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Source: U.S.-Iran Talks Stalled, Not Over Yet; The True Cost Of The Iran War; White House Shifts Two Major Department Of Education Programs; New Voting Map Erases Tennessee's Only Black-Majority District; Supreme Court Has Major Cases To Decide Ahead Of Summer Break. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired June 21, 2026 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thank you so much for joining me today. I am Danny Freeman. And before we go, a very happy Father's Day not only to my father, Steve, but to all the fathers out there. Thank you for all that you do for all of us. "CNN Newsroom" continues with Omar Jimenez right now.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to the "CNN Newsroom," everyone. I'm Omar Jimenez in New York. New tonight, face- to-face talks between the United States and Iran stalled after President Donald Trump threatened Iran and its delegates over the Strait of Hormuz.

According to Fox News, the president shared this message for Iranian officials. Quote -- "You close it and you won't have a country" and -- quote -- "You won't even make it back to your effing country." Iran's chief negotiator responded by saying Trump's message showed -- quote -- "a level of desperation" -- end quote.

But an Iranian source says the negotiations aren't over yet and back channel talks are still underway. Officials from Iran and the U.S., including Vice President J.D. Vance, are in Switzerland for negotiations after that interim agreement was signed earlier this week. That signing started a 60-day clock, giving negotiators more time to iron out thornier issues like Iran's nuclear program. Yesterday, Iran said it was closing the Strait of Hormuz after alleging Israel violated a ceasefire by attacking Lebanon.

So, a lot to get to here. We're covering this from all around the world. CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson joins us now from Switzerland and CNN correspondent Julia Benbrook has the latest from the White House. But Nick, I want to start with you. We talked about sort of the current status of these negotiations. Where do things stand now?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, there has even been video of Iranian state media saying what they say were the Iranian delegation vehicles leaving the hotel high up on the mountainside there. It's not clear if they were -- where they were going or what they were doing. I think the place we're at the moment and we're in a very interesting moment because there is almost no information coming out from the talks, the sources that were giving us a sense of what was happening several hours ago have gone quiet, and I think that speaks to the likelihood that the diplomatic behind the scenes efforts by the mediators, by Pakistani officials have become so familiar with that Iranian interlocutors, and the Qatar is the same with the Iranians trying to convince them to stay at the talks and work this out around the table.

But the reality seems to be that the Iranians feel that they have a strong position. Of course, they came into these talks wanting to get a ceasefire on Lebanon, and they closed the Strait of Hormuz as part of their leverage, a diplomatic stick to bring in this meeting, if you will, and they've really taken very badly President Trump's language given that the vice president spoke about working through diplomacy and a new peace in the Middle East and a new relationship between the United States and the people of Iran that was really aspirational, President Trump's message at the opposite end of the spectrum.

So, what we've heard from the leader of the Iranian delegation, Mohammad Ghalibaf, speaker of the parliament there, he has put out on Twitter, don't you think that if you -- you know, don't you think about your words that if they were going to work, we wouldn't be in this position now? Be careful about what you say. You know, our military, our army can make a response.

So, the language coming from the Iranian stuff, look, this may take a little time quite simply because these seven people who have come from Iran here, these mediators and other personnel, negotiators and other personnel are not the whole political spectrum picture. They're likely going to want to reach back to Tehran, consult with other political, military figures, religious figures there before they decide what to do. That may take a bit of time. They may want to use secure lines.

JIMENEZ: Highlighting the complex nature of these negotiations that we will expect to see in the coming weeks if they continue. I want to bring in Julia, though, on that point because, clearly, the president's comments throwing a wrench in the delicate process that was being made in Switzerland. What else are we hearing from the president today?

JULIA BENBROOK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, according to sources familiar with the talks, in addition to the focus on Iran's nuclear program, the fate of its stockpile of highly-enriched uranium, other key areas of discussion include the Strait of Hormuz and the conflict in Lebanon. And those are two areas that President Donald Trump has been weighing in on. He has been posting, he has been doing phone interviews.

[17:04:57]

And starting with one of his posts this morning, he said Iran must immediately stop their highly paid proxies in Lebanon for causing trouble, adding, if they don't, we'll hit Iran very hard, just like we did last week, only harder. The renewed fighting in Lebanon has already tested this memorandum of understanding as Iran has said that it has once again closed the Strait of Hormuz. They said that earlier in the weekend. They cited an Israeli violation of the ceasefire.

And Trump commented on that as well, saying that the Strait of Hormuz, the United States could just take it over and charge tolls themselves. He also appeared to threaten the Iranian delegation. He did this in an interview with Fox News. It was about a 20-minute phone call. I want to pull that up. This was exactly as Fox reported his comments. He said, you close it, referring to the Strait of Hormuz there, and you won't have a country, adding, you won't even make it back to your effing country.

All of these comments coming as his negotiating team is there in Switzerland led by Vice President J.D. Vance, special envoy Steve Witkoff, and Trump's own son-in-law, Jared Kushner. So, they're all there, a part of this, for about one to two days there, and then technical teams would remain working on those details.

He put out that timeline before there was this stall in some of those conversations. But he had an optimistic view this morning, saying that he believed that great progress had been made. He also looked to set expectations, saying that he does not think that they're going to work through every disagreement immediately. This was before Trump made those comments. But take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: What today really represents is the beginning of a technical negotiation that's not going to solve every disagreement, but is going to allow us to sit together as teams for the first time really in history to figure out what matters most to the respective parties, to settle those issues, to solve those issues, and get to a better tomorrow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BENBROOK: So, as he says there, there is a lot to work through. A reminder that this memorandum of understanding, the agreement that has been signed, in many ways, is just a first period to work some of the details. These talks happening are full. And then, again, potentially, the technical teams would stay around and work through more specifics.

JIMENEZ: And I mean just the past 12 hours showing again how fragile these talks can be. Nic Robertson in Lucerne, Julia Benbrook at the White House, appreciate you both.

I want to expand the scope here in terms of how we talk about this and bring in CNN global affairs commentator Sabrina Singh. She served as deputy Pentagon press secretary during the Biden administration. So, Sabrina, I guess I want to get your take on how you are seeing this. Do you see this as talks already starting to fall apart or is this more just posturing on both sides here?

SABRINA SINGH, CNN POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR, FORMER DEPUTY PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: I think that remains to be seen. I think the president's comments earlier today were wildly unhelpful and put additional tension on these talks that are very high stakes right now with Vice President Vance being there.

I think what I'm looking for is can Qatar and the two sides, the U.S. and Iran, keep these talks on track? I mean, the president's comments threatened to derail them, but they haven't yet. We know that Iran has put out -- their leaders have put out statements pushing back on the president's comments that, quite frankly, not only are they not helpful, it goes back to that old, you know, saying that we kind of know from school, it's like think before you speak. This is like think before you tweet or post or put something on X.

These high-level talks are already so fragile. So, I'm not exactly sure why the president is deciding to do this. But let's see if Pakistan and Qatar can keep the talks on track and have another day or two of negotiations continue.

JIMENEZ: And just to play a little devil's advocate here, do you think President Trump's rhetoric could actually help when dealing with this Iranian regime? And I say that because I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, you've argued before that Iran wants to draw this negotiation timeline out.

SINGH: They definitely want to draw this negotiation timeline out. I mean, that is a tactic of theirs. That is something that works in their interest. But in terms of, you know, does rhetoric like this help the negotiations, we've seen the president time and again do this throughout the war and, you know, threatening to annihilate a civilization when it comes to Iran.

That rhetoric actually has not helped. If you look at the proof points, it really comes down to what is at hand here, which is opening the Strait of Hormuz. I mean, Iran is saying that the Strait is closed. These negotiations are to open the Strait and then, of course, push the thorniest issue to later on.

So, the president's words and, you know, these threats, I don't think it helps these negotiations right now, especially when you have the vice president there.

[17:09:59]

And these are so technical, so high level. You know, you really want to ensure that there's a conducive environment for negotiations to take place. I just don't think threats like this over social media really help.

JIMENEZ: And, as you point out, look, there are a lot of interests and phases going on here. We've got this memorandum of understanding signed to open this 60-day period for negotiations. At the moment, a lot of the back and forth seems to just be over the Strait of Hormuz and making sure a ceasefire holds in Lebanon. And then that would potentially get all sides to that nuclear deal aspect of this.

And so just from your perspective and experience, do you think a full nuclear deal or agreement in any form in the next two or so months is possible when it seems these negotiations are still getting so easily snagged on issues like Lebanon and the Strait of Hormuz?

SINGH: You know, I think if you look at history and look at how the Obama Iran deal came together, that took nearly two years and you had very skilled negotiators at the table going back and forth with Iran. Right now, Iran is in a very different place than they were in 2015. They have an economic leverage that they didn't have back then, and that is being able to close the Strait of Hormuz.

On top of that, you also have Israel essentially saying that they are going to continue to conduct operations in Lebanon if they feel that their own security is threatened. So that really leaves a wide gap for Israel to continue to conduct military operations which, as we know, and is that first point in this MOU that says the ceasefire applies to Lebanon.

So, you know, Iran is coming to the table on stronger footing than they were -- than they were before this war even started because they can maintain some type of control over the Strait of Hormuz.

And, you know, despite the fact that, you know, either side, the United States can message and saying that the strait is open, Iran can message and say that the strait is open or closed, it's ultimately the shipping companies that will decide if the strait is open and if they feel comfortable sailing through the strait.

JIMENEZ: Yes. Highlighting another layer of process that would need to happen for operations to resume, and then that dynamic would need to hold as well. Sabrina Singh, really appreciate you being here. Thanks for taking the time.

SINGH: Thanks, Omar.

JIMENEZ: All right. Stay with us. We've got a lot more ahead on the negotiations happening in Switzerland. Plus, we're going to take a look at just how much this war has already cost taxpayers as inflation and gas prices take a toll on everyday Americans. And then Tennessee Republicans managed to push through a new congressional map, diluting the only majority Black district around Memphis. It got a lot of voters there that we talked to. Not happy about it. We'll take you there soon. You're in the "CNN Newsroom." (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:15:00]

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JIMENEZ: The Iran war has had a very real cost for American consumers who have already been struggling to recover from the rising inflation dating back to the COVID pandemic. And there is no more painful reminder of the higher prices than every time you drive past the gas station. Regular gas prices still higher than they were before the war and the blockade of the Strait of Hormuz. Diesel alone has cost an additional $27 billion, which will eventually trickle down to the price of goods. And then at the end of the day, wages aren't keeping up with the rising inflation.

So, I want to bring in Caleb Hammer. He hosts "Financial Audit" on YouTube and is the CEO of Dollarwise. He has been described as a cross between Dave Ramsey and Jerry Springer. I will let you fact check that, see how you feel on it.

But when it comes to getting your personal finances in line and, you know, Caleb, you see these headlines about Americans struggling with their credit card debts, now $1.25 trillion, according to the New York Federal Reserve Bank, what do you see people spending on that isn't quite working? Like what are the biggest mistakes that you find people are making?

CALEB HAMMER, HOST OF "FINANCIAL AUDIT," CEO OF DOLLARWISE: Well, the reality is 40 percent of Americans right now can't even cover $400 emergency. Yet when I look into the data and I look into their spending on my show specifically which are the people messing up, to be clear, but usually those people who can't afford that $400 emergency, they're still going into the gas station, grabbing an energy drink every day, stopping somewhere to eat multiple times a day, door dashing at a 90 percent premium to their house.

Those conveniences that are small but really add up the death of a thousand cuts is really hurting the household budget at the end of the day. And, of course, they're putting them on credit cards, which have a close to average interest rate across the country of around 22 percent. Imagine that compounding on a monthly basis when you're still putting unnecessary spending on it. It just becomes an uncontrollable mess in the end.

JIMENEZ: And, you know, like everyone could be better with their personal habits. You know, I'm sure we could go through each of ours and find like, oh, well, why are you spending this much on this, this much on that? How much of this is compounded by some of the systemic issues that we're running into right now like inflation and especially since the COVID pandemic?

[17:20:00]

HAMMER: Yes, systemic issues certainly play an impact on everything. The thing to ask yourself in the end and when I talk to people about their budgets is, can you control the systemic issues or not? You can go cast a vote and you can advocate for a position. Child care, for example, it rivals now a college degree or a college tuition. And if you put two children together, it's more than the median cost of rent in any state in this country. These are systemic issues.

But in the end, what you do have control over on a daily basis is where you choose to spend your money, whether or not you get that two- bedroom if you don't need it. There are a lot of personal choices that impact your absolute daily life when you can't control whether or not we go into a rant. Sorry, not going to happen for the average person. I didn't really get a say in that one on that day. But you can control your daily spending. And that's why we created Dollarwise, the budgeting app, so people could control their daily spending. JIMENEZ: You know, I think there's a tendency always from older generations to sort of look and -- look down and say, hey, you know, when I was coming up, I was able to buy a house by 25 and start a family and, you know, different world, different world, but it happens. And I just wonder, what do you think older Americans should know about what Gen Z and Gen Alpha coming soon are facing and what's different for them that maybe previous generations didn't have to deal with as much?

HAMMER: Yes, there's a couple of things the older generations get right and a couple of things they get wrong. The reality is to get in the median price home, the household has to make a hundred twenty thousand dollars in this country. Some spots are going to be higher, some are lower, but that is the median. That is double. The monthly income required is now $3,120 on a monthly basis. Ownership costs that alone, which has doubled since 2020. That is not something an older generation had to deal with.

But something the older generation is right about is the cost of most things in our lives as a percentage of our income has actually gone down outside of a few key areas. The key areas where it is not is buying a home, health care, pretty important, and the cost of school also pretty important. But as far as things like groceries, even going out to eat, many of the dopamine fueling things that we like to chase as a percentage of our income, they have actually gone down.

So, there's a lot of things that are better about living in the current times as a younger person, but there are objectively some things that are worse that the older generations need to realize. But, of course, it was the older generations that put in the zoning restrictions that we have across this country that made the homes go up in value the way they have. So, I guess we have them to thank for that.

JIMENEZ: You just gave some parents and grandparents some valuable ammunition on this Father's Day. So, just hats off to that. You know, we were talking about sort of the simple things or maybe not so simple, but every day by buying and purchases that might actually make a difference in someone's budget. What are you telling people to write out some of the problems that are hopefully temporary like, for example, high gas prices?

HAMMER: Yes. I mean, you -- there -- that is a reality. If you're not in an electric car, you have to write out the high gas prices. But what you do have control over in the end is the car that you get. And we know in America that people get more car than they need. They spend way more on a car than they need on a newer car to justify it with safety ratings, fuel efficiency which can be beneficial right now, but they still get into a 50, 60 thousand-dollar car on an eight-year term at 12 percent interest, and it absolutely destroys their household budget.

It just doesn't work in the end. Yes, in America, we need a car to have a job to pay for our car. That is a reality. That is the infrastructure that we live in. But you do have the choice on how much car you get. And get it checked out by multiple mechanics before you sign that deal. Make sure you're not getting any predatory interest rate, but you still have the choice on the car that you get, which is a big determining factor on your monthly budget, even if you can't actually choose between the gas prices.

JIMENEZ: How would -- you know, you're talking about doing so much work on the front end, which obviously sounds great on paper and advice. Some people, I think, just get in there and just, you know, get me the quickest thing as possible so that I can get out and do what I need to do. How would you compare sort of the risk factor of delinquencies on pay on payments, for example, that maybe they didn't quite think out versus the work on the front end in terms of cost?

HAMMER: Well, if you're not willing to put in the work on the front end for pretty much anything, you're going to face consequences for it.

[17:24:58]

And when you have delinquencies and whatnot, if you have that affecting your credit, that impacts everything down the line. The next time you get a car, you're going to be getting like 20 percent interest rate and you're going to be getting something predatory. You won't be approved for anything beyond that. You're not going to get an interest-free period on a credit card transfer, most likely. You are going to always be in a harder time. Get an apartment, you're not just putting down a security deposit, you're also going to be putting down first month, last month.

So, the question is basically on anything you do when it comes to taking out a debt is you really need to understand your budget. You need to plug everything into something like Dollarwise, understand where your money is already going, how much you can afford or else you will end up in those defaults or delinquencies.

But before you ever miss a payment or allow it to actually go there, make sure you call your creditor first. There are many options. Even on that vehicle like we were talking about, they can take that payment and put it on the end. And they'll do that for a few of them. They will before they come and repo your car because they actually make more money in the end. That's just more time for interest to accrue.

Even on credit cards, they'll put you on a lower interest payment -- lower payment plan as well for a while. They want their money. If you default, they sell it for pennies on the dollars. Many of them will work, they will work with you, but you have to call them first.

JIMENEZ: Caleb Hammer, host of "Financial Audit" on YouTube, CEO of Dollarwise, good to see you. Thanks for being here. And if you watch his YouTube, this was the least direct, most calm version of the conversation that I think I've seen you have. But I -- but I appreciate you taking the time.

HAMMER: Thank you. JIMENEZ: All right. Coming up, two of the most important jobs at the Department of Education are about to get outsourced. We'll talk about it, coming up. You're in the "CNN Newsroom."

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[17:30:00]

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JIMENEZ: The Trump administration is taking a new major step in fulfilling the president's campaign promise of dismantling the Department of Education. The agency is offloading two of its primary responsibilities. It's shifting special education to the Department of Health and Human Services and handing off civil rights enforcement in schools to the Department of Justice. Education Secretary Linda McMahon says the changes will be more helpful for families of kids with disabilities.

But advocates worry it will harm the processing of discrimination complaints and treat disabilities as a medical condition to be treated instead of a learning difference. Some parent groups are also concerned about Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. overseeing special education programs because of his past controversial statements about autism.

So, I want to bring in Margaret Spellings, former education secretary under President George W. Bush and the president and CEO of the Bipartisan Policy Center. Thank you for taking the time. I just -- from your perspective, can you explain to us why this move by the Department of Education is so significant?

MARGARET SPELLINGS, FORMER EDUCATION SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH, CEO OF BIPARTISAN POLICY CENTER: Well, they really deal with some very, very important programs that have been authorized in a very bipartisan way for many, many years. The special education programs, as you say, are focused on education of those kids, not the health dimensions. They're important, too.

But we know that so many students are diagnosed with very correctable education differences like dyslexia, autism, many of those things where students can really maximize their full potential and live a very prosperous and successful life. And so, I sure hope we won't throw the baby out with the bathwater because these kids, like all of our students, really need a commitment to their achievement. And, you know, when we look at the data in our country right now, we are not in a good place really with any student population. That includes, of course, special ed students.

On the civil rights side of the aisle, having run the place, I know that the issues that schools and universities deal with like bullying or sexual assault on campus or inappropriate conduct by adults and so forth, really, I wonder, as a matter of priority in the Justice Department, where will those things fall?

And so, when you think of these things and, frankly, they've been authorized by the Congress for many years, doesn't it make a lot more sense to have a one stop shop for schools and families than to have programs scattered throughout the federal government in ways where these programs are not the state admission of those other agencies.

JIMENEZ: You know, to one of your earlier points talking about where education is or student performances in the country right now, you know, every day makes a difference. Any impact to children in school and their abilities to be in school can make a huge difference in that experience. And I just wonder how you see delays or changes to these individualized education plans impacting children with disabilities in the short and long term.

SPELLINGS: Well, there's just mass confusion. And, you know, the parent community associated with special needs and special education students, and that's a very broad range of issues with the population that we're talking about, is an active and engaged parent community. They know their rights. They understand and have urgent, you know, requirements to have their kids served and as quickly as possible. And so, I sure do hope that that kind of priority, that kind of focus, you know, doesn't go away.

And I would also say that, you know, things that are done by executive order certainly can be undone just as quickly.

[17:35:02] So, families are really getting, you know, whiplash, trying to figure out what's going on and what might be the future case of these -- of these programs.

JIMENEZ: You know, current education secretary, Linda McMahon, has said parenting -- partnering with HHS will -- quote -- "align federal services to improve academic outcomes, strengthen access to programs and information, and support people with disabilities." What would you say to the current education secretary?

SPELLINGS: Well, I'd like to see some evidence of that. You know, there hasn't been a lot of input either from the education community, parents, educators or the Congress with respect to these programs. So, you know, here's what we know for sure, that our students and their achievement lag badly post-COVID. We've not recovered. And so, I'd like to see plans that were more focused on bringing that achievement up, partnering with states.

You know, we know how to use the federal role in a way that's more effective. How do we know that? Through our national education Report card? And for about, you know, 13 to 14 years or so, we were going in the right direction, closing those gaps for every single student group, including special needs students. And we have lagged. And so, I would hope that our commitment is around evidence-based things that really work to the benefit of students and not, you know, bureaucratic slicing and dicing across the federal government.

JIMENEZ: And, as you point out, you've hit on a number of different reasons. There are concerns across the board in a variety of spaces. Some advocates have said that HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.'s past comments about autism make him specifically unfit to oversee special education. Does he concern you at all in this?

SPELLINGS: I don't know Secretary Kennedy. I do know that the number one mission of HHS is running massive programs, CDC, CMS. And given his comments and where these issues might rank with respect to their overall and very urgent remit, I wonder if these programs are going to get the attention, whether these students and their parents are going to get the attention that they deserve.

JIMENEZ: It is a critical space to watch. Margaret Spellings, I really appreciate you taking the time and sharing your perspective. Thanks for being here.

SPELLINGS: Thank you very much.

JIMENEZ: All right. Coming up for us, summer vacation is almost here for the nine justices on the Supreme Court, but they have several major cases left for them to rule on. You're in the "CNN Newsroom." We'll talk about it, coming up.

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[17:40:00]

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JIMENEZ: The only democratic majority district in Tennessee is officially no more. The state has adopted a new voting map that splits the district into three republican-leaning districts. The republican majority redrew the state congressional map to dilute the power -- the voting power of the Black majority city of Memphis.

CNN's Jason Carroll went to Memphis, sebastian of the civil rights movement, to hear from its residents.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Weekend football in Memphis is usually about competition and fun. Today, spectators have a lot more on their minds.

CASSANDRA VANN, GRANDMOTHER: There have been great sacrifices people have made in order to get us here. So, it just seems like that is part of our voice as a Black community.

ANTOINE SMITH, MEMPHIS POLICE OFFICER, FOOTBALL COACH: Everybody has been upset about it. Everybody has been emotional about it.

CARROLL (voice-over): Even if they're rooting for different teams, many here are on the same side when it comes to redistricting.

SMITH: It's very disheartening. We don't have the same vested interest with somebody who's 200 miles away from here.

CARROLL (voice-over): Here's what happened. State Republicans redrew the congressional map, taking the old ninth district, the state's last remaining Black majority district, and breaking it into three new districts, 5, 8 and 9, that stretch far beyond Memphis, diluting a once democratic stronghold, upsetting not only many of the city's Black residents.

JILL ELASINGAME, MEPHIS RESIDENT: I'm still in nine.

CARROLL: OK.

ELASINGAME: But they are in eight now.

CARROLL: Across the street.

ELASINGAME: Across the street.

CARROLL (voice-over): The newly redrawn district splits Jill Elasingame's neighborhood right down the middle of her street.

ELASINGAME: It's just unnecessary. Memphis is a predominantly Black city. To take that power away from the citizens, very suspicious.

CARROLL: Suspicious. What do you think is behind it? What do you think is motivating it?

ELASINGAME: Racism, obviously.

CARROLL (voice-over): Republican lawmakers argue the move has nothing to do with race.

UNKNOWN: Maps were drawn to maximize the potential republican partisan advantage.

UNKNOWN: Are you aware that Memphis is predominantly African-American?

UNKNOWN: I am not.

(LAUGHTER)

UNKNOWN: This map was drafted based on politics, based on population, and the opportunity for the first time in history for us to send an entire republican delegation from Tennessee to represent the state in Washington, D.C.

CARROLL (voice-over): The new districts now break up Memphis's Black community, one which has played a historic role in the civil rights movement.

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[17:45:00]

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It's a community where some are fighting back in a traditional southern way from the pulpit.

LAWRENCE TURNER, SENIOR PASTOR, THE BOULEVARD CHRISTIAN CHURCH: Memphis and Shelby County are facing one of the most significant political shifts in recent history. We need massive voter turnout in August and in November.

(APPLAUSE)

CARROLL: Religious leaders know here in Memphis, if you want to reach the Black community, this is the place you've got to do it.

CARROLL (voice-over): Pastor Lawrence Turner took the state of Tennessee to court. Through his organization, the Black Clergy Collaborative, he joined a federal lawsuit to try and block the redrawn map.

CARROLL: Can we grab you now?

TURNER: Yes. When you crack the ninth district in Tennessee, you took away the right of those who live in this community to choose who represents them. And so, they could say this is gerrymandering based upon party, but it's obvious you target a city like Memphis, which is one of the blackest cities in the country, and break up the only black and blue congressional district in this state. It's clearly not partisan, it's racial.

CARROLL (voice-over): Chances of a federal judge blocking the new map before the midterms are slim, but the Black community could still deliver a record turnout. Parishioners such as Brittney Williams say she and others like her feel motivated to vote.

BRITTNEY WILLIAMS, PARISHIONER: People suppress what they're afraid of. And I think they realized that when the Black community comes together, we're always going to work hard to fight, to make sure that not only do we have the right but everybody has the right.

UNKNOWN: Green light. Red light.

CARROLL (voice-over): Miles away, the message resonated with the Chisolm family. Jasmine Chisolm is the great, great granddaughter of Birdia Keglar, a civil rights activist who, in 1966, was killed in a suspicious car accident after returning from a civil rights meeting.

JASMINE CHISOLM, MEMPHIS RESIDENT: My children, it's up to us to teach them about great grandma Berdia Keglar. It's up to us to teach them about stuff like this, about how people lost their lives to vote because they're not learning at this school no more.

CARROLL: Do you feel a special sense of responsibility given, you know, your family's history and being involved in the civil rights movement?

CHISOLM: I do.

CARROLL: Is that a lot of --

CHISOLM: I do. If you want to see a change, your voice matters. In order for them to understand us as an age group, we have to get out and make a stand and vote.

CARROLL (voice-over): It's a fight they pray will ultimately end in some sort of justice.

UNKNOWN: This is a picture of her right here. They named the highway after her. The fire, the fight is coming back at us. We have to continue to fight, not give up.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JIMENEZ: Jason Carroll, thank you for that report. We'll be right back.

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[17:50:00]

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JIMENEZ: The U.S. Supreme Court is nearing the end of a pivotal term. Justices are expected to release some major rulings before their summer recess, among them birthright citizenship, possible limitations on mail-in voting, and President Trump's attempt to fire Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook.

I want to bring in Nina Totenberg. She's NPR's legal affairs correspondent. Nina, I just want to start with birthright citizenship. Obviously, a lot of attention on this. President Trump signed an executive order to eliminate this right. What is the legal argument that the administration is making?

NINA TOTENBERG, LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT, NPR: Well, the president says that the founders never expected there to be birthright citizenship, that they only meant it to be really for slaves and the descendants of slaves. Now, one would have to say -- and he also says that no other country in the world does this. In fact, 33 countries have birthright citizenship.

And every historian I've talked to says that the founders of the 14th Amendment, the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment, intended very much for this to be more than slaves, that we were at that point a country that wanted immigrants, lots of immigrants, because we had this huge country that we needed to populate. And, in fact, there's a reference in the -- I think it was the Declaration of Independence about the necessity for immigrants.

So, I thought he was on pretty shaky ground at the Supreme Court, but he didn't get a lot of -- my sense of it was that the court was going to rule against him. And he does keep saying they're going to rule against me. So, he has some notion of that.

That is not true for most of the remaining cases. I suspect the administration will win most of the remaining cases, including the Lisa Cook case, which is involving -- well, I actually don't think they'll win the Lisa Cook case, but they'll win the other major case with it, which is that the president has insisted that contrary to what the legislation is and has been the law of this land since the 1930s, that independent agencies were quasi-legislative, quasi- executive agencies, and that the agencies were supposed to have a certain degree of independence and the people who ran them could not be fired at will but only for cause, for bad conduct.

[17:55:24]

And I think this court, this very conservative court, has been looking for -- has been building up to getting rid of that precedent and making independent agency heads fireable at will. That will make the independent agencies no longer independent. They'll be subject to the executive branch. Lisa Cook is the Federal Reserve. That's a little different.

JIMENEZ: Sorry. Not to cut you off but just because you were touching on Lisa Cook and, obviously, it's going to be a really important aspect of what we're waiting for the Supreme Court here. But I also just wanted to ask you just about -- the court is also reviewing state laws that allow mail-in ballots to be received after Election Day. And, obviously, it impacts so many people who are going to go to the midterms ballot boxes. Is this a state issue or where does the federal jurisdiction sort of come in there?

TOTENBERG: The court -- the question in this case is really, what is the election? Is it Election Day or can there be a grace period as long as your ballot is postmarked by Election Day? And most states in one way or another have a provision that says there's a grace period as long as your ballot is marked on or before Election Day.

And in this case, the Republican National Committee argues that, no, it has to be on the actual day of election that your ballot is received. If you -- even if it's postmarked two days before, if you come two days afterwards, it doesn't count. And we don't know how these cases are going to turn out.

JIMENEZ: Of course.

TOTENBERG: But the court at oral argument seemed pretty suspicious of the notion that anything beyond Election Day was permissible. And that would be a real problem in some rural areas where things frequently don't get there quickly.

JIMENEZ: Yes.

TOTENBERG: At worst, it's probably Alaska where they have outlying islands and everything. So, it's unclear what the court will do, certainly, but it could have a huge impact on the election.

JIMENEZ: It would definitely raise a lot of questions. Nina Totenberg, I really appreciate the time. Thanks for being here. We'll be right back, everyone.

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