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Explosion Near California Fertility Clinic; Full Audio Released Of Biden's Interview With Special Counsel; Interview With Rep. Adam Smith (D-WA); Supreme Court Blocks Trump From Using 1798 Law For Deportations; Trump To Walmart: "Eat The Tariffs"; Ukraine: Nine Killed When Russian Drone Hits Bus In Sumy Region. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired May 17, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:00:11]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM, I'm Jessica Dean in New York.

And we begin this hour with breaking news coming out of Palm Springs, California. The FBI is on scene there after an apparent explosion near a fertility clinic. We know at least one person has been killed. The Palm Springs mayor telling "The L.A. Times" a bomb went off inside a vehicle at or near that building.

Governor Gavin Newsom has been briefed on the situation. The doctor who runs that fertility clinic where the explosion occurred tells the Associated Press all of his staff are safe and accounted for.

And while the center's office space was damaged, we're told the IVF lab and all of the stored embryos there are unharmed.

CNN correspondent Josh Campbell is joining us now. He's a former FBI supervisory special agent. Also joining us, Jonathan Wackrow, CNN law enforcement analyst and former Secret Service agent. Good to have both of you here.

Josh, I just see you. I want to start first with you on this. We have a lot more information since you and I both talked. Now, knowing that this is a bomb and that at least one person is dead, how does that change this investigation?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, this is a critical new information, the Associated Press reporting that this is being investigated as a vehicle explosion.

As you mentioned, the mayor had described this as some type of bomb. You know, it's interesting those who have, you know, covered and investigated these types of things that could be somewhat of a loose term.

I would like to know more about what type of explosive devices were talking about here before any conclusions are actually drawn. But we do know, based on our reporting that the ATF, which obviously is very adept at investigating explosives and arsons and those types of things, they're currently on the way.

We know that the FBI has arrived as well. Within the FBI, you have teams of investigators, but you also have a special subset that referred to as a SABT, Special Agent Bomb Technicians. And nearly their entire job is to do this type of thing, to respond to explosions that could be incendiary in nature.

We know that FBI personnel are on the scene, you know, and having investigated these types of incidents within the FBI and now covered them in journalism, it doesn't take that long for investigators to get some type of sense of, you know, whether they believe that this could be accidental, or whether this was actually intentional.

Those forensic examiners, including FBI evidence response technicians, would be swabbing the area looking for any type of material that might match what they know to be explosives.

And if they do detect some type of explosive device, then that obviously changes the entire nature of the investigation. We know that the fire department obviously was first to arrive, along with local law enforcement there in Palm Springs investigating this.

We could expect that the local utilities are probably also being consulted, just to try to rule out any type of gas explosion. But a lot of work for investigators to do there, I don't expect that -- again, this is going to take some a long period of time before investigators get some sense of what they're dealing with.

But as you mentioned, we know at least one fatality according to the Associated Press. No information on that particular person.

And then the final thing I'll point out is that, you know, I've been talking to law enforcement sources who point out that this particular facility, when we talk about a reproductive facility, the first thing that might come to mind is, well, you know, this is some type of an abortion clinic.

Quite the contrary. What we're hearing from sources that it appears is this is more a fertility type clinic that actually helps people with fertility issues.

So again, a lot we don't know about why this happened or, you know, any potential motive if it was indeed intentional. But these are all data points investigators are looking at right now as they try to get to some type of conclusion about what happened, Jessica.

DEAN: Yes. And Josh, as you're talking, what we're looking at are live pictures from above of this whole area. And they were just zoomed in on what appears to be that fertility clinic on the front side. It now looks like we're looking at the backside of this area.

But what is so striking to me is just the -- how far this blast extended. You can see it's crossing essentially four lanes of traffic in the front where there's debris there. Then through that building and then there is more damage all the way to the back in this parking lot that we're seeing. Again, we're still learning exactly what kind of explosion this was, but that seems to be quite powerful.

CAMPBELL: No, certainly. I mean, these are critical images that we're looking at here. You know, I've spent a lot of time in Palm Springs for those who have been there. This is not an especially dense area like you would think of a large city.

You do have buildings that are kind of spread out around the downtown, obviously, you know, you have a larger number of people and facilities that are there.

[17:04:51]

CAMPBELL: But as you mentioned, we're looking at one, two, three, four, maybe five different separate buildings there that might have been impacted by whatever this was. And then certainly debris that is strewn about the entire street there.

You know, again, people like Jonathan and I who are in the business of security and trying to identify threats, one thing that that we always look at whenever there's some type of incident that is unexplained is what could have potentially been a target if it was indeed intentional.

And, you Know, in this age where you have, you know, warped minds that are trying to, you know, cause mass loss of life, are there other potential targets that may have gotten that same type of payoff for someone if that was indeed the case?

And again, this type of area doesn't appear to be the case. The one doctor that spoke to the Associated Press mentioned that there were not any patients that were there at the time that this actually occurred.

So again, a lot we don't know yet as investigators try to piece this together. One thing that they will be looking at, if this is indeed a vehicle type explosion, which the AP sources are telling them, trying to track that vehicle back, where did it come from?

We know, you know, going back all the way to, you know, the 1993 World Trade Center bombings. It involved a, you know, a rental truck. I think the nation, the world was made aware that on these vehicles they have what are stamped the VIN, Vehicle Identification Numbers. In that case key to trying to identify the origins of that vehicle.

We can expect -- we don't know what the condition of this vehicle might be in right now, but there are various different opportunities there for investigators to try to determine where it came from. Again, as they try to determine why this happened and who may have caused it, if it was indeed intentional.

DEAN: Certainly. And stay with us, Josh. I do want to bring in Jonathan now, who I believe is with us.

Jonathan, as we're looking at this live footage, as you join us. And I just want to go back to what we do know from the mayor of Palm Springs, who says that this is a bomb that damaged this fertility clinic that we're looking at here on the left side of your screen. And that it happened in or near a vehicle parked by the clinic.

So again, Jonathan, just getting your first reaction as we're looking at just incredible damage. Again, we know at least one person is dead. What is remarkable is that the doctor that runs this clinic told the AP all of his staff is accounted for and safe, and it was the office space that was damaged.

You also have to think about the many patients and the couples who want to become parents, and others who have spent a tremendous amount of time and personal effort and money and pain to make these embryos that are being stored there, those are also safe, we are told.

But Jonathan, just getting your first thoughts on this.

JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I think, you know, Josh really eloquently, you know, put all of the action steps that are -- that are going on right now together. Right now, what we're seeing is sort of this mosaic of law enforcement and public safety response to really identify, you know, was this -- was this clinic the target of this explosion? Was it the facility or was it somebody inside?

And then really, you know, we need to start looking at you know, who actually, you know, perpetrated this event. You know, when you break it down, you know, car bombs are rarely random. Any type of vehicle- borne improvised device is really just this hallmark of a high impact, high intent action.

And it really signals a couple of things to me. Premeditation, technical capabilities, and this intent to cause harm. And really, when you think about an explosion, it's less about the incendiary device, it's more about this over-pressurization.

So, Jessica, when you were talking about these images and looking at the devastation that was caused, most of that devastation was caused either by the over-pressurization that's caused by this explosion or potentially a reflective blast pressure.

But really, when we think about, you know, this is, you know, potentially a target of significance, this clinic, you know, could have been chosen for symbolic reasons.

Investigators right now are rapidly trying to assess any type of links to domestic extremist ideologies. They're combing social media and digital intelligence signals right now to see if anybody is talking about this, claiming responsibility for this type of attack.

And then they're talking to the witnesses. They're talking to the physician in charge of this facility, everybody that they can, to understand was this location targeted in the past? Has any anybody either received, you know, direct or indirect threats?

They're really trying to put all of these pieces together. So, you know, to Josh's point you know, a couple minutes ago, were going to start getting a lot of answers quickly once they identify the origin of the vehicle.

Start looking at, you know, this connection potentially to, you know, extremist ideologies. Was this a, you know, validate was this a targeted attack?

[17:09:45]

WACKROW: And if it was really assessing, you know, who you -- who took, you know, undertook this event by really looking at the means, opportunity and intent by various individuals that could cause this type of harm and destruction.

DEAN: And again, if you're just joining us, our breaking news is you are looking live at images out of Palm Springs, California where a bomb -- according to the mayor of Palm Springs, a bomb went off near a fertility clinic there in Palm Springs. That this happened in or near a vehicle that was parked near that fertility center.

Again, this is a place where people would go to try to get fertility treatments, to do IVF, to do IUI, things like that. That's what a fertility clinic does.

And so we are told by the doctor that runs that clinic that all of his staff is accounted for. But we do know, again, according to authorities, that there is one fatality.

Josh, as we're looking at this scene, which is big, it is pretty spread out. We talked about how significant the damage is to that building, but as this -- as this a photographer zooms out, you can see just how -- how much of a scene this is, how big the scene is.

What do you make of the posture? We know the FBI is there on scene, ATF. This is -- this is being taken obviously quite seriously. We saw the dogs out there sniffing around.

Tell us a little bit about what's going through all their minds right now.

CAMPBELL: Yes. You have various teams doing different things. Obviously, the central point of that explosion will be the focus for the forensic examiners, the bomb technicians and the like, again, to try to get some sense of whether their chemical testing, whether their canines that are out there that are specially trained to sniff for types of accelerants and the like, whether they pick up on anything.

But again, you look at this kind of larger perimeter there as the affiliate helicopter zooms out and then zooms in, that's all going to be subject to what's called a video canvass as well. And that's because one thing that, you know, if it does turn out that this was intentional, which again, you know, we stipulate we still don't know what the actual cause or motive or any of that was right now.

But investigators will try to determine whether this was something that happened in real time that was detonated by someone who he or she was actually impacted, you know, in the explosion.

For example, we saw, you know, on New Year's, there was a vehicle borne explosion in Las Vegas at a hotel where the person ended up dying in the process, or whether this was something that was timed, whether that -- if it turns out that this was indeed some type of explosive device, whether it was left behind by someone who then fled.

And so all of those businesses and facilities that you see around there will all be subject to a police canvass to try to gather any type of surveillance footage for as long as that may have existed, to determine whether they saw someone coming and going in that area you know, day or night to, you know, potentially plant something if that's the case.

So again, there's a lot of work that's, that's obviously going on behind the scenes. And as Jonathan mentioned, I mean, this is really a whole of government approach now. You have the local investigators that are there, public safety officials, the fire department, as well as the federal investigators who were also brought in.

And one thing I'll point out too, is you know, Jonathan and I were both federal agents. There's kind of this misnomer, I think, in Hollywood that, you know, when the feds come in, they take over an investigation. That rarely ever happens.

What happens is you have federal agencies like the ATF, the FBI bringing those specialized resources that the locals will welcome. And again, with an incident this widespread, with so many unanswered questions, you're going to have a lot of agencies trying to get those answers.

DEAN: Certainly. And again, just looking at this incredible debris and just the damage that was done.

Jonathan, we know that this happened around 11 a.m. local time. It's now 2:12 there in Palm Springs. In terms of other potential threats or anything else that could -- and we're also, if you see, again, we don't know exactly what we're looking at. It looks like it could be some sort of car or something, some sort of a heap of metal at this point that is certainly blown out.

I -- unclear exactly what role it's playing. But we certainly see it there on our screen.

But as authorities are going through what, what Josh just laid out, are they worried about, are they looking out for could this potentially happen anywhere else, any additional threats at this time?

WACKROW: No. So that's a really good point. What law enforcement is doing across the country -- so this isn't just a local issue across the country. Notification of this explosion has gone out, and other law enforcement entities are, you know, reassessing their own localities to see are there any signals out there of threats against any clinics within their remit?

They're working with, you know, local public safety officials to ensure that, you know, hey, making sure that there's no copycat attacks. So how do you try to prevent, you know, somebody from, you know, enacting this type of harm somewhere else?

So any type of intelligence that is gathered right now in the infancy of this investigation is being shared through law enforcement networks to ensure that this type of, you know, event, this type of critical event doesn't occur somewhere else.

[17:14:54]

WACKROW: But it goes back to the, you know, what's happening right now on the ground. And you know your point just a moment ago that, you know, we saw this big heap of metal, most likely that's the engine block, right? And that is the starting point when you -- when you really look at crime scene preservation, what investigators are doing right now both at the local and federal level, working in conjunction, they're really looking at crime scene preservation, ensuring that every item, that is what we see.

But you have to think about how Large this crime scene could be if this device that was, you know, that exploded, if that had any type of shrapnel on it or anything like that, you got to think, the, you know, the blast velocity that comes off of a, you know, a high order device can be up to 2,300 feet per second.

So you think about the distance that shrapnel went through that building, down the street, down the block. So there is a wide -- there's a wide, you know, area of, you know, preservation that needs to take place.

Once that is preserved, then they start the blast analysis and then they start the, you know, the surveillance and the retrieval of all of those -- all of those pieces to really start, you know, identifying items of evidentiary value.

And anything they garner from that is going to be disseminated out to law enforcement officials across the country as well, again, all with the aim of ensuring that there is no copycat attacks.

DEAN: Yes. And as you're talking, we're just looking at -- you're talking about how far away that shrapnel could go, the impact could be felt. And this is a building, you know, you can see kind of far away. It's not, you know, it's on the other side of this clinic, and it's still pretty damaged as well.

Ok, we're going to continue to keep our eyes on this. I do want to let you know we're getting another additional piece of information. The Associated Press now saying that two law enforcement officials briefed on this say it is being investigated as a possible car explosion.

Of course, that tracks with what we're hearing from the Palm Springs mayor, who says something very similar. So again, this is all breaking news coming out of Palm Springs as we monitor this bomb.

Again, according to the Palm Springs mayor, he's calling it a bomb that went off in or near a vehicle parked outside this fertility clinic.

And you are looking at live pictures of the debris and just an incredible perimeter all around this area, as now we have quite a law enforcement response, including the FBI, the ATF and local officials all there on scene trying to figure out exactly what happened and what the motive might have been. We know that there is at least one fatality.

We're going to continue to follow this. We're going to take a quick break. And we'll be right back.

[17:17:27]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: The full audio from then President Joe Biden's 2023 interviews with former special counsel Robert Hur is now public. And it's raising more questions for Democrats about the former president's mental capacity during his time in office.

The tapes, obtained and released by Axios, come from the now closed probe into Biden's handling of classified documents. The transcripts had already been made public, but it's the first time that you can hear them for yourself.

And at the time, the interviews prompted Hur to describe Biden as, quote, a sympathetic, well-meaning elderly man with a poor memory.

CNN correspondent Arlette Saenz is joining us now. Arlette, what do we get from that audio that we didn't quite get from just reading the transcripts?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Jess, the more than five hours of audio recordings really provide a more full picture of what former President Joe Bidens interview with special counsel Robert Hur was like in the fall of 2023.

Now, the transcripts were released, but Biden had actually asserted executive privilege to prevent the audio recordings from being released last May.

At the time, allies had been concerned that those audiotapes could potentially be politically damaging to the president.

Now, in these five hours of audio recordings, Biden at times is engaged with the lines of questioning coming his way. But there's other moments where he is speaking softly, slowly, haltingly, and also appears to fumble a few dates.

Here is one moment where Biden brought up his son, Beau Biden, when he had asked him a question on a different topic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT HUR, SPECIAL COUNSEL: Where did you keep papers that related to those things that you were actively working on? JOE BIDEN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I don't know.

This is what -- 20, 17, 18, that area?

HUR: Yes, sir.

BIDEN: Remember, in this time frame. My son is either been deployed or is dying. And -- and so it was --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now Biden's son, Beau Biden, passed away in 2015.

So a bit earlier than that time frame, Biden had started to reference there. A Biden spokesperson reacted to the release of these recordings, saying the transcripts were released by the Biden administration more than a year ago. The audio does nothing but confirm what is already public.

[17:24:52]

SAENZ: But this is all coming to light, as Biden's health, his physical and mental health have really come back into the spotlight.

As our colleague Jake Tapper and Axios reporter Alex Thompson are set to roll out this new book, which details some signs of decline in Biden's physical and mental health.

And it's also becoming an issue that many Democrats are facing questions about. We've already seen several potential 2028 contenders have to answer questions about whether they knew or saw signs of Biden's decline themselves. So this is certainly a topic that likely will continue to press on.

But it does come as democrats are eager to move past this 2024 election, eager to start focusing much more on Trump and not on the former president. But Republicans do continue to raise questions about whether voters can trust the Democratic Party after what had happened with Biden back in 2024.

DEAN: All right. Arlette Saenz, thank you so much live from Washington, D.C. this afternoon. We appreciate it.

And joining us now, Democratic Congressman Adam Smith of Washington state. Congressman, thank you so much for making time for us. We appreciate it.

I do want to ask you about, just in light of hearing what we just heard in these new audio clips, did you at the time have concerns or inklings of President Biden's deteriorating health last year.

REP. ADAM SMITH (D-WA): I didn't have much interaction with him personally. Hardly any at all. Look, I never for one second thought that Joe Biden heading up on 82 -- should run for a second term. I thought it was a mistake. I think it certainly has hurt the Democratic Party. I wasn't personally involved with much of that. Like I said, I didn't

have much interaction with the president. Look, 70 to 80 percent of the country said he shouldn't run for a second term.

I think it was a catastrophic mistake to have him run for a second term for as long as he did. And I think it's important for our party to be honest about that. And look at the set of circumstances that led to that situation.

And I was one of the first to call for the president to step aside after the debate. But there were many others who still insisted that he could go forward. I think this was a clear mistake by our party that we ought to acknowledge.

And part of being able to take on Donald Trump. And believe me, I am very concerned about what Trump is doing this country. But part of it is developing a Democratic Party brand that most of the country thinks is a reasonable alternative.

And we have to work on that aspect of this as well on a number of issues. Certainly Joe Biden being one of them.

DEAN: And look, the American people's trust in the democratic party is already at an all-time low. Are you concerned this makes rebuilding that trust even more difficult? And are you worried that the people who are standing by him saying, you know, he's totally fine? That that again harms the -- and makes it harder to rebuild that trust?

SMITH: Yes. I don't think this makes rebuilding that trust any more difficult. I think that's kind of already baked in. I mean, the story is coming back up, but it's not anything that we haven't seen many times before.

But it's partially that, it's partially some policies. And again, I really want to emphasize part of what we have to do is call out all the terrible stuff that Donald Trump is doing as he is trashing the Constitution and the rule of law and all manner of different ways. His tariff policy is damaging the economy. He wants to cut Medicaid, to pay for tax cuts for the rich. I'll say that all day long.

I think the Democratic Party needs to address our shortcomings as well. And that includes what is our border security policy? What is our economic policy? How are we going to handle identity politics and things like approaching racism and bigotry going forward?

I think we should build an agenda that recognizes how the American people feel about us. I mean, ignoring that 75 percent of the country didn't think joe Biden should run again, clearly was not a smart decision.

DEAN: I do want to get your thoughts on Ukraine and some developments on the war in Ukraine, with President Trump saying he plans to hold a phone call with Putin on Monday.

Do you think that's a good decision? Are you confident that they can reach some sort of ceasefire deal with Russia and Ukraine? SMITH: Yes, two different questions. One, yes, I think it's a good

decision. And the president may as well get involved.

No, I'm not terribly confident. Look, President Trump made a terrible mistake at the start of his administration. And that is he basically gave Putin a green light in Ukraine. He attacked Zelenskyy. I mean, we had the embarrassing situation where we vetoed a resolution in the U.N. that would have condemned the invasion. We briefly pulled aid from Ukraine.

Everything that President Trump and Vice President Vance have been saying has indicated that were getting ready to bail on Ukraine, so Putin had no incentive to try and stop his war.

Now, belatedly, the president seems to have recognized that. I mean, it's like he gave Putin a green light to keep going in Ukraine. And now that Putin is halfway through the intersection, he's like maybe we shouldn't have done that.

I hope that we will begin to stand up for Ukraine and put the pressure on Putin that we need to that could force a settlement.

[17:29:48]

SMITH: But the president's got to make it clear that we're not bailing on Ukraine.

And Ukraine has a right to be a sovereign, democratic country. And we will continue to support the 53-nation coalition, which the Biden administration put together, by the way, that has helped Ukraine survive thus far. That is what will force Putin to the bargaining table.

[17:30:06]

DEAN: All right, more to come on this. Congressman Adam Smith, we appreciate your time. Thank you.

SMITH: Thanks so much Jess.

DEAN: The Supreme Court hands the Trump administration a setback in its fight to deport undocumented immigrants. That's next.

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DEAN: The Supreme Court handing the Trump administration a major setback, ruling it cannot restart the Alien Enemies Act to deport a group of Venezuelan migrants in Texas.

Now, this is a significant loss for President Trump, who wants to use the 1798 law to speed up deportations and avoid the kind of judicial review normally required before removing people from the country. CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig is joining us now. Elie, good to see you. Tell us more about this ruling and what it means.

[17:35:09] ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Jess, this is now the third time the U.S. Supreme Court has weighed in on this issue. It started in early April, where the Supreme Court said we're not going to rule right now on whether it's legal to use the Alien Enemies Act in this way, but we are going to say that potential deportees do have some due process right. They do have the ability to challenge their deportation, and the federal government has to give them enough advance notice that they can realistically exercise those due process rights.

Now, yesterday was the second time the Supreme Court has jumped in really on an emergency basis to say, while these issues are playing out, you, the administration, are not to deport people. The Supreme Court, the seven justices in the majority, all except for Thomas and Alito, essentially said we don't trust you, administration. You flew an airplane out during one of the hearings. You're not giving people enough notice, and we don't want another situation.

They explicitly referenced Kilmar Abrego Garcia, where someone gets accidentally deported, and then we're told, well, he's out of our hands now, nothing we can do. So for now, these deportations are on hold.

DEAN: And so is the ruling, they're on hold, that does leave an opening then for the Trump administration or no?

HONIG: It does, potentially down the line. So the big question is, does the Alien Enemies Act apply here? Now, this is a law that goes back to 1798, signed by John Adams, and it says that non-citizens can be deported if there is an invasion or a predatory incursion.

The Trump administration says the presence of this gang, Tren de Aragua, is essentially an invasion, a foreign incursion on this country. Now, one district court judge in Texas, that's a Trump- appointed district judge named Judge Rodriguez, rejected that.

He said, this is not what the law means by an invasion or an incursion. But the case still is pending in other districts. It has to make its way up through the federal courts of appeals. I think, and I think the Supreme Court signaled yesterday, it will end up back at the U.S. Supreme Court, and they will then rule, are these deportations legal under the Alien Enemies Act or not?

DEAN: I do want to ask you about something else. Former FBI Director James Comey was just interviewed by the Secret Service about a controversial media post from him, just seashells on the beach spelling out 86, 47. Republicans insisting this is a call for violence against the President. This is what the President said about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He knew exactly what that meant. A child knows what that meant. If you're the FBI director and you don't know what that meant, that meant assassination. And it says it loud and clear. And he's calling for the assassination of the president. (END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: So he -- Comey now being interviewed by the Secret Service, just to mention, there is merchandise, like T -- T-shirts that say 86, 46, that would be Biden's number, 46, on -- for sale on sites including Amazon and eBay. Legally, is this a double standard? What kind of legal trouble is Comey facing here?

HONIG: This is stupid, reckless, irresponsible behavior by James Comey, but it's not going to be a crime. He's not going to get charged. If he does get charged, he will never be convicted. This was a ridiculous thing for him to post. He does know better. But in order to be a chargeable federal crime of making a threat against the president, A, it has to be much more specific than this.

As you just showed, that term 86 can mean different things. It can mean throw something out. It can mean get rid of something. It can mean kill, but it can mean different things. And the Supreme Court recently raised the bar. They said not only does it have to be specific in order to be a threat, but the person who's making the threat has to subjectively, in their own mind, intend for it to be a threat. I don't think that's the case.

I think it's pretty clear with Jim Comey. I think it's something that was -- was, you know, beneath what he should have done and a big mistake. And he should be humiliated for what he did. But it's not a criminal charge here.

DEAN: All right. Elie Honig, as always, thanks so much. We appreciate it.

HONIG: Thanks, Jess.

[17:39:06]

DEAN: Still ahead, the President has some strong words for one of America's biggest store chains. Eat the tariffs.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: We are following this breaking news out of Palm Springs, California, where the FBI is on scene after an apparent explosion near a fertility clinic. We know at least one person has been killed. The Palm Springs mayor is telling the "L.A. Times" a bomb went off inside a vehicle or near the building, in or near the building. Staying -- please stay with CNN for the very latest on this. We're going to continue to bring you breaking news updates on this.

In the meantime, tonight, President Trump is sending one of America's biggest retailers a warning, telling Walmart it should, quote, eat tariffs and not raise prices on its consumers. That post coming in response to the company's CEO announcing it has no option but to raise prices due to the President's tariffs on China. And joining us now, Jack Buffington. He's a professor of supply chain management at the University of Denver. Jack, you are the perfect person to talk to about all of this. Let's just start first with, is it possible financially for Walmart and these other companies to absorb the cost of these tariffs?

JACK BUFFINGTON, PROFESSOR OF SUPPLY CHAIN MANAGEMENT, UNIV. OF DENVER: Hi, Jessica. As someone who used to work for one of Walmart's suppliers, I know how hard they work to keep prices down. So let me give you a little math here. So the tariffs that -- so first off, about a third of Walmart's products are subject to tariffs. Tariffs used to be about 1 percent. On -- on the average of all the countries, it's probably going to go up to about 10 to 15 percent.

[17:45:22]

Their net profit margin is less than 3 percent. So if they eat these tariffs, they will actually lose money. So Walmart will figure it out. Companies like Amazon will figure it out. Some of those other retailers that are really going to struggle. But even a giant, an efficient giant like Walmart has a very difficult time absorbing these tariffs.

DEAN: Yes. And we've gotten new data from the University of Michigan, their survey on consumer sentiment. It's now at the second lowest point on record for the month of April. Were you surprised by this?

BUFFINGTON: I don't think I was very surprised by that. Just a couple of weeks before, the consumer price index came down low, which was seen as good news. But I see it as the softening of consumer demand. And I think all the uncertainty that's happening in the supply chain, and we -- we also need to understand that a lot of people are not just consumers in the supply chain. They're also workers in the supply chain. And this is leading to some uncertainty that is softening consumer demand.

DEAN: I also want to ask you about the fact that we've seen these ports all along the West Coast looking pretty empty after China halted all its shipping to the U.S. So is -- is big retailers like Walmart that's already dealing with just like the financial impact of tariffs, now you actually have the physical impact about the merchandise, but also these smaller businesses, so many small businesses that make up the United States economy. What does it mean for -- for both of these types of retailers?

BUFFINGTON: Yes, first off, just to mention what's going on in the ports, as you may recall, in April, there was a surge of all the -- the ports, the containers going through the ports. And then in May, it -- it goes back down, you know, negative 35 percent. And now it's going to surge back up again in June, because the third quarter is peak season for all the holidays.

So what's happening in supply chains when you have this up and down is you lose capacity and you lose efficiency, which means the ports can ship less at higher prices. And, you know, you mentioned Walmart, companies like that are going to do just fine. It's the small guys that are really experiencing challenge of getting product supply and the prices that they're going to be able to offer their consumers. So again, I think in these circumstances, the big guys are going to be able to compete. It's the small guys that are going to be punished.

DEAN: All right. We will see how this continues to play out. But -- but thank you so much for walking us through some of that, Jack. Jack Buffington, we appreciate it.

BUFFINGTON: Thank you.

DEAN: Just days after Russia and Ukraine agreed to swap a thousand prisoners, President Trump is getting in in the mix. He's about to hold his first call with Putin in months. You're in the CNN Newsroom.

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[17:52:37]

DEAN: President Trump is set to speak on the phone Monday with Russian President Vladimir Putin. Now this is a conversation Trump says will be aimed at ending what he describes as the bloodbath in Ukraine.

And it will come days after representatives from Ukraine and Russia met in Turkey for the first direct talks in three years and as Russia continues to launch strikes into Ukraine. Ukrainian officials say at least nine people were killed Saturday in a Russian drone attack on a bus in northern Sumy region, in the northern Sumy region. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh has more now.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: This Russian drone strike clearly on a civilian minibus, not far from the Russian border in Sumy region, claiming at least nine lives. And President Zelenskyy referring to how amongst the dead were a mother, a father, and a daughter. Separately, local officials putting names to this growing toll of civilians from the daily Russian barrage against Ukraine.

Ihor and Elena Yevtushenko, a railway worker and a teacher among the dead there. And this, I think, coming to as we hear more from the Kremlin about their conditions for future diplomacy. There were, I think it's fair to say, slim results from the talks in Istanbul on Friday. A large prisoner swap agreed, certainly.

But Dmitry Peskov, the Kremlin spokesperson, saying that there would have to be certain processes, conditions met for a meeting between Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and Russian President Vladimir Putin. Zelenskyy's offered that meeting pretty much unconditionally on Thursday and it was rejected by the Kremlin.

Peskov went on to say, too, that they would soon exchange documents about conditions for a potential ceasefire. That's not an unconditional ceasefire, just to explain here that's been demanded by the United States, Europe and Ukraine. And also, too, Peskov going back to an old Kremlin talking point and saying that the -- the validity of any future peace agreements would be dependent on who the Ukrainian signatory to those documents was.

And that is another way of Russia trying to raise again their belief, their claim that Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is somehow illegitimate, despite the fact he won a legitimate election in 2019 and still has high opinion poll ratings during a wartime martial law here where you can't hold a vote under Ukrainian law.

The issue now, where this sits with the White House. European leaders and Zelenskyy sat around a telephone talking to U.S. President Donald Trump, presumably updating him on the slim results from the Istanbul talks. Trump, though, keen for a bilateral meeting and appears to think that no progress can occur until those two leaders meet, really throwing the timing and the scheduling and the casting of this peace process back towards the Kremlin for them to dictate it and potentially buying Russia yet more time.

[17:55:24]

Many say here for the weather to improve, the ground to harden to enable them to launch a significant summer offensive.

Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Kyiv, Ukraine.

DEAN: Nick, thank you.

We are continuing to follow the breaking news out of Palm Springs, California. One person is dead after an explosion damaged, heavily damaged a fertility clinic. Authorities are trying to find the cause here. You're in the CNN Newsroom.

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