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DOGE To Hit DHS, Secret Service With Significant Cuts; Trump Golfs As Markets Plunge, Recession Fears Rise; Interview With "The Financial Times" Columnist Gillian Tett; White House Issues Trump Golf Game Results Amid Economic Turmoil; Trump At Golf Club For 3rd Day As Tariffs Ignite Economic Turmoil; White House Trade Adviser Defends Trump Tariffs; Trump: No Rush, But Musk's Going To "Have To Leave" At Some Point; Mark Carney Warns Old U.S.-Canada Relationship Is "Over"; Police Charge Russell Brand With Rape, Other Offenses Against 4 Women; "The War On Government" Airs Sunday At 8PM ET/PT. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired April 05, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:00:36]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: You're on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jessica Dean in New York.

President Trump spending the weekend at his golf course in Florida for a third straight day despite the stock market plunging, the global economy reeling and corporate America seething following a series of aggressive new tariffs.

Last night just after midnight, a new 10 percent tariff on all imports went into effect. And economists warn Americans are about to pay a lot more for virtually everything.

But this does not seem to faze the president. Yesterday we watched his motorcade leaving his Jupiter, Florida golf course as the markets plunged. The Dow falling by more than 2,200 points, posting its lowest back-to-back losses since the pandemic.

Today on Truth Social, the president posting this quote, "This is an economic revolution and we will win. Hang tough. It won't be easy, but the end result will be historic."

CNN's Betsy Klein is live now from West Palm Beach, Florida. We're going to talk about these tariffs in just a moment, Betsy, because I do want to get to that. But you also have some new reporting breaking right now on DOGE cuts. So start us off with that.

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE PRODUCER: Yes, Jessica. We are learning from multiple sources familiar with the matter that the Department of Homeland security could be DOGE's -- the Department of Government Efficiency's next target.

There are active discussions underway about staffing cuts between DOGE, the White House and senior DHS officials. Now, most strikingly, what we are learning is that that could impact

the U.S. Secret Service. Secret Service is bracing for what could ultimately amount to significant layoffs, sources tell us, but no final decisions have been made, including the scope and scale of those potential cuts.

But this comes, Jessica, at such a challenging time for the Secret Service. We have seen top officials testify on Capitol Hill about this unprecedented and dynamic threat environment. And we also know from talking to current and former agents about the low morale, staffing and retention issues, as well as burnout impacting the agency.

And perhaps most startlingly, this comes just weeks after they spent an unprecedented $2 million on a Super Bowl recruitment ad directed by Michael Bay.

Now, what we are learning is that cuts to the agency could impact administrative and technical staff, as well as new hires and agents who could be in their probationary period within their first few years.

It is not expected to immediately impact core missions and readiness, but of course it could in time if people who are involved in law enforcement roles have to backfill more support positions.

Asked for comment about this, a senior DHS official tells me, quote, "We are determined to eliminate government waste that has been happening for decades at the expense of the American taxpayer. Across DHS, we will be eliminating non-mission critical positions and bureaucratic hurdles that undermine our mission to secure the homeland."

Secretary Noem, the official said, is determined to return DHS to its core mission of keeping America safe.

Of course, sources at the agency are describing such tremendous anxiety as they await these final decisions. Jessica.

DEAN: Yes, that's certainly understandable. Betsy.

I also do want to talk about the president's tariffs. It appears he's remaining defiant despite any backlash. What are you hearing from the White House today?

KLEIN: Yes, we are really witnessing a reshaping of the economic world order, and we are seeing a market sell off as well as frustration from American business leaders, foreign retaliation, and even skepticism from the Federal Reserve chairman.

But it was really business as usual for President Trump today, who spent his third day in a row at one of his south Florida golf property. And I just want to highlight this very remarkable split screen moment as we are seeing these protests unfold across the country.

The president and White House issued this official statement. Quote, "The president won his second-round matchup of the senior club championship today in Jupiter, Florida and advances to the championship round tomorrow.

Of course, as he arrived at his club, the president remained defiant, telling supporters to hang tough.

[17:04:47]

KLEIN: And I also want to direct you to comments from Peter Navarro, the president's trade adviser on CNN this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER NAVARRO, WHITE HOUSE SENIOR COUNSELOR: The market will find a bottom. It will be soon. And from there we're going to have a bullish boom. And the Dow is going to hit 50,000 during Trump's term. The S&P 500 is going to have a very broad-based recovery. And wages are going to go up. Profits are going to go up. And life's going to be beautiful here in America. Trust in Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KLEIN: Of course, trust in Trump as the short-term implications the president has acknowledged could be disruptive. The long-term reality, however, we just don't know, Jessica.

DEAN: Certainly. All right.

Betsy Klein, for us in West Palm Beach with a lot of news today. Thank you so much for that.

Joining us now, columnist for "The Financial Times", Gillian Tett. Gillian, it is great to have you back here with us as we kind of navigate -- we don't have Gillian, unfortunately.

We're going to try to get her. We're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back.

[17:00:48]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: Tonight, thousands of pro-Palestinian protesters marching on Washington's National Mall protesting Israel's war in Gaza and the Trump administration's detention of university student protesters.

CNN's Brian Todd has more on this, Brian.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jessica, I think you can fairly characterize this as a day of resistance in Washington, D.C.

First, you had the hands-off rally with thousands of people at the foot of the Washington Monument. And then this one, this is the National March for Palestine. These people, thousands of them, and I have to say, they are of comparable size to the hands-off rally. Thousands of these people marched from Third street and Pennsylvania

Avenue northwest all the way over here. And that's several blocks to the headquarters of the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement division of the Department of Homeland Security.

Thousands of people, they are protesting the Israeli operations in Gaza and the Trump administration's detention of some pro-Palestinian activists.

I'm here with Suzanne Ali. She's an organizer from the Palestinian Youth Movement. Suzanne, tell me what the message is, the central message of this event today.

SUZANNE ALI, ORGANIZER, PALESTINIAN YOUTH MOVEMENT: Our primary message today is that the people demand an immediate end to the genocide of Palestinians in Gaza, an end to the United States' primary role in facilitating this genocide by providing Israel with U.S.-made bombs to slaughter and massacre Palestinians on a daily basis.

That's our primary demand is to end this genocide. And we need to do that through an arms embargo.

TODD: All right. I'm going to present the other side to you. The Israeli's say that they had to expand their operations in Gaza because Hamas and some other Palestinians were engaging in dangerous activities there and violating their end of the bargain.

The Trump administration says they had to detain these pro-Palestinian activists because they were engaging in dangerous activity, that they were engaging with suspected terrorists and putting forth terrorist propaganda. What is your response to all of that?

ALI: The reality is that there has been a proposal for a ceasefire deal since the beginning in October of 2023. And there's only been one side that's rejected this deal unilaterally, which is Israel. And it's been very clear that --

TODD: That's not what they say, but go ahead.

ALI: It's not what they say but they say many things. It's -- over 50,000 Palestinians have been slaughtered. They have indiscriminately targeted hospitals, schools, mosques and churches.

The Palestinian people in Gaza were already living under a brutal siege backed by the United States for 17 years before this started.

TODD: All right. Well, I'm sorry to cut it off there. Are you going to be holding more events like this in the days and weeks to come?

ALI: For sure. We are here today, we're showing that we are not afraid, in spite of the repression that we've been facing recently, that with every arrest, with every threat of deportation, our movement shows up stronger. Our conviction for our cause grows, and the people are joining our movement. Its growing.

So we will continue this. We will carry forward this struggle. TODD: Thank you for talking to us, Suzanne. We appreciate it.

ALI: Thank you.

All right. So Jessica, there you have it. Look at the show of force here. Speeches going on here in front of ICE headquarters. Thousands of people, again of comparable size to the hands-off rally earlier in Washington.

And because of these two rallies, the White House actually had to postpone a series of garden tours that they give every spring and fall at the White House. Because of the two massive rallies in Washington today, they had to postpone those garden tours of the White House until Sunday.

The White House saying that's simply out of an abundance of caution. But it really is due to the thousands and thousands of people on the streets of Washington today, with these two rallies, Jessica.

DEAN: All right. Brian Todd in Washington for us. Thank you for that reporting.

I want to turn back now to our top story, which is the global fallout over President Trump's tariffs, how it's going to impact everyone here in the U.S., but also broadly across the globe. And joining us now is columnist for "The Financial Times", Gillian Tett. Gillian, thanks for hanging with us. We're glad to have you here with us this evening.

[17:14:50]

DEAN: You have a new piece out for "The Financial Times", and in it, you describe the presidents tariffs as, quote, "strangely self- sabotaging", saying they might seem better explained by psychologists than economists -- than economists.

And then you go on to kind of try to put some sense around what we might be seeing. Walk us through that.

GILLIAN TETT, COLUMNIST, "THE FINANCIAL TIMES: Well, I think the key message that came out of President Trump today that this is an economic revolution is very striking because it shows that firstly, it really is him driving it and owning it.

And secondly, this is not just some random policy tweak or vindictive measure. It's part of a wider attempt to reset the economy in America. And in fact, the global economy.

And in essence, they're trying to go back to a period we saw a hundred years ago before the rise of Keynesian economics, before the rise of neo-liberal free market economics, of the sort that was championed by [overtalking] that has really laid the foundation for where we are today.

They're trying to go further back to the rise of what might be called nationalist economics or patriotic capitalism, whatever you want to call it, which is very much focused on the national interest and is very much focused against globalization and trying to champion American workers.

Now we've seen an absolutely brutal reaction from the markets in the last two days, $5.4 trillion worth of value have been wiped off American indices. And if you look at global indices is around $6.8 trillion, according to our calculations on "The Financial Times". The investors have had a really horrible shock in every possible sense.

But the question now really is, given that Trump is trying to lay out a new vision of economic policy making that goes back to what we saw a hundred years ago, will the American voters support it or not?

DEAN: Right. And that is, of course, going to be the big question. It is, as I'm hearing you describe this, obviously we live now in 2025, not a hundred years ago. The world has changed a tremendous amount. And I think people have a lot of questions about what this means long term.

But one of the questions that I keep hearing from people, or something that they keep saying is, oh, well, isn't this just a negotiating tool? Isn't that how he's going to use this? Isn't this an "art of the deal" type thing?

But what you're describing is much deeper than that. It's much -- it's much more -- it covers so much more ground. It's about a reshaping, as you say, of the global economy.

TETT: Absolutely. And I think that initially, I like many people, thought that the talk about tariffs was simply a negotiating tool, an attempt to intimidate other countries into cutting deals. We may yet see that.

And I think next week we'll see a series of countries coming to Washington, along with some companies trying to discuss, you know, what's going to happen with President Trump.

Well, I understand from people around the White House is that he will not mention the "negotiation" word, the n word. They'll be simply going into listening mode, but we may see some deals come out of this.

But no one should lose sight of the fact that there's actually a bigger desire to reset the economy. They would say, Trump's economic adviser would say, they're trying to reset it to something which is really focused on Main Street, on American workers, rather than Wall Street and the financial -- and financial investors.

It's worth remembering, of course, that around 80 percent of American stocks are owned by just 5 percent of Americans. So the fact that stock markets are crashing is something that hits wealthier people and many middle class people with 401-Ks.

But there's a huge chunk of Americans who don't have any access to the stock market or exposure and will simply shrug their shoulders. So there is a much bigger shift in economic philosophy going on.

And perhaps the most important thing to grasp, which I talked about in my column, is that although we spent the last few decades assuming that economics has primacy over politics because that's essentially what neo-liberal economics was all about, free markets, what the Trump team is saying is that they believe, first and foremost, it's about power and politics, patriotism, national interest, if you like, and economics comes after that.

And that's very much the approach the approach they're taking, which is quite a shock to anybody who grew up in the last few decades looking at how the investment framework was used in the financial industry.

DEAN: Yes. It is so different than what we have -- we have grown up with, we have seen over the last several decades.

And you mentioned the stock market. You mentioned who would be affected by that. There is also the piece of this tariff puzzle where every day Americans are going to pay more for some things, and the president has even acknowledged that this could be, he says it won't be easy. And he's describing this economic revolution in his words.

[17:19:50]

DEAN: What do you think is a reasonable expectation for people out there in terms of what this short-term pain might look like?

TETT: Well, I think as far as the president is concerned, one of the data points he should really potentially worry about is the fact that at the end of last year, consumer's inflation expectations were about 3 percent. So they were expecting prices to go up about 2 to 3 percent over the next year or two.

Now they're over 6 percent. And that's very concerning because first of all, it means that it would be harder for the Federal Reserve to cut interest rates with that kind of rise in inflation expectations.

But secondly, it shows that many ordinary consumers, including those who have no exposure to the stock market, are very nervous about what these tariffs will actually mean for them.

The president appears to be taking an enormous bet that he understands how politics and economics interact better than anybody else. He's believing that the American voters will support him in accepting short-term pain for what he says is long term gain.

Will they? We just don't know. But certainly this has to be one of the biggest presidential gambles that we've seen for many, many years. And it really is taking us back to the future, back to the 1930s.

DEAN: Wow. And you mentioned the Fed. The president has called on the Fed chair Jerome Powell, to lower interest rates. He even posted on Truth Social about that yesterday.

Jerome Powell has not indicated that that is what they see on the horizon. The president -- we're putting it up right there -- saying this would be the perfect time for Powell to cut interest rates.

And while we're seeing all of this, JPMorgan Chase has upped its odds of a recession to 60 percent, that happened this week. So, taken all together, how do you see that piece of the puzzle playing out?

TETT; Well, I think that right now the Federal Reserve is in a very difficult situation because its facing what is called stagflation, which is a word we last heard about in the 1970s, where you have low growth or recession combined with inflation, and that's a nightmare for Jay Powell, because if you have inflation, you would normally want to raise rates. If you got low growth, you want to cut rates.

And at the same time, he's got the president making it very clear that he wants the Federal Reserve to cut rates, because that will not only ease pressure on any mortgage holders, it will help companies. But of course, it will also, most importantly, stop the U.S. debt burden from completely exploding.

So the pressure is on the Federal Reserve to essentially cut rates. But the Federal Reserve also knows that if it's seen to be simply doing what the president demands, then it will lose credibility with market investors. And that could create an even nastier explosion in the markets as people start to really question the value of the dollar and start to question whether anybody is going to be able to keep inflation under control in the future.

So it's a very nasty tightrope right now for the Federal Reserve and for investors who are trying to pass all this.

DEAN: Yes, it is -- it is quite a moment. And to your point, I think a lot of people across the spectrum are trying to make sense of it and figure out how it's going to impact them, both in the short term and the long term.

Gillian Tett, thank you so much. Really nice to talk to you. We appreciate it.

TETT: Thank you.

RAJU: With markets both here and abroad still reeling from those new tariffs, President Trump is hitting the golf course teeing off in south Florida amid growing fears of inflation and a recession.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

[17:23:20]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: As businesses fear how deeply the historic Trump tariffs may put them in the red, President Trump is on the green. Golfing for the second day in a row, his motorcade arriving at this location in Jupiter, Florida this morning.

A few hours ago, the White House issued this remarkable statement. Quote, "The president won his second-round matchup of the Senior Cup Club championship today in Jupiter, Florida and advances to the championship round tomorrow.

And among the critics who blasted the president for teeing off on the job, well, Donald Trump himself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Obama, it was. Reported today, played 250 rounds of golf.

Everything's executive order because he doesn't have enough time, because he's playing so much golf.

Obama ought to get off the golf course and get down there.

I'm going to be working for you. I'm not going to have time to go play golf.

He played more golf last year than Tiger Woods.

That plays more golf than people on the PGA Tour.

I love golf, I think it's one of the greats, but I don't have time.

If I were in the White House, I don't think I'd ever see Turnberry again. I don't think I'd ever see Doral again.

I'm not going to be playing much golf believe me. If I win this, I'm not going to be playing much golf.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Well, let's talk about the optics of this with CNN media analyst Sara Fischer. She's also a media correspondent for Axios. Sara, it's really good to see you here.

This is quite a split screen moment as there's this economic freefall and questions and concerns and worry while we are seeing the president playing golf.

SARA FISCHER, CNN MEDIA ANALYST: Yes. And I think one of the most striking parts about this day is that, it's not just that the president is golfing outside the White House, it's that at the White House, as you showed your viewers earlier, there are massive protests, Jessica.

I just came back from the streets of D.C. It is one of the most well- attended protests I've seen living in this city for a very, very long time.

And so it kind of feels like the president is almost escaping some of that chaos, escaping some of the accountability that people are looking for, not just from him, but from government and by being out on the golf course.

Of course, you noted the hypocrisy of this, of him slamming other presidents for doing this similar types of golf trips when there is big policy news happening.

[17:24:48] FISCHER: I don't think at this point that fazes most Americans. They know what Donald Trump is like. I mean, the guy basically has been running the country from Mar-a-Lago for some time.

But what I do think is really striking is that it's coming against this massive tariff and economic policy, where so many ripple effects have taken place.

You definitely get the sense that he is sort of dodging a lot of the pressure of the moment.

DEAN: Right. And to that point, Sara, there is an A.P. photograph that shows the president reading "The New York Post." Obviously, we do know he likes to consume, ironically, some of this, you know, more legacy media in terms of print and television news.

Do you think he is aware of how significant the blowback is right now?

FISCHER: He is, but I think he doesn't care.

DEAN: Yes.

FISCHER: Like Donald Trump has done so many things that get a lot of negative response, and it doesn't dictate how he feels about things.

Like, I even think about what happened with Signal-gate. There was so much negative pressure and press around that. And yet, he stands by Pete Hegseth. He stands by Mike Waltz publicly. So this is not somebody who gets really fazed by public criticism.

Where, I think, President Trump might start to get a little spooked is, as we get close to the midterms, if there is no real turnaround in the economy, if inflation still persists, that's when he gets judged by the polls.

And you'll recall, in his last term, during the midterms, there was sort of like an indictment. It's always an indictment on the president in the first midterms after they're elected.

We should expect to see that again for his second term. If Republicans lose a lot of seats, it's most likely going to be because of the economy. And one could draw a pretty direct line to these massive changes in policy that he's been making.

DEAN: Yes.

I want to listen to a clip from one of the president's go-to advisers on this. This is what he told our colleague, Michael Smerconish, earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER NAVARRO, WHITE HOUSE SENIOR COUNSELOR: The market will find a bottom. It will be soon. And from there, we're going to have a bullish boom. And the Dow is going to hit 50,000 during Trump's term. The S&P 500 is

going to have a very broad based recovery. And wages are going to go up. Profits are going to go up. And life's going to be beautiful here in America. Trust in Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: And, Sara, it has been interesting to see who's been out there trying to make this case, trust in Trump. Obviously, Peter Navarro is one of the fiercest defenders of this policy of the president. Elon Musk and him getting into this back and forth today.

But what do you make of who we're seeing deliver this message and how they're delivering this message?

FISCHER: Yes. Well, it's not people who are elected by its constituents, I'll tell you that. It's very hard right now to find congressional Republicans who are going to come out swinging hard in favor of these policies.

Because they're the ones that have to speak to constituents who's got to put food on the table and who are still reeling from inflation.

It's going to be, you know, Donald Trump's cabinet members, his close allies, those who don't necessarily need to be elected into positions that feel more comfortable with these types of messages.

But just to speak to what he just said, you know, they're taking such great risks that so many decades of presidents and of policymakers before them have opted not to take, it makes you wonder, like, what sort of magic economic thinking do they have that so many smart people ahead of them did not?

Because these policies are so extreme, Jessica. We have not seen tariffs introduced like this unilaterally and so unexpectedly in a very long time.

DEAN: Yes, it is. It is. We were just talking about the historic nature of this, regardless of where it ends up. Just the fact that it is happening is -- is historic.

I do want to ask you about Elon Musk. I know you have covered him, Tesla, his role in the administration.

Politico has reported that Trump is telling his inner circle that Musk will be leaving soon upon mutual agreement, for Musk to get back to his other jobs.

He obviously did always have kind of that time frame for the type of -- of government position he held. There was question over whether they would try to extend that or not.

The White House has denied this report.

But as someone who's followed all of this, what do you think? Or how much do you think that this Wisconsin election results where Musk went in, he spent $20 million. He gave away the prizes. That -- that candidate lost.

How much of that is connected to kind of what we're hearing now?

FISCHER: I actually don't think that much. Musk, in an interview with FO News about a week ago, said that when his sort of time was up in 130 days, his special position was up, he was going to return back to the public sector -- private sector -- excuse me. And that was even before this Wisconsin race.

I also think Elon Musk, like he's just a super -- like, you know, he has a lot of interests, right? Like he's somebody who can get bored really easily.

I think he came, saw, unconquered, right? He came, he did DOGE, he cut spending. He'll go back to the private sector and call the whole thing a victory.

He also then gets to sort of wipe his hands clean of some of these economic policies if they fall through. I think if you are the, you know, head of Tesla, it's a really tough position right now to be involved with this government during these tariffs.

As you know, Tesla is very contingent on labor in China, on manufacturing in China. And so it's not a great position for him to be in the government would be tied to that.

I think this is the right time for him to exit. I think it was inevitable that once it got to this point, he would have to leave. I don't think the White House wants to celebrate reports about his departure.

It's easier for them to comment and just say, oh, that's not true. But I think it's likely that Elon Musk will be out.

DEAN: All right, Sara Fischer, as always, thank you so much. Good to see you.

[17:35:02]

FISCHER: You, too. Thank you.

DEAN: Up next, we're going to talk with the former deputy prime minister of Canada as the longtime U.S. ally warns it's relationship with America will never be the same again.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: "It is time for you to leave." That was the message sent this week to an unknown number of Ukrainians legally living in the U.S. after escaping Russia's war on their home country.

[17:40:03]

But the message was sent in error. In an email, the Department of Homeland Security writing, quote, "DHS is terminating your parole. Do not attempt to remain in the United States. The federal government will find you."

Now, that email was sent on Thursday. A day later, there was another one, this one retracting that notice, calling it an error, telling the Ukrainians, quote, "No action will be taken" and their status remains unchanged at this time.

A spokesperson for DHS today says Uniting for Ukraine, that that program has not been terminated and there are no plans to terminate it.

But a source tells me that the back and forth has been enough to frighten and concern those Ukrainians living here and the Americans who are sponsoring them to live here.

Later tonight, at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, I'll speak with the leader of an organization supporting some of those Ukrainians living here in the U.S. Again, that's a little bit later at 8:00 p.m.

Meantime, Canada is, tonight, warning it's citizens traveling to the U.S. to, quote, "expect scrutiny when crossing the border." A revised travel advisory says border officials have the authority to search traveler's electronic devices without a reason.

Tens of thousands of Canadians have canceled travel plans amid this escalating trade war.

Prime Minister Mark Carney this week hitting back, announcing Canada will match a 25 percent tariff on vehicles imported from the U.S.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK CARNEY, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: The system of global trade anchored on the United States that Canada has relied on since the end of the Second World War, a system that, while not perfect, has helped to deliver prosperity for our country for decades, is over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Joining us now is former premier of Quebec, Jean Charest. He's also the former deputy prime minister of Canada.

Thank you so much for being here with us tonight.

I want to -

(CROSSTALK)

JEAN CHAREST, FORMER QUEBEC PREMIER: Thank you, Jessica.

DEAN: Yes. I want to start there, where the -- where the prime minister was. Are we in just this new era of U.S.-Canadian relations? And do you ever see it going back, or is this a new phase from here on out?

CHAREST: We are in a new era. I think Prime Minister Carney called it right. The relationship has changed forever. And -- and we accept that. It seems to be the case for the rest of the world also. And -- and now we have to look ahead. We have to look at what will happen.

When the tariffs were announced this week, we were -- admittedly, we were surprised, Jessica. We -- we didn't know quite what to expect. And -- and at first glance, we thought, well, this at least in a world of bad choices, seems to be not as bad as what's happening elsewhere.

And you may remember in the conversation that President Trump and Prime Minister Carney had, they talked about negotiating an agreement. You saw the tariffs and the response from China and cutting off rare earths. Or there's a good example of where we could go.

I mean, Canada could very well be a substitute to supplying rare earths to Americans, especially in the areas of aerospace. Also, alloys with aluminum, all sorts of things where the Americans do not have any supply.

And that's a, in our view, an example of how we could have a broad range agreement. And with what's happened over the last few days. Who knows?

Why would Canada not be the first place President Trump would choose to go to negotiate an overall agreement that would be to everyone's benefit?

I think there's -- there's a lot there in the last few days to think about that could actually turn this whole situation around into something positive.

DEAN: And so to get to that outcome, what has to happen in the short term? What's next?

CHAREST: Well, on the side of the American administration, I think they'll probably take stock of the reactions across the world.

Canada did reply with retaliatory tariffs on the automotive industry and -- and protecting those who produce parts in Canada and Mexico. And the money that we're going to draw from the tariffs are going to go to Canadian workers.

And so what could happen is that our American counterparts, whether it's Secretary Lutnick or others, could say, fine, OK, the president wants to sit down.

We want to negotiate with you access to critical minerals, access to energy, access to certain goods. Like potash, for example, which is absolutely essential to every American farmer. And Canada supplies 80 percent of it, 80 percent. And we want to continue to work with Americans.

And let's -- let's negotiate access to all these things together. We'll set aside the tariffs, and then we'll look at a longer-term relationship where we're each other's reliable suppliers, as -- as should always be the case now, but also for the future.

DEAN: And you mentioned Canada matching those auto tariffs. Did you think that was the right move? CHAREST: Yes, I do think it's the right move. And it's done with

regret.

I mean, to be very clear, again, we're in a world of bad choices. The tariffs on us hurt us. And then we put tariffs on you. That also hurt us, by the way.

[17:45:04]

I mean, this is -- this is the foolishness and the -- and the logic of the tariffs that is -- is -- explains why the markets react so badly. We know that.

So as we put retaliatory tariffs on, we try to protect our workers as much as possible, protect our economy. We try to put tariffs on things for which we have alternatives, either within the country or with other countries.

But it's -- you know, it's a big, you know, waste of energy, of time. And frankly, we would all be better served if we focused on a longer- term, broader relationship that also touches on key things that the American administration want, that the American people need, and that we want to -- to supply and work with them on.

DEAN: How upset are Canadians right now? We've seen booing at hockey games, boycotting American products. I do just want to hear your sense of the anger at the U.S. right now.

CHAREST: Well, I regret the fact that some people would boo the national anthem of another country. That's just not right. But it does speak to the fact that Canadians, Jessica, are very upset. They've been very, very upset.

We have always felt very strongly that our relationship with the United States was one that we treasure.

And we always continue to -- I mean, we love the American people. We get along well with them. They're friends, they're allies. And we distinguish between the administration.

But, you know, some of this has been very destabilizing. And it hurt Canadians, frankly. And so that explains why the -- the sentiment is so strong.

And you'll see tourism go down and -- and all sorts of effects of unintended consequences that -- that are not good for either country.

But it -- it speaks to the fact that we -- we did not -- we do not take that relationship for granted. And to -- to be called out as the 51st state is the equivalent of being told you don't exist.

I mean, you know the rule in life, Jessica, you're -- you're at CNN. It's not only what you say to people that counts, it's what they hear. And so in that respect, we hope that we've turned that page.

I think Prime Minister Carney and President Trump had a good conversation. I think we've probably turned that page and turned that corner. So let's put that aside and move on to the things where -- where we can work together constructively.

DEAN: All right, Jean Charest, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it.

CHAREST: Thank you, Jessica.

DEAN: Still ahead, British actor and comedian, Russell Brand, charged with rape. What we are learning about the allegations and what happens next. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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[17:52:20]

DEAN: Federal prosecutors have announced two new charges against Sean "Diddy" Combs, additional counts of sex trafficking and transportation to engage in prostitution. These new allegations mean he's now facing five federal charges.

Prosecutors accuse Combs and those around him of using his fame and influence to coerce women into sex acts they say occurred between 2021 and 2024.

But attorneys for Combs say, quote, "These are not new allegations or new accusers. These are the same individuals, former long-term girlfriends who were involved in consensual relationships."

These charges were announced just one month before Combs is set to go under -- to go to trial in New York on sex trafficking charges. He has pleaded not guilty to those charges.

British actor and comedian, Russell Brand, is now responding to rape and sexual assault charges, saying in a social media post, quote, "I was never a rapist."

CNN's Julia Vargas Jones explains the alleged offenses involving Brand and four women.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The Met Police are saying charges against Russell Brand come after a careful review of evidence.

It is alleged that one woman was raped in 1999, in Bournemouth, southern England. One woman indecently assaulted in London's Westminster area in 2001.

A third woman, orally raped and sexually assaulted in 2004, also in the Westminster area of London. And a fourth woman sexually assaulted between 2004 and 2005, in London's Westminster area.

The Met Police also said that the investigation started after a joint investigation, led by three British media outlets, "The Sunday Times," "The Times" and Channel 4's dispatches. Brand is being charged with offenses including rape, sexual assault

and indecent assault. Now, Brand has denied these allegations since they surfaced in 2023, and he doubled down on that denial, posting a video statement on X.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSSELL BRAND, COMEDIAN & ACTOR: When I was young and single, before I had my wife and family, we are just out of shot over there, my beautiful children, I was a fool, man. I was a fool before I lived in the light of the Lord.

I was a drug addict, a sex addict and an imbecile. But what I never was, was a rapist. I've never engaged in non-consensual activity. I pray that you can see that by looking in my eyes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: Brand has also thanked the messages of support he says he's received from his followers.

His battles with drug and alcohol have been part of a bigger discourse on wellness over the past few years.

He did gain a large following online, discussing it, as well as several conspiracy theories, particularly on his YouTube channel, where he has over six million subscribers.

Julia Vargas Jones, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: Julia, thank you for that.

Tomorrow night, a new Fareed Zakaria special. He's going to look at the conservative movement's long-running war on government.

[17:55:05]

Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST (VO): As he took the oath of office in 1981 --

RONALD REAGAN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I, Ronald Reagan, do solemnly swear --

ZAKARIA: -- Ronald Reagan began his big crusade against government.

REAGON: So help me God.

UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: Congratulations, sir. (APPLAUSE)

ZAKARIA: He believed an ever-growing federal bureaucracy was stifling the American people --

REAGAN: Thank you.

(APPLAUSE)

ZAKARIA: -- culminating in the malaise of the Carter years.

REAGAN: In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem. Government is the problem.

ZAKARIA: Reagans solution? The most radical attempt to downsize government since the New Deal.

WALTER CRONKITE, FORMER CBS NEWS ANCHOR: Ronald Reagan, his supporters hope the new FDR of the right.

ZAKARIA: He would not waste any time. Before he even left the capital, Reagan signed an executive order to freeze all hiring in the federal government. Conservatives hopes were sky high.

But in the end, the Reagan Revolution would fall far short. Big government got even bigger. And many hard-core conservatives once again felt betrayed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Be sure to tune in, "THE WAR ON GOVERNMENT," a Fareed Zakaria special, airs tomorrow at 8:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN.

From cars to chips to computers, price tags are going up as President Trump's widespread levies go into effect. But world leaders aren't taking these new tariffs laying down. More when we come back.

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