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Court Reveals New Details of How Deadly Bondi Beach Attack Unfolded; DOJ Restores Photo Containing Image of Trump as Controversy Grows Over Redacted Files; Facing the Challenge of a Fracturing MAGA Coalition; Questions Still Surround Reiner Murders; Finnish Reindeer Under Threat from Russian Wolves. Aired 12-1a ET
Aired December 22, 2025 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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POLO SANDOVAL, CNN ANCHOR: Hey everybody. It's great to start the week with you. I'm Polo Sandoval, live in New York. Wherever you may be watching from, welcome to CNN NEWSROOM. And here's what's coming your way.
[00:00:47]
Australian officials in one state, they are vowing to crack down on hate speech just a week after the deadly antisemitic attack on Bondi Beach.
And bipartisan criticism, it seems to be growing over the Justice Department's heavily redacted release of the Epstein files. I'll ask a legal expert what recourse is left for Congress, as they seek justice for the Epstein survivors.
And a little known, yet deadly, consequence of Putin's war is playing out far from the front lines in Ukraine.
ANNOUNCER: Live from New York, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Polo Sandoval.
SANDOVAL: Just a day after a memorial for the 15 victims of the Bondi Beach massacre, Australian officials, they are looking at how to prevent a tragedy just like that from happening again.
Lawmakers in the state of New South Wales, they are attending an emergency session of Parliament. They are debating the new laws to tighten gun control in the state, to limit protests, and also to ban the display of terror symbols and hate speech.
Thousands of mourners, they gathered under tight police security at Bondi Beach on Sunday evening to mark a week since two gunmen targeted a Jewish festival. New South Wales's premier says new laws are necessary to prevent such incidents.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS MINNS, NEW SOUTH WALES PREMIER: Today we're introducing new laws, tough new laws to protect the community, to crack down on hate and strengthen public safety. The legislation bans the public displays of terrorist symbols; outlaws violence, incitement to violence in New South Wales; and gives police stronger powers during public assemblies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANDOVAL: And all this amid some criticism aimed at Australian officials. We are also learning more about how last week's attack was planned and also how it was carried out, as the sole surviving gunman made a court appearance via video link just a short while ago.
I want to go now to CNN's Mike Valerio, who's been following the latest out of court. Joining us live from Beijing.
Mike, good to see you. Some of this new evidence that's been surfacing out of court, it's -- it's pretty disturbing.
MIKE VALERIO, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I think that could be the understatement of the early afternoon here on this side of the world, Polo.
So, this information is coming from our star reporting team in Australia, Hilary Whiteman and Angus Watson.
New court documents, as we have the politics track. This is the police track that is unfolding. And the headline, as we understand it, is that these attackers, according to police and their narration, their narrative of the events, the attackers had explosive devices that they threw at the crowd on that night. And those devices, thank God, did not explode. But police said they were viable.
So, the most compelling elements, Polo, that we have from these new court documents are photos of the new details and allegations that are emerging from police in New South Wales, in Sydney. So, we're going to show a couple of them on the screen. I'm going to take you through them one by one, kind of put them into four groups.
So, the most important are the two pipe bombs, two IEDs thrown by the suspects that you see in the photos. Important to note, though, according to this new information, these two accused by police made three pipe bombs, a tennis ball bomb; threw them at the crowd. And they also had one larger IED in the trunk of their car that police were able to find and render safe after the shooting stopped, after the father was killed and the son taken into custody.
The second photo group that we have here is of the son assailant, seen training, tactically -- appearing to tactically fire a shotgun. I should say trying to move tactically and doing shotgun practice in the countryside of New South Wales.
And this is taken from cell phone video from an iPhone that police seized. But importantly, from October of this year.
This goes to strengthen the case that investigators have showing premeditation. And then, if we fast forward a little bit into the future, we're going
to December 12. An image between 9:20 p.m. and 10 p.m. This is Friday before the attack, which shows a dark street in Sydney. But the car belonging to the father and son pulling up to the same footbridge where they would open fire two days later on Sunday.
[00:05:14]
So, police investigators are saying this is them scoping out what they were going to do, doing sort of a dry run.
And then the final photo group that police pointed out, this is 2 a.m. on the day of the attack. The father and son, according to police, rented out one room of a house from an Airbnb in a suburb of Sydney, which police are saying this was like their staging post.
And in the 2 a.m. hour, Polo, they leave the house carrying stuff that seems to be long, bulky items believed to be long guns, believed to be the bombs, and put them in their car. Again, at that 2 a.m. hour, and then carry out the attack on that same day hours later.
So, to say that this is compelling is certainly, again, I think, the understatement of our news cycle right now. But certainly, just adding new details to the level of preparation and how much worse this could have been, if those bombs exploded.
SANDOVAL: And Mike, as you were going down that long list of new developments, we also saw some of those court handout photos, including an ISIS Flag.
Obviously, this is coming as Australian authorities are efforting (ph) legislation to -- to ban extremist flags. Can you bring us up to speed on the efforts right now, especially there in New South Wales where the attack happened, to prevent hate speech? Any updates out of this parliamentary debate that's playing out?
VALERIO: Yes. So, there is an effort to ban the words, "globalize the intifada."
So, the ISIS flag is already banned. You cannot fly the ISIS flag in Australia, because it is a symbol of hate speech. So, actually, one of the accused, the surviving son, is charged with that in the police documents.
But of course, pro-Palestinian groups are saying that they use that phrase to draw attention to Israel's occupation of the West Bank and the war in Gaza, and a means to try to rally global efforts to stop both of those things.
But then, of course, there are Jewish groups, not only in Australia, but across the world, that are saying "globalize the infit [SIC] -- intifada" -- excuse me -- is a rallying cry for hate groups to wage violence against Jews around the world.
So, that is something that is going on in Parliament right now. We're going to monitor it, and of course, bring you the latest on air and on CNN.com -- Polo.
SANDOVAL: Mike Valerio with that live report out of Beijing. Thank you, Mike.
The United States, it is currently pursuing another oil tanker in international waters that it tried to intercept off the coast of Venezuela.
Officials say that the U.S. Coast Guard tried to board the ship as it moved toward Venezuela to pick up oil, but the tanker, it refused to stop.
Well, the ship, it is currently on a list of vessels that are sanctioned for ties to Iran. President Trump's crackdown on Venezuela's oil industry, it includes a blockade on all sanctioned tankers.
On December 10, the U.S. seized one tanker linked to Venezuelan oil and then another one this past Saturday.
President Trump's escalation with Venezuela, it has sparked criticism, even from lawmakers in his own party.
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SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): I consider it a provocation and a prelude to war, and I hope we don't go to war with Venezuela.
Look, at any point in time, there are 20, 30 governments around the world that we don't like that are either socialist or communist, or have human rights violations. We could really, literally, go through a couple dozen.
But it isn't the job of the American soldier to be the policeman of the world.
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SANDOVAL: And late on Sunday, Venezuelan president Nicolas Maduro responded, saying that the U.S. Is waging a campaign of, quote, "psychological terrorism" against his country.
Earlier, CNN spoke to former U.S. Ambassador to Venezuela, Charles Shapiro. He asked if he thinks -- or at least he was asked if he thinks that -- if Donald Trump's expanded campaign against Venezuela could possibly force Maduro out of power. And here was his answer.
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CHARLES SHAPIRO, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO VENEZUELA: Well, in pressure to Venezuela, 90 percent of Venezuela's exports are oil. So, it pressures Venezuela.
The question for me is how much does it pressure Maduro himself? You see that around the world: where you put pressure on dictators, and it hurts the country; it hurts the money going into the treasury of the country. But it doesn't necessarily impact the dictator.
I mean, the economy is in ruins, so people are unhappy. They had elections a year and a half ago that Maduro lost the vote, but then stole the vote count.
So, people are unhappy. Both Venezuelans, the 9 million Venezuelans outside Venezuela and the 30 million Venezuelans inside the country.
But the real issue is Maduro and the key group of people around him. And how much are they going to dig in?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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SANDOVAL: The U.S. held separate talks with Ukrainian and Russian negotiators in Miami, Florida, over the weekend. Ukrainian officials calling their talks productive and constructive, where negotiators concentrated on developing a 20-point peace plan by President Donald Trump.
The U.S. and Ukrainian delegations, they also met with Europe's national security advisers.
A senior Russian negotiator said that their talks with the U.S. were proceeding constructively, though a Kremlin aide called Ukraine and Europe's changes to the previous U.S. proposal unconstructive.
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YURI USHAKOV, KREMLIN AIDE (through translator): I think that the majority of offers will not work for us, because we will stick to the plan that we have decided on in Anchorage and at the other meetings with the American representatives. Yes, what was offered, in my opinion, is quite unconstructive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANDOVAL: When we come back here on CNN NEWSROOM, Democrats and Republicans, they are pressuring the Trump administration over the latest batch of documents from the Jeffrey Epstein files. Many of them, they want more documents released. We'll break it all down after the break.
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SANDOVAL: Want to take you to Washington now, where several lawmakers are accusing President Trump's Justice Department of flouting the law by releasing only some of the Epstein files.
Well, since Friday, the agency has released thousands more documents related to convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. Problem is, many of them look like this. Many of them heavily or, really, completely redacted. There is some bipartisan charge in Congress right now that's demanding
the DOJ release all the files. One lawmaker says that the administration's actions are an insult to Epstein's survivors and to Americans demanding answers.
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REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): I'll tell you why. I've talked to the survivors, why this is such a slap in the face. One of the survivors said they released her name accidentally, but they still have not released the FBI file about the people who abused her at her request.
And the problem here is that there are rich and powerful people. We all know this. There are 1,200 victims. There are rich and powerful people who either engaged in this abuse, covered it up, or were on this island.
And what the American people want to know is who are these people? And instead of holding them accountable, Pam Bondi is breaking the law. And this is the corrupt system, the Epstein class, that people are sick of.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANDOVAL: Now the DOJ is defending its redactions, arguing that it has taken extreme caution to protect victims. Also, the Justice Department says that a photo that includes images of President Trump has been restored to the Epstein files online database. That photo disappeared from the website on Saturday.
CNN's Kevin Liptak explains from Washington.
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KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The Trump administration is on the defensive [SIC] over --
LIPTAK (voice-over): -- bipartisan criticism of its release of Jeffrey Epstein documents on Friday. Criticism coming both from Republicans and Democrats, who say that the Justice Department didn't follow the letter of the law by releasing all of those documents within that 30- day deadline.
Questions about why so much information was redacted; and questions from advocates and victims who wonder why so many of the documents that may have contained some of the revelations that they have been looking for were not included in this latest batch.
LIPTAK: Now, when it comes to this question of whether the Justice Department removed documents that it had previously released, we are getting more information about why they did that.
For example, there was --
LIPTAK (voice-over): -- an image that included a photograph of President Trump that appeared on the Justice Department's website on Friday. On Saturday, it had disappeared.
What the Justice Department said Sunday is that the Southern District of New York flagged an image of President Trump for potential further action to protect victims. They say out of an abundance of caution, the Justice Department temporarily removed the image for further review, and then, quote, "After the review, it was determined there is no evidence that any Epstein victims are depicted in the photograph, and it has been reposted without any alteration or redaction."
LIPTAK: And that does echo what we heard from the No. 2 at the Justice Department --
LIPTAK (voice-over): -- the deputy attorney general, Todd Blanche, who was out speaking on Sunday, really trying to rebut some of this criticism, saying that the Justice Department has hundreds of lawyers poring through more than a million documents, trying to ensure that victims' identities aren't exposed.
LIPTAK: And he shed some more light about why some of these images appeared on the website and then seemed to disappear. Listen to what he said.
TODD BLANCHE, U.S. DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: There were a number of photographs that were pulled down after being released on Friday. That's because a judge in New York has ordered us to listen to any victim or victim rights group, if they have any concerns about the material that we're putting up.
And so, when we hear concerns, whether it's photographs of women that we do not believe are victims or we didn't have information to show that they were victims, but we learned that there are concerns, of course, we're taking that photograph down and we're going to address it. If we need to redact faces or other information, we will, and then we'll put it back up.
LIPTAK (voice-over): Now, Blanche was also clear that removing that image of President Trump had nothing to do with the president himself. He said, quote, "We are not redacting information around President Trump."
So, very much trying to tamp down on some of the criticism here.
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LIPTAK: Of course, criticism of how the Trump administration has handled all of this did not begin on Friday. It's been brewing for months and months, originating in large part by Trump's own supporters, who are animated by this issue of the Jeffrey Epstein files.
You have heard the administration admit that some of this has gone south.
LIPTAK (voice-over): You heard the chief of staff Susie Wiles, say in an interview released last week that the attorney general, Pam Bondi, had whiffed the initial release of these Epstein documents. LIPTAK: I think this release and the criticism around it only serves
to underscore that President Trump will continue to be dogged by this matter. It doesn't seem to be dying down in the foreseeable future.
Kevin Liptak, CNN, West Palm Beach, Florida.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANDOVAL: Yes, without a doubt, it is not going anywhere. And partly because U.S. House Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries says that says -- says that, under the law, the Department of Justice has to explain to Congress why it did not release all of the files.
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REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): It does appear, of course, that this initial document release is inadequate. It falls short of what the law requires.
Now, the statute requires the so-called Department of Justice, at this moment, within 15 days, to provide a written explanation to Congress and to the American people as to why they've withheld certain documents.
We expect that that written justification should be transmitted within the next week or so, and then Congress can take it from there, as it relates to determining why this noncompliance has occurred.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANDOVAL: Well, the next U.S. presidential election, it is still about three years away, but still, it will be the first time in 12 years that there won't be a sitting president vying for the nomination of either party.
And now there's CNN polling that's showing that about half of Americans are already giving that race some thought. Thirty-three percent of those polled say that they have got a possible candidate in mind for that election in 2028.
California Governor Gavin Newsom, he seems to be earning the top spot among Democrats and left-leaning independents. And Vice President J.D. Vance, he appears to be the clear early leader for the Republican Party right now, at 22 percent.
But there is still plenty more there. Experts say a lot can change in three years.
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LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR POLITICS, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: Vance starts out as the heavy favorite. You could not possibly describe him any other way.
Having said that, he has to worry about where President Trump's popularity goes in the next three years. The more unpopular Trump becomes, especially on the Republican side, the more difficult it will be for him to be seen as the logical successor to the nomination.
Now, so far, the MAGA troops have been holding pretty strong for both Trump and for Vance. But the non-MAGA Republicans -- and they're still a significant minority part of the Republican Party -- their intensity of support for Trump has been declining.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANDOVAL: And the next presidential election is on the mind of some young voters, as well. A gathering of conservative influencers and young Republicans at the Turning Point USA conference, it's offered a glimpse of some of the challenges that Vance could face if he runs for president in a few years.
Less than a year into Donald Trump's second term, there's some cracks growing in the MAGA coalition, as CNN's Steve Contorno explains.
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STEVE CONTORNO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Vice President J.D. Vance addressed the Turning Point convention in Phoenix, Arizona, on Sunday, capping a weekend of tense and simmering conversations and debates.
All throughout the event, we saw several speakers publicly clashing with each other over key issues like whether the U.S. should support Israel in its war with Hamas and the influence of Israel on U.S. policy.
Now, Vance --
CONTORNO (voice-over): -- himself said he welcomed this debate within the party and discouraged the attendees from shying away from it.
J.D. VANCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: I know that some of you are impatient at the pace of progress, and my response to that is "good." Be impatient.
Use that desire for justice for your country as fuel to get involved in this movement in a bigger and better and more powerful way.
I know some of you are discouraged by the infighting over any number of issues. Don't be discouraged. Wouldn't you rather lead a movement of free thinkers who sometimes disagree, than a bunch of drones who take their orders from George Soros?
CONTORNO (voice-over): Earlier in the weekend, Vance was endorsed for president by Erika Kirk, the widow of Turning Point USA's founder, Charlie Kirk.
Now, Vance did not directly address that support during his remarks here, but he did take --
CONTORNO: -- some shots at some of the leading Democratic contenders that he may face, if he does decide to run, including Democratic Governor Gavin Newsom, as well as former Vice President Kamala Harris.
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Now, if you take a look at this CNN poll, it shows that Vance is in strong position to lead this party beyond Trump. Twenty-two percent of Republican and Republican-leaning voters said that they would like to see Vance run in 2028. That far outpaces any other Republican figure, none of which eclipsed 5 percent.
Steve Contorno, CNN, Phoenix, Arizona.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANDOVAL: Well, it's now been a week since Hollywood was rocked by the murder of an icon and his wife. Still ahead, we'll be looking at the many questions still surrounding the tragic deaths of Rob and Michele Reiner.
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SANDOVAL: And welcome back. I'm Polo Sandoval, live in New York. Let's take a look at today's top stories.
The United States is pursuing an oil tanker in international waters that it tried to intercept off the coast of Venezuela. Officials say that the U.S. Coast Guard tried to board the ship but that the tanker refused to stop.
It's on a list of vessels sanctioned for ties to Iran. This month, the U.S. seized two other oil tankers connected to Venezuela.
U.S. negotiators, they met with Ukrainian and Russian officials separately over the weekend in Miami. Ukraine's negotiators called the meetings productive and constructive.
A key Russian negotiator said the talks with the U.S. were proceeding constructively. But a Kremlin aide criticized Europe's input in the peace proposals.
Nigeria says 130 kidnaped children have been released. They were taken by gunmen from a Catholic school in North Central Nigeria in November.
A spokesman said that they were -- that they are now -- none. None of them remain in captivity at this hour. No details were given on the circumstances surrounding their release.
Well, there's a growing, very vocal call of -- really, a chorus -- among lawmakers right now that's calling on the Department of Justice to release more of the Epstein files. And this comes after, on Friday, thousands of documents related to the convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein were released.
The thing is, many of them look just like this. They are completely redacted.
The Department of Justice says that they're trying to protect the victims. And this comes, again, after that massive document dump on Friday.
A lot of redacted documents, few answers for Epstein survivors and their attorneys.
So, let's dive deeper into what could potentially come next. Let's bring in now Neama Rahmani. He's -- he's a former federal prosecutor and president of West Coast Trial Lawyers. He joins us from Los Angeles.
It's good to see you, Neama.
NEAMA RAHMANI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Good to see you, too, Polo.
SANDOVAL: So, on Sunday, we learned that some lawmakers plan to try to compel the DOJ to release more Epstein files. I want you to listen to Kentucky Republican Thomas Massie, who essentially coauthored the law that requires the government to release these documents. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): The quickest way, and I think most expeditious way, to get justice for these victims is to bring inherent contempt against Pam Bondi. And that doesn't require going through the courts, and give her -- and basically, Ro Khanna and I are talking about and drafting that right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANDOVAL: Ro Khanna, of course, his Democratic counterpart here. So, how do you see that process playing out? Do you think that this is something that could eventually end up in court?
RAHMANI: I do, and I respect Tom Massie and Ro Khanna, who have been really pushing this initiative in a real bipartisan way.
But I think it has to be two processes. I do think you're going to need the courts, and this is why.
Obviously, contempt of Congress is one possible route. But who enforces contempt orders? The Department of Justice.
I think you're going to need the judiciary here, an Article III judge, to weigh in, because not only were the complete Epstein files not produced on Friday by the deadline as they should, but it at least appears, on their face, for these redactions to be extensive and potentially overbroad.
So, what a judge is going to have to do, either himself or herself, or appoint a special master, retired judge, to actually go through these files themselves and to make a determination whether these redactions are, indeed, appropriate.
Because if you look at the plain language of the Epstein Files Transparency Act, the only redactions that are necessary are those to protect the identity of victims of sex abuse. And at least on their face, it seems like this was way overbroad.
SANDOVAL: And let's expand on that last point for me just now. The DOJ keeps saying that those -- those redactions that you mentioned, that -- they argue that it has taken extreme caution to protect the victims of -- in this sex trafficking case.
Generally, and from your experience as a federal prosecutor, I mean, what are some of those redactions that are typically permitted? And -- and what is some of the key evidence that maybe could be public information that we should be seeing according to the law?
RAHMANI: Polo, there's really three categories of information that are typically withheld.
The first is information related to victims. We've talked about that both under the act and federal law in general. We don't want to out victims of sex abuse and revictimize them.
[00:35:05]
The second are grand jury materials under Rule of Criminal Procedure 6. And judges have ruled that, because of the Transparency Act, that rule no longer applies. And they began to unseal grand jury transcripts in the Epstein prosecutions, both the first and second, as well as Ghislaine Maxwell.
Then there's a third category of information, which is privileged information. That includes the law enforcement privilege: there's a pending investigation. The deliberative process privilege: if an investigation is closed. And the executive privilege: communications between high-level executives.
The Department of Justice really should not be withholding documents on the basis of privilege.
First, they have promised to make these files public. This is something that Pam Bondi has done. So, the DOJ can waive this privilege at any time. And it seems like the plain language of the act doesn't contemplate this privilege.
So, if the executive is going to withhold documents on that basis, I think it's inappropriate. So, a judge should really weigh in and compel them.
The question is, the Department of Justice doesn't comply with the judicial order or contempt of Congress, where does that leave us? Unfortunately, those who are tasked with enforcing the law here aren't following it.
SANDOVAL: Let's stay on privilege protections, because, as we learned in that document dump, that one of the Epstein survivors had turned to the FBI decades ago in the mid-90s with a complaint, or at least with initial complaint.
So, the sort of inner communications between the FBI, perhaps other federal investigators at the time, that would have potentially revealed the discussions about whether or not to proceed with charges, would that be protected by -- by these privilege protections?
RAHMANI: Typically, yes. And you're right. That's what I want to see. I don't want to see pictures of Jeffrey Epstein with Bill Clinton and Donald Trump. That's not evidence that can potentially make its way into a courtroom.
I want to see those FBI interview memoranda, the 402. We know that FBI agents interviewed the victims. Why have those memos not been made public?
Obviously, protect the identity of those victims, right?
Why aren't we seeing the gigabytes or terabytes of surveillance video from Epstein's island? We know they exist, because those terabytes were referenced in the discovery disputes in the criminal cases, as well as the Ghislaine Maxwell and other victims' civil litigation.
So, if the DOJ is going to stand by these privileges -- and they may have a legal right to do so. Typically, the department does not make its investigative files public, whether it's a pending case or even a closed case.
If you issue a subpoena or a FOIA or Freedom of Information Act request, the DOJ doesn't normally turn over its files.
But here you have a specific act, as well as the promise by the attorney general of the United States and the president of the United States to make these files public. So why are they hiding behind these privileges? That's the question that I and the American people have.
SANDOVAL: And the survivors do, as well.
I have a few more seconds with you, Neama. Some of the survivors, they allege that a number of powerful men, they are yet to be held accountable. Could some of this decades-old information in the files actually lead to new criminal charges after all this time?
RAHMANI: Potentially, yes, but we need the testimony of those victims.
SANDOVAL: Yes.
RAHMANI: Let's not forget, even if it's an FBI memo or a statement, that's all hearsay. Under the Confrontation Clause of the Constitution, a criminal defendant has the right to cross-examine their accuser.
So, we need victims that are ready, willing, and able to testify in a court of law. The Epstein files themselves won't result in a criminal prosecution, but a willing victim certainly may.
SANDOVAL: Reama Rahmani, thank you so much for all this excellent and really important perspective.
And we'll be right back after this.
RAHMANI: Thanks, Polo. Talk soon. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[00:43:31]
SANDOVAL: "Saturday Night Live" paid tribute to the late Rob Reiner over the weekend. Reiner was the show's third ever host back in 1975.
Hard to believe it's now been a week since Reiner and his wife, Michele, were found dead in their California home. Tributes have poured in for the Hollywood legend, who directed iconic films like "Spinal Tap," "The Princess Bride," "When Harry Met Sally." That's just to name three.
Reiner's son Nick, he's been accused of fatally stabbing his parents. He appeared in court last week.
And there are so many questions that remain about the hours before and after the death of this couple.
Let's get more now from Dominic Patton. He's the executive editor for legal, labor and politics at "Deadline Hollywood." He joins me live from Los Angeles.
Dominic, it's great to -- I'm so glad you could join us. Thank you so much.
DOMINIC PATTON, EXECUTIVE EDITOR FOR LEGAL, LABOR AND POLITICS, "DEADLINE HOLLYWOOD": Thank you for having me.
SANDOVAL: I'm curious if we could dive right into perhaps some of your latest reporting. I mean, what is the latest? Have you heard an update on the investigation thus far? Now, a week later, a week after their bodies were found in their home?
PATTON: Well, yes. What we know from the LAPD is there is an ongoing investigation; that they are looking at exactly what occurred in the hours of last weekend.
We have a pretty good sense of what that is now. We have from the medical -- the L.A. County medical examiner, a sense of the time. The Reiners definitely died, we know now, on December 14. There was some suspicion of maybe they had -- bodies had been there overnight, et cetera, et cetera.
That has pretty much been determined. The date of death was December 14th, which was, of course, the same day that they were discovered by their daughter, their youngest child, and a friend of their daughter's, who promptly called 911.
[00:45:08]
L.A. Fire Department appeared on the scene pretty quickly, and an ambulance, followed by the LAPD.
As we also know, as you -- as you pointed out, Nick Reiner, the youngest son, middle child of Rob and Michele Reiner, was very quickly apprehended and is currently in custody in downtown L.A. He has been charged with two counts of first-degree murder, which usually in the state of California, results in life without the possibility of parole, if you are found guilty, there is a possibility that as the L.A. district -- county district attorney said earlier this week, that that might actually include the death penalty.
What we're seeing now, almost a week afterwards, is a family in mourning. We know there's been some gatherings at various homes of various Reiners across Los Angeles. Friends like the likes of Billy Crystal, Larry David, and others have come out and spoken about this.
And I still think, on this last day of Hanukkah, from a tragedy that happened on the first day of Hanukkah, there is shock at what has happened; shock at the reaction of a son, potentially, allegedly killing his parents, a son who clearly struggled with addiction issues; shock at the president of the United States acting in such a cruel and -- and soulless manner when speaking about this; and shock in trying to understand almost something that's completely unable to be understood.
SANDOVAL: Yes, that shock likely not to wear off anytime soon.
When you consider other high-profile cases that the LAPD has worked on, just to give us a sense, perhaps a rough estimate of maybe the timing of how soon we can get a better, a clearer picture, I should say, of the events of last week. I mean, is there any telling when we could perhaps have a better understanding of these murders?
PATTON: Well, I think some of that, my friend, depends on Nick Reiner.
The 32-year-old is, as we understand, in solitary confinement, in prison in downtown L.A. When he appeared in court last week, where he only really said three words, which was, "Yes, your honor," when asked if he was willing to waive his right to a speedy trial.
He was wearing an -- he was in shackles, and he was wearing what is essentially a suicide-proof outfit. So, that gives you a little bit of a sense where this is.
There's been a lot of stories out there about his mental state, his state and his struggle with addiction and what have you. I think there's going to have to be a greater sense of what exactly happened.
There's been talk of this party at Conan O'Brien's house and an argument between the parents and Nick Reiner. I think there's trying to draw out a pattern here.
Also trying to get a sense of we know he was living in the guest house on their property for the past several weeks, and again, I don't think anyone's saying anything out of school. The Reiners were very open about their son's struggle with addiction. They -- he -- Rob Reiner and Nick Reiner even made a film about it about ten years ago called "Being Charlie." Fictional take on a father and son, with a son dealing with addiction issues.
So, I think that that's a lot of what the LAPD have to do here. The homicide and robbery squad are deep in this. You know, sources tell us they've got a lot of manpower, police power on board here. But there's a lot to find out. And the prosecutors are also trying to find it out, too.
It was interesting when the D.A. filed their complaint earlier this week, it was literally three pages, one for each count, for -- one for Michele, one for Rob Reiner, and then the signatures and what have you that were required by law to be there.
This is an ongoing investigation, and I think there's still a lot to be discovered here about how this happened. And hopefully, at some point, about why this happened.
SANDOVAL: An investigation that's just a week old.
Let's close on some of the tributes, Dominic, in the last seven days. I remember being on air just hours after their bodies were found. And immediately, you began to see online an outpouring of support, all the way to former presidents.
What are some of those tributes that really stand out to you the last couple of days, that highlight the legacy of Rob Reiner?
PATTON: Well, I think -- I think, obviously, the tribute from former President Obama and Michelle -- and from former first lady Michelle Obama. Larry David, Billy Crystal, they put out a statement together and with various others. Jamie Lee Curtis put out a very, very moving statement.
Meg Ryan, one of the stars of "When Harry Met Sally," put out a very, very moving statement.
But I think, actually, for me personally, the statement that really resonated with me had to be -- in the complete opposite of what President Trump said, which was just asinine and cruel, when he said that Rob Reiner was bad for America, which is absurd -- was former first lady Michelle Obama, who talked about how she and the former president were actually supposed to have dinner with Rob and Michele Reiner that night, which is partially why the massage therapist who alerted the family to the fact that that the Reiners didn't answer their security gate at their Brentwood home, was there for, you know, they were getting ready for that night.
And she just talked about these friends of theirs. And Michelle Obama talked about the Reiners being their friends. And of course, they were very politically active. They put their money where their mouth is, so to speak.
And the loss of just -- I was supposed to be with these people. I mean, that to me, resonated more than many others because it was so, so close to the bone.
[00:50:09]
And that's, I think, what a lot of people are feeling. This is a community that's pretty tight-knit. There's a lot of cliches about Hollywood. Some of them are true; some of them are just cliches; and some of them are so untrue.
But I think that there is a lot of people who knew the Reiners. They were people who were out and about. They were people who were connected to the community.
I mean, Rob Reiner and Michele Reiner made a documentary just last year called "God and Country" about white supremacy that was really right on the money.
So, I think for a lot of people, there's this sense of how did this happen? How did this happen to these people? Any tragedy like this, to anyone famous or not famous, is horrible.
But to someone who had such a high profile, who made some of the greatest films of our time, and just had such a loss. And then the specifics of it, with it allegedly being their child, it hurts. It hurts everyone.
SANDOVAL: I spent the last couple of days watching "All in the Family" reruns, and the lessons that his character, Mike "Meathead" Stivic. It's striking to see how relevant some of those messages of tolerance from his character are today, decades later.
Dominic Patton, thank you so much for -- for your reporting and your analysis.
PATTON: Thank you.
SANDOVAL: And you can get more on the life and legacy of Rob Reiner on the CNN app. There's an episode of THE WHOLE STORY WITH ANDERSON COOPER dedicated to the legendary filmmaker.
And in the CNN archives, there's a wide-ranging interview with Reiner from LARRY KING LIVE.
Still ahead here on CNN NEWSROOM, the surprising environmental -- environmental impact Russia's war on Ukraine is having on Finland.
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SANDOVAL: Reindeer are dying in Finland, and many people there are blaming Russian President Vladimir Putin. CNN's Isobel Yeung reports on an unexpected consequence of the ongoing war.
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ISOBEL YEUNG, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Russia's war in Ukraine is having far-reaching and surprising impacts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right there!
YEUNG (voice-over): Even hundreds of miles away here in Finland.
Every year, hundreds of thousands of tourists from all over the world flock here to the arctic circle.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a feeling that you came to see Santa.
YEUNG (voice-over): Finnish legend has it that this is the home --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Santa!
YEUNG (voice-over): -- of Santa Claus.
The iconic reindeer are at the heart of Finland's culture and economy. But Finland's reindeer are in trouble. Thousands are showing up dead, and you might be surprised to know who people here blame Russian president Vladimir Putin. Russia's border with Finland stretches over 800 miles, the longest of any NATO country.
Juha Kujala lives just a few miles away. His family have been wrangling reindeer for over 400 years. He now sells reindeer everything: from reindeer yoga --
JUHA KUJALA, REINDEER HERDER: Think like a reindeer.
YEUNG (voice-over): -- to sleigh rides.
YEUNG: Oh, poor reindeer. What is it that's killing the reindeer?
KUJALA: Wolf is the worst. And they just kill, kill, kill, kill. It's awful. This area. Wolves, most of them come from the East. The Russian side.
YEUNG: How do you know that?
KUJALA: You see the tracks. They come from the Russian side.
YEUNG: Why do you think there are more Russian wolves?
KUJALA: That's the Putin who changed the world.
YEUNG: Putin?
KUJALA: Yes. The soldiers and the young hunters, they hunt the wolves, but now they're hunting people in Ukraine. There's nobody anymore that are left who's hunting wolves.
[00:55:07]
YEUNG: So, do you blame Vladimir Putin for these dead reindeer?
YEUNG (voice-over): Who could I blame? I could blame the whole world. Why this should happen? It's getting worse after the Ukraine war.
YEUNG (voice-over): In an effort to control the thriving wolf population, Russian men have long been paid bounties by the state for every wolf they hunt.
But experts who track the Russian military tell us that recruitment drives into the war in Ukraine have been intense, leaving fewer people to hunt the wolves.
Now, reports in Russian media say wolves are increasingly entering villages and towns, and it seems they're crossing the border.
Extensive wolf DNA testing supports that theory. In Finland, there's been a dramatic rise in wolves, which are killing reindeer in record numbers.
Sightings like these are increasingly common all along Eastern Finland. That's something that will be difficult to stop, as tensions along this over 800-mile border are at their highest point in decades.
YEUNG: So, right now we are with some Finnish conscripts in the northernmost part of the European Union.
YEUNG (voice-over): Finland has increased defense spending and is carrying out large-scale military training.
YEUNG: Finland seems like a very optimistic but also very prepared country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's smart to prepare.
YEUNG (voice-over): As Finland preps for the worst, Kujala is hoping for the best.
KUJALA: Hopefully. Mr. Trump, if you hear me, do everything, try to stop this war. If we cannot fix this wolves situation quickly, some part of the area going to be without reindeer.
YEUNG: And what would that mean to you?
KUJALA: Like somebody, somebody took my life away.
YEUNG (voice-over): Isobel Yeung, CNN, in Northern Finland.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANDOVAL: Massive snow sculptures, they are taking shape in Northwestern China. And this as crews put the finishing touches on their annual winter expo.
One of the main attractions, a nearly 24-meter-tall snowman. It's about the height of an eight-story building. His name is Mr. Snowman, and it's made of about 5,000 cubic meters of snow, and that's about enough to bury a football field a meter deep.
And that's just one of several snowy attractions there.
With that, we want to thank you so much for joining us. I'm Polo Sandoval in New York. I'll be right back with you with more CNN NEWSROOM after a quick break.
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