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Crypto Investor Charged With Kidnapping, Torturing Man For Weeks; The Nation Marks Five Years Since George Floyd's Murder; Harvard Sues Over International Student Ban; Trump Agenda Heads To Senate After Narrowly Passing House; Zelenskyy: U.S. Encouraging Putin With "Silence" Over Barrage Of Attacks; Millions Face Severe Storm Threats This Memorial Day Weekend; Independent Pharmacies Face Rising Costs, Tariff Threats; Waiting On Fate Of Talks Between U.S. And Iran; Remembering And Honoring Fallen Service Members. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired May 25, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:59:49]

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST: And it would put the U.S. on a much more stable debt trajectory. But don't hold your breath on that happening. Far more likely, DOGE will announce some new stunning findings, something like software duplication in the Environmental Protection Agency, which might save the federal government $100 million, or 0.001 percent of the 2025 budget.

Thank you for watching this special hour. I'm Fareed Zakaria.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Hello everyone. Thank you so much for joining me this Sunday. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

We begin with a disturbing criminal case out of New York that prosecutors say involved a brutal plot to steal bitcoin. They say a cryptocurrency investor identified as 37-year-old John Woeltz, kidnapped and tortured a man allegedly for weeks, leading him to believe his family was in danger if he didn't give up his bitcoin password.

Authorities say the victim allegedly managed to escape the upscale Manhattan townhouse where he was being held and flagged down a traffic officer for help.

CNN's Gloria Pazmino is joining me right now with more on all of this. What more are you learning?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fred, you're absolutely correct. Not only is it disturbing, but it's frankly quite bizarre. We're learning the details of this incident that has been going on for the past several weeks.

Police say that John Woeltz lured a man who is from Italy and arrived here in New York City earlier this month. He was lured to this upscale Manhattan apartment, and he was kept there for several weeks, being tortured after being told that he needed to give up his bitcoin password. Now, John Woeltz is a bitcoin -- a cryptocurrency investor, and so far

he's been charged with kidnapping, assault, unlawful imprisonment and criminal possession of a firearm.

Now the victim, Fred, who police have not yet identified, is a 26- year-old man who managed to flee this Manhattan apartment and managed to flag down a traffic cop. And he said that he had been drugged, beaten, that he was shocked with electric wires and dangled over the ledge and threatened to be killed after refusing to give up that bitcoin password.

Now, what's not clear to us yet, Fred, is how these two men knew each other, and if they had any sort of personal or business relationship prior to this incident.

Now, Woeltz was arrested and charged. He was arraigned in Manhattan criminal court -- criminal court yesterday. He has been ordered to surrender his passport. Prosecutors telling the court that they believed he had the means to flee, including owning a private helicopter, and that they wanted him remanded and held without bail. He is due back in Manhattan court later next week.

But some of the details of the evidence that was recovered are really sort of shocking. Police say that they found cocaine, ammunition, a saw, chicken wire inside of this upscale Manhattan home. They found body armor, night vision goggles, and also polaroid photos showing the victim in these torture settings that he described to police.

So it seems like a lot of evidence that was gathered here by police immediately following the incident. And the victim telling police that he managed to flee after finally giving up the password because he believed he was going to be killed, Fred.

WHITFIELD: And then Gloria, authorities say other people may be involved in this plot to steal bitcoin.

PAZMINO: Yes, it appears that there is another person who prosecutors described as an unapprehended male who may have been part of this scheme, who police have not yet identified or arrested yet. We're waiting to learn more about what other charges that person might be facing when, if -- if and when they are detained, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Gloria Pazmino, keep us posted as you learn more.

All right. And now to a somber day of remembrance for Minneapolis and for this entire country. Five years ago today, George Floyd uttered his last words, "I can't breathe", which became a rallying call heard around the world.

Floyd was murdered that day. His neck held firm under the knee of a Minneapolis police officer. Massive protests followed in response. Some police departments enacted reforms. New laws were passed.

But now, as Floyd is being remembered, Trump's Justice Department is working to end police reform agreements and halt investigations into major departments.

[14:04:53]

WHITFIELD: This morning outside Houston, Floyd's family gathered around his gravesite. The Reverend Al Sharpton speaking out against the Trump administration's push to end reforms.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. AL SHARPTON, ACTIVIST: Police reform and justice for the George Floyds of the world will not be trumped. We're going to keep fighting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Let's bring in CNN's Sara Sidner in Minneapolis. Sara, you were there five years ago. You've been reporting on it throughout. What is the tone like today?

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Look, they just -- a lot of folks just finished church and they're starting to come out here. There was a huge church gathering today outside for the Rise and Remember Festival. And that just got over.

You are now seeing what the memorial looks like five years on. And still the words "say their names" with all of the different people who have been killed at the hands of police unjustly.

But you're also seeing quite an interesting scene about the diversity of Minneapolis itself.

You have the native Americans who have come out, who are from here. This is their original land, and they're doing a prayer ceremony of their own right now, and they're doing it right in front of the place where George Floyd was killed.

I just want to give you a sense of what that looks like today five years on, because the community here has taken it upon themselves to volunteer on a daily basis to make sure that the memorial is respectful, is clean, and is a peaceful place to spend time and reflect and to remember.

And part of the remembrance isn't just the life of a man who was killed over a nine-minute period. Really, people here in this neighborhood watched a murder in slow motion. But it is also to talk about what needs to be done.

And as the Trump administration has come into office, many folks around here and around the country can see that all of the gains that happened because of what happened to George Floyd have really been rolled back.

I was able to spend some time with some of the members of George Floyd's family, who came here to come together with this community, who has embraced the family so much.

And here's some of what they had to say about what it's like being here five years on and what is happening in our world today with the administration and the moves it's been making.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANGELA HARRELSON, GEORGE FLOYD'S AUNT: Well, like I said, with everything that's going on, I think I'm doing pretty good, you know.

There's so many people that have showed up -- showed up out here. The kindness, the love, the support. You know, it brings a certain amount of peace and joy.

SIDNER: What do you all think about what's happening with the current administration rolling back all of these reforms?

SELWYN JONES, GEORGE FLOYD'S UNCLE: He didn't do that. We are not politicians. We're humanitarians. So all we could do is wish and hope that they do their job, you know, and making it equal for all races, you know, especially, you know, black and brown.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: So that is the sentiment from the Floyd family that they don't want to get into politics.

But this is inherently political what the Trump administration is doing, where they are purposely rolling back the oversight on departments like the Minneapolis Police Department, that even the chief at the time said needed some reforms.

But I also want to give you some sense of how the country is responding to this in a political way, where you have sort of MAGA land putting out these really disturbing messages.

I can tell you, as a reporter who's covered this for many years, all the vitriol and racism that has been spewed at me and my colleagues when we covered this story.

Here's Laura Loomer, who has the president's ear. Here is what she posted today on the anniversary of a man's death, as his family is trying to mourn and continuing to mourn his death, saying that "This is congratulations to George Floyd. This is five years sober."

I mean, imagine that kind of disgusting vitriol when you are trying to still remember and mourn your loved one.

But that is what is happened with a lot of folks in MAGA land. They see this as a rallying cry against diversity, against police reform. And so these are sort of the two sides of what's happening here in this country on this very day, the day George Floyd was murdered, Fred.

WHITFIELD: Yes. An example of callousness for sure. Sara Sidner, thanks so much.

SIDNER: Yes.

WHITFIELD: All right. Today, President Trump is ratcheting up his attacks on Harvard University just days after a federal judge temporarily halted his administration's ban on Harvard enrolling international students, the president is now demanding, quoting now "names and countries", end quote, of the thousands of international students at the Ivy League school.

[14:09:44]

WHITFIELD: Trump suggesting that foreign countries, some of which he says are hostile to the U.S., should contribute funding to educate their students.

For more on this escalating feud, let's go to Julia Benbrook, near Trump's New Jersey estate, where he is spending the weekend. Julia, what more can you tell us about the president's latest threat -- threatening words to Harvard?

JULIA BENBROOK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we are seeing further escalation in President Donald Trump's ongoing battle with Harvard University. As you mentioned, he did try and block international students from attending Harvard, and that was swiftly halted by a federal judge.

And then overnight, we're hearing from him again as he takes to social media to his platform, Truth Social, to demand more information about those international students.

He wrote, quote, "We want to know who those foreign students are, a reasonable request, since we give Harvard billions of dollars." And he went on to claim that Harvard isn't exactly forthcoming.

Now, about 27 percent of Harvard student body is of students from overseas, and they do share some of that data starting in 2024, of what countries those students are coming from.

And it's important to note that Harvard's student aid part of their Website, shows that foreign students are not eligible for federal funding. Instead, they can apply for scholarships and things through the college.

Our team has spoken with various international students at Harvard, and they describe what's going on right now as a time of uncertainty and one of pure panic as Trump tries to ban their enrollment.

The university itself has also responded, calling this a clear retaliation for their refusal to accept some of the government's policy demands.

And this is just the latest in the back and forth. We're going to pull up some of the key moments and things that have happened over just the last several weeks now.

The administration cut $450 million in federal grants, froze more than $2 billion in research funding, moved to ban international students -- what we're talking about today, threatened to end the university's tax-exempt status, and is using the Department of Justice to investigate diversity initiatives. So again, just a feeling of uncertainty for these international

students as well as for staff and the other students attending as well, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Julia Benbrook, thanks so much.

All right. Joining me right now to talk more about these developments is Domenico Montanaro. He is a senior political editor and correspondent for NPR. Domenico, great to see you.

DOMENICO MONTANARO, SENIOR POLITICAL EDITOR AND CORRESPONDENT, NPR: Hey, great to be with you.

WHITFIELD: So everyone has an opinion on this. What do you think is driving the president's attacks on Harvard and some of the nation's elite universities? I mean, he keeps losing or taking a few steps back in court, but then keeps pushing nonetheless for what he wants.

MONTANARO: Well, it starts with the administration, you know, saying that this is rooted in, you know, the anti-Semitism that they say happened during the protests about the war in Gaza over the last several months or the first several months of the Israel-Gaza war.

But I think that you can put this in some context and perspective with also the fight that the -- that the administration is having with some high-profile law firms, other major institutions in the country.

And there's a degree of anti-elitism that they know is, you know, ripe with their base and that they're able to use this as something that they can push forward on and use to be able to, you know, be -- have something they think they'll have the political wind at their backs on.

And what they've done in being able to leverage some of these other institutions is they wind up getting these deals, and Trump can declare a degree of victory.

Harvard hasn't been doing that, right. I mean, they have this $53 billion you know ability to be able to use those funds to fight against the administration and being able to do that has allowed them a degree of flexibility and be able to, you know, fight them in court and say, hey, you know, we're not going to give in to some of this pressure. But that's why we continue to see this.

And it's interesting that the administration continues to say, well, you know, we give them this more than $2 billion, which are money -- which is money that's usually for things like cancer research or other medical research, as opposed to saying, hey, we're funding some of the universities, so we get to make all of the rules.

WHITFIELD: Ok, let's turn now to the so-called Big, you know, Beautiful Bill, which narrowly passed the House. And now its fate is in the Senate. And the Senate has already said it wants to make a lot of changes.

Earlier today, House Speaker Mike Johnson urged senators to keep it in place. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I encourage them, you know, to do their work, of course, as we all anticipate. But to make as few modifications to this package as possible, because remembering that we've got to pass it one more time to ratify their changes in the house.

And I have a very delicate balance here, very delicate equilibrium that we've reached over a long period of time. And it's best not to meddle with it too much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:14:52]

WHITFIELD: All right. This despite, you know, reports that it will add some $4 trillion, you know, to the nation's debt. So several Republican senators are already sounding the alarm, in large part because of some of that. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): I think we have enough to stop the process until the president gets serious about spending reduction and reducing the deficit.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): I think the cuts currently in the bill are wimpy and anemic, but I still would support the bill even with wimpy and anemic cuts if they weren't going to explode the debt.

The problem is the math doesn't add up. If they strip out the debt ceiling, I'll consider, even with the imperfections, voting for the rest of the bill. But I can't vote to raise the debt ceiling $5 trillion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So this lays the groundwork. What kind of battle should be expected?

MONTANARO: One that goes on beyond Memorial Day, certainly. You know, look, this is something that the senators are going to say, hey, you know, I'm glad that you were able to get this through the House. But we have some say now.

And you have, again, not quite the same, you know, balance that the House had to strike with some of the folks in the Freedom Caucus who wanted to see cuts.

But you have someone like Rand Paul who's not going to give in, and you have, you know, basically three votes that you can lose with the senators, with J.D. Vance then having to come in to break a 50-50 tie.

But that means they're going to have to ping pong this. They're going to have to send it to the Senate. Now, the Senate is going to be looking at it. They're going to, you know, see what things they want to get rid of, to cut, to add, to not have some of those Medicaid cuts, like someone like Josh Hawley, the senator from Missouri, has said he doesn't want to see that many of, that much of.

So then that's going to have to go back to the house. And then they're going to, you know, Mike Johnson, the Speaker of the House, is going to have to deal with his very narrow majority, three seats.

John Boehner, the former speaker of the House, used to say that it was difficult to keep all the cats in the wheelbarrow. And he had a lot more room in that wheelbarrow than Mike Johnson does.

WHITFIELD: Well, starting to look like it's going to be a long way to go.

All right, Domenico Montanaro, great to see you. Thanks so much.

MONTANARO: Good to see you too.

WHITFIELD: All right. Still ahead, Russia launching its largest ever aerial assault on Ukraine, pummeling Kyiv with missiles and drones for a second night in a row despite completing a major prisoner swap.

And intense flooding prompting water rescues in this country in Missouri, as powerful storms threaten travel plans for millions of people this Memorial Day weekend.

And new warnings from local pharmacies, some saying that President Trump's proposed tariffs on prescription drugs could put them out of business.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Parts of this country that are very rural or not very accessible, those pharmacies are really the only like medical facilities that exist.

So those patients are really going to -- they're really going to suffer.

[14:17:41]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. New this afternoon, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is accusing the U.S. of encouraging Russia's Vladimir Putin by remaining silent after a weekend of Russian attacks on the capital of Kyiv and other parts of Ukraine.

CNN's Paula Hancocks has the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We have seen a weekend of superlatives at the same time as seeing the largest aerial assaults from the Russian military on Ukrainian cities. We're also seeing the largest prisoner exchange between the two countries.

Now, starting with the positive, we did see over three days -- Friday, Saturday and Sunday -- a total of 2,000 prisoners being released -- 1,000 Russian, 1,000 Ukrainian.

Now this did happen. As I say, over three days we have been seeing some very emotional reunions, some very emotional images on the Ukrainian side as those coming off from busses draped in the Ukrainian flag are reunited with their loved ones. In some cases they have been held prisoner for a number of years.

Now we did hear from the Ukrainian leader, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, thanking everybody involved in this process.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): The task is to bring home absolutely everyone who is currently held in Russia. And this is a joint task for our intelligence services, for our diplomats, for our entire state.

Clearly, it's not an easy task, but it must be accomplished. I'm grateful to everyone around the world who is helping us.

HANCOCKS: Now, according to the Ukrainian Prisoner of War center, this is the sixth prisoner exchange that we have seen this year alone. And it is the 65th overall.

And yet, at the same time as seeing something as positive as this, we also saw a devastating weekend when it came to the aerial assaults on Ukraine.

We saw from the Ukrainian air force saying that Saturday into Sunday there were almost 70 missiles, almost 300 drones. Now, many of them, they claim, were intercepted, but those that got through were deadly. We know that children were among the dead and injured.

Now they say there were drones, there were cruise missiles, ballistic missiles fired from both ships and planes. According to the Ukrainian leader, rescuers were working in well over 30 cities and villages across the country.

[14:24:49]

HANCOCKS: Now there were some 13 different districts that were impacted, but certainly what we saw in the capital, in Kyiv in the early hours of Sunday morning was that the air raid sirens were blaring for hours.

Residents were told to stay in shelters in the early hours of Sunday morning. And over the weekend, one parliament member, speaking to CNN said it felt like Armageddon.

So a very devastating and deadly weekend in a number of Ukrainian cities.

Paula Hancocks, CNN -- Abu Dhabi.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right. Just ahead, a record-breaking number of people in this country expected to travel this Memorial Day weekend, just as millions of people are getting hit with severe storms as well.

[14:25:34]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:30:02]

WHITFIELD: All right. Welcome back.

A heavy rain and severe storms are bringing a flood risk to the Central U.S. this weekend. Water rescue teams were dispatched in Missouri on Saturday to reach a man trapped by rising floodwaters. High winds also brought down trees and utility poles across Springfield, leaving thousands of customers without power, parts of Missouri could see up to six inches of rainfall and remain under a flood watch through tomorrow night.

And millions of people are traveling this holiday weekend. But as Jenn Sullivan reports, a rough weather could put a damper on the holiday plans.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JENN SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Millions of people are expected to travel this Memorial Day weekend, and many of them are facing the threat of severe weather.

DEREK VAN DAM, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Some of the heavier rainfall here, anywhere from four to six inches of rain locally. So, it's a half a foot of precipitation expected.

SULLIVAN: Strong storms and flash flooding could impact parts of the central plains and Mississippi Valley. The greatest threats are in Oklahoma and Arkansas, as well as Missouri and Kansas. Areas of those two states were decimated by tornadoes last weekend.

TARYN DICKMAN, LOST HOME TO TORNADO: We've had to move out of our house. It's going to be under construction for a long time.

SULLIVAN: Taryn Dickman's family is just one of many who lost everything last weekend, when an EF-3 tornado battered the northwest Kansas town of Grinnell.

Another area in the line of this weekend's storms, Laurel County, Kentucky, the town of London. Entire neighborhoods wiped out last weekend. And now that same area could get pummeled with rain.

SHERIFF JOHN ROOT, LAUREL COUNTY, KENTUCKY: Just keep London, Laurel County in your prayers, because right now, I'm telling you, there\s people that really need it.

SULLIVAN: Meanwhile, the Northeast and parts of the mid-Atlantic are dealing with a rare may Nor'easter that's bringing cooler temperatures and heavy rain. All of this coming as AAA estimates a record 45 million people are expected to travel 50 miles or more this holiday weekend.

AIXA DIAZ, AAA SPOKESPERSON: You want to leave as little to chance as possible, because there are so many things you can't control when you're on the road. Other drivers, construction, the weather.

SULLIVAN: I'm Jenn Sullivan, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right. Coming up, independent pharmacies warning of the impacts proposed tariffs could have on prescription drugs. Why some say they could completely shutter their businesses.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:36:45]

SULLIVAN: We've heard several major companies say they'll have to raise prices as a result of President Trump's tariff war. But some small businesses, including struggling independent pharmacies, are worried they may not be able to survive the impacts of the tariffs. Potential tariffs on prescription drugs could be the final blow to these pharmacies already facing low margins.

And now, the president's tariffs could disrupt supply chains and raise prices on medications made in China, Europe and India.

CNN's Julia Vargas Jones is joining me right now.

Julia, you actually spoke to a pharmacist. And what are they saying?

JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're saying that this is an industry that has been struggling for years, as they're not actually in control of the pricing of the medication that's negotiated between. The providers, the wholesalers and the middlemen as well. What we're looking at is the potential extinction of the mom and pop pharmacy, where so many people rely on not to just fill their prescriptions, but also to get medical advice that they really need.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SONA KAZANGIAN, PHARMACIST, DISCOUNT MEDICAL PHARMACY: There's not a single bottle that I pull up here that doesn't say made in China or made in India. The generics, I think probably about 80 percent of it or more is made in other countries.

JONES (voice-over): The threat of tariffs for this slice of the health care industry looms large. But it's just one of many challenges independent pharmacists like Sona Kazangian now face.

KAZANGIAN: It's very difficult for us to survive.

JONES: Her father started the business 41 years ago. Now she's fighting to keep it open among razor-thin profit margins in what she calls a broken reimbursement system.

KAZANGIAN: There are drugs that I don't even buy anymore because I already know that there is no plan that reimburses me even at cost, much less at a profit.

JONES: That reimbursement is set by pharmacy benefit managers or PBMs, companies that act as middlemen between insurers and pharmacies.

KAZANGIAN: They control, you know, what the patient pays as a co-pay. They control what we as the pharmacy receives as payment. These entities are paying us less than what the drug costs for us to buy it.

JONES: This business model is not sustainable for the pharmacies, experts say, but often more profitable for PBMs.

ROBIN FELDMAN, PROFESSOR OF LAW, UNIV. OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO LAW: PBMs are paid by the discount they get. So they've learned that if prices rise, they get a better discount and their pay goes up.

JONES: So, can they benefit from higher prices of medication?

FELDMAN: If the prices rise because of tariffs or for any other reason, they will do better.

JONES: If enacted, the cost of tariffs on those drugs would be passed down from manufacturer to wholesaler to pharmacy, squeezing these businesses even further.

KAZANGIAN: We don't really know exactly what's going to happen, but I think all independent pharmacies have thought about this issue. If you're acquiring this drug now for X dollars more because of a tariff, the likelihood that the PBM is going to pay me X dollars more to make up for that is probably slim.

JONES: But the Pharmaceutical Care Management Association says PBMs generate at least $148 billion in savings for the healthcare system annually and support independent pharmacies through innovative programs to increase reimbursement on prescription drugs.

[14:40:05]

Earlier this month, the National Community Pharmacists Association issued a statement saying that unless the federal government ensures that PBM pharmacy reimbursements are increased to reflect higher costs, the ripple effect of tariffs could be fewer pharmacies, stranded patients and inadequate pharmacy networks for Medicare and Medicaid.

A grim prognosis for institutions that play a vital role in so many communities.

KAZANGIAN: In parts of this country that are very rural or not very accessible, those pharmacies are really the only like medical facilities that exist. So those patients are really going to, they're really going to suffer.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JONES (on camera): Now, Fred, it's important to make the distinction that most of these pharmacists, as well as the Community Pharmacists Association, say that they are supportive of bolstering manufacturing of pharmaceuticals in America, but they just don't think that imposing tariffs is the way to go. They're saying it's not the solution and it's ultimately going to affect the industry, and it's going to affect patients -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: A lot at stake.

Julia Vargas Jones, thanks so much.

All right. Is a nuclear deal between the U.S. and Iran likely? Sources tell CNN that Iran does not believe it could happen. Plus, we'll take you into the lab where the Trump administration's fight with Harvard is potentially putting decades of invaluable research at risk.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:46:11]

WHITFIELD: All right. New today, we're awaiting word on when the next round of nuclear talks could take place between the U.S. and Iran. Both parties ended Friday without any apparent major progress. A senior Iranian lawmaker told CNN yesterday that he is not optimistic that a deal is likely at this point.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EBRAHIM REZAEI, MEMBER OF IRANIAN PARLIAMENT (through translator): After each round of negotiations, we are getting more disappointed, especially given the recent statements by American officials regarding zero enrichment. I got disappointed and do not have much hope that the negotiations will lead to a deal. We are preparing for plan B.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: The main sticking point remains nuclear enrichment for nonmilitary use. Enrichment inside Iran is a red line for the U.S., while Iran says it can only be done domestically.

With us now is Trita Parsi. He is the founder and president of the National Iranian American Council and executive vice president at the Quincy Institute for Reasonable Statecraft.

Great to see you.

TRITA PARSI, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL IRANIAN AMERICAN COUNCIL: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: So, you have called the U.S. demand for zero enrichment a dead end, a fantasy. Why do you see it that way?

PARSI: Because of 25 years of experience in negotiating with the Iranians, it's become very clear whenever we have pushed for that demand or made it a red line, all that it has ended up doing is to ensure that there is no deal. And when there is no deal, the Iranian nuclear program actually grows and it delays the type of reasonable and realistic restrictions that we can impose on the program, it delays those further.

And the only time we've actually had a deal was when the Obama administration agreed that there would be limited enrichment on Iranian soil, but there would be combined with massive restrictions and inspections. That's the only thing that has worked. That's how Trump started off his diplomacy. But then after three rounds, he seems to have shifted his position towards enrichment. And that's precisely why these talks are now running into these problems.

WHITFIELD: Was that limited enrichment, you know, of years ago of earlier plan for medical use, primarily?

PARSI: It was for civilian use because they were only allowed to enrich to 3.67 percent, which is only useful for producing fuel for nuclear reactors. There was massive restrictions and inspections on the program. The Iranians, for instance, could only have 300 kilos of enrichment -- enriched uranium on their soil at any time, you need at least 1,200 kilos to build a bomb, so there's plenty of ways of making sure that his that Trump's actual red line, which is no weaponization, is fulfilled while having restrictions on the program, but not necessarily by pursuing zero enrichment.

So, if Trump really wants to avoid a nuclear weapon, Iran, there is a path. He was on that path earlier on. If he sticks to that path, I'm pretty confident that not only can he get a deal, he can probably get a better deal because he's willing to put more on the table.

But if we revert back to these positions that John Bolton and Mike Pompeo and others argued for earlier on in the Trump administration, then he will likely have the same fate as he did back then, which was he never even got a deal.

WHITFIELD: Do you think Trump genuinely wants a deal?

PARSI: I do. I think that he genuinely wants a deal, and I think he genuinely wants to see a situation in which he reduces the U.S. troop levels in the region and opens up the Iranian market for American companies. This is actually one of his key objections to Obama's deal, which was that he never lifted sanctions that enabled American companies to get into that market.

Trump is willing to do that, it appears. And that is part of the reason why he potentially could get a better deal, but only if it is coupled with demands that we know can work and that are not maximalist, because once Trump starts pursuing maximalist objectives, the Iranians will start doing the same, and then this whole thing will collapse.

[14:50:04]

WHITFIELD: The Iranian lawmaker that we heard just a moment ago said, it may be time for Iran to go to plan B. What is plan B? What could that be? PARSI: It's unclear. And I think this is the Iranian starting to

negotiate in public just as much as the Trump administration has done so as well for the last couple of weeks. That in and of itself is an unhelpful signal. These negotiations should be kept at the negotiating table rather than this public type of thing that we're seeing right now. Whenever that happens, it just makes it more difficult to get a deal.

WHITFIELD: The lead U.S. negotiator for Iran right now representing the U.S. is Steve Witkoff. He's also the envoy for Gaza and Ukraine.

Is Iran feeling like he, you know, is a strong player? He's the right representative?

PARSI: The Iranians seem to have been quite happy with Witkoff because of a couple of factors. A, he does have the ear of Trump, and he does represent Trump and he doesn't pursue his own agenda. This is very critical. This is a challenge that they've had in the past.

They also seem to think that he is a fair-minded person. I think that's part of the reason why, despite the fact that in the last two or so rounds, Witkoff have insisted on zero enrichment, the talks have not broken down yet because I think the Iranians still are holding up hope that some sort of a compromise can be found.

Theres a lot of criticism against Witkoff from various places saying that he doesn't have the technical expertise, et cetera. And, you know, at the end of the day, he needs to make sure that that technical expertise is included in his team. But the most important thing that he has to have as a negotiator is to be able to say he represents the president and as a result, whatever he says goes.

That seems to be fulfilled with him. And that's part of the reason why the negotiations, at least initially, went in the right direction.

WHITFIELD: All right, Trita Parsi, we'll leave it there for now. Thank you so much.

PARSI: Thank you for having me.

WHITFIELD: All right. CNN Film examines the storied career of one of the most influential music artists of all time, Luther Vandross. Using a wealth of archives, "LUTHER" tells his own story along with his closest musical collaborators and friends. The CNN Film "LUTHER: NEVER TOO MUCH" replays tomorrow, 8:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, right here on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES LAPAGLIA, DIGITAL SERVICES OFFICER, DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS: These American heroes deserve to be remembered and their stories to be told, just as any other veteran or service member.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Still ahead, how one group is working to honor fallen service members buried overseas and ensure that they are remembered here at home.

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[14:47:21]

WHITFIELD: On Memorial Day, Americans honor the sacrifice of service members at cemeteries and monuments across the country. But for those whose heroism ended decades ago and overseas, there's a push to bring their stories closer to home.

CNN's Karin Caifa explains how a new partnership with the V.A. works to keep their memory alive.

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MARK IRELAND, SUPERINTENDENT, SICILY-ROME AMERICAN CEMETERY: I'm walking towards the grave of Ellen Ainsworth. She's buried here in plot C.

KARIN CAIFA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The final resting place of U.S. Army Second Lieutenant Ellen Ainsworth is far from her hometown of Glenwood City, Wisconsin, but the World War II Army nurse still draws visitors at Sicily-Rome American Cemetery.

IRELAND: So, as we take this sand and rub this across, her name for a family member, it creates this physical and emotional connection.

CAIFA: Sicily-Rome American Cemetery, about 40 miles south of Rome, is one of the cemeteries administered by the American Battle Monuments Commission, which maintains monuments to more than 200,000 of the nation's fallen heroes, outside of the United States, including the sites in Paris and Normandy.

BEN BRANDS, HISTORIAN, AMERICAN BATTLE MONUMENTS COMMISSION: They are powerful sites of remembrance that are an incredible place to visit and honor the dead of World War I and World War II. However, our audience is the American people, and many Americans will never get the chance to physically journey to one of our cemeteries.

CAIFA: The American Battle Monuments Commission has now partnered with the Department of Veterans Affairs to bring the stories of these service members closer to home, using the V.A.'s digital Veterans Legacy Memorial.

JAMES LAPAGLIA, DIGITAL SERVICES OFFICER, DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS: These American heroes deserve to be remembered and their stories to be told, just as any other veteran or service member.

CAIFA: Launched in 2019, V.A. program officer James LaPaglia says the digital database is intended to make the stories of every U.S. veteran more interactive, more vivid and more accessible.

LAPAGLIA: We wanted to take the cemetery experience beyond the confines of a -- of a gate or a cemetery wall.

CAIFA: With their data, the V.A. has created online memorial pages for more than 10 million U.S. service members in V.A. and V.A. grant- funded cemeteries, Department of Defense cemeteries like Arlington National Cemetery and other sites like cemeteries abroad. Family members, friends and the public can submit photos and mementos to populate each page and share a veteran's story, like Ainsworth's, which ended in February 1944, in Italy. While her hospital was under attack, she moved her patients to safety, and died from her injuries days later -- a story that Mark Ireland, superintendent of the Sicily- Rome American cemetery, says still inspires.

IRELAND: That idea of, you know, fighting till the very end, not giving up.

CAIFA: And is just one of many to be honored by generations to come.

In Washington, I'm Karin Caifa.

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