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Israel And Hamas Move Forward On Trump's Gaza Peace Plan; At Least 18 People Arrested Outside Illinois ICE Facility; Illinois Gov. Blasts Trump Admin "Federal Overreach"; Apple Takes Down ICE Tracking Apps Amid Trump Pressure Campaign; Shutdown Affecting Fed Workers; Military Working Without Pay; Congress Leaves DC With No Funding Deal In Sight; Witkoff And Kushner Travel To Egypt; Rogue Planet Is Caught Behaving Like A Star. Aired 1-2p ET

Aired October 04, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Despite Israel and Hamas signaling a willingness to move forward on the proposed a U.S. ceasefire plan, significant sticking points remain on both sides. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is expected to deliver a televised address just moments from now.

CNN's Julia Benbrook is joining me right now on the next potential steps. Julia, what are you hearing?

JULIA BENBROOK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, just this afternoon, President Donald Trump took to social media to say that Israel had temporarily stopped the bombing in order to give the hostage release and peace plan a chance. In that same post he warned Hamas to move quickly toward an agreement, adding this, quote, "or else all bets will be off."

While there are still a lot of questions about how and when a lasting peace agreement could come together, we have seen a lot of momentum this week. President Donald Trump has long stated his goal of helping bring this conflict to an end and on Monday he hosted Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu here at the White House.

The two sat down for a bilateral meeting. And then during a joint press conference Netanyahu said that he supported Trump's 20-point peace plan. It calls for the release of all hostages held by Hamas within 72 hours of an agreement and sets out a roadmap for Gaza following the end of the war.

On Friday, Hamas said that it agreed to immediately enter negotiations toward releasing all of the hostages, but it stopped short of fully endorsing all 20 points of Trump's plan. Trump called this a, quote, "big day" in remarks from the Oval Office, but he made it clear that this is not a final peace deal quite yet.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a big day. We'll see how it all turns out. We have to get the final word down and concrete. Very importantly, I look forward to having the hostages come home to their parents.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BENBROOK: And then I want to pull up that social media post for you here to read it in full. These are the latest remarks from the President. He said, quote, "I appreciate that Israel has temporarily stopped the bombing in order to give the hostage release and peace deal a chance to be completed. Hamas must move quickly or else all bets will be off. I will not tolerate delay, which many think will happen, or any outcome where Gaza poses a threat again. Let's get this done fast. Everyone will be treated fairly."

So what comes next when it comes to U.S. involvement in these ongoing negotiations? As you mentioned, a number of U.S. officials have confirmed with CNN that Trump's envoy, Steve Witkoff, as well as Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, who has been involved in these talks, will travel to Egypt for meetings on Sunday to discuss the hostage release that Hamas has agreed to, as well as next steps toward a peace deal. Fred?

WHITFIELD: All right, Julia Benbrook, thanks so much.

All right, we're also standing by for a judge's decision on whether to block President Trump from deploying National Guard troops to Portland, Oregon. Today, the federal judge, who was nominated by Trump, is expected to decide whether to grant a temporary restraining order stopping the President from sending National Guard to protect what he describes as a war-ravaged Portland.

The administration is citing weeks-long demonstrations outside the Portland ICE facility as justification for the deployment. But the state says the order is illegal and has called the President's portrayal of the city, I'm quoting now, "wildly hyperbolic," end quote.

Portland is one of multiple cities the Trump administration has already deployed troops to, or plans to, send an immigration crackdown in Chicago. It is now sparking growing protests, arrests, and tension.

CNN's Rafael Romo is joining me now with much more on what's happening in Chicago.

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And things are moving fast, Fred. Just imagine, in the last 24 hours, there has been massive arrests at a protest in metro Chicago, a highly produced video published by the Homeland Security Secretary as a warning to the Windy City. And a statement made by the Illinois governor saying that a constitutional crisis in this country is already happening.

On Friday morning, federal agents clashed with protesters at an Immigration and Customs Enforcement detention center for migrants in Broadview, just outside of Chicago, while Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem and Border Patrol Commander Greg Bovino were seen on the ICE facility's roof. At least 18 people were arrested at the site, where protesters have gathered for several weeks in a row to protest the Trump administration crackdown on immigration. Later in the day, this is what happened when Noem tried to enter the Broadview Municipal Building.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you need restroom?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you cannot.

KRISTI NOEM, SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: We can't?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

NOEM: OK. All right, thank you. Interesting.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

[13:05:04]

ROMO: And Noem later told a conservative YouTube commentator that this is an example of how federal agents are being treated in Democratic- run cities and states.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

NOEM: As much as these local leaders and governors talk about cooperating and having the backs of our law enforcement officers, this is what we have to put up with every single day. And all we're doing is getting criminals as terrorists and cartels and gang members off the streets to make families safer here. It's ridiculous.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

ROMO: A forceful reply to Noem came hours later from Illinois Governor JB Pritzker, speaking on a Democratic fundraiser here in Atlanta. Pritzker said that President Donald Trump has declared war on Chicago, citing examples of federal law enforcement operations he considers an overreach, including the detention of multiple U.S. citizens, shooting gas pellets at a journalist, raiding an apartment complex full of families and children, and shooting and killing a man who had just dropped his children at daycare."

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

GOV. JB PRITZKER (D), ILLINOIS: In this nation, people have rights. They have the right to due process. They have the right to a trial. They have the right to basic dignity. We can be strong on borders and crime without being weak on humanity.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

ROMO: And this morning on her X account, Secretary Noem published the following video with the caption, "Chicago, we are here for you." The video shows a multi-agency operation conducted Tuesday in Chicago that led to the arrest of 37 people by federal agents using a Black Hawk helicopter, military vehicles, and heavy weapons. (BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go, go. Push. Get out of the way for the first cut (ph). Clear the way through barricade.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

ROMO: According to DHS, more than 1,000 undocumented immigrants have been arrested since early September as part of what officials call Operation Midway Blitz. And as you can imagine, Fred, a lot of very nervous people in different neighborhoods across the Chicago metro area.

WHITFIELD: Yes, we've heard that from quite a few folks who said they really can't believe their eyes.

All right. Thank you so much, Rafael Romo. Appreciate that.

All right, the Trump administration is pressuring tech companies to remove apps that track ICE officers and their locations. Apple has removed ICEBlock and similar apps that allow people to alert others nearby about sightings of Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents in their area.

CNN Tech Reporter Clare Duffy has more.

CLARE DUFFY, CNN TECH REPORTER: That's right. Apple on Thursday removed ICEBlock and similar apps, which had been on the App Store for months following a request from the U.S. Justice Department. In an email to ICEBlock creator Joshua Aaron, Apple said that the app violated its rules against objectionable and defamatory, discriminatory, and mean-spirited content.

The company also said it received information from law enforcement that it said showed the purpose of the app was to provide information that could cause harm to law enforcement officers, although Aaron, the app's creator, has denied that. This all comes as President Trump and other members of his administration have for months criticized these kinds of apps, saying that they could pose a threat to ICE agents.

In a statement on Friday, U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi said the DOJ demanded the app's removal from the App Store because it puts ICE agents at risk.

Now, for his part, Joshua Aaron says he created ICEBlock to allow people to avoid interactions with ICE agents. He called the suggestion that the app is designed to put ICE agents at risk patently false. And when users went to report sightings, nearby sightings of ICE agents on the app, they would actually see a pop-up that reminded them that the purpose of the app was not to interfere with law enforcement.

He says that he will fight this removal from the App Store. Take a listen to what more he told our Erin Burnett on Friday night.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP) JOSHUA AARON, ICEBLOCK APP CREATOR: So there are no repercussions. They want to act in secrecy, and an app like ICEBlock does not allow that to happen. But here's the interesting part. If you see something in public -- remember, our federal tax dollars are paying for all of this, right?

And if you see a law enforcement officer in public, whether it's a speed trap or an ICE agent, you're just simply saying, on ICEBlock or Apple Maps when you're reporting a speed trap or Waze if you're reporting a speed trap, hey, I saw something in public that I saw with my own two eyes that you can see with your own two eyes. I'm just pointing out where it is.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

DUFFY: Now, we also asked Apple for their comment on this situation. The company told us, "We created the App Store to be a safe and trusted place to discover apps. Based on information we've received from law enforcement about the safety risks associated with ICEBlock, we have removed it and similar apps from the App Store."

[13:10:02]

Now, I do think it's also worth noting that this comes at a time when Apple and its CEO Tim Cook have been working to strengthen their relationship with President Trump and the White House, as President Trump has threatened the company with tariffs.

We obviously don't know if that played a role here, but overall, I do think this situation does tell a story about the varying ways that the tech world is responding to President Trump and his policies. Back to you.

WHITFIELD: All right, Clare Duffy, thanks so much.

All right, coming up, a memorial is happening today for one of the two teen girls killed in a hit and run accident in New Jersey. Why the family believes this was no accident.

Plus, the federal government shutdown hits day four with no end in sight. We'll take a look at the key sticking points as Democrats and Republicans remain at a stalemate.

And rogue planets and interstellar comments -- comets rather. Our favorite astrophysicist is here to comment and unpack the wonders of the universe.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:15:46]

WHITFIELD: President Trump has given Hamas a deadline to accept his 20-point peace plan for Gaza. Hamas has agreed to immediate talks on a hostage release, according to Trump's plan, but has stopped short of accepting the full proposal. In response, Israel says it's preparing for the first phase of ceasefire plan that will possibly end the almost two-year-old war.

We'll have so much more on that straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:20:37]

WHITFIELD: All right, as the U.S. government shutdown drags on into its fourth day, Republicans and Democrats are dug in, hoping the other side will blink first. This weekend, no votes are expected after lawmakers headed home yesterday. But the impact of the shutdown is starting to be felt across the country.

Tens of thousands of government employees, including TSA agents, are being required to work without pay until the government reopens. And President Trump is threatening to use the shutdown to reduce the federal workforce even further and dole out political punishment. The White House says it's looking at laying off thousands of government workers, while Trump's Budget Director, Russ Vought, says he's freezing billions of funds for Democratic cities.

CNN's Camila DeChalus is in Washington following the latest force. Camila, how long might this go on?

CAMILA DECHALUS, CNN REPORTER: Well, Fred, at this point in time, we just simply do not know the answer here. Both sides, both Republicans and Democrats, can't really seem to find a path forward. Now, the big point of contention here on Capitol Hill is around this issue of the Affordable Care Act subsidies. This was passed within a legislation back in 2021, and it's set to expire next -- in the next two months and at the end of 2025.

And Democrats say that they want to address this issue of it expiring and trying to extend it in the new spending bill that they are hoping to pass. Now, Republicans say that they're open to discussing this issue and trying to extend it at some extent, but they don't want to discuss this now. They'd rather pass a clean CR bill and then discuss it in the later month or next month and so forth.

And so this is really the contentious issue here that both sides say that they do not want to negotiate on. Take a listen to what both sides are saying.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R), MAJORITY LEADER: We can't make commitments or promises on the COVID subsidies, because that's not something that we can guarantee that they're the votes there to do. But what I've said is I'm open to having conversations with our Democrat colleagues about how to address that issue. And I think that the -- that can't happen while the government is shut down.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D), MINORITY LEADER: We saw the Republicans run the same play, and they got the same result. The question is, will they change course? The votes aren't there. They thought they could bludgeon us and threaten us and scare us. It ain't working, because my caucus and Democrats are adamant that we must protect the health care of the American people.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

DECHALUS: Now, this is something I heard time and time again when I was on Capitol Hill yesterday, and that is Senate Democrats say that they're really adamant. They're doubling down here and saying that, no, we are not going to support any spending bill that you put forth if it does not include language to extend the Affordable Care Act subsidies.

And they really say that they're really -- they want -- they really understand that this is their only point of leverage at this point in time, and that this is something important to millions of Americans. Now, something interesting that happened yesterday was the Senate took up multiple votes on several proposals to try to reopen the government on spending bills, and all of those proposals failed.

So on that question of how long will this government shut down will last, I asked that question, and no lawmaker seems to know the answer.

WHITFIELD: All right. Camila DeChalus in Washington, let us know as you learn more. Thanks so much.

And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:28:37]

WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back. President Trump has given Hamas a Sunday deadline to accept his 20-point peace plan for Gaza. Hamas has agreed to immediate talks on a hostage release according to Trump's plan, but has stopped short of accepting the full proposal. In response, Israel says it's preparing for the first phase of the ceasefire plan that will possibly end the almost two-year-old war now.

CNN's Oren Liebermann is with us along with Andrew Miller, former Deputy Secretary of State for Israeli-Palestinian Affairs in the Biden administration. Good to see both of you.

Oren, you first. What happens if this deadline is not met, or at least what is the scenario right now?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF: Well, it seems like the starting of negotiations here, which appear to be imminent, effectively pushes the deadline at least a little bit. But President Donald Trump has also made it clear that these talks, these discussions to try to finalize a deal should not drag on for weeks. He clearly wants this to happen, and he wants it to happen quickly.

The fact that these are incredibly sensitive issues and that many of these gaps have not been bridged before, he's not so concerned about that. He wants to see results. That's part of the reason we saw him put so much pressure on Israel and effectively called on Israel to stop its bombing of Gaza, which really forced Israel's hands. In the past, Israel had said it would only negotiate with Hamas under fire, meaning it would continue bombarding Gaza as a way of attempting to put military pressure on Hamas.

[13:30:10]

Well, Trump effectively put an end to that with one post on social media.

So, now we have the sorts of ceasefire movements that we've been looking for for weeks, if not months, and the question is, will they come to fruition? U.S. Envoy Steve Witkoff, Jared Kushner, Trump's son-in-law, they're on their way to the region to try to get these talks going and begin a process here.

We are expecting to hear from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who was scheduled to give a statement about 25 minutes ago. That's a bit behind here. So, we're waiting to see that and what he will say as he prepares Israel's own delegation to head to these talks. That will be led by one of his closest confidants, Ron Dermer.

Crucially, we are now seeing the first responses from his far-right coalition partners, Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich and Minister of National Security Itamar Ben-Gvir, and they are slamming this agreement. Smotrich says it is weakness to negotiate with Hamas, not under fire, while Itamar Ben-Gvir says that he will quit the government if Hamas continues to exist. Well, that's a fundamental part of Trump's peace plan, that any member of Hamas who agrees to commit to live in peaceful coexistence with Israel will be granted amnesty, so it's hard to see how he's going to stomach this agreement and that causes problems for Netanyahu that we'll see play out here, Fred.

WHITFIELD: OK. Oren Lieberman, thank you so much. I want to bring in now Andrew Miller, former Deputy Secretary of State for Israeli- Palestinian Affairs in the Biden administration. Good to see you. So, in your view, how much pressure is Netanyahu facing domestically right now with this deal kind of hanging in the balance?

ANDREW MILLER, FORMER DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE/ISRAELI/PALESTINIAN AFFAIRS: I think there has been substantial domestic pressure on Netanyahu, both from the far right, as Oren was just describing, and the general public, which is in the diametrically opposed position for some time now, but that hasn't affected Netanyahu's calculus, or at least he's prioritized maintaining his coalition over popular support, and there are no means for the public to force out Netanyahu without the cooperation of other parties in his coalition, potentially bringing it down.

What may be more significant than the Israeli reaction is President Trump's reaction. If Netanyahu is seen as losing President Trump's support, that very well could lead to the demise of his coalition, in addition to the possibility that he moves forward with this agreement in the way that it was originally articulated and proposed, and both Smotrich and Ben-Gvir decide to leave the coalition. In that case, I'm confident that opposition Israeli leaders would join in order to buck up the government and allow them to move forward, but that will bring us closer to early elections in Israel, which Netanyahu wants to avoid.

WHITFIELD: Is there anything that you're reading into the relationship between Trump and Netanyahu with this latest sequence of events? Seemingly, it became very public by way of, you know, Truth Social and other means, and it almost infers that Netanyahu would learn about this, be the last one to learn about what was happening.

MILLER: I think we've seen ups and downs in the Trump-Netanyahu relationship, dating back to President Trump's first term in office as well. If you'll recall, when Netanyahu congratulated Joe Biden in 2020, Trump had some very choice words to say about Netanyahu, but they were able to continue in good rapport when Trump returned to office. We're definitely at one of those downswings where Trump seems to be very frustrated with Netanyahu. The proximate cause was the reckless Israeli airstrike on Doha, attempting to eliminate Hamas negotiators, but taking place in a country that is a non-NATO ally. The United States did not sit well with him.

We've seen this before, though, from President Trump. The question is, does he sustain this level of attention? There's always a question about whether he's going to remain focused. If he does focus, he's the one person who can apply the necessary pressure on Netanyahu to break through these logjams. But if he loses interest or Netanyahu is able to persuade him that the Hamas position is unreasonable, then Netanyahu could very well wriggle out of this dilemma.

WHITFIELD: And from diplomacy tactics standpoint, what are you reading into or deciphering from the special envoy, Witkoff, and Trump's son- in-law, Jared Kushner, arriving or heading to Egypt? Does this indicate a level of, you know, this is eminent or confidence?

[13:35:00]

MILLER: It doesn't necessarily indicate confidence, but it indicates a level of commitment and prioritization. Witkoff and Kushner would not be going if President Trump wasn't serious about trying to get this done. It's also significant that the talks are taking place in Egypt because the Egyptians have better relations with the Hamas military leadership, whereas Qatar's relationship with Hamas tend to be political.

What we've heard from the Wall Street Journal reporting is that the political wing wants to cut this deal under any conditions, whereas the military wing has some reservations, by Witkoff and Kushner going to Egypt and putting pressure on Israel, putting pressure on Egypt, the pressure, Hamas, they're trying to create that pressure cooker environment, which could lead to a breakthrough, but all depends on the positions that Hamas and Israel are going to take.

Is Hamas going to look at this as simply a negotiation over the immediate conditions for a release of hostages, following which there will be post-conflict discussions, which is Israel's preference, or are they going to insist on resolving everything up front? If it's the latter, we're not going to wind up in an agreement, and I think we'll see a quick restoration of the fighting, unfortunately.

WHITFIELD: All very fascinating. You've taken us into the many rooms here. Andrew Miller, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

All right. Still ahead, is there life on Mars, and what is a rogue planet? Our favorite astrophysicist, Neil deGrasse Tyson, is right here in our orbit. Can't wait to listen to his reply to the many questions coming from you and from so many about the wonders of the universe.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:40:00]

WHITFIELD: All right. It has been quite a big week here on planet Earth and even bigger out in space. Astronomers made an unprecedented observation of a rogue planet behaving more like a star. The free- floating planet is 620 light years from Earth and is growing faster than anything witnessed before. New research just released on Thursday found the planet gobbling up gas and dust at a rate of more than 6 billion tons per second.

What does all that mean? Well, we decided to call upon one of our favorite astrophysicists out there, the one and only Neil deGrasse Tyson. And he's, of course, the author of so many books, countless, but this is the latest one that you're going to find at your bookstores, "Just Visiting This Planet," and it's a continuation, if you were familiar with Merlin's tour of the universe. Well, this is kind of a part do. Can I say that?

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON, ASTROPHYSICIST, DIRECTOR, HAYDEN PLANETARIUM AND AUTHOR, "JUST VISITING THIS PLANET": Do it, it's fine.

WHITFIELD: OK. Very good. All right. great to see you. So, much to talk about.

TYSON: Yes, thank you. You set up the bat signal for cosmic inquiry and I had to come running to Atlanta.

WHITFIELD: And here you are, I'm so glad.

TYSON: I'm here in Atlanta.

WHITFIELD: And we're going to talk about your book and books in a moment, but first we're going to, you know, tackle and end your appearance here in Atlanta because I think that's a lot of fun too.

TYSON: Yes, tomorrow I'm at Fox Theater.

WHITFIELD: I know.

TYSON: The matinee.

WHITFIELD: I can't wait to talk to you more about that. TYSON: Don't ever think that I will ever grow accustomed to the fact that thousands of people will come to hear me -- to hear an astrophysicist talk for two hours.

WHITFIELD: Well, you're the only one --

TYSON: That's a crazy fact.

WHITFIELD: You're the only one that people will do that for. And, you know, they're going to be very lucky if there are still some tickets available because something tells me it's sold out, but we'll get to that in a minute.

TYSON: All right.

WHITFIELD: So, for now, let's talk about, you know, the strange things and wonderful things happening this way, this week in our solar system. So, talk to me more about this, this star or planet or why it is so unique that apparently these gases and, you know, gobbling up all this energy is something to be fascinated about.

TYSON: Yes, there's a mass range of objects that we would classify as a planet. And then, there's this sort of Netherlands between the highest mass planet and the lowest mass star. All right. And in there we have objects called brown dwarfs that we just -- we've come up with words for them. This planet is building as we speak. And --

WHITFIELD: And what does that mean?

TYSON: Well, it's accreting mass from its environment, getting more and more massive. And so, the question is, is there enough mass out there for it to trigger the transition to become a full red-blooded star? And -- but it's fun to catch one with this close now that we have badass telescopes that can check it out.

WHITFIELD: OK. And I was going to say, it's really not that it's close, it's these incredible telescopes can capture it.

TYSON: Yes. Well, a little bit of both. Yes.

WHITFIELD: So, how do you suppose that discovery was made? I mean, was it in the search of, oh, or something else? And then by the way, we see this activity and now it's a little closer.

TYSON: So, because it's accreting matter, that accretion rate is not constant. And when it's not constant, sometimes it's a lot and then it flares up.

WHITFIELD: Wow.

TYSON: And so, you can find these objects that go bump in the night. And that's always an interesting thing to track because something dynamic is happening. And if it would just stayed at a steady rate, it probably would have gone unnoticed.

WHITFIELD: Really? TYSON: Yes.

[13:45:00]

WHITFIELD: Oh, my gosh. And what --

TYSON: Oh, another thing is we have telescopes that observe like ultraviolet and x-rays, and anytime you have matter accreting and falling down into a small place, it'll emit x-rays and ultraviolet. So, you get an x-ray telescope and you just pick them out like that in ways that your optical telescope would not.

WHITFIELD: That is so exciting. And so, a number of scientists also say, you know, there's this growing evidence, you know, pointing to the existence of a hidden planet in our solar system. I want you to tell us more about that. This new study points to Planet Y as a potential candidate due to the disturbances in the, huh, belt. What is that called? Kuiper Belt?

TYSON: Kuiper Belt.

WHITFIELD: OK. Far beyond Neptune. OK. So, help us understand what this is all about because this is out there.

TYSON: Yes. So, you know, the itinerary of the planets that we have, the list of planets, we all know them. Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune. Get over it. Neptune.

WHITFIELD: OK.

TYSON: All right. So, now there's this population of objects beyond Neptune that was hypothesized by an astronomer mid-century, his name is Gerard Kuiper. He said maybe there's leftovers from the solar system that are out there, a repository of comets that would come in and visit every now and then. Pluto is in that belt. Pluto is more than half ice by volume. So, Pluto is a big comet.

All right. So, fine. But now, we have objects moving in this belt. And a couple of times in recent years, people have found objects moving in ways that maybe there's something tugging on them, influencing their trajectories.

WHITFIELD: OK. This is really fascinating.

TYSON: And if it's -- right. And that way you can infer the presence of a planet that is yet to be discovered simply by the gravitational actions of things in its vicinity.

WHITFIELD: And some of these things get named as a result of the person or the entity that kind of made the discovery or observation?

TYSON: We have rules about planets.

WHITFIELD: OK.

TYSON: OK. Herschel was the first to discover any planet at all. He discovered planet Uranus, but no one had named a planet before. He decided to name it after his funder, who was King George.

WHITFIELD: Oh, my God.

TYSON: This is late 1700s, the same King George of American Revolution, King George. So, for a while there, there's Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn and George. And so, we said, no, we can't have that people. And so, it took a few decades and we finally settled on Uranus.

WHITFIELD: So, this is why there are so many questions that people have. And this is why they ask you and you have compiled it in a book. And so, I want to talk about that after a short break for now.

TYSON: Will do.

WHITFIELD: There's so much more with the one and only, the greatest of all time, can I call you that, the GOAT?

TYSON: I --

WHITFIELD: OK. I'm going to call you that. The GOAT, Neil deGrasse Tyson. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:50:00]

WHITFIELD: All right. We are back with our special guest, Neil deGrasse Tyson, astrophysicist, author of the upcoming book, "Just Visiting This Planet." We're so excited to talk to you about this kind of continuation of "Merlin" because look, these books look very similar. "Merlin: A Tour of the Universe" came out last year, and now this is the kind of part two.

TYSON: Part two, it's like the sequel to "Merlin." Yes.

WHITFIELD: "Just Visiting This Planet."

TYSON: The questions that -- I had a column -- I wrote a column for like 15 years, a question-and-answer column, which I didn't realize at the time it was honing my methods, tools, and tactics in how I answer people's questions in ways that can maximize their interest and have them want to come back for more. And so, that's the -- And Merlin is a character I developed. Not the Arthurian Merlin, you know, there's more than one Fredericka in the world.

WHITFIELD: Right.

TYSON: OK.

WHITFIELD: Really? Is that true? OK. News flash.

TYSON: So, this one was born in the Andromeda Galaxy and has come to Earth and has studied Earth history.

WHITFIELD: And that's what makes it fun. TYSON: It makes it fun because people say, tell me about gravity. I don't quite understand. And Merlin recalls a conversation with Isaac Newton.

WHITFIELD: And that's what's so cool because you have this imaginary kind of, you know, starting point, but then you are delivering fact.

TYSON: Oh, yes.

WHITFIELD: And that's the educator in you where you're inundated with questions from people all the time.

TYSON: And my brother's an artist and he illustrated it.

WHITFIELD: And I love it. This is a family business.

TYSON: Yes, family affair.

WHITFIELD: So, let's give people just an example of what people have inquired about.

TYSON: Look how you --

WHITFIELD: I know. There's so much material. And this is just like, you know, a tiny microcosm.

TRUMP: OK. Bring it on.

WHITFIELD: OK. So, here we go. On Mars. So, this person asks, you know, Dear, Merlin, I recently read an interesting article on Mars and its early history. The theme was that life could have developed on Mars during its early history and that remnants or perhaps fossils could be awaiting either robot or human explorers. What are your ideas on what type of life may be developed? Then you actually answer. I'll give you a portion of the response because you gave a very comprehensive, lengthy one.

If the history of life on Earth is any indicator, Mars may have once been teeming with simple single-celled life forms and possibly primitive plants clustered near the flowing rivers. A life hostile change in Martian climate may have taken place early enough to arrest the evolution of complex life.

And actually, I should have you reading this because this is much better in your voice.

TYSON: Oh, OK.

WHITFIELD: You go. Why am I reading your reply? You do it.

TYSON: OK. And of course, the emergence of LGM, which is little green men, that would be, but the riverbeds might hold places for you have the evidence of fossils.

[13:55:00] So, Mars is bone dry today, but it's got bone dry meandering riverbeds, river deltas, flood plains. So, every time we send rovers there, we send them there.

WHITFIELD: Right. And that's why people are so curious and thinking if there is going to be, or if there was life, you know, then maybe the water, you know, can speak to it, or maybe it is a great --

TYSON: Correct. On Earth, every place there's water --

WHITFIELD: -- ground for potential.

TYSON: -- there is life, even the Dead Sea. And it was called the Dead Sea, they didn't have microscopes back then. There were no macroscopic fishes, but it's -- everything teems with life on Earth. So, if that happened on Mars, if an asteroid hit Mars back then, and it cast rocks into space, crossing interplanetary space, landing on Earth, it could be that we are all descendants of Martians.

WHITFIELD: Oh. my gosh. That would be something.

TYSON: Some people more than others.

WHITFIELD: Well, of course, that's always going to be the case. So, I wonder, are you as fascinated by the questions that people have sent you as people are demonstrating their fascination with the solar system through their questions?

TYSON: Yes. The German poet Rainer Maria Rilke has a poem with one of my favorite lines in it is, learn to love the questions themselves.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

TYSON: Because therein are the seeds of --

WHITFIELD: That's applicable to us in our business. But go ahead.

TYSON: Those are the seeds of curiosity. Curiosity enables you to become a lifelong learner.

WHITFIELD: That is so true.

TYSON: Yes. You don't want to become ossified just from your high school graduation.

WHITFIELD: No. You want to always be a student of life, is the way I like to put it.

TYSON: Thank you. Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Always be a student of life.

TYSON: Or a student of the universe.

WHITFIELD: Of the universe, that's right. And you're the educator of the universe. OK. So, here's another one. TYSON: Go for it. Go for it.

WHITFIELD: This is another one about Jupiter and the question to Merlin, I've heard so many interesting things about the planet and our solar system, but one thing still puzzles me. I know Jupiter is mainly gas with a red eye, but is Jupiter hot or cold? And then you, Merlin, says --

TYSON: Well, no. So, Jupiter actually is the only planet that gives off more energy to space than it receives from the sun. It's like leftover heat from when it might have once become a star, but didn't have enough mass to get there. So, Jupiter has -- is quite the unique object within our solar system, deserving of so much study.

And yes, it's -- Jupiter is -- I mean, it's warm, depending on where you are. If you --

WHITFIELD: What generates that energy, that heat?

TYSON: Well, some is left over from its formation and as chemicals settle out and move up and down, it can get colder or warmer. In the center, it's very hot and very high pressure. And so, yes, it's a fun place to visit.

WHITFIELD: Yes. So, there must be --

TYSON: Or to look from afar.

WHITFIELD: -- more than one of you, because not only do you write all these books, you appear on programs like this and so many other shows, but you also show up in cities. Like, you are going to be in Atlanta at the Fox Theater, usually the Fox, a place where people go see the Allman Brothers or, you know, they're going to catch the latest comedian. But you are going to be the center point of people coming to listen and hear. You're --

TYSON: It's a Sunday matinee, tomorrow, today's Saturday.

WHITFIELD: Yes. Tell me more about how this is.

TYSON: It's a crazy fest.

WHITFIELD: And it's really not related to your book tour.

TYSON: No, no. I'm invited to cities all the time.

WHITFIELD: I like it.

TYSON: And if there happens to be a book, then I'll give it a shout out, but that's not what's driving the occasion. It happens, my topic tomorrow is, this just in, the latest discoveries in the universe. But I'm in Evans, Georgia on Monday, Monday or Tuesday, and there I'm talking about -- one of my favorite subjects is, an astrophysicist goes to the movies. And I take all these movie clips and I just rail on them.

WHITFIELD: That's fun.

TYSON: Some, they get the science right. And I'm always there.

WHITFIELD: That must drive you crazy when you're watching certain things.

TYSON: A little bit. Just a little bit crazy.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

TYSON: And so, we have a fun time learning about what the right science is versus what was portrayed in the film. Like the movie "Armageddon," that violated more laws of physics per minute.

WHITFIELD: Were you screaming at the screen?

TYSON: Per minute.

WHITFIELD: Yes. Oh, wow.

TYSON: Yes. It's a fun movie and entertaining, but don't go there if you don't know your science.

WHITFIELD: It's kind of what happens to us broadcasters when you're watching a movie about broadcasting or television newsrooms, and you are kind of screaming like, that would never happen. We don't do that. So, that's kind of the parallel.

TYSON: Same thing.

WHITFIELD: OK. Very good.

TYSON: Exactly.

WHITFIELD: Neil deGrasse Tyson, what a pleasure, honor. Great to have you in person. I mean, it's so fun. We feel your magnetic personality and your knowledge when we have you from afar, but it's even better here in person. So, thanks so much.

TYSON: And I've Zoomed with you before. That's not the same thing.

WHITFIELD: I know. It's not the same.

TYSON: Right, right.

WHITFIELD: But it is equally great. I mean, this has been a super, super treat. And of course, if you're in Atlanta and if there are any tickets left, you need to go to Fox to see you.

TYSON: Yes, I haven't checked the sales yet. Yes. It's Sunday. Sunday matinee.

WHITFIELD: Yes. OK. Very good.

TYSON: Yes, thanks.

WHITFIELD: Thank you so much.

TYSON: All right.

WHITFIELD: Great to see you. All right. Hey, take a trip around the world now. A different kind of world. We're talking the food world with Tony Shalhoub to discover how bread connects us in the brand-new CNN original series, "Tony Shalhoub Breaking Bread." First stop, New York City. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY SHALHOUB, HOST "TONY SHALHOUB BREAKING BREAD": Oh, look at that beautiful thing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is just like the beauty of lamination.