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Senator Van Hollen Visits Kilmar Abrego Garcia In El Salvador; Justice Alito Slams Supreme Court On Dissent For Blocking Trump's Deportation On Venezuelans; FSU To Resume Classes On Monday But With Options; Records Related To RFK's Assassination Ordered Released; Oklahoma Faces Historical Weather Event; Strongest Evidence Yet Of Life Found Far, Far Away; Wave Of Deportations Leaves International Students In Limbo. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired April 20, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: And this is the couple's first child. Ohtani thanked the Dodger's organization, his teammates, and fans for their support and encouragement. Congratulations. Very precious. All right, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. The "CNN Newsroom" continues with Jessica Dean right now.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: You're in the "CNN Newsroom." I'm Jessica Dean in New York. And tonight, a stark warning from a Democratic lawmaker who says the case of a mistakenly deported father to El Salvador represents a threat to all Americans. Senator Chris Van Hollen saying the Trump administration is deliberately ignoring court orders to facilitate Kilmar Abrego Garcia's return to the U.S. The senator traveled to El Salvador and met with him Friday.

And during his visit, Van Hollen says he met with U.S. embassy employees who told him they had not received any instructions from the Trump administration to facilitate Abrego Garcia's release. The Justice Department has acknowledged his removal was what they call an administrative error, but the White House says the Maryland father will not be returning to the U.S. CNN's Kevin Liptak is joining us from the White House. And, Kevin, Senator Van Hollen appearing on CNN's "State of the Union" earlier today. What else did he say?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah. He's essentially describing this trip that he took last week as a fact finding mission. One, to try and ascertain more about the conditions that Abrego Garcia was being held in in El Salvador, and two, trying to discern whether the United States was doing anything to facilitate his return, which a judge had ordered them to do.

Now on the first point, it did seem as if he was able to describe some new details about the conditions that Abrego Garcia is in. For example, he learned he is not being held at CECOT, which is that mega prison that a number of terrorists are being held in. He's at a lower security facility. Van Hollen was also able to meet him at his hotel, but he did describe finding Abrego Garcia essentially in a state of distress at his predicament. Listen to more of Van Hollen from today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): He was sad and traumatized that he was being in prison because he has committed no crimes. And that goes to the heart of this issue because he's being denied his due process rights, and Donald Trump is trying to change the subject. If we deny the constitutional rights of this one man, it threatens their constitutional rights of everybody in America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIPTAK: So you hear him getting at this question of whether the U.S. was doing anything to return him to The United States. Van Hollen says that the Trump administration is outright defying that court order to facilitate his return from El Salvador. The administration has said that he will never return to the United States. That was after a federal appeals judge said late last week that the administration needed to take a more active role in returning him to the U.S.

Instead, what you've seen the administration do is try and come up with evidence that he is a gang member, a member of MS-13, trying to point to incidents in his past that they say are evidence of criminality, all sort of skirting this issue of whether his deportation was a mistake in the first place, which is exactly what administration lawyers have said happened. They said it was an administrative error.

Today, you're even hearing from some allies of this White House who say that this was a mistake. Senator John Kennedy from Louisiana, ordinarily a very staunch ally of President Trump, says that this was an evidence of the administration screwing up. And so you hear a variety of different, sort of viewpoints coming out on this case, but I think it's clear, that the White House at this stage will not be doing anything to return Kilmar Abrego Garcia back to Maryland. Jessica?

DEAN: All right. Kevin Liptak at the White House, thank you so much for that update. Also tonight, we are hearing from one of the Supreme Court justices in a scathing dissent criticizing his colleagues for temporarily blocking the Trump administration's use of a wartime law to speed up deportations. CNN senior reporter Marshall Cohen is joining us from Washington with details on this. Marshall, this follows that rare very early morning ruling we got from the Supreme Court yesterday. What did Justice Alito say in his dissent?

MRASHALL COHEN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yeah. Hey, Jessica. So much happening on the immigration and deportation front. You just heard from Kevin Liptak about this Maryland father who was part of one deportation effort from the Trump administration. Now, we're talking about a separate effort from the administration to use a law called the Alien Enemies Act.

[17:04:57]

You know who was president that signed that law, into effect? It was John Adams in the 1700's in the colonial era, and President Trump is trying to use that to speed up deportations of Venezuelan migrants that the administration argues are suspected gang members. So this activity at the Supreme Court really coming at a rapid clip in the last couple days because late on Friday, lawyers from the ACLU claimed that some of their clients, these Venezuelan migrants, were being loaded onto buses, potentially being ferried over to an airport tarmac to be flown out of the country, possibly in violation of court orders because the Supreme Court said a few weeks ago that, yes, the administration can use this law from 1798, but the administration needs to give notice. The administration needs to let these migrants contest it in court.

And the ACLU was arguing that this was a rush job without any due process. So early yesterday morning, 1:00 a.m., very uncommon for that to happen, the court put a pause on all that. And later yesterday, Justice Alito released his dissent. He was not in the majority. It appeared to be a 7-2 decision. The seven didn't really explain much about what they were doing. It was an emergency order, but Alito spoke out and gave, his two cents.

And, Jessica, it was it was rough. Let me read for you a little bit about what he said. Quote, "Literally, in the middle of the night, the court issued unprecedented and legally questionable relief without giving the lower courts a chance to rule, without hearing from the opposing party, within eight hours of receiving the application, with dubious factual support for its order, and without providing any explanation."

Scathing stuff. Of course, he was on the losing end of this, but that was just a temporary emergency order from the court. We are expecting them to weigh in again in the coming days once we get out of this holiday weekend, hopefully, with some clarity on what needs to happen next in this very controversial deportation effort from the Trump administration.

DEAN: We know there is more to come. Marshall Cohen with the latest, though, as of right now. Thank you so much for that. And let's talk more about this with our panel. We're joined now by CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist, Maria Cardona, and Republican strategist and former White House spokesperson during the George W. Bush administration, Pete Seat. Good to see both of you.

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You too, Jessica.

DEAN: And a Happy Easter to all.

CARDONA: You as well.

DEAN: Pete, this, this decision from the Supreme Court was 7-2 with those conservative justices join -- some of those conservative justices joining with the liberal justices on that. What do you read into this descent today from Justice Alito?

PETE SEAT, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, I think he's speaking for a lot of Americans who -- there's a palpable frustration out there about the glacial pace of immigration policy in this country. And now you have a president who is trying to do what others failed to do, and that is act on illegal immigration. But every time the courts tie his hands, it plays into his hands politically.

And I think in some way, Justice Alito was expressing that through judicial legalese language. But when you look at the polling, this is the politics of immigration and particularly the politics of deportation. Donald Trump is on the right side politically. We see that in polls. His job approval on immigration is at its highest level. A plurality of Americans believe his immigration policies are on the right track, and 56 percent of Americans believe that all illegal immigrants should be deported, not just criminals, but all illegal immigrants.

DEAN: What do you think, Maria?

CARDONA: You know, where this -- the politics don't work for this White House is the politics of shredding the Constitution, the politics of ignoring due process, the politics of trampling on civil liberties, the politics of ignoring the foundational and fundamental values and rights that this country was based on. And that is what this administration is doing.

And you see it with the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia. Senator Van Hollen has been talking about this ever since he got back from El Salvador. And I know Republicans love to think that Senator Van Hollen is out there just defending Abrego Garcia, but it is much bigger than that, Jessica. Senator Van Hollen and Democrats are defending the Constitutional rights of every single American and every person who lives in this country.

Because what this administration has done, they have kidnapped this man. They have not presented an iota of evidence in court that he is guilty of anything that they are accusing him of.

[17:09:59]

This man was convicted of less crimes than the president of the United States by 34. And so due process means something to Americans. And that's why you're seeing the administration trying to muddy the waters, continuing to lie, continuing to gaslight the American people because they are on their back feet on this. They are on their heels because they know that Americans did not vote for authoritarianism, for an autocratic regime that is willing to take away the rights of someone who the court has said can be here until his asylum case is heard, and specifically that he could not be deported to El Salvador.

And the Supreme Court of the United States by 9-0 said the administration after they admitted themselves that they deported him erroneously, that they had to facilitate his return, and they are ignoring that. That is not what the American people voted for.

DEAN: I am curious though, Maria, just purely politically because you do as we've said again and again, the administration itself has said that this was done in error. This was a mistake that this man was sent. Putting that to the side, politically, you know, Pete notes all of the, polling on how Americans feel about immigration. And so, politically, do you think that that Democrats can thread the needle from this one individual to getting a broad spectrum of Americans on their side here to really buy in that this is threatening their due process rights?

CARDONA: I absolutely think they can, and they need to continue to aggressively talk about this because this is not just about Abrego Garcia. This is about the due process and the civil liberty and the rights of you, Jessica, of you, Pete, of me, of all of our families. Because again, if the Trump administration can go in and kidnap this man and take him off of the streets, and by the way, he's not the only one that this has happened to, and go into court and not offer an iota of evidence, and then take him, you know, in in the dead of night to a terrorist camp in El Salvador without rhyme or reason and without saying a thing, who's to say that they can't do it to anyone?

And talking about immigration, Pete is wrong on this. And look, the polling is not done correctly on this either. If you ask Americans if they prefer if the immigrants who have been here for years and have paid taxes and have followed the rules and have followed the laws and have raised families and have businesses and contributed trillions of dollars to this economy, including DACA students, whether they should be given a chance to a pathway to citizenship versus just deporting them outright, the majority of Americans, including the majority of Republicans will say they should be giving a pathway to citizenship.

Now let's be very clear about this because this is another thing that Republicans love to gaslight and lie about. Democrats agree, as do all Americans, that if these undocumented immigrants have committed crimes and are violent criminals, get them out. But you have to have due process, And that is not what was given to Abrego Garcia. And if they can do it to him, they can do it to any of us, and that's not what Americans voted for.

DEAN: Pete, what do you say to all of that?

SEAT: Well, there's a huge difference between all of us and Abrego Garcia. He is not an American. He's not a citizen of this country. And, yes, he has committed a crime by his own admission, Maria, and that is when he entered this country illegally 13 years ago. He has been in the United States illegally. Again, by his own admission, that is a federal crime. So trying to gloss over this and say he hasn't committed a crime, yes, he has. So when Chris Van Hollen and other Democrats --

CARDON: He wasn't convicted of anything in court.

SEAT: -- want to make him -- when Chris Van Hollen and other Democrats want to make him the poster child of immigration, they're barking up the wrong tree. Americans look at this and say, wait. Excuse me, Democrats. You pretended like inflation wasn't an issue. You have pretended for years and years and years that the border wasn't an issue. But by gosh, a guy who had a deportation order is mistakenly, I agree, mistakenly sent to El Salvador and Chris Van Hollen can't wait to pack his overnight bag and get down there, that does not look good.

CARDONA: What doesn't look good is stripping Americans of their due process, trampling on the U.S. Constitution, and slipping, frankly diving into authoritarianism with an administration who believes they can rip people off of the streets and send them in the dead of night over to El Salvador when the courts have said they could not deport him to El Salvador, and they are not doing anything about it.

[17:14:56]

I'm sorry. That is not what Americans voted for, and Democrats will be fighting for the due process and the constitutional rights of every American, every person that lives in this country from now and every single day and twice on Sunday. And we will go toe to toe with this administration who does not believe that Americans should have those constitutional rights, and I believe we will win that battle.

DEAN: All right. Maria and Pete, a lively conversation there. We really appreciate both of you being here on this Sunday. Have a great day.

CARDONA: Thanks so much, Jessica.

DEAN: Still ahead, how Florida State is adjusting the final weeks of its spring semester with the community still reeling from a deadly mass shooting on campus. And more than 20 million people in the Central United States are under the threat of potentially dangerous and destructive weather as the same storms that killed two people in Oklahoma now move east.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:20:00]

DEAN: An Easter surprise for worshipers in Vatican Square this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE FRANCIS, HEAD OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH (through translation): Dear brothers and sisters, Happy Easter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Pope Francis giving the traditional Easter blessing from the balcony of Saint Peter's Basilica. The 88-year-old pontiff is still recovering from double pneumonia, which has left him unable to speak for long periods of time. Before giving the blessing, the pope had a private meeting with Vice President J.D. Vance. The Vatican said the short meeting, quote, "provided an opportunity to exchange Easter greetings."

Classes are set to resume tomorrow at Florida State University following Thursday's deadly mass shooting on campus, but the school's president is waiving the mandatory attendance policy due to concerns from some students. Rafael Romo is joining us now with more on this. So, Rafael, what are the options for FSU students as they get into the final weeks of their classes now?

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Jessica. Well, remote learning will be okay in some cases and there will be plenty of flexibility for students given what just happened this week. It's the last one before finals, and FSU president Richard McCullough says he knows it will certainly not feel like a typical week. Some students return to campus for the first time this weekend since Thursday when a 20-year-old FSU student allegedly opened fire near the university student union, killing two men and leaving several others injured.

People formed prayer circles near the largest memorial on campus located on the FSU pathway called Legacy Walk near the student union. And Jessica, a CNN team counted about half a dozen memorials around campus on Saturday, mostly in the same area near the student union. And given the circumstances, some students, faculty, and staff wondered if campus would reopen this week.

In a video message published on Saturday, FSU president McCullough said that while classes will resume Monday, the university will provide students and instructors with several options, and this is part of his message. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD MCCULLOUGH, PRESIDENT, FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY: And we understand that some of you may not be able to return on Monday. It's okay. It's okay. We will be flexible and find a way to accommodate you. I promise. Please take care of yourself. If you need time or support, reach out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMO: Jessica, according to McCullough, that flexibility is aimed at making sure everyone who needs support gets the help they need during this difficult time. An FSU student shared with CNN the struggle he feels about going back to campus after the shooting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REID SEYBOLD, STUDENT, FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY: I don't feel safe right now being on campus. I don't know where -- how we're gonna do it, but, you know, there's a reason that Florida State is unconquered. We're stronger together. We will always move forward, whatever that looks like.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMO: According to authorities, the suspect in the shooting, identified as 20-year-old Phoenix Eichner, is the son of a Leon County Sheriff's Deputy and an FSU student. Tallahassee police chief Lawrence Ravel said Thursday there do not appear to be any connections between Eichner and any of the victims. Jessica?

DEAN: All right. Rafael Romo with the update for us. Thank you so much.

Up next, we're gonna talk with somebody who is an expert, wrote the book on Senator Robert F. Kennedy's assassination as the Trump administration releases thousands of pages of records that haven't been seen in decades.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [17:25:00]

DEAN: The assassination of Robert F. Kennedy is back in the spotlight. On Friday, the Trump administration released thousands of files on the 1968 assassination of Senator Kennedy. It is part of President Trump's push to declassify records on a series of high profile assassinations from the 1960's. The senator from New York was shot at a Los Angeles hotel on June 5, 1968 while celebrating his presidential primary when they're in California. His killer remains in prison today and has been denied parole 17 times.

Joining me now, author, investigative journalist, and filmmaker, Tim Tate. Tim, thank you so much for being here. I know you co-wrote the book, "The Assassination of Robert F. Kennedy" after investigating this case for more than a quarter of a century, so you are quite familiar with it and quite expert at it at this point. Nearly all of these assassination documents were released from several local agencies and the FBI to the California State Archives in the late 1950s. So why do this now? Do does this new, push to declassify them reveal anything significant?

TIM TATE, AUTHOR, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST & FILMMAKER: No is a simple answer. The files that have been released are primarily duplicates of files which are at the California State Archives and have been since around 1990. And the -- primarily FBI and DOJ, Department of Justice files and all of those, DOJ and, FBI files, have been at the California State Archives for all this time and indeed meant all of them have been digit -- those have been digitized and are available online via the Mary Farrell Foundation.

[17:30:03]

So, in that sense, there's nothing new. There are some State Department -- oh, yes, State Department files, but they don't tell us anything particularly interesting. They're basically cables from governments around the world expressing sympathy and condolences as you would expect.

Why has the Trump administration released these files? Well, I think they had to. I think they found them. As they've said, they found them in boxes, in FBI warehouses. And if they haven't released them, if they had sat on them and said, oh, no, this has all been released before, there would have been those who said, this doesn't smell right. So, I think they had to release those files, and they've done the right thing in doing so. But they don't change either the official version of events or the true version of events, which is rather different.

DEAN: Right. And then I do -- that's what I wanted to ask you. Does this -- does this change anything? Does the -- it sounds like, based on what we've read, but also what you're saying, this is all very much in line with what we have known.

TATE: Sure. I mean, the -- the -- the key point about both the assassination and these files is that Robert Kennedy was shot at 12:15 a.m. from behind, at a distance of between one and a half and three inches. That's in the autopsy report, and that autopsy report has been available for many, many years.

Sirhan, who was convict -- was convicted of the -- of the assassination, was always in front of Robert Kennedy and never closer than three feet. Now it's a simple matter of physics. Someone who's three feet in front of a victim cannot shoot that victim from behind at a distance of one and a half to three inches. That is simply impossible.

And these files, the ones that have been released, they reinforce that, the autopsy findings. There are -- indeed, there are autopsy photographs, which I hadn't seen before, to be fair. They reinforce the fact that the simple physics and forensics of LAPD's investigation and the FBI investigation show that Sirhan did not and could not have fired the fatal shots. Yes, he fired his revolver, yes, he wounded five other people, but he -- he simply could not have fired the shots which killed Robert Kennedy.

DEAN: And so, who did? Right?

TATE: That's -- that was the -- that was roughly where we started with the book, my colleague and I. I'd actually been working on this, as had he, for 20 odd years before then. I've made a film, a documentary for A&E Networks in the states, in channel 4, here in the UK in 1992. And we began with the simple physical findings, the autopsy, all the eyewitness statements, every single one, placing Sirhan in front, not behind Kennedy, and we worked out from there.

When we started work on the book, we did that, too, but then we said, very simply, if Sirhan didn't do it, who could have done? And that's where the files, the FBI files, particularly, in the California State Archive and repeated in this latest drop prove interesting because they show that the FBI was told and given the names of people and organizations who had been plotting to kill Robert Kennedy if he won the California State primary, and the FBI did nothing with that information.

DEAN: Hmm. All right. Well, more to learn and -- and more to come, but Tim Tate, we will leave it there for now. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

TATE: Thank you for having me.

DEAN: Uh-hmm. And coming up, scientists may have just taken a giant step toward finding life on a distant planet. How they made the incredible discovery and what it could mean for NASA's future.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: Millions of people are tonight under the threat of severe weather with warnings of storms and tornadoes sweeping across several states from Texas to Illinois. Last night, heavy flooding killed two people in Central Oklahoma. A woman and her 12 -- a 12-year-old boy died after their truck was swept off the road there. Authorities say as of this morning, there have been dozens of high-water events, calling these storms a historical weather event.

Allison Chinchar has more. Allison?

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: The threat is a twofold today. We have not only the potential for severe thunderstorms, but we also have the potential for flooding. And you'll notice on the map that both of those threats kind of encompass some of the same states. The overall threat area includes Southern Plains all the way up into portions of the Midwest.

Now the severe threats themselves, we're talking damaging winds up around 60 to 70 miles per hour, hail that could be golf ball size or even larger, and yes, the potential for a few tornadoes. This includes Memphis, Kansas City, Saint Louis, all the way down towards Shreveport, Louisiana.

Now here's a look at the system as it continues to slide. The bulk of it really for the last 24 to 36 really hasn't moved all that much. But by the time we go through the afternoon and evening hours tonight, we finally start to see it exit states like Texas and Oklahoma and really begin to push eastward.

[17:40:04]

This is good news for the flooding threat because it's finally going to relieve some of these areas from additional moisture. By tomorrow morning, we're finally starting to see it spread into the Ohio and Tennessee valleys. This means, for the Monday morning commute, places like Cincinnati, Nashville, and even Detroit could be looking at a very soggy start to the day. By late into the day, Monday, now we start to see it spread into portions of the northeast, mid-Atlantic, and also into the southeast, places like Knoxville and Huntsville, Alabama.

Here is the overall threat for the excessive rainfall. This is where you're going to have the best potential for that flooding, and that does include Kansas City, Springfield, Saint Louis. Notice those are some of the same cities that also had the potential for some of those severe thunderstorms. A lot of these places are looking at an additional one to three inches of rainfall, but keep in mind, that's on top of what they've already had for the last 24 to 36 hours.

DEAN: All right, Allison, thanks so much. We might be one step closer to knowing if we're actually alone in the universe. There could be a big -- there has been big questions about this. On a planet some 124 light years away, a team of astronomers say they have detected the most promising signs to date of a possible biosignature. This is signs of past or present life linked to biological activity.

And from there, we are joined by Bill Nye, the science guy. Everyone knows him. Bill, thanks so much for being here with us. And the -- the study authors urged caution here, saying living organisms have not been found. But when you read about this, it is really intriguing. How substantial are these findings? BILL NYE, CEO OF PLANETARY SOCIETY, "THE SCIENCE GUY": Well, they say that they're three times better than standard deviation. In the old mathematical expression, it's three sigma. So, three sigma is not five sigma. It's not an absolute certainty. But I have to say it is -- I'll give you that it's intriguing. But there's so many other molecules, so many other possibilities for things to happen in interstellar space that I'm not -- I'm not sold on this yet, but I am very, very interested.

DEAN: Yeah.

NYE: So, is it reasonable that on other worlds, this one would be a Hycean, a hydrogen ocean world orbiting about two and a half times the size of -- let's see. Two and a half times the radius that Earth orbits our sun, and it would always be covered with water all the time. So, is it reasonable that -- that plankton, that photosynthesizing microorganisms always emerge on every or -- or are likely to emerge on worlds in the cosmos? The answer is absolutely without question, maybe.

(LAUGHTER)

DEAN: So, it's very clear. Absolutely without question, maybe. Now, look, so, obviously, there's a lot more that we need to know, that we need to understand. How has the James Webb telescope really changed the game here? Because we're learning this because, I believe, of -- of the images it's sending back. Right?

NYE: Yeah. So, everybody understands the extraordinary nature of this thing. Hundred and twenty-four light years from here, we're able to get this telescope in outer space which -- in which everything is moving, we're all orbiting the sun, pointed at this object where we are able to resolve what we believe is a planet passing between us and the star, and then looking at the composition of the atmosphere of that planet, 124 light years away.

Everybody, if you could drive straight up on Earth for an hour at highway speed, you'd be in outer space. That's how these gals were able to fly into space last weekend.

DEAN: Right.

NYE: It -- it's not very far to outer space. But 124 light years is a very long way away, and you're -- the idea is that you're seeing the atmosphere illuminated by its star for a few moments. And they're looking at the spectrum of what wavelengths of light are absorbed. These researchers are inferring that there are these molecules that we only generally associate with life, living things. It's an extraordinary idea --

DEAN: Uh-hmm.

NYE: -- that we're doing this, everybody, for less than a cup of -- the cost of a cup of coffee per taxpayer. It's amazing.

DEAN: It is amazing. It is amazing. And now, obviously, they're going to want to keep doing this research. There have been -- President Trump has said he, you know, may be looking at NASA, that he may want to, in his words, eliminate waste in government. That could pertain to the agency.

[17:44:58]

What might that look like if there was roughly -- there have been reports of a 20% overall cut to the budget. What might that look like?

NYE: Well, there's two aspects to it. Twenty percent overall, 47% for -- for science. So, what NASA does that is extraordinary and is not a business is exploring these other worlds, these distant worlds.

Everybody understands -- I suppose many of the viewers, let's say maybe all of the viewers have a source of income. You have a job. You have some means of living. And all of a sudden, we're going to say we're going to cut that in half. It would affect everything in your life. All the same is true with NASA science.

And so, this is -- I -- we can't tell if this is a bargaining tactic or if it's a real thing. Now, I've been involved with the exploration of Mars, especially getting the resolution of pictures on Mars, getting those as good as possible for 23 years.

And I will say that the Office of Management and Budget is -- there's no love lost between NASA planetary science and the Office of Management and Budget. It has to do with -- when things go over budget, the Office of Management and Budget expresses concern, the OMB.

But the other thing is, how do you know how much it's going to cost? We're not sure. We've never done this before, and that sort of tension has been going on as long as I've been involved in this for the last couple decades. So, everybody, your tax dollars. And -- and if you are not in the U.S., you have a space agency in Canada, European space agency, Japanese aerospace exploration. You are in Australia, you are involved in these missions.

Also, there are rock samples in tubes this size, this is a replica, sitting on Mars, on Mars, and there's no plan to bring them back.

DEAN: Hmmm.

NYE: So, cutting NASA funding, right, it's just an example, everybody. There's all -- I was at Goddard Space Flight Center two weeks ago. I saw the Nancy Grace Roman Telescope. It's finished. It was brought in on budget, on schedule. It's ready to go. It was made with a surplus mirror, which had to be modified. But it's ready to go. And if this budget is cut, these things won't happen.

DEAN: Right.

NYE: Everybody, maybe -- maybe there's a plan to let another space agency carry this stuff on. Chinese National Space Administration, European Space Administration, some other space administration.

DEAN: Right. We are just going to have to see. All right. Bill Nye --

NYE: It's an extraordinary move, and so we will see what happens. But the potential discovery of life elsewhere will change this world.

DEAN: Wow. Indeed. That we know. All right, Bill Nye, thank you so much. Good to see you. We appreciate it.

NYE: Thank you.

DEAN: We will be right back.

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[17:50:00]

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DEAN: More than a million international students are enrolled in universities in the U.S. Now, the Trump administration's aggressive efforts to detain students and revoke visas is keeping a lot of them on edge.

The wave of deportations is expanding, from targeting those who protested against Israel's war on Hamas to unexplained changes in visa statuses, leaving many in limbo and anxious about their future.

Gloria Pazmino has that story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jayson Ma is months away from completing his mother's dying wish.

JAYSON MA, STUDENT, CARNEGIE MELLON UNIVERSITY: One of the major factors that I decided to come forward and talk about this is the fact that my mom is sick.

PAZMINO (voice-over): Ma, a Chinese national studying electrical computer engineering at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, is one of hundreds of international students across the U.S. whose visas or student status has been revoked in the past month.

MA: Really, it's my entire life at jeopardy.

PAZMINO (voice-over): He was given no other explanation and has yet to hear from any federal agency. Now, he's wondering if he'll have to leave the country, his school, and his unfinished degree behind.

MA: I have, you know, my suitcase half packed. It's a real possibility.

PAZMINO (voice-over): Indian and Chinese nationals make up the largest share of all international students enrolled in the U.S. India sent more than 331,000 students in the last academic year. China came in second with more than 277,000 students enrolled across U.S. colleges and universities. DR. FANTA AW, CEO, NAFSA: These students are the future ambassadors who are going to make significant impact.

PAZMINO (voice-over): Chinese students are under intense scrutiny as relations between Washington and Beijing deteriorate. China's Ministry of Education issued an advisory this month after the U.S. hit Chinese goods with new tariffs, telling students to -- quote -- "conduct safety risk assessments when choosing to study in relevant states in the U.S."

AW: I would say that the last few weeks have been, for many, unsettling is a term that we've heard from many of our colleagues, anxiety-producing on many levels.

PAZMINO (voice-over): Dr. Aw's group has been tracking cases of visa revocations in recent weeks and hearing from international students who have yet to see enforcement action but are considering leaving the country.

[17:55:05]

It would be an abrupt shift. International student enrollments were at an all-time record high last academic year. More than 1.1 million international students enrolled at American colleges and universities.

Trump's international student crackdown initially appeared to focus on student activists who participated in demonstrations against the Israel-Hamas war last year. But now, it appears to have shifted. Revocations are being driven by small infractions, traffic violations, and minor run ins with police.

JOSEPH MURPHY, ATTORNEY FOR JAYSON MA: There was a DUI, two years ago, but he was -- that -- that case was dismissed.

PAZMINO (voice-over): The State Department has declined multiple times to provide details about the criteria they are using to revoke student visas.

TAMMY BRUCE, SPOKESPERSON, DEPARTMENT OF STATE: The department revokes visas every day in order to secure our borders and to keep our community safe, and we'll continue to do so.

PAZMINO: Now, in speaking with students and academics, all of them pointed out that international students in many ways are easy targets. The federal government has a wealth of information about them, provided by the students seeking to maintain their status. The unexplained cancellations have left them feeling like they are being pushed out of the United States as part of an effort to make the country less diverse and less welcoming to people from certain nations.

Gloria Pazmino, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Gloria, thank you. Ahead, strong words from one of the Supreme Court's conservative justices over the high court's ruling that blocked President Trump's deportation flights over a wartime law.

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