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Venezuela's Maduro Held at Brooklyn Detention Center; Venezuelans Abroad and Across U.S. Celebrate Maduro's Capture; Trump Says, U.S. Will Run Venezuela After Capturing Maduro. Aired 3-4a ET

Aired January 04, 2026 - 03:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[03:00:00]

ISA SOARES, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Isa Soares in London and very good morning.

Let's get straight to our breaking news this hour. Ousted Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro and his wife are now in U.S. custody, and he arrived at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn on Saturday night. You can see this, he's set a face drug and weapons charges in New York in the coming days.

Maduro and his wife were captured during a large scale U.S. military operation early on Saturday morning. U.S. President Donald Trump told reporters that the military could have killed Maduro. This is what he said. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: He was trying to get into a safe place. You know, the safe place is all steel, and he wasn't able to make it to the door because our guys were so fast, they went through the opposition so fast.

There was a lot of gunfire. You saw some of it today. But he was trying to get to a safe place, which wasn't safe because we would've had the door blown up and about 47 -- I think 47 seconds, they say on average. Regardless of how thick the seal was, it was a very thick door, it was a very heavy door, but he was unable to get to that door. He made it to the door. He was unable to close it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Venezuela Vice President Delcy Rodriguez, is now being declared the acting president, but President Trump says U.S. will run Venezuela and take control of its massive oil reserves.

Our Evan Paris filed this report from outside the detention center where Maduro is being held in New York.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Nicolas Maduro and his wife, Celia, are now in the Metropolitan Detention Center here in Brooklyn, capping an extraordinary 20 hours or so after they were snatched from their bedroom in Caracas. They were transported to a U.S. military ship off the coast of Venezuela, the Iwo Jima, and then to Guantanamo Bay where they were put on a plane to New York.

Now, that began the process while they were under arrest to face four sets of charges from the Justice Department. Those include narco- terrorism and cocaine importation conspiracy. A number of other Venezuelan officials are also named in this indictment that was unsealed by the Justice Department earlier on Saturday.

Now, this begins an extraordinary process for the U.S. government. They have the former Venezuelan leader here now in Brooklyn, and it'll probably be a few months of court battles over the legitimacy of these charges.

Now, earlier today, there were hundreds of people from the Venezuelan community who turned up outside the Metropolitan Detention Center to cheer on the arrest of the former Venezuelan leader. Even late into the evening, there were several dozen that remained outside the facility. Depending on where Maduro is being held, he might actually be able to hear some of those cheers.

Now, we expect that Maduro will next appear in public, in federal court in Manhattan to face these charges as soon as Monday.

Evan Perez, Brooklyn, New York.

SOARES: CNN Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst John Miller walks us through what Madurp, as well as his wife, could expect during their first couple of days in U.S. detention and what the legal process could look like for the former president and first lady of Venezuela.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: He will be held in one of the men's sections. His wife will be held in one of the women's sections. And they will likely be held in isolation for that first day. These are high-profile prisoners. They are high- security prisoners. So, they will likely be held by themselves alone in a cell without a cellmate, probably under watch of the Bureau of Prisons constantly.

At the arraignment, their lawyers will have the chance to discuss with the judge or the magistrate what their conditions will be for being held. Bail is very unlikely to be an issue here in that there is no judge in the Southern District who's going to grant bail to someone who's charged with being behind this many resources or this high-risk a defendant or for that matter, his wife. But they may argue that they want him in general population and then he may be mixing with the likes of P. Diddy and Luigi Mangione.

[03:05:06]

But at least for the first day, it is entirely probable that they will be by themselves, but separate.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SOARES: Well, as we mentioned, Vice President Delcy Rodriguez has now been declared Venezuela's acting president. Here's what President Trump had to say about the U.S. role in Venezuela's transition of power.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We're going to run the country until such time as we can do a safe, proper, and judicious transition.

We are there now, but we're going to stay until such time as the proper transition can take place. So, we are going to stay until such time as we're going to run it essentially until such time as a proper transition can take place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Well, Mr. Trump has ruled out Venezuelan opposition leader and this year is Noble Peace Prize winner, Maria Corina Machado as having a role in the post-Maduro government,

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think it would be very tough for her to be the leader. She doesn't have the support within or the respect within the country. She's a very nice woman, but she doesn't have the respect to --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Let's get more on all of this. Fred Pleitgen joins me now. And, Fred, we'll talk about Maria Corina Machado in just a moment, because that took many people by surprise, of course. Let me start with what we heard from the U.S. president in that lengthy press conference. And some of the statements were quite striking from the U.S., first saying that he will run the country, will run it until a safe, proper, and judicious transition. What does that actually mean, we will run it? I mean, are they running the judiciary? Are they running the armed forces? Do we know?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Does it mean boots on the ground?

SOARES: Yes.

PLEITGEN: Does it mean American personnel on the ground? Does it mean administrative personnel on the ground? There really is no clue at this point in time what exactly the president meant.

And there's certainly several things to unpack there. I think, first of all, from the president's statements, he said safe, proper, and judicious. What he didn't say was democratic.

SOARES: Correct.

PLEITGEN: He didn't say that there was going to be elections. Of course, there are some who say that Corina Machado was elected president, that the election was essentially stolen from her, and he's giving her the cold shoulder.

It's been quite interesting. One of the things that I've been tracking overnight was there was an interview with Pete Hegseth, the secretary of defense, with CBS, where he was asked, what exactly does that mean you guys are going to be running the country, and he really wouldn't give a direct answer to that. He said, look, the president has options. The president is flipping the switch. The president has several things at his disposal. They didn't say whether or not there was --

SOARES: No details.

PLEITGEN: No details, also whether or not there was going to be a large American force on the ground, whether or not any other American personnel would be on the ground, who would obviously have to be secured as well.

And what we've been seeing since Maduro was ousted or taken from power is that his power center still does seem to have control on the ground. We've seen those chavistas on the ground with weapons controlling people in the streets of Caracas.

SOARES: Yes.

PLEITGEN: We have seen the defense minister in the streets of Caracas. So, clearly, the power center that was there before is still there and is still essentially running the country. And if we look at some of the other things that President Trump said, for instance, about Delcy Rodriguez, who is now in power, he has said that they're in contact with her already as well.

So, it's unclear what they meant. What he does seem to mean though is that, in some way, shape or form, and this is something that President Trump said, they are going to want to control the oil industry. They are going to -- they're willing to put troops on the ground to secure.

SOARES: And Delcy is a person for it because she is seen in the eyes of the United States more moderate. Of course, she is a chavista and a very strong ally of course, of Madora, but she's also oil minister. Yes, so she's the one that always is the one that is seeing minister of petroleum since 2024. She is the one that often sees a lot of international faces, so the face of Venezuela. So, she will know exactly how to handle in many ways, probably not just Secretary Rubio, but also President Trump.

I thought it was interesting what you said, there was no democratic, by not calling for democracy. In fact, the word democracy did not appear once in President Trump's speech yesterday statement to the press.

So, the question then goes, if we look at the current structure that we have, we've got Delcy Rodriguez as vice president, we have Padrino who's a defense minister, and we have Diosdado Cabello, the interior minister. Those two guys are like the henchmen of Nicolas Maduro. They always work behind the shadows. They've got their hands -- they're so bloody, their hands.

How can the United States -- I mean, first of all, does the United States believe, you think, they've got control over them and do you think they will act? Because yesterday, you heard Delcy Rodriguez saying, we are not going to be a colony. We are not going to be a colony. Is this just lip service?

PLEITGEN: I think that was one of the most interesting statements that we heard. On the one hand, we had President Trump at his press conference saying, look, Marco Rubio, the secretary of state, has already been in touch with Delcy Rodriguez, she's going to be accommodating. And then you had her come out and said, we're not going to be a colony. We demand that Nicolas Maduro be returned. He's still a legitimate president of Venezuela. Those were all very interesting statements.

[03:10:00]

Now, is that just lip service from her? And on the sidelines that she's saying, look, we are going to work with the United States, especially when it comes to the oil.

But I think what you're saying about the defense minister and the interior minister, one of the other things that the interior minister apparently is in one of the indictments that Maduro is in as well for drug trafficking.

SOARES: Yes.

PLEITGEN: And on the face of it, and this was the original reason why President Trump said he was putting all this pressure on the Maduro regime and on Venezuela was drug trafficking, bombing those drug boats bombing targets on land. And now all of a sudden it's unclear whether or not the U.S. is going to leave these people in power and to run the place.

And, of course, any sort of transition to a different system in Venezuela most probably could not happen with the current leadership in power.

SOARES: Look, we mentioned just before we came to Maria Corina Machado. To many people, she's been completely, you know, forgotten about by this administration, or at least that seems to be the case so far.

I spoke to her last year. Have a listen to what she said to me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: We've been here before. I mean, you think this time will be different. What are you hearing from those around Maduro, around that power structure?

MARIA CORINA MACHADO, VENEZUELAN OPPOSITION LEADER: I believe this is a unique moment for many reasons. First of all, it's not the same regime. The regime is, as I say, weaker. It is evident that there have been many defections. We wouldn't have been able to collect over 85 percent of the tally sheets that proved our victory if it wasn't for the cooperation of the military that disobeyed the orders not to give them to us.

So, this is a very different regime and also, and most importantly, our country, our society, I mean, if we had a minimum competitive conditions, we would've won by a 90-10 margin. So, this is huge what is happening. I mean, Venezuela coming together, understanding that this is a unique opportunity and that we're not going to let it go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: I mean, Nobel Peace Prize winner dedicated a Nobel Peace Prize to President Trump, President Trump saying yesterday, she's a very nice woman, but lacks the support and respect in the country. It will be very difficult for her to run it. Help us make sense of this phrase.

SOARES: Well, I think there's probably two things at play there. On the one hand, she certainly appears to have the political support in the country. And she's probably right that if there was a free and fair election, we're all competitive things, we're on the same level, she'd probably wouldn't buy a landslide. But then, of course, the United States probably right now is also looking at what would it take to dismantle the current power structure, what would that mean for Venezuela, also what would that mean in terms of some of the armed groups that are on the ground in Venezuela as well.

Because we have to keep in mind that especially over the past couple of months, as the pressure from the United States has been mounting, Maduro has been relying more and more, for instance, on the chavistas, on the ground to keep him in power. And even now we're hearing from people on the ground that people are not going out, even those who do want to celebrate all of this because they are scared that the current power structure is still in place.

So, is the Trump administration shying away from possible nation building, one of those key words that obviously we've had in the past to try and get this done as fast as possible? I think there's also domestic concerns in the United States as well, because one thing that we have to keep in mind is that there are also a lot of conservative Trump supporters who feel that this has gone too far, who are still very much hurt and paid by what happened in Iraq and the aftermath of that and are saying, look, we don't really need any foreign adventures.

SOARES: Iraq and Afghanistan, really all cautionary tales. Thank you very much, Fred Pleitgen, staying and talk to Fred the next hour or so.

And still to come right here on the show, Venezuelans are reacting to the capture of their president, the country's president, how they feel about the U.S. running their country, bringing you their insight, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [03:15:00]

SOARES: Venezuelans here in their capital that is Caracas protesting the U.S. capture of their leader, Nicolas Maduro. Some of them are reacting to President Trump's statement that the U.S. would be running Venezuela.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does he mean by that? Well, I don't know what he means. What kind of control will he have? How will he have control? Where are the people who are going to control that? I think we're all in the same position, waiting to find out what the truth is.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Honestly, no. Honestly, no. I don't know what power he has to take control of Venezuela, of Venezuelans, but we're waiting to see what's going to happen regarding that. But I don't agree with another president, someone from outside of Venezuela, taking control of us Venezuelans

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Elsewhere, there was celebration over President Maduro's capture. You see there in Madrid. We'll have more on how the Venezuelan diaspora is reacting a little later in the program this hour.

While Donald Trump is putting his Colombian counterpart or notice, crudely telling him to watch his backside, Trump noted that Colombian produces cocaine and sends it to the U.S., apparently implying Colombia could be next. The president spoke after President Gustavo Petro said he was not concerned about possible fallout from Maduro's capture.

Well, I interviewed the Colombian leader a few weeks ago about what Trump really wants in Venezuela, and as you're about to see, he didn't miss his words.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: You know President Trump is transactional. You're saying he is going after Venezuela's oil. If that is the case, do you think the United States will attack, will strike inside of Venezuela?

GUSTAVO PETRO, COLOMBIAN PRESIDENT: Oh, they're going to get the oil for next to nothing, because that's what the anecdotal evidence suggests. Trump isn't negotiating with Maduro on drug issues because he's not a fool. You only have to look at the figures. Only about 4 percent of Colombia's drug production, cocaine production, because we don't produce much else, goes through Venezuela.

Just the margin, yes, most of it is going out through the Pacific Ocean, most of it. So, negotiations over oil, I think that's Trump's logic. He's not thinking about the democratization of Venezuela, let alone drug trafficking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: President Petro speaking to me in November.

Well, my next guest is an American citizen who was held hostage by Nicolas Maduro for five years. His book, 1,775 Days in Captivity, describes what he went through during that time.

[03:20:03]

Jorge Toledo was a member of the so-called CITGO 6 petroleum executives from the U.S. considered wrongfully detained. He joins me now live from Austin, in Texas. Jorge, wonderful to see you again, it's been a while since you and I spoke.

You were released, of course, from captivity. You were there for many, many days that we just told, 1,775 days, to be exact. Can I just first probably get your reaction to those images of seeing Maduro captured and in handcuffs in the U.S.? What does this mean to you, Jorge?

JORGE TOLEDO, FORMER AMERICAN HOSTAGE OF MADURO FOR FIVE YEARS: Well, it's a couple of things came into my mind. The first one is, you know, the cause and effect. So, this individual caused a lot of suffering to an entire country and citizens from other places, like myself. But in the other side, I recall my first day in prison and how I felt. And I thought, you know, now you are on the other side of the fence, so now you know how it feels to be, you know, in that situation. So -- but in summary is, for me, it's cause and effect.

SOARES: And, Jorge, viewers might not know this, you were held in the notorious Helicoide Prison. You faced physical, you faced psychological torture. This is something you write about in your book. Speak first of all to what you went through, because this tells us what the mad regime is really capable of, right? I know the regime has committed many atrocities, even facing accusations of crime against humanity. Speak to what you went through in some of your colleagues of the CITGO 6.

TOLEDO: Well, as you said and as I wrote I documented in my book, I went through a physical and psychological torture in -- not only at Helicoide, but also in ADGCIM, which is the maximum security military prison that I spent 50 percent of my time. I -- honestly, I never thought that that kind of evil exists in humankind.

Something that I noticed also was the influence of Cubans, Iranians and their methodologies of torture. This is something that was openly discussed within the prison, not only within the prisoners, also the guards mentioned this.

So, it's -- I am very concerned, by the way, for the whereabouts of the political prisoners, people that I met in prison, that are still in prison in Venezuela because of the risk of retaliation. And so their life is in jeopardy.

SOARES: Yes. The huge concern and so many questions right now about what this current structure that is in place in Venezuela, because while Maduro, Jorge, is out, those who operate in the shadows, and you know them well, Diosdado Cabella, Vladimir Padrino, the interior and defense minister, they're still in power. Do you believe that this is the end of chavismo, because President Trump says they're going to run the country? Do you believe that Delcy Rodriguez, her brother and the others have handed over the controls, you think, to President Trump?

TOLEDO: Well, I think that the -- if they want to implement democracy in the country, they need to, you know, remove not only Maduro, also his entourage. So, because -- we are not talking about a government or ideology, we are talking about a bunch of criminals adopting an entire country.

So, it's -- Maduro is the head, but there's an architecture that was built during the past more than 26 or 30 years ago. So, it's complex. But I'm sure that what I have my lecture on President Trump's words is he discloses very few information. But it's obvious that they have a plan on what is next and they're executing that plan.

SOARES: Well, let's hope they do, but you're right about the structure. It's a whole criminal enterprise, that's for sure.

And while I have you here, because we are running out of time, Jorge, you were a former CITGO petroleum executive.

[03:25:01]

When the president -- and we heard them say this yesterday, when the president says, Jorge, that the U.S. will take control of Venezuela's oil reserves, what do you make that to mean? I mean, there are plenty of questions, first of all, and we won't get into this with you, it's not area of expertise about the legality of this, but from an industry perspective, you know, speak to how challenging that might be, because on the Maduro and Chavez, the whole infrastructure has been completely mismanaged and ruined.

TOLEDO: Well, it's -- again, you know, there's a very little information on a huge and complex issue. So, you have inactive oil wells that need to be restarted. Sometimes to restart an oil well is more expensive than, you know, drill a new one. So, this takes time. The value chain of the oil business is extensive, so you have oil production, you also have the refineries.

So -- but I think the point is that -- so that the -- the Venezuelan crude oil hasn't been present in the United States since, you know, before I was detained in Venezuela. So, the other barrels replaced the Venezuelan barrels in the Gulf Coast. The Venezuelan barrels were going to -- mainly to China, to Pacific at very high discounts.

So, I think what the short-term strategy from the U.S. government would be, you know, blocking that oil flow that goes to China. So, that is, I think, a more geopolitical perspective on the value chain of the oil business.

SOARES: Jorge, I really appreciate you being with us, really great to see you doing so well. Do stay in touch. Jorge Toledo there for us, and thank you for staying up so late, Jorge, I appreciate it, live from Austin there, in Texas. TOLEDO: My pleasure. My pleasure.

SOARES: Thank you.

And still to come, the latest of course on our breaking news, deposed Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro now in U.S. custody and facing drug charges. We have more after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[03:30:00]

SOARES: Welcome back. I'm Isa Soares in London.

Let take a look at today's top stories for you. Ousted Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro and his wife are now in U.S. custody. They were captured during a large scale U.S. military operation early Saturday and are facing drug trafficking charges. U.S. President Donald Trump says U.S. will run Venezuela and take control of its massive oil reserves.

President Trump announced Saturday that the U.S. is going to run Venezuela indefinitely after the capture of its longtime president, Nicolas Maduro. According to Trump, his administration has been in contact with the interim president, Delcy Rodriguez. Rodriguez served as Venezuela's vice president until Maduro's capture.

Well, in the wake of Saturday's U.S. military operation, Congressional leaders are calling for an immediate briefing. A House Armed Services Committee aide tells CNN the panel is in the process of planning a briefing next week. Meanwhile, some senators are accusing the Trump administration of lying to Congress of officials claim regime change wasn't the goal.

Our Kevin Liptak has more from West Palm Beach in Florida for you.

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: President Trump's order for U.S. forces to capture Nicolas Maduro was the culmination of a months-long pressure campaign on Venezuela and is really one of the most consequential moments of either of his two presidencies.

Now, when we were over at Mar-a-Lago on Saturday for the president's press conference, it was striking how much detail was revealed about what went into the planning for this operation, you know, months and months of CIA work on the ground in Caracas to track Maduro. Locations, to track his rhythms, to ensure that this raid went off seamlessly, sort of a minute by minute counting of the raid as it was happening on the ground there in Venezuela, and then a description of how the forces found Maduro in his home and captured him as he was fleeing to his safe room, so a lot of details there.

What we did not hear much from the president on is what he envisions happening next when he says that the U.S. will, quote, run Venezuela going forward. The president offering not a lot of detail about what precisely he has in mind for what amounts to a temporary protectorate in a country of 30 million people that's one and a half this times the size of Texas and where the U.S. has no official presence. The U.S. hasn't had an open embassy in Venezuela since 2019.

The president was pressed again and again by reporters about what exactly he was envisioning happening on the grounds there. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Well, you know, they always say boots on the ground. So, we're not afraid of boots on the ground if we have to have. We had boots on the ground last night at a very high level actually. We're not afraid of it. We don't mind saying it.

REPORTER: Can you explain the exact mechanism by which you're going to run the country? Are you going to designate a U.S. official coordinator?

TRUMP: Yes. It's all being done right now. We're designating people. We're talking to people. We're designating various people.

It's largely going to be for a period of time. The people that are standing right behind me, we're going to be running it. We're going to be bringing it back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIPTAK: Now, I also pressed the president about what he thinks about a prolonged American military presence on the ground in Venezuela, and he didn't answer that explicitly. He said he wasn't afraid of boots on the ground. But when I asked whether that meant sort of a prolonged presence for U.S. forces, he pivoted almost immediately to discussing Venezuela's oil. You know, that has been a preoccupation of the president's for quite some time, Venezuela, of course, sitting on the world's largest proven oil reserves.

And so I think taken all together, certainly a dramatic day, a successful raid militarily by the U.S., but one that raises a whole host of questions that the president didn't necessarily have answers for, at least on Saturday.

Kevin Liptak, CNN, West Palm Beach, Florida.

SOARES: Well, some U.S. lawmakers are demanding to know why they were notified prior to the Maduro operation.

[03:35:003]

Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Donald Trump weighed in, the president blaming Congress for being untrustworthy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: It's just not the kind of mission that you can pre-notify because it endangers the mission.

REPORTER: Mr. President (INAUDIBLE) was the only people who watched this live? TRUMP: Congress has a tendency to leak. This would not be good. If they leaked general, I think it would've been maybe a very different result.

But I have to say they knew we were coming at some point. You know, a lot of ships out there, they sort of knew.

Congress will leak and we don't want a leak.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Well, earlier, CNN's Erica Hill asked some Democratic Congressman Gil Cisneros about the president's allegation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. GIL CISNEROS (D-CA): Congress is not the problem. The House Armed Services' problem is not the problem with leaks. Their own secretary of defense in the Trump administration is the one who has leaked information out to the public, who was told about operations that had happened in the past. That's where the leaks come from.

They have a responsibility to notify Congress what was going to happen, and pretty much the secretary of state lied to the House of Representatives when he came and told us that they would not seek military action without the approval of Congress, and that's exactly what they did.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: And so what is the follow-on for that from your vantage point?

CISNEROS: Well, they need to come to us. They need to tell us what the plans are. You know, I'm very disturbed by the president's press conference where he did say and the fact that he is willing to put boots on the ground. He doesn't have the authorization from Congress to do that. He has not come to us to talk about his plan. He has said that now he is going to be running, you know, Venezuela and basically tried to give -- gave Marco Rubio another job there. He is already secretary of state. He is already the national security adviser. And I guess he's going to be running the puppet regime that Donald Trump wants to put in place in Venezuela.

And so they need to come to Congress and explain what their intentions are, what their plan is and really explain, you know, how are they going to do this.

HILL: You say you want them to come to Congress, you want them to brief Congress. I mean, what is your level of confidence that that is going to happen?

CISNEROS: Oh, it's not. I don't have any level of confidence that it's going to happen. I think they will come in here. They will just tell us things that basically are already out there in the press information they've already kind of put out there. You know, they're going to try and spin this as it was a, you know, bringing somebody to justice, bringing them through the courts. But this is really about -- at the heart of it, it is about regime change. It is about Donald Trump getting his hands on oil, the Venezuelan oil, and him, you know, basically it's my opinion, he wants to bring this oil into the United States so he can flood the market and bring down the price of gas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SOARES: Well, joining me now from Oxfordshire is Vanessa Neumann, a Venezuelan American diplomat, businesswoman, author and political theorist. Vanessa, great to see you again. It's been a while since you and I have spoken.

I know it's been a moment of celebration for many Venezuelans in and outside of the country, and also moment of deep anxiety from the Venezuelans I've been speaking to inside the country. Just give us a sense of what you are feeling first and what the mood is from what you gather inside the country.

VANESSA NEUMANN, VENEZUELAN AMERICAN DIPLOMAT: Indeed. And it's such a pleasure to be with you again. I've missed you. So, what the (INAUDIBLE) in Venezuela is one of concern right now. They're in confusion more than anything. So, there are two -- there are several things. One, everybody is delighted by the -- most people are delighted by the photograph of Maduro, you know, handcuffed and with the blindfolds and the ear muffs on the Iwo Jima heading back to the United States.

It reminded me of the capture of Abimael Guzman, who led the Shining Path, was put in a cage. It made him human. It took away the terror and all this fear that Venezuelans have had with these 18,000 political prisoners and extrajudicial killings and tortures. He seemed like a superhuman who could never be captured. And now we know he is human, he can be captured, people within the Maduro enclave can be captured, and we can one day have democracy again. So, that's hope. That's one sentiment.

On the other sentiment, there is great concern about the fact that Delcy Rodriguez, who is not a nice woman, but is very, very intelligent, she's multilingual, fluent in English and French, and the chief negotiator, I have seen it firsthand. I haven't been fed this by the U.S. government or the Venezuelan opposition.

[03:40:01]

I have been present during phone calls where people were negotiating with her to give Maduro money or to keep Maduro in power. So, I am aware of that. And she will give a little dance to the Trump team who think that she will be their puppet, but she's nobody's puppet.

However, that's one thing. I think they will get tired of being danced around by her, Rubio and Hegseth. And on the other hand, she faces a huge challenge because she's not on military. Diosdado Cabello and Padrino Lopez, who's the two military -- one is the head of the military and the other was -- is a military commander who's head of the party. They're very, very bad guys. And they will want to command whatever's left of military morale. They will want to come in whatever's left of military morale to sideline her. So, she may well be stabbed in the back by her own party.

SOARES: So many good points that you made.

NEUMANN: Then we're nowhere. Then we just have Diosdado Cabello and Padrino Lopez, who were really not much better than Maduro.

SOARES: Yes. Look, so many good points you made. Let me start, first of all, we'll talk about the Diosdado, the interior defense minister in just a moment, but let me get your thoughts first off on Delcy Rodriguez. She's now the president, well, V.P. obviously, but she's been -- and you've seen the Supreme Court, she's now been handed over the reins, of course, with the country. We've had President Trump saying that she will do what we ask of her, almost painting a picture, Vanessa, that she -- of her being slightly more pragmatic. What is your sense? Because what I heard from you yesterday is, you know, we will never be a colony, we want Maduro back. Is this just lip service or do you think that Chavismo is not dead?

NEUMANN: I think Chavismo is not dead. I think there are two different things, right? So, there are -- Chavismo, there are a few hardcore ideologues who've always been there, always will be there, right, who really believe in Chavismo. And don't forget this is a country like Cuba. I know you know this extremely well, where there's a whole lot of propaganda. People within Venezuela, unless you have a smartphone, really don't have a lot of access to reality. They get fed (INAUDIBLE).

Second of all, I think she -- you know, they have to keep up this line for their own survival. On the other hand, there is the aspect of their own survival, right? They are all facing drug charges. Delcy Rodriguez has done -- yes, I think it was -- was it The New York Times -- has done a P.R. job, yes, where she said Delcy the Moderate, and everybody in Venezuela was like, Delcy's not a moderate. She has been -- remember what I said at the beginning, she's a negotiator and a P.R. person and she's been handling her own P.R. clearly for her to assume this position for months and positions herself as a moderate.

She can't be too much of a moderate. It's the typical thing we've seen, you and I have seen in transitions in other countries. If she tries to be a moderate and go on bend the knee to the Trump team, her own team will stab her in the back. And then we'll have to have a second wave of attacks on Venezuela, or the Trump team will stage a second wave, as they discussed last night.

She's not going to go on bend the knee. They will not make Venezuela a colony. And I think that this is going to be some very complicated days. Venezuelans cannot go out into the street to celebrate because, A, they're confused. They didn't know what comes next. And, B, anybody who says, yay, they got Maduro, will be immediately captured in tortured.

SOARES: Vanessa, so good to have you on the show. Thank you so much. Hopefully, we'll stay in touch and hopefully there's some good news from Venezuelan -- for Venezuelans. Thank you. Thanks, Vanessa.

NEUMANN: Thanks again. See you soon. SOARES: Take care.

Well, the White House says the action in Venezuela is perfectly legal, even though it targeted a sitting president. Still ahead, will the Trump administration use this as a legal cover to go after President Maduro? That's next

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[03:45:00]

SOARES: Sources tell CNN the White House is taking a page from U.S. history to justify their actions in Venezuela. Trump administration officials are citing in 1989 legal opinion that laid the groundwork for the U.S. invasion of Panama as justification for the operation in Venezuela.

The opinion stated the president could deploy the FBI to investigate and arrest individuals for violating U.S. law, quote, even if those actions contravene international law. That opinion was authored by William Barr, who would later serve as attorney general in President Trump's first term.

But sources note a key difference between Panama and Venezuela operations. Panama's then-military dictator, Manuel Noriega, had declared war on the U.S. before the American intervention. President Trump is also leaning heavily on the Monroe Doctrine, the U.S. foreign policy dating back more than two centuries, to justify American intervention in Venezuela. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And the Monroe Doctrine is a big deal, but we've superseded it by a lot, by a real lot. They now call it the Down Road (ph) Doctrine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Well, earlier my colleague, Polo Sandoval, spoke with Alan McPherson, director of Temple University Center for the Study of Force and Diplomacy, on the parallels and differences between U.S. interventions in Venezuela and Panama nearly 40 years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALAN MCPHERSON, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF FORCE AND DIPLOMACY, TEMPLE UNIVERSITY: The parallels mostly are what the Americans hope exist here. They certainly seem to have sort of set up this intervention the way they set up the one in 1989 in that they identified a leader that they wanted out. Both of them were certainly bad people who should not have been leading nations. They realized these people were connected to drugs. They indicted them in U.S. courts. And then they essentially justified military intervention as essentially a law enforcement arrest of one person.

But, of course, the actual goal was not really to reduce drugs coming from those nations. It was to change the regime, in the case of Panama. It restored democracy. In this case, democracy doesn't really seem to be on the minds of Trump or anybody else in the White House. And so that seems to be one of the differences. Of course, there are more important differences. There's plenty of petroleum in Venezuela and so there's a much bigger prize than democracy or than getting one leader out.

[03:50:00]

Venezuela is a much larger country. It's much more difficult to run, as the president says. And so lots of population, lots of land. It's -- probably also the population might be a lot more hostile, so it might be -- it's got an actual military. Panama had a very small sort of like quasi-military that was relatively easy to overwhelm. So, this is going to be a much more difficult mission.

SOARES: And still to come right here on the show, while many in the U.S. and abroad denounce a Trump administration's military action in Venezuela, many members of the Venezuelan diaspora are cheering it. That is ahead.

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SOARES: President Donald Trump says the U.S. will run Venezuelan now that Nicolas Maduro is in U.S. custody. The Venezuelan president and his wife were captured during a large-scale U.S. military operation early on Saturday. Maduro is now in a detention facility in Manhattan facing drugs as well as weapon charges. And a new indictment accuses Maduro of running state-sponsored gangs and facilitating drug trafficking in the country. Mr. Trump says he did not notify members of Congress until after the strike.

While Venezuelans in the United States are not the only ones celebrating the U.S. military action to depose President Nicolas Maduro, many other Venezuelans right or around the world are happy to see him removed from power, as our Rafael Romo now reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Chants, joy and tears at the heart of Madrid.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is excitement, happiness, and hope.

ROMO: Singing, dancing, and holding up their flag in South America.

[03:55:00]

Venezuelans around the world have been celebrating President Nicolas Maduro's capture crowds gather at Doral in Florida, home to one of the largest Venezuelan communities in the U.S. Closer to home in Cucuta, which straddles the border, this man says we are going to be free.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm happy. I don't know about the other people. My mom and my dad are happy too.

ROMO: Nearly 7.9 million Venezuelans have fled Maduro's regime, according to U.N. figures. More than 6 million sought refuge in Latin America, Colombia's home to 2.8 million migrants while Peru has welcomed more than 1.6 million.

In Lima, many of them were up all night trying to reach their relatives.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard around 2:00 A.M. My son and my mother called me. They were crying and confused about what was happening. And all we did was to pray so they will be okay.

ROMO: Hope and joy after years of being abroad, it is a day they won't forget.

Rafael Romo, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SOARES: While U.S. Secretary of Transportation Sean Duffy says flights over the Caribbean airspace have now resumed, and you can see there early he posted on social media the U.S. restrictions expired at 12:00 A.M. Eastern Time. He tells stranded travelers to continue to work with their airlines. Delta and United Airlines say they plan to resume flights in the coming hours.

And this comes after hundreds of flights were canceled, all delayed due to U.S. strikes on Venezuela. JetBlue was the most affected, according to the tracking site, FlightAware. It canceled 209 flights and delayed another 263 by 4:00 P.M. on Saturday. United Airlines is telling impacted passengers they can rebook for free.

I am Isa Soares in London. I will be back with more of CNN's breaking news coverage after this short break. Get yourself coffee. See you in just a moment.

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[04:00:00]