Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Potential Agreement Between IRS And ICE On Immigration Crackdown; Chuck Schumer Won't Step Down Amid Calls For New Leadership; Democratic Outrage Escalates As Party Looks For New Leadership; Pope Francis Out Of The Hospital, Continues Recovery At The Vatican; South Korean Family Missing After Grand Canyon Trip; Dismantling Of Education Department. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired March 23, 2025 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Doctors had to amputate his right leg due to frostbite, but Higginbotham says he's happy to be alive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANIEL HIGGENBOTHAM, TRAPPED FOR 24 HOURS IN TOTALED TRUCK: I'm dealing with it very well because I'm still alive. You always have to have hope. I shouldn't be alive. It is a miracle. I believe that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: And then Higgenbotham's dog, Junior, well, he was also in that truck and he managed to get out through a window and he attempted to get through the window and then he barked at rescuers when they arrived, calling attention to Higgenbotham.

Hello, again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

All right. New today, major changes as the Trump administration looks to enhance its immigration crackdown. According to a person familiar with the matter, the IRS and ICE officials are closing in on an arrangement that would allow the use of tax information to confirm names and addresses of people suspected of being in the U.S. illegally. ICE officials would first submit those names to the IRS for cross-reference.

CNN's Kevin Liptak is at the White House with more on all of this.

What are you learning, Kevin?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And I should say, Fredricka, this draft agreement is still being finalized. The negotiations are ongoing. But what it would do is essentially allow representatives from the Department of Homeland Security and ICE to submit names of undocumented immigrants to the IRS for the IRS to confirm those names and addresses against their own taxpayer data.

And this would be a significant shift. You know, taxpayer data is among the most closely held within the federal government. Unauthorized disclosure of that information can lead to criminal penalties. And up until now, the IRS had resisted efforts by DHS to obtain information that would help in this effort to deport undocumented immigrants in the United States. Now, it appears as if that is shifting.

This agreement is somewhat more narrow than what the DHS was originally asking for. This would not a require the IRS to hand over these names and addresses. They would only be confirming it. But when you talk to immigration advocates, they do say it could amount to a breach of trust by the IRS, which has for years been encouraging undocumented immigrants to pay their taxes with the understanding that it wouldn't necessarily be used to deport them.

And, you know, millions of undocumented immigrants do pay taxes, many in the hopes that it would allow them to eventually receive legal status in the United States if there is this record of paying their taxes. And so this would be a significant shift. Of course, it is all in the goal of ramping up the president's deportations agenda. And we know behind the scenes, the president has been frustrated at the pace of these deportations.

He would like them to see -- he would like to see them move much, much more quickly. And like so much of the president's immigration agenda, it does appear destined to be settled in the courts. This is something that immigration advocates have already signaled that they will file lawsuits over as the president works to enforce this hard line immigration agenda.

Now, on a separate deportation matter, the administration will be back in court tomorrow. This is the issue of the Alien Enemies Act, that centuries old law that allowed for the swift deportations of undocumented migrants that the administration accused of being members of a Venezuelan gang. President Trump is going very hard against the federal judge who is hearing that case, including just earlier today the president saying that he was a constitutional disaster.

Administration lawyers will be back in court tomorrow to argue their case in front of that very judge, as this all sort of continues its way through the legal system -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Kevin Liptak, thank you so much.

All right. New today, defiance from the top Democrat in the Senate amid mounting pressure from his own party to step aside, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer not mincing words in an interview earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Look, I'm not stepping down. And let me just say this, Kristen. I knew when I cast my vote against the government shutdown that it would be -- that there'd be a lot of controversy. And there was. But let me tell you and your audience why I did it, why I felt it was so important. The CR was certainly bad, you know, the continuing resolution, but a shutdown would be 15 or 20 times worse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[16:05:00]

WHITFIELD: Schumer has faced a barrage of criticism from Democrats since providing that key vote in advancing the Republican spending plan to keep the government from shutting down.

CNN's Eva McKend is in Washington.

Has Schumer lost the confidence of his party, even though he remains pretty defiant and confident that he is the right man for the job?

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Fred, it's hard to say definitively at this point. What we do know from speaking to Democratic voters, as I have all across the country, is there is deep disappointment with Schumer and Democratic leadership more broadly. Our own CNN poll, for instance, last month found nearly three quarters, 73 percent of Democratic voters say the party's caucus in Congress is doing too little to oppose President Trump.

And when I speak to organizers in left-leaning groups, they tell me the hope is that voters pressure their own senators on the Schumer question and then ultimately that pressure transfers to the caucus turning on him essentially, and him stepping aside. You heard, for instance, Colorado Senator Michael Bennet say recently it's important for people to know when it's time to go. Here is how one Democratic House member is thinking about this moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JIM HIMES (D-CT): What I do know is that it was not a good look for the two congressional Democratic leaders to be on opposite sides of the continuing resolution. That created a great deal of agita out there, and legitimately so. So I am quite certain that Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer have learned from this experience and are going to, at a minimum, be unified going forward here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKEND: And so, in the wake of all of this, Schumer remains defiant and maintains the country is in a constitutional crisis. The big question now is, will he change his strategy as a result of the criticism he's received, Fred, from all corners.

WHITFIELD: OK. Eva McKend, in Washington, thanks so much.

Hakeem Jeffries, the Democratic leader in the House, is also facing growing unrest from members within his own caucus.

CNN's Manu Raju explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Democrats are struggling with their way forward. They're trying to figure out what their strategy is as they try to battle Donald Trump, as they hear all of these voter concerns, their own voters saying that they are simply not doing enough to push back against Donald Trump. Of course, this was exacerbated in the aftermath of their handling of a Republican spending bill to keep the government open.

Chuck Schumer, the Democratic leader on the Senate side, ultimately agreed to let that GOP bill pass. That prompted a week's -- days of back and forth and attacks directed towards Chuck Schumer from Democrats. And now we are hearing that a lot of House Democrats want their leader of their caucus, Hakeem Jeffries, to take the reins back from Chuck Schumer and really lead the party's charge out of the minority, trying to lay out a vision, what they consider a badly needed vision for a party facing a crisis of confidence from not just voters showing on both sides of the aisle, showing concerns about the Democratic brand, concerns about the direction of the party but their own voters themselves.

Poll after poll showing that they believe the party is headed in the wrong direction. But Democrats want Jeffries to help bring them out of the morass. One of the things that we are hearing, my colleague Sarah Faris and I, about the push by some Democratic members to actually lay out a policy vision, a blueprint for how they could retake the House next year, come up with a number of proposals that their party could all unite behind.

That could be a lot easier said than done. This is a party that is not on the same page about what they are, actually, what they actually agree on some matters, but also on how to push back against Donald Trump, whether to fight him on everything, whether they should have gone down a government shutdown route that could have occurred by mid- March and could have landed -- went on for some time, or whether they should stand firm and let Donald Trump battle them on pretty much everything and try to shift the focus back towards Donald Trump.

These are strategic decisions that have been debated for the past several months. Democrats have been unable to come up with a single solution on how to push back against Donald Trump. So that's going to be one of the urgent matters to discuss as they return to Washington this week. One of the big focuses for Democrats in this next phase of battling Donald Trump is how to push back against the Trump agenda.

There's a massive bill that Republicans are trying to put together on a major tax overhaul, significant spending cuts, immigration policy, energy policy. Republicans are trying to wrap this up into one massive bill. Democrats are trying to figure out their strategy to push back against this. They, of course, want to focus on the issue of cuts to entitlement programs like Medicaid cuts. Republicans say that's not going to be part of the equation. Democrats say it absolutely will be.

Watch that to be one area of unity for Democrats going forward. That is something that Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries discussed on a private call just days ago in the aftermath of their flap over the government funding fight. But there will be other points of leverage that they got to figure out.

[16:10:00] There is going to be another battle to fund the federal government in the fall. That's months away. But it'll something that will come up rather quickly. And also how to raise the national debt limit. Republicans are trying to do it on their own through their own process. But Democrats may be forced to be called on to help lift the national debt limit. How do they use their leverage in that case as well to avoid a debt default, but also get what Donald Trump to heed to their demands?

All key questions that Hakeem Jeffries is facing at this moment. And one thing that we heard from our reporting is that Nancy Pelosi, the former House speaker, had a suggestion for Jeffries. She told him to, quote, "use your power." In other words, if Chuck Schumer is going a different way, use your power, your leverage to try to be the one pushing ahead on the Democratic agenda, sharpening your message, sharpening your strategy. Don't be playing second fiddle to Senate Democrats.

Manu Raju, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right. Just ahead, jubilation in Rome and around the world as Pope Francis emerges from his long stay in the hospital to return to his home at the Vatican. What happens next in his recovery?

And later, we'll share an amazing story of a pro-athlete turned mom turned cancer survivor. I mean, turned serious inspiration. See how Kimmy Pisanis' journey has become an inspiration, a real source for so many.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:16:08]

WHITFIELD: All right, new into CNN this afternoon. Israel says Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke with U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio earlier today. The prime minister's office said the two discussed the remaining hostages and Israel's renewed military offensive in Gaza.

Palestinian health officials say more than 50,000 people have now been killed since the war between Hamas and Israel began, including at least 41 who died this weekend. Hamas says one of its senior political leaders was among those killed.

And at this hour, a large delegation of U.S. officials is in Saudi Arabia meeting with Ukrainian representatives in an effort to end the war with Russia. The U.S. delegation is set to meet with Moscow officials tomorrow. These peace talks come just days after President Trump held a lengthy phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin. That call resulted in the Kremlin agreeing to temporarily halting attacks on energy infrastructure targets. But Moscow stopped short of signing off on a broader ceasefire that the U.S. wants.

Pope Francis is now recovering at his Vatican home after spending five weeks in the hospital. The 88-year-old pontiff was released this morning after doctors said his condition had stabilized. His medical team told reporters that during his stay, the Pope experienced two very critical episodes where his life was in danger.

Earlier today, CNN's Ben Wedeman was reporting live from outside the hospital when the Pope greeted a crowd as he was standing in the window.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Now, on the second floor, I don't know if you can see it, there's an open window there where we're expecting Pope Francis to appear. And there he is. You can see him, right?

So there, Victor, the crowd is applauding. He's waving. He's been rolled out on his wheelchair there. And, yes, this is the first time we are seeing him. The first time we are seeing him in more than 38 days, 38 days he's been here in Rome's Gemelli Hospital, suffering from double pneumonia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Pretty incredible moment. Right now CNN Vatican correspondent Christopher Lamb is with us.

So, Christopher, break down, you know what that moment was like, what his condition is overall and what potentially happens next.

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fredricka, it was quite an extraordinary moment, given what Pope Francis has been through these past five weeks. He's had a number of crises whilst he's been in the hospital. But on Sunday he came out to the balcony. He seemed very happy to be out of hospital. He greeted the crowd and he saw a lady there holding up yellow flowers, which he remarked upon. Let's take a look at what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE FRANCIS, CATHOLIC CHURCH LEADER: (Speaking in foreign language).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAMB: Now that lady had been coming up to the Gemelli Hospital every day to pray for Pope Francis's recovery. She, like many others in Rome and across the world, are praying for the Pope to come through this health crisis. And of course, many will be heartened to see the Pope out of hospital.

Now, of course, he has to undergo a period of convalescence and recovery. The doctors say he needs to spend at least two months recovering in his home of the Casa Santa Marta. He cannot, they say, have meetings with large groups of people. But he is due to meet King Charles on the 8th of April.

[16:20:02] It remains to be seen how the Pope is going to lead the church in this time. It's expected that he will slow down before hospitalization. He'd been keeping up a hectic pace of meetings and audiences that is expected to be reduced as he tries to recover, but certainly a new moment of the Francis papacy is likely to be opened up, where Francis uses his fragility and vulnerability to show his solidarity with those people who are fragile and vulnerable.

So I expect Francis to find a new way to be Pope whilst he recovers from this serious respiratory crisis -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. And then, Christopher, I mean, spring is, you know, typically a very significant and busy time of year, you know, for Catholics. So how is the Vatican going to manage the Pope's activity, those restrictions you just laid out, during this period?

LAMB: Well, we don't know what's going to happen at Easter. Of course, that's coming up pretty soon now. Now it's possible the Pope could attend some of these services rather than lead them. I don't expect him to be at all of them. It's not clear yet. Of course, Easter can take place without the Pope. That's happened before when John Paul II was very sick. So the Pope doesn't have to be at all these services.

But I imagine he will try to make some sort of appearance over the Easter period, which, of course, is the high point of the church's year. So it all kind of depends on how the Pope recovers in these coming weeks, whether he is obedient to the doctor's requests. It seems that the Pope is going to follow their orders for the time being. But of course, it all depends on how Francis manages his recovery at home. If that goes well, then perhaps we could see him appear at Easter.

WHITFIELD: All right. We all look forward.

Christopher Lamb, thank you so much.

All right. Still ahead, new details on the search for a family which mysteriously disappeared after a trip to the Grand Canyon.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:26:23]

WHITFIELD: Arizona officials are asking for the public's help locating a South Korean family who has been missing for more than a week now. Officials say the family of three was on a road trip from the Grand Canyon to Las Vegas, and GPS data from their rental car last pinged on Interstate 40 around the time of a fiery pileup during this winter storm. The deadly crash involved 22 vehicles and burned for more than 20 hours.

CNN correspondent Julia Vargas Jones is following the latest in the search for this family.

And what are authorities saying? JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the investigators are

still combing through that wreckage, Fred, a scene they say is intricate and time consuming to process. But just last night, we heard from authorities there that in the early afternoon hours of Saturday, highway patrol investigators discovered additional remains that they believe may be human. And those are now with the county medical examiner.

The Coconino County Sheriff's office released that flier asking for the public's help to identify 33-year-old Jiyeon Lee, 59-year-old Taehee Kim and 54-year-old Junghee Kim, as last seen on March 13th traveling westbound on that Interstate 40 in Arizona. Like you said, the last signal from their GPS was at 3:27 p.m. around the same time and place as that deadly pileup that was just outside Williams, Arizona. That collision involving 22 vehicles, some of them engulfed in flames, that burned at extreme temperatures.

That's from the Arizona DPS as well, saying that there was extensive destruction because of those temperatures. At least two people were killed and 16 others were taken to hospital. DPS says also that some passenger cars were rear ended and pushed underneath some tractor trailers there. The teams are still examining the evidence from the crash site to identify other possible remains.

The crash happened on that stretch of I-40 that was covered in snow and ice about 30 miles west of Flagstaff and 60 miles south of the Grand Canyon National Park entrance. Meanwhile, the consulate general of South Korea here in Los Angeles is working closely with Arizona authorities and anyone who has seen or heard of this family since the 13th is urged to contact Coconino County Sheriff's office -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: OK. Thank you so much, Julia Vargas Jones.

All right. And this just in. Police have now arrested three suspects in connection to a mass shooting in New Mexico that killed three teenagers. The suspects were charged with three open counts of murder. According to police, the chaotic scene of the shooting captured on video, which we do warn you, it is disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stay here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Police say the shooting began after a fight between two groups during an unsanctioned car show at a park in Las Cruces on Friday. In addition to the three deaths, more than a dozen people were injured. The victims' ages ranging from 16 to 36. The FBI, ATF and New Mexico State Police are investigating.

And we're getting new details about a fire that broke out at one of Walt Disney World's theme parks in Orlando, Florida. A spokesperson for Disney told CNN a walk-in cooler caught on fire in a backstage area of the French pavilion at Epcot Saturday. Visitors were evacuated from the pavilion area as a plume of heavy smoke filled the air. Disney officials say the pavilion was reopened to guests after the

flames were quickly extinguished. They say there was damage to the building. No one, however, was injured.

All right. Coming up, President Trump's education secretary is defending the president's dismantling of the Education Department. But department advocates are worried that the changes will strip resources from children.

An attorney who was just fired from the department joins me next.

[16:30:28]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK).

WHITFIELD: Today, persistent questions about the commitment and quality of children's public education, especially those with special needs. Four days after President Trump signed an executive order to shut down the Education Department.

Education secretary, Linda McMahon, talked to our Dana Bash this morning in an exclusive interview and pledged this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Can you guarantee to those parents and those students that there won't be any disruption with their education and the guarantees for their education?

LINDA MCMAHON, SECRETARY, U.S. EDUCATION DEPARTMENT: Well, I certainly hope -- I would like to see even more funding go to the states for that. And if it rests with HHS, which is one of the suggestions, that funding clearly is going to continue to come from Congress. And we want to make sure that those students do have that -- those special services in those needs which they have. Which is really monitored and taken care of at the state level.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: With me now is Brittany Coleman, an attorney at the Education Department's Office for Civil Rights in Dallas, who was just laid off. Brittany, glad you could be with us. So, sorry that you were laid off. But I'm wondering if you can tell us specifically -- you know, what did your job entail?

BRITTANY COLEMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY, U.S. EDUCATION DEPARTMENT (via Webex): So, my job entailed evaluating complaints that we receive from students or their parents or concerned citizens, concerning possible violations of civil rights. Where it could be students who have special needs or have an individualized education plan. Where they were supposed to receive special services like additional testing on time for taking a test. Just making sure that those points were, you know, followed so that students could receive everything they need to succeed in the classroom.

Also, just making sure that students weren't being discriminated against or in hostile environments. You know, and that could be because of their disabilities or because they -- of their sex or their race or their national origin.

So, really, the whole point was just to make sure that students could focus on educating themselves and learning in the classroom in an environment where they were free of harassment and receiving all the tools, funding and education that they need.

WHITFIELD: And now, with your removal, what are your concerns about what services, you know, might not be available or what might happen to some of the civil rights-related cases that you were working on?

COLEMAN: So, I'm very concerned about just the fact that there are going to be just continuous chaos and delays because of what we're seeing. Some of your viewers may not be aware of the fact that we did have 12 regional offices all over the country, including the regional office in Dallas.

We've gone from 12 regional offices down to five. And now, the expectation is that the remaining staff in those five regional offices will take on those complaints. That's going to be a heavy workload.

I can say in the OCR Dallas office, we already had a heavy workload, because we were the largest -- Dallas -- the office in Dallas. Because we handled all of Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi and those cases. So, now, you're expecting all those cases to be farmed out to other regions where they already had their own caseloads.

So, my concern is that, you know, the student that may need additional time to take tests or the students that's giving -- that are having difficulty accessing a stadium or a football field, because there may be ramps and other access points that are not in compliance with regulations. That they're not going to get that relief on time in a manner that's going to allow them to be able to fully access those things. So that they can do well on tests, or they can access a stadium and fully participate like other students.

So, it's just concern after concern that, you know, with what we're seeing by just shoveling this work off to other -- to other regional offices that are already short staffed anyway throughout OCR, that it means that students aren't going to get the help that they need in a timely manner. And that it can cause lasting effects because we're not able to intervene in time.

WHITFIELD: And I also understand that you are an Education Department union leader. So, you know, what are you hearing from other employees about the level of anxiety that they are feeling? Their worries about themselves and the school children and situations just like you just played out?

COLEMAN: So, anxiety is right along with just chaos and just feeling distressed over the fact that we are not able to provide the services that we normal -- that we normally provide. That complainants, who are waiting on relief in the Office for Civil Rights, are not getting timely responses, not getting timely relief.

[16:40:00]

COLEMAN: As a union leader, I have the pleasure of serving everyone who is in the bargaining (?) unit at the Department of Education. So, I interacted with other units, such as Federal Student Aid.

And as we know that this is a crucial time right now for students, who are applying for college and for grad school and trade schools, to figure out what their next steps are. The concerns I have is that we've cut our staff so severely that their FAFSA applications are not being processed on time.

And that the students and their parents, who are calling in for additional information, are dealing with the fact that FAFSA, you know, broke, at one point. Not this past week but the week before. Or that they're dealing with extremely long wait times, we're talking five hours, just to get answers to questions.

Like, this can impact what students know as far as their financial options on where they want to make their next steps. Or it could possibly prevent them from going to achieve higher education at all, if they don't get their financial information timely.

It can also mean impacts on grants that help put teachers in classrooms. Because that was done by another area of our agency, where we're putting funding into low-income areas to make sure that they can get great teachers to help teach our students.

So, now the concern is that if we're not administering those grants, where is that money going to come from? And also, too, I just want to emphasize just the overall oversight.

We are gravely concerned that because we're not able to do our jobs, and we're not having accountability to where federal dollars are going. We need to make sure that there is oversight to ensure that those dollars are getting to students who have special needs or getting to low-income areas. And that the money is being used in a manner that complies with federal laws.

And the concern is now that we're not there to watch that, what is happening to that money? And how do we make sure that it's actually getting to those students? And I am gravely concerned that it won't get to where it needs to be. And there's going to be no one there to make sure that it does.

WHITFIELD: Well, all of what you just said, all of it is so heartbreaking. And Brittany Coleman, we so appreciate you coming on and sharing about your experience. Your -- you know, your perspective on this and your perseverance.

I mean, here, you no longer have a job with the Department of Education in that Dallas office. And we can still hear, you know, the passion, the commitment that you have with your responsibilities that came with your job and your commitment over, what, some seven years or so as a civil servant.

We so appreciate you. Thank you so much for being with us. And all the best.

COLEMAN: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. Still to come, "Butterfly in a Blizzard." I mean, a fitting title for a new film illustrating one professional snowboarder's journey through life's highs and lows. She's joining me next.

[16:42:55]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. As we celebrate women's history month and the accomplishments and adventures of women around the world, often overlooked, the transitions many women experience as they endeavor carving a career, making space for love, motherhood. And then, the convergence of navigating all of that all at once.

Well, now, a new documentary explores literally the peaks and valleys of much of that through the extraordinary journey of elite snowboarder, Kimmy Fasani, and her pro-skiing husband, Chris Benchetler. It's called "Butterfly in a Blizzard." Here's a clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE): Motherhood is a confrontation with both life and death. It's one of the few experiences where you understand what it takes to bring life into this world, and also the preciousness of that life. You might even encounter a death-defying experience along the way. But the culture and the science has remained silent on this for so long.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. Joining me now, the subject and executive producer of that documentary, professional snowboarder, Kimmy Fasani. Kimmy, welcome.

KIMMY FASANI, PROFESSIONAL SNOWBOARDER: Thank you so much for having me. It's such an honor.

WHITFIELD: Oh, it's so great to have you because I cannot tell you how relatable this depiction is on so many levels. I mean -- I mean, down to the fact that you and I, our first sons, were born the same weight, 711. So, I feel like we have that added connection here.

And then, I mean, just watching your documentary, it felt a little PTSD because even though I'm not a snowboarder, I think a lot of us experienced the same thing. So, here's kind of the premise of your documentary, if you will, kind of in a nutshell. Tell me if I'm wrong on this.

So, you have encompassed here what it takes to prepare yourself for your career, believing you can continue on with the same drive and maybe interest after you have your first of two sons. Discover that it's really hard. Achievable still with lots of adjustments you've got to make. But I think, through it all, you're telling ourself -- you're telling us all to check ourselves.

So, did I kind of do it in a nutshell OK for you there?

FASANI: Yes, of course. Even though I'm a professional athlete, I think this film is so relatable to anybody balancing parenthood and our careers. There's just so much that we have to juggle and then throw in life and all the challenges that can come along with it.

[16:50:01]

FASANI: That's kind of the essence of this film.

WHITFIELD: So, what was your goal? I mean, who did you have in mind, as you were putting this together? Because you and your husband, I mean, this is routine for you guys. You know, through your both extraordinary careers that you would videotape a lot about it. But, you know, you're showing that this is a -- you know, a real love story. We see you and your sons there, your husband. Love story about your mom, too.

But, you know, what did you envision when you were thinking about your audience? You know, what did you want them to grasp here?

FASANI: Yes, I really wanted to open this conversation and just normalize what this transformation looks like, as we transform from a human or a person to a parent. And specifically, in my case, a mother, and trying to focus on the connection element, trying to show people that they're not alone. So many of us can relate to these challenges.

I also went through breast cancer. So, it's going through so many different life's challenges. And you're seeing us in real vulnerable form, trying to navigate that while balancing our careers. And we started with this idea that we were going to make a film just about us as athletes. And that really transformed as we got into parenthood, because we realized that we were so unknown.

WHITFIELD: And that's what's amazing. I mean, we hadn't even gotten to the breast cancer part. I mean, this is an incredible journey of so much. I mean, you know, from you, you know, still competing, you know, also dealing with contracts. You know, you're nursing. You're pumping. And, you know, you have a second child.

And then, yes, there's breast cancer. And you're -- you've learned so much about yourself. I wonder after that or with that diagnosis, after the birth of your second son, what that kind of, you know, unleashed in you. What you learned about yourself. Or, you know, how amazing, overall, women are, you know. And just, you know, battle tested.

FASANI: Yes. When I was diagnosed, I mean, that really brought this movie full circle because there were so many elements that I felt like I was learning to navigate. Becoming a parent. Navigating my career.

And then, my diagnosis really opened me up to how helpful it is to have an amazingly supportive community around you. How important it was to feel not alone. How important it was to spend time outside connecting to nature when I could. And just the real-life element of trying to navigate life and parenthood and our careers. And it can feel like so much.

So, the film really is this essence of trying to make people feel like we are all connected.

WHITFIELD: I mentioned, you know, your husband. He's been through it all. And he really exhibited such beautiful grace and understanding and empathy. And, you know, also admitting it was -- it's hard for him, too, to know how to say and do the right things. I love one of the things he said to you. He said -- he said about you. That she opened my eyes to the depths of a human. I mean, wow, that is so powerful.

So, I'm wondering, you know, through your journey, you know, and as a mom, you know, what are you hoping this kind of resilience, your journey, is teaching your sons?

FASANI: I just want them to be able to know that when they fall, they can get back up. And we've learned that through our sport, but we learned that in life as well. When things feel really hard, if we have people out there supporting us. And, in my case, my husband has been such a fundamental part of that, it really makes it feel a little bit easier. Because we are there to help carry the weight of these challenges.

And, for my kids, I just want them to know that their resilience is something that can be conditioned, and it's something that we have to really practice and work on. And, overall, I hope that when they understand this film, that they will see that in us.

WHITFIELD: Well, it's really beautiful. It was such a great pleasure to have you here to also help us in kind of the mini journey of the big journey, you know, of what "Butterfly in a Blizzard" is all about. It's streaming right now on Apple T.V. Plus.

Kimmy Fasani, thank you so much. Beautiful, beautiful job.

FASANI: Thank you so much.

WHITFIELD: And I love all the illustrations and the graphics as well. And just the really -- the real beauty of what the mountains bring. Thank you.

FASANI: Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

WHITFIELD: And we'll be right back.

[16:54:27]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): After 2025 began with the worst urban wildfire in American history, thousands of burned-out families and businesses across Los Angeles County are wondering what comes next. And studying what survived.

(on camera): Greg, I'm standing in front of your creation, and it looks like it was sort of airlifted in here after the fire. It is so relatively unscathed. How much of that is luck? How much of that was by design?

(voice-over): After this Pacific Palisades' house went viral for its survival, architect Greg Chasen told me that the vacant lot next door was a fire break made of luck. But the house is a definition of fire adaptation, with a wall instead of a picket fence around native landscaping. Tempered glass windows with metal frames.

(on camera): It's striking how clean the lines are, and that is advantageous when it comes to blowing embers. There's just less to get hung up on, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I really think it is.