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Trump Threatens to Tax Harvard as a Political Entity; Judge Says No Evidence Orders to Bring Kilmar Abrego Garcia Back Being Followed; Sudan's Civil War Enters Third Year; White House on China: 'We Don't Have to Make a Deal,' They Do; Canadian Superhero Back in Action Amid Tariff Wars. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired April 16, 2025 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello and, welcome, everyone. I'm Rosemary Church. Just ahead on CNN NEWSROOM, Donald Trump escalates his battle against higher education, threatening to get rid of a tax break for Harvard University hours after freezing billions in federal funds.

Protesters turn out in support of a man who was mistakenly deported to a notorious prison in El Salvador. And two years into Sudan's bloody civil war, what the U.N. calls the world's worst humanitarian crisis grows even more desperate.

ANNOUNCER: Live from Atlanta, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Rosemary Church.

CHURCH: Thanks for joining us.

Donald Trump's ideological battle with some of America's most prestigious colleges and universities has risen to a new level with Harvard. The president now threatening to strip the oldest university in the United States of its tax exempt status and tax Harvard as a political entity after its leaders refused to make key policy changes the White House is demanding.

Harvard appears to be the first prominent university to openly rebuke those demands. The Trump administration claims the policy changes are meant to combat antisemitism on campus after last year's contentious student protests over the war in Gaza. It also wants to root out programs and policies involving diversity, equity and inclusion.

Harvard's president says the school will not surrender its independence or relinquish its constitutional rights. The Trump administration has since frozen more than $2 billion in federal grants and contracts at Harvard. The school's former president called it a punitive and unlawful attack.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY SUMMERS, FORMER HARVARD PRESIDENT: This is an attempt to impose the kind of regulation on Harvard that is imposed by government on universities in countries that we don't think of as democracies. Countries that don't have free speech protections.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: More now from CNN's Jeff Zeleny at the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: President Trump engaging in an extraordinary back and forth with one of the nation's most prestigious universities, Harvard University, threatened to hold back some $2 billion in federal funding. He says he has not seen enough action from Harvard in terms of eliminating DEI programs and others.

Now this all stems from charges this administration has made against what it believes has been antisemitism on college campuses. Now many universities like Columbia University has fallen into line and done what the administration has liked. Some faculty members have said this is a, you know, an abridgment of First Amendment rights. But the White House press secretary said President Trump is looking for something specific from Harvard.

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: He also wants to see Harvard apologize, and Harvard should apologize for the egregious antisemitism that took place on their college campus against Jewish American students.

ZELENY: So Harvard University is standing up to the White House at least so far unlike other institutions of higher learning. One reason for that is they have a $50 billion endowment more than any other university by far. They're also engaging with some conservative lawyers to push back against this administration. So it's clear that this is likely to end up in the higher courts, perhaps even the Supreme Court.

Now, we know the president has always talked about the Ivy League, the importance of Ivy League education. He's a graduate of the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. Of course the vice president also a graduate of an Ivy League school, at Yale Law School. But the president is seizing on this fight. It's one way he can make a fight against an elite institution like Harvard.

Jeff Zeleny, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: For more, we're joined by Jon Fansmith. He is the senior vice president for Government Relations and National Engagement at the American Council on Education.

Appreciate you joining us.

JON FANSMITH, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, GOVERNMENT RELATIONS AND NATIONAL ENGAGEMENT, AMERICAN COUNCIL ON EDUCATION: Thank you so much for having me on, Rosemary. CHURCH: Of course. Well, the Trump administration is now threatening

Harvard University's tax exempt status after freezing $2.2 billion of funding because Harvard rejected Trump's demands for sweeping changes to its governance, admissions and hiring practices.

[00:05:11]

Now, Princeton and Stanford are standing with Harvard. Could this set a precedent, perhaps, for other U.S. universities, to join forces against the Trump administration's demands?

FANSMITH: Rosemary, I really think it will. I think when you talk to a lot of the leaders of colleges and universities, they've seen the same things that Harvard saw, which is that this administration has not been acting in good faith. They've been not following due process. They've not been following the law. And while I think institutions are very committed to addressing concerns about antisemitism or civil rights on our campuses, what they've seen is that this administration isn't looking to really address that.

They're looking to, through these very unreasonable demands, make efforts to control what happens on a college campus in a way that fundamentally would reshape the nature of the institutions, things they simply cannot accept.

CHURCH: And you have said that the Trump administration is trying to weaponize funding. What do you mean by that? And why is Trump doing this, do you think?

FANSMITH: Well, there's very clear processes in American law for how you deal with concerns, allegations of discrimination at a college campus. And the end of that, when there has been an investigation and evidence and a finding and the institution and the government cannot come to terms on how to resolve that situation. At that point, the government can take away funding.

What we've seen from the Trump administration is rather than follow the law, rather than follow due process, they've started with the punishment by taking away the funding and saying, we'll only restore it if you do these things we ask of you. And as Harvard releasing the letter of demands they received indicates, the things that are being asked of them go far beyond anything that could remotely be connected to addressing antisemitism on campuses.

It is direct federal government interference in who Harvard admits, what they teach, who's allowed to teach them, even what student organizations are allowed to be on campus. It is grossly over the line of what has ever been accepted in American higher education.

CHURCH: And while Harvard is, of course, trying to send a message that it won't sacrifice its mission and identity, how much financial pressure could this put on Harvard if it continues this fight even with its massive endowment?

FANSMITH: Harvard has tremendous resources, but this is a huge statement that they are making by resisting. This is, to any institution including Harvard, billions of dollars in federal funding is a significant leverage. But it's also worth thinking about what this money is. It is not billions of dollars to Harvard. It is billions of dollars that is being used to pursue world class research and biomedical health and technological innovation, ongoing research that is doing things to find cures for Alzheimer's and cancer and diabetes and other issues.

Suspending this funding doesn't improve the situation for a single student. What it does is harm the health and the future prosperity of our country for all Americans. It's a very poorly misdirected way of trying to force the institution to bend to the administration's will, and one that's bad for our nation and bad for every American regardless of your political viewpoints.

CHURCH: And President Trump also wants an apology from Harvard. How likely is it that he'll get that? And how much do you worry about the future of higher education in the U.S. in this current environment?

FANSMITH: Well, I can't speak for what Harvard would do. I know that were I in their place, I would be expecting an apology, not offering one. In terms of the future of higher education under this administration, I think certainly there are reasons to be concerned. We've seen an administration that doesn't follow the law in terms of how they approach this, who seems to want headlines rather than solutions. And that certainly causes a lot of uncertainty.

There has been a huge and longstanding and vitally important relationship between colleges and universities and the federal government, and anything that puts that at risk is something to be seriously concerned about. But that said, there are 4,000 or so accredited degree granting institutions in the United States. They represent a huge diversity of types of institutions. It is a strong and resilient system.

And truthfully speaking, to an international audience, it remains the envy of the world. Colleges and universities in the U.S. will persist, will continue to serve their missions, will stand up for what is important and the values that they believe in and that they hold dear.

CHURCH: Jon Fansmith, thank you so much for joining us. Appreciate it.

FANSMITH: Thanks for having me.

CHURCH: The U.S. federal judge overseeing the case of a wrongfully deported man says there's no evidence the Trump administration is following her orders to facilitate his return.

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Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported to El Salvador's notorious mega prison last month, a move that has sparked massive backlash against the Trump administration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PROTESTERS: Bring Kilmar home. Bring Kilmar home. (END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Protesters gathered outside the courthouse demanding justice for Abrego Garcia and for others deported from the U.S. without due process. His wife says her children have now spent several harrowing weeks without their father.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER VASQUEZ, WIFE OF KILMAR ABREGO GARCIA: As we continue through Holy Week, my heart aches for my husband, who should have been here leading our Easter prayers. Instead, I find myself pleading with the Trump administration and the Bukele administration to stop playing political games with the life of Kilmar.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: CNN's Priscilla Alvarez has more on the judge's demands.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tuesday marked yet another tense hearing in the case over Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the Salvadoran national, who was mistakenly deported to El Salvador according to the Trump administration, which called it, quote, "an administrative error."

Now, the federal judge in this case has been quite frustrated over the course of multiple hearings, finding that the answers that the Justice Department has been providing are not satisfactory. And that was also the case on Tuesday, as she asked for more evidence as to what the administration was doing to facilitate the return of Abrego Garcia.

Now, the Supreme Court had required the administration to facilitate, but stopped short of requiring his return, sending it back to the lower court in terms of how they would effectuate that, and having the lower court define that further.

Now, the federal judge on Tuesday saying that she hasn't received any evidence to that point. And the Justice Department pointing to the Oval Office meeting that happened on Monday between President Trump and Salvadoran President Nayib Bukele. The federal judge, however, saying that that doesn't quite cut it, that she needs to have a record in the court. Rather, she needs to have the evidence submitted to the court that it's not just what happens in the public forum.

To that point, she said, quote, "I don't consider what happened yesterday, Monday, really evidence before this court yet."

Now the Trump administration's position has been that in addition to the emphasis on deference of foreign affairs that the Supreme Court put that they also have to, or rather, read this decision to mean that they have to remove domestic barriers only for his return. The federal judge taking issue with that saying, quote, "When a wrongfully removed individual from the United States is outside the borders, it's not so cut and dry that all you have to do is remove domestic barriers." Now, she ordered an intense two-week discovery, which is to say to

gather that evidence, to create that record that she has been seeking. She also said that she is prepared to issue an order which expands on the definition of the word facilitate.

Priscilla Alvarez, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: Just ahead, bloodshed, famine and no end to the fighting. Sudan's civil war enters its third year. Plus, NATO's secretary- general goes to Ukraine to meet with President Zelenskyy. What that show of support could mean for the peace process.

Back with that and more in just a moment.

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CHURCH: Key players are planning to ramp up aid to Sudan two years into its brutal civil war that's killed tens of thousands of people and displaced millions. During a conference in London, Britain and the E.U. vowed to donate $750 million for humanitarian aid efforts. Other nations, including the UAE, Egypt and Kenya, pledged millions more. The conference's co-chairs are calling for an immediate ceasefire and the return to a civilian-led government.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID LAMMY, BRITISH FOREIGN SECRETARY: Very simply, we have got to persuade the warring parties to protect civilians, to let aid in, and across the country, and to put peace first.

BANKOLE ADEOYE, AFRICAN UNION HEAD OF POLITICAL AFFAIRS, PEACE AND SECURITY: The African Union calls on all belligerents to stop this war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Sudanese officials have complained that no representatives from either of the warring parties were invited to the conference. Rights groups have accused both the Sudanese army and rival paramilitary Rapid Support Forces of war crimes, but most atrocities have been blamed on the RSF.

The U.N. says the world's worst humanitarian crisis is unfolding in Sudan, which includes a major famine and a deadly assault on a camp in Darfur. Hundreds of thousands of people have been forced to flee.

CNN's Salma Abdelaziz has our report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You are looking at images of a famine-stricken camp where families forced out of their home by war were attacked by a militia accused of genocide.

This video verified and geolocated by CNN shows the Rapid Support Forces known as the RSF, attacking the sprawling Zamzam Camp in the Darfur region of Sudan, forcing thousands of hungry and desperate people to flee for their lives.

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This is what we know right now. The RSF raided the camp, killed dozens of people, set fire to tents and marketplaces, deliberately targeted health clinics and killed at least nine medical workers, according to Relief International, an aid agency.

This satellite imagery shows that the RSF carried out a scorched earth policy across an area of 165 football fields. The RSF, which is seen here celebrating, has denied targeting civilians.

Now, Darfur, the region where this took place, is the epicenter of a genocide that was reignited when a civil war broke out between the RSF and the Sudanese army. That war is now entering its third year, and it has triggered what the U.N. calls the world's greatest humanitarian crisis.

Once again, those with a black or African tribal identity are being systematically hunted and killed by Arab militias like the RSF, in what has been determined to be a genocide by the U.S. State Department. And there is no end in sight to this conflict. Millions of people are unseen, battered, bruised, bombed and besieged, denied medical care and basic services, while the warring factions only exacerbate the suffering.

Salma Abdelaziz, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: NATO Secretary-General Mark Rutte is pledging the alliances unwavering support for Ukraine. He met with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy in Odesa on Tuesday. Ukraine's state news agency reports the two men talked about the country's need for weapons and air defense systems days after a Russian missile attack on Sumy that killed 35 people. Rutte expressed NATO's backing for efforts to end Russia's war on Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK RUTTE, NATO SECRETARY-GENERAL: These discussions are not easy, not least in the wake of this horrific violence. But we all support President Trump's push for peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Rutte and Zelenskyy also talked about guaranteeing Ukraine's security if a ceasefire deal with Russia can be reached.

Hamas says it's studying an Israeli ceasefire proposal and will respond as soon as possible. A Hamas official says the deal calls for the release of 10 hostages from Gaza in exchange for hundreds of Palestinian prisoners and detainees. The framework for a 45-day ceasefire is also on the table, but Hamas says it won't agree to any proposal that calls for it to disarm, or allows Israeli forces to return to Gaza after an initial withdrawal.

The proposal also calls for the release of Israeli-American hostage Edan Alexander on the first day of the truce as a special gesture to the U.S. But Hamas's military wing is now claiming they have lost contact with the militants holding Alexander after they say the Israeli military bombed the location where he was being held. CNN cannot independently verify that claim.

Still to come, President Trump says the U.S. doesn't need to make a deal with China, but they need America's money. We'll have the latest on the global trade war after a short break. Stay with us.

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CHURCH: Welcome back to CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Rosemary Church. Want to check today's top stories for you.

U.S. President Donald Trump is threatening to strip Harvard University of its tax exempt status and tax it as a political entity. This, after Harvard's leaders refused to make key policy changes that the White House is demanding. The Trump administration has also frozen more than $2 billion in federal research grants and contracts with Harvard.

U.S. federal judge -- a U.S. federal judge is demanding the Trump administration provide evidence that they're complying with her order to facilitate the return of a wrongly deported man. The judge says each day Kilmar Abrego Garcia remains in El Salvador's CECOT mega prison is, quote, "a day of irreparable harm."

As a push to restart peace talks as Sudan's civil war enters its third year, and to increase humanitarian aid, countries meeting in London pledged hundreds of millions of dollars to address the crisis. Neither the Sudanese army nor the Rapid Support Forces were invited.

Well, President Trump is said to be considering at least 15 trade deals with various countries at the moment. That's according to the White House press secretary. If true, it could mean the Trump administration's aggressive push for trade agreements that benefit the U.S. may be working after pausing the president's so-called reciprocal tariffs. But the White House gave no details on whose proposals are being considered or what's in those deals.

[00:30:10]

It's safe to assume China is not on that list. The 145 percent tariffs the U.S. imposed on Chinese imports last week are still in effect.

On Tuesday, the press secretary read a statement from President Trump, who says the onus is on Beijing to come to the table.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: "The ball is in China's court. China needs to make a deal with us. We don't have to make a deal with them. There's no difference between China and any other country, except they are much larger. And China wants what we have, what every country wants, what we have, the American consumer. Or to put it another way, they need our money.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: All right. Let's bring in CNN's Kristie Lu Stout, live from Hong Kong. Good to see you, Kristie.

So, new economic data is out as Donald Trump raises the heat on Beijing. So how is China's economy faring?

KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR/CORRESPONDENT: Yes. China's first-quarter economic data is out, and it reveals growth in the world's second largest economy just as U.S. President Donald Trump dials up the tariff pressure.

China's economy grew 5.4 percent, year on year, and that defied expectations. You've got to remember that the Chinese economy has been facing a number of headwinds, as it has been struggling to rebound from a post-COVID-19 pandemic slump.

And need we be reminded of those challenges, let's bring them up for you. They include low consumer spending. They include low consumer confidence. Also, high youth unemployment, as well as the ongoing and prolonged property slump in China.

Look, China has set an ambitious growth target of 5 percent for the year. But economists say, because of Trump's trade war, that target is going to be very difficult to reach.

Donald Trump has jacked up tariffs on China, reaching an eye-watering level of some 145 percent, and China, in turn, has retaliated with tariffs on U.S. imports, as well as other measures, including a curb on rare earths, which is very critical for a number of industries inside the United States.

And that is why economists are expecting a prolonged trade war. And it's also the reason why global investment banks are slashing their growth forecasts for China for the year.

UBS said that it has lowered its forecast for China's growth for the year from 4 percent to 3.4 percent. The bank also adding this analysis. Let's bring it up for you, saying this: quote, "We expect China's exports to the U.S. to fall by two-thirds in the coming quarters, and its overall exports to fall by 10 percent in U.S. dollar terms in 2025. The latter also takes into account slower U.S. and global growth," unquote.

Citi adds this: quote, "We see little scope for a deal between the U.S. and China after recent escalations," unquote. So, all eyes now on whether Beijing, under so much economic pressure

now because of the trade war, will be able to roll out any new stimulus. We know that the Politburo is set to have a meeting at the end of this month, and will announce and set its new policy agenda.

Back to you, Rosemary.

CHURCH: All right. Our thanks to Kristie Lu Stout, joining us live from Hong Kong with that report.

The Trump tariffs have brought about a resurgence for a Canadian comic book superhero. Just ahead, we will find out about truth, justice, and the Canadian way. Back in just a moment.

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CHURCH: President Trump's ongoing trade war against Canada has had one beneficial effect. It has led to a boost in the popularity of Captain Canuck, Canada's very own comic book superhero.

He burst on the scene decades ago, but his fight for truth, justice, and the Canadian way is just as relevant today. Paula Newton reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KRIS HOLDEN-REID, ACTOR: Happy Canada Day, folks.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, Canuck. Get moving. There's a holiday crowd out there, and we have less than three minutes.

PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR/CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Canada's comic book superhero, Captain Canuck, is back, and this time, he's taking on U.S. President Donald Trump.

In this 50th anniversary issue, Captain Canuck fights to protect Canada's independence from the U.S.

"Canuck's" co-creator, Richard Comley, says he wanted to bring the maple-leaf-covered hero back after Trump said he wanted Canada to become the 51st U.S. state and started his trade war with allied countries.

RICHARD COMLEY, "CAPTAIN CANUCK" CO-CREATOR: All of a sudden, Trump gets into -- into office, and he starts talking about annexation and tariffs. And yes, all of a sudden, Canadians are looking to Captain Canuck as a symbol.

And it's basically, to them, Captain Canuck symbolizes independence. No thank you. We have our own independent -- we have our own symbols.

NEWTON (voice-over): Since 1975, Captain Canuck has been a symbol of Canadian strength, with story lines about fighting off foreign powers and groups who tried to take over Canada.

COMLEY: Never -- never, in any of those stories, was it America that was going to be taking over Canada.

NEWTON (voice-over): Captain Canuck has been popular in Canada for years, with a countless number of comic books, spin-offs, and even a web series.

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Comley says he has received lots of new interest in the character since political tensions began to rise between the U.S. and Canada.

COMLEY: So, in a sense, we have Mr. Trump to thank for a bit of resurgence.

NEWTON (voice-over): Paula Newton, CNN, Ottawa.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: I'm Rosemary Church. I will be back at the top of the hour with more CNN NEWSROOM. But first, WORLD SPORT starts after a short break. Stay with us.

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