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Trump Meets With Salvadoran President Bukele; Salvadoran President Says He Can't Return Abrego Garcia; New Tariff Whiplash As Trump's Showdown With China Deepens; Moscow Ramps Up Attacks On Ukraine Amid Talks With U.S.; Israeli Airstrike Hits Hospital In Gaza City; Bernie Sanders Urges Coachella Crowds To Fight Trump Policies. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired March 27, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:56]

MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: Hello and welcome. I'm Max Foster. This is CNN NEWSROOM.

And beginning tonight with U.S. President Donald Trump and his meeting with El Salvador's president, Nayib Bukele. The two leaders are discussing U.S. deportations to a Salvadoran mega prison, with President Trump praising his counterpart and saying he'd like to see El Salvador build more prisons.

And in what's sure to be a controversial idea, Mr. Trump is also floating the idea of sending all types of homegrown criminals to El Salvador.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'd like to go a step further. I mean, I say, I said it to pam, I don't know what the laws are. We always have to obey the laws, but we also have homegrown criminals that push people into subways, that hit elderly ladies on the back of the head with a baseball bat when they're not looking, that are absolute monsters. I'd like to include them in the group of people to get them out of the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Joining us, Stephen Collinson, our interpreter on that event, because -- is he talking about us criminals being sent abroad?

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: He does. And there are all sorts of constitutional reasons why that might not be allowed. But what we're seeing right now is that the Trump administration is getting very close to defying the courts on multiple fronts, and especially on this issue of El Salvador. The two presidents discussed the case of this Maryland man who's an undocumented migrant, but was picked up and deported to El Salvador despite a judge's order that he can't be deported to El Salvador, the Supreme Court said the administration needs to facilitate his return.

And you have both of those presidents sitting in the Oval Office saying that they don't have power to return him from this El Salvadorian mega prison. So that sets up quite close to a constitutional showdown in the United States. And I think Bukele is an example of the kind of president that for much of the modern era, would have been shunned by the president of the United States. Not welcome to the Oval Office.

FOSTER: What -- I mean -- so this person is caught between two jurisdictions. Is that what we're saying here?

COLLINSON: Well, he was, as I said, he was an undocumented migrant. And there was a hearing about five years ago on his status in which the immigration authorities cited an unnamed informant to say that he was a gang member. That's the Trump administrations justification for sending him away.

But at that time, the judge also said that he can't be sent back to El Salvador because he would face persecution. And obviously, you can't deport someone unless you have an agreement to some other countries. So, what the Trump administration basically did was defy the judge's order, sent him to El Salvador, the man's family appealed this all the way up to the Supreme Court. And the Supreme Court told the administration, you have to facilitate his return.

Now, facilitate is a word that has all sorts of meanings that the White House can wriggle out of. And that's what they're trying to do. The idea that Bukele and Trump somehow between them, couldn't get this man out of the prison and send him back to the United States is absurd. But, of course, the administration doesn't want to send him back to the United States. They're trying to send a message of ultimate toughness on immigration, and to admit that they made a mistake, or they defied the judge's order by sending this man to El Salvador. That would undercut a lot of the Trump administration's hard line policies.

So, this is about politics. But ultimately, there is a man who is in this Salvadoran prison against the orders of the U.S. justice system and the president of the United States isn't doing anything to get him back.

FOSTER: Yeah, that really is the rub, isn't it? As Stephen was saying there.

Thank you, Stephen.

Neither the White House nor President Bukele says they will return a man who was wrongly deported from Maryland to El Salvador, despite the U.S. Supreme Court order that he was talking about there. Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia is currently in a Salvadoran prison, but the U.S. attorney general says it's not her responsibility.

And El Salvador's president says it's not in his power to return him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAM BONDI, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: It was a paperwork. It was additional paperwork had needed to be done. That's up to El Salvador if they want to return him. That's not up to us.

The Supreme Court ruled president, that if, as El Salvador wants to return him, this is international matters, foreign affairs. If they wanted to return him, we would facilitate it, meaning provide a plane.

NAYIB BUKELE, EL SALVADORAN PRESIDENT: How can I return him to the United States like I smuggle him into the United States? Or what do I do? Of course, I'm not going to do it.

It's like, I mean, the question is preposterous. How can I smuggle a terrorist to the United States? I don't have the power to return him to the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Joining us now, CNN senior U.S. national correspondent, David Culver.

You've just been to El Salvador, David. I mean, how is this being interpreted there?

DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Max, first, if you look at that back and forth in the oval office, it was a bit strange because it felt as though all the parties were talking about each other, as though they weren't in the room, when really, those who are the most powerful, President Trump and President Bukele were sitting right next to each other, and arguably they're the ones, more than anyone else, who can break through red tape and pride themselves on doing so in order to do something like this.

I think there are two things at play, possibly. One is that the U.S. doesn't want to set a precedence here by returning a deportee. That could open up other legal issues. And/or two, that El Salvador has something more on Abrego Garcia. Now, why do I specify that I was just last there last week, as you mentioned, Max, and I was talking to two government officials who told me that they have further evidence that incriminates Abrego Garcia. When I asked to see it or for more details, they declined to give that.

One of the individuals there told me, though he's not going back, he will never leave here. Those were his exact words. Now, the attorneys for Abrego Garcia pushed back heavily on this. They say this is a fabrication. It's a lie that's coming from both the Salvadoran government and the U.S. and they say it's simply not true.

That aside, as you mentioned, he's currently in CECOT, which is the terrorism confinement center. This is a place I've been to now twice, and he's in an area called Sector 8, which is where the deportees from the U.S. are. When I was there six days ago, I asked to go into Sector 8. They said, that's off limits for now, but they took us into Sector 4, which is key in of itself, because it's the same infrastructure that you would see in Sector 8.

However, in Sector 4, we saw what are considered to be the worst of the worst. That's what El Salvador says those individuals are and they are Salvadoran gang members suspected to be part of 18th Street or MS- 13, and they're being held there, as El Salvador likes to say, for life, once you go into CECOT, you never leave. But in a casket.

That's often how it's portrayed with CECOT. It's a very dramatic and extreme measure to be placed there. And yet when you ask how people in El Salvador look at it, when they look at CECOT, they see it in the context that is El Salvador, and that is the brutality that existed in that country for years.

So many of them are actually appreciative of CECOT existing, and look at it as a symbol of newfound freedom, if you will. What is interesting in and of itself, though, within that is you have some people who look at the deportees coming in from the U.S. and they're a bit uneasy thinking that their prison is now being used to house prisoners from outside El Salvador. One person even telling me he's concerned that if there are real members of Tren de Aragua within CECOT, that if somehow they got out, it would once again reignite the gang violence that they dealt with for many years within El Salvador.

So, you have a lot of mixed opinions as to how CECOT is being used, but more than anything else, you have people who are incredibly proud of President Bukele. They adore him not only in El Salvador, but I've got to tell you, having been in Ecuador and Mexico, even in Haiti, you have people there who look at President Bukele as a symbol of freedom and as he likes to say, liberation.

But then it just raises the question, if somebody has that much power, why is he unable to go forward with releasing this one individual, Max.

FOSTER: Yeah, it was a fascinating press conference. David, thank you so much for joining us.

Now the on again/off again U.S. tariffs giving a case of whiplash. You're not alone in that if you're feeling it as the White House or the White House today, President Donald Trump will also once again promising new tariffs on semiconductors and pharmaceuticals, raising fears that prescription drugs, mobile phones and laptops could soon soar in price. That follows some confusing messaging over the weekend from a number of administration officials.

A quick look at the U.S. markets, and you can see that they are up. The Dow Jones up 1.25 percent.

China is working to capitalize on the chaos caused by these U.S. tariffs this week. Chinese President Xi Jinping is on a diplomatic tour of Southeast Asia, starting with Vietnam. The two nations are expected to sign about 40 trade agreements.

Before the pause, Vietnam was amongst the hardest hit by Mr. Trump's tariffs, set at 46 percent.

[15:10:04]

Richard Quest joining me from New York.

I mean, this is true mixed messaging, but also fascinating to see Xi really moving into the void here. RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR AT LARGE: Oh, completely. And not

only in Southeast Asia, the big fear in Europe and in the U.K. where you are is that China will now start dumping some of the things that they can't sell into the United States. Australia, ASEAN, Europe, China is going to be on the march looking for new markets where they can sell things.

At the same time, they're going to be trying to rope in new allies on the grounds that, hey, your best buddy, the United States, Uncle Sam, has done you badly. You know, come along with belt and road, come along with us. We will treat you better.

And it's difficult not to say that it's not -- it's not an attractive proposition because the U.S. capriciousness in the way it has changed its policy has been so head turning. It's been so damaging that many countries are starting to say, well, even a China that's not democratic, can it really be worse than this?

FOSTER: Yeah. On that mixed messaging from the White House on tariffs, I want to just play you this to get your reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president was asked and answered this yesterday. He said he's not considering an extension or a delay. There will be a 90-day pause on the reciprocal tariffs as these negotiations are ongoing.

PETER NAVARRO, WHITE HOUSE SENIOR COUNSELOR FOR TRADE AND MANUFACTURING: This is not a negotiation. This was done in a beautiful negotiation.

HOWARD LUTNICK, COMMERCE SECRETARY: The president is not going to back off. Negotiate is talking. No talking.

Donald Trump is the best negotiator that there is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: This is the uncertainty you were talking about last week, Richard.

QUEST: Yeah. And it continued over the weekend because you had Lutnick saying that the exemption -- well, let's just -- let's just look at it, Max, you had first of all, 145. Then they say, no, there's going to be no tariffs on electronics. But then they clarify and say, well, actually there are, the 20 percent.

Then, Lutnick says the exemptions will be temporary. Then somebody else says there'll be no exemptions. Then we come into this week and we hear that there'll be sectoral in terms of pharmaceuticals and semiconductors, which is electronics that we dealt with last week.

And still, we don't know. Oops, sorry. That's a bell -- that still we don't know exactly what the position is. So, the only thing -- the only certainty is the current moment. And

that is that electronics are subject to a 20 percent general tariff coming out of China. Thereafter, it pays your money, you takes your choice.

FOSTER: So why aren't the markets tanking today? They're up.

QUEST: Oh, because -- they're good. Good question. Very simple. The -- any relief is any relief in a port of storm. Just bear in mind how much they've been beaten up.

So, we know that there's, you know, at least in the immediate future, we know that Apple and others are not going to be paying the 145 tariff. They're only paying the 20 percent tariff. What's not baked into this price is the uncertainty of what comes next.

This is last week. I think I described it as a relief rally. That's all this is. It's another relief rally while we wait for the next shoe to drop.

FOSTER: Okay, Richard Quest, another busy day for you. Thank you for joining us.

We'll be back at the top of the hour.

Russian missiles, meanwhile, ripping through the city of Sumy. Ukrainian officials say this marks the deadliest single attack on Ukrainian civilians since 2023, killing at least 34 people, including children.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen explains how this attack further complicates diplomatic efforts between the U.S., Russia and Ukraine.

We want to warn you, some of the following images may be disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Sumy, Ukraine, Palm Sunday, shortly after 10:00 a.m., as folks were heading to mass, two missiles struck, killing and wounding scores.

We live in the city center, this eyewitness says. There is no military base. There are no soldiers here. It is simply a genocide. It is genocide.

After the explosions, mass carnage, first responders trying to help any survivors.

Ukrainian officials said preliminary information indicates Russia used a missile with a warhead packed with cluster munitions, weapons designed to harm people in a wide area.

Ukraine's president, livid.

Only filthy scoundrels can act like this, he said. Today, many state leaders, diplomats, regular people with big hearts expressed their sympathy towards Ukraine. They condemned the Russian attack.

PLEITGEN: But while many world leaders denounced the attack from President Donald Trump, a muted response.

TRUMP: I think it was terrible, and I was told they made a mistake.

[15:15:02]

But I think it's a horrible thing. I think the whole war is a horrible thing.

PLEITGEN: As mourners gathered in Sumy, laying flowers for the many victims, Moscow claims its army does not go after civilians and was instead targeting a high level military meeting.

There was another meeting of Ukrainian military leaders with their Western colleagues, the foreign minister says, who were either masquerading as mercenaries or I don't know who. There are NATO servicemen there and they are in direct control.

All this as the fighting on the front lines remains as brutal as ever. Russia, claiming its forces continue to make steady progress while President Trump's diplomatic efforts to broker a ceasefire appear to have hit a roadblock.

Unclear if any progress was made when Trump envoy Steve Witkoff met Russian leader Vladimir Putin on Friday. the Kremlin, downplaying expectations.

The whole journey consists of small steps to recreate an atmosphere of at least minimal trust, the Kremlin spokesman says. To strengthen this mutual trust.

But the Ukrainians say they are losing faith in the Trump administration.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I believe, sadly, Russian narratives are prevailing in the U.S. How is it possible to witness our losses and our suffering to understand what the Russians are doing and to still believe that they are not the aggressors, that they did not start this war?

PLEITGEN: And there are few signs the war could end soon. Just hours after the attack in Sumy, drones struck the port town of Odesa, wounding several people and causing major damage to scores of buildings.

Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Berlin.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Still to come, confusion over clarity. President Trump says nobody is getting off the hook when it comes to U.S. tariffs, but it doesn't appear that everyone in the administration is on the same page.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: More now on the economic uncertainty. The volatility following those mixed messages from the White House on U.S. tariffs. Last week, the Trump administration announced some tax exemptions on some electronics imported from China, such as iPhones. But President Trump today promised new tariffs soon on semiconductors and pharmaceuticals.

Let's turn to the White House now. CNNs chief U.S. national affairs correspondent, Jeff Zeleny. Is there a bit of an event going on I know behind you.

Richard talking about, you know, the -- you know, how difficult it is for investors to work out what's coming from there at the moment.

Hello, Jeff, can you hear me? Hi, Jeff. Can you hear me? He could.

Yeah. So, we have an event going on at the White House. It's the -- it's the college football champions going to the White House. So, a bit of a band as well.

Let's bring in Linda Yueh instead, the economist at the University of Oxford.

You can hear me, Linda, thankfully, hopefully.

We were hearing from Richard Quest earlier how it's so hard to make sense of what's coming from the White House at the moment. I mean, you take a much bigger view, a broader view of this. Not just on the U.S. economy, but on the world economy. How are things going to shape, do you think?

LINDA YUEH, ECONOMIST, OXFORD UNIVERSITY: Max, that's a really hard question. Normally the hard question, but I think with this administration, it's very hard to -- to know. I think President Trump today said he's not going to change course, but he's flexible. And interpreting what that means is quite challenging.

So the latest, of course, is that he may pause tariffs on cars because he doesn't want to hurt, as he says, companies in America. So, as you know, the 25 percent tariff on all cars imported into the United States has a significant impact, not just on consumers, but also on U.S. car manufacturers, because a lot of this trade is intermediate inputs that they need.

So, when you have statements come out like that, you can imagine there'll be a little bit of a relief because there might be a lowering of tariffs on a massive sector. But on the other hand, when he says this is temporary, people start to wonder just how temporary. And that's why you kind of see markets recover a little bit. But then I think the underlying tension is still there.

FOSTER: But isn't that, you know, you're cutting to the heart of it there, aren't you. If you -- if you're a U.S. manufacturer buying from China and you're questioning whether or not to build a new factory, or how can you make that decision in this environment? YUEH: That's absolutely spot on.

So, the problem with uncertainty is that firms hold off on investment and that dampens economic growth. This is why some economists, analysts and even the heads of U.S. banks think that the chances of a U.S. recession are growing just by companies holding back.

The second reason why this is particularly challenging is that the U.S. administration views a trade surplus with the U.S. is a proxy for unfair trade. So, the way that global value chains work is that you locate production in a country. You don't want to produce from China, so you put it in Vietnam. But that means Vietnam over the past few years has now has a significant trade surplus.

So, no matter what you do with your supply chains, you're likely to be targeted in the coming years. And then I would also say, finally, Nvidia, the massive semiconductor you know, chip company, they just announced they're going to make all of their chips in the United States. So, you may well see some reshoring like that, but it is economically less efficient to do that than what they were doing before.

FOSTER: You just mentioned Vietnam facing these massive tariffs. And that is going to weaken trade links between Vietnam and the U.S. and perhaps well look at a visit from. President Xi of China to Vietnam as being really significant, because this is the opportunity for Vietnam to find another source of income and it empowers the alternate economic superpower.

YUEH: Yeah. So, this is going to be the longer term trend. This is going to be a tension between the U.S. and China, each vying for influence. I think what will likely happen, though, is that China will try to open up its market a bit more. I say a bit more because China has not had very open markets.

But I think the challenge for lots of emerging markets is the U.S. continues to be the world's major consumer market.

[15:25:05]

So all of the frictions, all of the costs that's there doesn't necessarily mean that a more attractive market elsewhere. And so, this is why I think lots of countries are going to try and find some degree of being able to maneuver. But I think the economic impact of the U.S. taking these actions is going to be felt globally, regardless of what China or indeed the European Union try to do.

FOSTER: Okay, Linda, thank you, as ever, for joining us from Oxford today.

Now, Harvard University has rejected the Trump administration's demands to change its policies. And that's putting nearly 1 or $9 billion in federal funding at risk. A federal task force last week outlined changes to the school's policy and tied it to funding.

Brynn Gingras is following the story for us, joins us now with the details.

I mean, this is a pretty tough response from Harvard, and we know how it will go down.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We really don't. We're going to have to wait and see, Max.

But, look, we know that the Trump administration has gone after a number of universities, Cornell, Brown, Northwestern, basically, as they say, they're trying to fight antisemitism, how these schools handle antisemitism on their campuses, their DEI programs, how they handle transgender athletes on their campuses.

And so, they've, you know, targeted these schools, sent them a list of demands. We know this happened at Columbia, but Harvard by far has the most to losing -- risk of losing nearly $9 billion here is what we're talking about. And they sent that letter, the Trump administration, to Harvard on April 4th. Some of the demands that the Trump administration was requesting of the school was basically eliminating Harvard's DEI program, putting a ban on masks at campus protests, ending programs that, quote, fuel antisemitic harassment, according to the Trump administration.

But Harvard essentially saying here in a letter through their attorneys, no, we're not going to comply with this. We don't' care if it's going to risk our federal funding.

Now, when we saw this list of demands be put on schools like Columbia, Columbia came back to the Trump administration and tried to sort of negotiate if they could basically kind of do something that would acquiesce the Trump administration and not lose that funding. But Harvard outright saying that they're not going to do it. And it's the first school to take this kind of stance.

I want to read an excerpt from the very long letter that was sent to the Trump administration. It says, quote, the administration's prescription goes beyond the power. Of the federal government, and it threatens our values as a private institution devoted to the pursuit, production and dissemination of knowledge. No government, regardless of which party is in power, should dictate what private universities can teach, whom they can admit and hire, and which areas of study and inquiry they can pursue. So, we'll have to see how this all plays out in court.

Now, we do know, Max. Just last Friday, there was a group of professors from Harvard that sued the Trump administration over these demands. So we'll also be watching for that as well.

FOSTER: Yeah, absolutely. Huge amounts of money at stake. I think a lot of people didn't realize how much they were receiving. But thank you, Brynn.

GINGRAS: Yeah. All right.

FOSTER: Still to come, Israel's defense minister says troops are, in his words, cutting Gaza into parts, capturing more land as they force hundreds of thousands of Palestinians to flee.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:30:02]

FOSTER: Israel's military extending ground operations deep into Gaza, forcing hundreds of thousands of Palestinians to relocate into ever shrinking pockets of land. Israel's defense minister says troops are, quote, cutting Gaza into parts, making it smaller and more isolated as they try to force Hamas into freeing the remaining hostages. The U.N. says more than two thirds of Gaza is now under active displacement orders, or designated as no go areas. No humanitarian aid has been allowed into Gaza for six weeks and counting. For so many families, food, water and shelter are beyond their reach.

Israel's also escalated deadly airstrikes since a ceasefire deal collapsed last month. One of the latest targets was a hospital providing critical services in Gaza City.

Our Jeremy Diamond is in Jerusalem with more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, what was the last remaining fully functioning hospital in northern Gaza has now been put out of service by that Israeli airstrike on Sunday at Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital in Gaza City.

This is a hospital that once served about a thousand patients a day, with a bustling emergency room that has only become busier as Israeli attacks have ramped up in Gaza. But now only a few dozen patients are still being treated in that hospital, and the hospital isn't able to provide any emergency services whatsoever.

The Israeli military carried out an airstrike on this hospital on Sunday after giving about a 20-minute warning to that hospital. A boy with a head injury who was evacuated in in those 20 minutes actually died in that rushed evacuation process. We know of no other casualties as a result of that strike.

The Israeli military said it carried out this strike because there was a command and control center, a Hamas command and control center at this hospital. But they've provided no evidence to back up that claim.

And what they certainly haven't provided evidence of is the you know, military necessity and value added value of carrying out this strike when compared to the impact that this is going to have on Palestinian civilians and their access to health care in northern Gaza, the Israeli military, in just the last 24 hours or so, has struck about 35 targets inside the Gaza strip. And what we are also witnessing, of course, is these continued evacuation orders that are pushing Palestinian civilians into an ever shrinking portion of the Gaza Strip, where they simply are not finding the resources that they need.

And a lot of that stems from another layer of pressure that is being brought to bear on Gaza. And that is the fact that Israel has not allowed anything into the Gaza strip since March 2nd.

[15:35:01]

No food, no water, no medical supplies, and humanitarian officials are warning that we are rapidly approaching crisis levels inside of Gaza.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: I'm joined now by Fawaz Gerges, a professor of international relations at the London School of Economics. He's also author of "What Really Went Wrong: The West and the Failure of Democracy in the Middle East".

Thank you so much for joining us, Fawaz.

I just want to go back to that comment from Israel Katz that we heard today. Many areas have been captured and added to the security zones of the state of Israel, making Gaza smaller and more isolated.

What did you make of that?

FAWAZ GERGES, PROFESSOR, LONDON SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS: Well, thanks for having me, Max.

I don't -- I don't see why are we surprised by what the defense minister and the prime minister have been saying for a long time? They have made it very clear. They want to realize Trump's vision for Gaza. They want to displace the 2.4 million Palestinians out of Gaza.

This is now the policy of Benjamin Netanyahu and his far right extremist coalition. And they're using Donald Trump as a justification. I mean, think about it, for the past six weeks, no medicine, no water, no food, nothing has entered Gaza. Israel now publicly basically using starvation and medication as a weapon of war.

Just today, the World Health Organization have made it very clear 33 hospitals out of 36 have been damaged. Today, as you and I were talking, 250 former operators of Mossad, the intelligence services, including three former chiefs of Mossad, the intelligence service, have made it very clear that Benjamin Netanyahu and his cabinet basically have resumed the war against Gaza for political and personal reasons. And they have called on Benjamin Netanyahu to stop the war and prioritize the release of the Israeli hostages and the end of the war in Gaza.

FOSTER: And would it be over if the hostages were released, do you think?

GERGES: Made it very clear. And look, Max, I'm not defending Hamas here. Hamas has made it very clear Hamas is desperate to release all the hostages. In fact, today, one of the top Hamas leaders have said, well, look, we're ready to release all the hostages. We want the war to end. We want basically to end this particular tragedy.

But Benjamin Netanyahu wants all the hostages back, and he wants to continue the war because his overarching strategic goal is to expel Hamas from Gaza is to utterly destroy Hamas and depopulate Gaza. Benjamin Netanyahu and his extremist coalition, they want to resettle Gaza in the same way that they have resettled East Jerusalem and the West Bank.

So, while Hamas wants to end the war, Benjamin Netanyahu does not really want to end this war. And that's why he violated the ceasefire, which he signed with President Biden and Egypt and Qatar. Everyone knows this, including -- including millions of Israelis who have been protesting and pleading with Netanyahu to basically bring Israeli hostages home.

FOSTER: I also wanted to ask you about another big story were following out of the Middle East, and that is the talks on Iran's nuclear program. U.S. and Iranian negotiators gathering over the weekend in Oman and already have plans to meet again this coming Saturday. Where do you see the shift here?

GERGES: I mean, I think it's a very, very promising start. In fact, the start of talks, nuclear talks between Iran and the United States exceeded expectations. Both sides have described the talks as constructive and useful. There was a major encounter, direct encounter, between the Iranian foreign minister and Trump's envoy, Steve Witkoff, which lasted for 45 minutes. This was not just for a few minutes.

And there is another round in Rome on Saturday. And in fact, the expectation is that the next round in Rome could really see a -- an interim framework for a resolution. The reason why I am a bit hopeful and, of course, it's too early, there's a great deal of distrust between Iran and the United States, but I'm a bit hopeful because both sides do not really want war. This particular war between Iran and the United States, when and if it comes, could be catastrophically costly. So, neither Donald Trump wants war nor the Iranian supreme leader, Ali Khamenei, wants war. And I think both sides have a vested interest in reaching a deal.

[15:40:04]

FOSTER: Yeah, that's a positive news on that, isn't it?

Fawaz, thank you so much for joining us today.

Six crew members, ten minutes in space and millions of dollars. Blue Origin's latest flight has left me asking, what's the point?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: Katy Perry in space. Not exactly on my bingo card this morning during all our discussions before the show, but here we are.

The singer was part of a six-woman crew on a space tourism mission with Blue Origin. That's the company run by Amazon founder Jeff Bezos. The launch in Texas took the crew up more than 100 kilometers, or 60 miles, before the capsule landed again, roughly ten minutes later.

It's all getting a bit much for Perry, who kissed the ground on arrival and was clearly feeling the love.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATY PERRY, SINGER: I feel super connected to love, so connected to love. I think this experience has shown me you never know how much love is inside of you. Like how much love you have to give. And how loved you are until the day you launch.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Annette Toivonen is an expert in space tourism and the author of sustainable space tourism an introduction.

Thank you so much for joining us.

ANNETTE TOIVONEN, SPACE TOURISM EXPERT: Thank you so much.

FOSTER: I mean, the discussions we had about this story were really about what did it mean? It was if it was about space tourism, surely the idea is to say one day everyone will be in space. But these were extremely privileged people on a very expensive mission, and none of us could really relate to it.

TOIVONEN: Yes, indeed. I think, this was actually a good start of a new era for, let's say, for women and for kind of feminism as well.

So, congratulations first for all these brave ladies. This is a new sector of tourism that has literally just started. So, of course, there are a lot of safety issues still present. So that was really excellent to see that everything went according to the plan and such.

Also, the kind of way to think of how to actually maintain this kind of business in the future, because we are talking about the environmental impacts, all those to come that these new space companies are to face challenges of how is the public to react? This is obviously like elite activity at the moment, costing a lot and such.

But this was maybe I was just thinking the social sustainability. But we heard of what Katy said. Its all about love and its kind of bringing softer, values to the kind of hardcore high tech, robotic new space mission that, for example, Elon Musk has been presenting earlier.

FOSTER: But could they got the message across about space tourism better by offering someone completely random a ride, someone that you know would never expect to be amongst that crowd?

TOIVONEN: Well, I think it's to launch a new activity. Of course, you need to have the kind of the awareness rising kind of that this has now started and launched. So, this is the best way, obviously, marketing wise, to get some celebrities. I'm forecasting that there could be maybe some influencers very soon there as well, to maybe make some kind of videos to share in, you know, social media and such.

But yes, of course, like to think of the equal point of the view -- I mean, this is a very selective amount of people who are now invited to join. There have been some kind of like a charity lottery, ways of doing this, like Virgin Galaxy has had some lottery. Activities like normal people have been joining, but they haven't really caused as much media exposure as, for example, today's launch.

FOSTER: But you're an expert in space tourism. Was it a good day for you? I mean, did it make much difference to your work?

TOIVONEN: Well, I think it was really fun to see this whole. I was watching the launch and I was very happy, actually. I think this is a very kind of I think a Blue Origin especially has demonstrated kind of this more -- kind of a softer touch view of a point to kind of for this new activity.

So, I think it was -- it was a good feel, actually. Yes. I think it is, is my, my pioneering work because that's been quite challenging so far when activities like this haven't really taken place and it has been very kind of. Not as, related, like Katy Perry, a famous singer, and she expressing the verse in a very down to earth voice. I think we can all relate to that.

FOSTER: We can expect a song coming, I'm sure.

Annette, thank you so much for joining us.

TOIVONEN: Thank you so much.

FOSTER: There was drama on the golf course, one of the most exciting and unpredictable masters ends with a superstar finally getting his green jacket. A complete wrap up just ahead.

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[15:50:42]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): I'm here because Clairo has used her prominence to fight for women's rights, to try to end the terrible, brutal war in Gaza, where thousands. Thousands of women and children are being killed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Senator Bernie Sanders took to the stage ahead of singer songwriter Clairo to deliver a call to action for the thousands in attendance.

CNN's Gabe Cohen has the details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANDERS: Now, we've got a president of the United States who --

(BOOS)

SANDERS: I agree.

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): That's Bernie Sanders making a surprise appearance at Coachella Saturday night, where festival-goers booed the mention of President Donald Trump.

SANDERS: And the future of what happens to America is dependent upon your generation.

COHEN: It was an appeal to younger voters. The Vermont senator spoke ahead of singer songwriter Clairo Set. Sanders emphasized many of his long-standing political views, like economic inequality and universal health care, urging the audience to vote against Trump's policies.

SANDERS: We need you to stand up to fight for justice.

COHEN: The Coachella appearance comes just days after CNNs town hall, with Sanders as the senator continues his nationwide tour of political rallies with New York Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: There he is. Golfer Rory McIlroy has won his first Masters tournament and is now just the sixth player to ever complete the career grand slam, winning each of the sports' four Majors. But his elusive green jacket didn't come easy.

"WORLD SPORT's" Don Riddell has the full story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DON RIDDELL, CNN WORLD SPORT: I've been covering golf on CNN for more than 20 years, and I've been a fan of the game for my whole life, and I don't think I've ever experienced as much nerve-jangling drama and pure edge of the seat entertainment as this 89th Masters.

Here on Sunday, we quite literally saw it all at stake for Rory McIlroy, a place in the history books, the first green jacket and the chance to enter the pantheon of greats alongside Gene Sarazen, Ben Hogan, Gary Player, Jack Nicklaus, and Tiger Woods as the only men to win all four of the major tournaments. Standing in his way, that weight of history and the psychological scar tissue of a catastrophic meltdown here in 2011, when McIlroy blew a seemingly comfortable third round lead of four strokes.

There were moments of madness. A double bogey on the opening hole, with which McIlroy's two shot lead evaporated immediately. Another double on 13 seemed like it might derail him completely. Several times during the afternoon, his body slumped under the intolerable weight of expectation, and he sometimes looked to be on the verge of tears. And yet he kept bouncing back, producing a series of career defining shots to stay in the fight.

But with history in the palm of his hand, there was yet another misstep on 18 as he bogeyed the hole, setting up a playoff with Justin Rose, who'd come from seven shots behind. But once again, McIlroy recovered his composure, sinking a birdie putt on the first extra hole to win the tournament and complete one of the most emotional and extraordinary narrative arcs in all of sports.

RORY MCILROY, 2025 MASTERS CHAMPION: It feels incredible. You know, this is My 17th time here, and I started to wonder if it would ever be my time. And I think, you know, the last 10 years coming here with the burden of the grand slam on my shoulders and trying to achieve that. Yeah -- you know, I'm sort of wondering what we're all going to talk about going into next year's Masters.

RIDDELL: It would be hard to overstate the magnitude of this accomplishment and how hard it was to pull off. McIlroy is the first Masters champion who made four double bogeys in the tournament, and whereas the other grand slam golfers completed the set at either the first or the third time of asking, McIlroy needed 11 attempts.

That's why his emotion was so unbridled. This truly has been the most epic tournament to witness and experience here at Augusta National.

Back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Don clearly affected by that. It was an incredible match.

Now, finally, there is a new faculty in charge at Hogwarts. Each confirmed the first cast members for the new Harry Potter TV series. John Lithgow has been cast as Dumbledore, with Janet McTeer as Minerva McGonagall, and Paapa Essiedu as Snape. "Shape of the Dead" star Nick Frost also onboard playing Hagrid.

The new series will retell the stories from the original books, with an all-new cast and an all-new set, and there's no word yet on the official title or the release date. CNN and HBO are part of the same parent company.

Thanks for joining us here on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Max Foster.

"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" with Richard up next.