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Trump White House Deports Hundreds Of Migrants Despite Judge's Pause; Houthis Vow Retaliation After U.S. Strikes; "Tesla Takedown" Protests Appear Across The Country; Recession Anxieties Rise After Trump's Tariff Threats; New Episode Of "Twitter: Breaking The Bird" Tonight. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired March 16, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN ANCHOR: Despite a judge's ruling temporarily blocking the president from using a centuries' old law to speed up deportations. Planes carrying hundreds of Venezuelan gang members took off from Texas yesterday in route to El Salvador, which had agreed to take and imprison them in exchange for $6 million. But as those planes were mid-air, a U.S. judge ordered them to turn around. Instead, those planes continued on to El Salvador, where they landed this morning as you can see in this video posted by the president of that country.

CNN's Kevin Liptak is live in West Palm Beach near Mar-a-Lago. He picks up the story there.

And, Kevin, I understand the White House is responding to all of this tonight. What are they saying?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the White House saying tonight that there is no conflict between these deportation flights and the judge's ruling. And you're right, I think that timeline here is very important. President Trump actually signed this proclamation on Friday, invoking the Alien Enemies Act, this centuries old law that allows for swift deportations in this case of migrants associated with the Venezuelan gang Tren de Aragua.

The judge ruled midday yesterday that certain individuals, five individuals, could not be deported as part of this, and it wasn't until later yesterday evening that he expanded that order to include all migrants for whom this could potentially apply. At that point, the White House says that these flights had already left, and in a new statement this evening, the White House press secretary, Karoline Leavitt, says this.

"The administration did not refuse to comply with the court order. The order, which had no lawful basis, was issued after terrorist Tren de Aragua aliens had already been removed from U.S. territory. The written order and the administration's actions do not conflict."

And I think it's notable there that she said the written order because the judge from the bench said that these planes would need to turn around if they had already left, but it was not actually included in the order that he wrote. Karoline Leavitt goes on to say, "Moreover, as the Supreme Court has repeatedly made clear, federal courts generally have no jurisdiction over the president's conduct of foreign affairs, his authorities under the Alien Enemies Act and his core Article Two powers to remove foreign alien terrorists from the U.S. soil and repel a declared invasion."

And Leavitt concludes by saying a single judge in a single city cannot direct the movements of an aircraft carrier full of foreign alien terrorists who are physically expelled from U.S. soil. So you see the White House really digging in to this act that they carried out overnight, saying that it did not conflict with the judge said. You also saw the president of El Salvador essentially mocking this judge, tweeting, "Oops, too late," with the screenshot of the judge's order. You've also seen administration officials retweet that.

So it all sort of culminates in this standoff essentially between what this court did and what the administration did. And I think it just goes to show that this administration is willing to test the bounds of executive authority and of legal authority to speed up these deportations. We know President Trump, behind the scenes, has been angry at how quickly these deportations have been going.

He doesn't think that these are happening quickly enough. And I think it's almost certain that this will ultimately end up at the Supreme Court as a test of the president's executive authority -- Jessica.

DEAN: All right. Kevin Liptak, thank you so much for that reporting.

And let's dig a little deeper into this. Let's bring in CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig for more on this.

And Elie, the judge's directive to turn the planes around was not part of his written order. That seems to be kind of the gray area here. The flights were already mid-air when he said this. How do you interpret it?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, that's splitting the hair quite finely, Jessica. Look, there are important details that we don't know yet that we need to know, which is specifically when with respect to the judge's order. And by the way, when the judge gives an order from the bench, that's an order. When he later issues a written opinion, that memorializes it. But the order is in place from when the judge actually declares it from the bench.

But the big question here is where were these flights with respect to when the order was given? Were they still grounded in the United States? If they took off after the order, that's a major problem. That's defiance. Had they already landed overseas? If so, that's not defiance. Now were they mid-flight? Now we're going to get into a gray area. Could the judge have ordered them to turn around mid-flight while they had already left U.S. territory?

There's at least some gray area there. There's at least a fig leaf for the administration to use that to say we did not openly defy the judge's order, but we need to figure out these facts before we can draw grand conclusions. DEAN: And the planes appear to have landed this morning in El

Salvador. If they were over international waters, and I hear you, we're just going to have to figure out the exact timeline here. But if they were over international waters when this order came down, what does that mean?

[18:05:04]

HONIG: Well, so that's a tricky legal question. On the one hand, generally speaking, U.S. district court judges are trial level judges. All federal judges in the United States do not have jurisdiction to order things to happen overseas or outside of U.S. territory. On the other hand, ICE, immigration enforcement, is located here in the United States, so the judge would have jurisdiction over ICE itself. So that in itself is a dicey question, as you can see.

DEAN: Yes. All right, Elie Honig, thank you for joining us. We really appreciate that analysis as always.

HONIG: Thanks, Jess.

DEAN: Yes, thank you.

We are joined now by senior contributor for Axios, Margaret Talev, and senior correspondent for "The Hill," Amie Parnes.

It's great to see both of you.

Margaret, I want to start first with you and what something that Kevin Liptak just said, which is with these deportations that we saw last night and what kind of transpired, while there's other things to sort out about exact details, it is clear that this administration, and this is just one example, continues to see just how far they can push the bounds of executive action.

MARGARET TALEV, SENIOR CONTRIBUTOR, AXIOS: Well, Jessica, I think that's right. This is clearly a test case. And it's not the most sympathetic group. These are alleged Venezuelan gang members. So you're probably not going to have millions of Americans, you know, rushing to say, these are people that we need to take care of, although I'll say this process happened so quickly, it's not even clear how the administration was able to verify the gang affiliations of everyone involved.

So it's another thing to put in the pile of what Elie is talking about, things that -- facts that need to be determined in this case. But there are several elements that are tests of powers invoking this centuries old wartime powers act anyhow by saying that when there are problems with, you know, gangs or drug wars or unbridled immigration, that that constitutes a wartime situation. So that's one question.

The other is, does the president have to listen to a district judge in a case like this? And, you know, the list sort of goes on and on, and it does raise questions about whether President Trump and his team are going to follow judge's orders and whether the Supreme Court will act as a guardrail on moves that push and test and redefine the limits of presidential power. So this could have much bigger implications than just what happens to these couple of hundred Venezuelans who have now been deported.

DEAN: Yes. And, Amie, as Elie was kind of laying out there before we came to you all, this is legally complicated. There appears to be a lot of questions that still need to be asked or answered, rather. As Margaret noted, this isn't some super sympathetic group of individuals as members of, you know, gang members of a very violent gang.

Do you think that the Trump administration was counting on all of those factors together for this particular case?

AMIE PARNES, SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, THE HILL: I think they were, Jessica. But I also think that they are looking, as you said, to push the bounds and they have no problem doing this. This is a test case in a lot of ways. But it also shows this is something that President Trump campaigned on. He talked about it a lot. He talked about immigration and these criminals in the country. He feels like he has a mandate to do all of these things and so I think he's going to continue.

You know, when I talk to Republicans about this, they're proud of what he's done. Administration officials are, too. And you can kind of hear that in their rhetoric today. But they're going to keep doing this and they don't see a problem with it.

DEAN: And I want to talk -- so obviously this is one example of what's going on right now. But I do want to talk broadly about how the country, a couple of months into this new administration is metabolizing what's happening, how they're feeling about all of it.

Margaret, I know you have some reporting from Axios on Michigan swing voters, and we have a clip from this focus group that Axios conducted. I want to play that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know they're saying that inflation is down, but it's not down. I mean, we feel it at the gas pump and the grocery stores and, you know, just in general. And interest rates are high.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Regardless of what they say I'm leaving a $200 grocery trip with like a few things in my cart.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're talking about profits for corporations and not around the American people and how -- and what they're going through.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand all, you know, that they -- that you just said, but it don't seem like it's trickled down to us yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Margaret, what was your takeaway from hearing from these Michigan swing voters? TALEV: This is a pretty remarkable couple of focus groups that were

conducted last week by our partners at Engagious and Sago. And these are voters in Michigan who previously voted for Joe Biden in 2020 and then last November voted for Donald Trump.

[18:10:08]

So they just voted for Donald Trump like a few months ago. But they -- 10 out of the 13 folks that we talked to are now disapproving of his conduct in his opening months in office. It's a pretty stunning, sort of change of sentiment about things, but it is primarily because of the economy. And when I say the economy, I mean, they are personally experiencing it. They are a battleground state, heavily tied to the auto industry that, of course, shares a border with, drum roll, Canada.

And so the tariffs and concerns about the implications of those tariffs are driving a lot of their concerns a lot because most of them said they voted for him because they wanted more money in their pocketbooks. And now they're afraid that they're going to have less money. And that one woman had just been furloughed from her auto industry job. Another woman's small business depends heavily on auto industry customers, and so she's now concerned.

There was also some real concern about President Trump's unilateral actions among this group. And again, I want to emphasize this is not the base. These are not core base voters. These are swing voters who have toggled between Joe Biden and Donald Trump in recent years, but they don't like a lot of his unilateral acts, his moves to fire federal workers, his moves to kind of do what he wants and let the courts figure it out later.

They're saying they want Congress, both Republicans and Democrats in Congress, to push back. The one thing that I will say that stood out, though, is asked whether if they could do it all over again, would they vote for Kamala Harris? Only one out of those 10 said they would choose Harris. So they are not loving the Democratic Party right now either. But this isn't what they say they thought they were getting from President Trump. And I think it bears watching.

DEAN: Yes, for sure. And Amie, I think that's -- that is a point I also I would love to hear you talk about, which is this, the fact that they still wouldn't change their vote for Kamala Harris. We have this new CNN polling showing Americans' views of Democrats at an all-time low. Obviously, we saw what happened with Chuck Schumer and that funding bill. What are you hearing from your sources about this?

PARNES: I mean, it's chaotic, and it's why Democrats can't really talk about how much Trump is fumbling the economy in these moments because they are fighting amongst themselves. They are trying to find a message. They are trying to, you know, reinvent their ground game and get back into states and talk to voters again. But all of these things are happening together. And so they're not able to really unify right now.

And obviously, the battle between Schumer and Jeffries isn't helping. I mean, the party is in chaos right now. And every Democrat I speak to admits as much. So I think they are going to have to try to rally around, first find a leader who they can rally behind. I think that's up in the air. You're seeing a lot of confusion about, you know, a lot of people can't trust Chuck Schumer. They sort of back the House leader, Jeffries, but they don't know what to make of him either.

They're kind of lost in terms of a leader. So I think all of this is going to have to find its way in the next couple of months. And Democrats I speak to say if we're still having this conversation six months from now, we're in trouble. So they're trying to reevaluate right now.

DEAN: All right. More to come on that front, for sure. Margaret Talev and Amie Parnes, thanks to both of you. Really appreciate it.

And just a shout-out there for Amie's new book, "Fight Inside the Wildest Battle for the White House." It's out next month.

Thanks to both of you.

Still ahead, President Trump warning Iran after striking Iranian- backed Houthi rebels in Yemen, killing 31 people. This is as one top adviser says, quote, "all options are on the table." We'll dig into what that means.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:18:42]

DEAN: Yemen's Houthi rebels are tonight fighting back against a series of strikes by the U.S. The rebel group claims to have launched 18 missiles and drones at the USS Harry Truman in the northern Red Sea. Two U.S. officials telling CNN there were no injuries or damage to the American aircraft carrier.

This is after the U.S. launched a sustained military attack taking out multiple Houthi leaders. That's according to a top Trump adviser.

Joining us now, former NATO Supreme Allied commander, General Wesley Clark.

Good to see you as always. Thanks for being here with us. If these U.S. strikes were meant as a deterrent, how effective do you think it's been and will be?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET), FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER: Well, it doesn't sound like they were meant as a deterrent actually when President Trump says decisive. That's what he should be saying. Should be giving the military the instructions to take the threat out, take it out. So the way you would do it is you tell a commander in the Fifth Fleet and Central Command, what's it going to take to eliminate the threat? Come back and brief us, and then what are the costs and the risks? And then you give them the go ahead.

You don't go tit-for-tat like this because tit-for-tat, they'll go forever on you. That's not what you want. It's not opening up the Red Sea. It's the way that we failed under the Biden administration leadership since November of 2023 despite their talk about, oh, we really handled the Houthis.

[18:20:06]

They didn't handle the Houthis. So you've got to really go after this in a decisive way. It means striking, assessing, restriking, reassessing, restriking until you set up a tempo of operations with sufficient effect that they don't, quote, "retaliate," they just cease operation.

DEAN: And so if I'm understanding you correctly, it sounds like you're saying we should anticipate that they will, if they're trying to take decisive action, that they will now reassess and potentially strike again the U.S.

CLARK: I hope so.

DEAN: Yes. What -- go ahead.

CLARK: That has to be done on -- Jessica, they're not going to relent. They like what they're doing. They're getting support from Iran. They're getting some reinforcement covertly and from other like-minded groups in the region. They think of themselves as real heroes. And the more we strike and then wait, the smarter they get, the stronger they get, because they're going through a learning process.

So they look at and say, well, why do they strike here? Or why do the Americans do this? How can we keep them from doing this the next time? What's the right way to conceal it? What do they listen to? How do they get our -- this information on us? So they're learning from us. We don't want that learning cycle. We want to stop this now.

DEAN: And we heard from the Trump National Security adviser, Mike Waltz, he says these strikes were also a warning to Iran. I want to play a clip from him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE WALTZ, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: All options are always on the table with the president. But Iran needs to hear him loud and clear. It is completely unacceptable and it will be stopped. The level of support that they've been providing the Houthis, President Trump is coming in with overwhelming force. We will take -- we will hold not only the Houthis accountable, but we're going to hold Iran, their backers, accountable as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: And you heard there, Waltz is not ruling out military options. What do you think? How do you expect that to play out? What would it take for the U.S. to take that step?

CLARK: Well, I think the first thing is to interrupt the supply line that's coming out of Iran to the Houthis. We know that they're shipping stuff in there. The missiles are being shipped. Maybe some of the drones are put together locally based on other stuff that's been moved in. But as far as we know Yemen doesn't have a great electronics industry. It doesn't have a large avionics industry. It doesn't have the technology to do these things.

This is imported hardware. They're smart. They've been at it for a while. But let's cut the supply link. We've seen and had public reports of these ships that are coming in. They've never been touched by the Biden administration. They never took action against them. Why not? So let's do that. That's the minimum that needs to be done. And then you got to go back up the supply chain and say, OK, where did this ship come from, in Iran? Was it launched in from the Arabian Sea? Was it launched out of the Gulf? And if so, that's the next target. You work it right back up the supply chain until Iran gets the message, no more.

DEAN: All right. General Wesley Clark, as always, thank you for that analysis. We appreciate it.

CLARK: Thank you, Jessica.

DEAN: Still ahead, more protests at Tesla dealerships as some Americans say they are furious over government cuts led by a billionaire they didn't vote for.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's just going through with a sledgehammer and just tearing everything down. And that is not OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:28:05]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): Elon Musk kind of turned out to be an asshole. And I don't want to be driving the car built and designed by an asshole. So looking forward to my new ride.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: That is Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona on social media. He later showed off a new Chevy Tahoe. Other Americans have a similar message for Tesla's chief Elon Musk, as protests have popped up across the country outside Tesla showrooms with people looking to show their outrage about his leading massive government job cuts.

Julia Vargas Jones has the latest on this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sell your car. Don't buy Tesla.

JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: At Tesla dealerships from coast to coast, growing signs of discontent.

PROTESTERS: Elon Musk has got to go.

VARGAS JONES: The target, the world's richest man and Tesla CEO Elon Musk.

ELON MUSK, TESLA CEO: This is the chainsaw for bureaucracy.

VARGAS JONES: Outraged by Musk's dismantling of the federal government, protesters are taking it out on his business.

PROTESTERS: Hey, ho, ho, Elon Musk has got to go.

VARGAS JONES: What's your sign say?

MARK NAY, PROTESTING TESLA: It says two things. It says honk if you hate fascists and boycott Tesla Swasticars.

VARGAS JONES: Why should people boycott Tesla?

NAY: Because Elon Musk is destroying our government. Nobody elected him.

TAMMY SILVER, PROTEST CO-ORGANIZER: Elon Musk's wealth is based on the value of Tesla stock. Well, the value of Tesla stock is based on air and dreams.

SHARON DELUGACH, PROTESTING TESLA: So we're sort of hitting him in the wallet, getting him where it hurts even though, you know, he's richer than God. So it's hurting his reputation. I really believe it's hurting his reputation worldwide.

VARGAS JONES (voice-over): Anti-Elon bumper stickers popping up, including these sold on Amazon marketed specifically to Tesla owners. And since December, Tesla stock has lost nearly half its value.

[18:30:03]

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They have one, which is $35,000 which is pretty low.

VARGAS JONES: President Trump using the White House as a Tesla showroom in an attempt to reverse that trend. And on Friday, Attorney General Pam Bondi issuing a clear warning on FOX Business.

PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL: If you're going to touch a Tesla, go to a dealership, do anything, you better watch out because we're coming after you.

VARGAS JONES: In recent weeks, Teslas were engulfed by a fire in Seattle, a charging station torched in Massachusetts, and a Molotov cocktail was thrown to a dealership in Oregon after shots were fired at cars there.

Not the scene at this Southern California protest. Part of dozens nationwide. SILVER: This is a joyous, festive protest and nonviolence, and I urge

people, like-minded people, to do this at every Tesla dealership in the country.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: And that was Julia Vargas Jones with that report. Thanks for that.

CNN media analyst and Axios media correspondent Sara Fischer is joining us now.

Sara, good to see you. A new NBC News poll shows most Americans, 51 percent, see Elon Musk negatively, 39 percent seeing him positively. You look at Julia's piece there, his brand and his company are taking some hits, and it's happening day after day.

Do you think he has any second thoughts about this?

SARA FISCHER, CNN MEDIA ANALYST: No, because the big portion of why his brand is taking a hit financially has very little to do with what you're seeing in terms of these protests. There are some analysts that say these protests could make buyers in the U.S. concerned about whether to buy a car because they don't want to be struck with vandalism of their car if they were to buy it. But the vast majority of losses to the Tesla stock can be attributed to just increased EV rivals out of China.

Also, production of Chinese EVs in Europe that have forced some of his sales to take a hit there. So I don't think that this is what's causing his business to tank. Reputationally, yes, of course he's being impacted by this. I think a lot of Americans are frustrated that somebody that they did not vote for has this much power over the U.S. government, but that has never been something that's motivated Elon Musk to walk away from big projects before.

I don't think that people being frustrated with Elon Musk or his unfavorability rating is going to get Elon Musk to quit working with DOGE and with President Trump at the White House. What I do think could motivate Elon Musk to take a step back is if he gets bored or his interests diverse, you know, diverge. You know, Elon Musk, he's got so many different business interests, whether it's Tesla or SpaceX or Neuralink or Grok or X, if he feels like he's over this government thing that I feel like could get him to step out. But otherwise, I don't think this kind of ruckus is going to have any impact on him.

DEAN: And -- but in terms of like, let's take Tesla for a second, let's stick with that for just a minute. In terms of stockholders, the people who are working there, is there any frustration among those that they want him to really step back in as a more active leader of that company?

FISCHER: Oh, for sure, Jessica. Like when he took over Twitter, now X, there were shareholder lawsuits that said, we don't want a part time CEO. And so he vowed to bring in a full time CEO. He eventually did with Linda Yaccarino. And that quelled some of the investor frustration. So I do think he's going to face that kind of pressure. At the same time, if you're a shareholder in one of these companies, you can't help but deny that it helps that your CEO, that your founder is in there, in government, helping to boost some of these government contracts.

You think about what the FCC chairman Brendan Carr has said about, you know, giving contracts to Starlink, Elon Musk's space internet company. So while it's problematic because he's not fully focused on these companies, there are some strategic benefits in terms of government contracts, access, ease of regulatory situations, even marketing, if I'm being honest. I mean, Donald Trump using the White House as a showroom for Tesla, as frustrated as you are, if you're a Tesla shareholder, you can't help but admit that that's probably a good thing in some ways for reaching out to some conservatives who have long held negative positions on electric vehicles.

So I think shareholders for now are pretty quiet about the Elon Musk distraction thing. Where they are not super excited is about EV sales being impacted by rivals, Chinese rivals in Europe. That's something that they're going to hold Elon Musk's feet to the fire for.

DEAN: Yes, you make such a great point, which it's kind of -- as we're seeing again and again all kind of upside down, conservatives that were kind of reticent to accept EV cars. Now pro-Tesla. Conservatives who are liberals who loved them, now protesting them, More of, you know, probably just going to see more of that across the spectrum.

Sara Fischer, always good to see you. Thank you so much.

FISCHER: Thank you.

DEAN: Still ahead, Trump's secretary of the Treasury saying there are no guarantees when it comes to the possibility of a recession. We're going to talk to an expert about how to prepare your finances, just in case.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

[18:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

STEVE LIESMAN, CNBC BUSINESS REPORTER: I'm going to say this at risk of my job, Kelly. But what President Trump is doing is insane. It is absolutely insane. It is about the eighth reason we've had for the tariffs. And now he's saying he's putting 50 percent tariffs on Canada unless they agree to become the 51st state. That is insane.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: That was CNBC reporter Steve Liesman this week responding to President Trump's on again, off again tariff threats, announcing steep tariffs abruptly on products like Canadian steel, aluminum and liquor, and then occasionally making exceptions in one case for cars.

[18:40:10] Amid the announcements, the stock market suffered three weeks of losses, but the Treasury secretary says he's not worried about the short-term choppiness in stocks.

Joining us now, author and personal finance columnist for the "Washington Post," Michelle Singletary.

Michelle, good to see you. Thanks for being here. We did hear from --

Thank you for having me.

DEAN: Yes. We did hear from the Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent this morning. I want to listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: I say that one week does not the market make. As Warren Buffett says, over the short term, the market is a voting machine. Over the long term, it's a weighing machine. I'm not worried about the markets. Over the long term if we put good tax policy in place, deregulation and energy security, the markets will do great.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: So there was that, Michelle. I also think what was important to pair with that is he was asked about the potential of a recession. And he said there's no guarantees. It's very much what we've heard from President Trump as well. What are your thoughts on all of that?

MICHELLE SINGLETARY, PERSONAL FINANCE COLUMNIST, THE WASHINGTON POST: I think it's easy for billionaires to say that people shouldn't be scared. They lose a little bit. They still eat very well and live very well. I think the average American sees a 10 percent drop in their portfolio, and they panic, and they panic sell. And that is my concern. Less about the politics, but more about the everyday person who is trying to save for their retirement or send their kid to college, get so worried that they pull back.

He is right that you can't base the market on short term ups and downs, but we're talking about real people with real emotions who act on those feelings, and so they need to take that into account when they make these chaotic decisions.

DEAN: And so what are you advising people right now?

SINGLETARY: So depending on where you are in life, if you're retired, you're scared for sure. But don't take everything out. You're not going to have to live on all that money this year. So take out what you need. You may have to pull back on your withdrawal rate a little bit, but recognize that if you're retired into your 60s, you're just 60, you could have another 20 or 30 years. And that money has to stay for growth.

If you're in it for the long term, you're 15 or 20 years away from retirement, then you can take this risk, right, that the market is going up and down because you've got time for things to even out. If you are not in the market, which many Americans aren't, this is a great time to get in. Things are less expensive now. Stocks are less expensive, but you need to have a plan so that when the market goes wrong, you know, crazy that you won't panic sell.

And it's OK to be scared. It's OK to, ah, but don't act on those feelings, especially if you have time before you need that money.

DEAN: Yes, it is. It's hard. Money can be very emotional for all of us. But I think you're right. It's good to be clinical about it. Try not to be emotional with it and try to just, you know, take those emotions and put them to the side.

The other bit of this is in terms of just cost of living, which is something that continues to really make a lot of Americans anxious. It's hard on them at the end of the month when they're trying to make sure they have enough money to cover everything. The administration has said, and the president has said that there could be some disruptions, as he's called it, or that there could be a short -- you know, some of them have said, don't worry about the short term. It might get more a little more expensive with these tariffs.

What does that mean for the average American? How should they think about that?

SINGLETARY: You know, if you're the average American, you can't think of the macroeconomics. You got to think micro. So if I were worried about my job right now and many people are as they should be, again because of these crazy policies of these tariffs, then I would be pulling back. I would be saving, I would be building up that cushion because you need to have that money if you lose your job.

If you're doing very well, you've got a good amount of savings. Your retirement is OK. Then if you were going to go ahead and spend something, I would go ahead and spend it, go ahead and buy that car that you've planned for. You save for. But it has to depend on where you are in life. And I'm telling people, even myself, my husband and I have been talking about this. We were going to do a big bathroom improvement. But because of the tariffs and the threat of that, we're going to pull back on that a little bit and just sort of wait to see.

And again, that's what happens, right? People do what's right for them as they should. And then that then again feeds into this idea that that consumers are going to spend as much because they shouldn't, right? They need to make sure they have that money. And that's why we may end up in a recession. And this is -- don't, please understand that this, if we have one is a manufactured one.

[18:45:02]

The underlying businesses in America are doing well. If we go into a recession, it is because of the policies that they are pursuing.

DEAN: All right, Michelle Singletary, thank you for talking us through a lot of that. We appreciate it.

SINGLETARY: You're welcome.

DEAN: We'll be right back.

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DEAN: Tonight, a new episode of the CNN Original Series "TWITTER: BREAKING THE BIRD." It follows the platform's increasing influence on the world of news and politics, from Barack Obama's first presidential campaign to the miracle on the Hudson and political unrest.

Here's a preview.

[18:50:11]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: The State Department asked Twitter to delay scheduled maintenance today in order to keep information flowing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The State Department reached out and said, hey, you should consider taking your downtime not during Friday afternoon prayers because we think there's going to be a big demonstration. And Twitter is a key tool being used there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was like, OK, we can change the time, but just know that I don't like the idea that someone from the United States government can call us, and we'll honor the request right away because what if someone from China calls us and wants a thing, should we do that?

EV WILLIAMS, CO-FOUNDER AND CEO, TWITTER: The more you see the thing you're building as this public utility then it's like, there's a question of what's right for the business, what's right for society. Is that a question we should be asking? Like, are we a government now? I was like, we certainly weren't prepared to answer all those questions. It was new to everybody. No one knew what the right answer was.

RABBLE, FOUNDER, VERSE, HELPED CREATE TWITTER: All of a sudden Twitter was running the public square and who gave Twitter permission to do that? And no one did. I mean, that's the way it works. And I think that that transition into responsibility is hard. No one at the beginning could possibly have understood where it was going.

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DEAN: Joining us now to talk more about this, one of Twitter's very first employees, Rabble. We were just seeing you in that clip there. It's great to have you on. And you were saying no one really knew where Twitter was going to go. Do you recall the moment when it dawned on you, wow, we've really -- we've hit on something, this is a phenomenon?

RABBLE: First of all, thank you for having me. And the first moment I really got it was actually the moment an activist in Egypt tweeted, "Arrested," and a crowd of people got together and got him out of jail in the Arab spring protest. It became clear that we could organize in a way that wasn't possible before.

DEAN: Yes, I mean, it was really coming of age in the Arab spring. And you're describing those moments. I mean, did it ever occur to you all when you were putting it together that that's where this would end up?

RABBLE: No, we had no idea. If you go back and look at the original tweets, it's like eating breakfast and waiting for the bus. And they're all very sort of benign, banal tweets when it first got started.

DEAN: Yes. And you posted on X last week during this -- the first episode that aired that you do feel nostalgic for the time when you were all together building this. What are those feelings like? And then how do you kind of -- how did you sit with those? And then where the company is now and what it's turned into?

RABBLE: When we started Twitter, it was a really sort of optimistic moment where we could create the future and everything was possible. And if we just democratize the media, then social problems will be easier to solve. And in many ways, that became true. You have MeToo and Black Lives Matter and the Arab spring, and all these kind of things, but it also empowered things we didn't expect. Empowered kinds of hate speech and the alt-right.

And so it's both inspiring to see where Twitter came from and the power it's had to transform the world, and frustrating that it became a tool for making the world a less inclusive and democratic space.

DEAN: Mm. Yes. Because in the end, you know, you create this thing. I have to think I've never developed something like this so I wouldn't know. But it would seem to me you developed this thing, you have this idea, you put it out into the world and then it's kind of like you're handing off your baby to the world. They're all grown up now, and you know, you don't know what's going to happen and who's going to take control and who's going to become the loudest voice on this platform.

RABBLE: Absolutely. And you know, the beauty of Twitter was that none of it was created by Twitter ourselves. We created the space, the vessel.

DEAN: Right.

RABBLE: But hashtags and at replies and retweets and live streams and all of the things we think of at Twitter were created by the users. And so it was really co-designed with the users, and it took on a life of its own.

DEAN: It's kind of funny. I do remember when we had to type in RT and then you'd put it at -- you know, I mean, it evolved over time. Yes, it really, really did.

Well, thank you, Rabble. It's great to see you. We'll be watching tonight. Thanks for talking with us and reminiscing a little bit.

RABBLE: Thank you so much. It's a pleasure.

DEAN: Yes. Tune in a new episode of the CNN Original Series "TWITTER: BREAKING THE BIRD" is tonight at 10:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific on CNN.

Still ahead, new clues in the case of a missing American student in the Dominican Republic. Newly released pictures show where investigators found her flip flops and her cover-up. We'll talk more about this.

[18:55:02]

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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DEAN: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jessica Dean in New York.

And tonight there are questions about the Trump administration deporting hundreds of migrants, despite a judge's ruling temporarily blocking the president from using a centuries old law to speed up deportations. Multiple planes carrying hundreds of Venezuelan gang members took off from Texas yesterday en route to El Salvador, which had agreed to take and imprison them in exchange for $6 million.