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Trump Says Ukraine Talks Going Well While Rubio Calls Negotiations 'Fragile'; Venezuela Accuses U.S. of Murder Amid Caribbean Boat Strikes; City Mourns at Least 146 Killed in Deadly Blaze; Heavy Rain Kills 900 across Indonesia, Sri Lanka, Thailand; Pope Leo Begins Three-Day Visit to Lebanon; Tour Guide on Visit to 'Fancy' and 'Modern' Pyongyang; Faberge Imperial Egg to Hit Auction on Tuesday. Aired 12-1a ET
Aired December 01, 2025 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, everybody. I'm Polo Sandoval, live in New York. It is great to be starting the week with you here on CNN NEWSROOM. And here's what's ahead.
[00:00:47]
U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio describing the latest round of Ukraine peace talks as fragile. President Trump says he thinks they can still reach a deal. We'll tell you what may come next in the negotiations.
Venezuela accusing the U.S. of murdering its citizens in strikes on alleged drug boats in the Caribbean.
And the pope calls for peace and unity in Lebanon as he begins his three-day visit to the crisis-hit country.
ANNOUNCER: Live from New York, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Polo Sandoval.
SANDOVAL: U.S. President Donald Trump. He is sending his special envoy to Moscow on Monday for talks to end the war in Ukraine. The Kremlin confirming that Russian President Vladimir Putin will receive Steve Witkoff sometime this week.
And this comes just hours after Witkoff, along with Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Donald Trump's son-in-law held talks with high-level Ukrainian officials in Florida.
Trump says that those discussions, that they went, as he put it, "well," and that he still thinks that a peace agreement is possible.
But Rubio warning that negotiations are still fragile and, quote, "complicated." He also emphasizes that Russia also needs to have a hand in crafting this peace deal.
Meanwhile, Ukraine's president is continuing his diplomatic push for favorable peace terms. Volodymyr Zelenskyy will be traveling to Paris in the coming hours to meet with French President Emmanuel Macron. I'll speak to a former diplomat in just a few moments to get his read on the situation.
But first, let's go to CNN's Betsy Klein for the latest on the negotiations.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: President Trump told reporters on Air Force One Sunday evening that he still believes there is a good chance that a deal --
KLEIN (voice-over): -- can be made to end Russia's war in Ukraine.
And he says he was briefed by Secretary Rubio and special envoy Steve Witkoff after they emerged from talks with top Ukrainian officials near Miami. Listen.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Ukraine's got some difficult little problems. They have some difficult problems, but I think Russia would like to see it end. And I think Ukraine -- I know Ukraine would like to see it end.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You just said that Ukraine has a little bit of problems.
TRUMP: Well, we have a corruption situation going on, which is not helpful. There's a good chance we can make a deal.
KLEIN: Those comments come after a top aide to President Zelenskyy, Andriy Yermak, resigned from his post earlier this week after an anti- corruption probe of his home --
KLEIN (voice-over): -- leaving Zelenskyy and the Ukrainians without one of their top negotiators, who has been involved in these very intensive discussions.
Now, Rubio, speaking to reporters after those talks, really tempered expectations here. He said that there were three key goals.
KLEIN: No. 1, to end the war. Two, to keep Ukraine safe from a future invasion. And third, to position Ukraine well economically.
He said there is still more work to be done. He called these talks delicate and complicated, but he did not lay out any specifics about what progress was made.
KLEIN (voice-over): Rubio also acknowledging this very challenging reality that Russia is ultimately going to have to sign off on whatever deal they are able to agree to.
KLEIN: There are three key sticking points remaining. No. 1, the question of land and whether Ukraine would surrender key territories in the Donbas region that have been annexed but not yet conquered by Russia. Separately, proposals for Ukraine to limit the size of its military.
And third, the question of whether Ukraine is willing to abandon its desire to join NATO.
KLEIN (voice-over): Steve Witkoff, the president's top advisor, is expected to travel to Moscow on Monday for additional talks.
KLEIN: Betsy Klein, CNN, the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANDOVAL: Joining us now is John Herbst. He's a former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine and senior director at the Atlantic Council's EurAsia Center.
Welcome back to the program.
JOHN HERBST, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: My pleasure.
SANDOVAL: So, Mr. Ambassador, Secretary of State Marco Rubio, he described the talks as delicate and complicated. You're an experienced diplomat. I'm wondering if we can help -- if you can help us translate exactly what that could potentially mean.
What's your assessment of where these negotiations could stand after Florida?
HERBST: Well, I think that Secretary Rubio went in there looking to see if Ukraine was willing to be more flexible on some of the points that were probably removed from the 28-point draft.
[00:05:14]
Difficult issues relating to security, relating to possible territorial compromise, relating to Ukraine -- the size of Ukraine's military, restrictions on Ukraine's military. Because the administration thought that some -- some of those points might be helpful to persuading Russia to say yes.
SANDOVAL: What red lines do you believe that Ukraine has drawn when it comes to their main sticking points? You mentioned flexibility. That's certainly very important right now in these negotiations, especially after that Oval Office visit earlier this year.
I'm sure that certainly there's pressure on Ukraine to -- to demonstrate that they're there to negotiate in good faith. But when it comes to perhaps land concessions, their military, or NATO ambitions, are there any red lines that Ukrainians are drawing?
HERBST: Well -- well -- Ukraine needs to see a full package -- full package, not just a partial package -- which makes clear or ensures the country's sovereignty, security, and territorial integrity are along the lines of the agreements. In other words, so the question about territorial integrity is an important one, because Russia occupies approximately 20 percent of Ukraine.
And Trump's proposal is that the peace deal would involve the sides roughly retaining the territory they currently hold. Roughly. There could be some -- some switches.
And there's no doubt that the 28-point plan that was first tabled by the Trump team includes points which are dangerous to Ukraine's future survival and, for that matter, which are not very sound in terms of American interests, in my opinion.
Because it's critical for the United States that any peace deal that Trump achieves be what he wants it to be, meaning durable. And if Ukraine is sufficiently weakened by terms of an agreement, then Ukraine's future is in doubt.
And some of those points would have made Ukraine much weaker than it should be.
SANDOVAL: Let's look at what's -- what's still to come here because of the initial plan that was essentially a Russian wish list, as we understand it. Do you see Putin accepting any of the modifications that came out of not just Florida, but Geneva before that? Do you see the Kremlin pushing back on any of these revisions when Steve Witkoff meets with President Putin?
HERBST: It's -- it's highly unlikely that they would accept, that Putin would accept the document reached in Geneva. And in fact, he -- he basically distanced himself from that, comments that he made, 2 or 3 days ago.
Whereas he was quite -- he was pleased but had not -- did not accept the 28-point plan, which included lots of Kremlin-friendly language. Even then, he would have pushed for more.
Putin has shown no flexibility thus far, or a tiny flexibility, maybe more accurately. Ukraine has shown extraordinary flexibility, and they've accepted pretty much every proposal Trump has put on the table since mid-March. And the Russians have accepted none of them.
SANDOVAL: So, if -- so, where does that leave us, then? Assuming that -- that we do see that play out that way, that the Kremlin remains reluctant to budge? I mean, does this back and forth continue? Is there a -- is there a point when it just becomes too much?
HERBST: I think it will continue, because I think Trump truly wants to reach a deal.
The problem is that there's a reluctance in the administration, in Washington, to think seriously about what Putin's goals are and what we would need to do to achieve Trump's clear goal of a durable peace.
Putin wants political control of Ukraine. He doesn't want the fighting to stop, which is why he's rejected every Trump proposal. Putin thinks he can win this war, because he thinks, one, he can outwait Trump, as he has outwitted numerous Western leaders in their support for Ukraine.
And two, he can charm President Trump. And he's had some success with that, but not nearly as much as he would like. As Trump has said publicly, you know, Putin may be trying to play him.
So -- but the administration has not drawn the necessary conclusions. If Trump truly wants a durable peace -- and I think he does -- he's going to have to make it extremely uncomfortable for Putin to continue the war.
And that means two things. One, more pressure on the Russian economy. A lot more. And two, far more advanced arms for Ukraine, which Europe and Ukraine can pay for, per Trump's own wishes, to make it clear to Putin that he's not going to win much more territory, or perhaps no territory at all, by continuing the war.
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That's what the administration needs to do to achieve its objective.
SANDOVAL: Yes, anything could certainly happen, but it does seem to be unlikely that this war would end before Trump hits his first year in the second term.
But again, anything can happen.
HERBST: Correct.
SANDOVAL: We'll be watching this meeting with Putin and certainly also be meeting the -- watching the meeting with President Zelenskyy and the French president happening in the coming days.
Thank you so much for your time, John Herbst, as always.
HERBST: Thank you. My pleasure.
SANDOVAL: Some U.S. lawmakers, they are growing increasingly concerned that the Trump administration could be guilty of a war crime in the Caribbean. Here's why.
Over the weekend, reports surfaced that the U.S. conducted a double- tap strike on an alleged drug boat in early September with a secondary attack which killed the survivors and ultimately sank the vessel. That has drawn some bipartisan backlash, as we shared with you just a few days ago.
Democratic Senator Mark Kelly now says that the Armed Services Committee will be holding a public hearing on the potentially illegal military order.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): If that is true, if what has been reported is accurate, I've got serious concerns about anybody in that, you know, chain of command stepping over a line that they should never step over.
We are not Russia. We're not Iraq. We hold ourselves to a very high standard. Going after survivors in the water, that is clearly not lawful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANDOVAL: And despite the accusations, President Trump defended his defense secretary aboard Air Force One.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you talk to us a little bit about the strikes and the controversy around the secretary of defense, Pete Hegseth?
TRUMP: I don't know anything about it. He said --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "The Washington Post" reported --
TRUMP: He said he did not say that, and I believe him 100 percent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't know if --
TRUMP: You're talking about the two men?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The second strike to kill the two men.
TRUMP: No, I -- he said he didn't do it. He said he never said it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you be OK with that if he did?
TRUMP: He said he didn't do it. So, I don't have to make that decision.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANDOVAL: And all of this is coming as Venezuela accuses the U.S. of murder, publicly acknowledging for the first time that some of its citizens have been killed in some of these boat strikes that we've been seeing since early September.
On Sunday, President Trump confirmed that he recently had a phone call with his Venezuelan counterpart, Nicolas Maduro. But President Trump did not provide any details of what they discussed, and the head of Venezuela's National Assembly also declined to discuss the conversation.
Here's CNN's Stefano Pozzebon with the latest out of Caracas.
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STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Nicolas Maduro, the Venezuelan leader, is yet to confirm whether he spoke with the U.S. president --
POZZEBON (voice-over): -- Donald Trump, in the last few days.
Trump did confirm it to reporters on Sunday.
However, while appearing on television, also on Sunday evening, Maduro did not make any reference to the alleged phone calls.
It was remarkable to see Maduro on TV here in Caracas, because the last time he appeared on Venezuelan TV was last week, on Wednesday. That had led to some speculation that Maduro might have left the country, or he'd been hiding amid the tensions between Washington and Caracas.
And Sunday's late-evening appearance at a coffee fair in the center of Caracas seemed to dispel those rumors.
Earlier on Sunday, the Venezuelan president of the National Assembly, Jorge Rodriguez, had accused the United States of extrajudicial killing, confirming to CNN that several of the victims of kinetic strikes against alleged drug traffickers were indeed Venezuelan citizens.
Rodriguez did not confirm how many Venezuelans had been killed in the strikes. However, he had this to say about the U.S. policy.
JORGE RODRIGUEZ, VENEZUELAN NATIONAL ASSEMBLY PRESIDENT (through translator): As there's no war declared between our two countries, what's been happening doesn't deserve any other qualification than murder. Extrajudicial killings. As nobody in the 21st Century can think they are judge and executioner without any due process.
POZZEBON (voice-over): The U.S. has so far conducted more than 20 strikes, killing at least 80 people under the accusation of trafficking drugs.
However, the White House is yet to provide any conclusive evidence that these people were, indeed, involved in narcotics.
And last week, CNN was able to confirm --
POZZEBON: -- that the secretary of defense, Pete Hegseth, had called for a second strike after an earlier strike on September the 2nd had left survivors.
For CNN, this is Stefano Pozzebon, Caracas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANDOVAL: Venezuela's president also is accusing the U.S. of wanting to seize its oil reserves.
In a letter to the head of OPEC, Nicolas Maduro claims that the repeated threats by the U.S., that they are endangering the stability of Venezuela's oil production.
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So far, the White House has not commented on that, but Venezuela is believed to have some of the largest oil reserves in the world, and it was also one of the original founding members of OPEC some 65 years ago. That organization aims to ensure oil market stability among its member nations.
Let's stay in Latin America, where Honduras is also awaiting the results of its presidential election, in a very tight race that was pretty much thrown a curve ball with a late surprise endorsement by none other than U.S. President Donald Trump.
Polls closing there. They actually closed there on Sunday with three potential frontrunners. Security, jobs, those remain voters' top priority, but the election has so far been defined by accusations of fraud.
As for the Trump administration, it sees the election as an opportunity to flex its influence in Latin America. President Trump, threatening to cut funding from the country if his preferred right- wing candidate lost -- actually loses.
And President Trump has also shocked Hondurans, when he announced that he would pardon the country's former president, Juan Orlando Hernandez. He's serving a 45-year prison sentence in the U.S. for drug trafficking. And that's similar to the charges that President Trump is currently alleging against the president of another Latin American country, Nicolas Maduro of Venezuela. We just discussed that.
Our Dana Bash pressed one of the president's supporters in the U.S. Senate, Republican Markwayne Mullin, about that.
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DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: He is clearly very concerned about Central and South American presidents allegedly trafficking drugs to the United States. So, if that's the case, why is he planning to pardon the former Honduran president, who was convicted by an American jury of drug trafficking?
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-OK): I think by building new relationships, by allowing people to have a new beginning, he's showing good faith, saying, Hey, we're going to work with you as long as you work with us. The minute you want to come punch us in the face, you want to continue to send your illegal drugs to us, we're going to be very proactive against you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANDOVAL: Nearly 40 people are still missing in Hong Kong after the city's worst fire disaster in decades. We'll take you to the scene, where authorities are combing through the wreckage of ruined apartments, as they are desperate to find answers.
And also, these devastating images coming out of Sri Lanka. Hundreds are dead after a cyclone sweeps through the island nation and other parts of Southeast Asia. We'll get you an update on the recovery efforts there.
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SANDOVAL: Well, authorities in Asia, they're combing through hundreds of ruined apartments as they search for people still missing after the deadly building fires in Hong Kong.
At least 146 people have been confirmed dead when that seven high -- when that -- when seven high-rise apartment blocks caught fire days ago. About 40 people still missing.
For the latest now, let's go to CNN's Kristie Lu Stout, who's live in Hong Kong at the scene.
Kristie, it's great to have you there as that investigation continues. What's the latest on the case and also the search for answers for the families of those dozens of people whose whereabouts are still unknown?
KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN ANCHOR/CORRESPONDENT: Polo, this is a city that is united in mourning. Hong Kong is in mourning after the horrific high-rise fire that took place here at a residential complex in Tai Po.
And this is a fire that took the lives of at least 146 people. Forty people are missing, and we are bracing for that death toll to rise.
Among the dead and missing, you have local Hong Kong residents, including the elderly. You have a Hong Kong firefighter. You also have caregivers, female migrant workers from the Philippines and Indonesia.
Thousands of people have been displaced as a result of this tragedy. And on Sunday, we witnessed about 1,000 people come here to pay tribute and to mourn all that was lost.
And on this day on Monday, we've been seeing a steady stream of Hong Kong residents come through, bearing white flowers and chrysanthemums to remember the dead.
An official investigation is underway, an investigation that could take 3 to 4 weeks. Hong Kong police have released photographs revealing the charred interiors inside the building complex as they carry out that delicate operation of recovery.
We've also learned that, from what we're hearing from authorities, is that the fire took place during the time of renovations, when the building was surrounded by this green mesh that authorities now say was not up to safety standards, as well as these polystyrene foam boards that were highly flammable.
And I want to share with you recent comments from Chris Tang, who is the Hong Kong security secretary, and bring it up for you. He said this on Friday, that the fire "ignited the mesh nets and quickly spread to the polystyrene boards around the windows, resulting in the fire in other floors and buildings," unquote.
Residents here are still trying to make sense of this tragedy, and they also want accountability. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN CHAN, TAI PO RESIDENT (through translator): Our Tai Po district might be the safest neighborhood in Hong Kong. Crime rate is very low. But low crime rate does not mean no casualties. There are human errors, wrong decisions being made, and greedy people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STOUT: Again, the death toll currently stands at 146. About a dozen arrests have been made after what has become the worst fire here in Hong Kong, the worst fire ever seen in 80 years.
Back to you.
SANDOVAL: Yes, the charred facades of those buildings behind you, Kristie. Such a heartbreaking reminder of what happened there just days ago.
Kristie Lu Stout with that live report out of Hong Kong.
Well, at least 900 people, they have been killed after storms triggered flooding and landslides across Southeast Asia and Sri Lanka.
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Hundreds more are still missing, with millions affected as the disaster damaged homes and cut off entire communities from critical supplies.
Here's my colleague Ben Hunte with more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN HUNTE, CNN ANCHOR/CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A military helicopter carrying supplies flies high above a flood-stricken area in Indonesia. Reaching some remote provinces by land isn't possible right now after floods and landslides blocked roads and washed away some communities on the island of Sumatra.
But the aid is desperately needed. In Indonesia alone, authorities say hundreds of people have been killed and hundreds more are still missing, and survivors in the hardest hit areas say they've lost everything. Like this woman. Her house swept away in the floods, except for one wall that's still standing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): This was my home. I have nine of my family members here. We have nothing left. Everything was gone. We only had the clothes on our backs. We couldn't bring anything else.
When it happened, the water just rose up into the house, and we were afraid, So we fled. Then we came back on Friday, and the house was gone. Destroyed. HUNTE (voice-over): Last week's torrential rains also battered nearby
Thailand. In the city of Hat Yai in the South, a bridge is filled with stranded vehicles, and much of the surroundings are submerged after the city experienced the most rainfall recorded in some 300 years.
Cleanup is underway, and the water has receded in some areas, but power hasn't fully been restored. At least one shopkeeper in a flooded-out market says she's selling her muddy goods at a fraction of the cost to flood victims who have little left and are looking for anything salvageable.
PATCHAREE NADEERUK NA PHUKET, SHOP OWNER (through translator): I need to clear the stock. The condition they're in after being flooded, shoes soaked and ruined like this. People don't have clothes, right? So, I'm helping by selling everything cheaply so they can have something to wear.
HUNTE (voice-over): Meanwhile, Sri Lanka in South Asia is grappling with flooding caused by a cyclone that blew through the island nation just days ago. Officials say hundreds of people have been killed. Parts of the capital, Colombo, and a neighboring district are still flooded.
Authorities say more than a million people have been affected nationwide, and many homes have been destroyed.
MALIKA KUMARI, FLOOD VICTIM (through translator): It rained nonstop for three days. We heard about the warnings of flooding, but we didn't expect water levels would get this high.
HUNTE (voice-over): Volunteer groups are setting up makeshift kitchens to provide food, but with some places still flooded and without power, clean-up and assessing the damage is still a long way off.
Ben Hunte, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANDOVAL: Still on the way, Pope Leo is in Lebanon for the second leg of his historic trip abroad, bringing a message of peace and of unity to this crisis-hit country. More on that after the break.
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[00:32:45]
SANDOVAL: Welcome back. I'm Polo Sandoval, live in New York, and these are today's top stories.
The Kremlin says that Russian President Vladimir Putin will receive Donald Trump's special envoy in Moscow this week, Steve Witkoff. He is set to travel to Russia today for negotiations on a U.S.-backed plan to end Russia's war in Ukraine.
His trip coming the day after he and other U.S. officials held talks with high-level Ukrainian delegations in Florida. President Trump confirming that he recently had a phone call with his
Venezuelan counterpart, Nicolas Maduro. But he didn't give away any details about what was discussed during that call.
The Trump administration continues to ratchet up pressure on Venezuela, warning that land strikes on suspected drug traffickers inside the country could be coming soon.
Honduras is awaiting the results of a close presidential race. Right now, the conservative National Party candidate, Nasry Asfura, he's in the lead with 34 percent of votes counted, according to the country's electoral authority.
President Trump surprised voters with a late endorsement for Asfura and even suggested withholding aid to Honduras if the right-wing candidate loses.
Pope Leo XIV, he's calling for peace and unity in Lebanon. And this as he begins his three-day visit to the crisis-hit country, his arrival coming just a week after an Israeli airstrike killed five people in Beirut.
He will be taking part in interfaith gatherings and will also be meeting with political leaders, as well as young people in that country during his visit.
For the latest now, we go to CNN's Ben Wedeman.
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BEN WEDEMAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: On the second and last leg of his first trip abroad as pontiff, Pope Leo landed in Beirut Sunday, driving through the city's Southern suburbs, bombed by Israel during the recent war.
Reaching the presidential palace in the pouring rain, the dancers on hand, undeterred, showering the Popemobile with rice, a traditional Lebanese greeting.
Lebanon's government made the theme of this visit "Blessed Be the Peacemakers." The phrase in Arabic, French and English on posters around the capital.
[00:35:07]
Lebanon has a large and influential Christian minority, which has seen its numbers in recent years fall as a result of war, instability, and a collapsed economy.
Speaking before a gathering of senior government and political officials and diplomats, Pope Leo stressed the need for unity and harmony among Lebanon's diverse religious communities and the country's desperate need for a respite from war.
POPE LEO XIV, LEADER OF CATHOLIC CHURCH: It is a great joy for me to meet with you and to visit this land, where peace is much more than just a word. For here, peace is a desire and a vocation. It is a gift and a work in progress.
WEDEMAN: But peace here is elusive. The one-year-old U.S.-brokered ceasefire is beginning to fray --
WEDEMAN (voice-over): -- with Israel carrying out almost daily air and drone strikes, just a week ago, killing a senior Hezbollah commander in Beirut's Southern suburbs.
WEDEMAN: But until Tuesday, when Pope Leo departs, Lebanon will be distracted by a packed schedule, taking the pope to the mountains of Lebanon, the Christian heartland, and back to Beirut for a silent prayer at the site of the August 2020 Beirut port blast, followed by a huge mass on the city's waterfront.
I'm Ben Wedeman, CNN, reporting from Beirut.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANDOVAL: So, what does Pope Leo's trip mean for Catholics around the world, and especially for the Middle East? Let's get some analysis now from Gabriel Said Reynolds. He's professor of Islam and Christian theology at the University of Notre Dame.
Gabriel, welcome to the program. Thanks for staying up late for us.
GABRIEL SAID REYNOLDS, PROFESSOR OF ISLAM AND CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY, UNIVERSITY OF NOTRE DAME: Hello, Polo. Glad to be with you.
SANDOVAL: It's great to have you here. I'm curious. Let's get your initial thoughts. What do you make of Pope Leo's first trip abroad?
And -- and do you think that he's been able to clearly define himself, not just as the head of the Catholic Church, but also Vatican head of state?
REYNOLDS: That is absolutely the key question, the heart of the challenge for the Holy Father. And it's interesting to note that there's a sort of transition between the first leg of his journey, where he was in Turkey.
And there, there were really theological sort of church issues as he met with the ecumenical patriarch.
But now in Lebanon, sort of political issues are front and center. There are sort of political questions in the region, but also internal dynamics that are key to his visit in Lebanon.
SANDOVAL: Those political issues that you mentioned, they are often delicate matters to handle here. I'm curious from your perspective, Gabriel, what challenges come with the head of the Catholic Church visiting a Muslim-majority country, or countries, I should say? I mean, Christians have ancient roots there, but -- but congregations have been shrinking.
REYNOLDS: Right. Absolutely. So, it's important to sort of emphasize the legacy of the church in Lebanon. People sometimes think, oh, the Middle East is a purely Muslim land.
It's only in that whole region. You know, Christians, have almost only a marginal place or almost no place at all. But there's an ancient Christian heritage which is really diverse within the Christian populations.
The largest Christian community there are Maronites, and they are in union with the Catholic Church. But there are also orthodox and protestant churches there, as well.
But as you mentioned, the Christian presence has been shrinking. Really, that's been a long process, but it was kind of turbocharged by waves of violence.
First, the civil war between 1975 and 1990, '89-'90; and then the ongoing conflict in the region with Syria and everything that, you know, what went down with the Syrian civil war.
And then, of course, the ongoing Arab-Israeli conflict, which just has had devastating impacts on -- on Lebanon and, you know, the ripple effect of the Lebanese economy, which has also been damaged, as well.
SANDOVAL: The ripple effects. And then there's also just an incredible amount of symbolism. I want to -- I know you've seen some of these pictures. I'll play for viewers again. Well play them for viewers again, where you see the Holy Father arriving there in Lebanon.
And I was struck as you see him being driven through communities that were previously bombed by Israel. When you, in seeing some of these pictures, what message do you think that it sends to the world, beyond just -- just bridging different religions and -- and different societies?
REYNOLDS: Yes, absolutely. A key point to note there is that the -- the Beirut airport is in the Southern suburbs of Beirut, a region known in Arabic as Deir, which is overwhelmingly Shiite. And as you allude to, overwhelmingly, was sort of the center of the bombing campaign of Israel. And so, it was devastated.
And, you know, some might say that there's sort of showmanship going on. But it's -- you know, from the visuals and from all of the signs that were displayed there, the Shiite community really welcomed the visit of the Holy Father.
[00:40:11]
And then we saw that also. in the meeting that took place Sunday evening, where not only the Christian president, but also the Shiite leader of parliament and the Sunni Muslim head of government, also met with Pope Leo.
So, there is a sense that this visit is meant to show that, you know, through a common faith in God, but also in a common faith in the future of Lebanon. Those sort of divisions can be overcome.
SANDOVAL: Can you expand on what the role papal diplomacy is when it comes to, I shouldn't say, just establishing peace in the Middle East. That's -- that's been a struggle for as long as we can remember.
But is there a difference that the pope visiting there on the ground can actually do for the region in terms of easing tensions, do you think?
REYNOLDS: I -- I think a key question for Pope Leo the XIV, in particular, is sort of presenting the Vatican as an institution which has a common humanity as its principal concern.
You know, Pope Francis or the predecessor Pope Leo signed this document with the grand imam of al-Azhar in Egypt. That massive, important Islamic institution called human fraternity.
So, I think that is above all, what the Vatican is hoping for, sort of the messaging. And really, that's at the heart of Christian theology. You know, God loves the entire world.
So, the pope -- and this is key also, because after all, he's an American. So, the pope means to needs to show to all of the diverse Lebanese communities. But also, I think there's messaging to the larger region. Syria is a neighbor. Israel. Palestine is a neighbor that the Vatican is an institution which cares for all of the powers, for all of the people in the Middle East.
SANDOVAL: What do you think that he could shift his attention next as he works to get out there amongst the people. As you mentioned, it's just absolutely remarkable to see an American pope there as the head of the Catholic Church.
Where do you think that he could potentially set his sights for his next official visit?
REYNOLDS: I think it's interesting to contemplate both sort of the church, or theological side. There were hints in his meeting in Turkey with Bartholomew, the ecumenical patriarch, that he really wants to advance relations with the Orthodox Church and move towards unity.
But the Vatican, inevitably, people are going to be more interested sort of in the global media about what sort of role can the Vatican play in reconciliation.
And, you know, there are key questions with those two principal neighbors that we just mentioned. So, Israel, Palestine, the devastating experience of the Gaza war. And then also the instability that continues in Syria, which also has a very significant Christian population.
And I think this pope is really following in the footsteps of Pope Francis, who was very committed to working with partners in the Middle East and especially places where there can be real reconciliation between Muslims and Christians.
SANDOVAL: Notre Dame Professor Gabriel Said Reynolds, I can't thank you enough for taking the time, for staying up late for us and helping us better understand what's happening right now. Thank you.
REYNOLDS: My pleasure. Thank you.
SANDOVAL: Still to come here on CNN NEWSROOM, a different side of North Korea. CNN speaks with a filmmaker and tour guide, offering an inside look at the way parts of the country have changed in recent years.
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[00:48:11]
SANDOVAL: Last year, a human rights leader described North Korea life in North Korea as, quote, "devoid of hope under the rule of Kim Jong- un." Our Will Ripley spoke with a filmmaker who had some surprising revelations about his recent trip to Pyongyang.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (through translator): Driving through Pyongyang, North Korea, American filmmaker and tour guide Justin Martell was absolutely stunned.
JUSTIN MARTELL, FILMMAKER/TOUR GUIDE: Honestly, Pyongyang feels very much like a modern city. We kept joking with our Korean guides that it was now Pyonghattan.
RIPLEY (voice-over): Entire neighborhoods have sprung up since his last trip in 2017. Fancy restaurants, futuristic skyscrapers.
MARTELL: And they were completely modern restaurants. I was there, I -- we ate their Western menu, Asian menu, Korean menu, high-end liquor. Also, car dealerships, as well.
RIPLEY: That's new. And you mentioned there's even traffic in Pyongyang. I don't ever remember being in a traffic jam in Pyongyang.
MARTELL: So, if you're staying at the international hotel at one end of the city, and you want to go out in Hassan district, it's going to take you about 40 minutes to get there by taxi, just because of how big the city has now become, how sprawling it is.
RIPLEY (voice-over): The North Korean elite appear to be enjoying a higher living standard these days, with more access to modern technology and amenities.
MARTELL: They have apps on their phones where they can order taxis, order food, use social media.
RIPLEY (voice-over): And not just in the capital. On North Korea's East Coast, Kim built a brand-new beach resort, luxury hotels, even a water park. A project President Trump talked about when he met Kim.
TRUMP: They have great beaches. You see that whenever they're exploding their cannons into the ocean, right? I said, boy, look at that view. Wouldn't that make a great condo behind? And I explained, I said, you know, instead of doing that, you could have the best hotels in the world right there. [00:50:05]
RIPLEY (voice-over): For North Korea's privileged, at least, sanctions seem to be doing little to dent their lifestyle. One name barely mentioned in Pyongyang these days: Donald Trump.
TRUMP: I know Kim Jong-un very well. We get along very well.
RIPLEY (voice-over): North Korean state media ignored his Asia trip, never reporting Trump's public calls for a repeat of his 2019 meeting with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un.
Justin says his government minders pretty much shrugged off the idea.
MARTELL: If it happens, great. If not, doesn't also change really much anything at all.
RIPLEY: So, you think it didn't really matter to them either way, whether Kim and Trump met?
MARTELL: They don't necessarily see themselves as needing the United States.
RIPLEY (voice-over): Just days after Justin left North Korea, Trump called for the U.S. to restart nuclear weapons testing, without elaborating. A response to Russia and China's nuclear programs.
That last military parade in Beijing, Kim stood side by side with China's Xi Jinping and Russia's Vladimir Putin projecting unity against the U.S. and the West.
But Justin says Trump has not been erased from Pyongyang's official memory.
RIPLEY: So, there was a large picture of Kim and President Trump in a North Korean museum?
MARTELL: Yes, there was a photo of him and President Putin. There was a photo of him and Lavrov, photo of him and Xi Jinping. Dennis Rodman was still there, and President Trump was still displayed there very prominently.
RIPLEY: If the door was fully closed for dialog, Trump's photo probably would have been taken down. North Korea has not publicly confirmed any contact with the U.S.
They have, though, called the latest U.S. sanctions hostile.
Trump says, though, he still wants to meet with Kim, perhaps when he's back in Asia. That's expected early next year.
Will Ripley, CNN, Taipei.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANDOVAL: Just a fascinating and rare look inside North Korea. Speaking of rare, an elegant piece connected to the last Russian royal family goes up for sale this week. Coming up, why this Winter Egg is expected to break a record at auction.
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[00:53:46]
SANDOVAL: A historic Easter gift for Russian royalty will be hitting the auction block this week, and its sale, it could set a record.
Christie's in London. They're going to auction off a Faberge imperial egg on Tuesday. As CNN's Fiona Sinclair Scott reports, the 1913 Winter Egg is considered one of Faberge's finest creations for the Romanov family.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FIONA SINCLAIR SCOTT, CNN STYLE SENIOR GLOBAL EDITOR: Auction houses love nothing more than a record-breaking sale.
SCOTT (voice-over): And there's a huge amount of hype in this industry.
SCOTT: But every so often, you do come across an object that feels genuinely special. I'm at Christie's in London, where we're about to see a Faberge egg that could sell for upwards of $26 million.
We're going to meet an expert who's going to explain why. Let's go find that egg.
Hi.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. Welcome to Christie's.
SCOTT: There it is. OK, tell me what we're looking at here.
MARGO OGANESIAN, CHRISTIE'S HEAD OF DEPARTMENT, FABERGE: So, we're looking at a very rare imperial Easter egg created by Faberge for the Romanov family. So, the tradition was every year on Easter day, a czar of Russia would give one to his mother and his wife.
And the winter was given to mother of Nicholas II in 1913.
SCOTT: And when's the last time that this one was sold?
OGANESIAN: The Winter Egg was sold at Christie's in 2002.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eight million, seven hundred thousand.
[00:55:04]
OGANESIAN: And before that in 1994, each time setting a world record for a work by Faberge.
SCOTT: And each of the 50 eggs that were created, they're all completely bespoke, handcrafted designs. OGANESIAN: Exactly. None of them repeat. They have different themes
behind them, and the Winter Egg, I think, is one of the best that Faberge created.
SCOTT: Why is it so special?
OGANESIAN: The Winter Egg was actually designed by a woman, Alma Pihl, and she only designed two eggs: the Mosaic Egg in the royal collection and the Winter Egg. So, it really stands out among other eggs.
SCOTT: And one of the hallmarks about the Faberge egg is there's often a sort of reveal.
OGANESIAN: Yes. So, the Winter Egg has a surprise inside. It opens like this, and you can place this basket. It hangs on a hook inside.
SCOTT: Wow.
OGANESIAN: And she wouldn't know what's inside there. So, it's almost like a Kinder Surprise.
SCOTT: That's incredible.
OGANESIAN: And you can see the engraving on the inside, which is fantastic. And that's what creates that frosted pattern.
The materials Faberge used are not necessarily the most precious ones, but we have the original invoice, and it says the number of diamonds, which is 4,500. So, you can imagine how delicate this work was.
SCOTT: Who is the customer for something like this?
OGANESIAN: So, first of all, it's important to say that Faberge is appreciated all over the world. And it's been like that throughout the history of Faberge.
But with items like this, the Winter Egg, I think it's also appreciated as a masterpiece of its own.
SCOTT: The price estimation is upwards of $26 million. You know, for the naysayers, how do you explain what people are buying here?
OGANESIAN: It's a true masterpiece.
SCOTT: It's a bargain, you're saying?
OGANESIAN: It's a bargain. It is.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANDOVAL: And if that didn't impress you, maybe this will. A painting considered lost for hundreds of years. It just sold at auction.
The artwork "Christ on Cross" went for sale in Versailles on Sunday and sold for $2.67 million. Seventeenth century Flemish painter Peter Paul Rubens created this artwork, which depicts Jesus's crucifixion. The painting vanished from public view back in 1613 but was recently
discovered in a sale at a private mansion in Paris.
Thank you so much for watching the last hour of news. I'm Polo Sandoval in New York. I'll be right back with you in a few moments with much, much more news right here on CNN NEWSROOM.
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