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Trump-Zelenskyy Tensions Explode in Oval Office Clash, World Leaders React; Secretary of State Marco Rubio Says Zelenskyy Should Apologize; Pope Francis Received Assisted Ventilation after Respiratory Episode; National Weather Agency Fires around 800 Employees; Gene Hackman "Likely Dead for Nine Days" Before Being Found. Aired 4-5a ET
Aired March 01, 2025 - 04:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Welcome to all of you watching us around the world. I'm Kim Brunhuber. This is CNN NEWSROOM.
An Oval Office spat between president Trump and Zelenskyy put the future of relations between the U.S. and Ukraine in doubt. We'll have reaction from both Kyiv and Moscow.
World leaders are also reacting to the public clash. We will go live to Paris with how Europe is responding.
And concerns deepen over the pope's health after the pontiff experiences a sudden episode of breathing difficulty. We'll have the latest on the 88 year old's condition in a live report from Rome.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Live from Atlanta, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Kim Brunhuber.
BRUNHUBER: Well, this morning, no one, not at Washington nor Kyiv, Brussels, nor Moscow knows what comes next for relations between the U.S. and Ukraine. What we do know is that, right now, Western leaders are scrambling to show their support for Volodymyr Zelenskyy after a diplomatic disaster that the world witnessed.
Now it came when president Donald Trump and vice president JD Vance berated the Ukrainian president. What was supposed to be at least an outward show of unity turned into a shouting match between the two presidents and the U.S. vice president. Here's part of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: What kind of diplomacy, JD, you are speaking about?
What do you mean?
J.D. VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country.
ZELENSKYY: Yes
VANCE: Mr. President, with respect. I think it's disrespectful for you to come into the Oval Office and try to litigate this in front of the American media.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: You're gambling with the lives of millions of people. You're gambling with World War III.
And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country. This country that's backed you far more than a lot of people said they should have.
VANCE: Have you said, thank you once this entire meeting?
No.
In this entire meeting, have you said thank you?
ZELENSKYY: Mr. President, we are staying in our country, staying strong from the very beginning of the war, we've been alone and we are thankful. I said thanks --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: You haven't been alone.
ZELENSKYY: -- in that cabinet.
TRUMP: You haven't been alone. We gave you through this stupid president, $350 billion. We gave you military equipment. You and your men are brave. But they had to use our military equipment. If you didn't have our military equipment --
ZELENSKYY: You invited me to speak --
TRUMP: If you didn't have our military equipment, this war would have been over in two weeks.
ZELENSKYY: In three days, I heard it from Putin, in three days.
TRUMP: Maybe less.
ZELENSKYY: This is something -- two weeks, of course, yes.
TRUMP: It's going to be a very hard thing to do business like this, I can tell you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: Well, the body language seen in these images tells a dramatic story. You can see each president pointing and expressing anger and frustration.
Shortly afterward, president Trump had his staff ask Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy to leave the White House. Now that happened before the pair could sign an agreement giving the U.S. access to Ukrainian mineral deposits for undefined security guarantees. That deal is now in limbo.
Well, now some Republican lawmakers are calling on President Zelenskyy to apologize. He later went on FOX News for a live interview, where he said he doesn't feel the need to do that. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I'm not hearing from you, Mr. President, a thought that you owe the president an apology.
ZELENSKYY: No. I respect president and I respect American people.
I'm not sure that we did something bad.
I think maybe sometimes, some things we have to discuss out of media.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: Well, the White House says president Trump was watching that interview and speaking to reporters after the Oval Office meeting. Trump said he wants the fighting between Russia and Ukraine to stop as soon as possible. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He's dealing with a very weak set of cards. I want immediate peace. President Putin is going to want to make -- and he wants to make -- he wants to end it. And you saw what I saw today. This is a man that wants to get us signed up and keep fighting. And we're not doing that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: The U.S. secretary of state was sitting right next to the U.S. vice president when all this happened. And later, speaking with CNN's Kaitlan Collins, Marco Rubio echoed the idea that Zelenskyy should apologize for what happened.
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KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: He said he does not think that he owes president Trump an apology for what happened inside the Oval Office today. Do you feel otherwise?
MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I do, I do because you guys don't. See, you guys only saw the end. You saw what happened today. You don't see all the things that led up to this.
But what specifically do you want to see President Zelenskyy apologize for? Well, apologize for turning this thing into the fiasco for him that it became. There was no need for him to go in there and become antagonistic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: CNN chief international security correspondent Nick Paton Walsh is in Kyiv with more on the contentious meeting and the global fallout.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: A mixture of indignation here in Ukraine about how the president was treated and acute anxiety about what really happens next, if indeed, as seems possible, American assistance, financial and military begins to ebb or even stall freeze entirely.
There's been a flurry of activity by European leaders, many posting statements of support for Ukraine. Emmanuel Macron, the French president, who indeed paved the way for that meeting in the Oval Office, speaking, according to Ukrainian sources, Zelenskyy shortly after that extraordinary appearance in the White House.
And also, too, the NATO secretary general. The Estonian foreign minister, even suggesting that potentially frozen Russian assets could be used to fund Ukraine's defense.
Separately, Zelenskyy appeared on FOX News shortly afterwards, suggesting he didn't need to apologize to Donald Trump. He didn't think he'd done anything wrong but thinking that the relationship could indeed be salvaged and appearing to suggest that he'd rather that sensitive conversation had occurred outside of the scope of the media.
But we're hearing, too, from a senior U.S. official that they believe it's not really up to the U.S. to fix this relationship. That's down to Zelenskyy himself.
And separately, a source familiar with the negotiations says that it was Zelenskyy's team who pushed for an Oval Office meeting, despite suggestions from the Ukrainian envoy to the Trump administration, Keith Kellogg, that maybe the relationship between Trump and Zelenskyy wasn't actually ready for that delicate stage.
Concerns, too, also from a U.S. official separately, who said that the choice of wardrobe of Zelenskyy, wearing the black shirt that he's often worn and not a suit, remarked upon by Trump on his arrival, may have set the wrong tone and possibly a paraphrase here seemed disrespectful to the White House head.
But we are into a completely unknown chapter now here in Ukraine. Europe, in some ways defiantly, going it alone and saying they will back Ukraine.
And significant uncertainty here about what comes next in terms of assistance on the front line, where Ukraine is indeed losing, what that might do to morale, to recruitment and also to Russian advances.
And also a fear, I think, that the comments by senator Lindsey Graham that potentially Zelenskyy has to fix this or step aside, may spark a flurry here of comments and uncertainties about what exactly will happen to President Zelenskyy, if indeed he can't magically fix this rift with the White House.
Upon which Ukraine's defense against Russia so desperately depends -- Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Kyiv, Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BRUNHUBER: Many international leaders have rallied behind President Zelenskyy after the Oval Office clash. Canadian prime minister Justin Trudeau says Ukrainians have fought with courage and resilience and that their fight for freedom and democracy is what matters to all.
Australian prime minister Anthony Albanese echoed that statement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY ALBANESE, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: The people of Ukraine have suffered greatly in defense of their nation and their national sovereignty. And Russia has acted like a bully, a big country seeking to invade and to take over territory from another sovereign nation; in this case, Ukraine.
And like the rest of, overwhelmingly, countries around the world, we have stood with Ukraine and we will continue to do so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: But Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orban made it clear he's firmly behind Donald Trump. He says the U.S. president stood bravely for peace, even though that was difficult for many to digest. Orban is a longtime ally of both the U.S. and Russian presidents.
CNN's Larry Madowo joins us now from Paris with more.
So Larry, when it comes to European reaction, most leaders seem to be rallying around Zelenskyy. So take us through what you've been seeing.
LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Kim. Europe is reeling from that confrontation at the White House, especially after president Emmanuel Macron and the British prime minister, Keir Starmer, both went to the White House and tried to play peacemaker.
Ingratiating themselves to president Trump and offering, setting the stage for this meeting with President Zelenskyy. But it didn't go well. Most of the public session did go well until the final question, when it went off the rails.
But here in Europe, you see leaders having to recalibrate, offering their full support to President Zelenskyy and to Ukraine but also figuring out what happens now.
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That as the "Kyiv Independent," the newspaper out of Ukraine, says the U.S. appears to have switched sides in this war.
President Emmanuel Macron of France, who was at the White House earlier in the week and who gently corrected president Trump about the funding for and the support for Ukraine, did have this to say after that dustup at the Oval Office.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMMANUEL MACRON, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE (through translator): There is an aggressor and that is Russia. There are people attacked who are from Ukraine.
We were all right to help Ukraine and sanction Russia three years ago and to continue to do so. And when I say we, I'm talking about the United States of America, the Europeans, the Canadians, the Japanese and many others. And that's it.
Therefore, we must thank everyone who has helped and we must help those who, from the beginning, have been fighting, because they fight for their dignity, for their independence, for their children and for the security of Europe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADOWO: That is the sentiment you are hearing from Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Denmark, France, Sweden, Germany, all of these leaders offering their unwavering support for Ukraine.
And President Zelenskyy also pointing out that this war was started by Russia, not by Ukraine, as they try to figure out a way out that keeps Ukraine safe and does not antagonize president Trump in the White House any further. Kim.
BRUNHUBER: And, Larry, I understand there is a meeting between European leaders Sunday. There have also been calls for an E.U.-U.S. summit over Ukraine.
What are we expecting?
MADOWO: We're expecting President Zelenskyy to attend that summit on Sunday. He's actually currently on his way to the U.K. Prime minister Keir Starmer is holding that. He has invited the leaders of Germany and France and Turkiye.
And after meeting with president Trump, he invited eight more leaders. So we're expecting more than 12 different world leaders. The leaders of the European Commission and Council to be at this crucial meeting as Keir Starmer tries to be a bridge, a peacemaker between Kyiv and Washington, between Europe and Washington.
And the big ask here is to try and get some security guarantees for Ukraine. That's what President Zelenskyy was trying to ask for in his Oval Office meeting, which didn't go according to plan. That's why that rare earth minerals deal eventually didn't get signed
and he was kicked out of the White House with his team. So that is the Europeans and Ukraine meeting on their own.
But the Italian prime minister, Giorgia Meloni, who's an ally of president Trump, has traditionally been a supporter, also did offer support for Ukraine. And she said this, any division, does make them weaker. She said every division of the West makes us all weaker and favors those who would like to see the decline of our civilization.
She added that an immediate summit between the United States, European states and allies is needed to talk frankly about how we intend to face today's great challenges, starting with Ukraine, which we have defended together in recent years and those that we will be called upon to face in the future. So you see this shock across Europe.
This began actually about two weeks ago with JD Vance at the Munich Security Conference, essentially attacking European democracy, which turned (ph) leaders then. And he was also the one that kind of laid the first salvo at the Oval Office meeting by asking President Zelenskyy to be more grateful than he has been. Kim.
BRUNHUBER: Yes, so many repercussions for this. Larry Madowo. Thank you so much. Live in Paris. Appreciate it.
Well, U.S. lawmakers were quick to react to the diplomatic clash with the White House and their responses largely fell along party lines.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. SETH MOULTON (D-MA): The president of the United States is a coward who is Vladimir Putin's puppet.
The vice president of the United States is a rogue and a coward, who is Donald Trump's puppet.
REP. MICHAEL LAWLER (R-NY): And I think what president Trump is trying to do is bring the conflict to a resolution.
SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA): If the rug is pulled out and Putin becomes the big winner in a forced ceasefire, not only that disaster for Ukraine but if anybody believes that Putin will stop at Ukraine, that he doesn't have in his eyes the Baltic states, Poland and others, they are not students of history.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): What I saw in the Oval Office was disrespectful and I don't know if we can ever do business with Zelenskyy again. He either needs to resign and send somebody over that we can do business with or he needs to change.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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BRUNHUBER (voice-over): So as the political drama played out in the U.S., Ukraine took more drone fire from Russia. Air raid sirens were activated in Kyiv Friday night, while one person was killed and another one injured in Odessa. Ukraine's second largest city, Kharkiv, was also hit. Officials say drones hit a medical facility and started a fire.
Dozens of Ukrainians have been killed in Russian attacks since Trump's recent phone call with Russian president Vladimir Putin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: All right. For more analysis, we're joined by Mike Ryan, a retired major general of the Australian army. He's also the author of the book, "The War in Ukraine: Strategy and Adaptation under Fire."
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And he's in Brisbane, Australia.
Thank you so much for being here with us. So just to start off, your reaction to that explosive meeting and all the fallout that we've been seeing.
MAJ. GEN. MICK RYAN (RET.), AUSTRALIAN ARMY: Yes. Good day, Kim. I mean, it was an awful look and it was an awful meeting for Ukraine in particular. But for the transatlantic alliance overall, it's been a terrible day.
And frankly, all of America's friends and allies are in shock and are just looking at their relationship at the moment, wondering where we go to from here. Probably some cool heads are required for the next 24 hours before anyone makes any decisions.
BRUNHUBER: Yes, absolutely. You spoke of allies. I want to play a clip from president Trump after that meeting. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I want it to end immediately. I want a ceasefire now. He says, oh, I don't want a ceasefire. Well, all of a sudden he's a big shot because he has the U.S. on his side. Either we're going to end it or let him fight it out. And if he fights it out, it's not going to be pretty. Because without it, without us, he doesn't win.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: So European leaders have largely rallied around Zelenskyy. They've promised him that Ukraine will never walk alone. But they are coming to the realization, as you said, that they might have to go it alone without the U.S.
So militarily, I mean, surely they can't shoulder the burden, can they, on the battlefield?
Trump said without us, he doesn't win.
Is the president right? RYAN: Well, without U.S. support, it would be much, much harder for Ukraine. The president of Ukraine has said that himself in the last month. I don't think it is the end of the war or Russia will automatically win.
But you would have to step up very quickly with a lot more military and economic assistance to be able to help Ukraine if the U.S. was to pull out its aid.
BRUNHUBER: So the war looks as though it will potentially continue for even longer than it might have, let's say, yesterday. Looking at the big picture, the war now entering its fourth year, it settled into a kind of a stalemate. And that's due in part to technology, which is something I know you've been studying.
Ukraine seems to have the edge when it when it came to the innovative use of technology, especially early on.
But how and when did that change?
RYAN: Well, the Ukrainians are still very good at bottom up innovation and battlefield innovation. Unfortunately, the Russians are fast followers and they're able to industrialize innovation at a scale. The Ukrainians aren't able to.
That has led to the current situation we've got. And the unfortunate circumstance we find ourselves now is that, whilst everyone has been looking for a breakthrough on the battlefield, president Putin has now achieved one in the political environment.
BRUNHUBER: Yes, absolutely. And so when we're looking at that use of technology, I mean, take us through exactly what we're talking about in terms of drones and other technology and whether Ukraine, you think, can potentially regain that edge.
Or does this all ultimately come down to who can churn out the most heavy weaponry, the conventional weaponry and send the most soldiers to the front lines?
RYAN: Yes, unfortunately, there's no silver bullet, no single technology. But the changes we've seen on the battlefield are due to a convergence of drones, increased visibility of what combatants are doing, not just through drones but through civil sensors.
And then the digital capacity to share that with just about every participant on the battlefield, that is a very different environment, even from just a few years ago.
But at the end of the day, on top of that, you still need to be able to produce more than the adversary. And that's where the Ukrainians are having a challenge, both in industrial production and in manpower.
BRUNHUBER: Yes, a challenge that seems to only grow now with this break with the U.S. politically. We'll have to leave it there. But always appreciate your analysis. Mick Ryan, thank you so much.
RYAN: Thank you.
BRUNHUBER: Well, Russia is hardly containing its pleasure after seeing the public clash between the U.S. and Ukrainian presidents. Still ahead, we'll have reaction from Moscow, including a dig at President Zelenskyy by Russia's former president.
And after a setback at the hospital, a positive development for Pope Francis. We will be live in Rome with the latest on his condition. That's coming up. Please stay with us.
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BRUNHUBER: A Kurdish militia group has declared an immediate ceasefire with Turkiye two days after its jailed leader called on fighters to lay down their weapons and dissolve the group. The Kurdistan Workers Party, also known as the PKK, says it will comply with and implement their leaders' call for peace, effective today.
If accepted by the Turkish government, the ceasefire could mark the end of a decades-long conflict that has left at least 40,000 people dead and rippled across borders, namely Syria and Iraq.
Kurds are the largest minority group in Turkiye, with one rights group estimating they make up between 15 percent and 20 percent of the population.
The Vatican says Pope Francis is resting this morning after a peaceful night at the hospital. That comes a day after he had a sudden respiratory episode and required noninvasive mechanical ventilation. Let's get more now from CNN's Barbie Nadeau and she joins us live from Rome.
So Barbie, we got our usual update.
What's the latest from the Vatican on the pope's health?
BARBIE NADEAU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, it's kind of a copy and paste sort of situation. Every morning we get this, he rested well and he -- or he had the night, you know, passed peacefully and he rested well.
But what we really are paying attention to is the more detailed health bulletin that comes in the evening. And last evening was when we found out about this bronchial spasm attack that led to sort of a vomiting fit, that he then had to be aspirated from his lungs.
And, of course, everyone's worried if that's going to cause another infection or a secondary infection, if that that vomit in the lungs and the situation there. So people are watching and waiting. We were told by the Vatican press office that it will take 24-48 hours, essentially, before we really know the outcome of that and how he's doing.
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But he passed the night peacefully. He, you know, resting this morning. Today, of course, being Saturday, he probably wouldn't be doing work as he has been doing in recent days. Kim.
BRUNHUBER: All right. And Barbie, obviously, the pope has a world of well-wishers. So take us through the reaction from Catholics.
NADEAU: Yes. You know, right here outside Gemelli Hospital behind me, there's a statue of John Paul II, the pope, who spent many, many, you know, evenings here in this hospital.
There are people right now carrying out prayers. You can see priests and nuns down there that are praying. We see in St. Peter's Square every night these prayer services, led by various cardinals, the rosary services. And we we've heard from a few of these well-wishers, let's listen to what one of them had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I pray every night for him, for his health, because we need him. Not only we Italians but the world. The whole world needs him because he is a man of peace and the world needs peace.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Apart from his being a pope, he's also human. So, well, you don't wish for someone to be ill. So we are praying for him to get well soon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NADEAU: And you know, Kim, this is an incredibly important week coming up this coming week because Ash Wednesday on Wednesday would normally be when the pope leads the procession in a church in Rome, kicking off the Lent season.
Especially important this year because it's a holy jubilee year and we're expecting thousands of pilgrims, religious pilgrims, to come to Rome to take part in these jubilee celebrations, especially during the Lenten season.
And, you know, with the pope in the hospital, of course, you've got more people than normal here, obviously wishing him well and trying to wish him well in person. And these prayer services that are being held at night are growing in numbers every night.
It's a very kind of solemn time here in Rome. Everybody worried about it, not just the Catholics but Romans, too, very worried about the health of the holy father.
BRUNHUBER: I can imagine. Barbie Nadeau in Rome. Thanks so much.
The measles outbreak in West Texas has grown to 146 confirmed cases. The Texas Department of Health Services says most cases are children between the ages of 5 and 17 but around 10 percent are infants; 20 patients have been hospitalized.
Now the update comes just days after the first reported death in the outbreak. The school-aged child wasn't vaccinated. It's the first measles death in the U.S. in a decade. Since the virus is highly contagious, officials expect the outbreak to spread among unvaccinated communities.
Mass government layoffs are gripping Washington and adversaries like Russia and China may see the situation as an opportunity. But more on that later in the program. Please stay with us.
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BRUNHUBER: Welcome back to all of you watching us around the world. I'm Kim Brunhuber. This is CNN NEWSROOM.
There is strong reaction today to what turned into a diplomatic disaster at the White House on Friday.
President Donald Trump and vice president JD Vance berated Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy. It happened in front of news cameras for all the world to see. Now some Republicans are calling on President Zelenskyy to apologize, even after the Ukrainian president says he doesn't think he did anything wrong.
Republican senator Lindsey Graham has been to Ukraine a number of times during the war and says he's been one of the country's strongest supporters. But he had strong words for President Zelenskyy. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAHAM: He was terrible at Munich, Zelenskyy. And I think he has made it almost impossible to sell to the American people that he's a good investment. He either needs to resign and send somebody over that we can do business with or he needs to change.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: A short time later, during an interview with FOX News, Zelenskyy responded to those comments. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: Americans vote for American president. Each European country vote for their president and only Ukraine. And with all respect to Lindsey, if I can say, Lindsey, we know each other. Yes. And only Ukrainians.
BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Democrats have had their president. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: Well, the clash in the White House fell on very receptive ears in Russia. Matthew Chance has more from Moscow.
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MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, privately, Russian officials tell me they were gobsmacked by the spectacle that unfolded in the Oval Office.
The idea that national leaders of both the United States and Ukraine would engage in such a public slinging match in front of the cameras, was, I suppose, just as shocking here in Russia as everywhere else.
Publicly, though, Russian official reaction has been supportive of the Trump White House, that President Zelenskyy alone behaved badly and was disrespectful.
How Trump and Vance restrained themselves and didn't slap him is a miracle of endurance. That's a comment from Maria Zakharova, the Russian foreign ministry spokeswoman.
The former Russian president and close Putin ally, Dmitry Medvedev, went further.
"The insolent pig finally got a slapdown in the Oval Office," he said. "The Kyiv regime is indeed gambling with World War III."
But behind those expressions of outrage, the Kremlin is quietly sitting back and watching with glee as its rivals unravel. Firstly, the humiliation of Zelenskyy at the hand of the U.S. president, his most important patron, is a clear victory for the Kremlin. The spat has plunged crucial U.S. military support for Ukraine into serious doubt. Meanwhile, Washington now seems closer to Moscow on the question of Ukraine than its European allies, a division that fulfills a long standing Kremlin objective of splitting Western unity. Historic, is how one Kremlin dealmaker and envoy, Kirill Dmitriev, described the chaotic scenes in the White House.
And he may be right. For better or worse, history is indeed likely to judge the historic events of the day -- Matthew Chance, CNN, Moscow.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BRUNHUBER: All right. For more, I want to bring in Olga Tokarczuk, who's an academy associate at Chatham House Ukraine Forum and she joins us live from London.
Thanks so much for being here with us. So you heard that report there. There's certainly, there's plenty of glee in Moscow. I mean, for Ukrainians, that meeting between the two presidents basically couldn't have gone any worse.
What did you make of it? OLGA TOKARCZUK, POLISH WRITER AND ACTIVIST: I would say that Ukrainians actually didn't have very high expectations of that meeting.
[04:35:00]
Considering all, you know, all the previous statements that were issued by Donald Trump and the U.S. officials just weeks before that, basically putting the blame on Ukraine for starting the war.
Donald Trump famously called President Zelenskyy a dictator. So I would say the expectations were already quite low. But obviously Ukraine needs U.S. help and Ukraine was going to Washington to sign minerals deal in exchange for some sort of continued U.S. support.
Whereas it still remains unclear what that support will be. And, you know, Donald Trump also refused to talk about any security guarantees to Ukraine. But, of course, you know, the course (ph), how that meeting went, was completely unexpected and shocking.
And it was shocking from the position of Ukrainians to watch, you know, how the Ukrainian president was scolded for, you know, demanding security guarantees for Ukraine, for his mistrust in negotiations with Russia, how, you know, he was kind of also told by Trump that, you know, he hates Putin.
Why is that so?
So, I think, you know, it was shocking as in we don't know the consequences what they will be. But it also -- Ukrainians also saw it that Zelenskyy had just no other option than to react the way he reacted. He was representing Ukrainian people there, who are fighting against, you know, big nuclear armed country for three years.
And it was just a matter of dignity, not silence and just nod to all the outrageous claims that were made there.
BRUNHUBER: Yes. OK. Let me let me ask you about that, because it may have been a matter of dignity in representing Ukraine. But you know, many are questioning whether that approach might have been wrong.
You know, they're questioning things like not wearing a suit and not being as deferential as we saw this week with other European leaders at the White House. And there are some in Ukraine, at least one MP that we heard from, questioning Zelenskyy's approach, saying, why antagonize Trump?
TOKARCZUK: Well, of course, you know, we can criticize the landscape but the fact he's not been wearing suits since the start of the war for three years and I don't think that should be a the focus of the attention. That's not the main issue here.
I'm not sure; you know, even if he was wearing a suit or was behaving in a different manner, maybe not reacting that emotionally, the treatment that he would have got would have been any different. There was a clear prejudice toward Zelenskyy on the behalf of the U.S.
president and the V.P. So I'm not sure that Zelenskyy actually could have done much to change that.
And the way also, the other European leaders were treated in the White House when they objected to Trump, when they disagreed, the reaction from Trump and it was completely different.
BRUNHUBER: Yes.
TOKARCZUK: And obviously it was not just Trump. There was also the V.P., Vance. And Zelenskyy was one of them, the person who's English is not, you know, it's not his native language.
So obviously there are things that Zelenskyy could have done differently. But I just think that the focus on Ukraine and on Zelenskyy here is something that is very remarkable and very different from the previous U.S. approach.
You know, there is no pressure on Russia. I can't imagine a similar conversation in similar tone happening on behalf of Trump with Vladimir Putin. And, you know, the kind of demand, the amount of pressure on Ukraine and demands for Ukraine to make concessions is what is remarkable, because no such things exist in respect to Russia.
BRUNHUBER: Yes, exactly. And it's remarkable as well that that he was saying that Zelenskyy doesn't want peace but Putin does. So let's look at where things stand here. I mean, Zelenskyy, in the wake of that debacle, said the relationship can be salvaged.
But some now feel this relationship with the Trump administration has gone past the breaking point and that Zelenskyy's position is basically untenable.
What do you think?
TOKARCZUK: I think it is a difficult situation but what is important is that Zelenskyy is not on his own. You know, he has the back of the Ukrainian people, who feel that, you know, their president was humiliated, was mistreated and blamed for the crimes that Russia committed, basically, and denied support.
And kind of, you know, everything that Ukraine has sacrificed in all the years has been completely overlooked. And also, he was accused of being ungrateful, which is not the case, because he and the Ukrainian people thanked repeatedly the U.S. government and the American people for their support.
So Zelenskyy has the back of his people. He still has the back of Europe, which is very important. European leaders rushed, you know, to tweet and to make statements in support of Ukrainian President Zelenskyy after this meeting at the White House yesterday.
And he is flying to London now as we speak and there will be a meeting of European leaders, chaired by prime minister Keir Starmer. So hopefully, you know, Europe will be able to step in and to step up its support for Ukraine. It will be difficult to replace the U.S.
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Because the U.S. has some critical, some critical pieces of assistance that Europe doesn't have, like Patriot missiles, like intelligence that Ukrainian military had.
But you know, Zelenskyy is not alone. And also I think in the U.S. not everybody agrees with this change of tone and the change of approach that the administration had on Ukraine. So I'm not sure this is over yet. I think there will be continuation. And there is still hope for, you know, that the relations can be restored.
BRUNHUBER: Yes. Still hope. We'll see what consequences this has in the next days and weeks. Olga Tokarczuk with Chatham House in London, Thank you so much.
TOKARCZUK: Thank you.
BRUNHUBER: All right. After the break, the United States' weather agency grapples with terminations amid a worsening climate crisis with fire and tornado seasons approaching. We'll have more on that next. Please stay with us.
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BRUNHUBER: The Trump administration has terminated a $25 million contribution that would have gone toward supporting Ukraine's energy infrastructure. That's according to a source familiar with the cuts, which are part of the president's effort to cut nearly all foreign aid.
The money was set for the Ukraine Energy Support Fund. The country's energy grid has come under relentless Russian attacks throughout the course of the war. The cancellation occurred before the heated Friday meeting between U.S. president Donald Trump and Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
The termination was among thousands of foreign aid awards canceled in recent weeks. A group of nonprofits suing the Trump administration told the Supreme Court on Friday that the government's move to freeze nearly $2 billion in foreign aid has had a devastating impact on their work and puts lives at risk around the world.
They're urging the top court to keep the money flowing.
And the White House isn't sparing the national weather agency from layoffs. Sources say some 800 employees with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration have been terminated so far.
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Remaining workers are warning that, quote, "people will die without the life saving information the agency provides."
CNN's Allison Chinchar has more on NOAA's crucial work.
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ALLISON CHINCHAR, AMS METEOROLOGIST: The National Weather Service and NOAA provide a variety of critical data. And that includes the observed weather data that we get from surface stations, like weather stations on top of schools and businesses and buildings.
Ocean buoys and hurricane hunters are critical for getting information about tropical systems as well as hurricanes. But by far the most vital form of the observed data comes from weather balloons.
These are launched twice a day, every day across the entire country. And they not only provide what is taking place in the atmosphere at that moment but also that information gets then fed into the forecast model data.
And that really helps us with accurate forecasts. Now one of the concerning things about the weather balloons, specifically for Kotzebue, Alaska's, national weather service office, is that they are now indefinitely suspending weather balloon launches simply because they do not have the staffing.
Another thing that's concerning is the equipment maintenance and the upgrades. Every time a radar or computer breaks, they have to have somebody come out and fix them, just like they would if your home computer broke.
The problem is, it may end up taking longer to get these things fixed, because we don't have the staff to be able to get out quick enough.
The other thing, issuing weather forecasts. So all the things like winter storm warnings, tornado warnings, those aren't issued by the TV meteorologist. Those come from the National Weather Service.
Same thing with the hurricane forecast cones. Those specifically come from national weather service employees and the National Hurricane Center. And we have a lot of national weather service offices. There's more than 120 of them across the entire country.
Now one thing to note with the recent layoffs is that there's roughly a dozen managers of roughly 40 weather service offices that took the buyouts. The other concerning thing is many of them came from what we refer to as the central region.
Here's the concern. We are now headed into peak severe weather season. And most of that severe weather happens in the central region.
Another concerning thing is looking at advancements in technology. Behind me, this is the original forecast track of Hurricane Katrina back in 2005. If we were able to add in some of the advancements that research has been able to help with, this is what the current track would have looked like. You can see how it shrunk down in size, which has made it much more
accurate for folks back then to know where the storm was going to go. A more recent comparable event would have been Milton from last year. The black line here was the original forecast track. The red line was the actual track that Milton took.
You can see the landfall location was very close from the original track compared to where Milton ended up going.
The other thing, we are seeing more and more of these extreme weather events take place across the country, leading to billion dollar disasters. Take, for example, in the '80s, the '90s and the 2000s, we had $3 billion, $5 billion and $6 billion events respectively take place roughly every year.
Fast forward to the 2010s. We had 13, roughly the same number that the three decades combined had.
Then, from 2020 to 2024, we had 23 on average every year, which was more than the previous decade. The concern here is that more and more of these events taking place but we have less and less staff.
What implications and impacts that could mean to saving lives and buildings?
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BRUNHUBER: Well, it looks as though foreign adversaries are eager to exploit ongoing federal layoffs. U.S. intelligence officials say rivals like Russia and China are trying to recruit former national security employees.
Sources say Moscow and Beijing are targeting workers with security clearances who have been fired or think they will be looking for information about critical U.S. infrastructure and systems. At least two nations have already set up recruitment websites and are aggressively targeting workers on employment platform LinkedIn.
Multiple officials who spoke to CNN expressed frustration that the Trump administration seems to view security concerns as partisan sniping and not real warnings.
Well, fresh information comes to light as investigators work to build a timeline in the mysterious death of Gene Hackman and his wife. That story and more after the break. Stay with us.
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BRUNHUBER: More information has come to light in the investigation into the puzzling deaths of the legendary actor, Gene Hackman, and his wife, Betsy Arakawa. CNN's Julia Vargas Jones has the latest.
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JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN PRODUCER: New Mexico authorities revealing today that actor Gene Hackman was likely dead for nine days before he and his wife were found in their New Mexico home.
That is according to data from his pacemaker, which last recorded activity from his heart on February 17th, according to medical investigators working with New Mexico authorities on this case.
Timing has been an issue in this investigation, according to Santa Fe County sheriff Adam Mendoza (ph). He said that usually investigators work from the time a person was last seen and then build their working theories from there.
But because both Hackman and his wife were very private people and they didn't have any devices, recording devices like a Ring camera in their home that has made a new challenge for the investigators in that they're actually building what he called is a reverse timeline to crack this case.
That is why, in part, the toxicology report and the full autopsy will play such an important role in this investigation. Another item we were -- that we learned this afternoon is that both Hackman and Arakawa tested negative for carbon monoxide poisoning.
They are hoping that this report will help shed some light on what happened in those final moments of their lives, as neither of them had signs of external trauma in their bodies.
There are some theories that deputies laid out on a search warrant that was released earlier on Friday, where they described a variety of potential theories of what could have happened.
They found Hackman and Arakawa in separate rooms of their home. Arakawa was found in a bathroom lying on her side, with pills scattered around her.
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And Hackman was found in an area near the kitchen, near sunglasses and a cane. One of the deputies wrote in this warrant that that could be that both of them fell at separate times.
But at this time the sheriff said that foul play is not suspected in this case, although they are not ruling it out completely -- Julia Vargas Jones, CNN, Santa Fe, New Mexico.
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BRUNHUBER: U.S. federal regulators have cleared SpaceX to launch another test flight of its Starship spacecraft just weeks after the last one exploded 10 minutes after liftoff. The new test flight was planned for Friday but has been pushed back to Monday. January's explosion over the Atlantic caused flight disruptions and
scattered debris across the Caribbean. One environmental group says residents in the Turks and Caicos are still finding debris.
Well, it's Carnival time in Brazil. The celebration kicked off in Rio de Janeiro on Friday and annually attracts millions. Now one must-see element is the Carmelitas block party. Celebrants wear nuns' habits, some of them so scanty they'd never be allowed in any convent, obviously.
Participants cut loose with a little debauchery, singing, dancing and enjoying themselves before reality with the more solemn holy days of Lent.
All right, that wraps this hour of CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Kim Brunhuber. I'll be back with more news in just a moment. Please do stay with us.
