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Vatican Celebrates Easter Mass As Pontiff Recovers; Ukraine Fighting Continues Despite Putin's Easter Truce; Possible Territorial Concessions in Peace Agreement; U.S. Vice President to Travel to India; Protesters Denounce President in Nationwide Rallies; Many in Autism Community say RFK Jr. Pushing Harmful Rhetoric. Aired 5-6 am ET

Aired April 20, 2025 - 05:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[05:00:37]

KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to all of you watching us here in the United States, Canada, and all around the world. I'm Kim Brunhuber. This is CNN Newsroom.

We're seeing live images from the Vatican as Christians around the world celebrate Easter with the Pope's planned message and whether the faithful can expect to see him.

Sirens in Kyiv despite an Easter truce called by Vladimir Putin. We'll have details on the latest efforts to enact a ceasefire.

Plus, there's growing outrage over Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s statements about autism will break down the Secretary's plans to find a so-called cure.

ANNOUNCER: Live from Atlanta, this is CNN Newsroom with Kim Brunhuber.

BRUNHUBER: It's the holiest date of the year for Christians, Easter Sunday, celebrating what believers say is Jesus' defeat of death through his resurrection after his crucifixion. Cardinals, priests and others around the altar in St. Peter's Square as Easter Sunday Mass is now being celebrated.

Now, there's no sign of Pope Francis, but he is expected to give a blessing later. Thousands of worshippers are hoping to see him. The ailing pontiff is recovering from double pneumonia. It sent him to hospital for 38 days, and now he's unable to speak in public for extended periods.

As a result, he's designated cardinals to preside over today's service. Still, the Vatican says the Pope is determined to be visible.

All right, joining me now live from Rome is CNN's Vatican Correspondent Christopher Lamb. So, we heard there from the Vatican saying that they're hoping the Pope will be visible. How are we actually hoping to see the Pope today?

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kim, the expectation is that the Pope will appear for the Urbi et Orbi Easter Sunday blessing. That's the blessing given to the city of Rome and to the world, a blessing that only the Pope can give, and it takes place on Easter Sunday. And the Vatican has said that the Pope will be present in the square, providing his health allows for it.

Now, of course, this has been a very different Easter for Pope Francis in previous years as Pope for him because, of course, he hasn't been able to lead the major services of Holy Week and Easter. He -- because of the double pneumonia, is unable to speak for long periods of time, but he has shown a determination to be present where he can. He went to a prison on the Thursday before Easter, greeting about 70 inmates there.

He, on Saturday evening, was in the basilica to pray briefly. And, as the Vatican have said, he does intend, if he can, to be out in St Peter's for this Easter Sunday blessing. Now, the last two Sundays, the Pope has made these surprise appearances.

The doctors have ordered the Pope to have a two-month convalescence after his discharge from hospital as he recovers from double pneumonia. And he has, on the whole, been resting and recovering. Nevertheless, he has been also determined to get on the move, to see people, to have some meetings and to resume some of his activities.

So we're awaiting now, as the Mass is continuing behind me in St Peter's, about halfway through the Easter Sunday morning Mass, we are waiting to see if the Pope does appear for that very important blessing that only he can give on Easter Sunday.

Kim?

BRUNHUBER: Yes, and Christopher, I understand this is the first time that the Pope hasn't presided over these ceremonies. Surely that must be a huge blow for him personally.

LAMB: Yes, it is difficult for the Pope not being able to lead the services. This is the first time since his election as Pope that he hasn't been able to preside at the Easter Sunday Mass. He's a very hands-on Pope. He wants to be involved as much as possible in leading the Church. But Francis is also a determined figure, some say a stubborn figure, and he does want to try and do where he can. He wants to try and make an appearance and he wants to be present amongst the people.

This is a Pope who doesn't want to be shut away. He likes to be amongst the people, greeting them, and he's trying his best as he recovers to do that. And, as I say, we are expecting him to make that appearance on Easter Sunday for that blessing.

[05:05:16]

BRUNHUBER: All right, we shall see. The world will be watching. Christopher Lamb, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Well, Ukraine was supposed to get a break from fighting on Easter. That's because Russian President Vladimir Putin declared a holiday ceasefire Saturday night. But instead of a truce, Ukrainians could hear emergency sirens ringing out in Kyiv on Saturday night as Ukraine said Russian attacks continued across the country.

President Zelenskyy says Ukraine has seen hundreds of artillery strikes since the ceasefire supposedly went into effect. He says Russia is trying to create the impression of a truce while attempting to advance in some areas. Some Ukrainians say they have never had much faith that Putin really meant to pause the conflict.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TETIANA SOLOVEI, KYIV RESIDENT (through translator): You know, this man is not capable to reach any sort of a deal. He does not know how to do that. He only knows how to get things done using force. He will never be up to reach an agreement the way we want it. He wants it the way he wants it. There will be no ceasefire, unfortunately.

ANDRII OLEFIRENKO, KYIV RESIDENT (through translator): I do not believe his statements, because Russia is a terrorist country, and they constantly lie to the international community. They hoax and drag time to become stronger, to start military actions again with new strength. That's what I think. It's sort of a game to drag time, in my opinion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: All right, let's go to London, where we're joined by CNN's Nada Bashir. So, Nada, what is the latest on this so-called ceasefire?

NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, the announcement of this ceasefire came by President Vladimir Putin just yesterday, was met with some skepticism. He said the decision was taken in light of humanitarian considerations, and also said that Ukraine's response would determine whether or not they were serious about pursuing a longer-term ceasefire peace deal between Russia and Ukraine. But as we saw there, that clearly hasn't been the case.

As we've heard from Ukrainian officials, including the Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, what we have seen since the announcement of this alleged temporary truce is continued fighting, according to Ukrainian military officials. They say they have recorded more than 300 shelling instances across Ukraine, so clearly not the truce that many would have hoped to have seen. And that has certainly dampened any sort of hopes that this temporary truce, as announced by the Russian President unilaterally, could then be expanded into a longer-lasting peace deal.

And of course, the timing of that announcement is key as well. This closely follows remarks from Trump administration officials, including the U.S. President himself, with regards to the progress of ongoing ceasefire negotiations. We know, of course, according to the Secretary of State, that a broad framework for a peace agreement has been presented to both sides by the United States. But there is growing frustration within the Trump administration over the lack of progress that we have seen with regards to movement from either side on these ceasefire negotiations. Secretary of State Marco Rubio warning that the U.S. could take a step back from those mediation efforts if we don't see any progress over the coming days. No clear clarification on what exactly that progress they want to see is or the deadline, perhaps, as to how quickly they want to see progress.

Those remarks were certainly echoed by the U.S. President himself, who told reporters in the Oval Office that he wants to see an enthusiasm to end the war from both sides and he hopes to see this soon. And while he did echo those warning remarks from Marco Rubio, he did say that he hoped it wouldn't come to that. It wouldn't come to the U.S. taking a step back from its mediation role.

But again, the timing is interesting given what is being put forward by the U.S. in this broad framework agreement between Russia and Ukraine. The U.S. has said that it is ready to recognize Russian control of occupied Crimea, which would be a huge win for the Russian President given Russia's illegal annexation of the territory back in 2014, and it would mark a significant concession for Ukraine, with officials there previously describing the notion as a non-starter. But we are expecting U.S. officials to continue discussions with their European counterparts over the coming days.

It will be interesting to see how this latest offer of a temporary truce from the Russian President is received by U.S. officials, but also crucially the fact that we continue to see, of course, Russian attacks on Ukrainian territory, and as Ukrainian military officials have described it, hundreds of shelling attacks over the last few hours since that temporary truce was announced. Of course, that is set to end at midnight local time on Monday.

BRUNHUBER: All right, appreciate you bringing us up to speed. Nana Bashir, thank you so much.

And on the last hour, I spoke with Inna Sovsun, a Ukrainian parliament member, and she told me Putin has announced a ceasefire that never really was.

[05:10:06]

Here she is.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

INNA SOVSUN, UKRAINIAN PARLIAMENT MEMBER: That peace never happened, because even here in Kyiv, we could hear the air raid alert last night, and it's morning here in Kyiv. And also, I reached out to the people I know on the front lines, and they all confirmed that the next hours after the ceasefire was supposed to take place, the Russians were shelling the Ukrainian positions with artillery.

And then by the morning, as you must have heard from the President Zelenskyy as well, they have started the assault attacks. So they never even pretended that the real ceasefire has actually taken place. They just made a big announcement and then continued things as they were.

And I think that does speak to the extent to which you can actually trust. And I think that the Russians are saying, I think they're just trying to make it look one way, but they don't even try to make an effort to actually change their own behavior.

BRUNHUBER: Looking now at the broader idea of a peace plan, we've been reporting that the Trump administration appears ready to recognize Russian control of occupied Crimea as part of the U.S. peace proposal, which, as you know, has always been a non-starter for Ukraine. So what's been the response there in Kyiv?

SOVSUN: Well, I think we're all at this point trying to keep it calm and to understand what is behind that idea. And we very much hope that this will not be the official position of the United States, because that will, of course, change everything, because that will mean that the United States does recognize the capture of the territory of one country by another country. And that, of course, undermines the whole global world order as it is as right now.

But we are negotiating, we are trying to explain why this is the very bad idea. And we very much hope that the position of the administration will change on that issue, because, of course, that is a no-go, as you said, for Ukrainians.

BRUNHUBER: But, I mean, the Trump administration has famously said Ukraine has no cards to play. So what would you say to those who would argue that it's unrealistic that Ukraine hold on to 100% of its territory as part of any deal?

SOVSUN: Well, look, we are realists here as well, and we are the ones who are suffering most of all from the war. And it's not like we want the war to continue. However, I do think there is a difference between effective control of the territory, and probably that is something that is not possible in the near future, at least not with the level of military support that we're getting as of right now.

But recognizing it legally as not part of Ukraine, giving up on those territories, giving up on the people who are living there, that's a completely different story. So I think there should be a differentiation made between recognizing that probably we cannot control them in the near future, again, not with the level of support we're getting. Things might change if Ukraine gets more weapons, then we actually can retake our own territory.

But recognizing that this is not part of our territory, then the question will be, OK, so if we recognize that, if the world recognizes that, then where will the world stop? What if next day Putin wakes up and says, oh, I also want Kharkiv region, and where is that red line? Where is the territory behind which I will say, OK, but that's a real no-go.

The real red line are the Ukrainian borders, as defined by international law, as recognized by other countries. And I think we should stand by that.

BRUNHUBER: Israel's Prime Minister is vowing to continue the war in Gaza as opposition grows at home. In a prerecorded video on Saturday, Benjamin Netanyahu pointed to Hamas' recent ceasefire rejection as a reason for continued bombardment.

Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): I have ordered the IDF to respond firmly and further increase the pressure on Hamas. We are in the war of rebirth, the war on seven fronts. This war has very heavy prices, because any such loss is a world in and of itself. But we, as people who desire life, have no choice but to continue fighting for our very existence until victory.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Netanyahu's address comes amid growing protests against the war. Recent polling shows many Israelis feel a hostage deal is a priority, even if it means ending the war. Late March poll by Israeli media indicates nearly 70% of Israelis support the idea. 21% said they're against ending the war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have still 59 hostages in Gaza, dead and alive. Many of them died because of the pressure, the military pressure. The military pressure is not bringing the opposite. The military pressure is killing them. So this war is just a war that had to end many, many, many months ago. There's no purpose. There are no achievements anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[05:15:10]

BRUNHUBER: An Israeli strike hit a displacement camp in southern Gaza on Saturday. One displaced man from Rafah staying at the camp says residents received warning before the attack. Now, this follows a recent string of Israeli airstrikes across Gaza. Palestinian authorities say at least 30 people were killed in strikes Friday. Nearly 1,800 Palestinians have been reportedly killed in Israeli strikes since fighting resumed on March 18th.

A White House official says the U.S. and Iran have made very good progress in their negotiations over Tehran's nuclear program. Both countries expressed optimism following a second round of indirect talks in Rome on Saturday. CNN's Betsy Klein has more from the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE PRODUCER: There's cautious optimism from the U.S. and Iran following very high stakes talks in Rome on Saturday between the U.S. led by special presidential envoy Steve Witkoff, Iran's Foreign Minister, and moderated by Oman's Foreign Minister. President Trump and his team really seeking a diplomatic solution here, and this is the second round of indirect talks. And I say indirect because Oman's Foreign Minister essentially shuttled messages back and forth between these two siloed sides.

But we did get a readout from a senior administration official who tells CNN, quote, "We made very good progress in our direct and indirect discussions. We agreed to meet again next week and are grateful to our Omani partners for facilitating these talks and to our Italian partners for hosting us." This after the Iranian Foreign Minister said that there was, quote, "movement forward" and agreement on some principles.

These talks come after there has been some mixed messaging from the Trump administration on whether or how much uranium it would allow Iran to continue to refine.

Steve Witkoff clarifying in a statement last week, Iran must stop and eliminate its nuclear enrichment and weaponization program. Key word there, of course, is eliminate. It also comes after a "New York Times" report that President Trump waved Israel off of attacking an Iranian nuclear facility to allow some more time and space for these negotiations to progress.

But Trump continues to say that if a deal isn't reached, there will be consequences.

DONALD TRUMP (R), U.S. PRESIDENT: I'm for stopping Iran very simply from having a nuclear weapon. They can't have a nuclear weapon. I want Iran to be great and prosperous and terrific with Iran. They can't have a nuclear weapon. And if they have a nuclear weapon, you'll all be very unhappy. You'll be very unhappy because your life -- your life -- your life will be in great danger.

KLEIN: Now, we expect a third round of talks to take place next Saturday in Oman. We also expect technical discussions with experts to get underway on Wednesday. But so many questions about if and whether a deal can be reached and how it could be different from that 2015 Obama-era deal that Trump pulled out of back in 2018.

Betsy Klein, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: All right, so look on Vatican officials tell U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance what they think of the White House's immigration policy. And after his Vatican trip, the Vice President is heading to India and how Donald Trump's trade war could complicate that visit.

And the top U.S. health official is facing backlash from many in the autism community. We'll show you what he said later in the program. Stay with us.

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[05:22:30]

BRUNHUBER: U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance is traveling overseas this weekend. He visited the Vatican with his family on Saturday. Vance didn't meet with Pope Francis, but he did meet with top Vatican officials. This was the first in-person meeting between the Vatican and the second Trump administration. The Vatican says there was, quote, "an exchange of opinions over Donald Trump's policies toward refugees, migrants, and prisoners."

In February, Pope Francis publicly criticized White House immigration policies.

And J.D. Vance's next stop is India, where he'll meet with Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

Karishma Mehrotra is the South Asia Correspondent for "The Washington Post," and she joins me now from Delhi.

Thank you so much for being here with us. So broadly speaking, what is the purpose of the trip from a U.S. point of view? What's the Trump administration hoping to get out of this?

KARISHMA MEHROTRA, SOUTH ASIA CORRESPONDENT, WASHINGTON POST: Yeah, I think it's clear the Trump administration has sort of shifted priorities with the India-U.S. relationship from the Biden administration. I think top of the ticket would be trade. They're negotiating a bilateral trade agreement as we speak. Defense, the U.S. has been particularly adamant that India buy more defense and have more defense purchases from the U.S. And nuclear energy is also a topic of conversation between the two because they want to increase their engagement over civilian nuclear energy as well.

So I would say these three are the main things that the Trump administration will be focusing on.

BRUNHUBER: All right, India has been hit by tariffs. How is that going to affect these talks?

MEHROTRA: You know, I think India seems to be presenting a very confident posture in the relationship. The tariffs, the initial tariffs, reciprocal tariffs that were announced that were then withdrawn actually had India at a lower tariff bracket than some of its other competitors, although still even a 10% tariff can hit India quite strongly. But because of the bilateral talks that are continuing over a potential trade agreement, India is sort of presenting a very confident posture in the relationship and presenting a very proactive compliance with the Trump administration as well, a willingness to perhaps open up a lot of its market for the Trump administration.

BRUNHUBER: Is some of that confidence because the relations between Modi and Trump seem very strong, unlike, you know, Trump's relationships with many leaders broadly internationally?

[05:25:05]

MEHROTRA: Yeah, I think definitely the two personalities have a big role to play here. I also think there's certain frictions that did exist in the Biden administration with the India relationship that didn't overspill and overtake the relationship, but it did. It now has relatively disappeared. So things like pending indictments that have been charged against both Indian government officials, as well as a billionaire tycoon in India, Gautam Adani.

Also, India's relationship with Russia used to be quite a sensitive and thorny topic between the two countries, and that seems to not matter as much anymore. So from an India perspective, there's some feeling that some of the things that used to frustrate them in the relationship have disappeared, although there's still cautiousness around trade and how that could impact India. But yes, there is a role to be played also of the personalities involved.

BRUNHUBER: Yeah. You talk about frictions. I mean, what about the crackdown on foreign students? I mean, the U.S. has revoked nearly 1,500 student visas. Is that likely to be a major issue?

MEHROTRA: You know, interestingly, at least publicly, the Modi administration has been very silent and diplomatic about this issue. If you remember when there were deportation flights happening, one of the deportation flights back to India of citizens back to India, undocumented immigrants, saw Indians shackled, which did create quite a bit of domestic backlash at that time, but that seems to have dissipated.

Now with another immigration issue, students, you don't necessarily see that domestic backlash yet in the country. But I think the long- term impacts and ramifications of what the administration is doing to Indian students will impact the relationship.

Now, whether or not he brings that up in the conversation with Vance will have to be seen. But publicly, the Modi administration has been trying to keep that issue very, very quiet in the country.

BRUNHUBER: Yeah, we only have a minute left. But I did want to ask you this, because there had been a sense during Trump's first term that the close relationship with the U.S. wasn't necessarily paying off for India, that India might be better off pivoting towards its rival China. But given Trump's volatility, I mean, any -- any sense that Modi is still kind of hedging his bets here?

MEHROTRA: Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't go so far as India necessarily becoming very close to its rival China, even in the first term. What we see here is India sort of broadening its diplomatic options, because they do remember the trade deal that ultimately didn't lead anywhere, but there was a trade deal between U.S. and China in the first term. And the Indians are keenly aware of that and are using this moment as an opportunity to sort of respond more warmly to Chinese overtures and sort of stabilize the relationship.

But I wouldn't go so far as saying that it's changing fundamentally the adversarial positions between India and China. Although, of course, there has been some sort of shift since the middle of last year. BRUNHUBER: All right, interesting to see what comes of this meeting. Karishma Mehrotra, thank you so much for speaking with us. Really appreciate it.

MEHROTRA: Thank you so much for having me.

BRUNHUBER: Well, Trump administration lawyers made new requests of the Supreme Court Saturday asking the justices about laws they could use to deport a group of Venezuelan migrants. We'll have details on that.

Plus, Americans took to the streets in dozens of towns and cities on Saturday to vent their anger at the president and his policies. We'll have some highlights of that after the break. Please stay with us.

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[05:32:00]

BRUNHUBER: Welcome back to CNN Newsroom. I'm Kim Brunhuber in Atlanta. Let's check today's top stories.

It is Easter at the Vatican, and thousands of worshippers are at St. Peter's Square to celebrate Easter mass. They're hoping to catch a glimpse of the ailing Pope Francis. It's expected he'll deliver his traditional blessing to the city and the world.

Ukraine's president says Russia has already broken its Easter ceasefire hundreds of times. He says Ukraine has been taking fire from artillery and drones, while Russia tried to push ahead with ground attacks in some areas. Russian President Vladimir Putin declared a holiday ceasefire Saturday night.

The U.S. and Iran are moving forward with negotiations over Tehran's nuclear program. Both countries expressed optimism following a second round of indirect talks in Rome on Saturday. A White House official says they made very good progress and agreed to meet again next weekend.

The Trump administration is still trying to deport a group of Venezuelans detained in Texas despite the Supreme Court's late-night ruling yesterday that temporarily blocked their deportation under the Alien Enemies Act. On Saturday, administration lawyers asked the court for authority to deport the group under other laws while litigation proceeds over the controversial 18th Century Act.

CNN's Julia Benbrook has more on the legal wrangling.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JULIA BENBROOK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In an overnight order issued this weekend, the Supreme Court paused the use of the Alien Enemies Act to deport a group of immigrants in Texas who said that the Trump administration was working to quickly remove them from the United States.

Attorneys for the Venezuelan migrants in the case filed an emergency appeal to the high court and said that this group was facing an immediate threat of deportation and had not had sufficient time to challenge those deportations.

We did reach out to the White House for a response to the Supreme Court's order and White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt drew attention to the lawsuits in her statement saying in part, quote, "We are confident in the lawfulness of the administration's actions and in ultimately prevailing against an onslaught of meritless litigation brought by radical activists who care more about the rights of terrorist aliens than those of the American people."

Now in the rare overnight Supreme Court order handed down around 1 a.m. Saturday, the court wrote, quote, "The government is directed not to remove any member of the putative class of detainees from the United States until further order of this court."

Now the order drew dissents from conservative justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito. At the center of all of this, the Alien Enemies Act, an 18th century law that was used just about a month ago to deport hundreds of alleged Venezuelan gang members to El Salvador and this is not the first time that Trump's use of the authority has landed before the Supreme Court. In fact, just last week, the court ruled that Trump could use the act but that migrants that were subject to being removed by the act should receive notice and then should have an opportunity to have their removal reviewed in court.

[05:35:10]

Reporting in Washington, I'm Julia Benbrook.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: Demonstrators rallied Saturday in dozens of cities across the United States to protest President Donald Trump and his policies. In Washington, D.C., people gathered at the White House but Trump was at his golf club in Virginia. Marchers were also in the city streets carrying signs condemning the administration's immigration crackdown, assault on civil liberties and the gutting of U.S. agencies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PROTESTER: We are here to say stop, stop cuts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Organizers say protests were held in more than 80 cities and towns across the country. The National Day of Action also included food drives and donation campaigns to help those impacted by Trump's policies.

And Georgia's capital was one of the many cities that saw demonstrations on Saturday. Marchers gathered in Atlanta's Midtown neighborhood. CNN's Rafael Romo was there and has this report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: People are chanting things like regulate guns, not women, no mass deportations, America has no kings, defend our constitution, save the CDC and resist fascism and white supremacy.

We're standing at the corner of 10th Street and Piedmont Avenue here in Atlanta. This is a protest that started around noon. It's still going on. These people earlier today started marching north here in the Midtown neighborhood towards Piedmont Park, the historic Piedmont Park. They went as far north as 14th Street where the Peace Monument is located.

They say they want to put an end to some of the things that they're seeing from the Trump administration. They were very specific that they do not agree with the deportation of Kimar Abrego Garcia and they say that he should be brought back to this country. A lot of the protesters here are expressing feelings of friendship, feelings of camaraderie, as you have seen.

And so far, they have not blocked any streets. They have not blocked any of the sidewalks. We earlier saw Atlanta police come to this location, but only to keep an eye on things because it has been peaceful.

One thing I have to say, though, is that this protest is considerably smaller than what we saw here a couple of weeks ago when thousands upon thousands of people marched from this area here near Piedmont Park, several miles to the Georgia State Capitol. But they say this is only the beginning. They're talking about resisting the current government and they say they are here to stay.

Again, something that has been mirrored in other cities. There was a protest today also in Washington, D.C. and other places around the country.

Rafael Romo, we'll see you in Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: Thousands of people came together in London on Saturday demanding legal recognition of transgender women as women.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PROTESTERS: Trans rights now! Trans rights now!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: This week, the British Supreme Court ruled that the legal definition of a woman is based on biological sex at birth. The case was about protecting trans women from discrimination. Transgender rights activists say the ruling will lead to more discrimination and even violence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) IAN BUCHAN, PROTESTER: Trans people simply just want to go about their lives and live and exist and that is their right. There's such a tiny proportion of the population today that it's extraordinary that we've let this culture war develop to the point where they're allowed to be vilified.

JORDAN DYE, PROTESTER: Things continue the way they are. People are going to get hurt. And it's not just trans people. It's going to just stem until nobody has rights anymore because if you take away the rights of one minority, then what's to stop you from taking the rights away from everyone?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Anti-transgender activists cheered the ruling claiming it protects women's rights.

All right, coming up just ahead, what the U.S. health and human services sector is saying about autism that has experts and families alike up in arms.

That's coming up next. Please do stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:42:33]

BRUNHUBER: Many in the autism community say Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is pushing harmful and regressive rhetoric. In his first news conference as the top U.S. health official, Kennedy referred to the rising rate of autism as an individual tragedy and catastrophic. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: This is a preventable disease. We know it's an environmental exposure. These are kids who will never pay taxes, they'll never hold a job, they'll never play baseball, they'll never write a poem, they'll never go out on a date. Many of them will never use a toilet unassisted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Experts have linked the increase in autism rates to better understanding of the condition, and now researchers are criticizing Kennedy's narrow description of the disorder, which affects people differently. The Health and Human Services Secretary later sought to, in his words, set the record straight.

Here he is again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNEDY: There are many kids with autism who are doing well. They're holding down jobs, they're getting paychecks, they're living independently. But I was specifically referring to that 25%, the group that is nonverbal. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Helen Tager-Flusberg is a Professor with Boston University as Director of CARE, the Center for Autism Research Excellence. She oversees all the main activities of their research programs, and she joins us now from Boston.

Really great to get your expertise here on this. So just to start on his characterization of people with autism. So he says he was speaking specifically of a subset of autistic people who are nonverbal. Do you accept his clarification?

HELEN TAGER-FLUSBERG, PROFESSOR, BOSTON UNIVERSITY: Oh, I certainly do. And I was very pleased to hear him understand now that autism is a very heterogeneous condition. So his backpedaling was well taken.

At the same time, let me say that even those 25% who are minimally verbal, who have far greater behavior challenges, are not always a burden, and they are always a joy to their families and well-loved and well-cared for. So his characterization of these people as a tragedy is so harmful to the community.

BRUNHUBER: Yeah, it's important to point that out. More broadly though, he spoke of autism as an epidemic. So I want to play the response from the CEO of the Autism Society of America who spoke to CNN.

[05:45:10]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER BANKS, CEO, AUTISM SOCIETY OF AMERICA: Creates a sense of fear and mistrust within the community. It is not a contagion. It is not something that one gets like they would in an epidemic like tuberculosis. So that is a misleading thing from the very beginning, right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: So we do speak of other things that aren't diseases as epidemics, sort of metaphorically, you know, the opioid epidemic, for instance. So is that actually problematic when the numbers are rising?

TAGER-FLUSBERG: I think it is because that kind of charged language obscures the reality of the situation. So I think these metaphors in cases, in instances like autism are not the least bit helpful. So I would say, let's stay away from charged language and focus on the fact that the rates have been steadily rising over the last three decades.

And people within the scientific and the clinical community understand this rise extremely well. What it does co-occur with is not changes in environmental exposures of some mysterious nature, but the availability of screening services, diagnosis, better education programs, and therapies for people on the spectrum. And as those increase, we see more and more individuals being diagnosed with autism. BRUNHUBER: Yeah, and you said something important there that I want to sort of dive into because he asserted that autism is preventable. And this week he directed the National Institutes of Health to investigate what he called environmental exposures that he claimed could be contributing to that rise in diagnoses. So for the record, what does the science say?

TAGER-FLUSBERG: The science says that autism is largely caused by genetics. We know that genetics contributes -- I don't know, I hate to put numbers on things, but let's say about 80%. This is by far the most significant factor. There are non-genetic factors that we know about and some that, yes, indeed, we'll still discover, but they are likely to be contributing to autism by interacting against a specific genetic background.

BRUNHUBER: So not everything then is known about autism and how, you know, it occurs. I suppose from one point of view it could be good if the causes of autism are investigated. It is underfunded, the research is needed, but from our reporting, many top researchers haven't been contacted or consulted in this effort to get at the causes of this. So what concerns do you have about the direction and reliability of this research under this secretary?

TAGER-FLUSBERG: Well, I am in touch with a large swath of the autism science community. I don't know a single person who has been contacted and we are concerned about who is involved in this study. And what's more important, we have no details at all about the design of the study, the databases that are going to be used.

We really have no (technical difficulty), and in this day and age, replicable and reliable research, we want the protocols, the design of the study to be very open and to make it available to the scientific community, which it has not been done yet.

BRUNHUBER: Listen, we'll have to leave it there, but I really appreciate you taking the time on this very important topic. Helen Tager-Flusberg. Thank you so much.

TAGER-FLUSBERG: Thank you.

BRUNHUBER: Christians around the world are celebrating Easter Sunday. Still to come, we'll have a live look at the crowds gathered in Vatican City as they mark the church's holiest day of the year. Stay with us.

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[05:53:30]

BRUNHUBER: Well, it is Easter Sunday and the Vatican is celebrating the holiest day on the Christian calendar with a mass in St. Peter's Square. You're seeing live pictures of that right now. Priests have just fanned out into the crowd to offer communion. Pope Francis hasn't yet appeared at the ceremony, but the Vatican says he had a meeting with U.S. Vice President, J.D. Vance, who's on a visit. He is expected to offer his traditional blessing to the city and the world anytime now. As of course, the Pope, he continues to recover from a battle with double pneumonia. Delegated cardinals have been leading this year's ceremony.

Well, despite the harsh realities of life along the front lines in Ukraine and their conflict with Russia, many Ukrainians aren't letting that affect their Easter celebrations. CNN's Ben Hunte has more.

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BEN HUNTE, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): A bakery in the Ukrainian city of Sumy in shambles, hit by a Russian drone strike on Good Friday as Ukrainian Easter cakes were being prepared. The cake's still sitting on trays covered in dust. One person was killed in the attack.

In Ukraine, no traditions are spared from the war. More than three years after Russia invaded Ukraine, the country's Christian community is once again marking the Easter holiday.

Russia declaring a 30-hour Easter ceasefire this weekend. Sirens sounding in Kyiv soon after the announcement on Saturday. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy calling it another attempt by Putin to play with human lives. And despite U.S. efforts to broker a peace deal, Russian attacks have only intensified in recent weeks, with civilians paying a particularly high price.

[05:55:14]

But that's not deterring some Ukrainians from continuing their customs. In Bucha, three years after Russia's brutal occupation, another batch of Easter cakes is in the oven. Most of the men who once worked here got drafted, this woman says.

OLHA BURKIVSKA, SON WAS DRAFTED: When my son got drafted to Ukraine's armed forces, he said, mom, you're the boss now. The bakery must remain operational. And it's great that the house is working. People like our bread. We bake from our hearts.

HUNTE: The cakes are also a welcome comfort to some people in the Russian-occupied region of Luhansk in Ukraine, who either remained in their homes or have returned to them. Volunteers delivered boxes of the breads to residents who say they hope this holiday will be their last one at war.

VIKTOR BOGACH, LUHANSK RESIDENT (through translator): We can't wait for a truce. We don't just hope for it. We can't wait for it. We wait for it like for manna from heaven. We are so tired of this.

HUNTE: One Ukrainian brigade says it recently dropped the Easter treats to soldiers in the field by boxing them up and delivering them using a drone. A small taste of home to try to blunt the bitterness of this war.

Ben Hunte, CNN.

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BRUNHUBER: I hope everybody has a happy Easter out there. That wraps this hour of CNN Newsroom. I'm Kim Brunhuber.

For viewers in North America, CNN This Morning is next. For the rest of the world, it's POV.

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