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Dems Delay Texas Redistricting Again, Escalating Standoff With GOP; Interview With Rep. Vicente Gonzalez (D-TX); Russia Demands Two Key Regions Of Ukraine For Ceasefire; Unprecedented Humanitarian Situation Unfolding In Gaza; Limited Aid Coming Into Gaza As Starvation Crisis Worsens, Meet The Pastor Crusading For Christian Nationalism. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired August 09, 2025 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: In an effort to block Republicans for advancing these maps, some Democrats have fled the state.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STATE REP. NICOLE COLLIER (D-TX): I'm in the midst of the on the run tour with my fellow Democrats. Now, we're not running from anything. We're running towards protecting our freedom and our vote.

Republicans want to win so bad that they're willing to lie, steal and cheat. And they have no problem changing the long standing rules and processes that we've had in place in Texas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: CNN's Arlette Saenz has more.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jess, the Republican push for redistricting in Texas remains at a standstill as those Texas House Democrats are still out of the state as they're trying to block a vote on congressional maps from happening. Now Republican leaders in Texas are really trying to exert some pressure on these absent House Democrats to return to the state capitol.

The latest move came a bit earlier today when Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton filed a legal complaint in a California court asking the state to enforce those civil arrest warrants for the absent House Democrats. He specifically names six Texas Democratic lawmakers who were with California Governor Gavin Newsom just yesterday at a press conference in Sacramento. But the catch here is that those lawmakers actually are no longer in California.

I spoke with a source familiar with their whereabouts a bit earlier today, and they told me that they have left the state and Governor Newsom seemed to hint at that in a post on social media, writing, quote, "You should definitely use all resources looking for them here, Ken. You will totally find them."

Now, the attorney general of Texas has also asked the Texas Supreme Court to take steps to remove 13 of those absent House Democrats from their seats. But even as they are facing this pressure campaign from Republicans in the state so far these Texas House Democratic lawmakers have said that they're undeterred.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. GENE WU, TEXAS STATE HOUSE DEMOCRATIC LEADER: We will not be broken by these antics. We are not here to play games. We are not here to make waves, to go viral, or do any of that stuff.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: The Texas House speaker has said they will reconvene on Monday to try again, but so far Democrats have not shown any signs of shifting from their strategy. And there is a very real time crunch here. The special session is set to end in Texas on August 19th, and several of these Texas House Democrats have said that they are ready to stay out of the state beyond that date.

Now, very quickly, attention will also shift to California. We are expecting that California will be unveiling some new proposed congressional maps this coming week, with the hope that the state legislature would then vote on them the following week. California Governor Gavin Newsom has said he is intent on getting this on the ballot for November, as Democrats in the state are trying to create some counter to what Republicans are doing down in Texas -- Jess.

DEAN: All right. Arlette Saenz with the latest reporting. Thanks so much.

And joining us now to discuss is Texas Congressman Vicente Gonzalez.

Congressman, thanks so much for being here with us. You are one -- your seat is one of the five being targeted in all of this.

REP. VICENTE GONZALEZ (D-TX): Thank you.

DEAN: Do you think that means if this goes through you just won't -- you won't be able to run, you won't be able to win?

GONZALEZ: No, I think I'll win in the new seat as well. I just think it's unfair what they're doing. They're trying -- it's the most aggressive power grab of American democracy in our history. And it's as clear as that. And what they do is they think they can't win because of the awful policies that they've passed in their period of time. When you cut $500 billion of Medicare for seniors and veteran care and student loan programs, and all these awful things, just to give the billionaires and multinationals the biggest tax break in American history, you know the American people are going to come after you this next term.

And that's exactly what they're trying to prevent. So now they're trying to cheat the system and rig it to try to help them win. I feel confident that anywhere in South Texas that I can succeed and win the election because at the end of the day, we're all Texans and we're watching very closely and people are upset. We've never in our history seen a Texas governor bow to a New Yorker the way we are seeing this governor do. And these Texans that are around the country trying to hold the line of democracy are real heroes. DEAN: Now, look, Governor Abbott vows he's going to keep calling

special sessions. Democrats, I would assume, can't just stay out of the state for, you know, the next several years. Is this a winnable fight for you all?

GONZALEZ: You know, I think that's something that we need to discuss obviously with lawyers. I don't know how far, I'm not in communication with the state legislature.

[19:05:03]

So I don't know how far they intend to take this, but it would be great if the Republicans just changed their mind and said, hey, this is a bad deal. We're causing a redistricting civil war in America, because what you're going to see after Texas does it, you're going to see California do it, then you're going to see Florida do it. Then you're going to see New York do it, and Maryland and on and on and on.

And I'm really opposed, as a middle-of-the-road member of the Democratic Party, I'm really opposed to either party doing it. We need to have the voice of the people of this country heard. And districts have already been drawn. They were drawn in after this 2020 census. Let's continue upholding the rule of law and democracy for Americans and ensuring that they have a voice. What we have this administration doing is they want to choose their voters. They don't want voters to be able to choose their representatives.

And they already have. In fact, they've done it twice for the most part in this country already. And in the middle of the decade, they're doing something that is pretty much unprecedented or certainly unconventional and especially after having passed some horrible proposals through this legislature, they're now trying to rig the system to cheat and win. They know that they can't win legitimately, and they're trying to cheat the American people. It's as simple as that.

DEAN: And you mentioned what's going on in California. Democratic lawmakers there are vowing to hold this special election in November to redraw their state's congressional map. I want to play what Governor Newsom said about that process. This is what he said yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D), CALIFORNIA: We tried to play by higher set of standards and rules with our independent redistricting and we believe in that. And we are not talking about eliminating that commission. We are talking about emergency measures to respond to what's happening in Texas, and we will nullify what happens in Texas. We will pick up five seats with the consent of the people. We're doing it on a temporary basis. We're doing it in a fully transparent way. And we're doing it by asking the people of the state of California for their consent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: All right. Unfortunately, we have lost the congressman. That was Governor Gavin Newsom talking about what's going to go on in California.

But, Congressman Vincente Gonzalez, thanks for being with us. We're sorry we did lose you.

Up next, while President Trump prepares for his summit with Vladimir Putin about a possible ceasefire with Ukraine, CNN has some new reporting Volodymyr Zelenskyy might possibly be there as well. We'll go to the White House.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:12:09]

DEAN: New tonight, two sources telling CNN the White House has not ruled out Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy being in Alaska as U.S. President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin meet there Friday. That highly anticipated meeting in just six days will be the first time in a decade that Putin has set foot on U.S. soil. U.S. officials tell CNN Putin is offering to halt the war, but only if Russia gets to key parts of Ukraine, the Donbas region in the east and Crimea there in the south.

President Zelenskyy is rejecting that idea, saying his country will, quote, "not give land to the occupier." He's also repeating calls for an immediate ceasefire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): What is needed is not a pause in the killings, but real, lasting peace, not a ceasefire sometime in the future, months from now, but immediately. President Trump told me this, and I fully support it.

The president of the United States has the leverage and the determination. Ukraine has supported all of President Trump's proposals since February. All parties supported the ceasefire.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: CNN senior White House reporter Betsy Klein is joining us now.

Betsy, tell us more about the White House's thinking and what you're learning about potentially Zelenskyy being in Alaska.

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Right, Jessica. Well, since the president announced his plans to meet Russian President Vladimir Putin in Alaska on Friday, there has been an intensive behind-the-scenes diplomatic effort to get American allies on board. Now, this meeting came together very, very quickly. We still don't have a sense of where exactly in Alaska it is going to take place, but notably when President Trump announced this meeting, he did not say whether or when Ukraine's President Zelenskyy would be included in this process to secure a potential ceasefire deal.

And Zelenskyy has been emphatic that Ukraine needs to have a seat at the table and needs to be a participant in these negotiations. He has also said that ceding any Ukrainian territory to Russia is a nonstarter. But all of this comes weeks or just days, excuse me, after Putin met with the president's special envoy to the Middle East, Steve Witkoff. Putin laying out the details of a potential deal and pressed for more specifics on what that might entail.

President Trump telling reporters that a deal could include, quote, "some swapping of territories." European allies have been scrambling to get more details on what exactly that might mean. They've expressed concern about the possibility of Ukraine ceding territory, and have advocated for Zelenskyy to be part of any talks, but to allay some of those concerns, Vice President JD Vance convening a group of European officials, Ukrainian officials, along with U.K. Foreign Secretary David Lammy in England for an hours long meeting earlier today, where a U.S. official tells me that significant progress was made laying out both the U.S. view as well as the American sense of where Russia stands heading into this meeting.

[19:15:15]

We also understand that Steve Witkoff was present virtually to talk about some of the details there. But European officials really want Zelenskyy to be present, if not in Alaska, than at any follow up meetings to talk about a deal. Two sources familiar with the matter telling our colleague Kristen Holmes that the White House has not completely ruled out the possibility of Zelenskyy going to Alaska. But of course, the details of this meeting remain in flux -- Jessica.

DEAN: All right. Betsy Klein at the White House with that latest reporting. Thank you so much.

And we are joined now by former U.S. ambassador to NATO, Kurt Volker. He also served as special representative for Ukraine negotiations during President Trump's first term.

Mr. Ambassador, thank you for being here with us on this Saturday evening. I first want to ask you how you would be advising and preparing the president ahead of Friday's meeting.

KURT VOLKER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: Well, that's a great question because I think there are a few things that have been lost in the details right now but these details matter. First, there's a big difference between not fighting over territory and just accepting that, some of it's occupied, versus legitimizing the occupation of that territory, recognizing it as Russian territory.

We should never be recognizing Russia's aggression and occupation of Ukrainian territory, but we could get to a point where there's a ceasefire and where basically Ukraine is not contesting it militarily. The West is not contesting it militarily. We have a long-term standoff and difference of views, and we deter future Russian attacks. That's very different than recognizing Russia's occupation.

A second thing that I would be advising President Trump in this as well is that he has to remember that President Putin has rejected everything that Trump has proposed. So even this past week, he played Trump. Trump had a 50-day deadline, then a 10-day deadline, and Putin did not have a ceasefire, as was demanded by Trump. And yet Trump avoided implementing the tough sanctions and tariffs that he said that he would. Instead, Putin changed the subject to a meeting, a bilateral meeting in Alaska, and then his proposal is basically to keep everything that he already occupies and demand that Ukraine withdraw from territory that Russia doesn't even occupy. So Putin is playing Trump here, and Trump needs to know that.

DEAN: Yes. And so as you lay it out like that, it does seem like going into this, this is kind of been a victory for Vladimir Putin.

VOLKER: Absolutely. He benefits so much more from a meeting with Trump than Trump does from meeting with Putin. Now, Trump is motivated, I believe, genuinely, by wanting to end the war. He's willing to go the extra mile. He'll do the bilateral meeting. He wants to see the killing stopped. But Putin is exploiting Trump's good nature in this. By then getting a bilateral meeting with the president of the United States when he's an indicted war criminal, when he can't travel normally throughout most of the world, and not giving anything in return.

DEAN: And so then, what does the president push him on? And if he does accept what Putin is asking for, which we've laid out, what does that leave for Ukraine? Where is Ukraine in all of this?

VOLKER: Well, first off, President Trump hasn't indicated whether he agrees with Putin's proposals or not. This is what Putin is proposing. So that's understood. Secondly, I think that getting Putin engaged has been a very big lift. It's a big deal to get everybody talking, even though they're wildly far apart right now. But President Trump needs to keep his compass and he needs to be able to tell Vladimir Putin that you're never going to win this war.

It's only going to get worse for Russia. You need to end it now. You need to have a ceasefire first. That's the number one thing. Stop the killing. Then we can talk about arrangements. And secondly, there's nothing that President Trump can agree to with Putin that he can implement. Implementation depends on Ukraine agreeing as well. So this has got to be a discussion that is ultimately between Ukraine and Russia, moderated or brought together by the United States. Sure. But if Ukraine is not on board, there's nothing President Trump can do to make such an agreement.

DEAN: And to that end, we do have this new reporting that the White House has not ruled out Zelenskyy being in Alaska during this meeting on Friday.

[19:20:09]

Would you encourage the president and the administration to have him there?

VOLKER: Yes, I think it's not a bad idea at all. I think that President Trump is putting as much emphasis and much push into this as possible to get to a ceasefire, and I think if the two of them are able to meet with Trump and explain their positions and Trump just stays resolute, ceasefire first, the rest we can discuss, ceasefire first, I think that could be a good thing.

DEAN: And what of -- what of the sanctions? If, and again, we're projecting. We don't know what's going to happen on Friday. But if they cannot reach a deal, at what point does Trump have to push forward with following through on some of these threats? Or do you think he does?

VOLKER: Right. Yes. Trump should have -- yes, Trump should have already done this. He should never have let his own deadline pass. He needs to apply pressure in order to have something that he can lift. Right now, Putin is not under any pressure. So Trump needs to be layering on that pressure to cause Putin to want to end this. And right now, that's not the situation. And I hope that if he didn't do it Friday, which he didn't, if he doesn't do it by this weekend or Monday, certainly after this Friday meeting, if there's no ceasefire, he needs to move.

DEAN: All right. Ambassador Kurt Volker, thank you so much for being with us. We appreciate your time.

VOLKER: Thank you so much.

DEAN: Yes. Israel's newest plans for Gaza sparking criticism from around the world and also from within Israel. Those takeover plans come as Gaza continues to suffer a humanitarian crisis, with only a fraction of needed food and aid getting to civilians there.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:26:19]

DEAN: Backlash is growing against Israel's plan to take control of Gaza City. Among hostage families and other Israelis, that move is raising fears about the risk to hostages, who, of course, are still being held there in Gaza. Tens of thousands gathering in Tel Aviv tonight, calling for an end to the war, a ceasefire and a release of all hostages.

Every day the crisis is worsening for Palestinians there in Gaza, limited aid and food trickling in. But it's becoming increasingly dangerous to access that. And we do want to warn you, this next video is disturbing. A local hospital says a 14-year-old boy was struck by an aid package and killed today. That airdrop was being carried out near a camp in central Gaza.

I want to bring in Steve Dorsey. He's the spokesperson for the International Committee of the Red Cross.

Steve, thank you so much for joining us tonight. I really appreciate it. I want to start first with these new plans by the Israelis to take control of Gaza City and what that might potentially mean for the humanitarian crisis there.

STEVE DORSEY, INTERNATIONAL COMMITTEE OF THE RED CROSS SPOKESPERSON: Jessica, thanks for having me. I can tell you that an escalation in the hostilities in Gaza, particularly in places like Gaza City where many civilians are concentrated just risk deepening an already catastrophic humanitarian situation. Let's remember that 80 percent of Gaza is already under evacuation orders. Compressing more civilians into an even smaller patch of land is really unimaginable.

There are tremendous challenges to getting aid anywhere in Gaza. It is dangerous. Many parts are inaccessible. Roads have been destroyed, transportation and logistics are near impossible. Regardless, we still plan to remain in Gaza despite any deteriorating situation and continue to provide as much help as we can to the people that need it.

DEAN: What are your colleagues saying about the aid situation as it currently stands today? What are they seeing?

DORSEY: Well, we've been seeing a lot of violence for sure at our field hospital in southern Gaza in Rafah. Since the end of May we've treated about 4500 patients who were hurt, they tell us, trying to reach a food distribution site. Some 300 already arrived dead to our hospital and 30 mass casualty events. Those are times when our 60-bed facility is completely overwhelmed. We are rationing medicine. We're rationing supplies. Restocking anything is a major challenge.

But also, Jessica, we're rationing food. I mean, this is one of the last remaining medical facilities for more than two million people in Gaza. We're only able to feed our patients there rice with a bit of pepper, sometimes some turmeric. But remember, if you're recovering from a gunshot wound, from blast injuries, you need a diverse dietary set of nutrients. And that includes fat and proteins. Right now, we can't feed patients. We can barely feed ourselves even.

DEAN: Well. And I'm thinking about, obviously, these children that we continue to see these images of, if you're recovering from wounds or even if you're just a growing little kid needing the proper amount of food is really important.

DORSEY: Yes. Calorie intake, especially for children, is a hard thing to manage in Gaza, let alone for their parents. Of course, we've seen there's really disturbing images of videos making their way out of Gaza of these emaciated children.

[19:30:00]

We know that our staff at our field hospital are seeing increasing cases of signs of malnutrition. My colleagues in Gaza have been reporting they, of course, hear children crying from hunger. They tell us that they're seeing children pick through debris, trash, rubble, trying to find any kind of scraps. That's how desperate the situation is in Gaza right now and people are really, living as close to the line of survival as you can imagine right now.

DEAN: Other aid experts that I've spoken to or people who are serving or trying to serve some of the population there, they say that really the way around this is to flood the zone with aid, just flood it with aid where it's not something that's, you know, you're trying to get to that's hard to get to. It's also harder for Hamas to sell that on the black market and make a lot of money off of it, because suddenly there's aid everywhere. Do you agree with that? Is that the only way to remedy what we're seeing right now, or is that the best way?

DORSEY: Well, there's two things that we need. First and foremost is a ceasefire, right? We don't need an intensification of hostilities. We need a break from the fighting. And we need, part of that to be a surge and an unimpeded access for humanitarian workers to increase aid. Of course, we also need to see these hostages released as well. Humanitarian aid can't be used as a bargaining chip. Humanitarian action should be removed from politics. But of course, we need. And the civilians in Gaza need a surge in aid, not just food, that we've been seeing, a need for over the last few weeks, but also things like fuel, really basic things, right.

I mean, our folks in Gaza tell us that they're getting more cases of respiratory infections now at our hospital because people are burning trash, plastics, anything they can find breathing that in to cook, whatever meal they can scrounge up. Of course, there's also sanitation concerns, public health concerns, infrastructure concerns. The aid list is immeasurable. And we need a concentrated, organized, sustainable effort to begin addressing that.

DEAN: All right, Steve Dorsey from the Red Cross, we really appreciate your time tonight. Thank you so much.

DORSEY: Thanks, Jessica.

DEAN: And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:37:07]

DEAN: A new church has opened in Washington, D.C., just blocks away from the Capitol and just minutes before its first inaugural service, Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth and his family walked in. The church is part of the Idaho based evangelical movement that wants America to become a Christian theocracy, where women cannot vote and homosexuality is a crime. In this CNN special report, CNN's Pamela Brown went to Moscow, Idaho, to meet the controversial pastor behind it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN CHIEF INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT AND ANCHOR (voice over): Christ Church Senior Pastor Doug Wilson makes no apologies for his beliefs on god and country.

DOUG WILSON, CHRIST CHURCH SENIOR PASTOR: I'd like to see the town be a Christian town. I'd like to see this the state be a Christian state. I'd like to see the nation be a Christian nation. I'd like to see the world be a Christian world.

BROWN, (voice over): And now Wilson's controversial views as a Christian nationalist are gaining sway in the nations center of power with the recent opening of his new church and high profile parishioners like Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth.

BROWN (on camera): Is planting a church in D.C. part of your mission to try to turn this into a Christian nation?

WILSON: Yes, so every society is theocratic. The only question is who's "theo" in a secular democracy, it would be "demos", the people in a Christian republic, it would be Christ.

BROWN, (on camera): Well, what would you say to someone watching this and say, look, I'm a Muslim. Who are you to say your worldview is better than mine? That your God is better than mine?

WILSON: Well, if I went to Saudi Arabia, I would fully expect to live under their God's rules.

BROWN (on camera): But you said earlier that you want this to be a Christian world.

WILSON: Yes.

BROWN (on camera): So, you want to supplant their religion with your Christian?

WILSON: Yes, by peaceful means. By sharing the Gospel. There's a lot of work yet to do. I believe that we are working our little corner of the vineyard.

BROWN (voice over): Wilson's little corner, a picturesque campus nestled on the outskirts of downtown Moscow, Idaho, is growing by the day with thousands of like-minded Christians.

Parishioners of his church, known as Kirkers, own and operate several businesses downtown next to liberal college town stores.

WILSON: If it's true, if it's true --

(BOOING)

BROWN (on camera): Why did he yell boo?

WILSON: Because of me.

BROWN (on camera): Because of you.

WILSON: Yes, well you have -- there you go.

BROWN (on camera): That's a regular day for you.

WILSON: That's not unusual.

BROWN (voice over): A big focus of his Christian movement is on a patriarchal society, where men are dominant and women are expected to submit to their husbands.

WILSON: Women are the kind of people that people come out of.

BROWN (on camera): So, you just think they're meant to have babies, that's it, they're just a vessel.

WILSON: No, it doesn't take any talent to simply reproduce biologically. The wife and mother, who is the chief executive of the home, is entrusted with three or four or five eternal souls.

BROWN (voice over): I'm here as a working journalist, and I'm a mom of three.

WILSON: Good for you.

BROWN (on camera): Is that an issue for you?

WILSON: No, it's not automatically an issue.

BROWN (voice over): Josh and Amy Prince, along with their four kids, moved here from Washington State.

BROWN (on camera): Do you see Amy as your equal?

JOSH PRINCE, MEMBER, CHRIST CHURCH: Yes and no, in the sense that we're both saved by grace, we're absolutely on equal footing. But we have very different purposes, God given.

BROWN (on camera): But do you see yourself as the head of the household as the man.

AMY PRINCE, MEMBER CHRIST CHURCH: He is the head of our household. Yes, and I do submit to him.

BROWN (on camera): So, like moving here --

A. PRINCE: I was just going to say that.

BROWN (on camera): -- was ultimately your decision?

A. PRINCE: Yes.

J. PRINCE: That's a great example.

A. PRINCE: A great example.

BROWN (voice over): Wilson says in his vision of a Christian society, women as individuals shouldn't be able to vote. His fellow pastors, Jared Longshore and Toby Sumpter, agree.

TOBY SUMTPER, SENIOR PASTOR, KING'S CROSS CHURCH: In my ideal society, we would vote as households, and I would ordinarily be the one that would cast the vote, but I would cast the vote having discussed it with my household.

BROWN (on camera): But what if there's -- your wife doesn't want to vote for the same person as you?

SUMPTER: Well, then that's a great opportunity for a good discussion.

[19:40:57] BROWN (on camera): There are some who have gone so far as to say that

they want the 19th Amendment repealed.

JARED LONGSHORE, EXECUTIVE PASTOR, CHRIST CHURCH: I would support that, and I'd support it on the basis that the atomization that comes with our current system is not good for humans.

BROWN (voice over): And Wilson, a veteran himself, is unapologetic about his view that women shouldn't be in certain leadership or combat roles.

BROWN (on camera): Looking at the leadership page for Christ Church, it's all men. Do you accept women in leadership roles in the church and government?

WILSON: In the church, no.

BROWN (on camera): Why?

WILSON: Because the Bible says not to.

JENNIFER BUTLER, FOUNDER, FAITH IN DEMOCRACY: Well, that's not what happens in the Bible. Women do lead all the time.

BROWN (voice over): Progressive faith leader, Reverend Jennifer Butler is concerned about Wilson's growing influence.

BUTLER: He is rapidly gaining in power. He has hundreds of churches established around the country. They actually literally want to take over towns and cities, and they have access to this administration.

BROWN (voice over): Wilson is part of a broader Christian nationalist movement making inroads with the Trump administration, with a newly created faith office led by evangelical Pastor Paula White-Cain and people seen right outside the White House entrance praying and speaking in tongues.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are standing on the soil of the White House, and we are declaring your word.

BROWN (voice over): And now, there's a monthly prayer service at the Pentagon initiated by Hegseth. Wilson's highest level connection to the administration.

WILSON: It's not organizationally tied to us, but it's the kind of thing we love to see.

BROWN (voice over): For his part, Hegseth has publicly praised Wilson.

PETE HEGSETH, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Now, we're standing on the shoulders of a generation later, the Doug Wilsons and the others.

BROWN (voice over): Wilson's influence spans the globe with more than 150 churches. Lennox Kalifungwa, moved to Moscow from Africa.

LENNOX KALIFUNGWA, NEW MEMBER OF CHRIST CHURCH FROM ZAMBIA: It's really because I want to be a part of a community that was doing something, and especially in building Christian institutions.

BROWN (on camera): Are there other Black families in this community?

KALIFUNGWA: Oh, absolutely. There's a few Black families.

BROWN (voice over): Wilson maintains, all are welcome to his church, but he's also not shying away from his past controversial statements on race.

BROWN (on camera): Do you still believe what you said back in the 90's, that there's a mutual affection between master and slave?

WILSON: Yes, it depends on which master and which slave you're talking about. Slavery was overseen and conducted by fallen human beings, and there were horrendous abuses and there were also people who own slaves who were decent human beings and didn't mistreat them. I think that system of chattel slavery was an unbiblical system, and I'm grateful its gone.

BROWN (voice over): What he also wants gone same-sex marriage because he thinks homosexuality is a crime.

WILSON: In the late 70's and early 80's, sodomy was a felony in all 50 states. That America of that day was not a totalitarian hellhole.

BROWN (on camera): So, you would like America to go back to that?

WILSON: Yes.

BROWN (voice over): Wilson maintains his ultimate goal is to bring about the second coming of Christ through his work and rejects critics claims he's trying to make the dystopian world of the handmaids tale a reality.

WILSON: I'm not a White nationalist. I'm not a fascist. I'm not a racist. I'm not a misogynist.

BROWN (on camera): How far off do you see a Christian nation like a full on Christian theocracy?

WILSON: Oh, 250 years.

BROWN (on camera): Two hundred fifty years.

WILSON: Honestly, that's --

BROWN (on camera): That's what you see. But you do think it will happen?

WILSON: Yes, I do. We're not going to usher in anything ourselves. We're really genuinely pioneers.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: All right, Pamela Brown, thank you so much for that and CNN has asked the Defense Department about Secretary Hegseth's relationship with Doug Wilson. A department spokesperson said Hegseth is, "a proud member of Wilson's church network and that he appreciates many of Wilson's writings and teachings".

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:49:18]

DEAN: The new CNN original series "American Prince JFK Jr.", follows the story and lasting legacy of John F. Kennedy Jr. from his early years marked by his father's assassination to his iconic love story with Carolyn Bessette. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAROLYN BESSETTE-KENNEDY, AMERICAN FASHION PUBLICIST: He wanted to maybe break some rules and then he did. It sounds silly, but like he moved downtown to Tribeca, when his whole family lived on the upper East Side and it just was like, in these little ways, you're making boundaries and you're creating independence and you're creating this other life.

There is no such thing as a private, normal day in the life of John F. Kennedy Jr..

LEAH WRIGHT RIGUEUR, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST AND HISTORIAN: He is repeatedly a focus of not just tabloid fodder, but also fawning public adoration.

ROBERT DE NIRO, AMERICAN ACTOR AND DIRECTOR: The first time I met him, he lived around the corner from where I lived and he would be followed more than say I was followed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, he was John Kennedy Jr.. Who wouldn't be interested in him? He had those good looks and he was a regular person. People were just -- they couldn't get over him or get enough of him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[19:50:28]

DEAN: And joining us now to talk more, is someone you saw in that clip, CNN political analyst and historian Leah Wright Rigueur. Leah, thanks so much for being here with us. Walk us through the ways in which JFK Jr., so etched in the memories and of the American public really broke the mold, tried to create his own life and do his own thing, even coming from this very famous family.

RIGUEUR: Right, well he's, you know, John F. Kennedy. Jr. is American royalty. Who can forget that image of a three-year-old little boy saluting his father's casket. And that's what America thinks of when they think of John F. Kennedy. He grows up in the public eye with all eyes on him. And so really, when he reaches adulthood, there comes this moment

where he says, I have to set out and I have to become my own figure. I have to become my own man. I have to step out of my father's legacy, my family's legacy and define who I am going to be.

And I think part of what he ends up doing is not just saying that, not just thinking it, but really trying to embody it in the actions, going to law school, moving, as we saw in that clip, moving downtown to Tribeca and outside of his family's compound. But also, really trying to engage with people in a human way. And then, of course, testing out the waters, the political waters and saying, I am my own man. But yes, I am part of that Kennedy celebrity. But I'm also trying to define myself and establish what I value, what my morals are, and what policies and things that I care about. And what do I care about deeply.

DEAN: Yes, and look, he along with his wife and her sister died in that airplane crash in 1999 and here we are in 2025. And people are still so intrigued. They are so interested by JFK, Jr., by his wife, Carolyn Bessette. Why do you think that is?

RIGUEUR: Well, I think part of what we see with John F. Kennedy, Jr. is a life cut short, a life of promise cut short. And so, there's always this eternal question about what would John F. Kennedy have been and I think that's actually one of the central questions of this series, which is he had so much promise, he had so much background and experience, but also he had gone out on his own to try and make his own and establish his own footprint, and had done a really remarkable job.

And then, of course, there is this dance with celebrity and privacy. And this is where Carolyn comes in, his wife. They were this couple that was so public sometimes against their will and yet they maintained a level of privacy and intimacy that was really quite remarkable. People wanted more of that.

And so, when all of 1999 (AUDIO GAP) the world not only mourned (AUDIO GAP) but have come next, and it means that its forever etched in our public memory, we're constantly thinking about it.

DEAN: Yes, all right. Leah Wright Rigueur, thank you so much. I'm looking really forward to this. And I know you took part in it as well. Thank you so much. Be sure to tune in the new CNN original series, "American Prince JFK Jr.". It premieres tonight at 9:00 P.M. Eastern and Pacific, right here on CNN.

Up next, some terrifying scenes on the world's largest cruise ship after a water slide cracked open, injuring a passenger. We'll tell you about it.

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DEAN: The Commander for the famed Apollo 13 Mission has died. Jim Lovell passed away Thursday in Lake Forest, Illinois. He was 97 years old.

Lovell was the first astronaut to make four spaceflights, including Apollo 8, before NASA selected him to command Apollo 13. That mission was supposed to be the third successful moon landing, but an oxygen tank explosion is what caused Lovell to famously say, "Houston, we have a problem."

The crew was forced back down to Earth, surviving a risky splashdown in the South Pacific.

It was a scary moment for some cruise passengers trying to beat the heat. Part of a water slide on a Royal Caribbean ship broke off while a guest was on that slide. That guest was treated for injuries. At one point, water was gushing through a hole in the slide, which is now closed for the remainder of the cruise.

The ship is currently the world's largest cruise ship in operation.

Detroit Lions player, Morice Norris posted an encouraging update today after suffering a very scary head injury on the field last night during a preseason game against the Atlanta Falcons. Norris was trying to make a tackle when he suffered a scary head injury.

He fell to the turf and appeared to be unconscious. He was attended to for about 20 minutes before an ambulance took him from the field to a local hospital, where he did stay overnight for observation.

The game was eventually suspended. He posted on Instagram he was all right and appreciated all the love saying "Amen. Amen."

I want to say thank you so much for joining me on this Saturday evening. I'm Jessica Dean. I am going to see you again tomorrow night. We start at 6:00 Eastern.

"Real Time " with Bill Maher is headed your way next.

Have a good night, everyone.

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