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CNN International: At Least Six Injured In Florida State University Shooting; Trump Lashes Out At Fed Chair Jerome Powell; Trump Meeting With Italian PM Meloni For Tariff Talks; Hamas Official: Group Rejects Latest Israeli Ceasefire Offer; U.S. & Ukraine Hold Highest Level Talks In Weeks In Paris; Department of Homeland Security Threatens to Revoke Harvard's Ability To Enroll International Students. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired April 17, 2025 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:21]
MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: Hello and welcome. I'm Max Foster. This is CNN NEWSROOM.
Following breaking news out of Florida. At least six people have been injured in a mass shooting on the campus of Florida State University. One of those is said to be in critical condition. We're told a suspect has been arrested in connection to the shooting, and police believe there was only one shooter. All classes, events and business operations at the university have been canceled through to tomorrow.
This is what one student on the scene had to say just a few moments ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CELESTE HALAVIN, STUDENT, FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY: I was actually on the phone in like the stairwell. I was in the library between like the fourth and fifth floor and like, people started flooding up the stairs. But like, nobody told me what happened.
So, then I started walking back up to the fifth floor. By the time I got there, there was like these girls and like, it was just chaos. Everyone was like, there's like a shooter and stuff. And so, like, these guys started like pressing the elevator button to have the elevators come up and like, put tables in the walkway to, like, block anyone from getting on the elevator. And then like, some other guys, like, closed the doors to the fifth floor and then put tables and stuff there.
We actually were by the windows. So, like at the windows, we saw cops running, students running. It was just like complete chaos. Everyone was like running all over the place.
And then we saw like a gurney and then like the gurney came back and the guy had his arm cut off and I think, like, he was bleeding and like he had, like, bandages and stuff, and so, like, that was really hard to see.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Every student's worst nightmare.
Let's bring in senior national security analyst Juliette Kayyem.
Thank you so much for joining us, Juliette.
So the latest we've got is according to law enforcement officials, one shooter, but a gun found on the suspect, also in the student union and in the suspect's car.
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yeah. Premeditated plan to do a lot more harm. We don't know the specifics of the guns. This is right now. I hate to say this good news in the sense that we have not. No confirmed fatalities.
But, you know, in a situation like this at a university like this, lockdown is very difficult because it's a very open university. It's not like a K-12 where you can close the classroom doors. Kids are milling about everywhere. And so right now, they have a suspect.
This is the part that's going to be the investigation, which is going to be both means -- what was, what were the guns? How did he get them? And then obviously motive. What was the purpose of this? If there was one that sort of extends beyond a mass shooting.
FOSTER: Yeah. We're told the ATF is tracing the serial numbers on the guns. Why is that so urgent?
KAYYEM: One is just sort of the acquisition of it. Were they a parent's guns? Were they his guns? When did he buy them? Was this was this something that he decided yesterday or a week ago and decided to buy?
They'll also have a criminal -- they'll be able to determine any sort of criminal background around the gun itself, because what we don't know right now in terms of motive is, is this someone who played around a lot with guns? Is this, you know, one of these sort of fixation with guns, or is this someone where something was triggered and has all of a sudden to do, wanted to do a mass shooting?
You and I have been around these long enough that the story of the -- of the shooter becomes much clearer in the days ahead that probably there are people who may have known or may have worried about him as he led to this moment. And the school, you know, was just in a position of just trying to get as many people to safety as possible and then lock down and then stay shut down just to make sure everyone is okay.
FOSTER: As we say, the suspect has been arrested, but we've just heard this from Tallahassee City commissioner Jack Porter. The whole community is on high alert right now, making sure that every school, every area is as secure as possible, that what does that suggest to you when they've got the suspect in custody?
KAYYEM: Some of that is just the sort of normal. I don't want to call it security theater, but it's just like you have a community that is now in shock. And it's not just the FSU community, it's everyone around them.
So, part of why political figures will say this, and I think rightfully so, is to let parents business owners, community leaders know that, that they'll continue to look, we -- we have pretty strong assurances that this was a single gunman at this stage, but they will need to investigate that.
And then you also worry one also worries about copycats.
[15:05:01]
And so you just want to make sure that the community feels like there is resolution as they determine what the motive is. But -- but a statement like that goes to something that I think in, in these gun violence instances in the United States, we really don't have a handle on and that's the social impact of these shootings that goes beyond how many dead, how many injured it is entire communities, student bodies, faculty the area around FSU are impacted by this. And, you know, we don't measure that, that in numbers, but you measure it in trauma and, and social impact.
FOSTER: Yeah. We've heard from the university as well all classes, events and business operations are canceled at FSU through Friday. Obviously, there's a police investigation. So, they want to be able to do their work there. But you know that, you know, does that sometimes add to the trauma that everyone is at home and they can't sort of decompress this together?
KAYYEM: Yes, it does. And this is -- there'll be residential areas. There will be a lot of -- unfortunately, these schools are sort of built for it. There'll be a lot of guidance offered to the students, probably open hours around, you know, people getting together. But -- but the impact on -- on the educational services, that is the purpose of this school are now going to extend at least until Monday.
And that's the -- that's the kind of stuff that there's also, you know, sort of a casualty of this gun violence. These are students who, you know, are sort of ending their term thesis. These are due this week, things like that that are all disrupted. Even if we don't have a mass casualty event because we don't know, how many how many right now are dead. We know how many are shot.
And -- and that is unfortunate for the school environment, especially one like this, which tends to be open, unlike a K through 12 school, a university like this wouldn't have attendance.
They wouldn't know who was on campus. So, they have to really take an accounting not just for themselves, but of course for parents that are calling in, maybe even driving there, making sure that their -- their children are okay.
FOSTER: Okay. Juliette, we'll come back to this as we get more information, but thank you for your analysis on at least what we know so far. Now, amid a global trade war that's rocked markets around the world,
President Donald Trump is escalating his feud with the U.S. Federal Reserve chairman. Mr. Trump welcomed Italian prime minister Giorgia Meloni to the White House for a meeting that could very well prove critical as to whether the U.S. and the E.U. can reach a deal on tariffs. The U.S. president says he's 100 percent confident about the prospects of reaching an agreement with Brussels.
And while trade was the focal point of their talks, President Trump was asked about his threat to move the Fed chair, Jerome Powell, from his position. Powell said on Wednesday that the massive U.S. tariffs will likely lead to a rise in inflation, and unemployment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think he's doing the job. He's too late. Always too late. A little slow.
And I'm not happy with him. Let him know it. And if I want him out, he'll be out of there real fast, believe me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Let's go straight to CNN's Kevin Liptak at the White House.
Do you think he's on his way out, or is this just a warning?
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: I think it could just be a warning. And Jerome Powell has said pretty distinctly that he will not resign from his post if he's asked to by the president, and he has said that it would, in fact, be illegal for the president to try and fire him. So, I think you could see a clash coming down the pike if Donald Trump decides to try and fire him. And I think that is, at the end of the day, a big if.
There are people inside this White House, including people inside the Oval Office, when the president was speaking there who think that any attempt to try and remove Powell from the head of the independent Federal Reserve would cause markets to tank. Scott Bessent, the treasury secretary, is one of them. And he was sitting two people down from the president as he was speaking just now.
But listen, Donald Trump has long had a thorn in his side when it comes to Jay Powell. Even during the first term, he thought that he could have lowered interest rates quicker. Today, he's pointing to the European Central Bank's decision to cut their own interest rates, and says that Jay Powell is going too slowly and he is now threatening this prospect of terminating him from the Federal Reserve, which I do think, despite all of the warnings from his advisers, is something you have to take seriously, particularly when you look at all of the other independent agencies around Washington that Donald Trump has tried to interfere in. You know, the Federal Trade Commission, the Federal Labor Board, he's removed officials from all of those places.
For now, the Supreme Court has allowed him to do it as they weigh the legality of it. And so, I think his own track record here points to him taking action that other presidents have stopped well, short of.
[15:10:04]
And so, we'll have to see how all of this plays out. Jay Powell has about a year left on his term as the chairman of the Federal Reserve. And you can bet that this clash will continue going forward. Max.
FOSTER: Well, with the meeting with the Italian prime minister, many people still have very fresh in their minds. The meeting with the Ukrainian president, don't they? Because that was the most famous of those meetings.
Let's just hear what President Trump had to say about Volodymyr Zelenskyy today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If you're smart, you don't' go involved and get involved in wars that -- you can blame the man that was sitting in this seat, Biden. He didn't know what the hell was going on. But I can guarantee you that. And everybody agrees to it. If I were president, that war would have never taken place.
I'm not blaming him, but what I am saying is that I wouldn't say he's done the greatest job. Okay? I'm not a big fan, I really am. I'm not a big fan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Well, normally we would say they were harsh words, but actually a bit of a softening from what he said before.
LIPTAK: Yeah, he didn't outright blame him for starting the conflict in his own country, which I guess is an improvement from what we've heard from the president previously. But it does put his guest there. Giorgia Meloni in an awkward position. She is someone who has maintained Italy's support for Ukraine, certainly tried to maintain western unity at a moment when it is fracturing at the hand of Donald Trump.
And so it was, I think, somewhat awkward to see her sitting there listening to that. She didn't obviously try to correct him in any way or smooth things over, but she did use the phrase "make the West great again", essentially trying to say to Donald Trump, I'm on your side here on a lot of different issues when it comes to migration. She specifically talked about combating wokeness and DEI, but when it does come to Ukraine, I think what she wants to do is act as something of a mediating force on the president as he tries to bring this conflict to an end.
I do think it was also notable in the meeting. He was asked about Russia and whether time was running out for Putin to avoid these new sanctions that the president has threatened if Russia doesn't come to the negotiating table and do more to end the conflict there. And the president said that he was planning to talk to Russia this week with the threat of these new sanctions potentially on the table. I think in the end, the president is growing very frustrated that his attempts to end this war haven't panned out. Remember, he promised he would be able to end it within a day of taking office. Obviously, this has proved much more complicated than he perhaps realized. He is frustrated at both sides, but I think his frustrations with Zelenskyy are what are catching people so off guard, really kind of shaking the Western alliance in a lot of ways.
Certainly, Meloni's attempt to try and bridge that gap was well- received at the White House today, but there's a lot further to go before. I think the two sides are all on the same page.
FOSTER: Yeah, definitely. Kevin, thank you so much.
Now we've just had some breaking news just in. A senior Hamas official says the group has rejected the latest ceasefire offer from Israel. Hamas is calling for a comprehensive proposal to end the war. The Israeli ceasefire offer didn't guarantee an end to the war, and it called for disarmament of Gaza, both of which have been red lines for the militant organization. We'll be live in Tel Aviv for a bit more on that later on.
Let's return, though, to the situation in Ukraine. U.S. and Ukrainian officials are in Paris holding their highest level talks in weeks. Earlier, U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Steve Witkoff, President Donald Trump's international envoy, were welcomed by the French president, Emmanuel Macron. They've been meeting with Ukrainian and European officials who are hoping to plead the case for bolstering Ukraine's defenses against Russia's unrelenting invasion.
Our chief national security correspondent, Alex Marquardt, joins us now.
Are the Europeans making any progress, Alex?
ALEXANDER MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: The French have said following these meetings, that it was an excellent day of talks. And this really does come at a critical moment. Max, you've had the Europeans essentially talking about what an international force, a European force, could look like in Ukraine if there is a ceasefire and eventual peace deal. Of course, the Americans have been speaking quite a bit with the Russians. We had Kirill Dmitriev, a top Putin aide, come here to Washington, Steve Witkoff, the envoy has gone to St. Petersburg recently to meet with Vladimir Putin.
So, there was a lot for them certainly to talk about. We have seen the Europeans, heard them frustrated frankly, that they were not included earlier in some of the conversations about getting to a peace deal in Ukraine. So this was the highest level meeting that we have seen so far that has included these top U.S. officials, top Europeans officials and top Ukrainian officials all at the same time.
It does not appear that there were any concrete agreements that came out of this. Remember, the Europeans are still pushing for some kind of security guarantee or help with that security from the Americans. [15:15:04]
The Americans have been reluctant to give that. Of course, the Europeans have also been arguing that you can't trust Putin and that Putin doesn't actually want peace. So, more pressure needs to be applied rather than reducing or lifting the sanctions on Russia, which is something that Putin has asked for.
So, it remains to be seen what actual concrete progress was made. The French have announced that more talks will take place next week. We've heard from the State Department, not clear on their end whether Marco Rubio will attend those talks, but as Kevin was just saying, President Trump's patience is certainly growing thin, and he does appear to realize that Putin is dragging his feet.
Remember, Max, it was more than a month ago that the U.S. called for an immediate and complete ceasefire across the front line in the Black Sea in Ukraine. The Ukrainians immediately agreed, but the Russians have not. The Russians have agreed to sort of incremental moves and said that there must be more conditions, that sanctions should be lifted.
And of course, there has also been your Ukrainian and European fear that perhaps the Trump administration is erring a bit too much on the side of the Russians. We have heard Steve Witkoff, who is now met with president Putin three times, essentially echoing a number of Putin's talking points about these areas that have been occupied by Russia and how they supposedly, overwhelmingly would like to be under Russian control. Russian control, which, of course, the Ukrainians completely reject.
But it is progress to see all of these officials at the same table. But the big question remains, Max, will there be a ceasefire anytime soon if the Russians are indeed dragging their feet, will the Americans actually apply more pressure in the form of sanctions or punishment, or send more weapons to Ukraine?
And on that front, we have not seen any real answer, but we have heard top officials from the U.S. talk about a time frame of weeks rather than months -- Max.
FOSTER: Okay, Alex, thank you so much for joining us from D.C. on that.
So, we're going to get some more breaking news from the Middle East. We were talking about earlier, a senior Hamas official saying the group has rejected the latest ceasefire offer from Israel.
Jeremy Diamond's across that one, what's the -- what's the reason, Jeremy?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, Hamas is rejecting this latest Israeli proposal that would have seen ten hostages released in exchange for hundreds of Palestinian prisoners and a 45- day truce. Hamas is saying instead that what they want to see is a comprehensive proposal, which would see the release of all of the hostages, but also an end to the war in Gaza, a permanent ceasefire.
We are now hearing directly from Khalil al-Hayya, the top negotiator for Hamas, who has been central to those negotiations in Doha, Qatar. He is saying that Hamas is ready to begin negotiations immediately towards that comprehensive package, saying that it would include the release of all hostages in exchange for an agreed upon number of Palestinian prisoners and indeed, an end of the war.
They also make clear that they are objecting to one of the items that was included in this latest Israeli proposal, which was talking about Hamas disarming the demilitarization of the Gaza strip, which al-Hayya is rejecting here, saying that the resistance and its weaponry are linked to the existence of the occupation, referring to Israel. And it is a natural right for our people and all peoples under occupation.
This is obviously a severe blow to what had seemed to be some real momentum in the direction of a potential new ceasefire agreement between these two sides that we have been watching over the course of the last week or so. Hamas had said that it was studying that latest Israeli proposal, did not immediately reject it out of hand. And this had followed several other proposals that that were effectively bridging proposals, you know, releasing a limited number of the 59 hostages who are being held you know, somewhere between the range of five and 11, which is what had been discussed, ultimately landing on this latest Israeli proposal for ten.
But what Hamas is saying here is not only that they are rejecting this specific proposal, but clearly that they are aiming for a grand bargain deal, not some kind of smaller deal that would see weeks or even months of additional ceasefire in exchange for a handful or a dozen hostages. What they want to see here is negotiations on an end to the war. And as part of that, would indeed release all of the hostages.
We know that that is not at all the position of the Israeli government. The Israeli government has not been interested so far in negotiating an end to the war, instead insisting, as the Israeli prime minister has done repeatedly on absolute victory on the destruction of Hamas, as well as the return and the release of the hostages as kind of the two concurrent goals of this war.
[15:20:03]
And so very clear that they are at an impasse. What will be interesting to see here is what the reaction is from the United States. We know, of course, that Adam Boehler, a hostage envoy for President Trump, had met directly with Khalil al-Hayya. In fact, with Hamas officials. But at the same time, you know, the Trump administration has also backed the Israeli prime minister's return to war. The breakdown of the ceasefire and everything that we have seen since then.
What this also, of course, means just from a human perspective, is that those 59 hostages, about 24 of whom we understand are still alive, will continue to suffer in miserable conditions in Gaza, many of them beneath tunnels. And the people of Gaza will also continue to suffer. It's now been more than a month since any kind of aid has gotten into Gaza. Since March 2nd, the Israeli government has blocked the entry of all humanitarian aid, all electricity, water, fuel. Nothing is getting into Gaza, and we are very much approaching a crisis point here.
FOSTER: Yeah, it's really depressing.
Jeremy, thank you so much. We'll be back in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: We have more now on the mass shooting today at Florida State University, multiple people have been injured and a suspect is in custody. We're expecting to hear an update from Tallahassee police in about an hour from now. A student at the university spoke to one of our affiliate stations a few hours ago about the scene that was unfolding.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Honestly, I just hope everyone is okay and I hope that, like, we can just do better precautions so this doesn't happen again. And I just feel awful for the students on there having to go through these emotions right now, dealing with the like, feeling scared for their lives. Honestly, it's really scary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Ryan Young, a former student at the university.
[15:25:03]
Thanks for joining us.
Our thoughts with everyone there. It's a very spread-out university. We're hearing from the police that it's pretty hard to secure, but they're trying.
RYAN YOUNG, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. Look, it's a large campus. It's a beautiful campus full of trees and very various greenery spread out over several miles. So, you understand this is the center of campus. It's almost like a small city in itself. And Tallahassee is the state capital for the state of Florida. But what we know is around 12:00, that initial tweet went out from the university saying everyone locked in place.
And we've been hearing from students detailing the lengths they went to make sure they were putting barriers up against the wall and trying to keep themselves secure. We've also seen that video that so many Americans have seen over and over again, with students having to come out of classroom with their arms up. That clearing process is still happening right now, with officers trying to secure this very vast campus.
On top of that, we do know at least one person is in critical and five others are in serious condition as they work through that at the local hospital, a level one trauma center there. But we also know that police have been able to recover several weapons, a shotgun and a handgun on the shooter.
And not sure about the shooter's status as well. Was that person injured? What was happening?
Social media videos are flooding the internet with scenes of officers running with long weapons as they try to clear that campus. What we do know right now is all athletic programs, and the university itself has been shut down for the next few days. They're going to use a civic center, an arena to reunify some of the students, their parents or loved ones or friends.
And as we continue to hear these stories, you understand how terrifying this must have been for this campus as they heard shot after shot. And as you mentioned, yes, I attended this university. I know it very well.
This is also not the first time there has been a shooting on campus. Back in 2014, there was another shooting where three people were shot. So there's been a lot of procedures put in place at this particular university where they can sort of be ready to respond to a shooting.
But at the same time, Max, as we know, we've talked about this over and over again. No one expects an active shooter to roll up on campus at any time, especially one that's open to the public and so vast like this one is.
FOSTER: I mean, in your day, you wouldn't have had this active shooter training, right? We were hearing from a student today that they -- they had that and they feel so grateful for it now. But I have to say, for people outside the United States, it's extraordinary that you have to have that sort of training these days.
YOUNG: Sort of talks about our age. But I remember doing active. We used to do the nuclear bomb training when I was a kid, and you would hide under a desk, you know what I mean? So that's not -- not a part of my story when it comes to FSU.
And when you think about the fact of how this has gone on and you think about these kids in particular, these are kids that are used to not only the cycle of COVID taking away maybe their senior year or the fact that they've dealt with school shooting, after school shooting, after school shooting.
So, what you're hearing from a lot of these kids is, I've seen this before. I didn't think it was going to happen to me. I certainly didn't think it was going to happen here. But that's something that almost gets old to a lot of us. And on top of that, now, it's a real impact on all these students, a place that a lot of them feel pretty safe. It's now pretty much been taken from them.
Of course, the new details hopefully coming out within the next hour. We'll find out more about the shooter. Was he a student? Was it someone coming from off campus? These are all things that we desperately want to know. FOSTER: We have had some relatively positive news that the shelter in
place order has been lifted, so the police feel pretty confident to do that. Thank you, Ryan.
YOUNG: Absolutely. Thanks.
FOSTER: Still to come as the clock ticks down on the pause of President Trump's threatened tariffs, one of his closest European allies says she's sure the countries can strike a deal.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:32:15]
FOSTER: Italy's prime minister says she's ready to make a trade deal with the United States. Giorgia Meloni and President Donald Trump spoke to reporters just a short while ago at the White House. They met amid a 90-day pause of Mr. Trump's threatened new tariffs on the European Union. And Prime Minister Meloni says he has accepted an invitation to make an official visit to Rome.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GIORGIA MELONI, ITALIAN PRIME MINISTER: I'm sure we can make a deal. And I'm here to help on that. I cannot look deal in the name of the European Union. My goal would be to invite the President Trump to pay an official visit to Italy and understand if there's a possibility when it comes to organize, also, such a meeting with Europe.
(END VIDEO CLIP
FOSTER: Ben Wedeman following developments from Rome.
I mean, doing a trade deal with Italy would be one thing. Obviously, two leaders that get on very well, but one with the European Union, that seems some way off.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It does seem somewhat way off, Max, but certainly, Meloni, who has been talking quite frequently with Ursula von der Leyen, the commissioner of -- the president of the European Commission, to sort of coordinate their positions because given that Meloni and we saw in that press availability in the Oval Office at the White House just how much there is a club of mutual admiration between President Trump and Prime Minister Meloni, that Meloni is the person, if anybody in there -- is there in Europe who can convince President Trump to reduce or reach some sort of agreement on trade, that would avoid the imposition of these 20 percent tariffs on top of the tariffs already been put in place by the United States on the European, the countries of the European Union.
So, certainly, if anybody can do it, Prime Minister Meloni can. And of course, the sweetener in all of that was this official invitation to Rome. Now, from what she said in the oval office, it wasn't altogether clear if she's talking about bringing other European leaders to Rome to meet with President Trump, to work out some sort of agreement. But certainly, what we heard from both leaders was, as a lot of enthusiasm, given the challenges, given the threats we've heard from President Trump basically since -- since he was inaugurated back in January.
And president and Prime Minister Meloni really did sing President Trump's favorite tunes. She said, they agree on things like DEI, on illegal immigration, on illegal drugs being smuggled into, respectively, the United States and the European Union.
[15:35:13]
And of course, she did come out with this phrase very much along the lines of what President Trump likes to hear. She said her goal is to make the West great again -- Max.
FOSTER: Yeah, she really did press a lot of the correct buttons, didn't she?
Ben, thank you so much.
Elsewhere in Italy, at least four people have died after a cable car plunged into a ravine. The accident happened on a mountain near the popular tourist destination of Sorrento. Authorities say the cable snapped in severe weather. One person survived the fall, according to Italy's fire brigade, but was severely injured and airlifted to a hospital in Naples. An investigation into the accident has opened.
Now coming up, foreign students from around the world dream of studying at Harvard. The Trump administration is taking action that could stop that from ever becoming a reality.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: Right now, Harvard University is on the front lines of a broader battle for university's autonomy. Both the schools funding and its enrollment process are in the crosshairs of the Trump administration.
Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem is threatening to revoke Harvard's ability to enroll international students. That's if the Ivy League school chooses to not turn over student disciplinary records. This move comes on top of the administration's $2 billion freeze in federal funding and its threat to take away Harvard's tax-exempt status.
Evan Perez watching this.
I was just looking this up, Evan, 27 percent of the total enrollment are international students. They on average pay more as well. Don't they tend to pay the full fee as well?
So, in terms of finances, Harvard is really about to be clobbered.
[15:40:03]
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR U.S. JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: No, absolutely, Max. And I think that is the point that the Trump administration is trying to bring to bear. They want to turn the screws. They want to turn the pressure up on Harvard University. This is the nation's oldest university, obviously one of the most prestigious universities in the world.
And as you pointed out, those foreign students, those exchange students are certainly among the most prized in the U.S. university system because as you as you pointed out, they pay full freight. They tend to pay their full tuition, but also because of the prestige it brings to the university. Obviously, having that international presence at the university adds to the student life.
And what we've heard from the Homeland Security Department, according to this letter that they sent to Harvard University, what they're looking for is they want records of students, people who had visas in the United States and who may have participated in some of those protests over the past year over the Gaza war. They want those records because, again, they've been going after students who played any role in those protests.
Now, the whole point of this, according to the administration, is to try to root out antisemitism. But if you read the language that are -- that you see from Donald Trump in his social media postings and in some of these letters, it's clear they're after something else. They want Harvard, which they view as some kind of bastion of liberal thinking, left leftist thinking. They want there to be more conservative viewpoints on that campus, which is why the administration is demanding for Harvard essentially to give in to more oversight from the federal government to oversee its hiring of professors, its admissions policies. What -- what the university is teaching, all of which Harvard says are beyond the pale.
They say that they are not going to give in to these pressures from the administration. So at this point, Max, we expect that this is going to be a long, drawn-out legal fight, right? Because this is going to go to the courts.
And we'll see whether the U.S. Supreme Court agrees with the administration that because this is federal money, there's about $2 billion that has been frozen, that the U.S. government can decide how to dole that out.
Or whether Harvard is right, that it should, as a private university, have the power to control what it teaches, how it teaches it, and who it admits. This has never been done before in the United States. And so, this is truly a test case.
FOSTER: I'm just wondering how long they can go on for that. $2 billion, apparently, is having a huge impact already. I mean, research programs being closed down and people effectively out of work because they're not getting the funding. You know, the court process will be immensely long, won't it? I mean, there's going to be a huge impact either way.
PEREZ: It is -- it is already having that kind of impact. You see, the professors and people who do some of the research, important research, medical research at Harvard, already having to figure out what research they might need to shut down. Their animals that are being -- that are being used in certain long research programs that they -- that they have going, that they're trying to figure out whether those animals are going to be able to live while those -- that research is being done. And so those are some of the decisions that are being made right now by Harvard.
Now, Harvard is one of the wealthiest universities in the United States. They have an endowment of about $53 billion. So, it is a very wealthy university.
And so, this is probably the university, the one university that can fight the U.S. government for at least a long time to while this goes through the court system. But your point, your point is right that it is going to have an impact. And what you're going to see, at least in the interim, is that important research that comes from universities like Harvard just will not happen because the U.S. government is fighting this battle.
And we expect, by the way, Max, that Harvard is not the last to do this, that they're going to go after other universities. They've already gone after Columbia, which has tried to make a deal with the Trump administration. But other universities are also being scrutinized for similar activity.
FOSTER: Okay, Evan, thank you so much.
PEREZ: Thank you.
FOSTER: Still to come, scientists may have discovered the strongest evidence yet of life on another planet. Aliens, possibly. We'll discuss the clues that they have found.
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[15:47:11]
FOSTER: Welcome back.
Now to a potential landmark discovery, the strongest evidence yet of life on an alien planet.
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FOSTER: OK, so that wasn't it, but that was "Close Encounters of the Third Kind", of course.
But what real scientists are saying is that they've picked up on signs of gases in the atmosphere of the planet K218B, far beyond our solar system, using the James Webb space telescope. Those gases are generated mostly by bacteria, that's the interesting bit, and marine algae on Earth.
The possible biosignature suggests the planet could be teeming with microbial life. About 124 light years away, apparently. Take a listen to the lead researcher. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIKKU MADHUSUDHAN, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF CAMBRIDGE INSTITUTE OF ASTRONOMY: I want to take a step back. And for us, as a species, to appreciate how far we have come, the -- even the act of being able to detect these molecules in a habitable zone, planet 120 light years away, is a huge technological achievement. And that, in my mind, is the real breakthrough for us as a species. How far we have come as an advanced civilization.
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FOSTER: Digging deeper, Allison Chinchar.
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ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Scientists say they have found the first hints that another planet may be inhabited by alien life. Using the ultra powerful James Webb Space Telescope, while observing the planet named K218B, scientists found traces of gases that, on Earth at least, are only produced by living things on the planet. On Earth, these gases dimethyl sulfide and dimethyl disulfide, are primarily made by microbial life like algae, which suggests similar organisms could live on the planet's surface.
MADHUSUDHAN: Both of these molecules are known to be uniquely produced by life here on Earth, mostly by microorganisms and organic matter in general, and the amounts that we are seeing on this -- on this planet, it is currently, we don't know of an abiotic process, non-biological process that can cause these molecules in the atmosphere at the levels we are seeing.
CHINCHAR: The planet is about 124 light years away from Earth, and lies in the constellation Leo. Scientists speculate the entire planet is covered in one giant ocean, which could be an environment teeming with microbial life. While the findings are promising, scientists are not saying actual living organisms have been found and stress more research is needed.
[15:50:00]
MADHUSUDHAN: If this is confirmed, like in a -- maybe in a couple of decades, we might look back at science and think that that's when that breakthrough happened. And that was the turning point. It is also possible that in a few years, we'll realize that actually there is other and other chemical processes, a process that could explain this, and that would be a discovery of new chemical process.
So, however, you cut it, I think this is a win for science.
CHINCHAR: Allison Chinchar. CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: So, are we alone in the universe?
For the answer, let's bring in the associate professor of astronomy at Cornell University, Nikole Lewis.
Obviously, the biggest question and an impossible one to answer, but there's something about the idea that were not alone that shifts the psyche, isn't there. That's what makes sort of the alien story in space narrative so intriguing.
NIKOLE LEWIS, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF ASTRONOMY, CORNELL UNIVERSITY: Yeah, definitely. I mean, you know, as an astronomer, it's a big part of what? You know, the reason I get up in the morning is thinking about how did this universe form, how did our solar system form, how did life get here?
And then also, is there life in other parts of our universe, and is that life anything like us? And that's, I think, one of the more intriguing questions, what is life look like that's -- that's maybe not identical to the life that we know of here on Earth?
FOSTER: What's it starting to look like?
LEWIS: Well, it's starting to look like we have lots of interesting planets out there. I mean, we know of more than 6,000 exoplanets around other stars at this point, and most of them actually don't bear any resemblance to Earth at all.
And so really, what we're starting to grapple with is, is how do we recognize life when it doesn't present itself as being on a planet that's just like earth, just the same distance from a sun like star. And then also, you know, basically giving us the same exact signals that we would expect if we saw ourselves from a great distance. And that's part of what this study is trying to grapple with.
FOSTER: Yeah. Because we struggle, don't we? When things are outside our own reality. You're talking there about what does life look like? And this is part of the scenario planning. Presumably when you get bits of information, you're actually thinking of a new way of living as well.
So, what are the -- what are the theories there?
LEWIS: Yeah. I mean, I think the important thing is that this planet, K218B, is actually about twice the size of Earth and weighs about eight times as much as Earth. And we categorize this planet as what we call a mini-Neptune. They don't exist in our solar system.
And so, we have literally no reference point for what, maybe what these planets look like, what kind of biospheres that they might be on these planets, but they are the most numerous type of planet out there in our galaxy. And so, this is an important question we've been asking ourselves. And there's a lot of research that still needs to be done to understand what it might look like for life to evolve on planets like these, and what those signals might look like from a telescope like JWST.
FOSTER: When I talk to my kids about this sort of thing, they'll say, if there were aliens, they would have contacted us. What's your answer to that? Because I'm sure you've been asked it as well. Much more than me.
LEWIS: Yeah, yeah. No. And you know, when I teach, I often do an exercise with my students where I ask them to go through and use what we call the drake equation, which allows us to have this construct for trying to understand how many civilizations that, you know, have basically other humans on them, on those planets exist out there.
And, you know, those estimates end up ranging from basically, there's no one out there that\s like us to, you know, there are hundreds of thousands of other civilizations out there like us. But the reality is, is that, you know, life is likely to involve a lot of different scenarios. In our own solar system, we're looking for life in the oceans of Europa, which is not going to be the kind that we can talk to, but it's still very exciting.
And so, we're seeing this same paradigm as we head into exploring exoplanets, were unlikely to see other, you know, basically humans, but were likely to see lots of other types of life.
FOSTER: In terms of the technology, I mean, what is the shift change we're waiting for?
LEWIS: Yeah, I mean, we are in actually, that shift change right now. You know, JWST was our first opportunity to look at these planets in the type of light this is infrared light that we use to probe these planets where we could actually start to see these molecules and actually start to think about whether or not were seeing a biosignature gas in these planetary atmospheres.
Now, most of these planets, again, are not like earth. They're also not around sunlike stars. And as we move forward, we're going to have to develop new technology and ever bigger telescopes to be able to look for the same types of signals we might hope to see on an Earth twin using something called direct imaging, where we can actually take pictures of the planets and probe them directly.
So that's probably in the next sort of 20- to 40-year range before we have those technological advances.
FOSTER: Okay. Well, we'll bring you back as soon as we have those images.
Nikole, thank you.
LEWIS: Yes, of course.
FOSTER: Okay. Weve got some updates on the mass shooting at Florida State University. Law enforcement has now neutralized the threat, we're told, and the campus is now secure, according to local police and the university.
We have the first video of the moment of gunfire as well. We want to warn you, this video is disturbing.
This appears to show at least one victim on the ground and people running at the sound of gunfire near the student union. We're expecting to hear from Tallahassee police in the next hour. So that's when well get the first proper detail. We will, of course, bring it to you.
But for now, thank you for joining us on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Max Foster.
Richard's up next.
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RICHARD QUEST, CNN HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Closing bell ringing on Wall Street today. The day's been really strange. A lot of news, a lot of market movements.
