Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Two U.S. Soldiers, Civilian Interpreter Killed On Patrol In Syria; Interview With Former U.S. Deputy Secretary Of State Wendy Sherman; "Active Shooter Situation" At Brown University; House GOP Unveils Narrow Healthcare Package; Interview With Republican Congresswoman Nicole Malliotakis; "Active Shooter Situation" At Brown University; Providence Police: Multiple Shot In Area Of Brown University. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired December 13, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:00:40]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Hi, everyone. I'm Jessica Dean here in New York. And we welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world.

Tonight, we do begin with breaking news as an ISIS gunman has killed two U.S. soldiers and a civilian interpreter. That happened earlier today in Syria.

President Donald Trump vowing, quote, "very serious retaliation" after that attack in which three others were wounded. This is according to the Pentagon.

The president noting the U.S. was working alongside Syrian forces when this happened.

Let's go to CNN correspondent Julia Benbrook, who is joining us from the White House.

Julia, what more are we learning about this incident? Again, two U.S. soldiers and a civilian interpreter dead today in Syria.

JULIA BENBROOK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: President Donald Trump did speak with reporters here at the White House directly about this. He told us that he was mourning the lives lost. That includes two U.S. Army soldiers as well as one civilian interpreter. He also said that he is thinking of those wounded and that they are doing well.

Now, the president, he called this attack an ambush. He said that this was an ISIS attack on both the United States and on Syria. He also promised retaliation. Take a listen

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We will retaliate. This was an ISIS attack on us and Syria. And again, we mourn the loss and we pray for them and their parents

and their loved ones. Very, very sad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BENBROOK: Now, just moments after those remarks, he took to social media to reiterate that point. He said that there would be, quote, "very serious retaliation".

He also said that this attack took part in a dangerous part of Syria that is not fully controlled by them. He said that Syria's president was both angered and disturbed by this attack.

Now, I do want to pull up a statement from Sean Parnell. He's the chief spokesperson for the Pentagon, add some extra context here.

He said, quote, "The attack occurred as the soldiers were conducting a key leader engagement. Their mission was in support of ongoing counter-ISIS counterterrorism operations in the region.

The soldiers' names, as well as identifying information about their units, are being withheld until 24 hours after the next of kin notification.

This attack is currently under active investigation."

BENBROOK: Now, in another post, Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth said that the attacker was killed by partner forces.

He went on to say this. "Let it be known, if you target Americans anywhere in the world, you will spend the rest of your brief, anxious life knowing the United States will hunt you, find you, and ruthlessly kill you."

So you hear the president of the United States, as well as the Secretary of Defense, promising some sort of action in response to this.

DEAN: And Julia, do we know what type of mission this team was carrying out when this took place?

BENBROOK: Well, according to Syria's official national news agency, the U.S. soldiers came under fire during a joint patrol with Syrian forces and then U.S. helicopters intervened to help the wounded.

This comes just a month after Syria joined a U.S.-led coalition that was formed in 2014. That coalition has conducted military operations against ISIS in Syria and in Iraq now with participation from multiple countries.

ISIS has not officially claimed responsibility for what happened today, Jessica.

DEAN: All right. Julia Benbrook at the White House with the latest reporting for us. Thank you for that.

And we are joined now by former U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman.

Ambassador Sherman, thank you so much for being here tonight. We really appreciate it.

I do want to get your thoughts on this news out of Syria today. If you can just help our viewers understand the role of U.S. forces there and the dynamics of working with Syrian forces.

WENDY SHERMAN, FORMER U.S. DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE: Certainly, Jessica.

We had about 2,000 soldiers in Syria. that's gone down to 1,000 since Al-Assad has been kicked out of the country.

[17:04:48]

SHERMAN: And we do have a small base, in Al-Tanf in the eastern -- south eastern part of Syria.

We want -- we are working jointly with the president of Syria and his forces. But as the reporter pointed out this took place in an area that is not controlled by the president as he works to gain control of Syria. And my guess is we will do a joint effort with the Syrians to retaliate.

I think it's important for viewers to understand that lots of things come at a president that they don't expect and have to deal with. This is one of them.

DEAN: Yes. And let's stay with that for a minute, because you mentioned that what you would expect in terms of this retaliation, the president saying that they should expect a very strong retaliation.

So help people understand a little bit more about what that might be.

SHERMAN: Well, this was ostensibly a lone gunman with a machine gun, who was killed by other forces after this attack.

I think that probably the president is asking the Pentagon and the intelligence community to identify some targets where we know there are ISIS camps or leaders of ISIS that are collected and looking to strike one of those targets.

This will take a little bit of time, but the president says he wants to act quickly. And that is what I would expect to happen.

Now, deepest condolences to the families of the two servicemen and the U.S. interpreter. And obviously thinking of those that are wounded that were evacuated by U.S. helicopters.

But again, Jessica, the president is trying to deal with Ukraine, Venezuela, lots of international issues, while at the same time, the American people are concerned about their health care and their grocery prices.

DEAN: Yes. And that is -- that is being the president, as you mentioned in a nutshell. It is all of this coming at you at the same time.

Just lastly, on this topic, what do we know about ISIS and their presence there in Syria?

SHERMAN: Well, ISIS still has pockets in Syria. This is a big challenge for the new president and for his forces. He does not have full control of the country, but is trying to gain that control. And we are trying to work with the new Syrian government to counter ISIS.

ISIS Is certainly not the caliphate it once was, but it's still an issue that has to be dealt with.

SHERMAN: I do want to touch on Ukraine as well. U.S. special envoy Steve Witkoff is expected to meet with President Zelenskyy and the leaders of the U.K., France and Germany this weekend.

What is your sense of these negotiations and where we stand in terms of being any closer to getting any sort of deal here?

SHERMAN: Well, Jessica, at the end of the day, I'm not sure that Vladimir Putin actually wants peace. I'm glad that these meetings are happening. That the Europeans have really come forward to try to support President Zelenskyy and Ukraine.

I thought it was very important today that Chancellor Merz of Germany, who is hosting the meetings in Berlin gave a speech where he said that past America, in other words, America working with Europe, those days are over. And that Europe has to stand up for itself.

And he reminded people that in 1938 when in fact in the German- speaking part of Czechoslovakia, leaders in Europe agreed to allow the Sudetenland, that part, that border region of, of Czechoslovakia, to be given to Hitler, thinking that that would appease Hitler and everything would be over.

But in fact, we all know that that was just the beginning for Hitler of his attack all over Europe and to try to gain control of the world.

And so what Merz is saying, what the chancellor is saying is territory, territory, territory. We cannot appease Russia. We have to stand tall and courageous against Russia.

And I just wish that President Trump would put more pressure on Russia, because we'll have all these negotiations. There may get to be an agreement with Zelenskyy in Ukraine, and then Russia will say, you haven't given me enough yet.

DEAN: Right. And that's -- that was what I wanted to ask you about. Because you know, what it's like to try to work with Russia, to deal with Russia. Does a deal happen that's not on their terms? To your point, just now.

SHERMAN: My own sense, having met with the Russians right before their illegal and horrifying invasion of a sovereign country, Ukraine, is that Putin believes Ukraine belongs to him.

[17:09:52]

SHERMAN: Now, it looks like he would be willing to take all of the Donbas, even territory that he has not gained on the battlefield. That's outrageous, of course.

My understanding is President Trump and his negotiators have suggested creating an economic zone, but allowing Russia to keep its troops there.

So, of course, that is no guarantee for Ukraine. And part of what has to be dealt with here is not just territory, but a sovereign, a strong security guarantee for Ukraine that there will be support from the United States, support from Europe -- ironclad -- that if Russia tries again to attack, that we will come to their defense.

And Zelenskyy is asking that that go before the United States Senate, that it be a ratified document, to try to give it more sustainability and durability.

So there are an awful lot of details that have to get resolved here. And even if they get resolved with Zelenskyy, I'm not sure that Vladimir Putin, in fact, I don't think we've put enough pressure on Vladimir Putin in any way, shape or form to get him to say yes.

DEAN: To get him there.

All right. Ambassador Wendy Sherman, thank you for your time. We really do appreciate it.

SHERMAN: Thank you

DEAN: We do have some breaking news to bring you tonight.

This is Brown University there in Providence, Rhode Island, where Brown University reports a suspect is in custody after what it is calling an active shooter situation on its campus.

Police from the school and from Providence are on the scene. And you can see there is quite a large response. The school is warning people to shelter in place for now.

We are working to get more information from here, including any possible injuries and more details. We will certainly bring that to you as we get it. We are keeping our eye on that.

Still ahead here, a big deadline looming over Congress as millions of Americans brace for skyrocketing health care costs. The latest plan House Republicans are now pitching to the American people and why Democrats are calling it a disaster.

Plus, another deadline coming up next week, this time for the Justice Department on releasing the Jeffrey Epstein files. The legal ramifications Attorney General Pam Bondi could face if she fails to make those records public by the deadline.

[17:12:10] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: We do have breaking news tonight. Brown University saying there is an active shooter situation there on their campus. Police from the school and from Providence, Rhode Island are on the scene. You can see it is quite a large response with the rescue task force out. We can see them there gathering together. The school is warning people to shelter in place for now.

Former Boston police commissioner Ed Davis is joining us on the phone now. Thanks for being here with us.

I know the details are quite scant at this point, but we do know this is on a campus. What makes that different than being just in a public place?

ED DAVIS, FORMER BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER (via telephone): Good evening. It's -- it really does complicate things because of the density of the -- of the people who are present.

There are dormitories, there are classrooms. People are moving about on the campus all the time. And so this makes it a unique situation. And besides that, it's an assault on a -- on a higher education facility that is really horrible for the city and for Brown University.

There's a great police department there. The Rhode Island state police are very good at what they do. And the good news that I'm hearing is that the suspect is in custody already.

So we'll see how many people have been injured at this point in time.

DEAN: Yes. And we're working to confirm all of those details at this moment. Again, as we try to get more information.

But what would they be doing right now, Commissioner? We would -- we see -- I don't know if you can see what we're looking at -- but we see what appears to be a police task force. Obviously Fire, EMS, they're all kind of gathered together. What would they be doing right now as they work through all of this?

DAVIS: Right. I'm watching the pictures coming in. And this is indicative of a scene that has been made safe.

It looks like the initial response did exactly what they were supposed to do, which is go to the sound of gunfire, somehow stop the individual, and take that person into custody and then fall back to do two things.

One, of course, is to treat casualties, evacuate them from the scene, get them to medical centers in the area.

And then -- then the other job is to lock the facility down and make sure that no one else is conspiring with the shooter. Sometimes that's immediately obvious to the officers, other times it requires an investigation. All of those steps are being taken right now. DEAN: Yes. Well, that is certainly a good indicator, what you're

saying, in the sense that what you're looking at says to you this is a scene -- that has been hopefully resolved. Again, we will wait to confirm all those details.

But former Commissioner Ed Davis with us. Thank you so much. We appreciate it.

DAVIS: Thank you.

Meantime, time is running out for Congress to pass legislation that would lower health care costs as premiums are set to skyrocket for millions of Americans at the end of this month.

[17:19:49]

DEAN: And now, just mere days before leaving for the holidays, House Republicans have unveiled a narrow health care package that does not extend Obamacare subsidies that are set to expire, that of course, a big part of the government shutdown.

Camila DeChalus joining us now. So tell us about this new plan and what House Republicans are trying to do.

CAMILA DECHALUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jessica, there is a lot of pressure right now for lawmakers to try to find a solution around these health care subsidies.

Now, here's what we know so far about the House Republican health care proposal.

We know, like you mentioned, it does not extend these Affordable Care Act subsidies. The proposal actually really expands the availability of association health plans, which basically just allows employers to band together to purchase coverage and lower the cost of benefits.

Now it also includes provisions that would try to lower drug costs and as well as trying to lower the premiums for certain Affordable Care Act enrollees.

But Jessica, this plan does fall a little short of what President Trump has been calling for these last few weeks, and that is a push for really expanding the health savings accounts that his argument is saying that they would rather try to send money directly to patients instead of these big health care insurances.

Now, last thing that's really important to note is that this vote is expected to take place next week, and that's a really pivotal moment because that's really the only time that lawmakers can be able to do something about these expiring subsidies.

DEAN: All right. Camila has the very latest for us. Thank you for setting the stage. We really appreciate it.

We are joined now by Republican Congresswoman Nicole Malliotakis of New York. She serves on the Ways and Means Committee. She's also the assistant whip for the House Republican conference.

Congresswoman, thanks for being here on this Saturday. We do appreciate it.

Camila just lined out or kind of walked us through this timeline that you all are up against. There's about one week left in session.

How fast do you think leadership is planning to move forward with this proposal? And is it doable?

REP. NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS (R-NY): I think that we'll be voting Wednesday or Thursday on the package that she outlined. It contains three provisions, which I support. I think that overall they're very good and it will lower premiums by 12 percent.

But I do agree that it does fall short. I would like to see and what we're pushing for right now is a vote on the bipartisan package we introduced with Brian Fitzpatrick. It was four Republicans, four Democrats, including myself, that allows for a two-year extension of the ACA subsidies, but with significant reforms to crack down on the fraud and hold insurance companies, their brokers, as well as PBMs that negotiate the prescription drug costs accountable.

And I think that if we can pass this bipartisan package, it will go a long way in helping the American people afford health care and prescription drugs.

And so we've been advocating and pushing the speaker to allow us to have a vote. And we do anticipate at this time that we will get a vote as an amendment to this package that was unveiled yesterday.

And I urge my colleagues from both sides of the aisle to support it, because this is -- it's very rare you see, bipartisanship, and here you have an opportunity to really do something significant for the American people to drive down health care costs as well as their pharmaceutical drug costs, and hold the bad actors, most importantly, the insurance companies and the PBMs accountable.

DEAN: Ok, so if I'm understanding you correctly, it sounds like you've been told that whenever this vote happens Wednesday, Thursday, that you all will get an amendment vote for your piece of this legislation, this bipartisan piece of legislation.

So between now and then, Congresswoman, what do these conversations look like with your colleagues, both your Republican colleagues, but also your Democratic colleagues, as you try to build support for this?

MALLIOTAKIS: Yes. Look, the affordable care act has always been an issue where you saw premiums increase 95 percent. And also the insurance profits have increased roughly 230 percent since President Obama signed it into law. So there needs to be reforms.

We do not support a clean extension, as many of the Democrats have been saying we should. We know the program is riddled with fraud. We see multiple people being registered under social -- the same social security number. 11 million people don't even know that they have it or they haven't used it at all. And so there's a lot of issues with it. And so what we're simply saying is we don't support that clean extension the Democrats are pushing for. We don't support a total expiration that the Republicans are pushing for. We want to see something in the middle.

And we believe that our centrist proposal is the real balance here to address it. We can continue the subsidies for just two years while we work on more important health care reforms. But we also put in those accountability measures. So that way we don't see it being so abused and taxpayer money being wasted.

This affects about 7 percent of the country, by the way. And people should know that members of Congress are also on the affordable care act exchange. We do not have free health care like so many American people think.

[17:24:46]

MALLIOTAKIS: So we have skin in the game as well. And I think that it's in our best interest for the whole country to pass this package, along with what my House Republican colleagues have pushed for, that will -- that will lower premiums 12 percent what the Republican plan is.

And coupled with ours, we will prevent these premiums on the ACA exchange from doubling.

DEAN: Yes. And it sounds like that's probably what you're telling your colleagues right now.

MALLIOTAKIS: Well, that's what I'm telling my colleagues. And I think we got to look -- look, this is truly a bipartisan measure that everyone can embrace. There's something for everyone in here.

You're not going to get everything that you want, whether it's a complete expiration or a complete extension with no reforms.

But what we can do here is really solve a problem, and that should be the goal. And this is why this came out of the problem-solvers caucus. There are, again, eight of us -- four Republicans, four Democrats that have put forward this plan. And I'm very proud to have worked with Brian Fitzpatrick and my colleagues on this, because it is -- we've listened to everyone, basically, what everyone has been saying here. And this does address the issue.

And the other important piece about prescription drugs, the pharmaceutical benefit managers that negotiate, right, between the insurance companies and they reimburse the pharmacies. They're the ones who are driving up health care costs in this country, and they really are hurting our mom-and-pop pharmacies by dictating what they're getting reimbursed when they themselves are competitive big chain pharmacies.

It is a complete conflict of interest. And so what our reforms do will require more transparency, will end spread pricing, will require that they disclose the reimbursements and the rebates and that those get passed on directly to the consumers.

That is, I believe, the number one issue that is plaguing our country in terms of high prescription costs. And this is a real opportunity for us to tackle it.

And I will say that the Republican proposal falls short. It has some reporting requirements, but certainly doesn't go as far as we need to go.

And as much as the conference, by the way, supports PBM reform, that is a big bipartisan issue. It is a no brainer. And we should put those pieces of legislation on the floor.

DEAN: What's at stake if this doesn't happen? If these premiums go up and nothing is done, do you -- I mean, there's the human piece of it, there's also the political piece of it. And are you concerned that it affects, you know, look, you're going to have to run for reelection next year and you're going to have to answer to your constituents on this.

MALLIOTAKIS: There's about 7 percent of Americans that are affected, but it's about 24 million Americans in my district. It's 80,000 individuals. So it is -- it is significant all across the country.

Again, I think there's two pieces to this. We're highlighting what a failure the Affordable Care Act was and that you've seen profits for insurance companies skyrocket while they deny claims for individuals. And the premiums have skyrocketed, nearly doubling since 2014. And so the thing is, is what can we do today to prevent those premiums from increasing further and make sure that our constituents have access to the exchange but also protect taxpayer money.

So our solution is the answer, because we've brought together all these pieces. We've listened to everyone who had something to say about this. And I think we put together a really good moderate plan.

I really hope that we do get that vote. And if we do get that vote, people need to hold their members accountable because they'll have to explain to their constituents why they didn't support a bipartisan proposal that actually got to the root of the issue.

And address the issue of these health care premiums, as well as prescription drug pricing, while holding those bad actors accountable. Again, those insurance companies, their brokers, as well as the PBMs who have been predatory.

DEAN: All right. We will see what the next week holds. Congresswoman Nicole Malliotakis, thanks for your time. We do appreciate it.

MALLIOTAKIS: Thank you.

DEAN: Still ahead here on CNN NEWSROOM tonight, we're going to have more on our breaking news as there is an active shooter situation at Brown University in Rhode Island. Students being told to shelter in place there as a precaution. A search currently underway for a suspect.

We will have more details when we come back.

[17:28:57]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:33:24]

DEAN: We are following some breaking news tonight. This is coming to us out of Rhode Island, where a search is underway for a suspect after a shooting at Brown University in Providence. As you can see, there is a very large law enforcement response that is happening there right now. Students are being told to shelter in place.

Let's bring in Julia Vargas Jones, who is following the latest. And Julia, we don't know a ton right now. What do we know?

JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN NEWSOURCE CORRESPONDENT: We know very little. That's right.

But just three minutes ago, Jessica, we got a new alert from Brown University's emergency management. They are saying reports of shots fired near Governor Street, continue to shelter in place. Stay clear. Law enforcement responding Governor Street. That's just about two blocks east where an initial altercation was reported. That's near Brown's building of engineering. That's Barus and Holley. That's what they described in a previous alert.

Now, a little bit of confusion here, Jessica, as initially, Brown had said that there was a suspect in custody. Now, they are saying there is no suspect in custody, asking students to remain in a safe place, saying, lock doors, silence phones and stay hidden until further notice.

Run if you are in the affected location. Evacuate safely if you can. Hide if evacuation is not possible and fight as a last resort. Brown University has this week now going into a finals week according to their web site that started on Friday. That's supposed to go until the 20th, next Saturday.

[17:35:00]

About 10,000 students currently attending there. We are not sure how many would be on campus on a weekend of finals week. That could be a good thing. That could mean fewer people on campus. But at this point, we just don't know.

Still, this situation developing quite rapidly there. Jessica.

DEAN: Indeed. All right. Julia, stand by. We will check back in with you. Thank you for that update and with us now, former Philadelphia and Washington, D.C. Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey. Thank you for being here with us on just more bad news when it comes to apparent school shootings. I want to start first with what Julia was just saying, which is initially, these reports that a suspect was in custody. Now, perhaps, that is not the case. Again, just for everyone watching, we are still working to figure out exactly what the situation is. But what does that tell you?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, oftentimes there is a rush to try to get as much information out as possible, and that early information, preliminary information, is very often not accurate.

If you recall the Charlie Kirk assassination, initially, there was a report that the shooter was in custody. It turned out not to be the shooter. So, that is not unusual. Sometimes people move a little too fast before they actually have the facts before they make any kind of announcement.

DEAN: Yes, we do know, as Julia was saying that students are in the middle of finals there. Still, again, it is a weekend, so, who knows exactly how many people are there. But look student, the bottom line is, the school is still in session. What does it mean for this to happen on a campus? What does that mean for law enforcement, as they are now trying to work through this scene?

RAMSEY: Well, one of the things they are doing. First of all, they are going to have a huge police presence there. You saw it earlier in some of the shots. I'm sure that, by now, they have organized themselves to begin a systematic search around the campus, going through every single building, every single room in the building, to see whether or not, one, you have victims, and two, whether or not you have a shooter, the person who is responsible.

I found that interesting, that second message that Julia was referring to that there were still shots fired somewhere else.

Well, that would not be a good indication if that's the case. But you do have sufficient resources to respond very, very quickly to something like this, and hopefully they can resolve this quickly.

DEAN: And I just want to give people an update. We are getting some information via X from Provident police. They are saying that multiple people have been shot in the area of Brown University. That is obviously quite general, so, we don't know the exact details, how many it was actually on campus or near the campus, but they are saying multiple people shot in the area of Brown University.

So, what are they doing now?

RAMSEY: Well, again, they are setting up a perimeter. They probably already have done that, going through video, these campuses, like every place else, has a lot of video cameras to see what they can capture on tape, exactly what took place, a systematic search of all the buildings to again, find either victims or suspects during that particular point in time.

So, that's what they are doing right now. We don't know the condition of the people that were shot. Hopefully, they are non-life-threatening injuries, but it's never a good sign whenever you have multiple people shot in a situation like this. They probably would have recovered some shell casings by now, so they would know the kind of weapon that the individual or individuals had at the time of the shooting.

So, there is a lot of stuff that's going on right now. Again, but you have an active crime scene, and you know the first thing you have to do is locate any victims and get them medical attention, and at the same time, you are desperately looking to try to find the shooter.

DEAN: Certainly.

And again, this language they are using in the area of Brown University, not being specific about it being on campus per se, or exactly where it is, I would think that goes to exactly what you are saying, which is, they are trying to get out of information, but they can't get ahead of everything.

RAMSEY: Yes, and usually, I mean, if it's on campus, they would say on campus. But near a building or near the campus is often where these things can take place. It might have nothing to do with the university itself, even though students could be involved, because many students are obviously around a university, at restaurants, and various other types of locations around the building. So, we don't have a lot of information out. And so, everything is speculation until they have a press conference, and we get concrete information as to what took place. And until then, it is just guessing.

DEAN: Yes, we just have to wait until then. But it is great to have your perspective, to give us just a little bit of framing around this.

[17:40:01]

Thank you so much, former Chief Charles Ramsey.

RAMSEY: Thank you.

DEAN: Really appreciate it. We are going to take a quick break. We will have more breaking news when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: All right. Welcome back to our breaking news coverage. This is out of Providence, Rhode Island, where we are being told by Providence police, multiple people have been shot in the area near Brown University.

[17:45:00]

The school is telling students there who are in the middle of their finals week to shelter in place, to be on lockdown. They originally had said that there was a.

The school is telling students there who are in the middle of their finals week to shelter in place, to be on lockdown. They originally had said that there was a suspect in custody. They have now backed off of that. The bottom line is, we still don't know a lot about what's going on, except that multiple people have been shot in that area, obviously, a very scary time for everybody in that area, for those students and a massive police response there in Providence, Rhode Island.

Let's bring in Julia Vargas Jones, who can go through what we do know right now. Julia, what is that?

JONES: Well, aside from that back and forth of whether or not a suspect is in place, the university is now telling those students to shelter in place. They are saying there were reports of shots fired near Governor Street. Again, that's just a couple of blocks east of where the initial report came in. That was near the engineering building of Brown University that is close to basically Barus and Holley is how the university explained to the students that it's now telling to shelter in place and sustained.

They are basically saying, at this time, Jessica, to hide, lock doors, stay in place and run if they are in the affected area, and fight as a last resort. Those images there from our affiliate, WJRR moments ago, showing those students who are basically on a lockdown right now during this final's weeks.

Now, again, we've said this is a Saturday. It's finals week. There are about 10,000 students overall at Brown University. Unclear how many of these people would be on campus today, and whether or not the shooting has anything to do with the final's week or with the university itself. We know that it's in this area surrounding Brown University.

Now, that last alert from the university coming almost an hour later. That's only about two blocks away from the initial location that was on campus. So, of course, we are keeping our eyes peeled here for more information from police. The only thing we know now is that multiple people shot in that area.

DEAN: Right.

And we certainly hope those are not life-threatening injuries. Again, we are waiting to get more details. All right, Julia, stay with us. We'll obviously come back to you as we get more information. We still have former commissioner and chief, Police Chief Charles Ramsey with us.

Charles, in listening to what Julia was just talking about, we also have Ed Davis with us, who was just joining us by phone.

Charles, in what Julia was just talking about, it at least sounds like this is a pretty tight location. That it has not expanded beyond, you know, gotten bigger. Is that a good sign in a -- in a weird way, that at least this continues to be in a concentrated area?

RAMSEY: Well, I mean, it's really too early to say what's a good sign and so forth. Right now, what they are focusing on is locking down that area and methodically going through every single building. Again, they are looking for victims. They are looking for suspects. Teams are going through video footage to see if they can get an I.D. on who it is that's responsible for the shooting.

But that's what's going on right now, and certainly, you want to be able to interview witnesses and all that. But it's hard to tell, from what I'm looking at now, exactly where they are in this investigation, you know, but it does begin to sound like it is a possibility. This didn't happen exactly on the campus, but near the campus.

But again, it's just speculation. It's just too hard to tell right now. It's too early.

DEAN: I know, and I do, you know I sound like a broken record, but I think it's worth underlining right now, we just don't know a lot of information.

Again, if you're just joining us, the information we do know is that this -- there have been multiple people shot in the area of Brown University. Originally, authorities said they had somebody in custody. Now, we don't know if that is the case or not.

Students there at Brown University have been told to shelter in place. The former commissioner of the Boston Police Department, Ed Davis, is also with us. What are you seeing as we are looking at these pictures?

Chief Ramsey was just walking us through kind of what they are doing right now. But as you are looking at these pictures, what is it saying to you?

ED DAVIS, FORMER BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER: Well, it is difficult to speculate, but I will tell you that the scene we have now in front of us is very different from the one that we saw 15 or 20 minutes ago. It looked like people were standing down. They were gathered around in back of that ambulance.

Now, they are not there, which is an indication to me that they have been redeployed out into the area of concern as these reports surface that the initial reports of a suspect in custody have changed. So, Brown University, I know well, I've been on a campus. It's spread out across the city of Providence, highly populated area, lot going on.

[17:50:04]

We don't know if this was unique to the university or as Chuck said, something that happened in the neighborhood.

But clearly, there is been a huge deployment of officers there. People are trying to get their arms around exactly what's going on.

So, we're in a bit of a wait and see situation. But hopefully the victims have been evacuated from the scene and receiving the medical treatment that they need to try to cut down on any potential fatalities.

DEAN: Yes, we certainly hope that.

OK, please stay with us. We are going to take a break. We will have more on this breaking news when we come back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is "CNN BREAKING NEWS".

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Hi. There. We are following this breaking news tonight, out of Providence, Rhode Island, where authorities say the police there are saying there has been a shooting near Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island.

Now, that school and that area now the scene, as you are looking at of a huge law enforcement response. Students at Brown are being told to shelter in place. The White House says the president has been briefed on this. A reporter from the Sean affiliate, WJAR, just filed a report from the scene a few moments ago. This is what they had to say.

MIKE CERULLO, MULTIMEDIA JOURNALIST, NBC 10 NEWS: Yes, Doug, well, we're closer to the sciences library on -- at Brown at the moment. I want to show you just another picture of just how big this response is. You can see first responders filling this intersection. This is a main intersection in Providence. We are at Waterman and Thayer. This is a drag that is normally filled with students, with residents out on and about on a Saturday night.

But right now, it's filled with first responders in the middle of the intersection. You can see those armored police officers right over there. This is, again, by the science library in Brown. The intersection of Waterman and Thayer. And you'll just got an idea of how large this response is and how, you know, scary this could be for some of the people who live in this area.

We have spoken to a lot of residents. We can see people looking down from the top window now of the science library onto this scene, and just people who are in these restaurants enjoying a night out. They are now blocked in by all these first responders. They can't get out, even if they want to, as we get these reports of multiple victims and just more information that's coming into our newsroom at the moment.

So, you know, we are going to stay out here. We are going to try and get you more information. But at the moment, this is a live look at the scene, and it's just a Saturday night in Providence turns to this at the moment. So, we'll keep you updated. But for now, Mike Cerullo, NBC 10 News,

DEAN: All right. Mike, thank you. And with us now. Former Philadelphia Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey.

You've been watching this with us as it unfolds, and I think we keep saying it, but it's worth saying, we don't know a lot of things right now. The only thing we do know from police is that multiple people have been shot near Brown University, and that students are sheltering in place there on campus, and that there is this very big response and a big scene there in Providence, Rhode Island. Again, people are just joining us, what is going on? When we're looking at pictures like this, what's going on behind the scenes?

RAMSEY: Well, what's going on behind the scenes, now, you have a very large presence of both police and fire, and when you have a large gathering like that, and you have incident command, one of the things is probably taking place. Officers are being given specific instructions on what they ought to be doing.

They -- there are buildings that need to be searched. There is traffic control issues. You have all kinds of things right now going on. And you have sufficient resources there. But now, the trick is to deploy them properly so you can lock down this area.

You can conduct a methodical search of the area to find the person responsible, or persons responsible for the shooting. This is clearly not a hot zone that they are in right now. Probably just a staging area, which is why you see so many vehicles and people just kind of standing around. If this were in a hot or warm zone, it would look a lot different.

DEAN: Yes, and we know that there are various law enforcement agencies who are coming together for this response. What does it look like again, as a former police commissioner there in Philadelphia, you also headed up the police force in D.C.

When you get you know, different types of law enforcement coming together, how do they coordinate a scene like this?

RAMSEY: Well, they tabletop these kinds of situations on a fairly regular basis, but one of the challenges you have when you have something like this take place, you get a lot of response from different jurisdictions coming in, and that's why you have to get control right away and give them specific assignments. Or if you don't need them, send them back.

Now, they are at a point now where I don't know whether or not they still need this many people. They have got a lot of work yet to do. This is early in the investigation. They have got to search every single building. They got to try to gather as many witnesses they can so detectives can interview them. They got to go through videotape.

[18:00:01]

You got a scene to process. I don't know if there is a single scene. If you have multiple scenes, you have multiple people shot. If they are shot in different locations, then, you've got different scenes that you have to guard, that you have to protect, because there is forensic evidence at every single one of those things.