Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

U.S. Envoy Steve Witkoff Says He Expects Trump-Putin Call This Week; Business Leaders Alarmed By White House Economic Policies; Governor Newsom Criticized For Hosting Right-Wing Guests On Podcast; Food Insecurity Rises Alongside Higher Prices; March Madness In Full Swing. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired March 16, 2025 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[20:00:00]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN ANCHOR: Dozens of people were reported killed when Trump ordered decisive military strikes against Tehran-backed Houthi rebels in Yemen.

CNN senior White House reporter Kevin Liptak joining us now with more on this.

And Kevin, Secretary of State Marco Rubio speaking with his counterpart at the Kremlin about those strikes in Yemen. How might that impact this conversation between Trump and Putin?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, certainly this call will have Ukraine at the very center of it but I do think the Middle East and Iran could become more important in relations between Washington and Moscow as Trump tries to repair that relationship and bring it back into normal status. And I think this call between Sergey Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, and Marco Rubio was pretty interesting.

The Kremlin says it was initiated by the U.S. side and that in it, Lavrov stressed the importance of all sides engaging in political dialogue in order to find a solution that would prevent further bloodshed. And, you know, Russia has actually offered to mediate between the U.S. and Iran when it comes to Iran's nuclear program. Remember, President Trump just sent a letter to the supreme leader of Iran within the last couple of weeks trying to restart some of these nuclear negotiations.

And I think these strikes in Yemen really did act as something of a warning to Iran in order to bring it to the negotiating table. You know, American officials, including just this morning, have not ruled out the prospective U.S. military action in Iran to take out its nuclear program if officials there don't come to the negotiating table to try and come up with a diplomatic solution. Of course, Russia now says that it wants to be part of those talks, but it is an interesting element to these conversations.

You know, the strikes in Yemen do appear to be escalating. You've seen the Houthi rebels fire back at the USS Harry Truman. The American military says that those drones and missiles were intercepted. But you see, this potential of an escalation for escalation ladder, which is, you know, exactly what President Trump wants to avoid in all of this. And I think if he sees the Russians as a potential mediator and as a potential negotiating partner, he could be very tempted to take that offer even as he works to conclude this Ukraine ceasefire in parallel talks -- Jessica.

DEAN: And, Kevin, one major issue is whether Russia will get to keep territory it seized during its assault on Ukraine as part of a ceasefire deal, when we're going back to Russia and Putin and that discussion, Americans say it has to go back. Putin says he's not going to give it up. How's President Trump going to handle this?

LIPTAK: Yes, and it hasn't been explicitly clear what exactly Trump's position on all of this is. American officials have said, including Marco Rubio, including Mike Waltz, the National Security adviser, that Ukraine will have to cede some of this territory that Russia occupies if this ceasefire is to go into effect and if this war is ever going to come to an end. And in fact, Putin has made that a condition of entering this ceasefire, that President Trump is trying to convince him to agree to.

But when you listen to the Ukrainians, to the President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, he has said that this is a nonstarter, that he doesn't want to cede any of the territory that Ukraine has lost over the course of this war. And when you talk to European officials, they're concerned that that could amount to a reward for Putin after his illegal invasion. So this will be one of the most thorny topics as the two sides try and bridge their differences.

You know, Witkoff earlier today did say that Trump envisions the ceasefire taking effect within weeks. That's an extraordinarily condensed timeline for them to try and resolve all of these differences -- Jessica.

DEAN: Indeed. All right, Kevin Liptak, thank you so much. We appreciate it.

Our Jake Tapper spoke earlier with President Trump's special envoy, Steve Witkoff, about his recent meeting with President Putin in Moscow and when he thinks we might see movement on a push for a ceasefire. Here's some of their conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Has President Trump decided on next steps? Are these negotiations at any point where President Trump himself might get involved?

STEVE WITKOFF, U.S. SPECIAL ENVOY TO THE MIDDLE EAST: Well, I think President Trump is involved in every aspect and dimension of these discussions. I briefed him within five or 10 minutes of the meeting with President Putin. I was in the U.S. embassy briefing him and the vice president and Susie Wiles, our chief of staff, and Mike Waltz, our National Security adviser.

So where -- they're getting, the president is getting updates in real time on everything that's happening. And he's involved in every important decision here. I expect that there will be a call with both presidents this week. And we're also continuing to engage and have conversations with the Ukrainians. We're advising them on everything we're thinking about.

[10:05:02]

TAPPER: Is the U.S. willing, as part of this peace process, to recognize Russian occupied Ukrainian territory as Russian territory, as part of a deal?

WITKOFF: I don't want to speak to that at this moment. I mean, I think it's a little bit premature to get into that now. I think the -- we're going to have teams, United States negotiators meeting with the Ukrainians this week, in discussions with them this week. Same thing will happen with the Russians. And I think as the president said, he really expects there to be some sort of, some sort of deal in the coming weeks, maybe.

And I believe that that's the case. I actually believe that that's the sort of progress that we saw in my conversation with President Putin. And that's the sort of progress that we saw in the Saudi talks.

TAPPER: So after Ukraine agreed to a ceasefire without preconditions, take a listen to what Secretary of State Marco Rubio said about Russia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: We're going to tell them this is what's on the table. Ukraine is ready to stop shooting and start talking, and now it will be up to them to say yes or no. I hope they're going to say yes. And if they do, then I think we made great progress. If they say no, then we'll unfortunately know what the impediment is to peace here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So Putin has not immediately said yes to this ceasefire deal. So, as Secretary Rubio puts it, is it now clear that Putin is the impediment to peace right now?

WITKOFF: I think, look, I don't want to put words in President Putin's mouth, but I think he's indicated that he accepts the philosophy of President Trump. President Trump wants to see an end to this. I think President Putin wants to see an end to this. I think President Zelenskyy wants to see an end to this. I think that there are specific conditions in the field. There's a 2,000 kilometer border that -- where there's all kinds of fighting going on currently between Russian and Ukrainian troops.

There's a Kursk region that's important to think about here. These are all details that have to get worked out at the table and all sides, I believe, are committed to doing that.

TAPPER: When do you think there will be a deal? You said soon. Weeks, months?

WITKOFF: You know, the president uses the timeframe weeks. And I don't disagree with him. I am really hopeful that we're going to see some real progress here. We've made, Jake, I think everybody has to focus on the progress that's been made since the president was inaugurated. Nobody expected progress this fast. This is a highly, very complicated situation. And yet we're bridging the gap between two sides. So lots of things that remain to be discussed. But I think the two presidents are going to have a really good and positive discussion this week.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: And that was our Jake Tapper speaking with U.S. foreign envoy Steve Witkoff.

While Trump and Putin prepare to speak in the coming days, one of the sticking points in these negotiations remains the issue of land concessions. Will Russia be willing to give back land that it took from Ukraine?

I spoke earlier with CNN national security analyst and former deputy director of National Intelligence, Beth Sanner, about this and what Russia might be willing to give up.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: I do want to start with these negotiations with Putin. He has made a series of demands that include wanting to keep that territory in Ukraine, limiting Ukraine's military and halting military aid to Ukraine. Do you think he's willing to negotiate on any of these?

BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, he definitely thinks of these as core demands. They're consistent demands or demands that he's been making, in addition to other ones for, you know, at least since 2022 and even some of these before he invaded. So, you know, these are not really negotiable points in many ways.

The question is, where do they come into the negotiations, right? And what's clear to me is this one very, very important point. Russia has rejected an unconditional ceasefire that U.S. put on the table in Riyadh. The Ukrainians accepted it. Russia had said no. And now Putin is trying to negotiate a conditional ceasefire. And I think he's going to try to see what he can get as much as he can get for the ceasefire, rather than allowing this to be part of the next phase.

In my view, you know, we've already penalized the Ukrainians. So where is the penalty on Russia here? We're only talking about what they get, not what they don't get.

DEAN: Right. And I think there is that question looming out there. What does Russia have to give here?

SANNER: Yes.

DEAN: Right?

SANNER: Yes. Apparently nothing because the real effort here is to get a ceasefire as quickly as possible.

[20:10:07]

And I understand that. Honestly, I really do. Every Ukrainian understands that. You know, we want the guns to be silenced. But we have to be careful about giving away what is going to be, as Marco Rubio said, a much, much more difficult actual negotiation on the terms. And so you don't want to give away too much upfront because those are going to be tough negotiations.

DEAN: I also want to talk about the strikes on the Houthis. Trump's National Security adviser Mike Waltz, is warning Iran will be held accountable for backing the Houthis. He also didn't rule out possible military action to prevent Iran from building a nuclear weapon. I just want to listen to a quick clip from him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE WALTZ, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: What the president has completely -- has repeatedly said is that Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. All options are on the table to ensure it does not have one. And that's all aspects of Iran's program. That's the missiles, the weaponization, the enrichment. They can either hand it over and give it up in a way that is verifiable, or they can face a whole series of other consequences.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: So, Beth, do you think there is a risk of an escalation between the U.S. and Iran? And could it include these -- could it include direct strikes?

SANNER: Yes, I do think that there's a risk there. And the risk, in a way, is really being pushed by Israel right now. There's a lot of chatter in Israel and interest by some people in the Israeli government of taking a strike against Iran now. They might do that on their own, but they would much, much more prefer that the United States does it with them while this window is open of Iran really being kind of, you know, not having air defenses and being rather, you know, relatively defenseless in many ways.

And so, you know, yes, they're very, very worried about this. But the strike on the Houthis and the warning that's not really translatable to Iran. And in fact, I think that this pressure tactic may make it actually harder for Iran to come to the table, which is what President Trump actually wants. He does -- he will do this. He will strike if necessary. But I think he would prefer a negotiated solution. And that has to be done behind closed doors, not these kind of public threats.

DEAN: But you're saying that you think these strikes on the Houthis could make that harder, it could make it more difficult for or less likely that the Iranians come to the table.

SANNER: Yes. What I meant was the kind of public threats.

DEAN: Right. SANNER: Saying that, you know, we're striking the Houthis and you

could be next unless you come to the table. That's the sort of thing that doesn't translate well in Iran because it just makes them look weak if they now say, oh, OK, we're going to the negotiating table.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: All right, Beth Sanner, thanks so much for that.

Still ahead, will a new week bring any stability to the markets after a week of heavy losses? Plus, how Trump's volatile economic trade tactics are straining top corporations' international business ties.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:18:03]

DEAN: Right now millions of people out there are hoping their retirement accounts are going to look a little stronger this week after President Trump's tariff threats drove stocks lower for four weeks straight. U.S. stocks suffered their worst week in two years, and the S&P entered correction territory on Thursday. Many economists are raising the chances of a possible recession in the United States, and breaking with presidents past, the Trump White House is not doing much to calm those fears.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTEN WELKER, NBC NEWS "MEET THE PRESS": Mr. Secretary, can you guarantee the American people here and now that there will be no recession on President Trump's watch?

SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: Well, Kristen, you know that there are no guarantees, like who would have predicted COVID? Right? So I can predict that we are putting in robust policies that will be durable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Comments like that have sent jitters through the stock market and corporate America. But as the "Wall Street Journal" reports, business leaders who are showing alarm behind closed doors are staying quiet when President Trump is in the room.

Joining me now, Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, who leads the Yale Chief Executive Leadership Institute and senior associate dean and professor at the Yale School of Management.

Jeffrey, thank you for being here with us tonight. I know you organized this summit where CEOs aired their concerns, and you told the "Wall Street Journal" that they were, quote, "horrified" about the tariffs with Canada. Tell us more about that.

JEFFREY SONNENFELD, YALE CHIEF EXECUTIVE LEADERSHIP INSTITUTE: Well, you just nailed it. It was a shocking contrast. Much of the same people that were at that business roundtable event with President Trump present in a kind of a windowless, basement-like facility, looked like they were in a church meeting hall somewhere in rows and columns. They were deathly silent and obedient, not saying anything.

Those same people we had together in the morning and with great light spilling in and open conversation, it was universally negative. They're quite worried and openly so, which is quite a break. They just don't want to confront him. They're afraid of his vindictiveness. They don't want to, as you would say, you know, poke the bear.

[20:20:05]

But there are particular actions that they're upset about. Just your prior segment on the cozying up to Russia had them so worried, as we seem to be confusing our allies and our adversaries that they really don't understand that. Something that KT McFarland didn't mention in an earlier segment you had is that Russia's economy is imploding. These CEOs know that. They have all pulled their businesses out, 1200 Western companies, major Western companies left Russia in an unparalleled, you know, escape from Russia.

They're not going back in. The economy is falling apart rapidly. They don't understand why we'd be looking to try to make Putin look better. But more than that, they're really concerned about the attacks, say, through the Federal Communications Commission. Just last night I was at the Gridiron Banquet in Washington, of Washington press people. Everybody there was targeted from ABC to CBS to NBC, even the heroes of CNN and MSNBC and "New York Times" and "Wall Street Journal."

We've never seen anything like this. And it's specific ways that these businesses feel at risk. And President Trump calling them out, the Justice Department is saying there's something they're doing by anything they say that's negative about him is evil. These are businesses that get very worried. Federal Trade Commission, they're expecting deregulation there. It's just the opposite. Microsoft or I think Google, Meta, Alphabet, they all have the same kind of regulation, if not more than what they had under the Biden administration.

The SEC, they're worried. The Food and Drug Administration, of course with the anti-vax sentiment, the pharma companies are worried. And all this means a lot of uncertainty before you even get to the tariff issues that you opened with. And yes, attacking Canada, what in the world are they supposed to do between now and two weeks from now, on, you know, April 2nd, when supposedly their period of grace is up and we have these tariffs and whether or not they're going to be 20 percent, 25 percent or 200 percent.

During that session that you referred to, we had bulletins coming in about every 15, 20 minutes, and people were shocked. Their head spinning reversals as to what to do, and on top of all this, the relaxation of the cyber command. You know, the U.S. government has 2,500 attacks, about every 30 seconds our government is being attacked largely by Russia. And for President Trump to say we should lighten up on that and halt the proactive defenses there has these CEOs really, really worried. The consequences are that the market is plunging.

DEAN: Yes. And that --

SONNENFELD: And you know, confidence is plunging.

DEAN: Go ahead.

SONNENFELD: We have seen the Michigan consumer survey has fallen now to like 14-year lows. They're down 20 percent, 25 percent, CEO sentiment from "Chief Executive" magazine that several hundred other CEOs they surveyed down 25 percent. And our own CEOs are telling us that 80, you know, 80 percent of them think that the Trump approach to tariffs is bad for the economy.

They're not opposed to tariffs, but the across-the-board approach is the problem. They want some selective tariffs where there is some dumping. But this head spinning reversal creates uncertainty that CEOs are now at a turning point for speaking up about this. The amount of money that was just lost in this -- since President Trump became president, it's for the markets, $4.6 trillion that could fund 90 years of Ukrainian war. 90 years of the (INAUDIBLE) by the amount of money that was just lost in the last six weeks on markets because of this nonsensical and needless uncertainty.

DEAN: And, Jeffrey, the Trump administration would tell you, and we heard from Scott Bessent, he said this is the economy detoxing, that it's something that's needed to happen. That, and they, the policies are essentially trying to realign both the domestic economy and the global economy are places in the global economy. What do these CEOs think about that?

SONNENFELD: Well, the CEOs actually have a good feel for Scott Bessent, Secretary Bessent. I like him, too. I don't really know him well. Many of them do know him well. He's seen as an honest, very smart person. However, nobody is ruling out recession. These CEOs feel there's about a 92 percent chance we're headed towards recession, as Secretary Bessent doesn't want to deny because he's honest.

Well, if you take a look at what your reporter, Matt Egan, has been reporting, what he picks up from analysts, and he's a fantastic economics reporter, he says that analysts are telling CNN 30 percent, 35 percent likelihood of recession, which is way higher than it was. These CEOs, it's three times as high as that. We're headed towards a needless recession. So the consequences, sure, Scott Bessent is right.

We do have these periodic setbacks of 10 percent, 12 percent, 15 percent and markets in correction territory as it's called.

[20:25:01]

But there are consequences to that. A lot of money is lost. And, you know, that means about $20,000 for average households' 401(k) was just disappeared. That might not matter to somebody as wealthy as Secretary Bessent, but $40,000 or $20,000 that just disappeared out of somebody's retirement account. And that's where you opened, Jessica. You're exactly right. That's devastating. DEAN: Yes, it really, it shakes people for sure.

Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, thank you for your insight into that. We appreciate it.

SONNENFELD: Thank you.

DEAN: Still ahead, Democratic governor -- Democratic California Governor Gavin Newsom is facing fierce criticism after sitting down with conservative firebrand Steve Bannon and Charlie Kirk on his podcast. How Newsom's effort to reach across the aisle is angering his already divided party.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:30:12]

DEAN: A new CNN poll shows the Democratic Party at a new low. Only 29 percent of registered voters view the party favorably. 29 percent, which might explain why we're seeing some members of the party trying to do something different. One example, California Governor Gavin Newsom, he has a new podcast. It is making some waves and making some members of his own party uncomfortable because of who he's having on. This week's guest, for example, former Trump strategist Steve Bannon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D), CALIFORNIA: Your issues with Elon and we haven't even gotten to that. And I know that's all --

STEVE BANNON, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Do I have any issues? Do I have any issues?

NEWSOM: Yes, I know. Well, you called him evil. You called him a racist.

BANNON: Parasitic illegal alien.

NEWSOM: Parasitic illegal alien I think was your exact phrase. Your phrase, not mine. Though we may share some commonality in terms of concern about what he's doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: CNN chief media analyst Brian Stelter joining us now.

Brian, good to see you on a Sunday night. What do you make of Newsom's efforts here? Because he's clearly trying to do something.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: It's 2025, but he's doing this with an eye toward 2028.

DEAN: Yes. STELTER: Newsom is trying to rebrand himself, show himself as a

moderate and not as a far-left California liberal. And he's trying to do something that he wants other Americans to do, particularly other Democrats, members of his party. He says in order to fight thy enemy, you must know thy enemy. You must talk to people on the other side. And that's something that, of course, is well-intentioned.

A lot of the criticism of Newsom, though, has been that he's letting people like Steve Bannon repeat flagrant falsehoods on the podcast without challenging them. And that gets to this strategy question or tactics question about what to do when you're talking to someone who's not just on the other side they're living in another reality. But that is the challenge for Democrats if they're going to persuade people, if they're going to appeal to a broader audience.

Newsom is trying one way, other Democrats trying other ways. Here's what I'll tell you. His podcast has been in the top 10 on Apple, so it's doing what he wants. It's creating buzz, creating attention, not all positive attention. But for Newsom, I think he welcomes the bad press as well.

DEAN: Yes. Yes. I mean, the idea that it is doing well, people are listening, to your point, for whatever reason they have, and with whatever reaction they have. But isn't that the whole point?

STELTER: Right.

DEAN: To stay in the conversation.

STELTER: Yes. And you see others who are criticizing him, for example, you know, the Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear saying that the Democrats should not be giving platforms to far-right figures like Bannon who espouse really hateful views sometimes.

Well, here's the thing. Democrats in the United States have lost the platforming argument, period. End of story. That argument was waged years ago and it's been lost. The social networks have rolled over. The companies like Facebook, they are no longer trying to even engage in that kind of conversation about how to handle bad faith actors who spread lies and disinformation.

The platform argument has been lost. Democrats can try to revive it, try to restart it. But for now, it's been lost. And figures like Bannon have a lot of power. If you look at that podcast that I mentioned, it's Joe Rogan who is on top. So what you see are some Democrats like Newsom trying to figure out a new path forward. And yes, they're going to get criticized for it, especially by California liberals. There's a lot of criticism in his own state for it, but I understand why Newsom is trying.

DEAN: And look, there is this ecosystem. You do start to think about how Democrats had kind of this pop culture edge to them that when Twitter came out, it was like Barack Obama was rising at that moment that they really had been the kind of cool kids in that space for a while. It's now totally upside down from that. And Republicans are the cool kids in that space now, and it seems like Democrats are just trying to find their footing again.

STELTER: Yes. And it's part of this broader battle within the Democratic Party. Right? Fascinating new CNN polling today showing a big change from Trump's first term. The first time around most Democrats, many Democrats, wanted the party to work with Republicans, to work with Republicans in some fashion. Now by a 51 percent, you know, advantage, they say, stop Republicans. Do whatever you can to stop Trump.

Democrats in this country are mobilized. They're energized. They believe that their party is sleepwalking toward authoritarianism. And they may be right to some degree. Democrats are in desperate desire -- desperately desiring leadership. In some cases new leadership. And that explains a lot of the criticism of Chuck Schumer in the past few days. But, you know, we're going to see an all-of-the-above strategy.

It's never a yes or no, black or white answer in a moment of such desperation for a political party. Right? It's an all-of-the-above answer.

DEAN: Right.

STELTER: And so you're going to see people like Chris Murphy go one way, Gavin Newsom go another way. And maybe a year or two from now, we'll have a better sense of what the better strategy was.

DEAN: What is the role of authenticity in all of this? Can people see that, like through just find that authenticity when they're trying -- you know, people, they're all going to try to connect now on social media, let's say, or do a podcast.

[20:35:09]

How much of that matters where it's people trust that they're being authentic, that it's not just for politics?

STELTER: I think the closer the camera is, the more people can tell if they're being authentic or if you're faking it. You know, when you're giving an interview, if you're at a rally or something, if you're speaking from far away, you might be able to get away with it. When the camera is right in your face and you're making an Instagram video, it's harder to fake it. You have to be real. You have to be authentic.

And figures like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez really succeed in that format because they come across as real, normal human beings.

DEAN: Very interesting stuff. All right, Brian Stelter, thanks so much. We appreciate it.

Still ahead, a single mom desperate to make ends meet, worried about keeping her kids fed as these prices go up. How some families are getting by.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [20:40:37]

DEAN: President Trump's trade war is not only rattling Wall Street, it's also raising anxiety among a lot of Americans who are desperate to make ends meet.

CNN's Rosa Flores heads to Houston to see how some families there are getting by.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BIANCA PANELOSA, HOUSTON RESIDENT: Everybody needs something, you know.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Bianca Panelosa takes her place in the back of the line of this North Houston food fair.

PANELOSA: Look in the front, baby, because your ponytail is going to be crooked.

FLORES: The single mother of three children with another on the way.

PANELOSA: I have a good, good babies. All my family, they're good.

FLORES: Is a survivor of domestic violence and was on the brink of homelessness after a divorce. Forced to move in with her parents, now food banks are her lifeline.

PANELOSA: This is the only way that I can survive.

FLORES: Bundled up in the cold pre-dawn hours, many elderly on fixed income, all increasingly worried about what rising food prices and the impact of tariffs will mean for them.

This is Maria Martha de Leon. How old are you? She's 72, and she's on a fixed income.

(Voice-over): She was the first in line, arriving at 4:30 a.m. to secure one of 250 slots for a box of food.

You're worried about the tariffs.

She says that with the tariffs, she just doesn't know if she's going to have enough money to buy food.

(Voice-over): The food from the food fair comes from the Houston Food Bank, which saw a 22 percent increase in the amount of food distributed this January compared to January of last year.

The CEO of the food bank describes a potential nightmare scenario that he says could happen if there are cuts in social programs coupled with job losses, which could mean an increase in demand and desperation.

BRIAN GREENE, PRESIDENT AND CEO, HOUSTON FOOD BANK: If we do go into a recession, then it's going to be even more people. If not only are we not able to meet the increase in need, we're actually having to make significant cuts in what we distribute.

ROSALVA HERNANDEZ, MANAGER OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT, BAKERRIPLEY: OK, and where are we at 197.

FLORES: The head of the monthly BakerRipley Food Fair gets emotional watching familiar faces.

HERNANDEZ: This is my family. These are my people.

FLORES: And says there's been a 13 percent increase in need this month compared to last month.

HERNANDEZ: We hear, you know, they're not getting food stamps, they lost their job, they're ill.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning.

PANELOSA: Good morning. We get some potatoes, broccoli. What else? Oh, bananas.

FLORES: Bianca says she can't work because she has to care for her two boys with disabilities. They're 6 and 11, and the $400 in food stamps she receives each month is not enough.

PANELOSA: I have to be grateful for everything that they give us free.

FLORES: But with tariffs looming, Bianca is preparing to take more drastic measures to make ends meet.

PANELOSA: Here.

FLORES: Like boiling tap water instead of using bottled water, diluting juices and milk for cereal.

PANELOSA: More?

FLORES: And feeding her kids less.

PANELOSA: Less fruit, less vegetables. To eat a little bit less than we're supposed to be eating.

FLORES: So you would ask your kids to eat less?

PANELOSA: To eat less. So that's why I'm telling them it's going to be, you know, very tough for us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: And that was Rosa Flores reporting. Thanks for that.

Still ahead it is selection Sunday. Who made the March Madness bracket, who's left out?

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [20:48:48]

DEAN: March Madness is now in full swing. Tonight, the NCAA men's tournament bracket was revealed during Selection Sunday. Auburn, Duke, Florida and Houston grabbing the top four seeds.

And joining us now, CNN Sports analyst and sports columnist for "USA Today," Christine Brennan. Her book, "On Her Game: Caitlin Clark and the Revolution in Women's Sports," comes out July 8th so keep an eye out for that.

Christine, hi. Good to see you. Walk us through, how did it go? How did it all shake out today?

CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: You know, Jessica, this really is the -- I think it's the greatest time in sports. I know so many people feel that way, and, or second to the Super Bowl. I mean, it is such, March Madness is such an American institution, men and of course, women. And yes, you're talking, first, let's, you know, go to the men because they announced a couple hours ago and women are just finishing up right now.

And the big takeaway here is the southeastern conference, which used to be known as a football conference and still is, obviously. But they have 14 of the 16 teams in the conference that have made the tournament, and 13 of them are better seeds. In other words, higher seeds in the NCAA tournament than they were in the SEC tournament. In other words, the respect for this conference is enormous.

[20:50:03]

Now, whether that means one or two might make the men's final four, who knows? Florida is definitely the team that is playing the best out of the conference, and they've gone out west where they're going to run into Saint Johns and they've got Texas Tech and also University of Maryland. So that's just one of the brackets, one of the regions. And then as of course, as you mentioned, the other three.

But I think that SEC, that number, that is the most ever from a conference. Of course, the conferences are getting bigger because of the super conferences that they're making, mostly because of football. So we probably will never see that number ever reached again. But the SEC is probably -- is rightfully very proud tonight.

DEAN: Yes. As a native Arkansan, 1994 was a big year for us when the Razorbacks won the NCAA tournament. It is seared into my brain. So yes, it's an exciting time when the SEC does well in basketball. Any big surprises or snubs beyond that?

BRENNAN: Well, I, you know, I think people are talking about Indiana, obviously one of the blue bloods, one of the great traditions in men's basketball, going back to Bobby Knight and their three national championships. That clearly is notable. They did not make it. But they have not had a great season.

North Carolina got in. Indiana did not. That will be an ACC big 10 rivalry potentially one more of those. And then, you know, I think also it's worth mentioning, Jessica, Duke. You know I think Duke could win this whole thing. Their superstar freshman phenom Conner Flagg was injured during the -- excuse me, Cooper Flagg was injured during the ACC tournament. And he turned -- he sprained his ankle. And so Duke still won that tournament.

Duke I think goes in as a real strong favorite to make it to the final four and maybe win the whole thing because Flagg will be back. They expect he will be back and healthy in time for that title run for a team that knows a lot about winning national titles, of course, the Duke Blue Devils.

DEAN: Yes, indeed. I do want to talk about the women's tournament, too. They actually pulled in four million more viewers than the men's tournament last year. And as you noted, that bracket just being revealed now, just getting your first thoughts on that.

BRENNAN: UCLA is the overall number one seed. And I think that's certainly due to the fact that they won the big 10 tournament in the first year that UCLA, USC and the other western schools are in the big 10. They beat USC with Juju Watkins. So watch UCLA, watch USC. But I also would say South Carolina. You know, Don Staleys won two of the last three NCAA championships at South Carolina. And they are playing very well.

And they are the of course the number one seed in their bracket in their region. But they're also even though they're the number two overall seed, I would never bet against South Carolina and Don Staley at tournament time. So UCLA, USC, Texas, those are the other three. But South Carolina is always to me a cut above until someone can beat them, which happened a couple of years ago in the final four, two years ago when Caitlin Clark and Iowa beat them. But in general, South Carolina has been the dominant team in women's basketball now for several years.

DEAN: Yes. Why do we love it so much, Christine? It's such a fun time of year.

BRENNAN: It is. Well, you know, the upsets, and I have no idea, you know, who's going to beat who. But we know come a week from now, there will be names of players we've never heard of.

DEAN: Yes.

BRENNAN: We'll be talking about buzzer beaters or last second, you know, last second shots or just some heroic performance and teams that should win won't win. And I think that's just the allure of it. And college age kids, both men and women of course it's truly a national tournament.

DEAN: It really is fun. All right, Christine Brennan, great to see you. Thanks so much.

BRENNAN: Thank you, Jessica.

DEAN: We'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:58:41]

DEAN: Next on CNN, a new episode of "UNITED STATES OF SCANDAL" follows the story of Enron. Here's Jake Tapper with more.

TAPPER: Thanks for having me, Jessica. So this episode is all about Wall Street, specifically the American energy company Enron. The company was considered a superstar in the 1990s. It was run by an imaginative and charismatic leader, Jeffrey Skilling. And it was one of Wall Street's most desired corporations. But in 2001, largescale fraud was revealed across the company, causing many to take a closer look at the internal workings of Enron and Skilling's leadership.

I spoke with an internal whistleblower, Sherron Watkins, about what was really going on at Enron during that time. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What was he doing that was so alarming and such a no-no?

SHERRON WATKINS, WHISTLEBLOWER: In effect, if I just bought a company for $10 million from you and one month later, I'm saying it's really worth $15, we're going to ride it up to $15 and put $5 million on the income statement. That $5 million is just bogus. You just made it up.

TAPPER: And that's what Jeff Skilling did.

WATKINS: That's what they did. Yes.

TAPPER: They would just assess what they thought it was worth.

WATKINS: Yes. But just a month ago, we had just bought the asset.

TAPPER: There actually is a hard number.

WATKINS: There's a hard number.

TAPPER: But they would not do that. They'd say, well, we think we can get five times this on the market. And so we're going to say this is worth $50 million.

WATKINS: Yes. Yes. It was all legal, but you just can't write things up like that. I mean, that was the beginning of the seeds of the fraud that killed Enron.