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Pope Francis Has Died On Easter Monday Aged 88. Aired 4-5a ET
Aired April 21, 2025 - 04:00 ET
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KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And we have breaking news into CNN. Pope Francis has died. He was the 266th head of the Roman Catholic Church. He was 88 years old. And Pope Francis, he gave the traditional Easter blessing on Sunday. He appeared from the balcony of St. Peter's Basilica in front of delighted crowds after he had that brief meeting with the U.S. Vice President, J.D. Vance in what marked what was his highest profile appearance yet since he was discharged from the hospital.
But this just in, we have learned that the pontiff has passed away. Pope Francis did not lead the main Holy Week and Easter services of this last week he had made brief appearances over Easter weekend, including, you know, he spent 30 minutes at a prison in Rome on Thursday. He made a visit to St. Peter's Basilica on Saturday evening.
Francis he had spent some 38 days in hospital with that double pneumonia. He came close to death. He was unable to speak for long periods during respiratory difficulties. He was undergoing physiotherapy to regain his voice. He had made this appearance during Easter Sunday. But now this news just coming in that Pope Francis has passed away at age 88. CNN's Vatican correspondent Christopher Lamb takes a look back at the Pope's life and his legacy.
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CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A simple good evening from the newly elected Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio from Argentina, the first Pope ever from the Americas. His choice of the name Francis after the saint known for his poverty and love of nature had never been used before by a Pope set the tone for a pontificate marked by attention to the poor and a simple way of life.
This pope's home would no longer be the historic apartments, but a simple set of rooms in a guest house on the Vatican grounds. Elaborate papal robes and jewelery remained in the closet as Francis wore only his white cassock, black orthopaedic shoes with a simple pectoral cross. And when he needed his glasses fixed, he hopped in a car and went himself to the optician in Rome.
[04:05:00]
A down to earth style learned on the streets of Buenos Aires. The one time night club bouncer took public transportation and always remained a fan of Argentina's San Lorenzo soccer team. His simple words too had a way of getting to the heart of divisive issues.
POPE FRANCIS, LEADER OF ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH (through translator): If a person is gay and accepts the Lord and has goodwill, well, who am I to judge?
LAMB (voice-over): It didn't change the Catholic Church's opposition to gay marriage, but convinced many that he was a pope open to change. He was a champion of the environment, issuing an encyclical, the highest papal teaching document, to warn of the dangers of global warming and a throwaway consumer culture in the west that damages our climate and the livelihood of the poor.
POPE FRANCIS (through translator): The misuse and destruction of the environment are also accompanied by a relentless process of exclusion. In effect, his selfish and boundless thirst for power and material prosperity leads both to the misuse of available natural resources and to the exclusion of the weak.
LAMB (voice-over): He drove home the point, travelling to the United States, home of gas guzzling SUVs in a tiny Fiat, equally at home with the poor and powerful. On the lawn of the White House, he made a plea for immigrants.
POPE FRANCIS: As the son of an immigrant family, I'm happy to be a guest in this country, which was largely built by such families.
LAMB (voice-over): And at a time marked by a dramatic refugee crisis in Europe, France has tirelessly called on governments and people to not close their eyes or their borders. And he walked his talk bringing back 12 Syrian refugees on his plane following a trip to the Greek island of Lesbos.
In the difficult terrain of the Holy Land, Pope Francis prayed at the wall dividing Palestinian West Bank from Jerusalem and embraced his Jewish friends in front of the Wailing Wall. The Pope focused much of his attention to those on the peripheries, as he called it. The outsiders excluded from society.
POPE FRANCIS (through translator): hungry, the thirsty, the stranger, the naked, the sick, those in prison.
LAMB (voice-over): He sought to support the churches on those peripheries and far from Rome. The longest foreign trip of his pontificate saw him travel across Southeast Asia and the Pacific, highlighting the importance of this region for the future of the Catholic Church.
Going to those on the margins was something Francis himself practiced during many moments of his pontificate. Embracing the disabled, washing the feet of prisoners, installing shower rooms for the homeless around the Vatican.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): One of his characteristics, a characteristic of his entire life, was humility.
LAMB (voice-over): A humility that attracted the world with politicians and stars lining up to meet him at the Vatican. He was not so popular at times inside the Vatican and among powerful Catholic groups in the United States.
There was a backlash from conservatives upset about his insistence that church teaching must develop along with his biting critiques of clerical culture. His financial reforms, seeking greater transparency, faced significant difficulties. And the scandal of sex abuse continuing to be the Catholic Church's biggest struggle.
In the case of Chile, Francis admitted in a letter that he too was part of the problem when every bishop in the country offered to resign in the wake of sexual abuse scandals there.
Also accused of being part of the problem by his ex-ambassador to the United States, who claimed he told Francis about sexual abuse allegations against former Washington D.C. Cardinal Theodore McCarrick five years before. And Francis allowed him to continue serving.
POPE FRANCIS (through translator): I will not say one more word on this.
LAMB (voice-over): Francis eventually defrocked the U.S. cardinal and held an unprecedented global meeting of bishops to address the issue. A Vatican investigation later called into question the claims made by the former ambassador, who was then barred from receiving communion and put into exile by the church after he rejected the authority of the pope and some key Catholic teachings.
Nevertheless, questions remained about Francis; handling of the abuse crisis.
JOHN ALLEN, EDITOR, CRUX: There is no doubt that the child sexual abuse scandals are the central stain on his legacy. I mean, over and over again, Pope Francis said the right things. He met with victims. He expressed heartfelt sorrow. He expressed resolve to get this right. But you know, most critics, many victims would say that wasn't match the policy follow through.
LAMB (voice-over): When the coronavirus pandemic hit in 2020, the image of the pope blessing the world from an empty St. Peter's Square became a symbol for that desolate time. Francis urged nations to share their vaccines with poorer countries and vaccinated hundreds of homeless and underprivileged at the Vatican.
[04:10:07]
The following year, during an historic trip to Iraq, the first pope ever to visit the country, Francis stood on top of the rubble in Mosul, once an ISIS stronghold, and furthered his outreach to the Muslim world by an unprecedented meeting with top Shia Muslim cleric, the reclusive Grand Ayatollah Ali Al Sistani.
From the beginning of the war in Ukraine in 2022, France was an outspoken advocate for peace. He avoided outright condemnation of Vladimir Putin, but publicly appealed to the Russian president, begging him to stop for the love of his people, the pope said.
Francis spoke several times by phone with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy during 2022, asking him to be open to serious peace proposals before the pair met face to face at the Vatican in May of 2023 and October 2024. He made similar appeals for peace during the conflict in the Middle East, saying that the Israel-Hamas war had descended into terrorism. He insisted that war is always a defeat and said self-defense that is not proportional is immoral.
France's most important message was one of fraternity, that we are all brothers and sisters, despite our differences. Take care of the earth and each other, he said. And don't forget to pray for me.
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POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Polo Sandoval in New York following the breaking news where the Vatican now confirming the death of Pope Francis at 88. For the latest now, let's go to CNN Vatican correspondent Christopher Lamb joining us live with more.
Christopher, you just laid out such a legacy right now in that piece. I'm curious if you could just bring our viewers up to speed about what we know.
LAMB: Well, Polo, were told this morning that there would be a brief broadcast from the Santa Marta, the residence of Pope Francis. And then a few moments later, Cardinal Kevin Farrell, who is the Karmalengo, the man in charge with overseeing the protocols around the death of the pope, announced that Pope Francis had died at 7:35 a.m. local time this morning.
He was also joined by Cardinal Pietro Parolin and Archbishop Pena Parra, the two senior Vatican officials. They made that announcement from the Santa Marta residents. Now yesterday, Pope Francis was out in the crowds of St. Peter's greeting people. He made an effort to get onto the balcony to give the Easter Sunday blessing. Of course, he hasn't been well enough to lead services in the way that he would normally.
But it was characteristic of Pope Francis to come out into the square. St. Peter's clearly not feeling himself. I mean, there were those of us who followed it closely who saw him yesterday and did feel afterwards that he was not in a good condition in terms of he's normally greeting the crowds, he's normally very engaged, he's a Pope who loves to be amongst the people.
But yesterday he seemed less engaged. He's clearly been through. He was going through the, you know, very profound health crisis. He had pneumonia in both of his lungs. He was in hospital for 38 days. He almost died on two occasions. But he came through that and was recovering in the Vatican. But obviously it was very difficult for him health wise. And he showed, though, a determination to keep going until the very end. There was speculation he might resign, but he never did that.
He decided he would go on right into the end. I think that's also the ethic and person of Francis, is to serve right until the last moment. He was someone who gave himself totally to the role of Pope. He was a Pope who wanted to be amongst the people to serve. He wanted the Catholic Church to do more, to go out to the margins of society, to serve migrants and refugees, the poorest.
He said after his election, I want a poor church for the poor. And that was the kind of, you know, that was his kind of manifesto from the very beginning, that he wanted a church that was willing to go out and pitch its tent amongst the most suffering of people, the people who were suffering the most. He wanted a church amongst the people and a church faith focused on service and humility.
Now, you know, people often look at the Vatican and they look at the Catholic Church and they see these extraordinary basilicas and cathedrals and they see incredible history and they see magnificent liturgies and vestments. But Pope Francis, taking the name of Saint Francis of Assisi, wanted a church that was focused on simplicity, on the core values of the Christian message.
[04:15:09]
Of course, St. Francis of Assisi was a famous saint who focused on poverty, care for creation, simplicity, humility. And this is what Pope Francis sought to bring to the church during his just over 12- year papacy. And Francis as pope, sought to embody those values of St. Francis of Assisi.
I mentioned the environment earlier, and the Pope, of course, wrote a very important encyclical about protecting the planet and protecting the environment, protecting the natural world. It was a landmark encyclical that really shifted official Catholic teaching on the topic.
And that was something that he raised during his time in his visit to the United States in 2015, when he went to the lawn of the White House and spoke and met with President Obama, when he addressed both houses, where he emphasized that importance of protection of the environment, but also migration migrants was a key concern for Pope Francis.
And just before he went out onto the balconiesta, he met with Vice President J.D. Vance. And of course, Pope Francis has been very critical, had been very critical of the Trump administration immigration policy. So basically, with Francis, it was a question of he wanted to serve right until the end. And I think we've seen that with, you know, yesterday he was out on the square on Easter Sunday, the high point of the Church's calendar.
And then today we have this news that really has come as quite a shock because we had been told by the Vatican the Pope was slowly improving. Although, of course, as I said, those of us who followed Francis closely did notice that he did not seem as engaged yesterday as he normally would. He seemed to be. To be struggling, but this was a mark of this Pope that he wanted to serve right until the very end. Polo.
SANDOVAL: Christopher, I'm curious if you could speak to the sudden nature of the Holy Father's death here. A reminder to viewers that were just weeks into his prescribed two months of rest. The doctors had recommended for the Holy Father to limit his public appearances.
And as you made clear, despite that, he was determined to keep that public presence as much as he possibly and physically could. So if you could just speak to the sudden nature of the news that now Catholics around the world are waking up to the day after the Easter weekend.
LAMB: Yes, well, I think most people will know that Francis had been hospitalized with pneumonia in both of his lungs, that he had almost died on two occasions, that it had been a very serious health crisis, and that basically Francis general health wasn't in the best of condition. I mean, he's 88 years old, and he's had other health challenges. He's largely been -- was largely confined to a wheelchair. He had other hospitalizations for respiratory problems. He's had a history of those respiratory infections, and he had part of right lung removed as a young man, and so he was vulnerable to these bronchial infections.
I mean, the bottom line is that the Pope effectively avoided death narrowly. On two occasions, in February and March, he came out of the hospital. He determined to try and recover, but clearly it was going to be a very difficult task for him to do that because of someone of his age and his general health condition. There was always the possibility that he wouldn't be able to make that physical recovery.
And also another thing about Francis is that he wasn't going to reduce his desire to be amongst people was reduced. His activities shut himself away so that he could perhaps cling on for another two or three more months or whatever it might be. He wanted to give himself totally to the role as much as he possibly could. And in many ways, you know, I saw Francis actually just before he went into hospital, and it was clear then he wasn't well. He was struggling to breathe.
He was basically giving himself totally to the work and the job, the ministry.
[04:20:00] And in that respect, his health was sacrificed in the service of the church that he wished to perform. And I think that's why, although it's a shock this morning to hear this news, it's not totally unexpected given what the Pope has been through health wise in recent months and years.
SANDOVAL: Catholics will no doubt reflect on the timing of the Pope's passing, as you mentioned, down to the very last moment. A life of service approaching now, 10:20 in the morning at Vatican City. For viewers just joining us, we are following breaking news out of the Vatican with Vatican officials confirming the death of Pope Francis, dead at 88.
On the phone joining us right now is Vatican correspondent Christopher Lamb bringing us up to speed on not just the legacy of the first pope from the Americas, but also on what we know about the timing of all of this and how Vatican officials confirmed this and announced this. Christopher, you told us a little bit more about Pope Francis and what and his life.
LAMB: I'm curious if we can now for a moment take a look at what we know about when officials learned this, the process of getting this confirmed and then sharing the news to the world.
Well, the process is that the Cardinal Camerlengo, who is someone called Cardinal Kevin Farrell, who is a Irish born but U.S. -- naturalized U.S. citizen who works at a high position in the Vatican, his job is to ascertain that the Pope has died. And then it is his job to announce that to the world and to the fellow, to his fellow cardinals.
And the Vatican's obviously decided to do that through the modern means of basically a live YouTube broadcast. And so that will have been, I would have thought, a simple process in that the Pope is in the Casa Santa Marta, he is receiving or had been receiving round the clock medical care and there's a medical team there.
So when it was clear that the Pope had passed, it would have been both the Vatican's medical official or officials and the cardinal Kevin Farrell, who would be ascertain the death. And then they will be obviously they've announced that to the world.
And of course it's also true that there will be there are certain prayers that have followed that when the Pope dies. So he -- the Cardinal Kevin Farrell will lead a service and then the Pope's body is to be placed in the chapel of the Santa Marta. And we obviously will follow those developments as they come in. But there is a formal protocol for when a pope dies. And it is Cardinal Farrell who is the one who oversees that.
And obviously today he announced it with the two most senior Vatican officials, Cardinal Parolin and Archbishop Pena Parra of the Vatican, Secretary of State, effectively the sort of heads of government of the Vatican, if you like.
I'm just walking now into St. Peter's Square. There's been -- there's obviously big numbers here. It's a jubilee year in Rome, which is a year of pilgrimage from people visiting Rome to take part in the jubilee spiritual celebrations. And you get the sense that actually the news hasn't come through yet for most people. I imagine we will be getting some notification formally in terms of the ringing of bells, which we haven't had yet.
But yes, the process is that Cardinal Kevin Farrell, the Carmelengo of the Vatican, the Roman Curia, he has ascertained that the Pope has died with the Vatican medical team and has made that announcement this morning. Rome time.
SANDOVAL: Christopher, as you arrive there in the Vatican, if you could also tell us a little bit more about what 24 hours have been like -- had been like for Pope Francis, celebrating Easter, making those rare appearances, meeting with officials, meeting with us. Vice President J.D. Vance, tell us a little bit more about that.
LAMB: Yes, yes. So the last few days of Francis were basically his participation as much as he could in the celebration of Holy Week and Easter, the high point of the Christian calendar.
[04:25:03]
So on the Thursday before Easter Sunday, he went to a prison in Rome where he spent half an hour with prisoners. That's been a very important part of his papacy is to his ministry to prisoners, to the outcasts, to the outsiders. And then on Saturday, the Saturday before Easter Sunday, he was briefly in the basilica, St. Peter's Basilica, to pray before the Easter vigil.
And then on Sunday morning, Easter Sunday morning, he met briefly with Vice President J.D. Vance, who is the last foreign civic dignitary to have met with Pope Francis. And then he went to the balcony of St. Peter's, the same balcony where he was announced to the world as Pope Francis, or the same balcony that he appeared to the world as Pope Francis for that first time.
And he did -- they offered the Easter blessing. And he then went around the square for a last time in the popemobile, where he was greeted by thousands, tens of thousands of pilgrims and people in Rome for Easter Sunday.
So it is quite extraordinary that after the highest point of the Church's liturgical year, at the highest point, the Pope then passes on. And it's, I suppose, in some ways quite fitting because, of course, the Easter message is all about the death and new life. And Pope Francis has -- in this extremely poignant period where Christians remember the death, the suffering, death and resurrection of Jesus, that the Pope himself has passed into the next world. And Francis, I think, clearly did not want to stop serving. He didn't want to stop working.
It's also extraordinary that he's passed, died during the jubilee year, which is very unusual for a Pope to die in a jubilee year. That hasn't happened very many times at all in the Church's history. So this really is an, you know, extraordinary moment. And I think people are going to have to take some time to process all of this.
But, yes, the last days of Francis were really dedicated to serving the church, to continuing his ministry right until the end. He did not resign, as some people speculated. He always signaled his determination to go until the end, to serve until the very last moment.
SANDOVAL: It is such an important point that you make there, Christopher, for Catholics around the world, myself included, that lasting image of Pope Francis will undoubtedly be him aboard that popemobile, making Those rounds through St. Peter's Square during that highest liturgical point of the calendar, as you mentioned.
Could you remind us also, Christopher, about how the Pope really helped usher the Catholic Church into not just modern, but also unconventional times and really became, often became a lightning rod for conservatives within the church?
LAMB: Well, that's right. I mean, Pope Francis was an outsider pope. He was the first pope for a long time to be elected who had never lived and studied in Rome. So, he very quickly shook up the Vatican and church establishment. He refused to be scripted by the Vatican bureaucracy and the Roman Curia, which is the Church's central administration. He was going to be very much his own man right from the beginning.
And that caused some people to feel very uncomfortable and worried because here was a Pope who wasn't going to follow the script, who was insistent that the Church become simpler, become more humble for those in senior positions to live simply. I mean, he took the decision to live in the Casa Santa Marta, the Vatican guest house, rather than the Apostolic Palace that popes had lived in before.
He shocked people by doing that. He lives in a -- lived in a simple suite of rooms in the Santa Marta. And this itself sent a big message because, you know, there are some cardinals who live in fairly comfortable apartment, shall we say.
But Pope Francis decided to live simply to give -- and preach a radical message that as I said earlier, was based on the fundamentals of Christian teaching. He was also outspoken on things such as the migrants crisis.
[04:30:00]
His first visit outside of Rome was to Lampedusa, the island where many people were risking their lives from North Africa to come to Italy in search of a better life. And they were dying in the Mediterranean in the process. Francis' first visit outside of Rome was to be on the island of Lampedusa to show his solidarity with migrants.
He also spoke against economic injustices and inequalities. That was a very important part of Francis' ministry that upset some of the, you know, the wealthy donor class, you could say, in the Catholic Church, those people who wanted the church to focus on certain topics. So there are some people in the Catholic Church, some groups who want
the Pope and the church to focus on the culture war issues. They want the Pope to continually talk about abortion, same sex marriage, contraception.
Francis said, look, I'm not going to change those things. And of course, he spoke out very strongly against abortion, but his focus was on the person, on the pastoral. That was particularly the case when it came to gay Catholics.
Now, in the past, some of the Vatican documents on homosexuality had caused a huge amount of hurt for gay Catholics. Francis shifted that narrative in a fundamental way when he said on the plane back from Brazil very soon after his election, he told journalists, when it comes to gay priests or gay people, who am I to judge?
And that was a radical shift in many respects. It wasn't a shift in teaching, but a shift in approach. And he offered blessings to same sex couples, which, again, was a major pastoral move to be more welcoming to gay people.
And all of these things that Francis did, when it came to migration, when it came to welcoming to LGBTQ Catholics, when it came to critiquing the economic system or economic injustice, all of those things did raise the ire and upset those Catholics who wanted a more traditional approach and who wanted a pope who perhaps would be more scripted and predictable.
Francis was a pope of surprises. I mean, when he announced cardinals, for example, no one knew who he was going to announce as a cardinal. Only he knew. And he would announce these names from the balcony or from the window of the Apostolic Palace. He announced the names of the new cardinals, and the cardinals themselves who were being named didn't know.
And a lot of these cardinals were people or bishops from far flung corners of the globe, places like Tonga or Haiti or the Central African Republic or Mongolia. And they were not the people or the bishops who would expect to be made cardinal. So he kind of pulled the rug from under the sort of church ecclesial career ladder.
So you know, if you were a bishop of a certain diocese, you might expect to be appointed a cardinal, a diocese, as a local church. So say you were archbishop of a certain diocese in Italy, you might expect to be made a cardinal. Francis said, no, that's not how I'm going to do it. I'm going to appoint those bishops, those people who are serving on the margins, who are in parts of the church that perhaps never had cardinals before.
So he dramatically globalized the College of Cardinals. And of course, it is the College of Cardinals who are now tasked with choosing the next pope. And so that is again, one of Francis lasting legacies is his change to the makeup of the cardinals who will elect a future pope.
SANDOVAL: It is the beginning of a millennia old process, one that's recently been updated as well, but not before a period of mourning. CNN Vatican correspondent Christopher Lamb, thank you so much for spending so much time with us and providing all of this incredible and critical insight right now, as Catholics around the world wake up to the news that the Holy Father, Pope Francis, dead at 88 years old.
We'll let you go so you can continue with your reporting as we now go to CNN senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman joining us live from Rome. Ben, where you are, what has been the reaction from people that you've spoken to?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the news has just come out and today, of course, is a holiday. It's the day after Easter known as Pasquetta here in Italy. And so it's a day that normally people go out to picnics. But Italians who I've spoken to have heard the news are shocked.
This was a pope who was very popular among Italians. He was seen in this time when politics is increasingly crude and rude and so much ugly language is being used.
[04:35:09]
Pope Francis was seen as one of the few world leaders who really just sort of radiated kindness and understanding and hope and simply a positive attitude and concern for the poor and the migrants and the unfortunate. He was seen as somebody who really embodied the kind of values that people ideally would like to see in world leaders.
So people are shocked, shocked because of course, yesterday we saw Pope Francis, came out in the popemobile, drove around St. Peter's Square, greeted people, said a few words, and then in the evening, he met with Vice U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance. Certainly it was perhaps his busiest day since getting out of the hospital.
And for people to wake up this morning and hear the news that he has died at 7:35 a.m. local time, according to the Vatican, is quite a shock because certainly during those long weeks when Pope Francis was in Rome's Gemelli Hospital suffering from double pneumonia, there really was sort of this trepidation one could feel in the air that perhaps he would never leave that hospital alive.
When he left the hospital, there was a great big sigh of relief from so people here to see him leave hospital appear to be recovering and of course, so this out of the blue for him to die like this. Of course, he was 88. His health was frail, but nonetheless the assumption was that he was on the road to recovery as much as one can be at 88 with shaky health.
Nonetheless, people here are indeed shocked and saddened by the news of the death of Pope Francis, perhaps one of the popular popes in recent history. Polo.
SANDOVAL: Ben, where you are in Rome, I'm curious if you could just offer some insight in what you've experienced in the city, and certainly not to make light of it, but this roller coaster of emotions, to a certain extent for some of the people there, this anticipation, this concern, and then eventual surprise to see him, as you point out, aboard that popemobile and then followed by this deep sense of shock and sadness.
I mean, just incredible when you reflect on the last three days for people where you are, especially those Catholics.
WEDEMAN: Yes. I mean, think about it. In February, mid-February, he went into hospital, and a few days later he was diagnosed with double pneumonia. There really was a feeling that he, given his health, might not make it. And certainly yesterday was Easter, a very important holiday for Italians and Catholics around the world.
And today for Italians, normally it's a day when people go out to the countryside, to the beach, they go on picnics. It's a day sort of to enjoy the Spring weather, all that has changed, all those plans perhaps may go out the window for many people who are in a state of shock.
Keep in mind that, you know, the Pope lives in Rome. He's a neighbor of people who live in Rome. And oftentimes when there are major events at the Vatican, whether the death of a pope, the election of a pope, people just flock to St. Peter's and certainly I think that's what we can expect today for the death of somebody, as I said, who is very popular, seen as somebody who had the milk of human kindness flowing in his veins at a time when that seems to be going out of style.
The milk in many veins of our leaders have gone sour -- has gone sour. And for him to leave at this time of all times is really quite a shock for people. But nonetheless, in a sense, it doesn't come as a complete surprise, given that he's 88. He had part of his right lung removed many years ago. He has, he had mobility problems. He had recurrent lung problems, respiratory problems.
So even though people were hoping that he would live longer, I think there's a realization that his health was shaky as it was. But as I said, those Italians I've spoken to were very upset, very saddened to see the passing of such an important figure in their lives, Polo.
SANDOVAL: And I'm so glad you mentioned that this is a pope, a life of humility, simplicity.
[04:40:00]
So he lived as a resident among the people in the Vatican, surrounding regions, in Rome as well. And I'm so glad that you speak to that as well. So for many, it is more than just losing the head of the Catholic Church. It is losing somebody that they considered to be a fellow resident of the area, I take it.
WEDEMAN: Yes. And he was, as you mentioned, he was a humble man. He chose not to live in the very sumptuous apostolic apartments in Vatican City. And he lived in Casa Santa Marta, which is basically a residence, sort of the Vatican Hotel. Very simple. He lived in a small, it's called a suite, but it was really just a couple rooms and that was it. And he would eat his meals in the cafeteria with the staff, the
gardening staff, everybody. And he was somebody who. He didn't like all the fancy vestments that the previous popes wore. He drove around in a Fiat 500, not a fancy car. This was a man who was humble. His tastes were humble, but nonetheless, at the same time, he was a man with a real sense of humor and sort of. He had the common touch.
I remember I was in St. Peter's Square when he was -- he came out and made his first appearance as Pope and sort of, he ended his words, his address to the crowd with Bonicena, have a good dinner, in Italian, which is basically sort of a very humble way of saying, you know, have a good Sunday, have a good day.
So he was a man who really touched a chord in Italians, in Catholics around the world, as somebody who did not worship wealth and power, somebody who always was concerned with the poor and the downtrodden. And as my friend and colleague Chris was just talking about, when he became Pope, his first visit was to Lampedusa, an island in the Mediterranean, sort of the first point of arrival for migrants who are making that very dangerous, treacherous crossing over the Mediterranean.
And, you know, migrants, of course, in this age, in this era, are looked upon as illegal aliens and undocumented. He looked at these people as human beings. And I think that was something that really struck people, is that he had this deep humanity that, as I said, seems to be a scarcer and scarcer quantity these days.
SANDOVAL: I recall some of our recent reporting too, Ben, when it comes to how he sought to really enlarge the role of women in the Vatican. Even I recall, if I'm not mistaken, in recent months, even appointing a woman to a very high profile role within the Vatican. So I think that's also an important point to be made in terms of how he really expanded the horizons of the church.
WEDEMAN: Yes, he expanded the horizons of the church in many ways, appointing women to senior positions, which is an absolute first. Keep in mind, the Vatican is really, until Pope Francis was a men's club. It was a place where, of course, you know, nuns and whatnot and sisters have a role to play, but it was by and large a supporting role.
And he made it clear that he felt that women were equal partners in the operations, in the workings of the church. And he made that clear at every possible occasion. But this was somebody who wanted to include those who traditionally had been excluded from the upper echelons of the Vatican bureaucracy and the church in general. He, as far Chris, again, he's the expert, was saying that he did not have a preference for church leaders from Italy.
He's, of course, from Italian background, even though he was Argentinian. He was always looking beyond sort of the traditional boundaries of the church hierarchy to Africa, to Asia, to Latin America, to bring in people to hold ever more senior positions within the church. So he certainly was somebody who broke down barriers. And of course, the hope is that this will continue with his successor. Polo.
SANDOVAL: And Ben, don't go anywhere. Just want to bring our viewers up to speed now, coming up on 10:45 in the morning in Vatican City, where officials, they're confirming the death of Pope Francis at 88.
As we work to learn more tributes from around the world are coming including from French President Emmanuel Macron paying a tribute to the Holy Father who died on Easter Monday.
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Writing from Buenos Aires to Rome, Pope Francis wanted the church to bring joy and hope to the poorest, to unite people with one another and with nature. He goes on to write, may this hope be resurrected incessantly beyond him. To all Catholics, to the grieving world, my wife and I sent our thoughts again, words from the French president, Emmanuel Macron, one of many tributes that are coming in right now, Ben.
And I also think it's important to point out how this is a pope that was no stranger to uncomfortable situations. I remember covering, I remember being on the ground, covering him visiting Havana and meeting with government officials there, and basically, to a certain extent, even finger.
And that went all the way down to just in recent days, particularly over the weekend, when he met with Vice President J.D. Vance, of course, the Holy Father, no stranger to criticizing the Donald Trump administration.
WEDEMAN: Yes. And in fact, the J.D. Vance meeting, which took place yesterday afternoon, Rome time, was apparently very brief. And it was actually his deputy who met with Vance the day before and apparently gave the U.S. Vice president, who is a convert to Catholicism, something of a lecture on kindness, on compassion, to a man in an administration that many people feel simply is completely devoid of any compassion.
So certainly, yes, the pope has never shied away from expressing opinions that perhaps were contrary to those held elsewhere, for instance, on the question of God. He has been a very strong proponent for an end to the war. He's expressed time and time again concern for the suffering of the people in Gaza.
He before -- he went into hospital, he tried to speak every evening with the priest, the Catholic priest in Gaza, to see how people were, how they were getting by. And this at a time when most leaders will perhaps express concern, but at the same time they'll turn around and approve arms sales to Israel that allowed this war to continue.
So he certainly was somebody who was different from so many world leaders who he walked the walk and talked the talk when it came to his conviction that war is an obscenity. And oftentimes, even when he was in hospital, he would put out statements expressing concern, calling for the end of war in places that, for instance, the mainstream media simply ignores, like the Congo. He certainly never dropped the ball when it came to looking at the
world as a global family, as opposed to sort of tribes with flags, as one might describe the world scene at the moment. So he certainly was distinct in that regard. He never shied away from calling a spade of criticizing those he felt who simply had dropped, lost their humanity and were simply pursuing paths of violence and warfare and oppression that he simply rejected outright. And he never shied away from saying.
SANDOVAL: That and staying on Vice President J.D. Vance, regarding Pope Francis, we understand that he just at least issued a statement or at least released some remarks, the vice president saying, I just learned of the passing of Pope Francis. My heart goes out to the millions of Christians all over the world who loved him. And then he goes on to write that he was happy to see the pope just yesterday, as you just pointed out, Ben, also the vice president writing that though he was obviously very ill.
So the vice president's observation there made public during his moments with the Holy Father in that meeting that perhaps many people expected not to happen. And then we see him sitting there in front of the vice president and having that conversation as well.
We are also getting other reaction from around the world with Spain, Prime Minister Sanchez hailing Pope France's commitment, being somebody deeply committed to the most vulnerable. Ben, you are in Rome, as you pointed out earlier, it is a holiday. There's a lot of people certainly not working today. If you could just set the scene for what it's going to be like today and certainly in the weeks to come during this period of mourning for people there in Rome and specifically in the Vatican.
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WEDEMAN: Well, today began like a very nice early spring day. And I think people were making plans to go to the beach, go picnics. And I think now the atmosphere is clearly changed. I think a lot of people are going to change those plans and go to St. Peter's Square just to express perhaps their condolences, to just be in an important place at an important time.
And I think what we're going to see is that the normal rhythm of this very busy city is going to change in the coming days and perhaps weeks as we prepare for the funeral and then, of course, the conclave to choose the next to elect the next pope. So this is not going to be a couple days of mourning and that's it. This is going to be weeks of what we've seen before.
I mean, I was here for the death of John Paul II, the resignation of Benedict XVI. And it really is sort of a long process that will begin and certainly it begins today with profound sadness for many people. And it will end after the conclave. When we see the white smoke coming from Saint -- from the Vatican, we will see who the new pope is. I'm not going to delve into the who the possible candidates are. I think it's a little premature for that kind of speculation.
But this is a process through which Rome has been many times before over the centuries. So it's not an unfamiliar process. But every time a pope dies, it really sort of has an impact on people that goes beyond sort of your normal political leaders, because this man is not just a prominent figure in Rome itself, but he is the leader of the Roman Catholic Church. So certainly I think Rome's going to be busy and we're going to be busy for the coming weeks. Polo.
SANDOVAL: Indeed. And I hate to take more of your time, Ben, but I wonder if you could just in the last few moments here, tell us a little bit more about what we do know about the circumstances of Pope Francis death. Obviously taken into consideration at his advanced age and also in his delicate state of health. What have Vatican officials confirmed about the circumstances of the pope's death?
WEDEMAN: Well, they did put out a statement this morning and just read it. At 7:35 this morning, the bishop of Rome Francis, returned to the house of his father. His whole life was dedicated to the service of the Lord and his church. So basically 7:35, Pope Francis passed away.
They haven't given any details as to why, but I think it's not too difficult to understand why he spent weeks and weeks in Rome's Gemelli Hospital suffering double pneumonia. And since then he came out and, you know, the doctors when he left the hospital, you know, suggested that he rest, that he not exert himself. But Pope Francis was well known as a very headstrong individual when he wanted to do something. He's the pope. You can't tell him no.
And I think what we've seen, certainly with the amount of activity he's been engaged in since leaving the hospital is that he continued to insist on carrying on with a schedule, a full schedule. Yesterday, you know, he drove around St. Peter's Square in the Popemobile. He addressed the faithful. He met with J.D. Vance. Clearly he thought he was regaining his strength.
But as I said, a man 88 years old with a long history of health complications, this is what it is. 7:35 this morning, according to the Vatican, Pope Francis passed away.
SANDOVAL: Yes. Certainly not a surprise to Catholics around the world. Nonetheless painful and shocking for so many because of what he contributed during his time for well over a decade as the head of the Catholic Church. As Catholics around the world now waking up to news that Pope Francis has died. According to Vatican officials, he was 88 years old.
This now essentially starting that period between the death of the pope and the election of another, which essentially started, as Ben points out, in the 7 o'clock hour local time when his death was confirmed. Cardinals will now have to decide when that funeral can take place and after that, when that conclave can begin. But as Ben points out, we are still weeks and weeks away from that.
At this point, the focus certainly is on what we know about the death of Pope Francis and the reaction for Catholics all around the world.
[04:55:00] Ben, you are in Rome this morning. You mentioned what will certainly be this seismic shift in the mood after celebrating Easter weekend to now preparing to say farewell eventually to Pope Francis when the funeral begins, which again, we're waiting for those details as well. Would you like to share a little bit more about what people there, the immediate reaction that you've been getting from people in Rome after they got word of the Holy Father's passing?
WEDEMAN: Well, the immediate reaction, I'll tell you, was from my wife, who is Italian, and I was the one who informed her because I was informed by CNN of the death. And she, you know, just gasped because she, like so many other people here, was a great admirer of the pope.
And as I made my way to the CNN bureau here, you know, I could see people on their phone and I could hear people talking about the death of the pope. And it's -- this is the sort of thing that I'm sure that there are very few people at this point, at this time of the morning in Rome on a holiday who are unaware that the pope has passed away. And as I said, it leaves a big hole because this was a pope who was popular. You know, not all popes are popular.
Some popes I'm not going to mention who were seen as dour and sort of distant. But this was a pope who spoke the language of the people. He was from Argentina, but of Italian origin. And his preferred language of discourse in public was always Italian. Italian with a bit of an Argentinian accent, but Italian nonetheless. And he really struck a chord with people that I think previous popes didn't necessarily do that.
And so I think people are going to feel his loss profoundly. And as I said, you know, Italian politics, like politics elsewhere at the moment, is very rough and nasty. And some of the sort of the vocabulary being used people find crude and unpleasant. Pope Francis was somebody who spoke softly, who spoke with words of kindness and compassion, and he was somebody so many people here admired for those very reasons.
And as I said before, he was somebody who expressed concern at times when others were talking realpolitik about things like Gaza, Ukraine. He was concerned about the people, not politics, not power, not leaders, not presidents, not prime ministers. He was concerned about the people.
So I think his passing really will leave a void, perhaps filled by his successor, perhaps not. We don't know at this point, but will have leaves a void that people, not just here in Italy, Rome, but well beyond throughout. Not only the Catholic world.
For instance, I spend a lot of time in the Middle East. Many Muslims looked at him as a positive figure on the world scene, somebody who expressed concern about the suffering of all people, not just Christians, all people. And so I think his passing really does leave an empty space that will be hard to fill. Polo.
SANDOVAL: Pope Francis reach, as you point out, certainly knew no limits. That is Ben Wedeman, CNN senior national correspondent in Rome, gathering the latest. Ben, thank you so much for spending so much time with us and sharing all that valuable insight. You've been there along the way covering this papacy, but now ends with his death again at 88 years old. Ben, thank you.
Italian prime minister as well -- the Italian prime minister as well, responding and reacting to Pope Francis his death, issuing a statement just moments ago, the prime minister writing, I had the privilege of enjoying his friendship, his advice, his teachings, which never ceased, not even during times of trial and suffering. We say goodbye to the Holy Father with a heart full of sadness.
Again, that statement coming from the Italian prime minister just hours after Vatican officials confirmed the death of Pope Francis, dead at 88.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.
SANDOVAL: Good morning to our viewers watching in the U.S. and around the Paulo Sandoval in New York, where we are following breaking news. Pope Francis, the 266th head of the Roman Catholic Church, has died at 88 years old.
The Vatican made the announcement just over an hour ago, saying in a statement that the pope passed away at 7:35 a.m. local time in the Vatican. And this comes just weeks after he was discharged from a hospital in Rome where he was treated for double pneumonia.
And then just yesterday, Pope Francis gave the traditional Easter blessing from the balcony of St. Peter's Basilica, addressing a massive crowd of faithful worshippers in what was his highest profile appearance.
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