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Sheriff: 19 Dead Or Missing After Massive Blast Levels TN Plant; TN Sheriff On Deadly Blast: "The Most Devastating Scene That I've Seen"; Trump Admin Lays Off 4,000 Plus Federal Workers Amid Shutdown. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired October 11, 2025 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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WENDELL PIERCE, ACTOR: By insurance companies that could not get insurance here. Burial plots couldn't get into hospitals. So they formed these social aid and pleasure clubs, pooled their money into that club, and said, when your mama takes sick, we'll take care of you.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: Be sure to tune in a new episode of New Orleans, Soul of a City airs Sunday at 10:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific on CNN. Hey, thank you all so much for watching. Anderson Cooper, 360 is next.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight on 360, the latest on a massive blast at a military explosives plant in Tennessee that's left 19 dead or missing, and law enforcement treating it as a crime scene. And later, the Trump administration following through on its threat to lay off federal employees during the shutdown. Tonight, the president says he's targeting people who are Democrat oriented. And the White House compares Antifa to Hezbollah, even ISIS. But what is Antifa exactly? And who are the people protesting in Portland on any given night?

Good evening. Thanks for joining us. We begin tonight with breaking news on an explosion at a military munitions plant that has left 19 dead or missing and a building completely destroyed. Described as a mass detonation event by authorities, the plant is located, at about an hour southwest of Nashville, Tennessee. The explosion rattled homes miles away. And I want to play for you how the sound of it was recorded on a few nearby residents security cameras.

Just to give some context on the extent of the damage, I want to show you some before and after images. This is a Google Earth image of what the plant looked like before the explosion. This is what it looks like today. When asked to describe the building, one local official says, there's nothing to describe. It's gone. The FBI and ATF are currently on the scene investigating along with other law enforcement agencies. Authorities can't say what caused the blast, but did say they're currently treating it as a crime scene. A local sheriff was asked late today what his experience has been like so far at the location.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SHERIFF CHRIS DAVIS, HUMPHREYS COUNTY, TENNESSEE: Hell you want to be -- to be honest, anytime we do something like this, that's just like I said in the flood, you know, it's hell. But from the time we try to start seeing what we're seeing, putting things together, talking to families, talking to victims, talking to interviews, and arranging it's hell. It's hell on us. It's hell on everybody involved.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Isabel Rosales is on the ground for us in Tennessee with more on how the day unfolded.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ISABELA ROSALES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): About 11 miles from the military explosives plant, a neighbor's doorbell camera captured the early morning blast, leaving multiple people dead or still unaccounted for.

DAVIS: We do have 19 souls that we're looking for.

ROSALES (voiceover): 19 people dead or missing since the massive explosion.

DAVIS: Can I describe the building? There's nothing to describe. It's gone. It's probably been one of the most devastating situations that been on in my career.

ROSALES (voiceover): The company Accurate Energetic Systems, about an hour southwest of Nashville, specializes in making military grade explosives like TNT and C4 for the U.S. Department of Defense, according to its website. And explosives for uses like controlling avalanches and clearing roads.

The cause of the early morning explosion, still unknown. These stark before and after images show the large scale devastation left behind debris found half a square mile away, according to the sheriff.

DAVIS: Do I see a short-term explanation? No. Do I see us being here for many days? Yes. I do see that.

ROSALES (voiceover): The small community left shaken and trying to come to terms with their loss.

VOICE OF KERRY ROBERTS, TENNESSEE STATE SENATE: It's hard to go anyplace in this rural community and not run into someone who has some kind of connection with this business.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: And Isabel Rosales joins me now. So what are authorities saying about any survivors?

ROSALES: Right, Anderson? They're saying that three people were treated for minor injuries because of the explosion. Two of them have been released. One is still receiving medical treatment. It's not clear how far or close these people were to the origin of this explosion. Now this is an expansive site located on 1,300 acres, essentially,

Anderson, a campus made up of multiple buildings. Public records show that Energetic, Accurate Energetic Systems has been awarded multiple military contracts, most recently just last month with the Department of Defense awarding them nearly $120 million for the procurement of TNT.

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Now CNN also spoke with a similar explosives facility based out of Texas. That president told CNN that this is a well-known company within the industry and that depending on the capacity, the quantity of explosives that facilities have, they have enough force to, quote, Anderson, destroy a small town. And we certainly saw that in those images.

COOPER: 19 dead or missing right now. Isabelle Rosales, thanks. I'm joined by former ATF agent Joseph Vince. He served as the head of the ATF National Response Team for the southeast regions, currently a lecturer in Mount St. Mary University.

Mr. Vince, thanks for being with us. Given the magnitude of this explosion, what I mean, what phase of the investigation do you expect authorities are in right now?

JOSEPH VINCE, FORMER ATF AGENT: Well, Anderson, this was obviously catastrophic, and there was probably significant other detonations that occurred after the initial one. And right now, the main focus is going to be on two things. One is safety for the investigators, and the other thing is gathering the remains. You want to be respectful to the family, and my condolences goes out to everybody in the community. This is truly a tragedy. After that, their blast scene investigation will begin once they know it's safe. And when I say safe, they have to make sure there's no toxins in there for the investigators and other things that could harden them because they can use means, using breathing apparatus and other means to protect themselves. But they have to do that first to get into the scene.

The next thing they're going to coordinate with their investigators that are doing the interviews with the company, interviewing with any witnesses that occurred there, and coordinate this with the blast scene investigation itself. Now that's important because you've got to get to the seat of the blast to find out how this originated. And I should bring up, it's a little unrelated, but very much related.

The Palisades fires investigation that just resulted in an arrest in California. Started it's a massive, massive fire. And yet they were ATF agents were able to find that seat of the fire where it originated, the origin of fire, and then from there track the individual that caused this tragedy from occurring.

COOPER: I guess part of, I mean one of the things, you know, in a wildfire fire investigators are able to do or look at any videos that may exist, traffic cameras, anything in a facility like this. I'm sure there were lots of cameras, but they've obviously would have been destroyed. I'm not sure where those images would be stored. But is it possible that there are video images from inside that still exist on a server somewhere far away?

VINCE: That's possible. As with the electronics that we have now, that is possible. But there's no way to tell because we don't know what their security was like. And that's the other thing they'll be looking at is their protocols and their safety procedures. As I've heard on today's reporting, there was one safety incident that occurred, a minor incident in 2014. Other than that, they have a clean record.

But with explosions, there's no do-overs. You only have one chance, and you have to be right all the time or something like this could happen. The other thing is that the team leaders in this investigation have to be critical thinkers because what you don't know, you don't know. So you can't put all your eggs in one basket. You have to look at what the evidence draws you to find what the conclusion is of this investigation.

COOPER: Yes, Joseph Vince I appreciate your expertise. Thank you.

Moving on to the shutdown, the latest people affected by it. Earlier today, Russ Vought, the director of the OMB, the Office of Management and Budget, posted this on social media. The rifts have begun. RIF stands for Reduction in Force. In other words, the layoffs threatened by the Trump administration, both leading up to and during the last 10 days of the shutdown, have started. We found out late today that more than 4,000 federal workers have been laid off today.

Kaitlan Collins, chief White House correspondent, anchor of the Source, joins me now with the latest. So what more did the president have to say today about laying off people?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, he's making clear why he's doing that, why he's doing this, which is to inflict pain on Democrats. And he's describing these federal workers as Democrat oriented and saying that the whole point of this is to punish the Democrats who have so far stuck together for the most part and refused to vote for that CR which would reopen the government and instead say they want an agreement with Republicans when it comes to extending the Obamacare subsidies.

And one thing we had heard from the White House was that this was going to be a painful decision that they'd be forced to make if the government stayed shut down simply because of the fact that the government doesn't have any money at this moment. But the president, when he was asked about this in the Oval Office just a couple of hours ago, framed it very differently.

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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: It would be Democrat oriented because we figure, you know, they started this thing so they should be Democrat oriented. It'll be a lot, and we'll announce the numbers over the next couple of days, but it'll be a lot of people, all because of the Democrats. These are people that the Democrats wanted that in many cases were not appropriate. We fought them at the time and it was ultimately signed in. And some of these people, these are largely people who that the Democrats want, many of them will be fired.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: And Anderson, just to note, you know, my team looked into this as this claim was going around when they were threatening this. No president in recent memory since the kind of modern definition of a government shutdown has ever had mass layoffs during a government shutdown. No president has ever canceled federal programs as a result of that. So what you are seeing is the White House and the budget chief, Russ Vought, who of course is the co-author of Project 2025 and talked about reducing the size of the federal government using this moment, which they warned Democrats would happen if the government did shut down, that they do this.

COOPER: Well, it's also incredible that he's saying this out loud of what metric they're using, which is people, I guess he views or they view somehow as Democrats or, you know, in league with Democrats. It's remarkable to hear a president of the United States say that. Kaitlan. Thanks very much.

Joining Kaitlan, The Top of the Hour for the Source. Her guest is going to be the New York Democratic mayoral candidate Zohran Mamdani.

Joining me now, CNN political commentator and Republican strategist Brad Todd and CNN chief political analyst and former senior adviser of President Obama, David Axelrod. David, whether it's a Republican president saying he's targeting Dem or Democrat oriented people or a Democrat saying they would target Republican oriented people, it's in normal times, wouldn't that be kind of outrageous?

DAVID AXELROD, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO PRES. OBAMA: Well, not even in abnormal times. It is outrageous, Anderson. And I can't honestly imagine any other president speaking this way. But it's consistent with the president's approach. He does not see himself as the president of the United States. He sees himself as the president of his supporters. He sees himself as a president as the leader of his party.

But the cuts that he's making are going to affect Republicans and Democrats. The services that are going to be impacted are going to affect Republicans and Democrats. And this is not going to bring closer a solution to the shutdown. What will bring closer a solution to the shutdown are rational people sitting down and talking through potential paths forward.

And as he suggested the other day, health care is the fulcrum of this because you have the Obamacare, the ACA tax credits expiring at the end of this year, which will affect tens of millions of Americans. That's what Democrats have Senator on. That's what they want to talk about.

So this only throws fuel on the fire and makes solving the problem much less likely. COOPER: Brad, if 4,000 people were laid off today, how do you think

the White House is going around determining that they're all Democrat oriented?

BRAD TODD, GOP MEDIA CONSULTANT AND STRATEGIST: Well, first off, let's put it in perspective, Anderson. 4,000 employees. We have 3 million government employees. And in fact, the Gallup is out with a poll today that says a majority of Americans think that the federal government is doing too much. Even a third of Democrats think the federal government is doing too much. So I think defending that we need every one of those 3 million employees is a loser for Democrats politically.

I think where the president is getting his rhetoric about what they're all Democrats is because the two federal employee unions, the two unions that represent federal employees, gave 100 percent of their money to Democrats in the last election. Now, that's very unusual. Almost no union or interest group gives 100 percent of their money to one party. I think that's probably he was shorthand --

COOPER: Which were the two unions on that?

TODD: The ask me and the NAFGE.

COOPER: So David, I mean then does that make sense to you that he's then targeting would be targeting two unions who had given funds to Democrats?

AXELROD: Here's what, here's what makes sense. What makes sense is to try and resolve this shutdown which is having increasingly negative impacts on people around the country. And that will compound over time. You're going to have people in service and people in critical government positions who are not going to be paid. And this is chaos.

This is fomenting chaos. And you know, I appreciate Brad. I, you know, in the administration, I was in Bill Clinton. Others have said we ought to rationalize the government. We ought to keep the jobs that are necessary. We ought to see how we can deliver services better. That's not what's happening here. This is a political purge.

I think it sounds like you're nostalgic for the good old days of DOGE. And we know that didn't work out very well because they had to end up hiring back people to do the jobs of the people who they fired because not enough thought was given to how this was done. This is not the process by which you make the government more efficient. And the fact that the president basically discusses it as a Democratic purge tells you all you need to know.

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TODD: David, you're right. It's not the way to get this solved. But the way to get it solved is for Democrats in the U.S. Senate to agree to let the Senate move and vote on the bill to keep the government open. We saw today CNN's own reporting said that a senior Democratic aide said they won't move until planes fall out of the sky.

So Democrats have decided that this is a political winner, that pain for America is a political winner. They don't have to vote for the bill. They just have to let the sink Senate vote for the bill. That's all they have to do. Then we can move on and discuss next year's budget, which they care about.

COOPER: All right, we're going to have to leave there.

AXELROD: They should -- oh, we got to go, huh?

COOPER: Yes. David Axelrod. Thank you, Brad.

AXELROD: The way it's always been resolved, and they should sit down and discuss it and not play games like this. But I'm sorry, Anderson. Go ahead, proceed.

COOPER: Yes, that's right. Up next to the federal indictment of New York's Attorney General Letitia James caught some key officials in the Trump administration off guard. And later, a former hostage held in Gaza for nearly 500 days talks about his captivity.

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ELI SHARABI, AUTHOR, "HOSTAGE": You think 50 meters underground, and you have a lot of time to think with yourself and then you understand what is really important in life.

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COOPER: We are learning tonight that the federal indictment of New York Attorney General Letitia James came as a surprise to a lot of people, including U.S. attorney General Pam Bondi, who runs the Department of Justice. Sources telling CNN that Lindsey Halligan, the new U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, presented the case herself to a grand jury yesterday without telling Bondi or other senior justice officials. Halligan was personally installed a few weeks ago by President Trump, who's promised to go after his political enemies. Letitia James is charged now with bank fraud and making false statements to a financial institution.

CNN has previously reported that sources said Bondi top aides viewed the case against her as weak. Let's talk more about it with Michael Moore, the former U.S. attorney for the Middle District of Georgia.

How unusual would it be for a U.S. Attorney to not alert the attorney general that such a high-profile indictment was about to be handed up?

MICHAEL MOORE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY, MIDDLE DISTRICT OF GEORGIA: Yes, well, I'm glad to be with you. It's completely unusual, and it's frankly contrary to department policy. There's policy out there called the Justice Manual, and it tells every U.S. attorney sort of how to run his or her office in each district, who you contact, what you do. And one of the primary things that you do is you make urgent reports when there's some particular issue that may be of particular concern or interest to the higher-ups at the Justice Department. And that is especially true when you're talking about whether or not you're going to indict or charge some type of public official.

And so this is really, it's abnormal, but it's probably in all candor, it's just more indicative of sort of the melee that's going on since Ms. Halligan's move over to the Eastern District of Virginia.

COOPER: Right. She's not an experienced prosecutor in any way.

MOORE: No, she's not. And she's not experienced. She's not experienced with the department, and you don't have to be experienced with the department, but you do have to be willing to read the books on how to do your job. And so clearly someone just missed that and didn't let them know. It doesn't change, frankly, the legal significance of the indictment. I mean, there still will be questions and motions to dismiss and those types of things. And so whether or not she let the boss know what she was doing is more an indication that just sort of how green she is in the role.

COOPER: How likely do you think it is that the James case makes it to trial, or the Comey case, for that matter?

MOORE: You know, I think it's going to be difficult for the government to move forward in the cases, and I think you're going to see pretty active motion practice by both defendants to have the cases dismissed. You've got certain things like vindictive and selective prosecution that will be an issue. And you're going to see the statement that Trump made directing the charges be brought. It's especially to me, more incriminating given the fact that it was now apparently intended to be a private communication. I mean, you know, what you do when you want things to be kept a secret and do something that's not right, you tell it privately as opposed to posting it, like he does on some other things that are a little bit outlandish that we've unfortunately become accustomed to.

So I think you're going to see that. I think you'll see a challenge to her, to Ms. Halligan's role as U.S. attorney, whether or not they actually have the authority to appoint her to fulfill the role, that's. That's going to be an issue.

COOPER: So CNN has learned, and we reported on this the other day, that from a source, that President Trump's truth social posts, which pressured Attorney General Pam Bondi to take action against James, Comey and Schiff, and Letitia James was meant to be a private message, not a public one. He calls her Pam in this, and it was later taken down. Does that matter from a legal standpoint? If the defense tries to use that post to prove vindictive or selective prosecution.

MOORE: It will matter to the judge, I think. I think it's the kind of thing that throws gas on the fire when you're making a motion to dismiss because of vindictive prosecution. If you think about this, if you have a social media post and you say, hey, let's go rob a bank, bring a gun and a fast car, you know that's bad. But whether or not they're going to prosecute you on that. If you send a secret note to your friend who happens to have a gun and a fast car and a ski mask and say, hey, let's go rob a bank, that's a little more indicative that you were serious about what you were doing and more what I would think would be sort of a direction to act. And so that's what you've got here is apparently he wanted to

privately tell his attorney general we need to move forward on these prosecutions because they're making us look bad. The problem is they brought in an inexperienced prosecutor, and they really brought what I would think are some of the weakest charges that I've seen to try to make their case. This mortgage fraud case is I don't know that it will withstand a good puff of wind.

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COOPER: It is amazing, you know, how much has occurred just in the it's not even the first year of this administration. What is -- I mean, what do you think the rule of law looks like in the next, you know, two years, three years plus?

MOORE: Yes, it's a great point. I've worried about that. You know, I've sort of always taken the position that the courts are going to be the thing that the body that would step in and give us some normalcy back, or be the ones who would say you've pushed too far. We're not going to let you do that. Unfortunately, what we've seen is a Supreme Court who really is not willing to call balls and strikes. And they typically don't call a strike unless it's from Trump's team. And so that's been troubling.

You're starting to see those district court judges really move forward and write some opinions questioning this expansive abuse of power that we've seen over the last several months. And so I'm hopeful that as those cases kind of work their way through and ultimately make it off of sort of the Supreme Court rocket docket, if we actually get into some real litigation about the cases, that we'll find judges and courts willing to stop it. But I worry that the attack on the rule of law has become sort of a sound bite and that we're becoming desensitized. And some of what is abnormal, we're now just taking it as normal because we're so inundated with it on a daily basis by the administration.

COOPER: Yes. Michael Moore, thanks very much.

MOORE: Thank you.

COOPER: Coming up next, my interview with a former hostage in Gaza about the president's peace plan and his hopes of being reunited with friends he was with in captivity who helped him survive. And later, President Trump says Portland's war ravaged, but a judge has halted his effort to send in the National Guard. A live report from Ground Zero, the protest site. Ahead.

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COOPER: New clashes this morning outside Chicago between protesters and local police at the Broadview ICE facility. Our affiliate WBBM reports the protesters were outside the area, the designated area for demonstrations, and several people were handcuffed. This comes after a court ruling Thursday pausing the deployment of National Guard troops in Illinois for now. Also today, a federal judge ordered federal officials to remove the eight-foot-high security fence on the street in front of that ICE facility by 11:59pm local time Tuesday night. Town officials filed a lawsuit saying it was installed without local permission or permits.

The president also wants the National Guard in Portland calling it war-ravaged. While that's been temporarily blocked by a federal judge, an appeals court that's taken up the case could rule on any day. As you know, the president hosted a White House roundtable on Antifa. The question is that who's actually behind some of the protests outside the ICE facility in Portland? Our Shimon Prokupecz is there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): Another night in Portland, a few more arrests. But that's not why we're here tonight.

KRISTI NOEM, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: You've got a presence in Portland that as that is Antifa affiliated.

PROKUPECZ (voiceover): We've come to ask Antifa thugs about Antifa.

PROKUPECZ: You're not Antifa, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, honestly, I don't even know what that means anymore because it's become such a corny label.

PROKUPECZ: Are you guys part of any organized group?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. I mean, you know, calling Antifa an organized group in and of itself is kind of like a misnomer, right? There is no organization of Antifa. I mean, I'm sure almost everyone out here is here just because they know someone else who's out here or they know someone else who's, you know, these policies are affecting, and they're out here for them.

PROKUPECZ: And no one's paying you to be here?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No one's here. No. Definitely not.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're here on our own. Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. There's no. Like, there's no one giving me orders, telling me to come out here. My mom called me when she heard I was going to come to this, and she was worried about me. And I'm like, mom, nothing's going on. You know, we're going to come out here, we're going to maybe, you know, dance to some music on a loudspeaker, take a picture with the frogs.

PROKUPECZ (voiceover): He's talking about all those people inflatable costumes.

PROKUPECZ: There are more costumes tonight, right? Than there's been. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've been hoping for this for months, actually.

PROKUPECZ (voiceover): Dustin Ragsdale is the guy in the panda suit. He's also a Navy vet, lives in the community, and has been here for over 100 days. He says the panda suit is a reaction to this.

NOEM: This network of Antifa is just as sophisticated as Ms. 13, CDA, as ISIS, as Hezbollah, as Hamas, as all of them.

DUSTIN RAGSDALE, PROTESTER: If Portland is being full on Portland and it's Comic Con out here, it's kind of hard to spin that narrative, calling us like terrorists and stuff when he's out here in funny costumes, dancing.

PROKUPECZ (voiceover): Live streamers are everywhere, many with their own point of view.

PROKUPECZ: Hey, how are you tonight?

PROKUPECZ (voiceover): So I asked these cops who have been here for months, what they've seen.

SGT. DAN DIMATTEO, PORTLAND POLICE BUREAU: There may be people who say. Who espouse those ideologies that say, like, like I said, there was a girl who was over here the other day yelling, I'm Antifa. We don't go around and poll the crowd to find out what they are. Because if somebody said, this person's Antifa, I don't believe they dress a certain way, or I'm going to be able to pick them out of a crowd. If those are your ideologies much the same way I wouldn't be able to pick different religions out of a crowd.

PROKUPECZ (voiceover): Protests over the summer were violent. The ICE building was closed for a few weeks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll move once they tell me to move.

PROKUPECZ (voiceover): Standing in front of the driveway is a nightly ritual. It's where federal officers and protesters clash as agents clear the sidewalk to make room for their cars.

PROKUPECZ: What is the worst part about this? Can we ask you or?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You just got to step back just a little bit for me, okay? Got to be an arm's length away.

[00:35:10]

PROKUPECZ (voiceover): Okay. What is the point of this? What is, I don't know. can you tell us.

PROKUPECZ (voiceover): When protesters get near the ICE property line agents fire pepper balls from the roof.

RAGSDALE: It's ridiculous because the peaceful protesters out here, we're armed with cardboard and we have megaphones and silly costumes. We're not the ones bringing the weapons loaded with poisons. PROKUPECZ: What's the end game here? What's -- what's the --

RAGSDALE: We want ICE to leave.

PROKUPECZ (voiceover): What's clear after this night. Protesters aren't going anywhere for now. What's not, finding someone to label Antifa.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: And Shimon joins us now. What have you been hearing about what a National Guard presence could look like in Portland if the administration wins an appeal it has pending in the federal court.

PROKUPECZ: So it's not clear entirely. Look, Anderson, by listening to that hearing, the appeals court, you can tell that they're inclined to give that president, the president, the power to bring the National Guard here. How that's going to unfold is entirely unclear. But let me just kind of quickly show you. If they were to come here, this is what they would see. I mean, it's people playing music. You have people in costumes everywhere here. Now it has grown so large in terms of the number of people that are wearing costumes, all in solidarity.

We have people down this street that are wearing costumes. And now this large group here every day, like more and more people, Anderson, are coming here in costumes while the border patrol and the DHS, and law enforcement, they continue to keep a watch over the building. Most of the time they're on the roof, and then they're also behind the gate.

And this is the scenes that have been playing out here certainly since last night. And as this grows, it becomes more of a party atmosphere. Hopefully that continues and we'll see if the National Guard actually gets sent here.

COOPER: Yes, let's hope there's no violence. Shimon Prokupecz, thank you. For more on what Antifa is and is, and I'm joined by CNN senior law enforcement intelligence analyst John Miller.

So, John, the White House is saying it's, you know, as organized as Hezbollah, ISIS, which, you know, massive global reach. There is a thing Antifa, is it more ideological as opposed to actual, an organized organization?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, the comparisons of Antifa to Hezbollah or MS-13 are just wrong. These are organizations that have organizational structures that have chains of command that have massive amounts of funding from foreign governments, in the case of Hezbollah.

But Antifa is an ideology. Calling it an organization would be like calling white supremacy an organization. It's an ideology, repugnant as it may be, and it brings together a collective of groups. Antifa does the same thing. And Antifa, through the ideology and the collective of loosely associated groups, they trade tactics. They trade information. They trade how to manuals in terms of how to organize, how to take on the police, how to do property damage, how to escape. So they are organized, but they're not an organization.

COOPER: You know, you saw the people in costumes outside that facility. We should also point out, look, there have been attacks on, you know, there was a sniper attack on a facility. There have been a couple of those. So things can obviously turn very quickly. What do you make of what you're seeing in Portland?

MILLER: So what I make of what I'm seeing in Portland is, you know, you have protesters who are trying to stretch that line to the point that they'll be pushed back by police. What we're not seeing is great deals of violence. What we are seeing is disorder that is purposeful, and that is not new. It's very much like what we saw in Los Angeles. So federal agents will confront them, in some cases police, depending on where you are, and they'll make those arrests.

COOPER: So if Antifa is more of an ideology than an actual organization with a headquarters and a leader for law enforcement, if they're going to investigate, what did they do? They follow a money trail. Would -- would, yes. What would they do?

MILLER: So that's going to be the real challenge. The way the White House has structured this, by designating Antifa as a domestic terrorist organization in an executive order. They have called it an organization and defined it as one, which is, if you've worked on cases involving Antifa activities across the country, hard to justify. They've also said that agencies should use the applicable law, but there is no applicable law to a domestic designated terrorist organization because while they define domestic terrorism in the law, it comes with no charges, no additional penalties, no additional resources that can be used. It's kind of a nod rather than a strategy.

[00:40:22]

So we dealt with this in New York. We dealt with this in LA when I was there. You know, these groups, they know what they're doing. They get money from non-government organizations. But if you look at the Trump administration strategy, it may be just to label groups that are protesting their initiatives as terrorists and to target those groups that fund them or fund groups that fund them as supporting terrorism.

COOPER: John Miller, thank you. Still ahead, former hostage in Gaza held for nearly 500 days, shares with me his thoughts on the president's ceasefire plan and how he hopes to be reunited with those he was in captivity with. Also, President Trump hoped to be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for his work there. And the conflicts and other hotspots instead has gone to Venezuelan opposition leader Maria Corina Machado. We'll have all the reaction, including what the president said about it, tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: The person who actually got the Nobel Prize called today, called me and said, I'm accepting this in honor because you really deserved it.

(END VIDEOTAPE) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:46:05]

COOPER: President Trump did not win the Nobel Peace Prize today as he hoped. Instead, the Nobel committee awarded it to Maria Carina Machado, a Venezuelan opposition leader who's been in hiding since the disputed election last year. The president spoke about the decision tonight, saying he's helped solve several wars, including securing the phase of or phase one of the Gaza cease-fire plan this week. And he had this to say about the winner.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: The person who actually got the Nobel Prize called today, called me, and said, I'm accepting this in honor of you because you really deserved it. A very nice thing to do. I didn't -- I didn't say, then give it to me, though I think she might have --

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Over years, of course, the president has been lobbying for the award.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: Everyone says that I should get the Nobel Peace Prize. I think I'm going to get a Nobel Prize for a lot of things. If they gave it out fairly, which they don't. I am asking them to give you the Nobel Peace Prize. I said, thank you. Many other people feel that way, too.

UNKNOWN MALE SPEAKER: You deserve the Nobel Prize.

TRUMP: Everyone thinks so, but I would never say, well, they should give me the Nobel Prize for Rwanda. I stopped wars from happening. If it were somebody else, they would have gotten five Nobel Prizes. They will never give me a Nobel Peace Prize. It's too bad. I deserve it, but they will never give it to me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: More now in today's announcement and the reaction from CNN's Tom Foreman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): After campaigning, pleading, prodding for years.

TRUMP: Where's my Nobel Peace Prize? I don't talk about.

FOREMAN (voiceover): President Donald Trump has lost again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You will be awarded the Nobel peace Prize for 2025.

MARIA CORINA MACHADO: Oh, my God. FOREMAN (voiceover): The winner is Maria Carina Machado, an outspoken

defender of democracy in Venezuela, where she's been forced into hiding by the authoritarian regime. Trump has previously praised her. But as her win was announced, a White House spokesperson griped, the Nobel Committee proved they place politics over peace.

on Capitol Hill, the president's party is bristling, too.

REP. BUDDY CARTER (R) GEORGIA: That's why he deserves the Nobel Peace Prize. And that's why I'm introducing a resolution.

FOREMAN (voiceover): For a sense of Congress today that will honor him with the Nobel Peace Prize. It's not clear how that would work, but they're not alone. Team Trump's peace efforts in the Middle East, past and present, prompted Israeli leader Benjamin Netanyahu to mock up a fake image of Trump with the medal and send a letter to the Nobel Committee.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's nominating you for the peace prize, which is well deserved and you should get it.

TRUMP: Thank you very much. This I didn't know.

FOREMAN (voiceover): Leaders in Pakistan and Cambodia have also praised Trump's peace efforts. Parts of Africa as well. I believe that he does deserve a Nobel Peace Prize, the president of Gabon said. And even Ukraine says it will back the prize for Trump if he ever delivers the peace he has promised their nation.

But Trump's unprecedented attacks on democratic norms at home, his calls for armed suppression of protesters, his legal pursuit of foes, pressure on education, business, the free press, and free speech have all spurred sharp criticism of his claim to being the peace president.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The peace president is sending a platoon to invade a yoga studio in Portland right now.

FOREMAN (voiceover): Perhaps that's why Trump himself admits he may never get a piece of that glory he so clearly craves and will.

TRUMP: They will never give me a Nobel Peace Prize. It's too bad. I deserve it, but they will never give it to me.

FOREMAN (voiceover): Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Just ahead, we're going to talk to a former Israeli hostage about his hopes for what's going to happen in the next few days.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:54:51]

COOPER: President Trump is expressing optimism tonight that the ceasefire between Israel and Hamas will hold and that it's a good deal. He'll visit Israel in the next few days, where he'll address the Knesset and then head to Egypt for meetings. The president also confirmed the hostages are going to be released on Monday and says this about the hostages who are deceased.

[00:55:09]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: They're also getting the bodies, approximately 28 bodies, and some of those bodies are being unearthed right now as we speak.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: With the ceasefire in place, Israel began withdrawing tanks and other military vehicles to specified areas of Gaza in accordance with the agreement with. While Gazans by the thousands are walking or crowding onto vehicles heading back to Gaza City and other northern parts of the Gaza Strip. Much of the area, of course, is completely destroyed. It's going to take years to rebuild. And they face lives that are forever changed by the death of family members and children, the destruction of schools and infrastructure.

A man named Eli Sharabi endured 491 days in captivity in Gaza, only to learn after his release in February that his wife and two daughters were murdered on October 7th. He's now written a firsthand account of his ordeal called Hostage, and he joins me now.

Eli, you have been a tireless advocate for hostages still in captivity, meeting with President Trump, speaking at the United Nations. How do you feel tonight, knowing they're supposed to be released within days?

ELI SHARABI, HELD HOSTAGE IN GAZA: Oh, I'm more than happy, you know, but we have the Sharabi's family, we have a mixed feelings about all this end because of my brother Yossi that been in, you know, hostage as well on October 7th and killed in captivity later, that we are going to get him, you know, his body now. So it's a bit of closure for us. Very sad closure. But I'm waiting to see my friend from captivity, Alain Hoyel (ph), and that will come to an end, all this nightmare for us, for all the Israelis, and we can start to heal from this trauma.

COOPER: During all your time as a hostage, you didn't have any information about your wife Leanne, about your daughters Noia and Yael, after you'd been taken from the kibbutz, you didn't know what had happened to them. How did you learn finally what had happened to them, that they had been killed?

SHARABI: I've learned about it only on the day of my release, February 8th, when I arrived to the Israeli border and I met the social worker from the IDF that approached me and said to me, your mother and your sister waiting for you in Raim camp. And I said to her, please bring me Liane and my daughters. And she said that my mother and my sister will tell me. And of course then I understood that the worst scenario happened to me. But I'm really grateful I didn't know that before in the days in captivity. Otherwise, I'm not sure I could survive this hell. COOPER: You had a very close relationship, almost a paternal

relationship with Alain Hoyel. What is it going to be like to see him again?

SHARABI: It will be amazing. After he will reunite with his family and hug them, and getting better a little bit. I hope I can see him, you know, in three or four days from his release, and I can hug him again. And that's a moment that I'm dreaming of something like 250 days since I left him.

COOPER: You were also held for a time with Hirsch Goldberg, Poland, and other hostages from the Nova Music Festival. And you've talked about how, and you wrote about in your book how Hirsch told you this phrase, he who has a why can bear any how, which is originally from Nietzsche, but it was also popularized by Viktor Frankl in his book Man's Search for Meaning. Can you just talk about what that phrase, he who has a why can bear any how what the importance of that. And also, what was Hirsch like in captivity when you saw him?

SHARABI: Unfortunately, I met Hirsch and know him just for three days. I wish I had more time with him. He was amazing, you know, fellow and had the privilege to know him for these three days until he moved, you know, he was removed to other tunnel. And the sentence he left with us from Viktor Frankl's book actually gave words to our behavior because each one of us knew why he's surviving for and who he's surviving for.

COOPER: You write about your captivity in the new book Hostage LH --