burglary.

And so, on the surface, it appears that there's no signs of foul play, according to officials. But also important is that there were no immediate signs of a carbon monoxide or a natural gas leak when authorities arrived, which is important, because it doesn't necessarily mean that it didn't happen at some point, but that will be an important finding in the toxicology report in the weeks to come.

But there are some clues that are giving authorities pause. Take a listen to the sheriff.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADAN MENDOZA, SANTA FE COUNTY, NEW MEXICO, SHERIFF: There were several doors that were unlocked at the residence. So, I believe the front door was closed, but unlocked, unsecured. There was one door that was ajar, and that was towards the rear of the residence that two of the dogs that survived were coming in and out of the residence.

We're not sure if that door was open upon the arrival of emergency personnel or if that -- it was open upon entry of emergency personnel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MIRACLE: And, Pamela, when police responded they discovered Betsy Arakawa's body in the bathroom on the ground. She was also found next to some scattered pills. Hackman's body was found on the ground in the kitchen, and then the dog that had died was found dead in his crate. Of course, there were two healthy dogs roaming the property.

So, again, all of this will be playing into the investigation, but at this point no clear signs of exactly what happened. There is going to be a press conference later this afternoon and, hopefully, we will get some more information -- Pam.

BROWN: All right, Veronica, thank you so much.

And still ahead this hour: How does a 19-year-old who can't write or read graduate with honors? That's the mystery in Connecticut. And now she's suing the school.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:47:41]

BROWN: Hundreds of thousands of people in Greece marked two years since the country's deadliest train crash by demanding justice for victims. You see this video right here in Athens. Some protesters clashed with police there.

They are angry about safety gaps and an unfinished investigation and they are demanding improvements to rail safety; 57 people were killed in the crash. Victims' families accused the government of negligence and a cover-up.

And, right now, more sweeping cuts of the federal work force, this time at the agency that oversees the National Hurricane Center and Weather Service. Sources tell CNN that 800 employees at NOAA have been tapped for terminations, with more firings possible today.

But a federal judge has granted temporary relief for some of the organizations fighting President Trump's dismantling of the government. He ruled that the mass firings of probationary federal workers is likely unlawful.

CNN's Rene Marsh joins us. So, what is the bottom line here, the immediate impact from this decision, Rene?

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So this judge specifically blocked the Department of Defense from carrying out any mass firings as it relates to probationary employees specifically.

But, really, when you talk about just broadly these thousands of probationary employees who have been fired, it's really unclear at this point. The judge made it a point to say that he didn't have the power to reinstate employees who had already been fired.

And, also, he made the point that agencies themselves have the right to fire probationary employees. But what was clear was that this judge felt as if OPM overstepped their authority, that they have no authority to instruct or direct agencies to carry out these mass firings.

He said -- in quite strong words, he says: "OPM does not have any authority whatsoever under any statute in the history of the universe to hire or fire any employees on its own."

This certainly is seen as a win for these labor unions who brought this suit saying that this action was illegal. The president of AFGE, one of the unions representing thousands of these federal employees, saying that these firings were illegal and, plain and simple, they will keep on fighting until they stop these demoralizing and damaging attacks on the civil servants.

[11:50:00]

The other last thing that came out of this was that, again, this judge saying that he's not able to reinstate the people who have already been fired. So, again, Pam, it remains to be seen the full impact.

BROWN: It's the fact that he clarified, in the universe, you know?

(LAUGHTER)

MARSH: In the universe.

BROWN: Clearly, he's trying to make a point with his language.

And what about the big staffing cuts to NOAA? I mean, right now, obviously, this isn't hurricane season, but what could this mean for us in hurricane season?

MARSH: Yes.

So, sources tell CNN some 800 people terminated yesterday, including many probationary, coming on the same day as this ruling from this judge. But we are expecting more. So the final number could be something like 1,000 people from this one agency.

And this is an agency that employs scientists, researchers, focus on things like climate at a time where we are seeing a lot of frequent extreme weather events. And this is also an agency that has dealt with a lot of understaffing. So this will be a blow to this agency to lose this many within just 24 hours.

BROWN: Yes, certainly.

Rene, thank you so much.

Well, graduating high school and looking forward to college is a defining moment for a lot of teens. But for one young woman in Connecticut, that moment came with a lot of challenges. As she sets her sights on attending the University of Connecticut, she's also suing her former school district. She says she graduated with honors, despite never learning how to read or write.

CNN's Danny Freeman explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Did you ever think you'd be going to college here?

ALEYSHA ORTIZ, COLLEGE STUDENT SUING SCHOOL DISTRICT: No, never. Never in a million years.

FREEMAN (voice-over): In some ways, Aleysha Ortiz is living an American dream. The 19-year-old began her freshman year at the University of Connecticut in Hartford this fall. She's excited to study public policy, the culmination of hard work after moving north from Puerto Rico as a child.

(on camera): Do you remember when you first came to Connecticut?

ORTIZ: Yes, I remember. I was very nervous, but I know it was going to be a better opportunity for me to learn.

FREEMAN (voice-over): But Aleysha says those opportunities never came to fruition.

(on camera): Even today, could you read this or would it take you a long time?

ORTIZ: It's impossible. I just see these words everywhere.

FREEMAN (voice-over): Aleysha graduated from the Hartford Public School System last year, but she says today she is illiterate. She still doesn't know how to read or write.

When she was in early education...

ORTIZ: They would just either tell me to stay in a corner and sleep or just draw pictures, flowers for them.

FREEMAN: And when she was in high school, she relied on speech-to- text programs and other apps to read and write essays.

(on camera): So, if you had an assignment where you had to write something, you'd open up a document like this, and then do what?

ORTIZ: I would go here to use the text-to-speech.

FREEMAN: It says "Dictate."

ORTIZ: "Dictate," yes. I love pizza.

FREEMAN: This is how you would do your assignments.

ORTIZ: And then:

COMPUTER VOICE: (INAUDIBLE) Sporting a twin-prop airplane.

FREEMAN: If you had to read something, that's how you'd do it.

(voice-over): She said her mother, who does not speak English well, tried to get answers.

ORTIZ: She advocated so much. She went to the school. The principal would promise her that they would do better. And, sometimes, there would be people from the district or the directors promising her that they would do better.

FREEMAN: Now, Aleysha is suing the Hartford Board of Education and the city for negligence. The suit alleges the school district documented and acknowledged Aleysha's learning challenges through multiple grades, but because they were not adequately addressed, she continued to struggle academically and began exhibiting maladaptive behaviors in the classroom.

ORTIZ: Sometimes, I will feel proud to be the bad child, because at least I was something to them, and I wasn't invisible.

FREEMAN: While the city of Hartford and an educator named in the suit declined to comment when contacted by CNN, in a statement, Hartford Public Schools wrote: "While Hartford Public Schools cannot comment on pending litigation, we remain deeply committed to meeting the full range of needs our students bring with them when they enter our schools and helping them reach their full potential."

JESSE TURNER, LITERACY CENTER, CENTRAL CONNECTICUT STATE UNIVERSITY: What's "Dog Man"?

FREEMAN: Dr. Jesse Turner is the leader of the Literacy Center at Central Connecticut State University. He feels the main issue here is inequality in public education.

TURNER: America should be asking a question. Do we really care about our children, all of our children? And I would argue that maybe we don't. FREEMAN: A 2019 report from EdBuild, which promotes equity in public

schools, found that majority non-white school districts get $23 billion less than districts that serve mostly white students. Minority enrollment in Hartford's public schools is at about 90 percent.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Department of Education is a big con job.

FREEMAN: Plus, Turner fears a crucial guardrail will be lost if the Trump administration follows through with abolishing the Department of Education.

[11:55:04]

TURNER: How do I protect the special education children? Who do I go to if I close it down?

FREEMAN: College has presented its own obstacles, but Aleysha says UConn has been accommodating. But she doesn't want any other student to go through what she experienced.

ORTIZ: I know we can do better. And I know we have a powerful community that wants to do better. I want to be the voice for them.

FREEMAN: Danny Freeman, CNN, Hartford, Connecticut.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: What a story.

Well, thank you so much for joining us. I'm Pamela Brown. Hope you have a great weekend. And do not forget, join Wolf Blitzer and me in "THE SITUATION ROOM" starting Monday, weekday mornings from 10:00 to noon. And, in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram, TikTok and X @PamelaBrownCNN.

Stay with us. "INSIDE POLITICS WITH DANA BASH" starts after a short break.