Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Pakistan Retaliates against "Indian Aggression"; Putin and Xi Meet in Moscow; Questions about "Libya Flight" Remain Unanswered; Department of Education Cuts $1 Billion in Mental Health Funding; Trump's Trade War; Pope Leo XIV Faces Packed Schedule, Comparisons to Francis. Aired 5-6a ET
Aired May 10, 2025 - 05:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[05:00:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Welcome to all of you watching here in the United States, Canada and around the world, I'm Kim Brunhuber. This is CNN NEWSROOM.
U.S. offers meditation as India and Pakistan exchange fire overnight. We have live reports from both sides of the border.
World leaders gather in Kyiv, hoping to pressure Russia to accept a ceasefire with Ukraine. But Vladimir Putin is conducting his own high- level talks. We're live in Moscow with more.
Plus, there's a potential for a trade deal between the U.S. and China. What we can expect from the meeting in Switzerland today.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Live from Atlanta, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Kim Brunhuber.
BRUNHUBER: Hours after an escalation in their conflict, Pakistan's foreign minister says that if India stops its military actions, then so will its country. Now the comments come after Pakistan launched strikes against what it says are military targets in India and Indian- administered Kashmir.
The government in Islamabad says it was retaliating for Indian aggression. Now India, for its part, said it responded effectively to the strikes early Saturday. Indian officials confirmed the death of at least one person. For more on all this, I'm joined by CNN's Nic Robertson in Islamabad and journalist Vedika Sud in Delhi.
Nic, I want to start with you.
Those words from Pakistani officials, any hope this signals the potential for de-escalation?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes. The foreign minister has said that Pakistan genuinely wants peace. I think there's a lack of trust, obviously, between India and Pakistan at the moment. It does feel as if there's a potential pause for diplomacy.
We know that the U.S. secretary of state, Marco Rubio, has reached out to counterparts in India and Pakistan and has offered to mediate. This is the first time that the United States has put such an offer to mediate between the two sides.
Saudi press agencies are reporting that the foreign minister there has reached out to both sides. Again, efforts at diplomacy. The deputy foreign minister of Saudi Arabia was in both India and Pakistan just yesterday. So there is some efforts at diplomacy that have been going on in the background.
And this is the window where they could bear fruit and things could look different tomorrow, by the end of today even. But the deep mistrust between both sides, I think, is significant.
And the way that Pakistan responded overnight to those three attacks in the early hours today on Pakistani air bases, one of them just six miles from here in the center of Islamabad, the way it responded, a very strong response, very strong language used by state media announcing the attack.
The Iron Wall is the operation that the military is calling it. They say that they -- security sources say that they've attacked eight different military bases inside of India. They say that they've hit a sophisticated surface to air system, a missile storage facility.
And they also say that they've hit a number of Indian army bases along the line of control in the disputed Kashmir region.
We are also understanding now from Kashmir, Pakistan-controlled part of Kashmir, they are saying that more than 1,000 people now have been evacuated from along that contentious and now very military hot line of control.
So the effects on the ground are still being felt. There appears to be somewhat of a pause in this overnight significant Pakistan response to India's airstrikes.
But is that going to be a big enough window for really diplomacy to take hold?
There's some real fundamental issues here and it's not clear that those can be easily addressed.
BRUNHUBER: Interesting. All right. Appreciate that.
Vedika, I want to go to you now. Tell us about the repercussions in India from those latest Pakistani strikes and what Indian officials are now saying.
VEDIKA SUD, JOURNALIST: Well, the Indian officials did address a press conference a couple of hours ago. It was India's foreign secretary, along with two representatives from the Indian army as well as the Indian air force. They say that they have effectively countered and responded to
Pakistan's military aggression, which was started by them, they claim, overnight. We've reached out to Pakistan for comment on all the allegations made by India in that press conference.
India also went on to say that 26 locations across the line of control on the Indian side were targeted by Pakistan overnight Saturday. It also admitted to limited damage to four air force stations in India in terms of equipment and personnel.
[05:05:07]
But India also went on to say that they targeted with precision about six military areas in Pakistan, along with some other places as well. Now India has also accused Pakistan of escalating tensions further.
They allege -- and again, we've reached out to Pakistan for comment on this -- that there has been troop movement toward the border, which indicates an escalation of sorts.
In terms of dialogue and talks and the international community weighing in, you had the U.S. secretary of state reach out to the external affairs minister, S. Jaishankar. And this is what S. Jaishankar had to say on X in a statement.
He acknowledged the call and said, "India's approach has always been measured and responsible and remains so."
You had Marco Rubio also say that it's time for both sides to try and find ways to deescalate. You've had the G7 ministers, you've had the European Union also reach out asking for deescalation.
And I put that question to Michael Kugelman, who is a columnist with the "Foreign Policy" magazine and here's what he had to say about what could perhaps lead to de-escalation, though the tensions remain high on both sides of the line of control.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL KUGELMAN, "FOREIGN POLICY": The state of play on the battlefield, given how much anger there is in both capitals, given how uncompromising leaders from both countries sound, my sense is that, in the immediate term, it's quite unlikely that there would be bilateral efforts toward de-escalation.
Suggesting that the need for international mediation has grown more important.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SUD: And tensions across India remain. This morning was a tense morning for people when they woke up to the news of Pakistan's allegations. A lot of it cleared out after the Indian press conference, the press conference from India's side happened. But tensions remain on both sides of the border as we speak -- back to you. BRUNHUBER: Listen, it's great to get reporting on both sides of the
border from both of you. Nic Robertson in Islamabad and Vedika Sud in Delhi, thank you so much.
A number of European leaders are in Kyiv meeting with Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy. They're members of the so-called coalition of the willing, helping Ukraine stand up to Russia.
Leaders of the U.K., France and Germany arrived in Kyiv by train a short time ago. Then they took part in a candle ceremony with President Zelenskyy. They're planning to discuss a proposed 30-day ceasefire with Russia.
U.S. President Donald Trump spoke with several European leaders on Thursday. They discussed the ceasefire proposal and possible new sanctions on Russia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I have a message for both parties. Get this war ended. We're losing 5,000 soldiers a week. Russian and Ukrainian soldiers and other people also, by the way. And I say, get this stupid war finished. That's my message for both of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: Vladimir Putin's spokesperson says Russia has always supported the 30-day ceasefire proposal. But he says certain nuances must be addressed. He didn't say what those might be. CNN's senior international correspondent Fred Pleitgen joins us now live from Moscow.
So Fred, take us through what Russia is saying about these talks and prospects of a ceasefire.
We've lost Fred. We will hopefully get back to him a little later on in our program.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: -- minutes, possibly a little bit longer, is going to meet with the leader of Vietnam.
(CROSSTALK)
PLEITGEN: And this is part of a flurry of the activities around May 9th and around that May 9th parade, where obviously leaders of various countries came here to Moscow to pay their respects for 80 years of the defeat of Nazi Germany. Of course, by the Soviet army and the allies as well.
But, of course, also to show that they still have relations with the Kremlin and with the Russian president. And it was quite interesting because the Kremlin spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, he actually commented on the meeting that is taking place there in Kyiv with the European leaders just a couple of minutes ago.
He said he believes that the Europeans are nervous about May 9th and nervous about the activities that took place here yesterday, specifically the fact that so many leaders from foreign countries came here to Moscow to pay their respects, obviously to Russia.
But then also to hold bilateral meetings like the one that's going to happen very soon here in the Kremlin with Vladimir Putin, with the Russian president.
Of course, yesterday was also a very important one, because that solidarity that we've been seeing building up really over the past years between China and Russia was also very much on display with Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping sitting in the front row, both of them wearing those patriotic Russian black and orange ribbons.
And the Kremlin is saying, as you mentioned before, that Vladimir Putin wants an end to the war in Ukraine, wants a peace agreement. But as they say, there are still those nuances, as they put it, that need to be worked out.
[05:10:00]
I was talking to the Kremlin spokesman the day before yesterday and he told me that Russia's core national interest is not something that they are going to be willing to walk back from.
At the same time, of course, that ceasefire that we just heard president Trump in the lead-in speak about, that seems to be right now stalling and he talks about that, seem to be stalling at this moment as it seems as though progress very difficult.
The Russians saying they still have their points that they want to get through. And obviously, as you mentioned, the Europeans and also the Ukrainians saying they are willing and they're demanding a ceasefire for 30-days immediately. Right now, the Russians are saying they're not willing to do that at this point in time. Kim.
BRUNHUBER: Yes. And, Fred, I want to go back to that victory day parade because you were talking about sort of the message that Putin was sending the West but he was also sending an important message to Russians as well, in the context of this war in Ukraine.
Not sure if Fred is able to hear us there. So we'll thank Fred.
Fred Pleitgen in Moscow, appreciate having you there.
Donald Trump's special envoy to the Middle East, Steve Witkoff, is expected to attend a fourth round of nuclear talks with Iran this weekend. But he says, if the talks aren't productive, they won't continue and the U.S. will, quote, "have to take a different route."
The talks are scheduled to take place in Oman on Sunday. Witkoff told Breitbart News that Iran's uranium enrichment program is a red line for the U.S. But Iran says the program isn't negotiable. U.S. President Donald Trump is preparing to head to the Middle East
next week and sources say his administration is turning to his son-in- law for advice. Jared Kushner was the chief Middle East negotiator during Trump's first term.
Now he's advising administration officials on negotiations with Arab leaders, according to those sources. They say Trump's priority is to advance economic agreements. But privately, Kushner and others are reportedly hoping to expand the Abraham Accords, the treaties negotiated in Trump's first term.
They normalized Israel's relations with four Muslim countries in the region.
All sources tell CNN that president Trump is in talks to suspend a legal proceeding that's part of the Constitution. Ahead, we'll explain habeas corpus and how Trump's actions could affect every American.
Plus, a Philippine migrant says officials in the U.S. told him he was being deported, not home but to Libya. We'll have details after the break.
And later, what president Trump is saying about trade talks with China taking place this weekend. All those stories and more. Stay with us.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[05:15:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
BRUNHUBER: President Donald Trump is said to be considering whether to try to suspend habeas corpus. That's according to two people familiar with those talks.
Habeas corpus is part of the U.S. Constitution. It allows anyone who's in custody to force the government to explain in court why they've been detained.
Now this is the part the White House appears to be focused on, "The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended unless, when in cases of rebellion or invasion, the public safety may require it."
A suspension would allow the government to detain migrants and possibly anyone with no justification. Habeas corpus has been suspended four times in U.S. history: during the Civil War, during Reconstruction in South Carolina; after the war, during a rebellion in the Philippines when the U.S. controlled the islands and during World War II.
Now here's what White House deputy chief of staff told reporters on Friday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF: Well, the Constitution is clear and that, of course, is the supreme law of the land, that the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus can be suspended in a time of invasion. So I would say that's an option we're actively looking at.
Look, a lot of it depends on whether the courts do the right thing or not. At the end of the day, Congress passed a body of law, known as the Immigration and Nationality Act, which stripped Article III courts, that's the judicial branch, of jurisdiction over immigration cases.
So Congress actually passed, it's called jurisdiction-stripping legislation, it passed a number of laws that say that the Article III courts aren't even allowed to be involved in immigration cases.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: CNN's senior legal analyst Elie Honig says Miller's wrong about being able to suspend habeas corpus. Meanwhile, president Trump hasn't specifically mentioned suspending it in public but he has alluded to it. Here's what he said two weeks ago about court orders demanding that migrants get hearings before being deported.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: There are ways to mitigate it and there's some very strong ways. There's one way that's been used by three very highly-respected presidents but we hope we don't have to go that route.
But there is one way that's has been used very successfully by three presidents -- all highly-respected -- and hopefully we don't have to go that way. But there are ways of mitigating that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: An alleged deportation flight from the U.S. to Libya never took off. But according to a Philippine migrant, that was only after he and migrants from various other countries waited for hours, expecting to be taken out of the country. CNN's Priscilla Alvarez has more on the mystery flight and what's behind it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: An hours-long ordeal on Wednesday ended with an aborted flight to Libya. Now this, according to a migrant who spoke with his attorney after he himself had been waiting on this bus next to a military aircraft.
Now according to the account of this migrant, who is from the Philippines, he said that he had been woken up early on Wednesday at his detention facility in Texas.
He was then loaded on a bus with 12 other migrants of different nationalities and taken to what he described as a base and sat on that bus for hours with the other migrants next to a military aircraft before abruptly being turned around and returned to his detention facility, where he then spoke to his attorney to describe the event.
Now I spoke with that attorney, who said that his client had been expected to be deported to the Philippines in April because he does have a removal order but was surprised earlier this week when he was told by Immigration and Customs Enforcement that he would instead be deported to Libya.
Now this has sparked a scramble by attorneys to try to get some answers as to why migrants who may have removal orders to their native country are not just being sent there.
[05:20:03]
And were instead believed to be going on this flight to Libya. Now we have been tracking; that military plane indeed did not take off to Libya. Instead it went to Guantanamo Bay.
And that, according to a defense official who spoke with our colleague, Natasha Bertrand, it held only military personnel being repositioned to that island.
Now Libya has pushed back on any agreement with the United States, saying in a statement, quote, it "categorically denies any agreement or coordination with U.S. authorities regarding the deportation of migrants to Libya."
Of course, sources have told us that there have been hopes within the Trump administration to send migrants, including those who are not from there, to Libya as part of this push, this deportation push under this administration.
So still a lot of questions here but this is also part of an ongoing legal case, one where a federal judge earlier in the year had temporarily blocked the Trump administration from sending anyone to what are called third countries without notice and without an opportunity to contest.
So more to come on this, particularly as those legal proceedings continue. Back to you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BRUNHUBER: The mayor of Newark, New Jersey, Ras Baraka, has been released after his arrest by U.S. immigration agents. He was detained during a protest at the opening of a federal detention facility. That's him in the brown coat and black cap.
The Democratic mayor had attempted to join a New York-New Jersey congressional delegation seeking to inspect the facility. Baraka told CNN that he's been charged with federal trespass and said the arrest was humiliating.
Interim U.S. attorney for New Jersey, Alina Habba, posted that Baraka committed trespass, ignored warnings and willingly chose to disregard the law. Baraka disputes that characterization. Speaking to CNN, this is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR RAS BARAKA, NEWARK, NEW JERSEY: I came to attend the press conference as I was asked to. You know, obviously, I -- you know, ICE made -- after a while, made determination after somebody came and said that we shouldn't be there and began to -- after they told us to leave, we left and they began to arrest -- try to arrest me.
I shouldn't say us. They targeted me and came after me specifically and arrested me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: Witnesses say after federal agents had blocked his entry and they argued, Baraka retreated. He was released shortly afterwards on Friday evening.
A Turkish student arrested after writing a pro-Palestinian op-ed in the U.S. is free again. Rumeysa Ozturk walked out of a detention center in Louisiana on Friday, hours after a judge ordered her release on bail.
The Tufts University doctoral student was arrested by immigration agents in March as the White House launched a crackdown on international students who supported Palestinian causes. Ozturk was accused of supporting Hamas but prosecutors haven't shown a single piece of evidence to back that up.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
BRUNHUBER: The U.S. is admitting that its joint plan with Israel to deliver aid to Gaza will initially feed only 60 percent of the population. No food has entered the enclave in more than two months because of Israel's total blockade. And sources say any deliveries under the new plan are at least two weeks away.
The plan calls for using a private foundation and military contractors to prevent food from falling into the hands of Hamas. But people across Gaza are already going hungry and local aid workers say the situation is only getting worse.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HANI ABU AL-QASIM, HEAD, RAFAH COMMUNITY KITCHEN (through translator): Today we are living a bitter reality. Famine has become a fact, not just a fear. Gaza is on the edge of collapse. People are walking for miles to get this meal and, without it, they and their children have nothing to eat.
Today, the community kitchen itself is under threat of shutting due to the lack of food supplies caused by the occupation's policy of keeping the crossings closed for over 62 days. There are no food supplies. These families depend on us. As you can see, after distributing meals to hundreds of families, no
food is left yet people are still waiting, hoping, even though they know the food is gone. They can't go home without a meal.
Now Gaza is on the brink of mass death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: The United Nations has rejected the U.S.-Israeli plan, saying it's unfeasible and fails to meet Israel's obligations under international law.
The world's two largest economies have begun trade talks in Switzerland. When we come back, what officials are expecting to get out of the discussions.
Plus the warning from the CEO of the second largest shipping line in the world. We'll have that next here on CNN. Stay with us.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[05:25:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
BRUNHUBER (voice-over): Welcome back to CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Kim Brunhuber in Atlanta. Let's check today's top stories.
Pakistan's foreign minister says that, if India stops its military actions, then so will his country. Pakistan launched strikes against what it says are military targets in India and Indian-administered Kashmir in retaliation for Indian aggression.
India says one of the sites hit was a Hindu temple in Kashmir. It says at least one person was killed in the Pakistani strikes and Pakistan says at least 11 have been killed, including a child, in overnight Indian strikes along the line of control.
Leaders of the U.K., France and Germany are in Kyiv meeting with Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy. They're members of the so- called coalition of the willing, helping Ukraine stand up to Russia. Ahead of the meeting, they took part in this candle ceremony with President Zelenskyy.
Trade talks between the U.S. and China are now underway in Switzerland, according to Chinese state media. The White House says president Trump is very confident in his top trade officials, who are meeting with their Chinese counterparts in Switzerland this weekend.
Under president Trump, the U.S. Department of Education is cutting $1 billion from school mental health programs. The cuts affect thousands of health workers and students. The money was part of the bipartisan Safer Communities Act. It became law in 2022 after the Uvalde school shooting killed 19 students and two teachers. The Trump administration says the mental health funding wasn't
advancing administration priorities. A Department of Education official tells CNN that grant recipients used the funding to implement race-based actions like recruiting quotas in ways that have nothing to do with mental health.
Despite that claim, the cuts appear to affect anyone who received the grant money, regardless of diversity, equity and inclusion efforts.
[05:30:00]
Nancy Duchesneau is a senior P-12 research associate at EdTrust and she joins us now from here in Atlanta.
Thank you so much for being up with us early here. It's a really important topic. May is mental health awareness month. So it's a great time to talk about this issue, which broadly has bipartisan support.
So as I mentioned, these grants were created as a response to school shootings. Many Republicans are quick to blame these horrific mass shootings not on guns but on mental health issues.
So how does cutting these programs conflict, then, with the administration's goals of creating safer schools?
NANCY DUCHESNEAU, P-12 RESEARCH ASSOCIATE, EDTRUST: Thanks so much for having me.
Yes, so these mental health supports are really critical for creating safer schools.
Because we know that they're actually the most effective way to create a positive school climate, where students can build relationships with each other and learn how to handle conflict better and develop like a feeling of belonging and welcoming within their schools, which is actually what prevents violence in the first place.
And so by Trump's ignoring the bipartisan agreement and, like you said, again, this is bipartisan between Republicans and Democrats, there's some real concern around how this could actually create less safety within schools.
And it's also going to have really far reaching consequences for students well-being and their lives and academic outcomes for them as well.
And this is particularly true for, the students who are most vulnerable including students of color, students with disabilities, many youth who don't have access to mental health supports within their own communities, in low-income areas.
BRUNHUBER: Now as just important to point out that some of your research, I think shows that these sort of mental health measures do more to prevent school shootings than, say, hardening schools, is that right? DUCHESNEAU: That is exactly right. So when we think about violence within schools, it's actually the violence is the result of an escalation. It always starts with some sort of grievance or conflict and then it escalates. It escalates and escalates to the point of violence.
And so when we have police or metal detectors within schools, that's really targeting the end of that escalation; where, frankly, it's too late at that point because violence is already underway or planned. And what we really want to do is target before a conflict can become violence.
So that means really making sure that students have supports in handling conflict better with each other and building those relationships and repairing relationships when conflict occurs.
BRUNHUBER: Now some of the programs affected provide counseling to students who need help after the disruptions of COVID. But people argue the COVID emergency is over.
So why do students still need those programs?
DUCHESNEAU: Because the mental health crisis that youth have experienced since then is still underway. We can see it in the rising suicide rates for Black youth and for indigenous communities.
We see it in the increases in anxiety and depression. And we see it play out in ways within schools, particularly around behavior and around academic outcomes.
BRUNHUBER: Now these -- the cuts to these programs obviously will affect all types of students. But they are trying to at least target these sort of so-called DEI measures. But your research shows that students of color are likely less likely to have access to mental health supports in schools.
So how do these cuts make these existing problems worse?
DUCHESNEAU: Yes. So honestly it's really about making sure that the kids who need the most get the most support. It's about really efficiency and making sure that we are effective.
And so making sure that students of color who are more likely to experience the adverse effects of society's racism and bias and are more likely to experience poverty as well as other community violence issues. So really making sure that those who experience the most mental health crises are getting the most supports.
BRUNHUBER: Yes. Now the state of California is suing the Trump administration on this.
Are you hopeful that these cuts can be reversed?
And if not, what else can schools do?
Are there alternatives that actually work? DUCHESNEAU: Yes. So I am hopeful that that they'll be reversed. But let's be clear that this is a huge disruption for schools, even if it is reversed.
[05:35:00]
Even if the Trump administration tries to do something else around making sure that there's funding later on. At this point, schools really need the money to support students and they're not going to get it.
And so one thing that states can really do and really should do is to safeguard the funding for the students who need it the most, make sure that they are distributing funding to schools in a way where those who need the most get the most.
And then really being strategic about how the money is being spent within schools. So again, making sure that, for example, things like SROs or school resource officers, school police and metal detectors that aren't really effective, which take up a huge amount of funding are deprioritized.
And then the funding is redirected to the things that we know do work, like mental health supports.
BRUNHUBER: All right. Listen, I really appreciate you joining on the -- joining us on this important topic that affects so many children. Nancy Duchesneau, thank you so much.
DUCHESNEAU: Thank you so much for having me.
BRUNHUBER: U.S. President Donald Trump has named a FOX News personality to serve as one of the top prosecutors in the country. Jeanine Pirro is slated to become the interim U.S. attorney in Washington, D.C. President Trump confirmed the appointment Thursday.
Pirro has been a staunch defender of Trump and his policies, making her a favorite of the network's right-leaning fan base.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEANINE PIRRO, FOX NEWS PERSONALITY: You've got a guy who took care of the caliphate in, what, a few weeks, that was driving the world crazy. You've got the southern border, as you say so accurately, is now nobody's crossing the border.
When you start reading all the tea leaves, he's setting up the game. You got a president who's swinging for the fences. You've got a president who's punching.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: Pirro was a co-host on the FOX News program "The Five." According to a FOX spokesperson, her exit was effective immediately.
She replaces conservative activist Ed Martin, who faced backlash from some Republican lawmakers over his nomination.
All right. Stay with us. We'll be right back with much more here on CNN NEWSROOM.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[05:40:00]
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
BRUNHUBER: That's the name of the game here is low expectations. Take us through it.
MARC STEWART, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Kim. In fact, it was just about one hour ago that we received an alert from Chinese state media, that the talks were now officially underway in Geneva, Switzerland.
And among those attending, Chinese premier He Lifeng, as well as U.S. Commerce Secretary -- or I should say Secretary of the Treasury, Scott Bessent.
They are there for these talks, which, as you mentioned, from the U.S. side, has been described, you know, with very low expectations.
Something that we are observing from our spot here in Beijing is the fact that China is making it very clear this is happening only because of an invite, because of overtures made by the United States to have these conversations.
The United States had been sending a series of messages, a series of communications. And finally Beijing said, OK, it's time we will sit down and talk. Now do not expect for a wholesale agreement to come out of the next 48-72 hours. If anything, this is an opportunity for both sides to break the ice.
We heard some remarks by president Trump prior to the start of this that he would allow the Treasury Secretary to reduce those tariffs of 145 percent, down to 80 percent. I don't know if that's something that China will necessarily want to accept or digest.
In fact, if you talk to economists, for tariffs to have some kind of working possibility, they have to be cut down to 50 percent. So that's just something we are going to have to see.
But it is clear that China is prepared, to an extent, to wait in the long haul, to get a kind of agreement, to get a kind of deal that it wants. In fact, we've been seeing a lot of messaging in Chinese social media talking about the resiliency of the Chinese economy.
There was a video that was posted recently by the government on social media saying that China would not kneel down to the United States. We're also hearing messaging from government officials, talking about the fact that China is appealing to other world nations in an act of solidarity toward the United States or against the United States.
Talking about themes of protectionism and economic bullying and defending for international fairness and justice. The U.S. has also said that the war on fentanyl is going to be a big starting point, possibly, in these talks. But from the Chinese perspective, China has said it has done all it can do. And it's truly an American problem.
But no matter how long China would like to play hardball in all of this, Kim, it is going to have to have conversations because, like the American economy, the Chinese economy is dealing with economic struggles.
China says it's poised for the long haul. But the reality is, Kim, it's going to have to do some action because exports and other economic data is just not in China's favor at the moment.
BRUNHUBER: All right. Interesting. Marc Stewart in Beijing, I appreciate that.
Maersk, the second largest shipping line in the world, tells CNN that cargo volume between the U.S. and China has fallen by 30 percent to 40 percent compared to normal levels. The company's CEO is now calling for de-escalation between the two countries.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VINCENT CLERC, CEO, MAERSK: I'm also quite focused on the meeting that there will be this weekend between officials of the Trump administration and from the Chinese administration.
If we don't start to see a de-escalating, de-escalation of the situation with China, if we don't start to see more of those trade deals, then we could be in a situation where some of these effects get more entrenched and are more adverse and will weigh more on our results going forward. So something that we continue to monitor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: For more on all of this, I want to bring in Scott Kennedy, a senior advisor and trustee chair in Chinese business and economics at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. And he's joining us now from Falls Church, Virginia.
Really appreciate you making the time for us here. So first, before we get to the heart of the issue, just on the on the political theater that's going on, I asked a China expert this question last hour. I'm curious to hear the answer from a U.S. perspective. So both sides are claiming the other made the first move and asked for these talks.
Why does it matter in terms of public perception and the appearance of who might have the stronger hand in these negotiations?
SCOTT KENNEDY, SENIOR ADVISOR AND TRUSTEE CHAIR, CHINESE BUSINESS AND ECONOMICS, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: Sure. Certainly for the Chinese, their goal in these talks is to make sure that they look like the victim but also that they have a stronger hand.
And so as the world watches both sides, economies and their different actions.
[05:45:00]
They've seen the U.S. struggle, volatility in the U.S. economy, a whole lot of erratic actions from Washington. And so the Chinese want to make it look like they're the responsible party in this and that it's really up to Washington to pull back from the brink of a full-out economic war.
BRUNHUBER: Right. So unfortunately, you talk about a struggle but, worryingly for anyone who wants these to see an end to these tariffs on both sides quickly, you argue that is actually unlikely because, right now, neither side is feeling enough pain yet.
Is that right?
KENNEDY: Well, yes. U.S. stock markets have bounced around quite a bit. You've seen in congressional districts meetings with voters who are unhappy. But the U.S. economy is still relatively stable. And the Chinese economy, their exports to the U.S. have gone down but their exports to other places have gone up just as much.
They have a huge stimulus they've imposed to try and boost growth in this time. And both sides have still good relations with others. They haven't been isolated yet. Neither sides feeling significant enough pain yet to make the big concessions.
And the last time the U.S. and China negotiated like this five-plus years ago, it took almost two years to get that deal. And so we need to be ready for a very, very long negotiation, not just something that can be resolved in two days in a weekend.
BRUNHUBER: Yes, exactly. And part of the problem seems to be that the Trump administration's goals here seem all over the map. So explain that for us and how that's making it harder to come to any sort of consensus.
KENNEDY: Well, certainly the U.S. has a lot of complaints about China, which we've expressed for a couple of decades. But the specific things that the U.S. wants this time around aren't clear.
The president has talked about the bilateral trade deficit and the need to bring that down. But secretary Bessent and others have talked about Chinese industrial policy and the need for structural reform in China.
And adviser Peter Navarro, though, has said that the likelihood of any kind of deal that would help the U.S. is very unlikely. And so the U.S. and Chinese economies should decouple. And so without a very clear goal about what the U.S. wants, it's very hard for the Chinese to know what to give.
BRUNHUBER: Yes. And then in your talks with Chinese officials, I mean, they've told you the one thing they want, which turns out to be the one thing the Trump administration can't give them.
What is that?
KENNEDY: Sure. In a word, predictability. China knows that the tariffs are probably never going to go down to the very bottom, you know, most favored nation status, 3 percent. They'd like them turned down some. They'd like a little bit of reduction in the export controls.
But what they really wanted to have is predictability. And president Trump, that's not something that he typically offers to anyone. It's a negotiating tool for him. He also sometimes changes his mind. And so you may see a temporary pause on escalation.
But if you can't promise predictability and stability, it's going to be very hard to get the Chinese to make significant compromises.
BRUNHUBER: Yes, that's one among many huge barriers that they'll have to try and overcome. Really appreciate getting your analysis. Scott Kennedy in Virginia, thanks so much.
KENNEDY: Sure.
BRUNHUBER: Well, as Pope Leo XIV takes on leadership of the Catholic Church, many are looking to see if he'll continue the reforms made by Pope Francis. We'll have our report after the break. Please stay with us.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[05:50:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
BRUNHUBER: Newly elected Pope Leo XIV has a packed schedule in the coming days and weeks as the first U.S.-born pontiff for 1.4 billion Catholics around the world. Pope Leo is expected to continue the reforms of his predecessor, Pope Francis, as well as focusing on poverty and marginalized people. CNN's Ben Wedeman reports from Rome.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After the bells and smoke confirmed what the world had been waiting for, comes the first order of business.
Less than 17 hours after he was chosen, Pope Leo XIV, as he's known, returned to this frescoed sanctuary. Dressed in white and gold vestments to celebrate his first mass as pope with the same cardinals who chose him.
The first person from the U.S. elected pope, notably, did not speak English on Thursday's address. Friday was different. POPE LEO XIV, PONTIFF, ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH: I will sing a new song to the Lord because he has done marvelous. And indeed, not just with me but with all of us, my brother cardinals. As we celebrate this morning, I invite you to recognize the marvelous that the Lord has done.
WEDEMAN (voice-over): In a nod to his American roots, Leo opened in English before switching to Italian, urging the church to draw its strength from the holiness of its people, not the grandeur of its buildings.
He also spoke in Spanish, a language he used during his decades of work in Peru, a sign perhaps he will bring a global outlook to the papal scene.
WEDEMAN: Tourists and the faithful have been flocking to the area around the Vatican since the death of Pope Francis. And Thursday when they heard
the pronouncement, "Habemus Papam," Latin for "We have a pope," they exploded with joy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's -- our reputation is, you know, hit and miss with a lot of the world and maybe this will bring people to like America more.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's great. I also think that he's going to be very much like Pope Francis and he's going to be very modern, very open to
the people. And I think he's going to do the church a great deal.
WEDEMAN (voice-over): Pope Leo inherits his schedule packed with commitments, many of which were organized for his predecessor, Pope Francis.
[05:55:00]
This weekend, he leads his first Sunday mass in what's known as a Holy Year for the Catholic Church. Many will be waiting to see how he begins to shape his legacy -- Ben Wedeman, CNN, Rome.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BRUNHUBER: U.S. vice president JD Vance says the Catholic Church and the first American pope are much bigger than politics. Vance was baptized and became Catholic in 2019. On Friday, Vance urged people not to politicize Pope Leo. Here's what he told conservative radio host Hugh Hewitt.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I try not to play the politicization of the pope game. I'm sure he's going to say a lot of things that I love. I'm sure he'll say some things that I disagree with but I'll continue to pray for him and the church despite it all and through it all. And that will be the way that I handle it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: Well, before we go, a popular hot dog stand in Chicago mustered its best public relations knowhow when it realized how to link with Pope Leo XIV. The pontiff, after all, was born in the Windy City, so The Wieners Circle restaurant proudly displayed the Latin phrase, "for he has eaten our dogs."
The diner is known for its sassy service and late-night hours. Its manager, Evelyn Morris, has faith that hungry customers will relish the connection and buy even more frankfurters.
Couldn't possibly fit any more puns into that.
That wraps up this hour of CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Kim Brunhuber for viewers in North America. "CNN THIS MORNING" is next. For the rest of the world. It's "AFRICAN VOICES: CHANGEMAKERS."