Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Trump And Zelenskyy Hold Talks Inside Vatican Ahead Of Funeral; Pope Francis Laid To Rest After Vatican Funeral Service; Judge Charged With Allegedly Obstructing Immigration Agents; Luigi Mangione Pleads Not Guilty To All Federal Charges; Multistate Measles Outbreak Reaches 762 Cases, 3 Confirmed Deaths; Prominent Role of Secretary Hegseth's Wife At Pentagon Draws Scrutiny. Aired 1-2p ET

Aired April 26, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:01:07]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Hello again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

And we begin with dramatic developments on the sidelines of Pope Francis' funeral involving President Trump and Ukrainian President Zelenskyy. The two meeting face-to-face following a tumultuous few days that saw escalating Russian attacks on Ukraine's capital of Kyiv. And a high-stakes meeting between U.S. envoy Steve Witkoff and Russian President Vladimir Putin.

CNN's Nic Robertson takes us through the surprise meeting between Trump and Zelenskyy just before the Pope's funeral got underway.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: You're looking here at images of an event we didn't know was going to happen. A meeting between U.S. President Donald Trump, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, a meeting on the margins of Pope Francis' funeral.

They're sitting inside the Vatican, inside St. Peter's Basilica. And joining them there, there's Emmanuel Macron, the French President, Keir Starmer, the British prime minister. Ukrainian officials say the meeting with President Trump was very productive. It lasted about 15 minutes.

But in one of the images there, Emmanuel Macron has his hand on Volodymyr Zelenskyy's shoulders. Very powerful image. Remembering that just a few months ago, back in February, the last time President Zelenskyy met President Trump, it was a tempestuous meeting.

The U.S. President pressuring to accept peace on terms he didn't want to accept, telling him that he wasn't appreciative enough of the U.S. support. A tempestuous meeting. Zelenskyy now having the backing of the French President, the British prime minister in those talks, and the symbolism writ larger than even just being in the Vatican.

While Pope Francis' funeral is being prepared, a pope who wanted peace in Ukraine, who was all about peace in his life, that this meeting should take place so symbolic.

Nic Robertson, CNN, London.

WHITFIELD: All right. Let's bring in now Kim Dozier. She's a CNN Global Affairs Analyst. Great to see you, Kim. So it was a brief meeting, only about 15 minutes, we understand, but how significant was that moment?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Call this one last gift from Pope Francis. This was the reset that these two leaders needed, that many officials I've spoken to didn't think was possible after the acrimony in the Oval Office.

What you saw was President Trump leaning forward, hanging on every word, and Zelenskyy looked like the grieving leader that he is, especially after a week besieged by hundreds of Russian missiles, many of them aimed at the capital itself, deadly airstrikes that have killed women, children.

It hammered home, it seems, for President Trump that Ukrainians are the victims in this war of aggression by Moscow. And we saw President Trump, he often tweets after a meeting to let the people he just met with know either that he heard them or to issue some sort of a riposte. And it sounds like he got it.

And then that got reinforced by Britain's Prime Minister Starmer, by French President Macron, in that huddle that made President Trump part of that group fighting against something that is unfair, fighting against a bully. And that is the reset that Europeans have hoped for.

WHITFIELD: Yes. And, you know, just to elaborate a little bit on what you're saying, because after this meeting, while on Air Force One, President Trump did post on social media, and he criticized Vladimir Putin for Russia's attacks on Ukraine this week, and he also wondered aloud if Putin is just tapping me along.

[13:05:04]

I mean, this is a very different tone coming from this President. And it also strikes as sort of a realization, perhaps, and maybe he's testing it, you know, with the masses, those who are reading his message. I mean, what do you think is behind that -- I don't know, we can't really call it an about face, but just a genuine thinking out loud sort of moment?

DOZIER: It was definitely a warning from President Trump to Putin that, you know, hey, you're not doing what we thought you would be doing at this point. As a matter of fact, when I called for peace this past week, you did the opposite. I even posted it publicly, and you did the opposite. And that's not on.

But we're also watching, other than that, just pure schoolyard bully reaction, but we're watching the education of Donald Trump about how hard peacekeeping is and making peace deals when you've got two sides that are diametrically opposed, hate each other for a reason. The positive part is it seems to be that he's starting to see Ukraine in a different light.

This has to be followed up with progress, and Ukrainian officials have hinted to me that there might be another high-profile meeting this coming week, so perhaps we could see a return of President Zelenskyy or the Ukrainian Prime Minister, someone at that high level who returns to the White House and signs that mineral deal just to keep this positive momentum going.

WHITFIELD: So heading into this weekend, you know, Trump had said that they were close to a deal, you know, between Russia and Ukraine. The White House implying that Ukraine would need to give up Crimea to Russia, but quite adamantly Zelenskyy was like, no, that's not going to happen. So what does close to a deal mean?

DOZIER: Yes, a Ukrainian official I spoke to who was briefed on the talk says, you know, at the lower level, the U.S.-Ukrainian-Europe relations are good. They're workmanlike, and we're working through some of these details.

But if you look at what's said publicly, the draft that we know the U.S. has sent around hands recognition of Crimea to Russia and allows Russia to keep the territory that it's currently occupying beyond Crimea. That is a non-starter with Ukraine in so many different ways.

But as that Ukrainian official told me, hey, at least we finally got a written draft from the Americans to work from and now we're going to work back and forth. We've given our version and now you get down to the bargaining, the negotiating. We just have to keep President Trump on board for the next steps.

WHITFIELD: All right. Kim Dozier, thank you so much.

DOZIER: Thanks.

WHITFIELD: Of course, the leaders were there of the masses, along with hundreds of thousands of other people paying their final respects to Pope Francis. The Vatican celebrating a funeral mass for the first pope from Latin America.

Mourners from around the world gathering at St. Peter's Square to remember the life of a pope from humble beginnings. With Pope Francis now interred, the church's cardinals will soon be tasked with selecting which among them will become the next pontiff.

CNN's Barbie Latza Nadeau is live for us in Rome. So, Barbie, talk to us about where you are and, you know, the focus being shifted there now.

BARBIE LATZA NADEAU, CNN REPORTER: Yes, you know, we're in front of the Church of Santa Maria Maggiore here in Rome. This was Pope Francis' favorite church. He visited this church more than 100 times in his 12-year papacy, always before and after an international trip.

And most recently, when he got out of the hospital after spending five weeks fighting double pneumonia, he went to this church and loved this church because of the icon of the Virgin Mary that was so important to him and that he felt had guided him throughout his priesthood as a cardinal and then eventually as pope.

So what we saw here today when they brought Pope Francis into this particular church, which is not in Vatican City, it's on Italian soil, we just saw the crowds here, the people who are parishioners of this particular church, just really welcoming him. They're so proud that he chose this church where he'll be interred.

And he's got a very humble tombstone that just says Franciscus. It doesn't even say he was pope. As from tomorrow morning at 7:00 local time, this church will be open again and all the people of this neighborhood who felt like he was one of them, that he was one of their parishioners because he loved their church so much, will be able to pay their respects to him too.

But as you said, the mood is changing. Now that the Pope funeral is over, everyone's wondering who the next pope's going to be.

[13:10:01]

And if the next pope is going to be able to fill his shoes or if he's going to change the direction of the church, and there's a lot of a very large spectrum between who Pope Francis was and who some of the potential candidates might be.

So all eyes will be on Rome. We expect that conclave to be sometime in the next -- after next week. We haven't gotten a date yet, but everybody will be watching where the church is going from here, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Barbie Latza Nadeau in Rome. Thank you.

All right, let's talk more on all this. I'm joined now by Christopher Bellitto. He is a church historian at Kean University and the author of -- Kean University, sorry about that -- and the author of "101 Questions and Answers on Popes and the Papacy".

So great to see you. Thanks for being with us.

CHRISTOPHER BELLITTO, CHURCH HISTORIAN, KEAN UNIVERSITY: Thanks for having me.

WHITFIELD: So as you watch the procession at the Vatican today, what is most memorable for you?

BELLITTO: I think it's the simplicity of the whole thing, which -- I'm not the first person to remark on, but there was a real bond, as there often is between the Pope, which everyone, you know, thinks of as the head of the Catholic Church around the world. But you remember that he's also the Bishop of Rome.

And so many of the people that you saw in the crowd were people, citizens of Rome. Other pilgrims, of course, there too. And so there's kind of this intimate connection.

In fact, I thought that he would be buried at St. John Lateran Church, which is the seat of the Bishop of Rome, but he chose this other church. And I think also being buried outside of the Vatican, there's a big plaque in the Vatican that says all of the popes who are buried here, and there are many, many names, but being buried outside of the Vatican, I think also bonds him to the city of Rome.

WHITFIELD: And to the accessibility of the people, the visitors as well, right?

BELLITTO: Yes, it's easier to get into that church than it is the Vatican.

WHITFIELD: Yes. And, you know, that he had that particular relationship with that church, that would be the church that he would pray, you know, and visit fairly frequently. And Barbie was just saying, you know, after he, you know, was dealing with a variety of health ailments, that would be the place that he felt most comfortable.

BELLITTO: Yes, it's almost as if that church, that icon of Mary was his touchstone, as if Mary was his muse in a way. He was very devoted when he went to Germany in a very troubled period of his life. And he saw an icon there that was Mary, untire of knots.

And I think that that was a touchstone kind of, because, you know, this man really was a radical moderate, right? In the world today, being a moderate is a radical position. And he said things like, we must walk united in our differences.

And he was very much against ideology. You know, this is how it has to be, and I'm certain, and I have no doubt. And he said, if you have no doubt, you have no faith. Because doubt is part of faith, and we need to discuss that and realize our vulnerability, our humility in seeking the aid of something, someone, some cause that is greater than our own. So he's very much against isms, fundamentalisms.

WHITFIELD: So soon to the conclave, what, there will be nine days of mourning. But in that time, many of the cardinals are talking, right? They're having lunch, they're having dinner, they're talking about, you know, who might be, you know, selected.

Is this a very intense, I guess, procedure before things get underway, and they all go to the Sistine Chapel, and then they're there for a while of, you know, talk, contemplating, and before that vote takes place? Or is this, you know, a relatively calm, at ease kind of process? Is there urgency?

BELLITTO: Well, I've never been inside it, so I can't say. But I have heard a number of cardinals who have been through conclaves, who saw the movie "Conclave", who said for all of its pros and cons, it did get the intensity right.

Because I think the cardinals, you -- when you vote in the Sistine Chapel, you hold up a piece of a ballot, right? You've written on a name, a pre-printed ballot that says in Latin, Eligo in Summum Pontificem. You write down a name, you fold it, so nobody else can see it. But before you put it in the urn that captures the ballots, you say a sentence in Latin, I testify that this is the person I think God wants selected. You know, I have fear and trembling when I go in to vote, you know, in my local election. Can you imagine?

So I think they're feeling the weight of this decision, that it's a very important decision. Perhaps one of the most important decisions they will ever make in their lives.

WHITFIELD: And ultimately, a very big decision. Do you see it as looking for someone who will fill the shoes, as Barbie puts it, of Pope Francis? Or is it taking the church in a different direction?

[13:15:13]

BELLITTO: Well, I've studied a lot of conclaves and I've learned to expect the unexpected. And so I'm going to make no predictions whatsoever, except that the name that is going to come out after Habemus Papam is likely a name that we're not talking about or we're not talking about very much right now.

One of Francis' favorite expressions was reality is superior to ideas. And I just have a sense that the reality of the world today, our incredibly divided, I have to win, you have to lose, binary zero-sum game. I have the sense that the popes are looking for someone who can kind of split that difference and bring diverse groups to the table.

WHITFIELD: All right. Christopher Bellitto, thank you so much.

BELLITTO: Thanks for having me.

WHITFIELD: Coming up, the attorney for Luigi Mangione says a member of the district attorney's office eavesdropped on a call between her and Mangione. What that could do to this case?

And we'll go live to St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York City, where mourners are paying their respects to Pope Francis.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:21:09]

WHITFIELD: Today, mourners around the world said a final farewell to Pope Francis, his final resting place inside St. Mary Maggiore Basilica, where his tomb is simply inscribed with his name in Latin, Franciscus, a testament to his life of simplicity and humility.

Here in the United States, some of the faithful gathered at St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York City for a special memorial mass. CNN's Brynn Gingras is joining us from outside the cathedral. Brynn, it looks like a lot of people are still lined up outside.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, actually, Fred, the service is now over and we're actually seeing people start to file out of St. Patrick's Cathedral, but it really was a packed cathedral for this remembrance of Pope Francis. There were members of the U.N. inside, religious dignitaries, really a lot of people from all different even faiths that were inside to take a moment and reflect on who Pope Francis was as a person.

And the Archbishop Katia is the one who oversaw this mass. Now, he had actually a personal connection with Pope Francis. He was the permanent observer of the Holy See to the United Nations, and that's actually a position that Pope Francis appointed him to back in 2019.

So he really had this personal connection that he was able to reflect on as part of his homily, where he told the people in attendance inside the cathedral to remember Pope Francis for the man who he was from his humble beginnings all the way up to becoming Pope. And how you just said it, Fred, how he continued to live his life with such humility.

And like you said, Fred, there was a line of people trying to get into this 12:00 mass. We talked to a few of them. Take a listen to what one woman had to say about wanting to be there.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

TANYA BROWN, ATTENDED POPE FRANCIS MEMORIAL MASS AT ST. PATRICK'S CATHEDRAL: I just always loved Pope Francis. I watched every Christmas Eve until the very end of that sermon. It's phenomenal. And I just love how he was such a people's pope.

He was kind. He always seemed to be the most like Jesus. I believe that, you know, he was the closest thing to Jesus on Earth until a few days ago. So, I think that's the most special part.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

GINGRAS: And that woman said, you know, I really wanted to come to this specific mass because she wanted closure, right? That is where we are with the passing of Pope Francis. People remembering him, but also taking a moment to close this chapter as they look forward to who will be the next pope. Fred?

WHITFIELD: So well said. All right, Brynn Gingras, thank you so much.

Straight ahead, a former New Mexico judge and his wife arrested on charges of allegedly tampering with evidence linked to a suspected Venezuelan gang member.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:28:26]

WHITFIELD: The Justice Department on Friday announced criminal charges in two separate cases involving judges as the Trump administration focuses on judges' conduct relating to immigration enforcement. A Wisconsin judge was arrested and charged in federal court Friday for allegedly helping an undocumented immigrant avoid arrest.

Judge Hannah Dugan faces two charges for obstruction and concealing an individual from arrest outside her courtroom. A statement was released on behalf of Judge Dugan saying she will, I'm quoting now, "will defend herself vigorously and looks forward to being exonerated", end quote.

Also on Friday, a former New Mexico judge and his wife were arrested for allegedly tampering with evidence related to the federal investigation of a Venezuelan national.

CNN Correspondent Julia Vargas Jones has more on all of this. Julia, walk us through what happened.

JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fred, it all started with a tip back in January that undocumented migrants were living on a judge's property in Las Cruces, New Mexico and in possession of firearms. That home belonged to the former county judge Jose Luis Cano and his wife Nancy Cano.

Authorities allege that, in court documents, that one of the people living on the property was Cristhian Ortega-Lopez, that Venezuelan national who they say is a member of a gang called Tren de Aragua. In the complaint, there are multiple photos and videos of this migrant who appears to be holding -- in a shooting range, holding handguns or assault-style rifles in different of those images you see there.

Investigators say that in those photos, it was -- that's how they identify tattoos, clothing, and other hand gestures that they say are commonly associated with Tren de Aragua, saying that that provided strong evidence of his potential connection to the gang.

[13:30:12]

Judge Cano denies ever knowing of the possible gang affiliation, writing in a letter to the court, "Let me be as crystal clear as possible. The very first time I ever heard that the men could possibly have any association with Tren de Aragua was when I was informed of that by the agents on the day of the raid".

But federal authorities also claim that the judge admitted to smashing a cell phone with a hammer because it could have had photos of Ortega- Lopez holding firearms, and that his wife, Nancy, consulted with the alleged gang member over how to delete Facebook posts.

Judge Cano is now charged with tampering with evidence, while his wife is charged with conspiracy to tamper with evidence. We've reached out to their attorney for comment.

Judge Cano resigned in March after the case first came to light, Fred. And the New Mexico Supreme Court ordered then for him to never run for judicial office in the future. U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi said that this is part of her effort to go after judges seen as hindering this administration's immigration policy.

WHITFIELD: All right, Julia Vargas Jones, thank you so much.

All right, the attorney for accused killer Luigi Mangione says a member of the district attorney's office inadvertently eavesdropped on a call between her and Mangione. This allegation comes as Mangione recently pleaded not guilty to the federal charges in the murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

CNN's Kara Scannell is following the story.

KARA SCANNELL, CNN REPORTER: Mangione came into the courtroom. He was escorted by U.S. Marshal. Both his ankles and his wrists were shackled. He's wearing a beige prison jumpsuit, not the usual street clothes that he has normally been able to change into.

So he stood up when he was asked how he was going to plead in this case. He leaned into the microphone and he said not guilty to these four federal charges, including murder through the use of the firearm. That is the charge that makes this case death penalty eligible.

And overnight, prosecutors informed the judge that they did intend to seek the death penalty, saying they thought it was justified because they believe Mangione intended to shoot UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson and kill him. And that they believe that he risked future potential harm because he has said that part of his actions were intended to rally political and public and social support against the health care industry.

His lawyer raised it, the court hearing, saying that because prosecutors do want to seek the death penalty in this case, they want this case, the federal case, to go to trial first before the state charges. But this was something that his lawyer raised. It will probably get some resistance from state prosecutors who have been pushing to have their trial, their case go to trial first.

All of that still to be decided. We did see in the courtroom today there were about 30 members of the public there. No one dressed in any of the pro-Mangione gear. But outside there was a pocket of protesters or supporters for him that did have signs saying "Free Luigi".

Mangione will be back in state court in June and back at this courthouse in December. That is when the federal judge said she expects to set a trial date for some time in 2026.

WHITFIELD: Kara Scannell, thanks so much.

All right, coming up, public health experts and the Walmart heiress launch a new initiative to protect vaccines as false claims are spreading about the measles outbreak and the vaccine to prevent it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:38:20]

WHITFIELD: A new initiative to combat vaccine misinformation has been formed by a group of public health experts and a -- and also funded by a foundation that includes Walmart heiress Christy Walton. The Vaccine Integrity Project comes on the heels of an expanding measles outbreak and mixed messages on ways to treat the disease from Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

He only recently gave the measles vaccine a clear endorsement while still insisting that it's a personal choice on whether or not to get it.

Joining me right now for more perspective on this is Infectious Disease Epidemiologist Jessica Malaty Rivera. Great to see you. So what are your thoughts on why or how purposeful this kind of safety net might be?

JESSICA MALATY RIVERA, INFECTIOUS DISEASE EPIDEMIOLOGIST: Yes, you know, Fred, I was very heartened to see this announcement. It seems to be a collective of experts to gather feedback on how our non- government and federal agencies can protect vaccine policy, vaccine information, even the utilization of vaccines in the U.S. in a time when it appears that public health heads of states and agency officials are working really hard to undermine decades of vaccine research.

This is sadly very necessary. We have these officials who are coming in with the intention to redo things and to relitigate decades long research. And they're doing it under the guise of just asking questions.

But it stops being just asking questions when you've come to the table with preconceived notions and answers that you like better than what the evidence suggests. So this is -- it's necessary and it's sad that we even need it.

[13:40:05]

WHITFIELD: And a new polling out this week says one-third of adults have heard the false claims that the measles, mumps, rubella, MMR vaccine causes autism. Do you think Secretary Kennedy's inconsistency on vaccinations is contributing to this sort of vaccine hesitancy, especially regarding measles?

RIVERA: He really is. I mean this polling data that just came out this week from KFF suggests that the number of adults who've seen some of these claims have increased by 15 percent and that adults are finding it difficult to even to know what is true and what is not true.

These information ecosystems are becoming increasingly dangerous and it's not just opinions, it's actually affecting decision making from a lot of parents. We're seeing vaccine refusal increasing, we're seeing thresholds of herd immunity drop in kindergarten classes, and RFK Jr. is not helping anybody in this context.

He continues to kind of speak out of both sides of his mouth when he says that the MMR vaccine is the safest, most effective way to prevent measles. But also positioning, you know, not confirmed treatments and alternative things that could be harmful like vitamin A and cod liver oil.

In fact, an increase in liver toxicity was reported among kids in Texas after he made such claim shortly after also saying that the MMR vaccine was the most safe and effective way to prevent measles. So it's very concerning that our most senior officials in public health are putting out false claims about vaccine effectiveness, vaccine safety, even the risk of the disease itself, which is quite severe. I mean, we have three deaths, only 800 confirmed cases. That tells us there's an undercount because we typically see that many deaths with at least 1,000 cases. So unfortunately, the U.S. is really at a crossroads here. We are at risk of losing our measles elimination status, which we've had for 25 years.

WHITFIELD: So what is it going to take in your view to convince skeptical communities that well-studied vaccines are safe?

RIVERA: Yes, it's a great question and it's something that I work tirelessly on personally and with the organizations that I'm affiliated with to put out reliable, trustworthy information for folks so that they can make informed choices. The American people deserve evidence-based vaccine recommendations from trustworthy sources.

It really breaks my heart that our agencies are at risk of no longer becoming or remaining those trusted sources. We have to do our best to be transparent, to be honest, to be timely, to be humble about it. And right now, this politicization of public health and this fighting that we're seeing happening at HHS and CDC and NIH with on top of the massive budget cuts is doing nothing to help restate trust in public health infrastructure.

WHITFIELD: As you mentioned, three deaths related to measles thus far. What are your concerns about the spread of measles and, you know, leading to illness or more deaths?

RIVERA: Yes. Measles is the most contagious infectious disease that we know. One person can infect up to 12 to 18 people. If you compare that to COVID, COVID can infect about one to two people per person who's infected.

So we're talking about massive exponential growth of an outbreak that right now is not controlled. And so I am worried that we are going to see measles potentially continue, that our elimination status will decrease.

I mean, modelers that just came out of -- data from Stanford modelers this week even said that it could become endemic in the U.S. again in the next 20 years if this is continuing to spread unmitigated. So we know that the measles and mumps, rubella vaccine is extremely safe and effective, and it's the best way to protect people from even getting the disease.

The fact that we would even allow more children to be infected and potentially die, to me, shows a huge failure of communication, a huge failure of our ability to communicate risk and benefits. And I really worry that it's going to cause unnecessary harm.

WHITFIELD: All right, we'll leave it there for now.

Jessica Malaty Rivera, thank you so much. Always a pleasure having you.

RIVERA: Thanks for having me. WHITFIELD: All right, a brand new CNN original series will take you on a journey with some of your favorite stars. Join Alan Cumming in the Scottish Highlands for the premiere episode Sunday at 10:00 p.m. right here on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My happy place. One place where I could truly be myself. I am totally in love.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel a deep sense of calm when I'm here. I slow down, I connect.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The city feels like an extension of my personality.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whenever my schedule clears, I head straight to my happy place, Austin, Texas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a level of joy that I get from people that actually appreciate the music.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's something about Thailand that just seemed very welcoming to me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hate how good that taste is.

[13:45:01]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I needed a radical change of scenery.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bali allowed me to find the part of me that I had lost.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want people to experience this highly captivating, culture filled, beautifully intricate, diverse city. There's no other place like it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Didn't we just watch his movie today?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Life's crazy in it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "My Happy Place" premieres Sunday on CNN.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:50:14]

WHITFIELD: The funeral for Pope Francis was filled with tradition, religious rites, and a few surprises for the hundreds of thousands in attendance. CNN's Clarissa Ward has more.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE) CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The bells echoed through Vatican City, a final call to grieve as Pope Francis was laid to rest. Under a spotless sky, hundreds of thousands of mourners gathered in St. Peter's Square to say goodbye.

From all corners of the world, presidents, priests, pilgrims, and the public, the Pope chose to be buried in a simple wooden coffin, a testament to the humble life Francis led.

CARDINAL GIOVANNI BATTISTA RE, DEAN OF THE COLLEAGE OF CARDINALS (through translation): Despite his frailty and suffering towards the end, Pope Francis chose to follow this path of self-giving until the last day of his earthly life.

WARD (voice-over): In his homily, Cardinal Giovanni Battista Re paid tribute to Francis' extraordinary legacy.

BATTISTA (through translation): He was a Pope amongst the people with an open heart towards everyone. He was also a Pope attentive to the signs of the times.

WARD (voice-over): The Vatican says more than 250,000 people packed the square.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to show our love for our Pope, Pope Francis. This is the only way that we can show to him our love and our prayer.

WARD (voice-over): Some remembered his words, others how he made them feel.

LARA, RESIDENT FROM MALTA: He was not afraid to speak and, according to me, in my opinion, he was always ready to give a voice to the voiceless.

WARD (voice-over): All now feel the weight of his absence.

(SINGING)

WARD (voice-over): Carried through the hallowed halls of St. Peter's Basilica, Pope Francis' coffin was prepared for its last journey, a historic one, through the city he served, and he left one final surprise. His coffin transported not in a hearse, but in his famous popemobile.

As the convoy crossed through Rome, some 150,000 mourners lined the streets, all hoping to catch a final glimpse of a Pope they revered.

In another break from centuries of tradition, his coffin was laid to rest in the Basilica of Santa Maria Maggiore, awaiting him on the steps a group of marginalized, invited specifically by the Pope to be among the last to say goodbye.

He was then buried in a private ceremony.

His papacy is now over, but it has left behind a mark that will not fade.

Clarissa Ward, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

WHITFIELD: Still ahead, new questions about the role of Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth's wife at the Pentagon after sources tell CNN that she requested a security clearance.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:58:02]

WHITFIELD: The wife of Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth is playing an unprecedented role at the Pentagon, and it's raising some eyebrows among senior officials. Jennifer Hegseth's presence there has been drawing attention since her husband included her in a group chat that disclosed sensitive information about recent U.S. military strikes.

CNN's Brian Todd explains.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): She's not formally employed at the Pentagon, and it's unclear whether she has a security clearance, though a source tells CNN she's applied for one. A Pentagon spokesperson said the department does not discuss security clearances for any individual.

But Jennifer Hegseth is now firmly entrenched in her husband's inner circle and in his controversies. Jennifer Hegseth was in a recent second Signal group chat in which her husband, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, shared sensitive information about U.S. military operations against the Houthi rebels.

Pete Hegseth didn't refute the reporting that he'd shared information on a Signal chat with his wife, but did say this to Fox News.

PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: What was shared over Signal then and now, however you characterize it, was informal, unclassified coordinations for media coordination and other things.

TODD (voice-over): Jennifer Hegseth met her husband when they both worked at Fox News. Each has three children from previous marriages, and they have one child together. Jennifer Hegseth has been perpetually by her husband's side since his confirmation process earlier this year. She often went with him to his meetings with senators on Capitol Hill.

And a Senate aide tells CNN there was particular frustration among female senators that Jennifer Hegseth was there because they were looking to ask Pete Hegseth about allegations against him of sexual assault, which he has denied.

Jennifer Hegseth's presence at those meetings, quote, "totally changed the dynamic" of the conversations about the assault allegations, the aide said.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, AIR FORCE (RET.): Really put a damper on those senators' ability to actually ask the most sensitive questions and to get a real flavor for what he was all about, whether he was being truthful or whether he was, you know, trying to hide something.

TODD (voice-over): Multiple sources tell CNN Pete Hegseth has grown increasingly paranoid about potential leaks to the media within the Pentagon and has begun depending on a smaller circle for counsel, including his wife.

[14:00:08]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ?It was Jesus and Jenny.

TODD (voice-over): A U.S. official tells CNN Jennifer Hegseth shares her husband's distrust of many media outlets besides Fox. Jennifer Hegseth has also attended at least one official meeting with her husband at the Pentagon in March with Britain's defense secretary.

Pentagon Press Secretary Kingsley Wilson tells CNN that Jennifer Hegseth, quote, "exited the meeting before any sensitive and classified discussions occurred". Still, one watchdog says her mere presence at that meeting could send concerning signals.

GREG WILLIAMS, DIRECTOR, PROJECT ON GOV. OVERIGHT'S CENTER FOR DEFENSE INFORMATION: If foreign leaders can't count on her Secretary of Defense, not to share sensitive information with their spouse or other personal connections, whether via Signal or in-person meetings, it's inevitably lessens their willingness to share sensitive information with us. That makes us less safe.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

TODD (on-camera): Pentagon Press Secretary Kingsley Wilson tells CNN that Jennifer Hegseth is a, quote, "incredibly accomplished woman and leader". Wilson also said of her that she is a trusted adviser to her husband and an advocate for military families.

Brian Todd, CNN Washington.