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U.S. Seizes Another Vessel Off Coast Of Venezuela; Trump DOJ Releases Trove Of Heavily Redacted Epstein Files; Turning Point's "AmericaFest" Underway Without Founder Charlie Kirk; Trump Insists U.S. Economy Is Stronger Than Many Voters Feel; Congress Heads Home As Millions Face Obamacare Subsidy Expiration; Young Conservatives Fret About The Future At AmericaFest. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired December 20, 2025 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TY SIMPSON, ALABAMA QUARTERBACK: What did Kobe say? We're not -- we're not done yet?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SNELL: They're not done yet indeed, right?

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: OK.

SNELL: All right. To the one that just ended, the Miami-Texas A&M game ending just minutes ago in the Lone Star state. Keep in mind, Miami made waves as the last (INAUDIBLE) team selected into the field by the playoff committee, edging out a disappointed Notre Dame. We cover that one a couple of weekends ago. Then they opted out in turn of playing in a bowl after the snub.

We had to wait seemingly a long time for the first score. Four minutes, 26 seconds into the second half, in fact.

WHITFIELD: Oh, my gosh.

SNELL: Before we finally had some points on the board there in College Station. 21-yard field goal for the number 10 seeded Hurricanes. That field goal coming after the first scoreless first half in college playoff history in 11 years.

WHITFIELD: Wow.

SNELL: The Hurricanes with the touchdown with less than two minutes to go, but A&M drove all the way down on its last drive to Miami's five- yard line, but quarterback Marcel Read throwing an interception in the end zone. It is a thriller of an ending there.

WHITFIELD: My gosh.

SNELL: Miami win it 10-3 as they caused the upset. They play the number two seed Ohio State University next, as the excitement mounts there. Those fans trying to take it all in on a momentous day.

Now still on the slate, there's plenty more to come on this Saturday. We've got number six seeded Ole Miss, whose head coach Lane Kiffin, a big story recently.

WHITFIELD: Right.

SNELL: He left in a big headline grabbing move to LSU. They're hosting Tulane, who are seeded 11th. That one actually currently in progress as we speak. And then later on tonight number five Oregon hosting number 12 James Madison Tulane and James Madison coming from the, what they call the group of five. The five non-power conferences, Fred, representing two really, really fascinating Cinderella story lines in the bracket. Both entering their respective games as heavy underdogs.

And we should point out that both games are on our sister networks, TNT.

WHITFIELD: Of course.

SNELL: HBO Max and TruTV as well. So much to feast upon.

WHITFIELD: No excused. You can catch it all.

SNELL: Yes, it's all there.

WHITFIELD: That's right. Good feasting. I like that.

All right, Patrick Snell, great to see you. Thanks so much.

SNELL: All right. All right. Thanks.

WHITFIELD: Hello again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

All right. CNN is now learning the U.S. has seized another vessel off the coast of Venezuela as the Trump administration ramps up pressure on Caracas. It's the second known instance of the U.S. interdicting a vessel near Venezuela in the last two weeks. Back on December 10th, the U.S. Military seized a large oil tanker called the Skipper, which had been under sanctions for its ties to Iran.

CNN's Kevin Liptak is joining us now from near where the president is in Florida there. He's spending the holidays there.

Kevin, what more are you learning about this latest ship seizure?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Right. And I'm told that this occurred in international waters off the coast of Venezuela, that the U.S. Coast Guard took the lead with assistance from the American military. Now, this vessel that was seized was a tanker carrying Venezuelan oil under the flag of Panama. And interestingly, it was not currently covered by U.S. sanctions.

That's interesting because just days ago, President Trump announced on Truth Social that he was enacting a, quote, "total and complete blockade of sanctioned tankers carrying Venezuelan energy." And certainly I think this all is a continuation of the administration's pressure campaign on the dictator, Nicolas Maduro. You've seen that carried out in those strikes on the alleged drug boats, 27 strikes so far, 100 people killed.

You see this massive military buildup in the Caribbean Sea, 15,000 American military personnel, more than a dozen warships, all sort of tightening the grip on Maduro. And this effort to go after the oil is really targeting Caracas's main economic lifeline. Really, their ability to keep a grip on power in Venezuela.

And you've heard President Trump repeatedly threaten that the U.S. wants more access to the oil fields there, in his words, to reclaim what Venezuela has taken when it took over state control of the energy industry there in the 1970s. And so I think the real question, of course, is what might happen next. You've heard President Trump threaten air strikes on land in Venezuela. He's been threatening that over the last several weeks so far, stopped short of giving the final order there.

Really, the objective when you talk to American officials is to oust Maduro from power. And you see that continually as the U.S. continues to up the pressure, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Kevin Liptak, thanks so much.

[16:05:02]

All right. New today, frustrations are mounting among lawmakers and victims of Jeffrey Epstein after the Department of Justice failed to release all of its files on the convicted pedophile. The DOJ was required under a bipartisan law to release everything by yesterday. The material that was released was heavily redacted, and in some cases, entire pages were blacked out. The DOJ says the delays and redactions were to protect the identities of Epstein's victims.

Here's how some of them are reacting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LISA PHILLIPS, JEFFREY EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: Victims want answers. We want to know, we want to connect the dots. We want our stories to make sense. We want to know a lot of different things. So, I mean, of course they're just going to say that, that this buys time, but they're protecting themselves, not the victims.

ALICIA ARDEN, JEFFREY EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: I wanted all the files to come out like they said that they were going to. And the redaction is a little bit puzzling to me because my police report was heavily redacted also in 1997. And I thought, is that allowed? Is that legal for them to do that?

JENA-LISA JONES, JEFFREY EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: So I feel like this was kind of another joke to string it along a little bit. I'm pretty disappointed right now. I'm seeing the bare minimum, and even at the bare minimum, I think the American people should be looking at these and being like, why? Why is this going on?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: CNN's Camila DeChalus is joining us now from Washington.

Camila, I mean, can you walk us through some of the things that we did learn from this document release?

CAMILA DECHALUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fred, there was a lot of things that stood out about the latest batch of documents that were released relating to Jeffrey Epstein. Number one, these documents really give a closer look to how extensive Epstein's social network was, especially among high profile figures in politics and in the entertainment industry, where we've seen images looking through these documents of Michael Jackson, of the former president Bill Clinton, Diana Ross, even President Trump.

Now, it's really important to note at this time and be clear that there is no evidence connecting Jackson, Hilton, Clinton, Ross, or even Trump in engaging in any illegal activity connected to Epstein. And this is really even sparked even a response from Bill Clinton's team. Let me read it now. He said, "The White House hasn't been hiding these files for months, only to dump them late on Friday to protect Bill Clinton. This is about shielding themselves from what comes next, or from what they'll try to hide forever so they can release as many grainy 20 plus-year-old photos as they want. But this isn't about Bill Clinton."

And even on the topic of the president, there was kind of a lack of response, well, of Trump being mentioned in these documents, and that did raise some speculation over whether the Justice Department may be holding back any information. And one top DOJ official actually addressed this. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TODD BLANCHE, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: There's no effort to hold anything back because there's the name Donald J. Trump or anybody else's name. Bill Clinton's name, Reid Hoffman's name.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To be clear, you're saying DOJ has not been ordered to redact anything related to president Trump? There's no order to do such.

BLANCHE: No, I mean, I would give the order.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DECHALUS: So, Fred, as you see there, you have the Justice Department really pushing back on this notion that they are trying to withhold any information. And really the whole -- the area and the issue here is about transparency, especially from the White House and from the Justice Department about more taking accountability over Epstein and what information that they have. And so this has raised even more questions about what more documents are we going to find as they still release some of their findings, of some of their documents, and even photos related to Jeffrey Epstein.

WHITFIELD: All right, Camila DeChalus, thank you so much.

All right. Let's continue this discussion now with Gloria Allred. She's a victim rights attorney who represents several of Jeffrey Epstein's survivors.

Always great to see you.

GLORIA ALLRED, REPRESENTS SEVERAL JEFFREY EPSTEIN VICTIMS: You too.

WHITFIELD: So what did this release reveal to you?

ALLRED: Well, Fredricka, first of all, there is a lot of criticism that these files have been overly redacted. But I woke up this morning to understand that in some cases, they have been under redacted. And what I mean by that is I saw a number of survivors' names which should never have been published, because the whole point is to protect the survivors, the victims in this transparency act.

So anyone who sees a name like that, that should not be in there, please notify the Department of Justice. We have notified our legal team, has notified the department of names that they were told should not be in the files and yet came up in the files. The other concern I have also has to do with the images of some of the potential victims and survivors.

[16:10:06]

That some of those images were not redacted, should have been redacted, and in some cases, the images may be of women unclothed. And that is completely unacceptable. Having said that, there's so much more that we need to see in the files. After all, what is the purpose of the survivors so courageously speaking out and lobbying for the passage of the transparency act? One, they want accountability.

They want to know who else, third persons, rich, powerful, famous men who associated with Jeffrey Epstein. Should they be accountable criminally? Should they be prosecuted? Is there sufficient evidence to prosecute them or not? They want to see the files, and so does the American public. But having said and of course, just because they're in photos associated with Epstein doesn't mean they've committed any crime.

But also the system has failed the survivors, Fredricka, over and over again. And we want to know, I, as a lawyer, want to know, how do we correct the system so that there can be justice for the survivors? It failed them, for example, in Florida in 2008. There was going to be a federal indictment. Theres a 60-page unfulfilled federal indictment of Jeffrey Epstein from that time. We want to see it in the files.

That could be a roadmap to what he did wrong, crimes he may have committed, but wasn't prosecuted for because the federal U.S. attorney at the time, Alex Acosta, decided it should be a state prosecution. He got Jeffrey Epstein a sweetheart deal there. So let's see that indictment and see what a federal prosecutor thought he should be charged with but he wasn't.

WHITFIELD: Yes. Well, I mean, you're talking to some of your clients who were victims of Epstein, and then you heard, you know, on our -- on our network in the last 24 hours, a variety of ladies who have said, including one who says, you know, what was released as a joke, you know, as if this is just stringing, you know, done this way to string people along. So what do you think might be next?

Do you think, even though the deadline may not have been met, which is the criticism of many, including Congress, members of Congress, who say everything wasn't released yesterday, is it your feeling that more is forthcoming?

ALLRED: Hundred percent. And I understand that some more was forthcoming late last night, too. And the deputy attorney general, Todd Blanche, who was in charge to oversee this release of files and who formerly was the criminal defense attorney for President Trump when he was convicted of 34 felonies, he said that more files will be forthcoming by the end of the year. So we need to see everything that is not exempted.

For example, we want to exempt, of course, the victims' names, identities, the family members of some victims are being redacted so that the victims can't be identified that way. We don't want to see child sexual videos, pornography that Jeffrey Epstein did and had. And of course, there's an exception for pending investigations. But I don't know who's being investigated. We know that President Trump said prominent Democrats should be investigated, suggesting President Clinton, but his own chief of staff, Susie Wiles, said that President Clinton didn't do anything wrong. And, of course, that's what former President Clinton said as well.

And so only Democrats, are they being investigated? What about Republicans? What about independents? Why does it matter? We're talking about sexual predators, potential sexual predators who may have conspired with, enabled, assisted Jeffrey Epstein and Miss Maxwell. We want to know who they are, who enabled them. What about banks? Who gave the financial resources so that the sex trafficking of underage girls could take place, or -- and also of adults?

There's so many more questions than there are answers. We want to get some of those answers from the release of the files. And I can assure you, Fredricka, the survivors are not going to be satisfied until everything is out. The good news is Congress has a right to know why the redactions were made. That will have to be explained to Congress. And we want to see congressional hearings taking place where we hear those explanations publicly, and we want to be sure that only what should be redacted is redacted and not other information that might be helping powerful people who, in the words of President Trump, might be hurt.

WHITFIELD: Yes. I mean, as you said, Gloria Allred, we're glad you could be with us.

[16:15:01] But as you said, you know, there are so many answers that people continue to seek, but certainly there seem to be even more questions that have arisen. Thank you so much for your time. Appreciate it.

ALLRED: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Glad you could be with us.

ALLRED: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. Up next, thousands of young people are gathered right now in Phoenix with an eye on the future. They are part of the political movement started by Charlie Kirk, Turning Point USA. We'll have a live report on the group's first conference since his killing.

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[16:20:08]

WHITFIELD: All right. A major gathering of young conservatives is underway right now in Phoenix. It's the first yearly conference of Turning Point USA since the September assassination of its founder, Charlie Kirk. Kirk started the organization back in 2012, and the group is credited with helping boost the youth vote for President Trump in 2024. And now, without Kirk, a simmering battle is underway over the MAGA movement's direction and the leadership of this group.

CNN's Steve Contorno is in Phoenix for us.

Steve, walk us through what's taking place at the event.

STEVE CONTORNO, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Fred, this was supposed to be a weekend for young conservatives to memorialize Charlie Kirk and to move ahead beyond this tumultuous year. But we have seen deep divisions exposed within the MAGA movement. And the stage behind me, we have seen speaker after speaker publicly sparring over Israel and whether to allow conspiracy theorists and white nationalists into the GOP tent, and it has really, really been the talking point of this weekend.

It's also taking place at a time when young people are especially concerned about their future. Take a look at this recent Harvard poll of young voters. It showed that just 13 percent believe that America is headed in the right direction, and 27 percent of even Republicans who are under the age of 30 don't believe that the country is headed -- the country is headed in the wrong direction.

And this is something we have heard throughout this event. There are people concerned about whether they can buy a home, whether A.I. is going to replace their work -- them in the workforce, whether people their age are too attached to social media. It's also something that Charlie Kirk was really concerned about in the days before his death. Listen to one of his final interviews and what he had to say about the plight facing young people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHARLIE KIRK, CO-FOUNDER, TURNING POINT USA: And here's why it should concern conservatives. Because when I'm at dinner parties raising money, some of our donors are a little indifferent about this. They'll have kind of like a, hey, pull yourself up by the bootstraps attitude. That's hard to shake. I don't have that attitude. I actually have a lot more compassion for the 23-year-old that is working a double, double shift and can't afford anything. But even if you don't care about them, you're not going to like the politics that comes next.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CONTORNO: Now, we have already seen some signs that young people are turning away from the Republican Party. We saw in Virginia and New Jersey governor races this year, young people vote for the Democrat much more than the Republican at a higher rate than in 2024. And in that Harvard poll, the Democrats, the young voters said they want to see Democrats in charge of Congress after 2026 by a plus 13 margin.

So clearly, some warning signs for the Republican Party just a year after young people turned out in surprising numbers for President Trump -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Steve Contorno in Phoenix, thanks so much.

All right. Coming up next, we'll dig deep into the president's message and economic policies and how they are actually impacting American families. We're answering questions that you have about inflation, health care, and job prospects for graduating seniors. A panel of experts joins us right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:28:00]

WHITFIELD: All right. Welcome back.

We're going to devote the next 30 minutes to answer some of your questions about the economy, because President Trump, he made a stop in North Carolina where he gave a meandering speech last night touting his economic accomplishments and claiming credit for cooling inflation. But multiple economists tell CNN that insufficient data from the government shutdown make this week's numbers effectively meaningless.

Many Americans continue to feel squeezed by the cost of living and persistent concerns about higher costs indicate that inflation remains top of mind. Despite all of this, the president insists the economy is getting better he says.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're bringing our economy back from the brink of ruin. I am bringing those high prices down and bringing them down very fast. They are all coming down and coming down fast and it's not done yet. But boy, are we making progress. Nobody can believe what's going on. (END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So where do things really stand? I want to discuss with my panel. Joining me right now are Martha Gimbel, executive director of the Budget Lab, Mark Hamrick, a senior economic analyst and Washington bureau chief of Bank Rate, and Hitha Herzog, consumer spending analyst.

Good to see you all. Welcome back.

Martha, let's begin with you. Who's right here, the president or the consumers? He says it's good.

MARTHA GIMBEL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, "THE BUDGET LAB": You know, politicians don't usually do particularly well, saying to consumers, who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes? You know, it is the case that inflation has been slowing down, but it's still really elevated. The labor market is not as strong as it used to be. And also people are still facing elevated prices from a few years ago. And so telling people, no, no, definitely the economy is fine, you know, it's kind of hard to fight back against what people are experiencing day to day.

WHITFIELD: But, Mark, you know, Trump, he's pretty repetitious about all this.

[16:30:03]

He repeated his claim that he inherited an economic disaster from Joe Biden. And for context, inflation was at three percent when Trump took office and is now only slightly lower. So, how much patience is needed if the administration, you know, is steering the country into what the president calls an economic golden age?

MARK HAMRICK, SENIOR ECONOMIC ANALYST & WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, BANKRATE: Well, urging patience isn't also going to be a successful strategy. Consumers are very frustrated by the elevated price levels, the result of historically high inflation. So many inconsistencies or lack of adherence to the truth and what the president has been saying are ill-advised at many levels. He's making in some ways the same mistake the Biden administration made during the campaign. And then, of course, repeated by Kamala Harris in that your lived experience is not legitimate.

And so, on the one hand, he says, we inherited effectively the worst problem in modern American history. But there's no problem now, suggesting that they're unwilling to do anything to address it. So, my sense is that in 2026, affordability is still going to be a keyword. And inflation elevated prices, affordability, along with the potential for at least elevated unemployment, are going to be key concerns for inflation or rather for consumers and voters.

WHITFIELD: Hitha, a key survey from the University of Michigan on Friday showed a small but notable uptick in consumer sentiment. Do you expect that to change any time soon? HITHA HERZOG, CHIEF RESEARCH OFFICER, H SQUARED RESEARCH: You know, Fred, I -- sure, consumer sentiment can be up, but I can also tell you what is coming down very fast. And that's the savings rate here in the United States. It's at about 4.7 percent on average. Long term, the U.S. consumer was savings at a rate of 8.4 percent.

So, when you have a rate that is coming down, when it comes to savings, that means the consumer is not OK. In addition to the fact, I also look at credit card delinquencies. We are at almost 13 percent when it comes to credit card delinquencies -- 90-day delinquencies, right? In lower income zip codes, that goes up to 20 percent.

So, the math isn't nothing here. I mean, it is just not matching up here. And so, we are certainly seeing a consumer. They may feel like the consumer sentiment is OK, but when you look at the numbers overall, they are not.

WHITFIELD: Martha, the wage gain. It's barely keeping pace with inflation, which contributes to the affordability crisis, you know, that we're seeing. How long will it take for paychecks to catch up with the cost of living? I mean, what's going to make that happen, really?

MARTHA GIMBEL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THE BUDGET LAB: One super quick thing on consumer sentiment. It did go up, but it's still about 30 percent down from December of last year. So, this is not good.

On the question. You know, yes, wages are beating inflation. And we should be clear about that, right? That is good news for everyone. But it will take time for people to kind of earn back to where they were.

And also, you know, I come back to this, you know, point that you earn a wage increase, but price increases feel like there's something that's happening to you. And it just feels very unfair to people when they're working really hard to get that raise. And then they go to the grocery store, they get the new bill from their daycare, and it's all eaten up. So, it's really hard to feel like you're just keeping your head above water.

WHITFIELD: Mark, you know, Trump, you know, promised an economic boom, but inflation has stayed high. After his tariffs hit the job market was sharply weakened, the economy losing jobs in three of the past six months. So, what is the solution here, lowering costs or boosting jobs?

HAMRICK: Well, obviously, it would be some of all of the above. The question is how many levers does the administration have to pull in that? And the easiest solution would be to wake up tomorrow and say, no more tariffs. Because we look at what has occurred during 2025. And let's talk about perhaps three major policy movements. Number one, tariffs, taxes on imports. Number two, passage of the tax bill. And thirdly, the government shutdown.

So, two of those are self-inflicted wounds. The third will lend some tailwinds to the economy in early 2026, but also at a cost with respect to long-term debt. That will subtract to growth in the long term.

WHITFIELD: All right. Stick around, everybody. My panel will be back for more of your money questions answered right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:39:11]

WHITFIELD: All right. Welcome back. We're continuing our conversation on the economy and solutions for you with Martha, Mark, and Hitha. All right. I'd like to specifically discuss now the Affordable Care Act.

Congressional Republicans sent lawmakers home for the holidays without resolving the Obamacare subsidies, a cliff facing millions of Americans on New Year's Day. So, the move infuriated some of their own rank and file. Martha, you first. What are the consequences this inaction might have on federal spending, particularly in funding health care for millions?

GIMBEL: I mean, spending money on the subsidies would mean that the government has to spend more money. On the other hand, one of the things that this is going to do is raise insurance prices for everyone else who is on the exchanges, because without those subsidies, some people are going to start thinking about dropping healthcare. It's just going to become too expensive for them.

And then you end up in a classic spiral. The people for whom health insurance, they're the healthiest. They don't need it as much. They'll drop it. The sickest remain. That drives prices up. And we go from there. So, you know, this is not a good outlook for health insurance markets and for anyone who needs to buy health insurance over the next year.

[16:40:26]

WHITFIELD: All right. And, Mark, I mean, what are -- what are your thoughts on how Americans facing increased costs for healthcare, you know, can save in other sectors of their budget or even be able to afford continuing their healthcare?

HAMRICK: Well, we're talking about people who are likely facing, you know, financial challenges in the first place. That's why they're on the exchanges very often. You lump that in with the pending cuts to Medicaid. And I don't think these problems are immediately or easily resolvable by the average household.

We think about sort of the three legs of the unaffordability stool right now, higher education, housing, and healthcare. And so, we can talk all day long about inflation, hopefully getting back to the Fed's two percent target, which isn't expected to happen until perhaps two or three years from now. But we have these other factors that really knock people for a loop and really can be financially devastating, leaving aside the fact that if they're facing a health crisis, they may not have care or they may be inflicted with severe financial challenges.

WHITFIELD: Yes. Hitha --

HERZOG: Yes.

WHITFIELD: What do you anticipate in terms of the kind of decisions that families are -- you know, individuals are going to have to make because healthcare costs have gone up? And, you know, they need their healthcare coverage, but they also have other needs.

HERZOG: And we're, you know, not even talking about the fact that childcare is also incredibly expensive. And if you compare that to wages, so wages have gone up 38 percent-ish overall. But with childcare, the rising cost of childcare, that's up 40 percent. Now, compare that to the lowest level of the silver plan on the healthcare exchange, right? That itself went up 40 percent.

So, overall, the American consumer, if you are dealing with childcare costs, you are having to make a very difficult decision. Are you going to pay for childcare? Are you going to pay for your own healthcare? Are you going to pay for your children's health care? Or are you going to cut back on some of those groceries?

You know, again, it's a very difficult decision. And we're not even talking about the rising costs of rent or mortgage payments. It's just -- you know, to cut back, you would have to just take a cut out of something that is, you know, obviously a need for the American consumer.

WHITFIELD: President Donald Trump, you know, announcing this week that nearly 1.5 million military service members will receive checks for $1,776 before Christmas. Money, he says, the government collected through the tariffs. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: 1,450,000 military service members will receive a special, we call warrior dividend, before Christmas. A warrior dividend in honor of our nation's founding in 1776. We are sending every soldier $1,776. Think of that. And the checks are already on the way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. So, Martha, how do you see this playing out? Where is this money coming from?

GIMBEL: So, this money was actually passed as part of the one Big Beautiful Bill Act. It's not coming from tariffs. I should say, at this point, I believe the president is up to ten things that he said he's going to pay for with tariffs. So, it just seems to be using tariff revenue for everything, which again, Congress has to appropriate money.

You know, this will be helpful to those families. I do want to, in general, encourage politicians not to immediately default to checks as a way to address inflationary concerns. We've seen this before.

WHITFIELD: Right.

GIMBEL: And when you're just writing checks, that actually tends to drive prices higher. So, you provide some short-term relief. But then in the long run, it just makes the problem worse. It's very tempting, but it is actually not helpful.

WHITFIELD: And, Hitha, you know, to Martha's point, can the president just decide how revenue from tariffs is going to get spent?

HERZOG: Yes -- no. They need congressional approval there. And, you know, our military personnel deserve all of our support. I mean, they work so hard. You know, there is a lot of gratitude towards them.

But when it comes, you know, to Martha's point, it's not going to be covered by tariffs. And I want to point out something too, just in Pennsylvania alone, I think the tariffs that people have paid, small businesses, it runs around $5.2 billion. And that's almost up half than it was in 2024.

So, these small businesses are the ones that are also getting hit from these tariffs. In addition to the fact that, you know, we don't know where that revenue is going to go. So, we also have to take into consideration how that's impacting small businesses in these states.

[16:45:14]

WHITFIELD: All right. Everyone, stay with us. We've got more to talk about. We'll talk about the future of the economy through the eyes of America's future. What does Gen Z think about their chances of actually reaching the American dream?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:50:04]

WHITFIELD: My economic panel is back with me. Let's discuss Gen Z and their outlook on the economy. CNN recently spoke with young conservatives attending AmericaFest, Turning Point USA's annual gathering. And the outlook was pretty unsettling.

Many said that they were not optimistic or able to wait for policy changes to improve their financial futures. Homeownership, in fact, was a big concern. And that reflects data from the National Association of Realtors, which found the median age of first time home buyers now is hitting 40. That's the highest it's ever been.

So, Mark, are the odds stacked against Gen Z when it comes to the economy? You know, are they -- or are they giving up prematurely?

HERZOG: No.

GIMBEL: (INAUDIBLE)

WHITFIELD: Mark can't hear me. OK, Hitha, you say no. OK. No one hear me? Hello?

GIMBEL: I can hear you.

WHITFIELD: OK.

GIMBEL: I can hear you.

WHITFIELD: So, Martha, you -- OK. So, Martha, you ask -- you answer that question then. What up with these, you know, Gen Z folks? I mean, are they kind of giving up on the whole idea of homeownership? I mean, what's happening?

GIMBEL: I mean, what people are feeling is real, right? Housing affordability for first-time home buyers is the worst that it has been since the 1980s.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

GIMBEL: So, I -- you know, I -- what -- people are feeling the stress that people are feeling, the sense that it is really hard right now is absolutely real. I do want to say two things. One, I do really want people to keep in mind that, you know, over time, living standards have gone up. My life is so much better than my mother's life, which is so much better than my grandmother's life. I'm really hopeful my daughter's life will be better.

The other thing I do want to remind people is that we have actually been here before as a country. You know, affordability in the late 1970s and early 1980s was not good. And we got out of it.

And so, you know, I want to say to people, yes, it is really hard right now. But I do want to encourage people that we have gotten out of this before.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

GIMBEL: And to keep having hope that we will get there in the future.

WHITFIELD: OK. Well, you know, a lot still remain hopeful. But then they're looking at their bank accounts, and they're spending every dime that they make. And so, the idea of saving for that down payment for that first home or whatever else seems like a pipe dream. So, is there advice to some of these, you know, Gen Z folks who are like, I want the American dream, but right now, I can't do it? So, instead, what's the replacement, I guess? Or what's the new American dream for many of them, if home ownership seems out of reach?

GIMBEL: You know, I don't think that we should say that we should be giving up on home ownership as an important part of the American dream. I do think that we really need to make sure that we are making the policy changes that we need to bring housing affordability back. We have not had enough home construction in this country.

I should say, one thing that is not going to make housing affordability better is current immigration policy. The construction industry is very reliant on immigrants. And so, you know, deporting people, making people scared to go to work, that is not going to help us build the homes that we need so that everyone can afford the American dream.

WHITFIELD: OK. And I understand that Mark can hear me now. Mark. So, let's talk about this recent, you know, poll from the Harvard Kennedy Institute of Politics, finding that adults under the age of 30 are three times more likely to believe artificial intelligence will take opportunities away from them. And if many feel there is an apparent, you know, stereotype that Gen Z is, you know, lazy or less hardworking than their peers, how are they expected to get ahead professionally? I mean, that's their fear that a lot of people interpret them that way.

HAMRICK: I would say, first of all, Fredricka, if you're afraid the robots are going to take over, learn how to be a robot overlord. You need to lean into the skills of tomorrow. And there may be some negative impact with respect to A.I. And there are some recent research indicate that's happening already, particularly with younger or entry level workers.

But if you can help to build the A.I. of the future, use those tools in the workplace. In whatever enterprise where you are employed, you will be winning. And so, I don't think we need to be pessimistic about this, but we need to be aware of the risks.

WHITFIELD: OK. In 30 seconds or less, Hitha, I understand you can hear me.

HERZOG: Yes.

WHITFIELD: You know, what's your advice? How do you restore the hope, or, you know, I guess some inspiration to some of these Gen Zers who are a little concerned about the future?

HERZOG: Listen, I'm hopeful for them. I think they're very pragmatic. It's a very pragmatic generation. They understand that home ownership may not be for everyone, the same thing with higher education. They are heavily reliant on cash. They're skeptical of credit cards, but they can really pull themselves up by the bootstraps.

And, you know, according to an after-pay study, 38 percent of them don't have $800 in emergency savings. But that's not going to deter them from moving forward and being pragmatic about how they're making their money, how they're going to spend their money, and how they're going to save their money.

[16:55:19]

WHITFIELD: All right. Hitha, Mark, Martha, thanks to all of you. Appreciate it. Hopefully, people feel a little bit more encouraged about the days ahead economically.

Thank you so much, everybody, for joining us today. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. The CNN NEWSROOM continues with Erica Hill next.

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