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Massive Winter Storm; Videos Contradict DHS Account Of Fatal Minneapolis Shooting; CNN Video Analysis Sheds New Light On Killing Of Pretti; Winter Storm Bring Snow, Ice from Gulf Coast To Northeast; Outrage Deepens Across Twin Cities. Aired 1-2p ET

Aired January 25, 2026 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, breaking news. We're following two major stories this afternoon. Massive winter storm, snow, ice, and extreme cold now slamming the south and northeast. Almost a million homes and businesses right now, they are without power. And next hour, we'll hear directly from the Minnesota Governor Tim Walz and the state's attorney general. There are major discrepancies in how the federal government is describing what happened before Border Patrol shot and killed 37-year-old Alex Pretti and what the video actually shows.

We want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in the Situation Room.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

BLITZER: First, we're following the breaking news out of Minneapolis after the fatal shooting of yet another American citizen by federal agents there. The city has been consumed by scenes of outrage and sadness following the death of Alex Pretti, a 37-year-old intensive care unit nurse at a Veterans Hospital. We're hearing very differing accounts of what exactly happened. Here's what the top Border Patrol official, Gregory Bovino, told CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GREGORY BOVINO, BORDER PATROL COMMAND-AT-LARGE: The victims are the Border Patrol agents. I'm not blaming the Border Patrol agents. The victim are the Border Patrol agents. The suspect put himself in that situation. The victims are the Border Patrol agents there. Follow directions of law enforcement. Follow directions of law enforcement in an active crime scene. It's very evident he didn't want to do that. Very evident that the other individuals didn't want to do that. And, you know, it's too bad the consequences had to be paid because he injected himself into that crime scene.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: A witness said that Pretti did not resist or reach for a gun. And a CNN analysis of the footage appears to show a federal immigration officer removing a gun from Pretti just prior to officers fatally shooting him. Here's how the Homeland Security Secretary, Kristi Noem, responded this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If he was disarmed, is it the protocol to use deadly force?

KRISTI NOEM, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: And that's all part of this investigation. Every video will be analyzed. Everything will be looked at. And that's part of the answer is that I can't speak to every single thing that those officers' thought. But this happened in seconds. They clearly feared for their lives and took action to defend themselves and the people around them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. Let's go live right now to CNN Anchor and senior national correspondent Sara Sidner. She's on the scene for us in Minneapolis. Sara, you've been there for days now, even facing pepper spray, which we all saw. What's it like on the ground right now in the wake of this latest fatal shooting?

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Look, there is a mix of sorrow. You are seeing people coming out to a growing memorial to Alex Pretti. But the message here from people who were here on the ground, some of the witnesses that we spoke to that saw the Border Patrol agents shooting Pretti, use your eyes. Do not listen to the lies of DHS and the Trump administration. That is the message from here.

They're saying there's so much video out there that you can see for yourself what happened. You heard from Greg Bovino in that interview with Dana Bash this morning. He was saying that there was a riot. Where was the riot on the video? He was saying that Pretti, initially they said that Pretti approached officers with a gun. In not a single video are you seeing Pretti with a gun in his hand. The only thing that we can see on all of the videos from all of the different angles is that he has a cell phone in his hand.

And at one point, it is officers, it is agents who approach him, not the other way around. It appears he's holding his camera, trying to take pictures of what is going on as an observer here, because he does not like what ICE has been doing. He does not like the deadly force that they have been using here in his city, a city that he loves.

[13:05:00]

He is also being remembered as an ICU nurse who worked at the Veterans Hospital. And there are images of him at that hospital saying a final goodbye to a soldier. So, the fury and sorrow here is that someone from the community that was beloved is now lost. Another shooting in just under a month, three shootings, two of them fatal.

I do want to bring in our chief justice and crime reporter, Shimon Prokupecz, because when we arrived on the scene, we saw that there was a state agency that was here. There were quite a few members of the state agency. And I've just gotten this new information. I learned that one of the witnesses has already spoken to them. So, they are clearly doing an investigation. What is the significance of them being on the ground here?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it could possibly, Sara, be the only legitimate investigation we get here. And I say this because we don't exactly know what the federal government is doing. They have not said. There is an internal investigation by the CBP OPR, which is their Office of Professional Responsibility.

And so, there's a process. You know, I spoke to someone, a former person last night with that agency, and he said that there's an entire process that is mandated by Congress that they will have to undergo. But the question is, it's going to be tested like it has never been tested under this administration. And will that be a fair process?

The other thing is significant. You saw BCA out here. You know, we just went to one business here because there are some locations here with cameras to see if anyone from the federal government has gone in to any of these locations to ask for video. And one business owner said no. But she said, to your point, that BCA was in touch with her to ask for her cameras. She doesn't have any working cameras. To me, that's already significant because the federal government is supposed to be investigating this. This is their agents. What are they doing? And there's a lot of questions.

I mean, thankfully, there are a lot of witnesses. There is a lot of video. And the BCA is going to be able -- they are a very thorough and very respected investigative body. They will be able to put all of this together based on those witnesses. But there is a lot of significant evidence that we don't know if they're going to have access to. The agents --

SIDNER: Right. They have their body cam. The --

PROKUPECZ: -- the shell casings, all of that is going to be important. And will the BCA be able to have access? But here's the thing, and quickly, if this is going to be treated as a homicide investigation or, let's say, a shooting, a murder investigation, there is no statute of limitations. So, this could go on for quite some time, and we'll see what they do.

SIDNER: I do appreciate that you're here. I know you've been on the ground off and on throughout all of this, Shimon. And you're just speaking to the fact that it is significant that the state agency is here, unlike what happened with the Renee Goods shooting, where the feds said, we don't want to work with you. The state and local agencies said, why not? And they were kept from it, and they were accused of being sort of like kangaroo court, if you will.

Now, they're saying, according to the governor, oh, no, no, no, we're going to be involved in this investigation. And now, we're seeing the result of that, BCA on the ground here. We saw them in a large group this morning talking to different people. It is very, very significant. Thank you so much, Shimon. I do appreciate it. That is the scene here. We were right outside the donut shop where the shooting happened, just across the street there. And it is a growing memorial, as you see throughout the day. But a very different scene, Wolf, as you mentioned, from yesterday, when this entire street, kind of known as Eat Street here, because there's so many wonderful restaurants of many different parts of the world that you can get food from here. It is now calm, not filled with tear gas, as it was yesterday, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Sara, thank you very, very much. Excellent reporting. Thank Shimon as well. We have multiple angles of this shooting on videos from bystanders. And CNN analyzed all of those key moments from those videos. We want to warn our viewers right now, this report that you're about to see contains disturbing and graphic images.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GIANNA TOBONI (PH): Federal immigration officers fatally shot a man Saturday in Minneapolis. He was an ICU nurse who worked at a local veteran affairs hospital. Another controversial killing by U.S. immigration agents. And the second U.S. citizen killed this month.

CNN analyzed cell phone footage from multiple angles. Taken together, they appear at odds with the Department of Homeland Security's initial claims about the lead-up to officers firing on Alex Pretti. Around 9:00 a.m. Central, video captures two people approaching a federal immigration officer in front of an unidentified vehicle. The sound of whistles is blaring in the background.

Alex Pretti enters the frame here. He's filming an officer interacting with protesters and waving a car through. Fifteen seconds later, Pretti yells --

ALEX PRETTY, NURSE: Hey, do not push them into the traffic.

TOBONI (PH): In their statement, DHS said that an individual approached officers with, quote, "a 9mmsemi-automatic handgun." This video seems to show officers approaching Pretti, instead of the other way around.

[13:10:00]

We'll see later that Pretti does appear to have had a gun in his waistband. But this video shows he didn't have a gun in his hand, only a phone. Video from this white car shows an up-close angle of a federal immigration officer pushing one protester. Then, three seconds later, Pretti is shot in the back of the head by a federal immigration officer. Three seconds later, he pushes Pretti. And then, as the camera comes into focus, you see the same federal officer push a third protester with the orange backpack.

Pretti raises his hand and turns away, just as the officer sprays him with a chemical irritant. You see Pretti and the other protester trying to help the person with the orange backpack. You can see here an officer pulling Pretti off of this person. Three more officers join, and then two more. Pretti is on the ground under them. One officer in a tan beanie can be seen repeatedly striking Pretti's head with a metal can.

You can see an officer in a gray jacket walk into the frame. There isn't a gun in his hand. Seconds later, officers shout. The officer removes the gun from Pretti's belt. The officer steps away from the scene carrying a firearm, seen here in his right hand. Then, gunfire.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The -- did you just do?

TOBONI (PH): At least 10 shots ring out. We looked back at the scene from different angles and slowed down the footage. This officer wearing a black beanie can be seen drawing his firearm and pointing it in Pretti's direction. We can't see his gun when the first shot is fired, but we can see that this officer fired the second shot.

In this angle, you see a second officer also had his gun drawn. And here, he's pointing his weapon at Pretti as we hear gunshots, though it isn't clear if he's the one firing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What the -- did they -- kill that guy?

TOBONI (PH): Pretti collapses onto the ground as the officers scatter backwards from around him. The same agent in the black beanie from earlier can be seen firing five final shots as Pretti lies there, motionless. Nobody approached his body for 24 seconds. When officers do return to Pretti, they appear to begin searching his body.

Video shows that about a minute after Pretti collapsed, immigration officers ask for medical support. When CNN asked DHS about the officer removing the gun before the shooting, DHS repeated their earlier statement, quote, "officers attempted to disarm the suspect, but the armed suspect violently resisted."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And our special thanks to Gianna Toboni (ph) for that report. Joining us now, CNN senior law enforcement analyst Andrew McCabe. He's also the former deputy director of the FBI. Andy, thanks so much for joining us. What part of these videos, and they're really so painful to watch, stands out to you the most?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Wolf, there's so many elements of these videos that stand out as being just aberrations of normal law enforcement behavior and training. Well, let's start at the beginning where you have those, not Mr. Pretti, but the other two observers that were present engaging with the immigration officer on the opposite side of the street.

It's clear that that officer is not actually in that moment engaged in some sort of a targeted operation. He's simply walking away from his car, doesn't appear to be under any sort of duress. The two observers disengage from him, cross the street, and he pursues them. That's when Mr. Pretti joins those two observers.

And now, you see that immigration officer essentially assaulting all three of them. He shoves the woman in the black brown coat first, then he shoves the person with the orange backpack onto the ground, and then he comes after Alex Pretti.

All of this is in stark contrast to the narrative that we have heard from DHS, from secretary, from Mr. Bovino, and also from the White House. This is not, this is very clearly not a situation where Alex Pretti provoked some sort of a hostile or intimidating action with the ICE agents. In fact, the opposite is true. These agents created a conflict and escalated it until it cost that man his life.

BLITZER: Yes, so sad. From the videos that you've seen, Andy, do you think Pretti's gun may actually have discharged after the officer took it?

MCCABE: I don't see any indication of that in the video, Wolf. In fact, at no time is Alex Pretti seen from any angle with a gun in his hand. Now, admittedly, he ends up on the ground and it's a scrum, there's five, maybe six agents on top of him, so it's hard to see.

[13:15:00]

Until we have that very clear, isolated pieces of video that CNN has posted now that shows a gun being taken from him, and of course it's after that gun is taken off of him that he is then shot, he's essentially killed while unarmed. So, I don't know that there's -- I don't see any indication that Pretti had the gun in his possession and fired it or that accidentally it discharged.

BLITZER: He's on the ground, he's not even moving, and you can hear about 10 gunshot wounds fired directly at him. What does that say to you?

MCCABE: It's a fairly common situation in law enforcement uses of deadly force. When one officer or agent draws their gun and fires a shot, other agents reflexively draw their guns and look to see where the threat is. And oftentimes, agents can fire sympathetically or essentially because the person standing next to them is firing, they begin firing as well. It's possible that that happened here.

But these are the kind of details and facts that we won't know until there's a thorough, unbiased, complete investigation conducted. That's why we so desperately need that.

BLITZER: Here's how the border patrol commander-at-large, Gregory Bovino, described the events leading up to the shooting, and you can also see what actually happened at the scene. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOVINO: De-escalation techniques were utilized during this action. Those de-escalation techniques, whether it was physically trying to remove them from that law enforcement scene, that active law enforcement scene in which law enforcement were going after a violent illegal alien, or the use of pepper spray, which is another de- escalation technique, those techniques did not work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Did you see -- actually see de-escalation tactics?

MCCABE: Absolutely not. Mr. Bovino's statements are completely disconnected from reality. I don't know if he doesn't know what he's talking about, or if he's deliberately lying to the public. One of those two things must be true. It's up to him to let us know which it is.

What you see in that video clip is escalation. That's where the agent in the brown beanie, the tan colored beanie, pursues all three, Mr. Pretti and the other two, across the street and actively assaults them. They don't present any sort of threat to him. They're not even close to him. He gets right up to them, shoves each one of them to the ground, and then pepper sprays the victim, Mr. Pretti.

BLITZER: I want to play what the FBI Director Kash Patel said this morning about Alex Pretti and the fact he had a gun. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KASH PATEL, FBI DIRECTOR: As Kristi said, you cannot bring a firearm loaded with multiple magazines to any sort of protest that you want. It's that simple. You don't have that right to break the law and incite violence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Police say it's believed that Pretti was a lawful gun owner with a permit to carry. In fact, in Minnesota, it's legal. If you have a permit, you can actually carry a weapon. This could sound similar to the Kyle Rittenhouse case that you covered, where he was acquitted of homicide after killing two people during a protest in Kenosha, Wisconsin. What do you see in these two cases?

MCCABE: Well, first of all, Mr. Patel is dead wrong. Dead wrong on the law, as usual, and not hesitating to spread misinformation to the public. Mr. Pretti was a lawful gun owner. That's according to the State of Minnesota. He not only had a gun, but he had a permit to carry that gun in a concealed fashion. That's what he was doing that day.

That permit does not come with a caveat that says, but you can't carry your gun concealed or openly to a protest. It's not that you can't have it both ways. If the guy was following the law, carrying his gun lawfully, then he doesn't deserve to get killed for that.

As far as Kyle Rittenhouse is concerned, Mr. Rittenhouse was acquitted because a jury found that he acted in self-defense. Now, whether or not he acted with good judgment is a totally different question. But Mr. Rittenhouse, in his own defense, said that when, for instance, the first person he shot grabbed the front of his rifle, tried to take it away from him, he felt like he was in fear of his life. You don't see any of that on this video.

As I said before, at no time on any of these video clips do you see Alex Pretti with a gun in his hand pointing at it, pointing at those agents, threatening those agents in any way. If it happened, let's see the evidence. But so far, the federal government has not shown us that.

BLITZER: Let's not forget Alex Pretti was a nurse in the intensive care unit at the Veterans' Hospital there in Minnesota. A very, very decent guy indeed. All right. Andrew McCabe, thank you very, very much.

Still to come, we'll have more from Minneapolis just ahead. But the other big story we're tracking this Sunday is that monster winter storm. It's now moving up the East Coast. CNN's Gloria Pazmino is in New York City. She's tracking conditions there. Gloria?

[13:20:00]

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf, and it has been coming down here in New York City steadily now for several hours. It's little, little tiny packets of snow that hit your face and feel like little needles, but despite conditions here, you can see that New Yorkers are out taking in the scenery, coming out to walk despite these conditions. We'll tell you more about the city's efforts to clean up when we get back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:25:00]

BLITZER: We're following breaking news this morning of a massive winter storm that's stretching from Texas to New England. And as it pushes east on that sprawling track of some 1,600 miles, it's unleashing snow, freezing rain, sleet, and ice. Take a look at this live look at Dallas from our affiliate KTVT. Near Pittsburgh, the heaviest snow is yet to come, but forecasters say some areas could see a foot of snow before the storm tapers off tomorrow.

This is what people awakened to this morning in Austin, Texas. Ice and snow blanketing the city as the worst of the storm blew through the region overnight. In Florence, Alabama, first responders found themselves in need of help. Their fire truck slid off the ice-covered road. No one was hurt. And an industrial tow team was able to pull it free.

In the south, freezing rain has been the big problem. This is Clarksville, Tennessee. The state has seen more than half an inch of ice causing widespread power outages. Indeed, across the U.S. right now, more than 900,000 homes and businesses are without power. Tennessee makes up almost a third of that. We're following all these late-breaking developments of this very, very dangerous monster storm.

CNN's Gloria Pazmino is on the scene for us in New York. Right now, CNN meteorologist Allison Chinchar is over at the CNN Weather Center. Let's begin with you, Gloria. What is New York experiencing right now?

PAZMINO: Well, Wolf, I just want to show you very quickly, if we turn around right now, I know you're a Buffalo guy, but people are out here enjoying the conditions. This guy just strapped on his skis and is going for a walk in Central Park. And as you can see, there's a lot of people here.

Even though I just spoke to Mayor Zohran Mamdani a few hours ago, and he was telling me he really is asking New Yorkers to stay inside. The reason for that is so that sanitation workers can get to work clearing the roads, cleaning up the sidewalks. So, far, so good, he told me. The city has significantly increased the number of workers. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D-NY): We had initially had 2,000 DSNY workers for every 12-hour shift. That's now gone up to 2,500 people per 12- hour shift. We're seeing a lot of their work in advance of the storm being critical in helping us meet this moment. We are frankly seeing too many New Yorkers still out on the roads. That's actually impeding the ability for sanitation to meet this moment. So, the more people stay home, the more work our city workers can actually get done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAZMINO: Wolf, also important here in New York City, the mayor announced earlier today that tomorrow the city schools, the public schools will be closed. The buildings will be closed, but students will be doing remote learning. That's big news for families and parents who of course need the time to be able to plan starting into the work week tomorrow.

I also spoke to a handful of New Yorkers this morning, Wolf, you know, not much keeps people inside their home and there's a lot of people trying to take in the scenery, trying to take in the storm, taking pictures, including one man who told me this morning he ran seven miles. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not? I mean, this is beautiful. I feel like when it snows, everything kind of slows down. Everything's calm. The city gets quiet. It looks like manageable right now.

PAZMINO: Are you well prepared, fully stocked?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we are. We did the grocery shopping. We got the car all taken care of, put in the garage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's crazy out here. I'm sick of it.

PAZMINO: You're sick of it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

PAZMINO: Too cold.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Too cold.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAZMINO: So, Wolf, we are still expecting several more hours of snowfall. And the big question going into the evening will, of course, be the cleanup. A bit of a new test and a new challenge for this new administration from the new mayor. But so far, so good from what we have been seeing around on the roads here in Manhattan. Wolf.

BLITZER: A lot of snow in New York City right now. All right. Gloria, thank you very much. I want to step back and get the big picture right now. Our meteorologist, Allison Chinchar, is over at the CNN Weather Center for us. Allison, what are you seeing? What does it look like?

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: All right. so we've got a little bit of everything, Wolf. You've got your rain. You've got your snow. You've got your ice. And even the potential for tornadoes, because this is a very extreme storm system as it continues to make its way off to the north and east.

You can see heavy snow right now across portions of Boston, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, even across Youngstown, Ohio. Stretching down to the south, we're starting to see those temperatures warming back up. So, the change over into rain for some folks in Alabama and Georgia and even Florida.

But you've also got some thunderstorms down across the extreme south. This is where we have the potential for tornadoes going through the rest of the afternoon and early evening. This tornado watch is in effect until 6:00 p.m. Central time today, as we could expect some of those stronger thunderstorms along the southern fringe of that line.

[13:30:00]

Farther north, though, those temperatures are much cooler. That's why you're getting more of the winter precipitation. You have several still that are kind of right there along that freezing mark. So, it's a little bit of a mix. Sometimes snow, sometimes freezing rain or sleet. But farther north, where the temperatures are well below freezing, this is where we're getting the snow. And that dark purple color, that's where you're talking about the incredibly heavy bands of snow.

Now, where we've had a lot of significant icing, this is where you're seeing some of those highest power outage numbers. But we do expect to see some additional colors popping on this map, especially farther east and farther north as the storm system continues to progress for the day today.

Looking at some of these ice amounts, it's no wonder you have such high-power outages. Look at this. Brentwood, Tennessee, that's a suburb of Nashville, three quarters of an inch of ice. Several others, places like Louisiana, Tennessee, Kentucky, right around that half inch mark. And some of those numbers are still going to go up because it's not done. These are the areas where we could still see up to an additional quarter of an inch of ice on top of what they've already had. Now, for the rest of the day today, the focus is really going to be the southeast, the mid-Atlantic, and the northeast before the system as a whole begins to finally wrap up by the time we get to Monday morning.

BLITZER: That's a long time from now from my perspective here in Washington, DC. All right. Allison Chinchar, thank you. And Gloria Pazmino, thanks to you as well.

Coming up, we'll have the latest from Minneapolis, where another deadly shooting of an American citizen is deepening outrage across the Twin Cities and, indeed, across the country. Let's head back to Sara Sidner in Minneapolis. Sara?

SIDNER: Thank you, Wolf. We are now going to be joined by Sarah Saldana. She is the former acting ICE director during the Obama administration. Thank you so much for being here. We are live here in Minneapolis, where there is a large gathering behind us. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:35:00]

SIDNER: All right. I am live here in Minneapolis where there is a growing memorial to Alex Pretti, the 37-year-old ICU nurse who was here and ended up losing his life at the hands of Border Patrol agents. We are hearing a lot from Border Patrol. We're hearing a lot from the commander of Border Patrol, Greg Bovino, and DHS's Kristi Noem. But there is also the videos that are out there. And what they're saying does not match what people are seeing in the videos.

So, bringing in now the former ICE director during the Obama administration, Sarah Saldana, thank you so much for being here with me. First of all, you have told me that you have seen these videos. Here's some of the lines that we've heard from Greg Bovino when he was talking to our Dana Bash just earlier this morning. He said first there was a riot. Then he said, according to DHS, that Alex Pretti had a firearm, approached the officers, the agents with a firearm. Did you see any of that in the video?

SARAH SALDANA, DIRECTOR OF ICE UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA: No, thank you for having me on. I don't have to tell your audience what can be seen on the video, and there's no sight of a gun. I am really concerned about the need of the administration, it seems, to not deal clearly, transparently, and truthfully with the American public. He did not approach at any time the law enforcement with anything other than a cell phone, and his other hand trying to direct traffic or assist the woman who had been pushed down by an officer.

And I will point out to you, we keep talking about ICE here. I led that agency. We were able to do all kinds of interior enforcement. Well, under my watch, there was about at least a half a million that we removed from the country, and it was not with loss of life. There is no reason to be making facts up when the public can see clearly what is happening. All you're doing is diminishing the agency. And the agency is not alone here. I really hold DHS, the department, the Umbrella Agents Department, that covers CBP, ICE, and other agencies in the national security area. And I even think I saw yesterday a Bureau of Prisons uniform from somebody that's been brought in to do interior enforcement. And that is just totally uncalled for.

SIDNER: I am curious how things would normally go during the normal course of the way that ICE investigates if there is an ICE-involved shooting, if there is a shooting within the agency. And juxtapose with what you're hearing is happening here, both with the Renee Good shooting and now with this shooting. What's different here?

SALDANA: Well, everything, any kind of a shooting, whether it leads to a loss of life or not, is investigated. And it is so important, and I can't urge this strongly enough, to have a transparent and extensive investigation of both of these killings. It should -- the ICE agency itself, the department and the administration should welcome an investigation so all the facts can be brought out.

What is different here is that we had very targeted operations when we were -- when I was the director of ICE.

[13:40:00]

We -- it takes time, it takes commitment, and we did that. You investigate thoroughly, you gather your intelligence, you head out at a time that is not going to intrude on the daily lives of people, very early in the morning. You have the appropriate number of officers with you, not a whole slew of officers who do more than just -- who do no more than just appear to be sweeping the streets. So, that is the difference, and you would find that the community would be more welcoming if the proper protocol was followed.

Here, I'm afraid it's time for DHS to admit that it has lost the community in Minnesota, and you cannot be an effective and efficient law enforcement agency without the support of the community, and that's what really concerns me about the future. I don't want to be talking about these killings anymore.

SIDNER: You and the people here, and I can tell you from talking to those who are here on the ground, there is absolutely no trust when it comes to the community members and how they see ICE and the federal government now, and that may last for a very, very long time, potentially generations, because they are teaching their kids that what they are seeing and hearing are two different things, seeing on video, hearing from DHS, two very different things, and they just don't feel like they can trust the agencies, and that is partly why they're asking ICE to leave this community. Thank you so much, Sarah Saldana, for joining us. Do appreciate your time.

Wolf, I'm going to toss it back to you from live here in Minneapolis at the growing memorial for Alex Pretti.

BLITZER: Yes, we'll get back to you soon, Sara. Thank you very, very much. And we'll stay on top of what's going on in Minnesota right now and tell you what we're learning about Saturday's deadly shooting of Alex Pretti. I'll speak to the attorney representing the family of Renee Good, the 37-year-old killed by an ICE agent in Minnesota earlier this month. We'll get his take on what just happened in Minneapolis.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:45:00]

BLITZER: We're following the breaking news out of Minneapolis right now and the nationwide fallout after the fatal shooting of 37-year-old American citizen Alex Pretti by a Border Patrol officer. And it marks the second deadly shooting by federal agents in the city this month. You remember that back on January 7th, an ICE agent fatally shot Renee Good, also an American citizen and a mother of three, which sparked protests, not only in Minnesota, but across the country.

Joining us now to discuss all of this and more is the attorney representing Renee Good's family, Antonio Romanucci. Antonio, thanks so much for joining us. I wish we were meeting under different circumstances. But how is Renee Good's family, first of all, responding to this latest fatal shooting of Alex Pretti in Minneapolis?

ANTONIO ROMANUCCI, RENEE GOOD FAMILY ATTORNEY AND FOUNDING PARTNER, ROMANUCCI& BLANDIN: Well, they are absolutely appalled and shocked. I mean, you know, one thing they thought was that maybe there was something to be learned what happened on January 7th here in Minnesota. And instead, the opposite is happening. We're seeing escalation. And from what I'm seeing on this video, a totally needless -- another needless death yesterday. BLITZER: Have you or anyone in Renee Good's family, for that matter, had any contact with the family of Alex Pretti? And if so, is there talk of potentially working together to try to get answers about both of these shootings?

ROMANUCCI: So, we have not spoken to the Alex Pretti family. It might be a little premature for that yet. You know, they need to process a lot. And if that happens, we'll be here for them. But they need to evaluate and process what happened. Because the video yesterday is very clear. This young man should be alive today.

BLITZER: Members of the Trump administration, as you know, have labeled both Renee Good and Alex Pretti, for that matter, domestic terrorists, their words, domestic terrorists. How do you respond to that?

ROMANUCCI: Well, first of all, I think they're conflating what constitutional rights are and what a domestic terrorist is. Yesterday, I saw nothing of that nature at all. Indeed, I saw three constitutional violations yesterday. Violations of First Amendment, violation of Second Amendment, violation of Fourth Amendment.

This man, Alex Pretti, was peacefully assembling. He was exercising his right to freedom of speech. He was lawfully carrying his weapon with him. He was not brandishing it by definition, by any stretch at all. And we saw that violation of the Fourth Amendment. He was unlawfully seized. He was not free at all. And he -- there was excessive force used, which obviously caused his death. So, I see violations across the board here yesterday, not domestic terrorism.

BLITZER: Antonio, given everything we've seen over the past month in Minneapolis since the Trump administration began its immigration crackdown, how would you advise demonstrators to conduct themselves when protesting ICE and Border Patrol?

ROMANUCCI: Well, there is no doubt that the protests have to be -- they need to be continue to be peaceful. They need to be nonviolent.

[13:50:00]

I was out on the streets earlier today, and I have to tell you, I saw the most respectful and dignified assemblies that I have seen. That's the way they should be done. Minnesota residents, Minneapolis residents are doing that. But when they are pushed to the brink and when they are escalated with violence, we still ask them to please try and resist that because we don't want anything to happen that could further jeopardize their rights.

BLITZER: And please pass along our love to the Renee Good family. Antonio Romanucci, thank you so much for joining us.

ROMANUCCI: Thank you.

BLITZER: And for more on this story, I want to bring in right now CNN legal analyst Elliot Williams. He's a former federal prosecutor and also previously worked for as an assistant director for legislative affairs. Elliot, let's just start with what we heard from the attorney representing Renee Good's family. What stood out to you?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST AND FORMER ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS, ICE: This notion of domestic terrorism, Wolf. It's an important one because there's a legal definition for what constitutes a terrorist in America. And that's an individual who's using force or threats to intimidate a civilian population or to force political movement.

What I'm seeing here based on the videos that are publicly available, it's even close to that. People do have a right to be in public. People do have a right to film. Now, of course, the law does not allow anybody to impede or harm or threaten law enforcement. But this idea of merely being in public with a cell phone somehow being elevated to domestic terror simply is not supported by law. And it's just not accurate.

BLITZER: Yes. Important point. From a legal standpoint, Elliot, how much of an issue is it for the Department of Homeland Security that there have been three people now shot in about as many weeks by federal agents in Minnesota, two of them killed? Speak to some of the similarities between the cases, for example, of Renee Good and Alex Pretti.

WILLIAMS: Well, we should be careful speaking about similarities between cases, Wolf, because each one is a unique circumstance with a unique shooter, with unique circumstances around the shooting itself, and also a unique victim. And it's very difficult to overlap them. More than anything else, it's a PR issue for the Department of Homeland Security, given that in a very short amount of time, a number of people who it can be said were exercising some form of lawful behavior ended up dead.

Now, of course, what law enforcement can point to and say is that these are chaotic circumstances and people were threatening law enforcement, law enforcement's lives were in danger, and that, if they have evidence to back that up, then by all means, they ought to come forward with it and certainly will over time. But more than anything else, it is an embarrassment for the agency that they're going to have to confront largely because, again, not as a legal matter, but as a political matter, the public is seeing the same images you and I are and are certainly not liking what they're seeing.

BLITZER: I want to play, Elliot, what the top Border Patrol official Gregory Bovino told our colleague Dana Bash earlier this morning. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: I just want to also go back to what I was asking about with regard to what Secretary Noem said, that he was brandishing a gun. At any point, do you have any evidence that, yes, he had a gun on his person? Was he brandishing it? Was he a threat because he had a gun in his hand that put law enforcement in danger?

BOVINO: Dana, we heard the law enforcement officers say gun, gun, gun. So, at some point, they knew there was a gun. So, again, that is going to be part of that investigation as to what was happening on the ground there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Is seeing someone, Elliot, with a gun sufficient for an agent to shoot and kill that person? And what do you make of the fact that Bovino doesn't use the word, quote, "brandishing," like the Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem used?

WILLIAMS: You know, Wolf, it's -- we really have to hinge on that with a gun language that was in your question. It all depends on the totality of the circumstances of the legal term before you can assess someone's reasonableness of their action to use deadly force. I have a whole chapter in the book that -- you know, that I just wrote last week, Wolf, that came out about reasonableness for deadly force. Merely having a firearm on someone's person is not sufficient on its face just by itself for officers to use lethal force.

Were they threatened? Did they feel threatened? Was there some other information that they had about this individual or actions that he took that necessitated their lethal force? But we've had law enforcement guests all day talking about the fact that it's just not as simple as merely seeing that the individual had a firearm. The example that I use in the book, Wolf, is that if I have a rock in my pocket and someone comes and shoots me, they can't then say that I had a weapon and then that any lethal force was justified. So, it's far more simple than he had a firearm.

[13:55:00]

I would hope, as the director has said there, that there will be a full investigation into it to really get to the bottom of whether maybe they did perceive some threat. But based on what I've seen and the videos that Americans have seen, that explanation seems remarkably thin from the director.

BLITZER: And as all of us have heard over the past day or so, several Democrats in Congress are now saying they won't vote to fund the federal government without changes, major changes, to ICE, the organization where you once worked. What's your reaction to that?

WILLIAMS: That is Congress's one power, Wolf. And if you've noticed something over the last year or so, something Congress hasn't done a lot of is oversee the administration. There haven't been a ton of critical hearings about the activities of the administration, except on the Epstein files issue. There really hasn't been a lot of movement from Congress.

This is something Congress is allowed to do, certainly something I confronted as a senior leader at ICE when we were planning budgets and so on. And that's something that they're empowered to do. And it'll be interesting to see how it plays out. And ultimately, if they do get Republicans on board with them toward sort of forcing ICE's hand in some way.

BLITZER: We'll see how that unfolds. Elliot, thank you very, very much. Elliot Williams, helping us appreciate --

WILLIAMS: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: -- what's going on. And after the break, more from Minneapolis, as we await a news conference from Border Patrol and ICE officials. The Minnesota governor is also holding a news conference right at the top of the hour. We'll try to bring all of that to you live right here in The Situation Room.

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