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Two Israeli Embassy Staff Killed Outside a Washington D.C. Museum; House Continues to Debate the Big Beautiful Bill, Moves to Plenary Voting; Trump Ambushes South African President at the White House. Aired 3-4a ET

Aired May 22, 2025 - 03:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[03:00:00]

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UNKNOWN (voice-over): This is CNN Breaking News.

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us here in the United States and all around the world. I'm Rosemary Church.

We are following breaking news out of Washington, D.C., where two staffers from the Israeli embassy have been shot and killed outside an event at the Capital Jewish Museum. The Israeli ambassador to the U.S. says the victims were a young couple about to be engaged.

(VIDEO PLAYING)

Police say the suspect is in custody. An eyewitness told CNN the man pretended to be a witness to the shooting and waited for police to arrive before claiming he did it for Gaza. Police have identified him as 30-year-old Elias Rodriguez from Chicago.

Here's what D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser told reporters at a news conference earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR MURIEL BOWSER (D), WASHINGTON, D.C.: There is no active threat in our community. What I do know is that the horrific incident is going to frighten a lot of people in our city and in our country. And I want to be clear that we will not tolerate this violence or hate in our city.

We will not tolerate any acts of terrorism, and we're going to stand together as a community in the coming days and weeks to send the clear message that we will not tolerate anti-Semitism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says he is shocked by the horrific anti-Semitic murders in the U.S. and says he has instructed that security arrangements at Israeli missions worldwide be reinforced.

President Trump posted his condolences to the victims' families on social media. He says the killings are, quote, "obviously based on anti-Semitism, which must end now."

The Israeli ambassador to the U.S. spoke about the young couple killed, saying they were planning a future together.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YECHIEL LEITER, ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: A couple that was gunned down tonight in the name of free Palestine. It's a young couple about to be engaged. The young man purchased a ring this week with the intention of proposing to his girlfriend next week in Jerusalem.

They were a beautiful couple who came to enjoy an evening in Washington's Cultural Center.

I will say this. We are a resilient people. The people of Israel are resilient people, and the people of the United States of America are resilient people.

Together we won't be afraid. Together we'll stand. And we're going to overcome moral depravity of people who think that they're going to achieve political gains through murder.

On the way in, Ms. Bondi was kind enough to hand me the phone. On the other line was the President of the United States, Donald Trump. He told me that his administration is going to do everything it can possibly do to fight and end anti-Semitism and the hatred that's being directed, the demonization and delegitimization of the state of Israel.

Together with President Trump, our Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, we'll stand. We'll stand together tall and firm, and we will confront this moral depravity without fear and with determination. And now we'll turn to taking care of the families of these two victims.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: We're told the ambassador was not at the location of the shooting when it happened.

CNN's senior U.S. justice correspondent, Evan Perez, was at that press conference in Washington earlier, and he explained what information investigators are looking for right now.

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EVAN PEREZ, CNN SR. U.S. JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (on the phone): Statements that the police said he made after he was detained there at the scene, which was free, free Gaza, and according to another witness, for Gaza, those are the statements that he said obviously are going to be key parts of this, because it gives at least an indication of perhaps his motivation. [03:05:00]

Look, this event happened. This was an event that was scheduled from 6:30 to 9 p.m., so this happened shortly after the event was finished.

And according to the police, he was pacing back and forth, so he was laying in wait. He was waiting for the event to be over.

And one of the things that I found interesting was if you look at the event listing on their website for the AJC, they were hosting this event at the museum. It doesn't give a location. It said the location is provided after registration, meaning that the only way you knew that this event was happening there tonight was if you registered.

Now, obviously, there's other ways perhaps that the information could have come to the suspect. So those are things that the police are going to be certainly focusing on.

How did he know that this event was happening there? It wasn't widely advertised that it was there, it appears. And also they say he's from Chicago. What ties does he have to D.C.? Did he travel here specifically to carry out this crime?

And, of course, the fact that he fired shots at these two people, and then the other two people appear to not have been injured, and then he entered.

He entered the museum where he possibly could have carried out more killing, I suppose, based on whether he had more bullets or not, we don't know. But certainly that's going to be all part of this investigation, right, to establish the motivation.

Obviously, they're looking at the terrorism angle. They want to see whether he has any connection with an international or a sanctioned group, any terrorist organization that sponsored this, or whether he was doing this on his own.

So, you know, this raises a lot of fear in the community for Jewish citizens and also for Muslim citizens because, you know, what we know is from when things like this happen is that there's sometimes copycats or people who try to do reactions. And so the police are going to be very, very concerned about making sure that this doesn't turn into something more than what it already is, which is horrific.

This happened literally across the street from the Washington field office for the FBI. There are cameras everywhere here. There's courts, all the federal courts, the local city courts are all right here in just these few blocks, the Metropolitan Police is like a block away.

And, of course, Congress is just a very short walk, about a five- minute walk from here. So for all of those reasons, you know, there's a lot of police presence here. The Georgetown Law School is right another block away.

So there's a lot of police here. And so to do this in a place that is so protected is really brazen. And that's what I think, you know, it goes to show you, you know, if you can put all the security you want, but if someone wants to do something terrible like this, it is still possible.

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CHURCH: We go to Tel Aviv now in Israel and Yossi Melman, who is a writer, journalist and the co-author of "Spies Against Armageddon." Thank you, sir, for joining us.

YOSSI MELMAN, ISRAELI WRITER AND JOURNALIST: Thank you, Rosemary.

CHURCH: And I do want to start by getting your reaction to this horrifying and deadly shooting in D.C. of two Israeli embassy staffers. What are your thoughts right now?

MELMAN: Well, first of all, it's Israel and Israelis and Jews around the world were targeted for many, many years, first by Palestinian terrorist organizations, then by Iranians, and more lately through demonstrations and sometimes acts of violence after the beginning of outbreak of the war in Gaza, which is very rare that most of the incidents took place in Europe, outside the United States.

As far as I can recall, it's the second murder, killing, assassination of an Israeli diplomat in the last 52 years since 1973, when the Israeli military attache, Joel Alon, was gunned down near his home not far from here in Washington, D.C.

CHURCH: And according to an eyewitness account, the D.C. shooter pretended to be a witness, and waited for police to arrive before claiming he did it for Gaza. And police say he shouted, free Palestine, while in custody. What does all this reveal to you? What do you make of that?

MELMAN: Well, first of all, if (inaudible) shout out, free Palestine, it means that his motivation was on the backdrop of the war in Gaza and the accusations against the Israeli military of atrocities in Gaza, killing civilians.

[03:10:02]

Secondly, it would be interesting to know if he really targeted this couple and the Israeli staffer, embassy staffer, or it was just a random that he waited outside the event and decided to kill anyone, assuming that it's a Jewish event. So that would be up to the investigation, which I assume is now conducted by the local police in Washington, by the FBI, in coordination and collaboration with the Israeli security services, the Shin Bet.

One has to emphasize also that Israeli diplomats or staffer, Israeli embassy staffers, or anyone in official capacity cannot be protected by the Israeli domestic security service, because, I mean, due to lack of manpower, but above all because it's the duty and responsibility of the local law enforcement agency. So, I mean, Israelis are taking cautious measures. The security officer at the embassy is giving precise instructions. And as your reporter said, the event was not announced and was not defined as a Jewish event. And yet the killer knew where to wait and when to wait. So it's up to the investigation to find out about his background, whether he was a lone wolf or part of a much larger organization, and that he was sent to the mission by someone, his operator, or he acted on his own.

CHURCH: And Yossi, on that, what additional questions do you want to answer in the wake of this horrifying and deadly shooting? And how can attacks like this be stopped, do you think?

MELMAN: Certainly, security around Jewish buildings, Jewish sites would be beefed up. Already all these Jewish sites, synagogues, community centers are protected, defended by security guards who are hired by the organizers, by the owners of the site. And this is done in coordination and cooperation with the FBI and with the local police.

So I doubt to what extent you can accelerate the security measures against Jewish institutes in the United States, but certainly there will be an effort to do it.

CHURCH: Yossi Melman, thank you so much. We appreciate you joining us.

MELMAN: Thank you, Rosemary.

CHURCH: We're also keeping a close watch on Capitol Hill. The House Rules Committee has voted to move Donald Trump's Big, Beautiful Bill to the House floor for a vote.

House Republicans have been feverishly working on changes to the legislation which the President needs in order to make good on his campaign promises. But infighting within the party slowed its approval.

New changes were announced late Wednesday to appeal to hardliners. Those changes include removing a tax on gun silencers, adding work requirements to Medicaid by the end of 2026, among others.

But Americans appear to be feeling anxious when it comes to the budget deficit and the U.S. stock markets show it.

Well dozens of aid trucks finally crossed into Gaza, but the U.N. warns it's not nearly enough to stop a worsening humanitarian crisis. We'll have details on that just ahead. Stay with us.

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[03:15:00]

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CHURCH: A check on our breaking news. Two Israeli embassy staff members were fatally shot in Washington, D.C., outside a Jewish museum on Wednesday. A witness told CNN that the gunman who allegedly killed the young

couple waited for police to arrive before claiming he did it, quote, "for Gaza." Police say he also shouted, free Palestine, he's been identified as 30-year-old Elias Rodriguez from Chicago.

The Israeli ambassador to the U.S. says the victims were about to be engaged. President Trump called the attack anti-Semitic and wrote online, hatred and radicalism have no place in the U.S.A.

Trucks loaded with humanitarian aid have finally started delivering food and supplies to Gaza after more than 11 weeks. Still, the United Nations is warning that this is nowhere near enough.

More than 90 trucks carrying flour, food and baby supplies have begun distributing aid into southern Gaza. This marks the first time any supplies have entered the enclave since Israel imposed a complete blockade in March.

The trucks headed to distribution points after entering Gaza through the Kerem Shalom crossing late Wednesday. A U.N. World Food Program spokesperson said its food supplies will be taken to Gaza's bakeries.

[03:20:00]

And CNN's Paula Hancocks joins me now with more. So Paula, let's start with the deadly shooting in D.C. of those two Israeli embassy staffers. What has been the reaction so far from Israel?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Rosemary, what we're seeing is a definite sense of unity among Israeli officials from all sides of the political spectrum, all condemning this attack in D.C. and all describing it as anti-Semitism.

Now we've heard from the Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. He spoke to the Israeli ambassador to the United States and expressed his support for the staff of the embassy as well. He has had a briefing and an update from the U.S. attorney.

Now he did say, we are witnessing the terrible cost of anti-Semitism, pointing out that he had ordered the security at Israeli missions around the world to be reinforced.

Now we heard similar sentiments from Israel's President Herzog, saying that he is devastated and that this is a despicable act of hatred and of anti-Semitism. Also from the Foreign Minister Gideon Saar, saying Israel will not surrender to terrorism.

We did also hear from the Israeli ambassador to the United Nations Danny Danon, and he said that it is an attack on Israel, it's an attack on the Jewish community, but also said that it is an attack against the U.S. itself, calling on world leaders to do more to stop what he called anti-Semitic hate crimes. Rosemary?

CHURCH: And, Paula, humanitarian aid trucks are now moving into Gaza after more than 11 weeks of an aid blockade. What's the latest on this? HANCOCKS: Well, what we've heard from the U.N. is that this is nowhere

near enough to stem the humanitarian crisis that we are seeing in Gaza, but we are finally seeing trucks crossing the Kerem Shalom area into Gaza itself.

Now, according to the Israeli side, they say that five trucks on Monday, 93 on Tuesday, 100 trucks on Wednesday entered Gaza. We've heard from the U.N. that some 500 are needed daily to sustain the population there, but it's unclear exactly how many have reached the people themselves. We know, as you said, and we have footage showing that many of the trucks that were carrying flour have been distributing that flour to bakeries so that they can work immediately to try and use that flour to feed people in the vicinity of those bakeries.

But we also know from humanitarian officials that some of the routes that Israel had approved to be able to get to different parts of Gaza were simply too dangerous. They say that after 11 weeks of no food, no water, no medical supplies getting into the Gaza Strip, the level of desperation is so high that the risk of looting is extremely high.

So they are working, we understand, from those humanitarian aid groups with Israeli officials to try and have the military allow other routes to get to where this food is needed. But we are finally seeing some food, as you say, some baby supplies as well, getting into Gaza where well over 2 million people desperately need this food.

Now, it's unclear at this point how many will be getting in today and how many are still on the Gaza side of the Kerem Shalom border crossing. We're asking for clarification on that.

But of course it's not just getting the food into the Gaza Strip itself, it's then safely distributing it to those who so desperately need it. Rosemary?

CHURCH: Paula Hancocks in Abu Dhabi. Many thanks for that live report. I appreciate it.

And we have more on the deadly shooting of two Israeli embassy staff members in Washington including new details on the suspect who is now in custody. That's just ahead.

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[03:25:00]

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CHURCH: Welcome back to "CNN Newsroom." I'm Rosemary Church. I want to check today's top stories for you.

Police have a suspect in custody in the shooting deaths of two Israeli embassy staffers in Washington. Officials say the young couple, soon to be engaged, were gunned down outside the Capital Jewish Museum after an event there late Wednesday. The suspect chanted, free Palestine once he was detained. Aid trucks have begun delivering food and supplies to Gaza for the first time since Israel imposed a blockade in March.

[03:30:03]

More than 90 trucks entered the enclave carrying flour, food and baby supplements. Still, the U.N. is warning that this is nowhere near enough.

During a meeting with South Africa's President, U.S. President Donald Trump repeated false claims about white South Africans allegedly being subjected to genocide. Cyril Ramaphosa tried to explain the complicated reality of South Africa's land policy and troubles with violence. He later said they were able to have in-depth talks on trade and other issues.

Returning to our breaking news now. And police say two Israeli embassy staffers have been killed in a shooting near the Capital Jewish Museum in Washington.

Authorities say a suspect is in custody. He'd been seen pacing outside the museum before the attack. The D.C. police chief offered more details at a news conference just hours ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF PAMELA A. SMITH, D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT: The suspect chanted, free Palestine while in custody. The suspect has been tentatively identified as 30-year-old Elias Rodriguez of Chicago, Illinois. Our NPD case detectives are leading this investigation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: A witness to the shooting described those scary moments to CNN earlier. Paige Siegel had been attending the event at the Capital Jewish Museum and wound up asking the suspected government if he was okay before learning who he was.

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PAIGE SIEGEL, WITNESSED SHOOTING (on the phone): The event was a panel about Israeli organizations, multi-faith organizations and Palestinian organizations working together to get people in Gaza the aid they need and not fall into the hands of Hamas.

The event was ending and I hear a batch of gunshots and then a pause and then another batch of gunshots. And I walk to the front door to notify that the security should lock all the doors because the gunshots were so close.

And as I'm doing that, a man runs into the front door acting as if he's escaping the gunshots from the street himself. He runs in and he seems so flustered and so out of whack. So I go up to him and I say, are you okay? And he's muttering, call the police, call the police.

And he goes, yes, I'm okay. I said, were you shot? And he goes, no, I was not shot. Call the police, call the police.

And where the museum is, the FBI is right next door. The police are close by. So the police sirens have already started.

And he's sitting on a bench amongst us for 15 minutes until he comes up to me again with two of my other friends. And one of them has helped organize the event. And she offers him a glass of water just because he seems so off and he takes it, he drinks it.

And I say to him, I'm surprised they let you in because, I mean, you just ran to the door and this is an event. They had our names, we had to register, they had to do a security check. We get winded (ph) at the front.

You just ran right in. I say, do you know where you are? He doesn't say anything. And I say, you're at a Jewish museum.

And immediately he takes a few steps back and he starts yelling, I did it, I did it, talking about shooting and killing the innocent people outside who had just attended the event, who had just left.

And he's screaming, I did it, I did it, I did it for Gaza, I did it for Palestine. Free Palestine, free Palestine.

And I'm yelling in the background, get him out, get him out, because he's opening up a backpack. And in that moment, a second feels like an hour. I feel like we're all about to die.

And he takes out a red and white Jordanian keffiyeh and just continues chanting. And I think people don't realize that senselessly killing people who have just attended an event, the Jewish museum, is what Hamas supporters mean when they yell, globalize the intifada.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: For more on the shooting, I want to bring in Glenn Schoen. He's a security management consultant and an expert on security and terrorism. Appreciate you joining us.

GLENN SCHOEN, SECURITY MANAGEMENT CONSULTANT, AND SECURITY AND TERRORISM EXPERT: Thank you.

CHURCH: So let's start by what we know so far. According to an eyewitness account, the D.C. shooter pretended to be a witness at first and waited for police to arrive before claiming he did it for Gaza and police say he shouted free Palestine while in custody. So what stands out to you as you learn more details about this deadly and horrifying shooting?

[03:34:56]

SCHOEN: Well, I think two things. One is it indicates it's rather an amateur effort, which, however, tragic, of course, the incident is sort of good news in the sense that there's not a larger structured plan being executed right now that means that there's immediately more incidents imminent or a new group has formed, for instance, within the U.S.

It looks like an opportunistic act somewhat spur of the moment. The second thing that really stands out, aside from the amateurish aspect, is the question of could security here have possibly prevented the incident? We're hearing about the witnesses talking about this individual pacing outside.

We're in a stage of the investigation in the early hours where you don't know what you don't know, meaning law enforcement will find out more about this individual very shortly.

But were there any indicators that should have shown, hey, this person ought to have been tracked or monitored or picked up earlier on the law enforcement radar? And could this person perhaps have been identified sooner at the location before he went over into action?

CHURCH: And what other questions do you want answered here? And do you get the sense that he worked alone? You're saying this is amateurish. You think this was just him alone?

SCHOEN: Probably. I mean, it may be that other people motivated and prompted him or helped research the event.

But looking at sort of the style of how this was executed, the fact that this person didn't immediately have an elaborate media or social media plan ready, not part of a larger organization that we can tell as of yet, didn't try to flee the scene in order to conduct another attack, didn't do more on the scene to hurt other additional people or look for other targets, all that indicates it's a bit more of a spur of the moment incident and that it's a bit more in a personal dimension than I'm part necessarily of a larger group. The circumstances and the details have yet to come out, of course.

The bigger concern for law enforcement and everybody in the security community right now is will it prompt more incidents. Might we see more of these sort of spur of the moment things? That's one.

And two, of course, is this will probably drive up the need for security at a lot of other places and for a lot of people. We often see a perceived need to increase security, but it may be so, particularly if somebody else decides to undertake a similar action.

CHURCH: And what does it reveal to you when a suspect is eager to claim responsibility as this suspect appears to have done?

SCHOEN: I think it shows you the extent to which this is a very emotive mass cause, if you will, at the moment. Of course, the horrible conditions people are enduring in Gaza, the fact that there is conflict, the larger situation, it involves and engages everybody.

Everybody has a strong opinion on it. There's a lot of activism around the issue and whatever side of the equation you're on, it's clearly very emotionally charged.

So we see this more often with bigger events that it also causes people to, at an individual level and sometimes at a small group level, to then undertake this kind of extremist action. And unfortunately, it looks like that's exactly what this has generated.

It's not the first sort of action, if you will, in this name or in the context of this cause. We've seen incidents in the last few years against Israeli embassies and diplomats in other countries, but certainly it brings it home in Washington, D.C., the lethality of it.

And this, of course, yes, it's a headline grabbing event. So for somebody who's interested in supporting the cause, it's certainly one way of highlighting it.

CHURCH: Glenn Schoen, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it.

SCHOEN: Thank you.

CHURCH: Well, meantime, on Capitol Hill, House Republicans are getting ready for a vote on the bill that will fund President Trump's domestic policy agenda. The House Rules Committee voted to advance the legislation after lengthy discussions.

President Trump himself stepped in on Tuesday in an effort to persuade lawmakers to get on the same page. It appears those issues have been resolved for the moment, at least, and House Speaker Mike Johnson remains confident Republicans can get the job done.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: You never know till the final vote tally, but I'm convinced we're going to pass this bill tonight. You may have one or two no's, you never can be certain.

I mean, this is a massive piece of legislation with lots of moving parts. So we'll see what happens. But I think we're going to get this job done and we're going to do it by Memorial Day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[03:40:08]

CHURCH: G7 finance ministers will meet again today in Canada. On Wednesday, the U.S. Treasury Secretary met with his Japanese counterpart on the sidelines of the summit. The US says they discussed important economic issues, including global security and the ongoing trade negotiations.

The Trump administration has previously said it's close to setting up frameworks of trade deals with India and Japan.

Art Laffer is the Founder of Laffer Associates is also a former economic adviser to Ronald Reagan. Appreciate you joining us.

ART LAFFER, FOUNDER, LAFFER ASSOCIATES, AND FORMER ECONOMIC ADVISER TO RONALD REAGAN: Thank you very much, Rosemary. It's fun to be with you.

CHURCH: So before we talk about the meeting of the G7 finance ministers, I do want to get your reaction to the US stock market plunging Wednesday on fears Donald Trump's massive spending bill will add nearly $4 trillion to the U.S. debt, with the bond market also flashing warning signs. So how worried does that make you when it comes to the U.S. economy?

LAFFER: Well, I'm always worried about the stock market and the bond market as well. I mean, they forecast what will be. And now the market has been very volatile for quite some time and it hinges on the trade and taxes.

I mean, these are very serious times, Rosemary. And, you know, any type of leading one way or the other is likely to set the stock market off going up or going down. And these are the times we're in.

CHURCH: Right, indeed. And of course, let's turn to the G7 finance ministers meeting in Canada right now, where U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Besant met with his international counterparts Wednesday. Central to this gathering are renewed fears of a global downturn sparked by President Trump's trade war.

But no tariff deals are actually expected to come out of this meeting. So what are your expectations?

LAFFER: Well, I would expect that they would talk over the conditions and what type of things they're going to focus on to get a trade deal. We've already had two. We had one with Britain and we've had a major reduction in the tariffs -- imposed tariffs on China.

And I understand India is in the anteroom ready to come on and everyone's discussing the trade deal. I was just with the economic minister here in Israel.

I'm in Jerusalem and they're talking about it. They're in the midst of negotiating. So, you know, you're going to see a lot of ifs and ands and pushes and pulls right now as the trade deals attempt to go through. And there's a lot of risk.

You're completely correct on the trade deals not working out, but there's a lot of it to grow into. I mean, if the trade deals work out well, it could be a major improvement for the world economy.

CHURCH: And Art, with some countries reconsidering their trading relationship with the United States due to Trump's tariffs, what tensions do you expect to see at this meeting and ultimately at the G7 leadership summit planned for next month?

LAFFER: Well, you're going to see a lot of tensions. I mean, what the trade discussions are doing is they're making everyone reconsider their supply chain of products, where they should be producing, whom they should be selling to.

I mean, America is a wonderful trading outlet. We're a great market for a lot of these countries. But America is also a wonderful producer of products and sales to these countries.

And everyone is reconsidering just how all of this is being configured. And right now, and I can tell you that yesterday, dealing with here in Israel, they're talking all sorts of things about their quasi tariffs on automobiles and everything. I mean, everything is on the table, Rosemary, and I don't know how it all is going to come out.

I'm optimistic that it'll be good, but it could turn out sour in a couple of situations. And I'm hoping it doesn't do that. But everyone is deeply involved in this topic, as I've never seen before in my life and I've been around a long time.

CHURCH: Right. And so, Art, what is your assessment of where Donald Trump's global tariff war stands right now? And where do you see this going?

LAFFER: I see it right now in the beginning stages of the negotiations to get a much freer trade world economy is where I see it. I know Donald Trump is well aware of all the risks. He's a very smart person, he loves negotiating.

And I'm at about where I expected to be at this stage in his negotiations. But anything can happen going on into the future. I mean, it really can. And I have a lot of confidence that he can do this really well.

And it will end up being quite a wonderful positive for the world economy is what the way I see it right now.

CHURCH: And Art, one of the goals for President Trump, the whole reason why he decided tariffs was the way to go was to bring manufacturing jobs back to the United States. But the problem with that goal is that there are still many manufacturing jobs that are not filled in this country. So how will that work exactly?

[03:45:07]

LAFFER: Well, let me start on the first one is goals. I believe his goals are to get freer trade. When you look at the world right now, the U.S. is the U.S. is the largest, freest trade is country in the world.

I mean, all of the larger countries in the OECD, all of them have many more tariffs and protections and non-tariff barriers on U.S. products than we do on theirs. I think he'd really like to see that come down.

But he also realizes the leverage potential of the U.S. market. The U.S. market is the place everyone has to be involved in. They do, and so he has a lot of leverage.

And I think he's going to use this leverage, Rosemary, to end the war in Europe, to try to convince China not to be so aggressive with regard to Taiwan. The Middle East is a perfect area for him to use this leverage to try to bring Iran back into the Sea of Nations and get them to be a lot less belligerent here in the Middle East.

So he's got a lot of economic objectives, but as well as political objectives. And I really think there's a very good chance he can be successful in a lot of these and really bring the tensions and hostilities on the world scene really down quickly.

CHURCH: Art Laffer, thank you so much for joining us. I appreciate it.

LAFFER: My pleasure, Rosemary. Thanks for having me.

CHURCH: And we'll be right back.

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[03:50:00]

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CHURCH: A visit to the White House by South Africa's President quickly went sideways as President Donald Trump ambushed his guests with claims of genocide against white South African farmers. Cyril Ramaphosa was hoping to discuss trade and other geopolitical issues. Instead, he was met with a highly orchestrated presentation put on by President Trump's team, complete with articles and a video President Trump said backed up his claims of white genocide.

He also repeated a fringe, widely debunked allegation he's been amplifying for months that white farmers in South Africa are having their land seized and are being killed in massive numbers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: But you do allow them to take land.

CYRIL RAMAPHOSA, SOUTH AFRICAN PRESIDENT: No.

TRUMP: You do allow them to take land.

RAMAPHOSA: Nobody can take land.

TRUMP: And then when they take the land, they kill the white farmer. And when they kill the white farmer, nothing happens to them.

RAMAPHOSA: No. There is quite --

TRUMP: Nothing happens to them.

RAMAPHOSA: There is criminality in our country. People who do get killed, unfortunately, through criminal activity are not only white people. Majority of them are black people. And we have now been utilizing --

TRUMP: The farmers are not black. I don't say that's good or bad, but the farmers are not black.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: More details now on the meeting from CNN's Larry Madowo.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was a multimedia ambush that even a skilled dealmaker like Cyril Ramaphosa could not have prepared for. The South African President forced to sit through a 4.5 minute video montage of clips showing South African opposition leaders calling for the killing of the boar, kill the farmer.

Julius Malema sang. He's the far left opposition leader for the economic freedom fighters. And that song is an old anti-apartheid song from the 80s that he has popularized again.

And courts in South Africa have ruled that it's not a literal call to kill the farmer, that it's seen as an old struggle song that speaks to the historical context of apartheid. And the EFF calls for land expropriation without compensation.

He reacted to his video being played at the Oval Office. He said all the men gathered in Washington to gossip about him, but it will not distract him from their core mission about seizing back land that's owned by the white minority in South Africa.

One key point which is getting a lot of praise in South Africa was the billionaire Johan Rupert, who said this.

JOHAN RUPERT, South African Businessman: We have too many deaths, but it's a cross-border. It's not only white farmers, it's across the border. Now we need technological help, we need Starlink at every little (inaudible) station.

MADOWO: He threw a bone there to Elon Musk, the billionaire who's helped fan these flames of white genocide and persecution in South Africa, and pointed out that violent crime in South Africa affects all racial groups. We've looked into these numbers. We found no evidence of a white genocide in the country.

But that's also on the backdrop of this dramatic video that President Trump showcased of a thousand white crosses purporting to show a thousand dead white farmers. This has been a political stunt by an organization that some criticize as a white supremacist group.

Afroforum, the white African lobby group, told CNN they're very happy with how the meeting went because for them it shows that President Ramaphosa and his party cannot sweep the issues under the carpet. And even though they want good relations with the U.S., South Africa has to respect property rights and make sure that everybody is represented.

So overall, many South Africans were upset to see the most powerful man in the world call Cyril Ramaphosa, the man who helped negotiate the end of apartheid, who says he told me he learned under the feet of Nelson Mandela being told that there was a white genocide and there was little he could do to change the president's mind.

Larry Madowo, CNN, Nairobi.

[03:55:07]

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CHURCH: I want to thank you for spending part of your day with me. I'm Rosemary Church. "Early Start" with Polo Sandoval is coming up next.

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