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Trump Calls for Change of Leadership in Iran in New Interview; Trump Wants New Tariffs on Denmark and Other European Countries; Protests in Minneapolis Underway as Tensions Threaten to Boil Over; Charlie Kirk's Alleged Killer Asks Judge to Disqualify Prosecutors; U.S. Set to Commemorate Martin Luther King Jr. Day; Taking Care of Spiritual Health. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired January 17, 2026 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:54]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

All right. New this hour President Trump says it's time for a leadership change in Iran. He made the comments to Politico after Iran's supreme leader called the president a criminal. Trump says he is also putting any U.S. military action against Iran for now on hold.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Did Arab and Israeli officials convince you to not strike Iran?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Nobody convinced me. I convinced myself. You had yesterday scheduled over 800 hangings. They didn't hang anyone. They canceled the hangings. That had a big impact.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: There have been no reports of protests in Iran today, but the internet remains largely blacked out across the country.

CNN's senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman is with us now from across the border in Erbil, Iraq.

So, Ben, you were right at the border earlier. And what are you understanding is or isn't happening?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it does appear at this point that Iran, there are no reports of any major protests around the country. Now, it's significant that yesterday, Reza Pahlavi, the son of the deposed shah of Iran, gave a press conference in Washington and he called upon Iranians beginning today, Saturday, to hold protests against the regime around the country.

Now, whether they were able or willing to do so is not at all clear at this point, given the severity of the crackdown. Perhaps many have decided it simply is not worth the risk to go out in the streets yet again and protest against the regime, which has overseen really the collapse of the Iranian economy over the last few years, partly as a result of decades of U.S. sanctions.

Nonetheless, it doesn't appear that anybody has really responded to that call, although we must stress that given that we're now almost 10 days into the internet and telecommunications blackout, it's very difficult to understand what's going on. And, of course, the Iranian government is not letting international journalists into the country. So it's very hard to understand what is going on.

But fundamentally, Fredricka, the reasons for those protests have not changed an iota. And, of course, many Iranians heard the vow from President Trump that help is on its way. So even though he seems to have backtracked on that vow, everybody is aware that the Abraham Lincoln carrier strike group is on its way to the region, that the United States and some of its allies have deployed additional assets to the region.

And it's expected that that carrier strike group is going to be in place within the next week to 10 days. So there is a lull in the protests. But certainly the rhetoric is not cooling down. And if anything, it's heating up. So we're going to have to see. The White House is saying that all options are on the table when it comes to Iran. So certainly, even though it's relatively quiet as far as we know, I must stress, in Iran it doesn't appear that this drama is in any sense over -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Ben Wedeman, we'll check back with you there on the border with Iraq and Iran.

All right. We're watching large protests take place in Greenland and Denmark today as President Trump escalates his threats to take over the semi-autonomous Danish territory. Trump ramped up the pressure on the Arctic Island today, saying he'll impose new tariffs on Denmark and several other European countries unless a deal is reached to purchase Greenland. The protesters in Greenland telling Trump today that their homeland is not for sale.

[15:05:02]

The same message was heard in protest in several Danish cities earlier today, with thousands taking part. A U.S. delegation of bipartisan U.S. lawmakers is in Copenhagen, meeting with leaders from Denmark and Greenland. And amid the growing tension, several European nations have sent military personnel to Greenland for joint exercises.

CNN's Betsy Klein is joining us right now.

Betsy, good to see you again. What more are you learning about these tariffs and Trump's threats to annex Greenland?

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fredricka, starting in his first term and steadily escalating ever since, President Trump has been emphatic that the U.S. must have control of Greenland for national security purposes to combat rising threats from China, from Russia. This, of course, has spawned major pushback from Greenland, from Denmark, which controls Greenland, as well as top European allies. And that escalated once more today when the president laid out a

tiered tariff threat. And this threatens to potentially rattle markets and really disrupt key trading partner relationships.

I want to read to you, from the president's post to social media. He says, "Starting on February 1st, 2026, all of the above mentioned countries, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, France, Germany, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands and Finland, will be charged a 10 percent tariff on any and all goods sent to the United States of America. On June 1st, 2026 the tariff will be increased to 25 percent. This tariff will be due and payable until such time as a deal is reached for the complete and total purchase of Greenland."

Just under two weeks there until February 1st for those leaders to reach a deal with President Trump. And we are hearing from top European officials expressing very stark concerns about the president's threat here.

I would just remind you that a couple of days ago, Vice President J.D. Vance, along with Secretary Marco Rubio, met with top officials from Greenland, from Denmark. And one of those officials, the Danish foreign minister, said in a statement that this comes as a surprise. He said that they had had productive discussions. We also heard from French President Emmanuel Macron. He said, quote, "Tariff threats are unacceptable and have no place in this context." He warned that Europeans will respond in a coordinated manner.

We heard from the British Prime Minister Keir Starmer, who says that this tariff strategy is, quote, "completely wrong." We also heard from European Commissioner Ursula von der Leyen, who says, "That tariffs would undermine Trans-Atlantic relations and risk a dangerous downward spiral."

Now, as you mentioned, European countries have deployed a military presence to Greenland. They say that that is exactly because President Trump says that this Arctic Island needs more security. They say they are doing what he is asking. And back here at home, as we are seeing those protests play out in Greenland and in Denmark, this is a deeply unpopular policy. 75 percent of Americans in a new CNN poll say that they oppose Trump's efforts to acquire Greenland --Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Betsy Klein, thanks so much.

All right. Right now in Minneapolis, dueling protests are underway as officials brace for violence. Minnesota's governor, Tim Walz, has mobilized the state's National Guard to support the Minnesota State Patrol if needed. That action comes as the Trump administration is turning up the heat on Walz and other top elected officials in the state. Sources tell CNN the Justice Department is investigating Governor Walz and Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey, marking an extraordinary escalation in the fight between the White House and the state's Democrats over the president's aggressive immigration crackdown.

CNN correspondent Julia Vargas Jones is in Minneapolis. Julia, you're still there outside that federal building where, you

know, protesters are facing off with federal authorities that they see coming and going outside that building.

JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They are. We just witnessed an SUV coming out of this building with a phone out filming the protesters. And one of the protesters tried to get that phone out of the agent's hand.

I will say this is what we're seeing time and again, Fred, but it is a provocation. Provocations do happen once in a while. We see that. But those local leaders, both the mayor of Minneapolis, Jacob Frey, as well as Governor Tim Walz, saying, you know, be peaceful today. Be careful, be peaceful. That is the message that we have seen even in this protests. People reminding each other, walking around and saying, this is a peaceful demonstration. Remember to stay peaceful.

Of course, there's frustration within these protesters as well. Like the main reason that people are here is because they have seen their lives be disrupted by the presence of those 2,000 or so agents in Minneapolis.

[15:10:02]

People say that they are afraid for their neighbors, for their fellow Minnesotans, people who they say are part of the fabric of this state, who are now threatened, who are not going to work, who are not showing up to take care of their children, daycares. So that is in part the motivation. And we have spoken to people who have come from different parts of the state and even out of the state to take part in this demonstration.

I will note this has grown much larger over the past just hour or so, and it has been bigger than over the weekdays. Of course, as people have time off work and this holiday weekend they are coming here. The message is quite clear, but it has, I will say, remained quite peaceful.

Now I know that we have some images of downtown Minneapolis that I want to speak to. We did see part of this protest starting in downtown Minneapolis. This was an anti-immigration, anti-Muslim protest called by one of the Jan Sixers in downtown Minneapolis that seems to have already been surrounded by people chanting, immigrants are welcome here. Police presence is pretty heavy in downtown Minneapolis right now.

That's what we're seeing from those live pictures. Police already asking those demonstrators to clear the streets, and we'll keep an eye on that as well as it progresses. But again, Fred, the tensions are running high and it seems that the threshold for anything to happen here is quite, quite low.

WHITFIELD: All right. Julia Vargas Jones in Minneapolis, thank you so much.

All right. Straight ahead. The defense for Charlie Kirk's accused killer say the entire prosecution should be barred from the case. We'll detail that argument. And later surveillance video captures a terrifying armed robbery of a Pokemon shop full of customers in New York City. We'll show you what happened.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:16:39

WHITFIELD: Attorneys for Tyler Robinson, who is accused of shooting and killing Charlie Kirk, want the entire prosecution team disqualified, claiming there's a conflict of interest.

CNN's Nick Watt explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Prosecutors in this case accused the defense of laying an ambush for them, of trying to stall, and of trying to get county prosecutors thrown off this case, trying to get them replaced maybe by a state prosecutor who might be more lenient and who might not seek the death penalty. The county prosecution team right now on this case, they have said they will seek the death penalty against Tyler Robinson, who is yet to enter a plea.

Now, the hearing this Friday was supposed to be about whether those county prosecutors should be thrown off the case. The defense says they should because one of them, a deputy, his daughter, goes to UVU. She was in that crowd of about 3,000 when Charlie Kirk was shot and killed. So the defense says this deputy is clearly going to be emotional. He's clearly compromised. He should be disqualified.

And he was getting texts from his daughter from campus, and he was sharing that with other people in his office. And so the defense says the whole office is compromised. All of them should be thrown out. We didn't even really get to the meat of that argument because there were other things that they -- that really got in the way. One was whether these county prosecutors should even be allowed to argue that they don't have a conflict of interest in court, that that is a conflict of interest in itself.

And they also got waylaid with this issue of whether this trial will be televised. Now, the defense does not want it to be televised. Erica Kirk, Charlie Kirk's widow, does. She said Charlie was killed in public. This should be held in public. And today there was a point where the judge and the prosecutors admonished the cameraman operating the pool camera in court right now for zooming in too much on Tyler Robinson's face and not moving away when Tyler Robinson started speaking to his defense attorneys. They say that a lip reader would then be able to try and figure out what Tyler Robinson was saying, and that is against the court order.

So, so many issues here still to resolve. Right now we're expecting, if all goes according to plan, big if, May 18th, there will be a three-day hearing where prosecutors will lay out their case against Robinson. Key to that, we expect will be alleged DNA on the apparent murder weapon and also an apparent confession Robinson made to his roommate-slash-romantic partner on a Discord server. But this issue of who's going to prosecute still not resolved.

Nick Watt CNN, Provo, Utah.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:24:10]

WHITFIELD: Tension continues to mount in Minneapolis in the aftermath of two shootings involving ICE agents. More protests are taking place in the city today. Meantime, CNN is learning the Justice Department is launching criminal probes into the state's Democratic governor and mayor, accusing them of obstruction of federal law enforcement.

The Twin Cities have been on edge for the past 10 days since an ICE officer shot and killed 37-year-old mom of three Renee Good during a confrontation.

Joining me now to talk more about all of this and these developments is Julian Zelizer. He is a historian and professor at Princeton University and the author of the Substack, "The Long View."

Julian, great to see you.

JULIAN ZELIZER, HISTORIAN AND PROFESSOR, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: Nice to be back.

WHITFIELD: So you wrote a piece on your Substack this week called "From Rodney King to Renee Nicole Good: The Battle to Control Reality."

[15:25:03]

Talk to us about these parallels that you see between these two cases.

ZELIZER: Well, I was thinking back to the video in 1991 of what happened to Rodney King when he was assaulted by police at an arrest. And that video was one of the first viral videos, and it caused quite a firestorm. And there was a promise at the time that now that we could have video of these encounters, when they went wrong, when there was an abuse of power, it would change the way this all worked.

And it struck me many, many decades later that there's a lot of limits to what video can actually do in our current day and age.

WHITFIELD: And why do we think that is? I mean, it was 1991, Rodney King, you know, being beaten for all to see. The world saw it. And universally people were in sync on what they saw, the horror that they saw. And there are multiple videos of the ICE agent involved shooting of Renee Good and accounts are being disputed.

Why is it? What has happened in our culture that people are seeing these things so differently or treating them differently?

ZELIZER: Part of it is technology. And technology has changed and I think made it easier to manipulate video. And that makes people more distrustful. The media environment has changed and there's a lot more either partisan sources of news or unfiltered information through social media. So when people see something, they don't necessarily believe it even if the images are quite clear.

And finally, now we're seeing, as we've seen in the last few days, ongoing political attacks and political narratives being spun through the administration, basically defining what people should be seeing before there's an investigation. And those narratives have a lot of power. So there's also this concerted political effort to shape what you think you're seeing and to define what's right in front of your eyes.

WHITFIELD: And so I wonder, you know, with the technology that you mentioned of, there was an expectation that there -- it would bring more accountability. But now as you just kind of described, there seems to be even more distrust. And if people aren't even sure, you know, who they should believe and what they should believe, what does that tell us about what potentially is next or on the horizon?

ZELIZER: It's a very fragile moment. In a democracy, you need a solid public commons. You could fight over issues, you can debate issues, but it's important to have an area where there are shared facts to debate. And I think many people unfortunately feel today that's no longer the case. And so that makes all these issues very difficult. And they make tragic moments like this death that we just saw all of a sudden unstable in terms of what will happen after and what the reaction will be, and they can be manipulated very quickly by people in power. So I think that's why it's disconcerting. It brings American democracy. It leaves us in a very fraught moment.

WHITFIELD: And to continue with the parallels that you're making in your article with Rodney King and, you know, Renee Good, in the Rodney King case, there was a trial. The three officers were acquitted. And of course, you know, we don't have to, you know, kind of relive what that outcome was. But then in this case, you actually have the Department of Justice, the White House, who are saying that the ICE agent doesn't even need to be investigated, but instead the victim is to be further investigated.

ZELIZER: Not only the victim, but even state officials who said something. The mayor, the governor, who are calling for calm. So it's a total deterioration of conditions, meaning we're now way past whether there will be an investigation, what the outcome is. There's an all-out attack on the people who were involved in this claim of total immunity for the officer. So I think we've kind of moved backwards, not forwards, from 1991, when there was already a very disturbing and tragic moment on our hands.

WHITFIELD: All right, Julian Zelizer, always great to have you. Thank you so much.

ZELIZER: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: And in a moment, my conversation with Reverend Bernice King. That continues. Why she calls what's happening in America seasonal. And she says she has confidence that humanity is resilient. Stay with us.

[15:30:06]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: On this Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. holiday, I sat down with King's youngest daughter, Bernice King. She acknowledges people may be struggling to see through so much pain, division and unrest here in the U.S. and around the world. She reveals how she hopes her father's life lessons can apply.

[15:35:04]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

The White House has pressed the Smithsonian Institute, you know, to remove or downplay reminders of what the White House calls negative light. The Trump White House succeeded actually in getting the Smithsonian to -- at the National Portrait Gallery in Washington remove a placard that referred to Donald Trump's two impeachments and his supporters' January 6th attack on the U.S. Capitol.

And the museum actually swapped out a portrait of him, and instead it now includes an image of him leaning over a desk in the Oval Office with his -- with a scowl on his face and his fist on the desk. And I'm wondering, you know, what your reaction or your thoughts now are to that influence the White House is wielding?

REV. BERNICE KING, DAUGHTER OF MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.: It's going to sound weird for me to say this, but I really don't think about those things at that level. You know why?

WHITFIELD: Yes? Why?

KING: Because this is seasonal. There's an expiration date to this kind of disturbing evil.

WHITFIELD: But do you worry about the potential damage done even in a season? How --

KING: Oh, yes. That there may be damage but again we're resilient. Humanity is resilient. We -- and we have memory. As long as we keep our memory, we can recreate. It's when we lose that. The thing that we don't realize is what we have here. That's the most powerful thing we have. Everything else is stuffing things. And so as long as you have the spirit and you got this mind, they can't take anything from you. That's why people survived enslavement.

And so, yes, from a natural sense, very troubling, very disturbing. Shouldn't be happening. But it is. But we will have the capacity, maybe even better, to recreate some things or to create anew in a way that we never thought about. So maybe it's time to elevate our thinking and start bringing solutions that are beyond what we've ever done before. So, yes, don't get me wrong. It's very troubling and disturbing. But it's temporary. That stuff is temporary. Now people's lives are lost. That's not temporary. You know, the inhumanity and the violation. People are going to have to live -- people have been stripped away from their families and loved ones.

That's a difficult thing for them to have to live with and overcome. That's something that you cannot replace. You know? But this kind of history I want people to look at the black community in this way for a minute. We've been here over, what, 400, 500 years? We were brought here from, you know, in chains and all of that. But some kind of way, who we have been through time and history outside of just being enslaved is emerging more and more.

This is a season for us to really think about being constructive, positive, creative, innovative.

WHITFIELD: So your dad's dream included something in there for everyone, right? In the great vaults of opportunity, freedom from the chains of discrimination, and lifting the nation to the solid rock of brotherhood. Just some of the things that are so memorable that he has said. You've heard people worrying out loud, you know, about what is happening. Are we as a nation going backward? Our dreams deferred. How do you see it, and how is it that you remain so hopeful?

KING: Our behavior and posture is important in this transition. You don't want to add fuel to the fire in this season. You want to always stay centered in truth and love. What's right and just, because again it's -- it has an expiration date. What's happening right now hasn't -- we've seen things -- we got through the Great Depression, right? When I used to read my mother's book, because she was born right before the Great Depression, I was like they lived in the midst of that. But reading her story some kind of way, I didn't get that from it.

It was happening. But she was on this trajectory in spite of it, you know? And that's what gives me hope. I see what people in past generations went through and they got through.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

KING: So if they got through it and I come from them, and this is for everybody, this is not a black thing or white thing, a Latino thing, an Asian thing. It's a whole world thing. The humanity as a whole, generations after generations have met very difficult, challenging, dark, evil, you know, wartime, everything you can think of.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

[15:40:11]

KING: But we still have emerged to a better place.

WHITFIELD: I think about that with my parents. Same, you know, born in the depression and resilient.

KING: Resilient.

WHITFIELD: Is the best way I can describe both of them throughout their entire lives.

KING: Exactly.

WHITFIELD: And I always wonder, how did you do that? I've asked them directly, how did you do that? But I love that you're asking the same questions or have, you know, been inspired by the same ingredients that your mom, you know. So is that a reference point for you on a regular?

KING: Always a reference point. I'll never forget the things she told me over and over again before she passed because she would share different stories about the movement, and she said, baby, the darkest hour is always before the dawn. What she was not telling me that, you know, it's going to be dark all the time. But she was trying to convey to me that dawn is coming.

Now it means we have to be vigilant in our efforts because at some point, again, the sun is going to rise. We're going to see the breaking of a new day. So just continue to do the good that you were doing. And even if you personally don't benefit from it or see it, you have planted an important seed or water to seed for that fact. You know, my dad didn't get to see a lot of things that his daughter is now benefiting from, but he planted some important seeds.

He laid an important foundation. And so that's what, you know, I hold on to on a daily basis. I want to put out positive energy. I want to encourage people. I want people to feel empowered. I want them to know, yes, the truth is, there's no excuse for what's happening in some of the things that we are seeing and witnessing. But at the same time, we can do good ourselves. We can keep pushing, we can keep resisting it, and we can -- more importantly, we can lean into Dr. King and Mrs. King and their teachings, and there are things that we can extract from their teachings to give us the fuel that we need in this time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And we'll have more of my conversation with Bernice King in the next hour, reflecting on how her mother, Coretta Scott King, was key in preserving her father's legacy and securing this national holiday.

All right, in just a moment, some pretty scary moments in New Jersey when a group of children get stuck on ice. We'll show you the dramatic rescue in the middle of the night.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:47:39]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey.

(CROSSTALK)

(END VIDEO CLIP) WHITFIELD: Some pretty terrifying moments right there as a Pokemon store in New York City was being robbed. Three armed men with a gun and hammers entering the store wearing masks. You see there. And the store, it was pretty packed, look at that, with families, children. More than 40 customers, in fact, at a time of the robbery happening right there. Lives being threatened, with the gun being pointed at them.

An employee told CNN affiliate WABC that it took only three minutes for the thieves to get away with more than $100,000 worth of Pokemon cards and accessories. No one was hurt, thankfully, during the incident, and an investigation is underway.

And in the last five days, 124 new measles cases are being reported in South Carolina. That means there are now more than 550 cases in the state since the outbreak started in October. The majority of the patients are in Spartanburg County, and more than 500 additional people are in quarantine after being exposed to a known measles case. Multiple measles cases in North Carolina are now being linked to the outbreak there in South Carolina.

And we now have new video of two teenagers being pulled to safety after getting stuck on thin ice in New Jersey. They were walking across a frozen creek yesterday, but then the ice started cracking and once they realized that they couldn't make it back, they called for help. Rescuers moved in with an ice sled and they took them off the island one at a time there. Crews say the boys stayed calm, which helped the rescue move quickly and cleanly and safely. Both were checked out and they went home in good condition.

All right, straight ahead, taking care of your health takes many forms, from your body to your mind. But what about your spiritual health? We'll speak with a very familiar face there. Self-help guru, Iyanla Vanzant. You've seen her with Oprah. You've seen her on her own, her own show, through her books. Well, guess what? She's going to be with us, talking about the importance of what she calls spiritual hygiene.

[15:50:06]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. For decades, Iyanla Vanzant has offered spiritual growth and healing to millions through her work with Oprah Winfrey. Her own books and shows, she has helped millions find a better spiritual path. And now, just in time for the new year, she has a new book out called "Spiritual Hygiene: A Practical Path for Clean Living, Inner Authority and Divine Freedom."

[15:55:06]

She's also on the road hosting talks on the book, and we are lucky enough to have her joining us this afternoon.

Great to see you, Iyanla Vanzant.

IYANLA VANZANT, AUTHOR, "SPIRITUAL HYGIENE": Great to see you. Thank you for having me.

WHITFIELD: Well, I've been following you for many, many years, always feeling very inspired and good after hearing you speak. But now this is something different. You say this journey is really designed to help cleanse your heart, your body, your soul. So first off, help us understand what you mean by cleansing.

VANZANT: Yes, it means clearing out. It means restoring maybe what was given away. It means remembering what was forgotten. It means calling back in your authentic power and sovereignty. You know, we brush our teeth. We wash our bodies. But we forget to clean our minds. We forget to clear our hearts. We forget to ground our spirits. And that's what spiritual hygiene is about.

WHITFIELD: So what do we need as individuals need to be attuned to, to recognize that we need some cleansing?

VANZANT: Yes. How do you feel? I mean, that's the first ticket. How do you feel every single day? Are you constantly worried? Are you constantly hurried? Are you running around and feeling like you're not getting anywhere, not getting anything done? Are you still mad at boo- boo because he left you back in '56? Are you unforgiving? Are you criticizing yourself? Are you judging other people?

You know, right now there's so much going on in the world, and we may think that the energy, the things that we see, the things that we hear, don't affect us. But everything is energy. So everything you see, everything you hear, everything that you walk into and walk through has an impact on you. And it needs to be cleaned up. I mean, you wouldn't walk into a cave of soot and then go home and get into bed.

You would wash your clothes, wash your hair. Well, the same thing is true when you're hearing fear and anger and againstness and divisiveness.

WHITFIELD: Yes, I can totally identify with that first thing you mentioned, you know, racing around, feeling like you, you know, you never really stop. You're just going from one thing to the next to the next. So let's use that as an example, because I know a lot of people can identify with that because everyone feels very hurried. So what might be one of the first or maybe the top three steps? What do you do to now, after you recognize that, how are you going about the cleansing? How are you trying to, I guess, shed that hurriedness feeling?

VANZANT: I have a prescription. You know, I'll be your doctor for the day. I have a prescription.

WHITFIELD: OK, I'll take it.

VANZANT: I'm writing to the entire planet. Seven minutes, three times a day for 21 consecutive days. Be still. No music, no phone, no talking. Just be still. Because what that's going to do is it's going to bring the residue to the surface that you can then either write out or speak out or breathe out, but it's going to bring everything to the surface. We're so busy because stillness supports us in feeling and we are afraid to feel.

WHITFIELD: This book was inspired by some very deep feelings that you had or continue to experience because of the loss of your daughter, Anissa, in 2023. I mean, what is it that you experienced in that grief and loss that made you feel like, you know what, others are probably going through the same thing. And I have some advice, you know, that I've -- I can impart because I've experienced it too.

VANZANT: Yes. I wouldn't call it advice. I would call it experience. There are a lot of people grieving right now. They're grieving the loss of their job. They're grieving the loss of what they thought their dreams were. You know, people are grieving the loss of loved ones. People are still grieving from the COVID shutdown, and we're not taught, nor do we understand the power of grief.

We know that it's sad. It's hard. It lasts a long time. Grief is also a teacher because it teaches us how deeply we can love, how deeply we do love. Grief is also an initiation because it brings up thoughts and feelings that you may never even know that you have. So when you can acknowledge the grief, when you can be present with the grief, when you cannot resist the grief but embody it and really allow it to guide you, it will take you into the depths of your heart and your capacity to love.

And I learned that with my second daughter, Nissa was my second daughter that I lost.