Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Zelenskyy Meet British PM In London After Trump Clash; "We Stand With Ukraine": European Leaders Rally Around Zelenskyy; Sheriff: Hackman Likely Dead For Nine Days Before Being Found; WH Claims Fiery Oval Office Meeting With Zelensky Is A Win For Trump; GOP Sen. Murkowski: "Sick To My Stomach" After Fiery WH Meeting; Economists: Trump Tariffs Likely To Drive Car Prices Much Higher; West Texas Measles Outbreak Grows To 146 Cases; Officials: Majority Of People Infected In TX Measles Outbreak, Children 5 - 17, Many Are Unvaccinated. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired March 01, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:44]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jessica Dean in New York, and tonight, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is looking to Europe for help defending his country against Russia.

The Ukrainian leader receiving a much friendlier reception from British Prime Minister Keir Starmer at 10 Downing Street today, just a day after Zelenskyy's explosive meeting in the Oval Office Friday afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEIR STARMER, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: That you're very, very welcome here in Downing Street, and as you've heard from the cheers on the street outside, you have full backing across the United Kingdom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Today, the U.K. announcing plans to speed up a $2.8 billion loan for Ukraine, just 24 hours after President Trump abruptly ended his meeting with Zelenskyy at the White House.

CNN international diplomatic editor, Nic Robertson is live in London with more details.

Nic, we look ahead to these next few hours, the next day, how critical are these for President Zelenskyy?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: They are very critical. I think what he got in London today from Keir Starmer was a good bounce coming out of that fractious meeting at the White House. So, it kind of got him back on his feet, if you will. Not that he needed much of it because it has been pretty clear about what his narrative is about, what he believes.

But as he said, this was a warm and significant meeting. It was a meeting where he was happy to be able to have it with a partner who shared Ukraine's vision for the future. You're still looking at the hug there.

This is not something that Prime Minister Keir Starmer does very often, and that was it. This was demonstrated to the cameras there that this was a different type of meeting, a different environment, a different engagement.

And the meeting tomorrow with the European leaders who are coming and there is more than a dozen of them coming, Germans will be there, the French, the Italians, the Norwegians, the Swedish, the Finns -- a whole host of leaders coming, as well as the NATO Secretary General.

Here Zelenskyy has a broader audience, and the NATO Secretary General, for example, has said, look, Zelenskyy, you need to kind of remake that relationship with President Trump. You need to remake that relationship with senior figures within the White House, so there will be an undercurrent of that narrative.

But the reality here, and this is what Starmer is talking about in advance of the meeting, is there are immediate needs. Right now, they need -- these leaders need to make sure that military and economic support going to Ukraine is maintained, irrespective of what happens with the United States, that there is in the future, security guarantees, that there is a process to a realistic and lasting peace that can be put in place, so that will be the focus.

But I think what we will be looking for in the outcome is what is the outreach then back towards the White House? Is it a collective thing from these European leaders? Is it what the Italian Prime Minister has suggested she wants, which is a summit, a quick and soon summit with President Trump and European Union leaders. Will that be a narrative that emerges?

But for Zelenskyy, he feels that he is in a much better and safer environment here in the U.K. than in the U.S. because he feels he has got commonality of vision on Ukraine's future that he doesn't get out of the White House at the moment, so he is going to want to build on that, but he really needs to build that bridge with the United States, and that's what we are looking for tomorrow.

DEAN: Yes. Can that happen?

All right, Nic Robertson, thank you so much. We appreciate it.

And joining us now is Kurt Volker, the former U.S. Ambassador to NATO and the former U.S. Representative for Ukraine negotiations.

Thank you so much for being here. The perfect person to talk about all of this with. I think we are just jumping off where Nic left off there, jumping back in. Is Ukraine's future now in the hands of European leaders? Has the U.S. effectively ceded that?

KURT VOLKER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO AND FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FOR UKRAINE NEGOTIATIONS: No, I don't think so and I don't think anyone should be thinking of it that way. We had a very unfortunate meeting at the White House on Friday. I am glad to see European leaders show support for President Zelenskyy. And I thought Nic made a lot of really good points, including Starmer saying about immediate needs.

We do have to focus on what is immediate in terms of helping Ukraine and what Europeans can do, but we have got to get this back to the U.S. and Europe and Ukraine all being on the same page and finding a way to convince Putin to stop the war.

[16:05:12 ]

And that is where President Trump was trying to drive this. It has been disrupted for a bit now, but I hope that together, when they are meeting behind closed doors, this is one of the main topics of conversation, is how to get Ukraine and the United States and Europe all back on the same page again.

DEAN: And are you confident that can happen?

VOLKER: I think so. I think President Trump, on his way to Marine One when he was giving that impromptu press conference, kind of laid out what he needs to hear from Zelenskyy. He needs to hear a commitment from Zelenskyy that he truly wants peace, and that he is prepared to accept a ceasefire.

And what I think President Zelenskyy needs to do is turn around the way he has talked about this. He said he can't have a ceasefire without security guarantees. Turn that around and say he is ready for a ceasefire immediately, but Putin has got to have a ceasefire as well and we have to make sure that it lasts, that he doesn't attack again and that is going to require a lot of work going forward.

I think that's roughly what President Trump is thinking, but the way things went Friday, there is a lot of building bridges to do again now.

DEAN: Yes, and so how do you do that? How do you begin to repair that relationship, do you think?

VOLKER: Well, I think first off all, I think there does need to be some kind of recognition from President Zelenskyy that the meeting went very badly. He should not have carried on a debate with the Vice President and the President in front of the cameras. This was meant to be a positive day, aligning U.S. and Ukrainian interests, economic interests, but then more broadly, a shared strategic partnership going forward, and that he wants to get back to that.

And then, secondly, to say that he is ready for peace and a ceasefire, and he wants to do that with the United States and so how -- what do you see happening now? Now Zelenskyy is in Europe trying to, you know, bolster his support there as we were just walking through. Trump has laid out as you note, what he needs to hear from them.

What about the Russia of it all? What happens with Russia right now?

VOLKER: Well, Russia is sitting pretty right now. They are delighted that this meeting in the Oval Office blew up. They were probably rather concerned to see U.S. and Ukrainian interests aligned around this minerals deal, and the fact that that has been put on ice now makes them very, very happy.

So they are not going to do anything. They are going to keep up the attacks overnight on Kyiv and other major cities, attacks on the frontline because they want to project a position of strength. I think this is why, you know, Starmer is right to focus on immediate needs, shoring up Ukraine's energy sector. The U.S. is cutting off some USAID assistance there, shoring up Ukraine's ammunition supplies and the political support as well.

But we've got to get Ukraine and the U.S. back working together towards a common outcome with our European allies. That may take a week or so, but I think we have to stay focused on that, even while we deal with the immediate needs and Russia's continued attacks.

DEAN: Do you think that the Trump administration has held Russia and President Trump himself has held Russia properly accountable here?

VOLKER: No, I don't think that that's been President Trump's objective at this stage. As he said in that Oval Office meeting, he doesn't want to be calling out President Putin and accusing him of all the things that he has done, because he wants to get him to the table.

He has threatened pressure on Russia, sanctions, tariffs, taxes, and this minerals deal would have created a pathway for sustainable U.S. military support to Ukraine, which is very important to show Putin that this is sustainable. So I think he has been trying to avoid demonizing Putin personally while putting in place some of these building blocks.

Again, this is now in pieces on the floor. We've got to try to pick it up.

DEAN: And what is the future for NATO here as a former ambassador to NATO? What do you think the future is?

VOLKER: I think the future is strong for NATO. I think Mark Rutte has been doing a great job in these recent days, messaging about what needs to happen, what Zelenskyy needs to do, what the interests of all the NATO allies are.

I see European allies spending more on defense well beyond the two percent, that's the current target. I think that's important for NATO. It is important to sustain U.S. support.

I think the collective defense commitment has proven itself over these past three years. Russia has not attacked any NATO countries. I think we have to maintain that, and then I think we have to have an interim period where Ukraine is a secure, sovereign, independent state and there is a ceasefire with Russia, things have stabilized, and then we work towards permanent security commitments for Ukraine, which could include NATO membership in the future.

[18:10:10]

DEAN: But do you think that those fellow NATO members, those other NATO countries, do you think that there has been a break in trust with the United States at this point?

VOLKER: I think they are very, very frustrated with President Trump. They don't like the way he messages, the way he communicates, policies that he has put in place going back to the Munich Security Conference and Vice President Vance's messages or this meeting in the Oval Office. Now, they don't like it, but interests are interests.

And I would just say the U.S. and Ukraine have a shared interest, including around this minerals and resources deal. The United States and Europe have a shared interest in containing Vladimir Putin and his efforts to rewrite borders in Europe.

So we approach it differently, there is a lot of emotions in the air right now, but we've got to focus on what our interests are and getting common outcomes together.

DEAN: All right, Kurt Volker, thank you very much for your time. We really appreciate it.

VOLKER: My pleasure. Thank you.

DEAN: Breaking news tonight: Israel says it has agreed to extend its ceasefire deal with Hamas. That deal paused fighting in Gaza for weeks as dozens of Israeli hostages and then hundreds of Palestinian prisoners were released.

Among the hostages freed, Israeli American, Sagui Dekel-Chen. The Israeli Prime Minister's Office saying the U.S. made the proposal for that extension. It will extend the current ceasefire, which would have expired tonight through the end of March, including the Muslim Holy Month of Ramadan and the Jewish holiday of Passover.

The agreement would also see more hostage releases. The Israeli Prime Minister Office says Hamas has not signed off on that proposal just yet.

New information about the death of Hollywood actor, Gene Hackman and his wife. Just how long were they dead before a caretaker found them? We are going to talk more about this when we come back here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:16:39]

DEAN: Family and friends mourning the mysterious deaths of Oscar winner, Gene Hackman and his wife, Betsy Arakawa, discovered in their New Mexico home Wednesday days before the 97th Academy Awards.

Investigators say Hackman's pacemaker showed he died nine days before being found, and that his wife's hands and feet showed signs of mummification, but officials say they do not suspect foul play.

This, as they await more in-depth toxicology and autopsy reports. CNN's Julia Vargas Jones is joining us live from Santa Fe.

Julia, we know that investigators also took a lot of items outside of the home. What more can you tell us?

JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, aside from both of their cellphones, there are two devices that were found in the home, Jessica. They also found a medication. There was Tylenol, just regular over-the-counter Tylenol and thyroid and blood pressure medication that was taken, as well as medical records that were found in the home.

Look, both Gene Hackman and his wife, Betsy Arakawa were in different parts of the home. That's according to this search warrant, where the deputies actually described quite a lot of detail, what they saw when they entered the home.

Miss Arakawa was in a bathroom and there was a space heater on the floor next to her, as well as pills scattered around the bathroom counter. And Mr. Hackman was in this mud room off the kitchen with a cane and sunglasses on the floor next to him. That's curious, because authorities have also already ruled out carbon monoxide poisoning in their deaths. So as they don't see any signs of trauma to the bodies, no sign of foul play, it really remains a mystery to figure out what is it that took place in that home that could lead these two people to their deaths?

And there is another point here that I want to make, Jessica. That is, they aren't ruling out completely foul play. It is an ongoing investigation, and the sheriff is pointing to that toxicology report as probably what will give answers in the investigation.

DEAN: And Julia, do we know how long it will take to get that information back? That toxicology report?

JONES: It could take as little as three weeks, as long as three months, they warned us. But it will be important because since there are no external factors here, Jessica, it is what they are looking at.

Look, there is another added challenge to this, which is piecing together the timeline of a couple that was very private and that lived in this secluded home here in Santa Fe.

They weren't -- they didn't have any recording devices in their home, so it is hard to piece that together. You know, we know when Gene Hackman died now, thankfully, thanks to that pacemaker data that came out on Friday, but we still don't know how long his wife might have been there.

You know, we talked about signs of mummification on her body. Of course, authorities say that it could be longer. It could happen depending on weather conditions, climate conditions, how dry a house was. It could have happened at the same time. It could have happened days apart, even.

And so that toxicology report and the full autopsy will be key here the Sheriff says to find out what is it that took place that led them to their deaths -- Jessica.

DEAN: All right, Julia Vargas Jones there in Santa Fe with the latest. Thank you for that reporting.

[18:20:05]

Some federal workers are about to have a new task to start each week.

We will tell you what it is here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: Tonight, the State Department is telling its workers not to respond, that it will reply for them to a new e-mail from the Office of Personnel Management sent at the behest of Elon Musk's DOGE. A second e-mail went out last night to federal employees, asking them to report back with bullet points of what they did the past week at work.

The subject line was "What did you do last week: Part two." And it claimed documenting their work will now be a weekly requirement for all federal workers. A union representative saying the e-mails went out to workers in several agencies, and CNN correspondent Arlette Saenz is joining us now.

[18:25:07]

Arlette, what more can you tell us about this second e-mail that workers are now receiving?

SAENZ: Well, Jess, it is round two now for these federal workers as they received yet another e-mail asking them to detail their accomplishments for the week. This comes one week after that initial e-mail that was sent out by the Office of Personnel Management, which really set off a lot of confusion and uncertainty for these federal workers who had been facing a Monday deadline.

That e-mail eventually was said to be voluntary. What seems to be different about this one that was sent started to go out last night is that it said that this will now be a weekly requirement. Federal workers are expected to send in a bullet point list of five things that they accomplished in the past week, and copy their managers into that e-mail. The deadline being 11:59 PM Eastern on Monday night.

Now, we have heard from several employees across various agencies who received this e-mail, that includes people at the Veterans Affairs Department, Education Department, as well as the CDC. But still, there is a lot of uncertainty for these federal workers, even as they are receiving this e-mail about how exactly to handle it going forward.

DEAN: Right. And to that end is the expectation that everyone responds to this.

SAENZ: Well, it says that this will be required each week, but it is worth noting that the administration has not outlined what any repercussions would be if people did not respond. And it appears that there are some agencies who have already sent out notices to their employees saying that they are going to handle things a little differently. For instance, I am told that last night, the State Department employees did receive an e-mail from OPM, but then this morning, State Department leadership sent them a follow-up e-mail saying that leaders would be responding on their behalf. So essentially telling these workers not to respond.

We've also learned that the Department of Homeland Security has sent a follow up e-mail to their staff, asking them to go ahead and submit their accomplishments, but noting that this will be kept to an internal system only partly due to the National Security issues that they are handling.

So it appears that there are different approaches, perhaps because it relates to certain National Security or foreign policy issues that these agencies are taking. But still, it raises a lot of questions for these employees about whether they need to answer or what exactly the repercussions might be if they don't.

DEAN: Right. All right, Arlette Saenz, thanks so much for that reporting.

And joining us now, senior political analyst, Ron Brownstein.

Ron, good to see you.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Good to see you.

DEAN: We just heard from Arlette Saenz reporting there about how employees are being asked again to talk about and report on their activities at work. What do you -- how do you see this? I mean, this is going to be apparently what they are going to have to do now going forward. How do you see this going over and federal employees' reacting?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, look, I mean, I think as you heard there. I mean, there are a lot of issues here. I mean, one are the security implications of having in one place the names of so many federal employees and their managers. I mean, there have been National Security experts who have raised questions about the risk that is inherent in centralizing that much information, given that we know that foreign intelligence agencies spend a lot of time and money trying to penetrate federal data systems.

Second, I mean, I think it is an ongoing way of just trying to put pressure on federal employees and trying to reduce the workforce. And third, and this is something really that isn't being talked about too much. But, you know, if you recall, I guess very few people will recall back in 1981, Ronald Reagan fired the air traffic controllers, and it sent a signal of weakness of unions that led to years of kind of rollback of union gains in the private economy.

I remember that when Trump did the online interview with Musk during the campaign, and Musk said he fired workers who were trying to form a union, Trump went, wow, you know, kind of like almost fanboy, like in appreciation. Trump was someone who won a lot of votes from union members, especially White union members and you really have to wonder what is the signal being sent here about the inability of unions to protect federal workers and what that might inspire in the private sector as well.

DEAN: And I also want to ask you about, obviously, the fallout around the Zelenskyy meeting. We are now getting reporting from my colleague, Betsy Klein, the White House really views this as a win, as a victory for them. We see people like Lisa Murkowski, a senator from -- Republican senator from Alaska, she said, she is sick to her stomach as the administration appears to be walking away from our allies.

What is the fallout of this? Because aside from Murkowski and a handful of other Republicans, it does seem that a lot Of Republicans, at least publicly, are going along with this.

[18:30:11]

RONALD BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, I think this falls in the category of beware of what you wish for, you just might get it. I remember writing during the transition, and I think we talked about it, that, you know, many of the constraints on Donald Trump from his first term were going to be gone in the second term. Republicans in Congress were not going to stand up to him on almost anything. You don't have - he didn't have Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan at the center of things. He didn't feel compelled to appoint officials who were going to push back on him, particularly in National Security, as he did the first term.

And as a result, you were going to get Trump unfiltered, you know? And what we got on Friday was Trump unfiltered, his disdain for Ukraine, his disdain for Zelenskyy, you know, who did not go along with his effort to strong arm him in 2019 into ginning up an investigation into Hunter Biden, which led to Trump's first impeachment. And, you know, a very clear signal to Europe that, you know, he is more than willing to walk away and leave Ukraine to its own devices against Putin's, you know, larger war machine.

Well, if you think back to 2021, think about what the fall of Kabul did to Joe Biden's approval rating. In fact, he went below 50 percent as Kabul collapsed, never to rise above it again during his presidency. What would it look like for world opinion and U.S. opinion if Kyiv ultimately does collapse, if Trump does walk away and let Putin have his way?

You know, many European analysts have reacted to this confrontation by saying that it could be counterproductive for Trump in that it will embolden Putin to think, why make a deal? I can keep going and eventually the U.S. will pull out and leave Ukraine to fall.

So, obviously, the Europeans want to put this back together. There's a reporting today, the British Prime Minister is encouraging Zelenskyy to make the minerals deal. But I think this fits into that larger category. We are getting Trump unbound, and that is not an unmitigated blessing for either him or for the GOP. DEAN: And we are going to hear from him on Tuesday as he ...

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

DEAN: ... does his first joint session - addresses his first joint session - does his first address to a joint session of Congress in his new - his second term. How do you think that's going to play out?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, you know, look, I think Trump, you know, is basically going to say this is a new golden era and that we are rescuing America from the kind of disaster that Joe Biden left. And he will point to what, I think, is attractive to his supporters, just, you know, an intense flurry of activity at home and abroad.

And Republicans, as I said, you know, there's just very little will to set - to stand up to him on almost anything. I mean, the contrast between kind of Lisa Murkowski and virtually all of her other colleagues, H.R. McMaster, who was Trump's first National Security advisor, tweeting something similar and in a way making the contrast to today's silence so loud.

Trump has a death grip on the Republican Party. He has overwhelming support among Republican voters. Republicans in Congress are afraid to cross him, but there is evidence already, you know, in multiple polls that kind of Trump unbound may be more than many Americans signed up for. I mean, there are a lot of polls with his approval rating falling into the mid-40s as we talked about. His approval rating is net negative consistently in polls among independents, between 10 and 20 points, which is unusual this early in the presidency.

And most importantly, I think you're seeing in the consumer confidence surveys from the conference board and the University of Michigan, a lot of concern in the public about inflation. I mean, three quarters of Americans in the CBS poll last week said that their income was not keeping up with prices. That is the problem Trump was elected to solve above all.

And there are a lot of other things going on. Elon Musk's storyline has kind of conquered, you know, overshadowed everything else in the presidency. But I think the risk for him is if voters' feel that he is losing sight of the issue that elected him and is focusing on other things, including passing tax cuts that, you know, enrich his already rich buddies while cutting programs that could hurt them, which is the path that the House is moving toward on the budget.

DEAN: Right. And how long will people, you know, go with the chaos and feel comfortable with it is another question, too.

Ron Brownstein, thank you so much. We really appreciate it.

BROWNSTEIN: Thanks for having me. Yes.

DEAN: Sticker shock, why buying a car could get a lot more expensive starting this week. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [18:39:23]

DEAN: President Trump this week repeated his promise that his new tariffs will kick in on Tuesday, making it cost more for goods coming across America's borders with Canada and Mexico. And that could mean some sticker shock.

New car prices already averaging nearly $50,000, according to Kelley Blue Book. A new analysis says the tariffs could drive prices up by as much as $10,000 additional. And a separate study by Insurify found the tariffs will also send your car insurance rates higher.

Joining us now from Toronto, Flavio Volpe, the president of the Automotive Parts Manufacturers' Association. Thank you so much for joining us this evening.

[18:40:02]

FLAVIO VOLPE, PRESIDENT, AUTOMOTIVE PARTS MANUFACTURERS' ASSOCIATION: Thanks for having me.

DEAN: Flavio, the president has said that the idea is to strengthen American car companies. Yes, when you start to put all of these together, that does seem like a disconnect from what might a reality?

VOLPE: What he doesn't get is that between our two countries and also Mexico, we've built the auto sector together. Ford has been here for 120 years. And when he says strengthen American auto companies, half of the cars made in Canada, you know, the 2 million cars made by General Motors, Ford, Dodge, Chrysler.

And so, if he puts a tariff, a 25 percent tariff, those Silverados, those Chargers, those Ford SUVs are going to go up by 25 percent. But also really importantly, we've co-invested with each other. There's 172 Canadian auto parts plants in 26 U.S. States. Parts cross the border really so often that, you know, a Jeep plant in Toledo, Ohio might have 30-, 40 percent content from Canada and Mexico. And, you know, all of that content will go up 25 percent. So even if it's made in Ohio, it's going to go up $5,000, $6,000, $7,000.

DEAN: And the Wall Street Journal board wrote this week, quote, "If the goal is to harm U.S. autoworkers and Republican prospects in Michigan, then by all means, go ahead, Mr. President." The CEO of Ford Motor saying, "Let's be real honest, long term, a 25 percent tariff across Mexico and Canada borders would blow a hole in the U.S. industry."

And so from where you're sitting, and I know you just laid out why it's all so interconnected, how much damage are we talking about for that industry?

VOLPE: Well, you can't make a car without all of the parts. And cars are made in states all across the U.S. from Michigan all the way down to Texas. Those parts cross borders. Some of them come from Canada, some from Mexico. During the pandemic, when the president - President Trump declared a pandemic on March 17, 2020, March 18th, with all of these plants kind of short on labor, the industry shut down for 60 days. When the Ambassador Bridge between Detroit and Windsor was blocked by protesters in 2022, you know, it took two days and plants from Michigan down to Kentucky were closed because you can't finish a car if you don't get the seats or the wheels.

And so, it's one thing to talk about the price of eggs or maybe the price of gas might go up. But what will happen here, and I think Jim Farley saying it, is that the industry will shut down and people in Michigan will be home from work. And maybe the target is Ontario, Canada, but people in Alabama and Tennessee and Georgia and Ohio will be sitting at home wondering why they're on temporary layoff.

DEAN: And that's what I do want to ask you, too, is what does this mean for jobs.

VOLPE: Well, there's 900,000 Americans who either make cars or make parts or make the tools to make those cars and parts. And there's about 125,000 here in Canada who will be sitting at home like they did in those two instances. We know in automotive that that is a certainty and I think you're hearing a lot of people stand up, Americans stand up and say, let's think about this a little bit.

We're so intertwined and especially Canada is so invested. Canadian companies have investments in the U.S. that employ 48,000 Americans in this space. We are absolutely full partners and we want to be.

And the competition is supposed to be China. And, you know, we can help. We've been - you know, when Ford was a one-year-old startup, they invested in Windsor on the other side of the river. We've built this together. We are prosperous together. And certainly if somebody - if the president wants to improve the USMCA, the trade agreement between us, then that's a table that, you know, we're glad to sit down. But I don't know what putting people out of work means or if it's good for anybody on either side of the border.

DEAN: And what's your advice to anyone who's looking to buy a car in the near future?

VOLPE: Well, you know, if you're going to buy one before Tuesday, before the tariffs come in and we either shut down or become more expensive, you should go and do it. But really, the real advice is look at the VIN number and look at the second digit and help the argument that the President is trying to make, which I think some of it is valid is help American workers by buying American cars. That will help Canada, too, because a whole bunch of our parts are in there or Canadian companies in states like Mexico are employing - in states like Michigan are employing Americans to help make those cars.

DEAN: Yes. Flavio Volpe, thank you so much for being with us. We appreciate your time.

VOLPE: Always a pleasure. Thank you.

DEAN: Thank you.

This week, for the first time in a decade, a child died in the United States from the measles. There are more than a hundred cases in West Texas right now.

[18:45:04]

We're going to break down the newest information for you when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:48:44]

DEAN: The measles outbreak in Texas progressively getting worse. Officials confirming 22 additional cases, bringing the total to 146 since that outbreak began late last month. Children and the unvaccinated making up the bulk of these cases.

[18:50:00]

And this update comes days after the virus claimed the life of a West Texas child, marking the first measles death in the United States in a decade. Joining us now, Dr. Peter Hotez, the director for the Center for Vaccine Development at the Texas Children's Hospital.

Dr. Hotez, thank you for being here with us.

I'd love to just get your thoughts first on how we're continuing to see this outbreak grow. And of course, this devastating news that for the first time in a decade, we had a child who died from measles in the United States.

DR. PETER HOTEZ, CO-DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR VACCINE DEVELOPMENT AT THE TEXAS CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL: Yes. No, Jessica, it's a horrible tragedy. I mean, this is a school age child who was unvaccinated, whose life would have been saved had that child received at least one dose of the MMR vaccine, the measles, mumps, rubella vaccine, and probably by the age of five, too.

So, this child did not have to lose his or her life. And by the way, we still have another 20 kids, by some estimates, in the children's hospitals, mostly around Lubbock. So, this thing is still accelerating, even though the official number is 146. I think there are a lot of other, both children and adults, who are still in the process of being diagnosed, trying to get a confirmatory IgM measles antibody, or in some cases, people who aren't seeking medical attention.

So, I - and remember that the incubation period of measles is around 12 to 13 days. So, any number you hear about today, remember there's going to be another cohort of children and adults who are going to be infected almost two weeks from now. So, we're still maybe in the early stages of this. I think we're going to go up - continue to go up significantly.

DEAN: And, of course, after COVID-19, that really ignited this whole large debate about vaccines that had previously, you know, really accelerated that conversation and vaccine skepticism. How do you think that plays a role in all of this? And what should people know about that?

HOTEZ: Yes, it's a good question. I mean, we had seen anti-vaccine activism, especially here in Texas, rise over the last 10 years. We have a very aggressive, unfortunately, anti-vaccine lobby that uses terms like health freedom, medical freedom and - convince these parents not to vaccinate their children. It really accelerated during COVID.

Here in Texas, my estimate is around 40,000 to 50,000 Texans needlessly died because they refused COVID vaccines. They were targeted by the same similar anti-vaccine forces. And now it's spilling over to childhood immunizations, so - and so I think that's a big part of it.

But, you know, Texas is not alone. Maybe they're the tip of the spear of the anti-vaccine movement, but we're seeing this all over the country. So, I think this is going to be a big challenge for us in 2025. This will not be our last measles epidemic. It may be our largest, but it won't be our last.

And it's not just measles. Remember, there's other childhood preventable illnesses such as pertussis or whooping cough. We've had a five-to-six-fold rise in cases from 2023 to 2024. I'm expecting that to continue to rise. We've had polio detected in the wastewater in New York State in 2022. That's a concern. So, I'm worried about this erosion in our whole vaccine ecosystem here in the United States.

DEAN: And what happens, too, Dr. Hotez, for people who have - who are vaccinated? And I'm even thinking about really young babies that maybe can't get vaccinated until a few months after their birth, if they're out in the world. It's not just this. It's back to this COVID idea too, but it's not just - if you're choosing not to get vaccinated or not vaccinating your children, that does put other people at risk, right?

HOTEZ: At risk and restricts their own freedom. I mean, if you're a young parent and you have a child, let's say that's five or six months of age and not yet old enough to be vaccinated against measles, and you don't know how much maternal antibody you have on board to protect your child, you're concerned. And so, the Department of State Health Services is implementing some revised guidelines where there's a lot of measles transmission going on to vaccinate earlier than we might usually do, and maybe do some catch-up vaccinations later on.

But these are stopgap measures that should never be necessary since we had eliminated measles from the United States in 2000. But the problem is the vaccine ecosystem is fragile and it doesn't take much for diseases to come roaring back. And measles is often the first one we see because it's so highly transmissible.

DEAN: And just before we go, for people out there, it is very, very contagious - measles - and just kind of helping us understand that. And then, also too - and if people want to protect themselves, it sounds like the best protection is to be vaccinated.

HOTEZ: That's right. The measles is so highly transmissible for two reasons.

[18:54:58]

One, if you have 10 individuals who are not vaccinated and they're exposed to the measles virus. On average, nine will become infected. That's because there's a small inoculum, small amount of virus required to infect that individual. But also, measles has this other property that it can linger in the atmosphere. Tiny particles of the virus still remain infectious oftentimes after a person's even left the room. So, you don't even have to be in the same room with someone with measles. Someone could be releasing measles virus through sneezing or coughing. That virus linger in the atmosphere. A person could leave and then another individual who's not vaccinated could walk into that room and acquire the infection and that's why you get these numbers accelerating so quickly.

So, what do you do? Have - be mindful of your vaccination status. The MMR vaccine, the measles, mumps, rubella vaccine, we formulate all three viruses together is one of the safest and most effective vaccines we have. Over 90 percent protection after a single dose and 97 percent protection after two doses.

So, if you're not vaccinated, this is the time to go out and do it.

DEAN: To get it.

HOTEZ: It's a very safe and effective vaccine, right?

DEAN: All right. Dr. Peter Hotez, thank you. We really appreciate your time.

HOTEZ: Thank you.

DEAN: Tomorrow, Ukrainian President Zelenskyy meets with leaders from across the E.U. as he goes on a charm offensive after yesterday's disastrous Oval Office meeting with President Trump and Vice President Vance. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)