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U.S. and Ukraine Hold Peace Talks in Saudi Arabia; IDF Intensifies Ground Offensive in Southern Gaza; President Trump Ramps Up Criticism of Judicial Branch; GOP Senator Says Party Not Being Honest on Social Security. Former Pentagon Official Believes Trump Administration to Reveal Proof of UFO; Pope Makes First Public Appearance Since Hospitalization; Democrats Pressure Jeffries to Sharpen Party's Strategy; Elon Musk Sticks by Trump's Side as Tesla Comes Under Fire. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired March 23, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

UNKNOWN: -- when it comes to blowing embers, there's less to get hang up on, right?

UNKNOWN: I really think it is. A lot of the other new houses that burned in the area, they have gable upon gable upon gable. It just creates more and more areas for fire and embers to collect and to damage.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: The whole story with Anderson Cooper airs tonight 8:00. All right, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. The "CNN Newsroom" continues now with Jessica Dean

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: You're in the "CNN Newsroom." I'm Jessica Dean in Washington. We begin tonight with a renewed diplomatic push to end Russia's war on Ukraine. Ukrainian and U.S. Officials just wrapping up talks in Saudi Arabia. It's just one day ahead of a Russian delegation arriving for talks with the U.S.

Now this is happening after Ukraine endured another night of attacks with Russia launching 147 drones, killing at least three people. That's according to Ukrainian authorities. CNN senior White House reporter Kevin Liptak is joining us now. And, Kevin, tell us more about what we're learning about these talks and just how optimistic the Trump administration is that they can actually get a deal done here.

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, certainly, listening to officials speaking this morning from the Trump administration, they do continue to cast a positive spin on progress towards a ceasefire between Russia and Ukraine. Now these talks that are unfolding in Saudi Arabia today and tomorrow are considered technical talks, so these are not the highest level advisers within all three governments, but what the U.S. is hoping to do is mediate some of the modalities when it comes to different components of this proposed ceasefire that would allow for negotiations to a permanent end to the war. One of them is this pause on attack on energy infrastructure that

President Trump agreed with President Putin in a phone call last week to come to some kind of agreement on. They're also discussing this with the Ukrainians. Some questions remain unanswered about who exactly will enforce that pause, when precisely it will go into effect. And so they will want to talk about this as they work with all of the teams there in Riyadh.

They hope to eventually move to a discussion of ceasefire in the Black Sea, a pause on attacks on ports there so that ships carrying grain and fuel will be able to resume trade in an important sort of component of an eventual pause in the fighting there. Of course, all of this is leading to potential bigger talks on that 30-day ceasefire that Ukraine has already agreed to that President Trump has backed, but which Putin says he still has some conditions that he wants to see applied to it.

Now, Donald Trump speaking on Air Force One last night did express optimism that this was heading in the right direction and continued to cast himself as the only person who could bring this war to an end. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: He took Crimea, and he took Georgia when Bush was president, when Obama was president. And he's trying to take the whole thing based on -- and I think I'll -- I don't think there's anybody in the world that could've stopped him except me, and I think I hope I'm going to be able to stop him. That's a very rational discussion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIPTAK: Now, all of the president's discussions with Putin have spooked some European leaders, but according to his foreign envoy, Steve Witkoff, the president still believes that Putin is a fair arbiter towards peace. And as he said earlier this morning, he does not believe that Putin wants to take all of Europe, so continuing to cast a somewhat credulous view towards the Russian leader, Jessica.

DEAN: All right. Kevin Liptak at the White House. Thank you very much. And joining us now is CNN Global Affairs analyst Brett McGurk. He's the former Middle East and North Africa coordinator for the National Security Council and lead negotiator of the Israel Hamas hostage deal. Brett, thanks so much for being here with us this afternoon.

I do want to start with these talks happening in Saudi Arabia. We know Ukraine's Defense Minister says that the agenda includes protecting energy facilities and infrastructure. As we just walked through, we've continued to see attacks by both sides this week. What do you think it ultimately takes to get a deal to the finish line here?

BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, thanks, Jessica. I think it's important. About two weeks ago, Ukraine agreed to a full 30-day ceasefire that can be extended. And in the readout of that meeting, the U.S. side said its now Russian reciprocity is the key to achieving peace. And so far, we have not seen a Russian reciprocity. I think the Russians are trying to rope a dope a little bit here, talking about a much more narrow ceasefire.

But look. I think it's good these talks are ongoing in Saudi Arabia. The Ukrainian defense minister just stated that those talks were productive, and tomorrow, the American side will meet with the Russians. You want to try to get that ceasefire in place, that more narrow one. They're talking about the Black Sea. That's much more important for the Russians than Ukrainians because much of the Russian navy Black Sea fleet is on the bottom of the Black Sea, so they really want that ceasefire.

[17:04:58]

Look, this process has some ways to go. I think it's very important what Trump just said in that interview that that was just highlighted. You know, he said, Putin is trying to take the whole thing, meaning Ukraine, and he said I hope I'm able to stop him. That's really the key here. Putin ultimately has to be stopped or there's unlikely to be a sustainable peace.

DEAN: And this week, the U.K. hosted talks on a potential peacekeeping force. Obviously, the concern is that Putin could invade again and potentially go further as you were just talking about. I want to listen to what U.S. envoy Steve Witkoff said. This is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE WITKOFF, U.S. SPECIAL ENVOY: I simply have said that I just don't see that he wants to take all of Europe. This is a much different situation than it was in World War II. In World War II there was no NATO. So I just -- you have countries that are armed there. To me, it just doesn't -- I take him at his word in this sense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Do you think it's safe for Witkoff to take Putin at his word?

MCGURK: Look, Steve Witkoff has one of the most difficult jobs imaginable, trying to end a war, trying to end a war that we're not a party in. So you know, and he's acting at the behest, as he says, of President Trump trying to execute that policy. So it's important for him, to engage with President Putin. Absolutely. Look, what happened in London this week, though, was important.

It was a number of European allies and Japan and New Zealand and Australia talking about a potential peacekeeping force in a ceasefire scenario. I think that's good. That's important. I think that's something the United States should stand behind. So there are tools here. But, look, this will take time. It was only about a little over two months ago, I was still in the White House, actually, working with Steve Witkoff on the Gaza ceasefire.

So it's pretty early here. And, I think we all want this to succeed. We want the war to stop. You can armchair quarterback one move or another, but the talks are ongoing this week in Saudi Arabia, and let's see what comes out of them.

DEAN: I also do -- you bring up the Middle East, so I want to talk about that with you as well. We know Israel is intensifying its military operation in southern Gaza. A Hamas official or Hamas saying that a senior political figure was killed with those strikes, 59 hostages still remain in Gaza. How do you assess Israel's return to action and just what we're seeing in that region right now?

MCGURK: Well, Jessica, honestly, it's tragic. It's heartbreaking. We want to see the ceasefire get back. And there's one formula that's actually pretty simple to get the ceasefire back in place. There's a formula on the table where Hamas can agree to release a number of hostages. There's 25 living hostages still in Gaza. They can release a set number, and you'll have another 40 to 50 days of a ceasefire to negotiate the ultimate arrangements to end the war.

I know a lot about this agreement that's in place. To get to phase two, which they're talking about right now, the agreement says you have to agree on the conditions for phase two. The conditions for phase two mean Hamas ultimately has to relinquish its power and authority over Gaza. I know that's hard. You know, Fatah, the legitimate Palestinian ruling authority in the West Bank stated just yesterday, really, for the first time, that Hamas must relinquish its authority over Gaza for the sake of Gazans and to get a ceasefire in place. That is critical.

There are talks ongoing behind the scenes here. What Israel is doing is targeting very deliberately the leaders of Hamas that are purporting to be part of the pull up bureau that would control Gaza once the war is over. Hamas will not be in charge of Gaza once the war is over. That is impossible. Israel's making that clear. But the path here back to the ceasefire is a hostage release. It's really as simple as that.

DEAN: And how do you convince Hamas to agree to not rule over Gaza when this is all over? How do you get them to yes on that?

MCGURK: Well, look, it's going to take time. It takes a negotiation. It takes pressure from the regional partners. Egypt is working on a plan together with the Arab states about an interim Arab force that the U.S. can actually back and enable. But ultimately, Hamas has to relinquish its authority.

Now the way Hamas handled the actual ceasefire was just grotesque. I mean, they came out of the tunnels in full military gear, asserting their authority. And then as soon as the ceasefire breaks down, you can't see Hamas. They're all back in their tunnels. At the end of the day, Jessica, for the good of Gazans for -- have any hope for peace, any hope for peace, Hamas has to relinquish its authority.

It can still be there in some form as a political entity, but it cannot be the controlling authority in Gaza. There's no path to peace without that key precondition being set. It'll take a lot of pressure and a lot of negotiation, and that's why this is so hard. That's why I spent much of the last year of my life, between Israel Doha and Cairo trying to get this agreement in place.

DEAN: I was going to say you are one of the few people in the world who know just how tricky this one is, how difficult it is to get everybody to the table and to agreement. Brett McGurk, thank you so much. We really appreciate it.

MCGURK: Thank you, Jessica.

DEAN: Still ahead, President Trump ramping up his pressure campaign on judges and law firms.

[17:09:58]

Plus, one Republican senator says politicians are, in his words, not being honest when they say they won't touch Social Security. We'll discuss this with our panel.

And a Pentagon UFO whistleblower now telling CNN why he thinks Donald Trump will help reveal more about what the government knows about nonhuman pilots.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:14:57]

DEAN: It has been a whirlwind week for the judicial system as President Trump ramps up his attacks on judges and law firms. Last night, he reignited his feud with U.S. District Judge James Boasberg accusing him of having a, quote, "conflict of interest." This after Judge Boasberg demanded answers from the White House on why the administration ignored his court orders and used a wartime law to send undocumented immigrants to a notorious prison in El Salvador.

It's not the first time the president has attacked Judge Boasberg. In a series of posts on Truth Social this week, the president flung insults and smears against him, even calling for his impeachment. Now that led to a rare rebuke from Supreme Court Chief justice John Roberts. Also this week, the president ordered Attorney General Pam Bondi to review the conduct of lawyers and law firms who engage in what the president describes as, quote, "frivolous and unreasonable litigation." And the pressure campaign appears to be working.

The president rescinded an executive order suspending security clearances for lawyers and staff at several law firms over their use of DEI policies after one of the nation's most prominent law firms, Paul Weiss, agreed to give $40 million worth of pro bono work for causes favored by the White House. The unprecedented nature of all of this is drawing out fierce criticism from members of the legal world.

In a scathing "New York Times" op-ed, retired federal appeals court judge and prominent conservative legal scholar, J. Michael Luttig, accused the president of declaring war on the judiciary system saying, quote, "He has provoked a constitutional crisis with his stunning frontal assault on the third branch of government and the American system of justice." On that note, let's bring in some guests to discuss this. Pete Seat, former White House spokesperson for president George W. Bush and senior political commentator and Democratic strategist, Maria Cardona. It is good to have both of you here. Thank you. Pete, I want to start first with you. President Trump and other Republicans calling for these judges, these federal judges to face impeachment for ruling against the administration. And this is -- would you consider this the most explicit clash that we've seen so far between the judicial and executive branch?

PETE SEAT, FORMER WHITE HOUSE SPOKESPERSON FOR PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: It is the most explicit but not the final clash. I think this second Trump presidency will be defined in the end by those clashes between the executive branch and the judicial branch. You have an administration and a president that is strong in their conviction that they have a mandate from the voters to act particularly on the issue of illegal immigration and deporting from this country those who have committed violent acts, and they are moving with expediency to tackle that issue, an issue that previous presidents and congresses have been unable to address.

And the public is looking at this and seeing at courts that are trying to tie the president's hands, which I think is why the president is going to relish the political side of this. And, you know, as you mentioned, this is not the first time that he has made comments about this particular judge or other judges. Whenever Donald Trump is a private citizen, a candidate, or even as president disagrees with a judicial decision, he goes on the offense politically because he thinks it scores points for him in the polls.

DEAN: And, Maria, what do Democrats do? Do they capitalize on this?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely, they should capitalize on this, Jessica, because it's nothing less than disgusting what Trump and his MAGA allies are doing. They are putting judges' lives in danger. We have already seen tragedy strike, judges and their families because Trump puts a target on their back. And frankly, I think that we collectively need to send a box of fifth- grade civics textbooks to the administration for them to understand and to learn that the judicial branch is there to actually judge them, is there to actually determine whether the actions that they are taking are unconstitutional or not.

And so they don't have to like it. The Trump administration does not have to like what the judges say and what they determine and their calls, but they do have to pay attention to them. They do have to obey them. And we're seeing in polls that the one thing that unifies the country, including Republicans, is they do not like the notion of Donald Trump ignoring a judicial order, talking about impeaching judges, and speaking down about this third equal branch of the government because most Americans understand the role that judges have.

If judges weren't there, then we wouldn't have a democracy. We would have a dictatorship. We would have an imperial presidency. We would have a king. And therein lies the reason why Donald Trump hates these judges that are making all of these calls against him because a king is exactly what he wants to be, and the American people are not going to go for it.

[17:20:08]

DEAN: And, Pete, President Trump, look, there are other presidents that have been frustrated when district courts have ruled against the Democrats. Like, that has happened before. But the railing against these judges, calling for their impeachment, trying to make the case that this is a corrupt system or there are corrupt judges. Does President Trump run the risk of really undermining what is such a pillar of democracy?

SEAT: They are a pillar of democracy, and I agree for once with Maria. It is a coequal branch of government, and their job is to ensure the constitutionality of decisions that are made by the executive and legislative branches. But I go back to the fact that Americans are looking for strong and decisive leadership. They are fed up with the glacial pace at which Washington operates. And sometimes, that glacial pace is because judges and courts put their politics ahead of actual sound policy.

In this case, the immigration issue, Americans --

(TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES)

-- and are right that he cannot deliver on the mandate that he was given to remove from this country those who have committed violent acts and are here illegally. This will likely get to the Supreme Court. It will be adjudicated there in the end as will other issues. We'll have to wait till that day comes, but we'll have the political adjudication here on CNN and elsewhere in the meantime.

DEAN: Yeah. I want to also ask about a couple other issues. Maria, a major focus for house Republicans is this budget bill, obviously, that Democrats are going to have to kind of sit on the sidelines for because they're going to do it with this process that requires only Republican support. But I do want to listen to what Republican Senator John Curtis of Utah said about Republicans when talking about Social Security. This is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN CURTIS (R-UT): We're not being honest when we look people in the eye and say we're not going to touch it. If we don't touch it, it touches itself. You know that, right? That's not being honest with the American people. And I think that's one of the things that makes them not trust us when we say something that they just know is not true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Were you surprised to hear him say that?

CARDONA: Well, finally, a kernel of truth from Republicans. Absolutely, they're going to touch it because it's the only way that they're going to be able to find the more than $880 billion that they are going to need if they're not going to touch defense, and they need that money in order to give Elon Musk and their billionaire cabinets and the other group of their rich friends the massive tax cuts and taxpayer giveaways that they promised.

They are going to have to raid Social Security and that's going to be an issue. That's going to be a winning issue for Democrats going into the 2026 midterm elections and beyond.

DEAN: Pete, what did you think about Senator Curtis' comments?

SEAT: It's about time someone said it. Social Security is on a barreling train to insolvency. Politicians have failed us for decades on this issue, and it's because they refuse to take the political hits. I'm reminded of something that the former prime minister of Luxembourg was famous for saying, and that is we know exactly what we need to do. We just don't know how to get reelected once we've done it.

Everyone knows what needs to be done to fix Social Security and ensure its long term solvency, but they'd rather -- Democrats would rather run these silly ads like they did a couple cycles ago showing grandma getting pushed off a cliff. That's not serious policy making. That's politics, and --

CARDONA: That's the reality, Pete.

SEAT: -- congratulations to Senator Curtis for being honest.

DEAN: All right.

CARDONA: That's the reality.

SEAT: It's not the reality.

CARDONA: Yes, it is.

SEAT: Decisions are going to have to be made to ensure that this program does not go insolvent --

CARDONA: We could all come together -- we could all come together and decide that billionaires can actually give their fair share. And if they do that, then we could absolutely make Social Security solvent --

SEAT: A mental blip. That is a blip.

CARDONA: -- and make sure that Medicaid and Medicare and every single other program that working class families count on are there for them, which is exactly what Trump promised and he is now betraying them and actually knifing them in the back because he's going to do exactly the opposite.

DEAN: Okay. We could talk more about this --

SEAT: Just in generous argument.

DEAN: We could talk more about it. Unfortunately, we're out of time. But Pete and Maria, I do appreciate you both. More time next time. Thank you so much.

CARDONA: Thanks, Jessica.

DEAN: Still ahead, how is Elon Musk going over with voters? We're going to talk with a pollster and communication strategist about if Musk is weighing down President Trump, what the American people think. You're in the "CNN Newsroom."

[17:24:56]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUIS ELIZONDO, FORMER PENTAGON MILITARY INTELLIGENCE OFFICIAL, RAN UFO UNIT: My name is Luis Elizondo. And for nearly quarter of a century, I worked with the United States government in the intelligence field. One of my jobs was to help run the advanced aerospace threat identification program for the Pentagon. It was there that I learned the reality that UFOs exist. Let me be clear, UAP are real.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On 11/13/2024, Elizondo testified as part of the U.S. House Committee on Oversight and Accountability Hearing on Unidentified Anomalous Phenomenon exposing the truth. It was the second congressional hearing on UAP to feature witness and whistleblower testimony. Late U.S. senator Harry Reid vouched for Luis Elizondo's involvement and leadership role in investigating UAPs.

[17:30:00]

VALENCIA: You have made claims that non-human intelligence aircraft exists and that there have been federal employees that have been --

ELIZONDO: Correct.

UNKNOWN: -- insured on this crash.

ELIZONDO: Yes. That's correct.

UNKNOWN: Have non-human bodies associated with UAP crash craft retrievals been recovered?

ELIZONDO: There have been recovered biological samples from crashes.

UNKNOWN: That sounds crazy.

ELIZONDO: Well, it may sound crazy, but it doesn't mean it's not true. When you say bodies, people think an intact body. Right? Two arms, two legs, and bilateral symmetry. I -- I prefer to say biologics. I was not around for the recovery of that. It was before my time.

VALENCIA (voice-over): Critics have questioned Elizondo's credibility and intentions. Some have even suggested he is still working with the government to control efforts to shape public discourse around UAP. Last year, Elizondo testified to Congress that he -- quote -- "managed a special access program on behalf of the White House and the National Security Council in his most recent government position."

You've heard the criticism that some people think that you're deliberately misleading the public. Are you working on behalf of the government in a (INAUDIBLE) program?

ELIZONDO: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. And I'll put myself on a polygraph tomorrow.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): There's a whole fleet of them. Look on the S.A. My gosh.

VALENCIA: I think people want that smoking gun. They want a non-human

(LAUGHTER)

-- intelligent life form shaking hands with the president. They want a photo of that. Are we ever going to get that?

ELIZONDO: Right. I think for some people, they're never going to have their form of disclosure until that occurs. But I would submit to you that -- that disclosure is not an event. It's not a single event. It's a process. And I think we are well down that road.

There were five performance observables: instantaneous acceleration, hypersonic velocity, trans-medium travel. Right? Low observability, anti-gravity.

VALENCIA (voice-over): Over the last year, Elizondo has made multiple media appearances and written a book. He is currently traveling the U.S. on a speaking tour about his decade-long career studying UAPs for the Pentagon.

ELIZONDO: And you paid for it, your tax dollars. And it frustrates me because you paid for something that you deserve the results of.

(Voice-over): The U.S. government is in possession of exotic technology, technologies that are not consistent with current state- of-the art technology.

VALENCIA (voice-over): Elizondo says the UAPs he has observed move in ways no other current state-of-the art technology can. He says for 70 years, the government has been lying about the existence of being in possession of the technology.

ELIZONDO: These things are coming into controlled U.S. airspace completely unchallenged and are conducting what we consider is perhaps some sort of reconnaissance on our military equities, but more importantly, may even have the capability to interfere with our nuclear strike capabilities.

These phenomena are occurring in the vicinity of sensitive military and government installations. That's not Lou Elizondo telling you. That's your government telling you this. VALENCIA (voice-over): Elizondo says more whistleblowers who were also part of government programs studying UAPs will continue to come forward.

ELIZONDO: Now, the government is finally coming forward, fortunately, so they're actually starting to back up a lot of the -- what I've -- what I've been saying the last seven years. Thank God. I think some people are beginning to wise up.

VALENCIA: What do you think disclosure might look like during the second Trump administration?

ELIZONDO: This administration is very proactive on trying to get to the bottom of this. There are key members on the Cabinet that are very interested and are very motivated to continue to learn more about this this incredible mystery, this phenomenon that we've been dealing with for decades.

VALENCIA: Elizondo claims that part of the reason the U.S. government hasn't been more vocal about the existence of UFOs or UAPs is why present a problem to the American public for which there is no solution. He is, however, confident that this second Trump administration will make disclosure a priority and that in 2025, more about UFOs will be revealed.

Nick Valencia, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Chris Lamb in London and bringing you the latest from Pope Francis's hospitalization, which ended today in the Gemelli Hospital. Pope Francis made an appearance to the crowd that had gathered at the hospital where he had been for the last five weeks. The pope coming onto the balcony, greeting the crowd, saying a few brief words to a lady he noticed carrying white -- sorry, yellow flowers. And then he left the hospital, and he was driven back to the Santa Marta, his residence in the Vatican.

The pope has been ordered by doctors to have at least two months of convalescence and recovery after this battle that he had with pneumonia in both of his lungs. The 88-year-old pope undergoing a really serious health crisis. Doctor said that on two occasions, his life was in real danger. But the pope has battled through that crisis over the last several weeks, and he is back in the Santa Marta after what has been the longest hospitalization of his pontificate.

Now the doctors are saying that he must not meet with large groups of people because there's a risk of infection. It is expected that the pope, during his convalescence and into the future, is going to have to find a new way of being the pope. [17:40:02]

He's going to have to reduce his workload. He's going to have to think very carefully about the commitments that he takes on.

Of course, before hospital, the pope was operating at a frenetic pace of meetings with different people and having audiences. Of course, the Catholic church is in the middle of a jubilee year in Rome with many pilgrims coming to Rome and hoping to see the pope. And, of course, Easter, the high point of the Catholic church's liturgical year is coming up very soon. It's not clear whether the pope will undertake or lead any of those services. He may well make an appearance, but it's unlikely that he will actually lead those services.

So, the next several weeks, an uncertain period still for the Vatican and the church as the pope continues to recover from this bout of pneumonia, but clearly very good news that the pope is back after what has been a really very difficult time for him in hospital with pneumonia.

We're going to have more news after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: As tensions rise within the Democratic Party, some top Democrats are urging House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries to take over the lead from Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer and more forcefully lead the charge against the Trump White House.

CNN's Manu Raju has the latest on this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Democrats are struggling with their way forward. They're trying to figure out what their strategy is as they try to battle Donald Trump, as they hear all these voter concerns. Their own voters saying that they are simply not doing enough to push back against Donald Trump. Of course, this was exacerbated in the aftermath of their handling of a republican spending bill to keep the government open.

Chuck Schumer, the Democratic leader on the Senate side, ultimately agreed to let that GOP bill pass. That prompted weeks, days of back and forth and attacks directed towards Chuck Schumer from Democrats.

And now, we are hearing that a lot of House Democrats want their leader of their caucus, Hakeem Jeffries, to take the reins back from Chuck Schumer and really lead the party's charge out of the minority, try to lay out a vision, what they consider a badly needed vision for a party facing a crisis of confidence from not just voters showing -- both sides of the aisle showing concerns about the democratic brand, concerns about the direction of the party, but their own voters themselves. Poll after poll is showing that they believe the party is headed in the wrong direction. But Democrats want Jeffries to help bring them out of the morass.

One of the things that we are hearing, my colleague Sarah Ferris and I, about the push by some Democratic members to actually lay out a policy vision, a blueprint for how they could retake the House next year, come up with a number of proposals that the party could all unite behind.

That could be a lot easier said than done. This is a party that is not on the same page about what they are actually -- what they actually agree on in some matters, but also on how to push back against Donald Trump, whether to fight him on everything, whether they should have gone down a government shutdown route that could have occurred by mid- March, that could have landed -- led for -- went on for some time, or whether they should stand firm and let Donald Trump battle them on pretty much everything and try to shift the focus back towards Donald Trump.

These strategic decisions have been debated for the past several months. Democrats have been unable to come up with a single solution on how to push back against Donald Trump. So that's going to be one of the urgent matters to discuss as they return to Washington this week.

One of the big focuses for Democrats in this next phase of battling Donald Trump is how to push back against the Trump agenda. There's a massive bill that Republicans are trying to put together on major tax overall, significant spending cuts, immigration policy, energy policy. Republicans are trying to wrap this up into one massive bill.

Democrats are trying to figure out their strategy to push back against this. They, of course, want focus on the issue of cuts to entitlement programs like Medicaid cuts. Republicans say that's not going to be part of the equation. Democrats say it absolutely will be. Watch that to be one area of unity for Democrats going forward.

That is something that Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries discussed on a private call just days ago in the aftermath of their flap over the government funding fight. But there will be other points of leverage that they got to figure out. There is going to be another battle to fund the federal government in the fall. That's months away, but something will come up rather quickly.

And also, how to raise the national debt limit. Republicans are trying to do it on their own, through their own process. But Democrats may be forced to be called on to help lift the national debt limit. How do they use their leverage in that case as well to avoid a debt default, but also get what Donald Trump to heed to their demands? All key questions that Hakeem Jeffries is facing at this moment.

And one thing that we heard from our reporting is that Nancy Pelosi, the former House speaker, had a suggestion for Jeffries. She told him to -- quote -- "use your power." In other words, if Donald -- if Chuck Schumer is going a different way, use your power, your leverage to try to be the one pushing ahead on the democratic agenda, sharpening your message, sharpening your strategy, don't be play second fiddle to Senate Democrats.

Manu Raju, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[17:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: These days, billionaire Elon Musk appears to be constantly by President Trump's side. Just last night, he traveled with the president to Philadelphia for the NCAA men's wrestling championships. This as the stock of muscle -- of Musk's company, Tesla, continues to tank and protesters are vandalizing cars and dealerships.

Joining us now, pollster and communications strategist Frank Luntz. Frankie -- Frank, thanks so much for being here with us.

[17:55:00]

If you look at the latest CNN polling on this, voters do not have a very favorable view of Musk. Now, he does certainly do better among Republicans there, you can see, but very poorly among Democrats and independents. What are you hearing from the people you're talking to in your groups?

FRANK LUNTZ, POLLSTER AND COMMUNICATIONS STRATEGIST: So, we are doing focus groups, and we are examining this. And let's be precise. As a businessman, as someone who started companies, someone who's innovative, he gets very high marks. As a politician or someone in government, they see that his approach and the language that he used is careless and not specific, and that's hurting him.

You go back five years, and Elon Musk was the most popular business person in the country. And, in fact, he was a hero among those age 40 and under. But over the last few years, as he has been more blunt in what he says and what he does, now that he has entered into the political and the governmental world, people are questioning whether he has too much power and in particular whether it's unchecked and whether he's unaccountable. So, businessman, good grades. Government's cutter, not so good.

DEAN: It is interesting and probably not surprising that once politics enters the fray and you're not simply a businessman anymore, you get political, that things do get politicized. And in this country, I don't have to tell you, you talk to these -- you know, Americans all the time. Ever -- any time things start to get politicized, there is real reputational and brand risk there.

LUNTZ: It's the same thing with the president. The agenda, the policies, the approach that he's seeking is supported by the American people. They do believe there's waste, fraud, abuse, and corruption in government. And they do want the bureaucracy reduced. But they don't want it done haphazardly. They don't want it done with a chainsaw, which is that prop that Elon used. They want it done carefully, respectfully, decently. And so, there's going to be a challenge that this administration is facing right now, not weeks from now, at this moment. If it chooses to engage in the same kind of rhetoric that basically says that all government is bad, all government employees should be put on notice, the public is going to say no. If this is about more efficient, more effective and more accountable government, the public says yes. How the president communicates is going to determine whether or not the public backs him or opposes him.

DEAN: And I hear you when you say that their questions surround, you know, does he have too much power? Is it an unchecked power? You know, I also wonder if they -- if there are questions about, like, you know, was he elected -- does he have as much power as the person who was elected? Is that where the rub is, too, for people? Is this idea of almost unchecked power that makes them uncomfortable?

LUNTZ: It seems to be that way. But if you push people, is it being done with empathy? Is it being done with compassion? Look, Americans are angry, and they're more angry now than they've been at any time in 20 or 30 years. And they want significant change.

So, they like the fact that this administration is taking an aggressive approach to the challenges that they prioritize. But what they don't like is a sense of meanness or politicization, as you spoke of, because then it's not just about what you do, it is about how you do it. It's not just about what you say, it's about what people hear and the impact on them.

And make no mistake, with the budget having to be cut significantly and with tax cuts, the public is going to be looking for how they are impacted individually and whether or not the administration seems to hear, recognize, understand, and appreciate public opinion. The agenda is correct. The intensity for the American people is correct. How it's being done and how it's being talked about is not.

DEAN: All right. Fascinating stuff. Frank Luntz, always great to talk to you. We really appreciate your time.

LUNTZ: Thank you. Appreciate it.

DEAN: Uh-hmm. Well, tonight, a new episode of the CNN Original Series, "Twitter: Breaking the Bird," focuses on Twitter's presence at the forefront of political and social activism, all while its leadership was navigating the difficulties of monitoring and mitigating the hate and harassment that existed on the platform. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Every single company carries the DNA of its founders, and its founders were a bunch of dysfunctional friends.

BIZ STONE, CO-FOUNDER, TWITTER: Both Jack and I were fired. And then we had this whole thing with Dick taking over. And so now, the CEO is a guy that we hired from outside of Twitter. So, I'm like the only founder who's left. I was like, what am I doing? What should -- what should I do? You know?

EV WILLIAMS, CO-FOUNDER, Twitter: I think it was a rational decision to replace me as CEO.

[18:00:00]

But it was very messy. It's -- it's my company. And somehow, I'd lost enough control to be fired without notice. It was crazy. I failed at the biggest thing I've ever done. I was just mortified for a long time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: A new episode of "Twitter: Breaking the Bird" is tonight at 10 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on CNN. The next hour of "Newsroom" starts right now.