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Police Activity Underway Two Miles from Guthrie's Home; U.S. Secretary of State Addresses Munich Security Conference; Tensions on High-Profile Investigations; DHS Funding Lapses, U.S. Government Now in Partial Shutdown; Munich Security Conference. Aired 4-5a ET
Aired February 14, 2026 - 04:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): This is CNN breaking news.
BRIAN ABEL, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hello and welcome to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. I'm Brian Abel.
And we are following breaking news out of Tucson, Arizona, where there's been police activity not far from the home of Nancy Guthrie.
However, the Sheriff's Department posted on social media just a short while ago, quote, "Because this is a joint investigation at the request of the FBI, no additional information is currently available."
The sheriff said earlier they are actively working a lead near Guthrie's home. Several roads in the area remain blocked off and forensics trucks left the scene just a short while ago.
The focus of intense police activity appears to be a residence about two miles from Guthrie's home. More than a dozen law enforcement vehicles have been seen at that location and CNN's Ed Lavandera was very close to that. Police activity near Guthrie's home. Here's what he reported within the last few hours.
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ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What we witnessed in this neighborhood, just two miles away from where Nancy Guthrie lives, is some of the most significant law enforcement activity we've seen in this two-week-long investigation and search for the 84-year-old mother of "Today" show host Savannah Guthrie.
This neighborhood is part of Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood. You can access it without reaching any of the major roads. We saw a long stream of law enforcement vehicles, forensic vehicles, SWAT vehicles descending down this street.
And on Friday night, it is not clear what has happened in terms of who, if anyone, has been taken into custody. Authorities here are simply not saying at this point. Local law enforcement officials said that the information was being held at the request of the FBI.
Presumably this means that they're working to get more clarity, as this is -- still remains a very fluid situation but it has been a very intense scene as I mentioned. This is not like anything we have seen in this two-week-long investigation since Nancy Guthrie disappeared on February 1st in the early morning hours of that Sunday morning.
And this part of the neighborhood is on the northern part, just north of Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood. It sits on a bluff overlooking the city. As we know, we reported over the last few weeks, this part of the neighborhood where Nancy Guthrie lives sits in the foothills of Tucson, overlooking the city.
And so we await and see what kind of news this brings. This search has lasted several hours; presumably will continue lasting (ph) caretakers or landscapers and that they do not know whose DNA that is. So that is a huge piece of evidence at this moment, as we await to see where that might lead them.
And we also know that the sheriff said that they have received tens of thousands of tips, especially after the video of the suspect on the front porch of Nancy Guthrie's home emerged several days ago.
But it is not clear whether or not a tip from that video release is what led investigators to carry out this operation here tonight in Tucson -- Ed Lavandera, CNN, Tucson, Arizona.
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ABEL: For more, I want to bring in law enforcement and litigation expert Sunny Slaughter.
Sunny, thank you for staying with us. So we have the Pima County sheriff earlier today telling Ed that they have DNA evidence.
Then we see the events in the last handful of hours, play out SWAT activity, then more federal cars arriving then the FBI deciding not to provide any information other than confirming that the activity is connected to the Guthrie case.
What is your takeaway from what's played out these last 24 hours?
SUNNY SLAUGHTER, LAW ENFORCEMENT AND LITIGATION EXPERT: So thank you for having me.
This is really significant. This is breaking news but very significant to the case. That means they are looking at something, looking at someone and looking at the evidence that they've already gathered.
It may have been from a tip. It may not have been from a tip. But what we do know is that this is a part of the investigative process. This is what must occur. They are really boots on the ground and doing what they are supposed to do.
Now there was some concern and I had the same concern about whether they're going to share this information. But apparently the FBI has decided in that this is stuff that they need to hold close to the chest.
We are likely going to see this push and pull when it comes to communication, unless they get on the same page.
But more importantly, the focus is to remain on, where Nancy Guthrie?
[04:05:04]
How can they get her and who has the best possible information to share with them about her location?
And that is the individual in the video. They've got some DNA that's not supposed to be there and that really gives them some leads. So currently they're pulling on the threads of everything they have the location and it may turn out to be nothing.
But they still have to investigate every lead. It's critical that they're doing this and we have to give them some room to do what they are doing.
ABEL: Sunny, you just mentioned that you were potentially concerned about information coming out.
What was your concern?
SLAUGHTER: The concern was that the sheriff's office, Pima sheriff's office, said that they were going to come out and have a press conference. And then there was pullback, which was directly noted in the -- what was released that the FBI wanted to hold it.
These type of missteps in communication that the public sees can also bring a little chaos and not more clarity, that they're not working well together. And this happens but we don't want it to happen front and forward in front of everyone.
So I do want the public to not be alarmed because everyone is on edge. So don't be alarmed when you hear language like that. But I do want law enforcement professionals to remain professionals, get a good crisis communication person in there and not have these missteps either.
You're going to say something or you're not. But don't put it out and then pull it back because that doesn't look like they are coordinating well together. And they need to keep those things behind the scenes and just do what they need to do and put out information that is critical so the community can help.
ABEL: Whatever has happened or is happening in this area about two miles from Nancy Guthrie's home, it required a search warrant. Right.
So what does that signify to you in terms of quality of a lead or evidence for a judge to sign off on that and allow SWAT to go there?
SLAUGHTER: So whatever they had, it required probable cause. And you cannot get probable cause and a search warrant without having some very specific information that will allow them to draft up that warrant and allow them, more importantly, for the judge to sign off on it.
So something that they know, something that they receive, something that they heard or some evidence that they've looked at was clear and concise enough for them to say, this is the probable cause that we need in order to go in to detain individuals, to look at what they have in their home.
And to, you know, get in there, get access and just do the search. The search was extensive. It is still going on right now. SWAT was involved. And that is really to clear the location and to ensure the safety of everyone that is going to go in that home.
They're looking at critical information from electronics, around food, around clothing, even if there are animals in the House, to see whether there's any trace evidence. They're looking for something in that home.
And with those cars, they might not find it but they needed the probable cause warrant that needed to be signed off on, the judge, in order to go do it. So they this didn't just happen really quickly, even though they probably have templates up ready to drop information in the warrant.
They had something probably longer than we know and they are moving on it. And that's exactly what they should be doing.
ABEL: And also Sunny, CNN drone footage showed law enforcement with flashlights, searching an area outside a home while flashes were seen inside the home, likely forensic photography.
What, if anything, can you take away from that?
SLAUGHTER: I can take away that they're doing their job and that they have to take all of these photos. They have to ensure -- and something that they saw in the house, they have said, let's go outside and look.
But either way, searches are, I've said this earlier, they're zoom in and zoom out. So you're looking at -- law enforcement is looking at what they have on the inside of the home but they should never miss looking on the outside of the home.
As people are walking down the streets, as they are moving about in the community, as they're moving about around their homes, we all might drop something. You know, people tend to discard if they smoke, they discard cigarettes, they drop papers. They drop even their DNA by touching things and sweat.
So they need to cross over from inside, outside, gather the information, take the photos -- because someone like me, later on in the litigation part of this case, is going to go through all of that to determine, if I'm working for the defense.
Did they do this properly?
Did they have this correctly?
And when they did the analysis on it.
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And they have my client, do they have the right information based on what I'm seeing in the photos and the evidence that they have collected?
All of these things are very critical. So we are looking at the investigation but, long lens, also has to consider what happens in the prosecution.
ABEL: And our teams on the ground can report that all roads have reopened and investigators have left that area, at least for the night.
Earlier, a CNN photojournalist at a fast food restaurant, about four minutes' drive away from where the major police activity is happening, captured video of the FBI taking pictures of a car in a parking lot there.
Now it's important to note CNN has not been able to confirm whether this is connected to the Guthrie case.
But given that the FBI was on scene at this Culver's restaurant as well, does that give you pause to think it may very well be connected?
Does the FBI usually join traffic stops or other police activity just because they're in the area?
SLAUGHTER: You know, this case is unusual. They could have seen something that sparked their interest just in the moment and decided, let's go ahead and get the pictures of this particular car because we are looking at 14 days now.
I think it is incumbent upon them to capture everything that they can, even if it's something that's in the moment. If it's digital, they can always go back to it. And if it turns out to be nothing, fine.
But that one incident can turn out to yield a lot of things from there later on if they get another tie-in. So --
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ABEL: We're seeing video right here --
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ABEL: -- doing something by a tire. They had a cloth up earlier as pictures were being taken in the back of this vehicle as well.
SLAUGHTER: So see that, they're looking for something very specific. And in the tires, remember the dirt and everything around Nancy Guthrie's home is unique to that area even though it might be the same type of dirt. There's something unique to that.
So they need to be looking at the tread. They're looking on the inside of the car -- of the car. And cars tend to be secondary crime scenes and that's really critical. So anything that they can glean from a car is going to be important. It will have saliva, it will have sweat. Potential DNA from blood.
But -- and anything in there that might be related to the home of Nancy Guthrie's fingerprints, so cars are really -- should be seen as secondary crime scenes. They should be really examined well.
The one thing I will say that I have not seen that I would like to see is I would like to see canines out there on -- with them. I would like to see canines moving about because they can see what the naked eye can't see. They can pick up on the scent.
And I would like to see canines around in the areas with law enforcement before law enforcement and after they leave to ensure that they're not missing anything at all.
ABEL: All right. Sunny Slaughter, really appreciate your expertise. Thank you very much.
SLAUGHTER: Thank you.
ABEL: Britain's prime minister Keir Starmer in Germany for the Munich Security Conference. Still ahead, we will listen in.
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ABEL: More breaking news out of Tucson, Arizona, where investigators have left the scene near Nancy Guthrie's home. All roads are now reopened in the area. There had been a flurry of law enforcement activity over the past several hours.
And the Sheriff's Department posting on social media just a short while ago saying, quote, "Because this is a joint investigation at the request of the FBI, no additional information is currently available."
Now the sheriff said earlier they are actively working a lead near Guthrie's home. Forensics trucks left the scene just a short time ago and the focus of intense police activity appears to be a residence that's about two miles from Guthrie's home. More than a dozen law enforcement vehicles were seen at the location.
And earlier we spoke to CNN's senior national security analyst, Juliette Kayyem, to get her reaction to reports of tension between local and federal law enforcement as they investigate Nancy's abduction.
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JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: The reporting that we're doing about some of those tensions, some of it is natural. I will tell you almost every case, you're going to see those natural tensions.
The law -- the two things put a lot of pressure here on this case. One was just -- it's a long time now. It really is. I mean, think about that every day for Savannah Guthrie and the family like, to sustain this kind of horror for that long. And so the tensions tend to play out over the time.
The second is, of course, the interest -- the media interest. I think the human interest in this, I'll tell you, I've done a lot of stories for CNN and I don't think it's voyeurism. I don't think it's bad. I think, I am amazed at how many people who aren't really don't really follow things like this will ask me about it.
What do I think?
I think there's -- I think there's just something so horrible for the family. People feel connected to Savannah Guthrie but also your own fears about something like this happening in the middle of the night.
And so I think that -- that the focus of this also adds to a lot of tension.
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ABEL: And we will have more on the investigation into the abduction of Nancy Guthrie ahead as we continue our breaking news coverage.
Other news we are following this hour, U.S. secretary of state Marco Rubio, striking a very different tone at the Munich Security Conference than vice president JD Vance did last year there.
Rubio addressed the conference about an hour ago. In echoes of what we heard before he left, Rubio said the global institutions of the old world order must be reformed and rebuilt.
It was a reference to the Trump administration's dramatic shift in how the U.S. deals with its foreign partners. But still, it was a message that stressed the importance of alliances. Contrast that with Vance last year, in which he harshly criticized Europe for relying too heavily on U.S. support.
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CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is monitoring developments in Munich and he joins us from there live.
And, Nick, everybody in this geopolitical space was really waiting to see and hear what Rubio would say during his speech there and whether it would be a continuation of last year's fiery speech from vice president Vance or something different.
This wasn't necessarily conciliatory to U.S. allies but not as harsh, either. And I found it interesting, he said "rebuilt." That would seem to imply that the U.S. relationship with allies has in some ways been torn down.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, look, I mean, you have to listen through the general positive tone or the bid to reembrace Europe.
That kind of characterized the way in which Rubio spoke. And listen to exactly what he was saying, which was essentially to say the U.S. is quite happy to rebuild the world order by itself.
It would like Europe to come with it, repeatedly suggesting how Europe should not feel shame toward its heritage, repeatedly harking back to their Christian shared values.
Now remember, in the diverse Europe that I'm standing in, that appeals to a very specific part of the political scene here, the far-right populist parties that are growing here in the host country, Germany, France next door and indeed in the United Kingdom as well.
Three key political powers. So a message that was still quite similar, really in tone, I think, almost rejecting the plea from Chancellor Friedrich Merz of Germany yesterday, that they didn't want to see modest (ph) cultural wars fought out across Europe.
Yes, Rubio didn't go there like Vance did last year by saying there's a lack of democracy, a lack of free speech falsely here in Europe. He kind of left that.
But very harsh in terms of the need for the reform in Europe, not just to be about the details of defense spending but to work out what that defense spending was about, trying to protect the values that they share.
We had a lot of talk of essentially how, while the home for the United States may be in the Western Hemisphere, I quote Rubio here, they've always been a child of Europe -- they will always be a child of Europe.
Any parent will tell you how hard a child could potentially be in home or out of him. But it's ultimately here I think a series of reminders of their shared history. But underpinning that, a recognition that there's been an enormous fissure.
Look, everybody here is still traumatized from the Greenland debacle, where president Trump threatened to use military force against what is essentially Danish territory.
So I think at two moments of nervous applause in the audience, that was probably really relief, frankly, that they weren't seeing a public drubbing occurring like last year with Vance.
But be in no doubt, underpinning Rubio's message is that things need to change and the U.S. will do it without Europe and it needs a very particular type of European values to be appealing to them. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RUBIO: Under President Trump, the United States of America will once again take on the task of renewal and restoration, driven by a vision of a future as proud, as sovereign and as vital as our civilization's past.
And while we are prepared, if necessary, to do this alone, it is our preference and it is our hope to do this together with you, our friends here in Europe, for the United States and Europe, we belong together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALSH: So be in no doubt, though, that it's, ultimately, I think, a particular type of Europe that Rubio wants to join the U.S. on this new journey. It was very harsh on the relevance of the United Nations.
But one more interesting thing Rubio did say and underpinning all discussions here is Ukraine, the biggest security crisis Europe has seen since World War II. It used to dominate proceedings here entirely and -- Zelenskyy will speak later on today.
He spoke briefly yesterday about how it's only the United States that can stop Putin with pressure. Rubio did say that, at this point, they don't know if Russia wants peace and they're testing that particular hypothesis.
It's stark, really, to hear that coming from someone at his level, from the Trump administration, where his boss, president Trump, persistently says he believes Russia wants a deal.
Indeed recently saying it's Ukraine that needed to give some ground. So a speech here, I think, that, in its tone, was trying to reassure.
But ultimately people I've been talking to here who heard it still heard the same stark criticism, demands for a cultural change in Europe -- Christian values, spiritual heritage, not being afraid of their past, closing their borders.
Very much a political message here to the opponents, frankly, of many of the European leaders who are attending this conference and are -- certainly are, I think, a moment which wasn't quite the same confrontation we saw last year.
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And that's left so many traumatized after Greenland with a sense of relief. And that's why you heard the applause.
ABEL: And it kind of adding to what you're saying about the underpinning of the tone here of Rubio's message, is there any sense that the tone that's been set this time around will change the course of the relationship at all?
Or is it because that this speech is so similar in undertones to what JD Vance had said in the year before and kind of reiterating where the U.S. stance is currently, that there's actually no shift at all and it's more of status quo that we are in right now?
WALSH: Well, I mean, remember that JD Vance's shocking speech last year subsequently became White House and essentially Pentagon national security policy. Those ideas got enshrined in black and white in the White House national security strategy.
So Rubio's coming from a pretty low base here of upsetting Europe. We've also had the trauma of Greenland. And so I think people were wondering if somebody of Rubio's past, his experience in the foreign policy establishment, would choose to throw fuel onto that fire or the embers of what happened over Greenland.
He's chosen to strike a tone about the shared history, even referring to how German technology made American beer better, trying to remind people of their shared history, how they're always intertwined.
But be in no doubt, at the core of that message he is saying, your borders are broken. You've ruined your own supply chains. Your function, your bodies no longer function. And really saying this has to be a values-based decision by Europe, if they're going to join the Trump administration rebuilding the world order.
Remember, before we got here, he said, the old world order was gone. So I think it's all about disruption. But the broader question being what comes from this practically moving forward beneath it all.
This is not a different U.S. administration here. It's just one with a salesman who's trying to present the pitch, perhaps to keep the relationships afloat, when many felt, I think, they were underwater at this point.
ABEL: And, you know, we heard -- we hear that saying time and time again, it's how you say something. So we'll see if saying it in a different way will have any change whatsoever in the relationship. Nick Paton Walsh, appreciate you. Thank you.
President Trump is sending a second aircraft carrier to the Middle East as he pushes for a nuclear deal with Iran. He says the USS Gerald Ford will join the USS Abraham Lincoln and other vessels already deployed there.
The president added he'll need those assets if the ongoing nuclear talks come up short. Mr. Trump has threatened to strike Iran if it doesn't accept a new agreement. The two countries held negotiations in Oman last week. But it's unclear when those talks will continue.
Meanwhile, the U.S. has carried out another strike on an alleged drug trafficking boat in the Caribbean. Southern Command posted this video on social media, saying the military killed three people. At least 124 people have been killed since the start of this operation.
Law enforcement activity near Nancy Guthrie's home could mean a break in the case is near. When we come back, more on the breaking developments from Tucson in the search for the 84-year-old grandmother, who's been missing for nearly two weeks. Plus, the U.S. government is now partially shut down amid
disagreements over immigration enforcement. We will tell you why this won't be like other shutdowns. Stay with us
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ABEL: Welcome back to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Brian Abel and this is CNN NEWSROOM.
We are following breaking news out of Tucson, Arizona, where there's been police activity not far from the home of Nancy Guthrie. Forensics trucks and investigators have now left the scene. And all roads have reopened.
The Sheriff's Department posted on social media just a short while ago, "Because this is a joint investigation, at the request of the FBI, no additional information is currently available."
The sheriff said earlier they are actively working a lead near Guthrie's home. The focus of the police activity, it appears to have been a residence about two miles from Guthrie's home.
More than a dozen law enforcement vehicles have been seen at the location. More developments in the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, the Pima County sheriff telling CNN, the door cam video has triggered the greatest number of leads for investigators.
And CNN's Brian Todd has more on how police are working with the FBI to crack this case.
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BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The Pima County Sheriff, in denying reports that he blocked the FBI from accessing key evidence in the Nancy Guthrie case, is also denying in an interview with CNN that there's any tension between his office and the FBI.
SHERIFF CHRIS NANOS, PIMA COUNTY, ARIZONA: The FBI and the Pima County Sheriff's Department are joined at the hips. We have done this for not years, decades.
TODD (voice over): Two law enforcement veterans tell CNN, even if there's little to no tension between the Sheriff's Office and the FBI. Make no mistake, as this case nears its third week with no signs of Nancy Guthrie, her alleged abductor, not identified and the media scrutiny unrelenting, the law enforcement teams in Arizona are feeling the heat.
CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: There's enormous pressure whenever you have a case like this especially when it's not quickly resolved.
TODD (voice over): Charles Ramsey was the D.C. police chief during the D.C. sniper case in 2002, and was part of the task force hunting the suspects. The case dragged on for more than three weeks ten people were killed, then Montgomery County, Maryland, Police Chief Charles Moose was the official leading the investigation and was its public face. The pressure on Moose as the hunt intensified was physically noticeable, especially when a child was shot and wounded.
CHARLES MOOSE, MONTGOMERY COUNTY, MARYLAND, POLICE CHIEF: Stepping over the line, shooting a kid. I guess it's going to be really, really personal now.
RAMSEY: I certainly can't speak for Chuck Moose, but you could see the stress. You could see the pressure, and everybody felt it. And I can only imagine what it had to be for him.
TODD (voice over): Former FBI Special Agent Steve Moore recalls one instance when tension inside a high-profile investigation he was involved in got personal.
STEVE MOORE, FORMER FBI SUPERVISORY SPECIAL AGENT: I was thrown out of a police chiefs office one day when I was the first FBI agent to arrive to assist in a kidnapping. Turns out that the kidnapping victim was his secretary.
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And he was personally offended that someone else would come in and try to help him solve the kidnapping of his own secretary. And I was forcefully asked to leave the building.
TODD (voice over): Fueling the tension in the Guthrie case, the celebrity factor. It's not just that a nationally renowned network anchor is at the center of it, the fact that President Trump has weighed in repeatedly, experts say, puts more pressure on investigators.
TRUMP: Ultimately, when the FBI got involved, I think you know, progress has been made.
MOORE: When the president of the United States is involved in your case, you have entered a new level of hell.
TODD (on camera): How to deal with that pressure and the internal tension in a case like this?
Both Charles Ramsey and Steve Moore say it's crucial for the leaders in the case to sit down and talk through whatever issues they have and to keep all of that away from the on-the-ground investigators so they can focus on the job -- Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ABEL: And just a few hours ago, funding for the Homeland Security Department lapsed amid disputes over money for immigration enforcement. And now the U.S. is in a partial government shutdown. But unlike previous full shutdowns, only DHS is impacted this time around.
At least 90 percent of DHS workers will remain on the job, including 93 percent of ICE and Customs and Border Protection workers. But some will not be paid.
There could be longer lines at airports. Most FEMA, Coast Guard and Secret Service employees will keep working. Now the situation will likely continue until February 23rd, at least, when Congress returns. The House minority leader slamming the Speaker for allowing members to go home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY), MINORITY LEADER: Mike Johnson has once again sent House Republicans home. This is the same approach, failed approach, that speaker Johnson and Republicans took during the 43-day Trump Republican shutdown in the fall.
It didn't work out then. It's not going to work out now. And we've drawn a hard line in the sand on behalf of the American people. And we're not going to allow the Congress to cross it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABEL: Now Democrats are in talks with the White House about their demands, which include body cameras for ICE agents and limits on the use of masks, requiring agents to follow standard warrant procedure and restrictions on roving patrols.
Natasha Lindstaedt is a professor of government with the University of Essex and joins us from Colchester, England.
Natasha, thank you, as always, for being with us. Democrats and Republicans have their talking points on this. I want to try to cut through the noise if we can and have you walk us through.
Just how did we get to this moment?
What dynamics are at play here, leading us to once again, another impasse?
NATASHA LINDSTAEDT, UNIVERSITY OF ESSEX: Well, it's interesting because the Republicans have traditionally owned the immigration issue. This was one of Trump's most popular issues and it really was what helped get him elected.
But we now see a recent poll from the Associated Press shows that Trump only has 40 percent support from the American public on the way he's handling immigration. And a lot of this has to do with what happened in Minnesota.
And there was just a swell of public resistance that proved to be incredibly effective in pushing out some of these immigration agents from Minnesota, with border czar Tom Homan and having to go to Minnesota and make this announcement. This is really a rare retreat for the Trump administration that
usually never backs down but we're seeing, with all this public resistance, the Democrats have seized this and tried to draw a line here, that there needs to be additional legislation to provide some kind of guardrails for what's going on with ICE.
And they're using public opinion polls that -- showing that most Americans are not happy with ICE. A very recent NBC poll showed that 65 percent of Americans think that ICE has gone too far; 63 percent of Americans do not want ICE agents wearing masks.
And a really interesting one was that 58 percent of Americans don't agree with the statement that law-abiding citizens have nothing to fear from ICE agents. So the Democrats are trying to seize this moment to push for reforms. But, of course, Republicans feel that they're going too far.
ABEL: Well, the most recent funding, Natasha, approved by Congress at the end of January only funded DHS for two weeks. That was supposed to give Congress the opportunity to avoid this, this shutdown by giving them time to negotiate reforms. That we now know wasn't enough time.
How much more time is needed?
How far apart are the negotiators?
LINDSTAEDT: So at the moment, the reports are that the negotiators are really far apart. They don't like each other.
[04:40:00]
It's incredibly polarized. And the Republicans think that the Democrats have too many stipulations, too many demands.
And the Democrats are responding that there's too many exceptions, that whatever deal that was provided to them, both the Senate minority leader, Chuck Schumer and Senate and House Dem, top Democrat Hakeem Jeffries, said that this deal wasn't going to work. It didn't look particularly good but they didn't provide further details as to why.
So this could go on for weeks. We know that the TSA is going to be receiving their paychecks until March. There's enough in the coffers of FEMA to at least survive one natural disaster.
But once this starts to go on for weeks and weeks and if we start to see the TSA being affected and air safety being affected, that might apply more pressure. And I think the pressure will be on the Democrats to make some kind of deal or find some kind of offramp.
ABEL: And honestly, how realistic do you think it is it that Democrats will get the ICE reforms they're seeking?
LINDSTAEDT: I don't know if it is that realistic. I think they might be able to get a few reforms. But Trump tends to not back down when it comes to legislation. And we've seen that in the past. He hasn't had a problem with these government shutdowns going on an
incredibly long time. He's fine to engage in this kind of brinkmanship that that really pushes things to the brink, with Democrats being forced to cave as they did the last time because they were worried about the impact to the air safety but also to nutritional benefits.
I mean, I don't see this being resolved in the next few weeks. But I think that there's actually more pressure on the Democrats because, even though the whole issue regarding ICE is a really important issue, the issue of affordability is much more important to Americans coming into the midterms.
And I think that there will be a handful of Democrats that will eventually have to side with the Republicans on this.
ABEL: And maybe highlighting your point here, president Trump's so- called big beautiful bill provided DHS with significant funding. We mentioned previously that an agency shutdown plan back in September showed 90 percent of the agency's employees would continue working through a lapse.
So what does that say about the true leverage Democrats have here at this point to get what they are asking for?
Is this more so a theatrical stance taking -- being taken for the party's base?
LINDSTAEDT: I mean, that's a good question. I think what they tried to do with the last shutdown, with the issue of health care, is at least inform the public of what the Trump administration was doing and how it was going to affect their constituents.
And this may be another ploy amongst the Democrats that they're trying to highlight the issues of ICE, because they've been sensing that it's unpopular and that, if they did nothing, that that would make them look worse.
And that, of course, is going to upset their base. So they're trying to at least shine a light on the issues, clarify what the reforms are that they want. But whether or not they're willing to push this and make this a hill to die on, I don't think that is likely.
I think this is more of an important issue for Trump, who sees the ICE and the immigration tactics as really a center of his campaign, which has been largely driven by Stephen Miller. So I think that it's more likely, in the end, that the Democrats are going to have to make some concessions in the Republicans.
ABEL: All right. Natasha Lindstaedt, always great to see you. Thank you.
LINDSTAEDT: Thanks for having me.
ABEL: We will be right back.
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[04:45:00]
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ABEL: A CNN investigation has revealed that the Justice Department release of the Epstein files contains unredacted videos of young women. The videos include at least one minor, who says she's just 15. CNN's MJ Lee has our report.
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MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL ENTERPRISE CORRESPONDENT: (voice-over): Unredacted videos of young women that CNN has censored here are among the millions of Jeffrey Epstein related files released by the Justice Department. An extensive CNN review of the Epstein files uncovered at least seven videos featuring unredacted women
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi from Deauville.
LEE (voice-over): This girl dressed in a bikini and heels, seemingly doing a model walk, says she is just 15 years old.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, my name is (INAUDIBLE). I'm 15 years old. I'm (INAUDIBLE) centimeters long and I'm from Riga, Latvia.
LEE (voice-over): It was only after CNN inquired about them that a DOJ spokesperson said Thursday the videos in question have been removed and are being reviewed for appropriate redactions.
This error message is now in the videos place. One of the videos included brief nudity when a young woman pulls up her shirt to expose her breasts after singing happy birthday.
The publication of these videos risked the potential revictimization of women who may have been abused by Epstein years ago. It was also in violation of the DOJ stated criteria on what information would be redacted in the Epstein files in order to protect the victims.
TODD BLANCHE, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: To protect victims, we redacted every woman depicted in any image or video with the exception of Ms. Maxwell. We did not redact images of any men unless it was impossible to redact the woman without also redacting the man.
LEE (voice-over): Like so many other Epstein files, these videos are not accompanied by any information providing context about them, including who these women are, who took the videos, or the date that they were taken.
The DOJ has also faced fierce criticism for other improper redactions in the Epstein files, including publishing victims' names, birthdays and addresses, and the over-redaction of information about individuals who may have helped Epstein.
REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): Your Department of Justice initially released nude photographs and even the identities of Jane Does, who had been protected for decades until your department released their names.
LEE (voice-over): Attorney General Pam Bondi was grilled this week by lawmakers in a contentious hearing and vowed that the DOJ was acting quickly to correct any mistakes.
PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL: If someone's name was redacted, we said right away was not redacted and should have been meaning a victim. We went back and redacted it. We're doing everything we can based on the tight timeframe and over 3 million pages that we released that Donald Trump signed for pure transparency.
LEE (voice-over): M.J. Lee, CNN, Washington, D.C.
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ABEL: We want to take you back to the Munich Security Conference. CNN's chief international anchor Christiane Amanpour moderating a panel with British prime minister Keir Starmer and European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen. Let's listen in now.
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KEIR STARMER, U.K. PRIME MINISTER: It falls to us as leaders to recognize that.
[04:50:00]
To change and strengthen Europe, which is what I'm arguing for, what Ursula is arguing for, and not just say that but follow it with actions. And Ursula has taken the lead on this in the work that she's done, particularly on the funding of the defense work that needs to be done.
Because we will only be able to preserve NATO in the way it is needed for the next 80 years if we change and strengthen the European dimension. That is something which a number of American presidents have said for some time, I believe to be true.
And I think we've got to seize this moment to move forward, not to pull apart the transatlantic relationship but to make sure it works in the circumstances and the times that we face.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Now I know you want to embrace the United States. You talked about not overly dependent but not also rejecting the U.S.
But you know that the Munich Security Conference doctrine, before this conference began, talked about an era of demolition politics, demolition men, the politics of destruction, including referencing the president of the United States.
A very key American -- former Republican he calls himself -- analyst has said that America is, under Trump, is playing a role of a hostile and probably, possibly predatory power as well.
So Europe is called -- caught between a predatory Russia and a potentially predatory United States.
Have you internalized that?
And is that where you are right now in terms of these fighting words that you've just delivered about pretty much total independence?
Do you believe that you are between two predatory powers?
URSULA VON DER LEYEN, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN COMMISSION: There are more threats. First of all, I would not -- never, never align Russia with the United States; completely different theaters.
But
AMANPOUR: These are not my words. These were an analyst.
VON DER LEYEN: Yes. OK. So I would not at all confer with this analyst that there is any equidistance between Russia and the United States very clearly.
But, of course, the European Union is challenged with superpowers that are outreaching much more than they used to and many other threats. And Russia is a real threat to us without any question.
So this is the reason why we have to strengthen our own defense posture, why we have to look into the possibilities that we have, for example, with the Article 42.7, while we have to develop our defense industrial base so independence is action, also, to be stronger.
This also is on the economic side, very clearly diversifying with like-minded partners. Yes, the trade agreement we have with Mercosur. So the Latin American countries, Mexico.
All this is within a strategy to be more independent, more stronger. And independent means to stand up, develop your own strength, be clear with your own weaknesses. Don't look at others to compensate for your own weaknesses. No, be strong. Stand up and develop your own strengths.
And be open to the world and connect with like-minded partners. And, of course, a friend and like-minded partner always has been and is the U.K. on our continent.
AMANPOUR: So prime minister, you laid out how Britain has come to the defense and to the joint military action with its allies for a long time.
But the current secretary general of NATO, after Trump's Davos speech, actually after prime minister Carney's speech, which talked about a, you know, a rupture, he said if you all are thinking that you can do what you have to do without the United States, then dream on. It's not going to happen.
So how long do you think it will take to get to this posture that you both say you need to get to?
STARMER: Well, the first thing I'd say is that we're not looking at a future that tears us apart from the Euro-Atlantic alliance that we have. NATO has been the single most effective and successful military alliance the world has ever known. And we should never move away from it.
I often and always base my thinking on what is the reality on the ground. And the reality on the ground, so far as the U.K. is concerned, is we are working with the U.S. on defense security and intelligence 24/7, every single day. So that is the reality of --
(AUDIO GAP)
STARMER: -- as tight now as it's ever been. And I see no sign of that weakening, nor should it, because that's in the interests of the United Kingdom and the interests of Europe and globally.
And that goes into defense, security, intelligence, obviously nuclear capability as well. And therefore I'm often urged back in my own Parliament that we should walk away from what we've got. And I reject that.
[04:55:00]
But I think simply sitting where we are isn't good enough. And therefore the change does need to come. That needs Europe to be stronger, to be working more closely together. And that's why I said what I said about the U.K.-E.U. relationship.
We're 10 years on from Brexit. We are not the Britain of the Brexit years. We're a Britain that wants to work with the E.U. even more closely in light of the challenge that we face here 10 years on.
That will take time. We are working together. We had a very good U.K.- E.U. summit last year. We will have another one this year, where we can make further steps forward. But this is of some urgency because I think that, on defense and security, we -- until the Ukraine conflict, we didn't really wake up to the reality that we're facing.
AMANPOUR: And I actually do obviously want to dig into Ukraine because you raised it very clearly toward the beginning of your speech. But you also said and I want to get to the bottom of this, that some red lines have been crossed and they cannot be uncrossed.
You're talking about the United States in your in your speech. I think.
What red lines are you talking about?
Because there is a massive deficit of trust between many people in the alliance and certainly leaders, who are now having to do what you're doing -- workarounds, de-risking, decoupling, whatever you might want to call it, independence.
What red lines have been crossed that cannot be uncrossed? VAN DER LEYEN: So for example, I want to be very clear. Our digital sovereignty is our digital sovereignty. Very clear on that one.
(APPLAUSE)
VAN DER LEYEN: And we have a long tradition in freedom of speech. Actually, the enlightenment started on our continent. And we are very clear with digital sovereignty, also that what is forbidden offline is forbidden online. And we will not flinch what that is concerned. We will be very steadfast to pursue this very clear demand for us but --
ABEL: Our Christiane Amanpour, moderating a panel at the Munich Security Conference. We'll go back there for more coverage in the next hour. Thank you for joining us. I'm Brian Abel. I'll be right back with you after this short break.
