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Trump Admin. Turns Focus To Economic Pressure On Iran; Source: Secret Sitdown For Jeffries, Kushner; Natalie Harp Posted More Than 150 Pro-Trump Tweets On Jan 6; Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy Defends New Reality Show Amid Backlash; Polarized Parents Can Raise Ideologically-Divided Kids; California Pastor Creates AI Twin To Reach More People. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired August 23, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

DAN BLUMSTEIN, UCLA PROFESSOR OF ECOLOGY & EVOLUTIONARY BIOLOGY: -- laugh really hard. And, you know, the best thing about being a professor is you get to be surrounded by brilliant young minds, and these guys are both brilliant and we're having a great time doing it.

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: It's great. And I'm really happy that we could have the discussion about it and introduce more people to Fat Marmot Week.

Dan, really appreciate it. Thank you.

BLUMSTEIN: Please vote and stay tuned for the winners. Thank you for having me.

HILL: Oh, I -- we will definitely stay tuned for the winners. And of course, if you would like to vote for the fattest marmot, also to support the Rocky Mountain Biological Lab, at Fat Marmot Week is where you need to go. You'll see the website there.

Good luck. May the fattest, cutest marmot win.

Another hour of CNN Newsroom starts right now.

Thanks so much for joining us here in the CNN Newsroom on this Sunday. I'm Erica Hill in New York.

New tonight, Iran promising to fight back against new U.S. sanctions, which are expected to be detailed tomorrow. The country's top security chief, former IRGC commander, Mohsen Rezaee, vowing to, quote, neutralize the economic war with the U.S., also threatening Gulf states against getting involved.

Now, according to Iran's state-affiliated Press TV, Rezaee is also threatening to halt oil flow out of the Strait of Hormuz for any country that helps the United States. Six months into this war, the U.S. and Iran at a stalemate. Still, Iran continuing to disrupt the global economy by blocking most traffic through that critical waterway. CNN's Julia Benbrook joining us from the White House tonight. So in terms of the administration, we are expecting to learn more tomorrow. Do we know yet if any other countries have signed on board?

JULIA BENBROOK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, President Donald Trump, after months of this conflict, and there's been no agreement reached during negotiations, that he is now making it clear that he plans to exert more financial pressure on Iran.

Now, this appears to be a bit of a return to the maximum pressure campaign against Iran from Trump's first term that works to weaken Iran economically. He laid out this threat in an all-caps message on social media. It said, in part, this will be Economic D-Day. Adding, I am announcing the most crushing economic operation ever taken against any country.

He went on to say, I am also announcing that any country that allows its financial institutions, businesses, airports, or government entities to provide any type of lifeline to Iran will itself face tremendous economic consequences.

This is a sentiment that Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent echoed as he said that they will be applying measures never seen before on Iran. He also issued a threat to countries that want to do business with them.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: If you insist on the doing business with them, either transferring money, buying their oil, they're doing seaborne ship transfers, then the U.S. Treasury and the U.S. government, they will put its full might and force toward enforcing against you.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BENBROOK: We could get more details on this tomorrow as Bessent is expected to hold a press conference in the afternoon.

And all of this, Erica, comes as poll after poll shows that Americans do not approve of the way that Trump has handled this conflict so far. After those first joint U.S.-Israel strikes against Iran, Trump said this could last a matter of days, and then he predicted several weeks. We are now nearing that six-month mark.

HILL: Yes. Julia, appreciate it, thank you.

Also joining us this hour, Trita Parsi, who's executive vice president at the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft. Good to have you with us.

You know, you recently noticed the U.S. seems to be betting on a slower process of economic strangulation here when it comes to Iran. Can that strangulation actually happen without the buy-in from other countries? TRITA PARSI, EXEC. VP, QUINCY INSTITUTE FOR RESPONSIBLE STATECRAFT:

No. Without buy-in from other countries, it is impossible. But even with the buy-in from other countries, the United States can certainly inflict a significant amount of pain on the Iranians, but to bring them to some sort of a breaking point that would cause them to surrender, I find extremely unlikely.

I think we should remind ourselves we've been here before. This is what the maximum pressure sanctions were supposed to do eight years ago when Trump first imposed them. And then later on, this is what the blockade of the blockade was supposed to do four months ago.

So I think there's a lot of countries that are looking at this, and they're quite unconvinced that it will actually bring about that type of a pressure. Will it bring leverage to the U.S.? Yes, it can. The question is what do you do with it?

HILL: Yes.

PARSI: Do you go back to the negotiating table and try to use that leverage to find a deal, or are you continuing to look for a surrender? Because if that's the case, I find this to be extremely unlikely to succeed.

HILL: Do you think there is a plan? I mean, to your point, do you think there is a clear plan to use that leverage in a specific way?

[18:05:02]

PARSI: The signals I'm getting from the White House is that right now the President is actually kind of tired of Iran. He wants to go down this path of economic pressure, and would be quite content if it just leads to a new status quo in which the U.S. manages to get more oil out of the Persian Gulf, the Iranians can't do or won't do much against it. It's just a new status quo. There's no peace, there's no deal, but there's also no escalation.

I also find that to be very unlikely, because if this ends up becoming successful in terms of putting a lot of pressure on the Iranians, then the most likely outcome is that they will counter-escalate. And their counter-escalation could be striking countries in the region or just restarting the war, or a new round of this war. So it's not a stable situation.

HILL: Speaking of striking countries in the region, right? We heard from the UAE earlier this week, and I should point out prior to Donald Trump in his social media post talking about this Economic D-Day, which we're waiting on those details to come tomorrow from Secretary Bessent. But the UAE suspending its commercial activity, financial transactions with Iran in the wake of some more missiles.

I mean, how important -- just put into perspective for us, if you could, how important is the UAE when it comes to not only this the region, right? But potentially to this new U.S. plan to inflict even more economic pain? PARSI: The UAE was actually very important in the past. But already before this war back in February, the Iranians had shifted most of their trade to other routes, not going through the UAE, knowing very well that the UAE is very close to Israel and the United States. And as a result, if they were still controlling a lot of Iran's trade, that would give the UAE a lot of leverage over Iran.

So this will contribute to some of the squeeze on Iran, but most of Iran's trade had already been shifted away from the UAE, which is part of the reason why it's easy for the Emiratis to say that they're taking this measure, because much of it is already lost.

HILL: You know, when we talk about the, what this could look like, I spoke with a number of people over the last week you know, both sort of retired military and diplomatic when they looked at the situation there, and the question about how long, right, could Iran sustain this additional economic pressure.

There is some evidence, right, that it's starting to work a little bit. The reality is this is a regime that is comfortable in some ways with its people being very uncomfortable. And so where a pressure in another country might hit differently because the people would be able to rise up, it is much more difficult in Iran. How does that figure in?

PARSI: What you're pointing to is quite correct. The paradox is that sanctions are actually much more effective against democracies. Because the theory of the sanction is essentially it's collective punishment. You're putting pressure on the population in order for them to put pressure on the decision-makers in their country to change their policies.

But if you're operating in a country in which the population doesn't have that direct impact on policy, then you're just squeezing the populations without it actually leading to that type of a pressure on the government. Look at Cuba, the U.S. has embargoed and sanctioned that country for decades, but it has not led to the type of a scenario that we're talking about here, nor has it in Iran. Iran, we have to remember, has been under U.S. sanctions for more than 40 years. This is why this is -- there has a bit of a deja vu sense, this idea that suddenly on Monday we're going to announce something dramatically different from what it's been in the past.

HILL: I'm also curious just your take. So we heard on Friday from Iran's president who said Iran should end the war now while it's in a position of strength. And then today he said Tehran can't continue with the war forever. Does that give you any insight into what is happening at a leadership level there in Iran and what the situation actually is on the ground?

PARSI: Yes, I think there is a debate inside of the system as to whether they should try to go back to the table more aggressively, or whether they should stick out, stick this out and potentially counter- escalate.

What I don't think there is a huge difference in their view is actually what type of a deal that they're looking for. And what they're looking for, at least what they're saying, is the same MOU that existed before. They want the United States to go back to it. But there's also something else happening here.

I think this is part of a, an attempt by the Iranian government to make sure that they signal some flexibility, which could be helpful if there is a negotiation and they prepare their population for some flexibility. Or if there isn't, if there is an escalation, this is part of the blame game. They want to make sure that they sound as if they were the ones who were ready to negotiate, and that the reason why there ended up being a third round of the war is because of the inflexibility on the American side.

HILL: Trita Parsi, it's really helpful to have your insight. Thank you.

PARSI: Thank you so much for having me.

HILL: In a rare move, the House Minority leader meeting with President Trump's son-in-law for a closed-door session. What those private talks could signal about a future relationship between Democrats and Republicans.

Plus, deleted tweets show Natalie Harp's zealous support of Donald Trump on January 6th.

[18:10:04]

And still ahead, how some lawmakers are now reacting to the new reality show from Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: An interesting meeting to share with you. A source telling CNN President Trump's son-in-law and close advisor, Jared Kushner, recently met with House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries. That meeting between the two was apparently done privately in New York.

[18:15:04]

That's where the source says they discussed ways the White House could work with Democrats on key issues. The timing, of course, can't be missed, just a couple of months ahead of the midterm elections. It also raises questions about whether the White House may be preparing for the potential that Democrats flip control of the House.

Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson downplaying that idea, though, when asked about the meeting earlier today, saying that Republicans will be keeping the House majority come November.

Joining us to discuss, former Pennsylvania Republican congressman Charlie Dent and CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist Maria Cardona. Nice to see both of you.

So I mean, look, this meeting clearly suggests the White House may be preparing for a potential Democratic victory in November. It would not be unheard of for an administration to have these kind of discussions. But Charlie, I think we can all agree what is unusual here is Jared Kushner's involvement. I'm just curious your take when you first saw about this meeting.

CHARLIE DENT, FMR PENNSYLVANIA CONGRESSMAN: Yes, my take was I think it's important that the White House and House Democrats communicate with one another. That's the right thing to do. I did question Jared Kushner, since Democrats are making corruption a big issue, and of course, Jared Kushner's partisan deals that I'm sure House Democrats will be looking at should they take the majority after the midterm.

So I was surprised by that. I thought it would've been much smarter to have Susie Wiles sit down with chief of staff of the White House, have her sit down with Hakeem Jeffries. That would make more sense because she is the one closest to the President, and I arguably is the one who should be speaking for the President.

So but I don't think it was wise to use Jared Kushner, but they should be having this conversation, and Susie Wiles should be leading it.

HILL: In terms of this you know, Jeffries is also getting a little bit of blowback, Maria, for the meeting. His position, it's important to note, if there is a Democratic victory in the midterms, is not guaranteed. There is not across the board a unified message often for Democrats. How should they be playing this moment?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think what this moment signifies is that Republicans are very aware of the huge possibility that Democrats are going to control the House after November, and they're going to want to try to find a way to get things done.

And sure, I agree that Kushner probably may be not is the right person. I think Susie Wiles is the right person. Maybe this is a first step. But there's no question that Kushner has the President's ear. And so when something is important to the White House, important to President Trump, Kushner is normally always involved.

And let's remember that Kushner and Leader Jeffries have a prior relationship. They worked together in Trump's first term for the criminal justice reform. So that always helps to start a conversation, right? And I guess for Leader Jeffries, I think this is an important step as well, because we all know that part of understanding the importance of winning an election is how you're going to deliver. And if you want to deliver for the American people, we're going to have to work with Republicans.

So I think it's very smart. If Democrats are going to govern responsibly, effectively, and impactfully for the American people, they have to work with this White House.

HILL: What I find interesting is we're told some of what they talked about did include housing. Donald Trump, of course, refused to sign a very popular bipartisan housing bill earlier this year.

So Charlie, when you look at this, there may be some willingness, right, on the part of maybe even Jared Kushner, maybe it is Susie Wiles, maybe other people within the administration to perhaps work across the aisle should things not go Republicans' way come November. But if Donald Trump is not on board, does it happen?

DENT: Oh, well, no, it doesn't happen, and the President has to be on board. You just pointed out they -- the Republicans and Democrats agreed on a housing bill. Everybody except Donald Trump apparently. The bill became law without his signature, but that was one example. On cost of living, I think there's probably room for conversation, but the question is what is, you know, what does each side want to do to remedy the cost of living?

I mean, if I were the Democrats, I'd say, let's talk about reducing your tariffs, Mr. President. and, of course, I doubt that the President would want to relax those tariffs. There are all sorts of things they could be talking about, but the question is can they actually come to an agreement on any particular policy measure given the ideological divides?

Although, I will say that when you look at some of the Democrat socialists and the hardcore of the MAGA, I've always said those are two different sides of the same coin that they often -- they're both motivated by anger, and there's some agreement on some policy, but that would often lead out, leave out the political center.

HILL: Yes. It certainly a conversation that we've been hearing more and more. That is true.

You know, when it comes to, Maria, you pointed out that if Democrats were to take back the House, they need to -- I'm paraphrasing here. I'm trying to remember. You said they had to be, you know, sort of respectful, reasonable, right, in the way that they try to legislate.

[18:20:09]

Are you concerned at all too that they not fall into the same retribution trap that we've seen from this president, right? This has very much been his agenda, as opposed to -- an agenda for the American people, despite what he campaigned on. But there are certain Democrats who seem to be campaigning on a similar platform. It's about payback.

CARDONA: I assure you 1,000 percent, Erica, that when Democrats take over the House of Representatives, the number one, two, and three issues on the agenda for the American people are going to be affordability, affordability, affordability. That is what the vast majority of Democrats have campaigned on. That is what the vast majority of Democrats have won on, and that is going to be the utmost priority.

Now, under that comes a lot of things. Under that comes getting rid of the chaos and the corruption. Under that comes making sure that, and this is part of the agenda, that those people who have acted unlawfully and criminally and corruptly are, you know, taken to the full extent of the law. And that, what that means, Erica, is that Democrats are going to have to walk and chew gum at the same time, which of course they can do. But again, let's go back to the number one issue and why Democrats have been able to win or over-perform in over 90 percent of the elections that have happened since Donald Trump took office, is because they have focused on helping Americans make ends meet, while this president and Republicans have betrayed the American people while they promised to do that. They're focusing on tariffs that have exploded prices spending billions on a war that no one wanted and no one needed, and selling the White House to the highest bidder, which we have seen President Trump does almost every single day.

And so that is going to be a huge contrast, Erica, and that's going to be what Democrats are focused on.

HILL: You both mentioned tariffs. I do want to, before we let you go, I do want to talk Canada, right? So, basically new trade war with Canada. Mark Carney was very clear. The U.S. asked too much and offered too little. Former Vice President Mike Pence earlier today told my colleague Dana Bash, the last thing the U.S. needs right now is a trade war with Canada.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

MIKE PENCE, FMR VICE PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: I know the tough line President Trump draws. It usually is accompanied with short-term action and hot rhetoric. We're getting the same from the Canadians. But my hope is, for the sake of American families and for the sake of the American economy that that what we're looking at here is negotiation and not confrontation.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

HILL: A lot of people hoping for a negotiation. Charlie, I don't need to tell you Congress's role here, which has been sidelined. How difficult could it be if this is the -- this is what Republicans are answering for come November?

DENT: Well, I think it's really tragic this really rupture in U.S.- Canadian relations. This should be the bedrock of American national security policy. They're our closest friends and partners. Frankly, they're our brethren. And I think this -- I think the Canadians have a lot of reason to be upset. They have been insulted with all the comments about the 51st state, and other insults to their sovereignty.

And what's, I guess what's so stunning about it is, you know, the President also, you know, really obstructed the opening of the Gordie Howe Bridge, which the Canadians paid for, between Windsor and Detroit. I mean, the, all sorts of things. And then the next breath, and the President's saying, let's resurrect the Keystone Pipeline. Hey, I agree with that.

So he wants to, on the one hand, integrate the American and Canadian economies a little bit more, and on the other hand, he's trying to throw up m- more and more tariffs and obstructing integration with Canada. But which is it? I mean, we need to embrace the Canadians. This is the most absurd trade war, I think, that could have ever been started. I mean, we're also fighting with our partners in Europe. Half of GDP is between the U.S. and Europe.

And so none of this makes any sense, and we need to get off the dime, get to an agreement, and start respecting the Canadians again.

HILL: We're going to have to leave it there, but always a pleasure to speak with you both. Thank you, guys.

DENT: Thank you.

CARDONA: I agree with all of that, Erica.

HILL: I love a moment --

DENT: Thank you, Maria.

HILL: -- when you guys are in agreement. It's a beautiful thing for the country to see.

DENT: Yes.

HILL: Guys, thanks.

CARDONA: Thanks.

HILL: Still to come here, CNN has a look at the flood of social media posts from Natalie Harp, supporting President Trump on January 6th, the day of the Capitol insurrection and riot, here in the "CNN Newsroom."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:29:02]

HILL: Years before Natalie Harp became a key aide, a White House aide to President Trump, she flooded her Twitter feed on January 6, 2021, the day of the Capitol riot, with posts demonstrating extraordinary devotion to him.

CNN's Isabelle Chapman and Andrew Kaczynski reviewed Harp's now removed account on X. And Isabel is with us now.

So, what did you learn in all of these tweets? And there were a lot of them.

ISABELLE CHAPMAN, CNN REPORTER: Yes, so in the last week or so, there has been a lot of attention focused on the President's aide, Natalie Harp, and that's in part because Senator Jon Ossoff invoked her when criticizing the President, but also because of the administration's pushback when it defended her role in the White House.

Her consistent proximity to the President and her loyalty has stood out even among Trump's very devoted inner circle. We wanted to get a sense of how far back this devotion to Trump extended, and we learned a lot in examining Harp's now suspended Twitter feed, which goes back many years. What was particularly interesting was a series of posts related to the events of January 6, 2021, the day Trump supporters broke into the U.S Capitol while Congress worked to certify that Joe Biden was the winner of the 2020 presidential election.

[18:30:17]

More than 150 tweets that have since been deleted. It's unclear if X deleted those posts or if Harp did, but these posts offer a public display of fealty before, during, and after the Capitol riot. At the time, Harp was working as a conservative news anchor, but she continuously praised those fighting to keep Trump in office, and repeatedly cast him in heroic terms.

HILL: So what exactly did she say about the President and about his allies on that day?

CHAPMAN: In one post, she amplified Rudy Giuliani's call, let's have trial by combat. Lawyers for Giuliani later said his call was hyperbolic and not a call for violence. In another, as the President started speaking near the White House, she wrote, Fight for Trump, a dozen times within a single post.

She also specifically called out lawmakers who had supported challenges of the election results, Josh Hawley, Ted Cruz, Marjorie Taylor Greene, praising their courage and calling them patriots. I should add, neither Harp nor the White House responded to our queries about these posts.

HILL: So besides January 6th what else did you find in terms of her posts on X about Donald Trump?

CHAPMAN: Harp had been tweeting for a long time about Trump. We found posts dating back to 2016 praising him. We also found that on the day of his impeachment, she tweeted Bible verses in reference to him. In one, she tweeted at, him saying, I thank my God upon every remembrance of you. And in another she wrote Vindicate @realDonaldTrump, my God, and plead his cause against an unfaithful nation.

Now, all of this fits a pattern that has continued since she began working for the President several years ago similar to the letters from Harp to Trump that were published by The Daily Beast earlier this week in which she wrote to the President about the devotion that she has for him. CNN didn't independently confirm the letters, but the White House did defend them, telling CNN she is, quote, one of the most loyal and hardworking aides of the President.

HILL: Isabelle, really interesting insight when we see those old posts from her. Thank you.

And if you'd like to read more of Isabelle's piece, you can see the full story at cnn.com.

Still to come here, if your kid got into Harvard, would you let them go? Why Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy said, Not a great idea.

You're in the "CNN Newsroom."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:37:30]

HILL: Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy defending his new reality show. It's streaming on the DOT's website. In that series, Duffy and his family take a number of different road trips across seven states, while also talking a lot about their family's core conservative values.

Along the way, the secretary and his wife, Rachel Campos-Duffy, who's a Fox co-host, slam one of America's top colleges as and talk about she also talked about why a good-looking spouse, in her view, is the key to a happy marriage.

Tom Foreman takes us along for the ride.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: his journey takes us through Boston, where American history helped shape the nation.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The great American road trip wasted no time getting to a hot button issue for President Donald Trump.

SEAN DUFFY, TRANSPORTATION SECRTERARY: Let's say you got into Harvard, would you be pushing us to actually have you go?

PALOMA PILAR DUFFY, SEAN DUFFY'S DAUGHTER: Probably.

FOREMAN (voice-over): Discussing college choices with a teenage daughter, the transportation secretary quickly slaps down her dream of going to Harvard as inconsistent with the family's faith.

S. DUFFY: If I send you there, I think what happens is they have professionalized figuring out how they can take good, young girls like you, and I think corrupt their minds.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: Harvard has been a disaster.

FOREMAN (voice-over): That fits into President Trump's long legal and policy battles with the school.

RACHEL CAMPOS-DUFFY, SEAN DUFFY'S WIFE: Catholicism, to us, is everything.

FOREMAN (voice-over): And the secretary's new editorial on the subject dovetails with the steady push of religion, which appears in every episode of this cabinet member's show.

S. DUFFY: Let's pray.

R. DUFFY: Pray.

S. DUFFY: Father, Son --

R. DUFFY: Son --

S. DUFFY: -- Holy Spirit, amen.

R. DUFFY: Amen.

FOREMAN (voice-over): But other parts of the programs are far more secular, including this hot take on how to pick a marriage partner.

R. DUFFY: The key to a good, long-lasting marriage is to marry somebody very good-looking that you're attracted to because marriage involves a lot of forgiveness, and it's easier to forgive someone when you're very attracted to them.

S. DUFFY: What's up Team Boeing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, welcome.

FOREMAN (voice-over): The series, which the Transportation Department says is privately funded, was already drawing fire earlier this year from some Democratic members of Congress, since some of that money came from companies including Boeing, which has faced serious questions and is now featured in the show.

SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND (D-NY): I don't like the fact that it was paid for by companies that you have to oversee, companies that you work with.

FOREMAN (voice-over): What's more, amid rising concern about air safety and soaring gas prices, the whole idea of the secretary making a reality series has struck some critics as a wobbly wheel.

[18:40:09]

SEN. PATTY MURRAY (D-WA): This show is incredibly out of touch with where Americans are.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN (on-camera): And viewership is another problem. The entire series, all six parts where it's posted on YouTube, going into this weekend, had been seen fewer than 20,000 times.

That's a very low number that perhaps wasn't helped by the fact that this series was supposed to come out in June, encouraging families to travel over the summer, but it was late, and it came out this week, just as most kids were going back to school.

Erica?

HILL: All right, Tom, appreciate it, thank you.

Well, you saw part of the clip there from the show where Secretary Duffy is talking with his daughter, Paloma, and his concerns about her going to Harvard and whether it would corrupt her young mind.

I want to share more of that moment.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP) S. DUFFY: You don't have to believe what I believe. You don't have to have the political viewpoints that I have. But I do think it's important that you make those choices for yourself, and you have a fair representation of what they are. And I don't think the Harvards of the world give you that kind of well-rounded picture.

P. DUFFY: But I went to an extremely conservative school in high school.

S. DUFFY: Yes, so --

P. DUFFY: And I'm part of an extremely conservative family. And that if I go to a liberal setting, that's a way more rounded education than if I go to a conservative high school and then go to a conservative college. That's just being kind of one-sided anyways.

S. DUFFY: But they're so good at it. You'll see young people go to a conservative school with a conservative family, and they get perverted and contorted.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

HILL: So the exchange raises an interesting question about the bubbles we all live in. A recent study by the Pew Research Center found just 47 percent of Americans surveyed said they found their fellow countrymen to be morally and ethically good. More than half described other Americans as being bad on some level.

Now, contrast that with Canada, where 92 percent said their fellow Canadians are basically good people.

Kathleen Corriveau's a professor of applied human development at Boston University's Wheelock College of Education, and she joins us now.

I wanted to speak to, that exchange got me thinking, because in some ways it seems to fit perfectly into your current research, which is about polarization. You're specifically looking into polarization involving children. And that Pew polling there, that less than half of the U.S. says their fellow Americans are morally and ethically good, I think really speaks to the polarized moment we are in.

What do you hear when you hear that exchange between a father and a daughter?

KATHLEEN CORRIVEAU, PROFESSOR, BOSTON UNIV. COLLEGE OF EDUCATION: First of all, thank you so much for having me. The exchange actually really came close to home because my oldest daughter is also 17 and also looking at colleges. And so those types of conversations are things that we have in our households now.

But a couple of things stood out to me. One is just this idea that Sean Duffy seems to be concerned about having his daughter in a space where she can hear ideas that are different from the ideas that she's been exposed to at home. And it seems pretty remarkable that his daughter is pushing back and saying that for her own identity development, it's really important for her to be hearing other viewpoints and being able to be making those types of decisions for herself.

HILL: You know, we talk so much about increased polarization these days, and I think oftentimes those conversations tend to be tied to social media or algorithms, right? And there are a myriad of information sources today which are designed to really keep us in our bubbles. But is the explanation really that simple?

CORRIVEAU: In terms of social media and the algorithms that are being used, the explanation is that simple, that a lot of those social media algorithms are pointing you to another source and another video that will also have similar viewpoints on it.

And one of the challenges there is that you're only, again, hearing one side. And when you're only hearing one side, that actually discourages you from seeking out more information and asking more questions. And it also kind of on the flip side of it, allows the current beliefs that you have, because they're so central to your own identity, it allows those beliefs to become more entrenched.

HILL: Are there countries throughout the course of your research and your career, or cultures, where you see kids -- children, families are actively working to raise non-polarized kids?

CORRIVEAU: Absolutely. So we have been collecting data now from about 19 different countries three different waves of data over just about 10 years now with a group of about 200 researchers.

One of the best examples of a country that really allows different groups of individuals to coexist relatively peacefully is Singapore, where there are myriad beliefs happening alongside each other. And learners are perfectly happy to consider alternative viewpoints.

[18:45:11]

HILL: What is, sort of a two-part question for you. I guess, when you think about it, it's I guess it speaks so well to the best way to combat that and maybe reverse the trend is, you know, get out of our bubbles, right? Get out of our comfort zones. Be exposed to more that is different from what we're used to.

And to that point, what is the impact on children when they're not exposed to alternate views or alternate cultures?

CORRIVEAU: Right. So a couple of things. So one thing that I said before is that when you're not exposed to alternative viewpoints you're hearing kind of the same information over and over, and that becomes very central to your identity.

And so one challenge with that is that when you're ex- when -- well, kind of two things. One is that you're not seeking out new information, and the, your current beliefs become entrenched. But the other thing is that because you're not exposed to those other people that have other beliefs, you view them as an entire group of people that is kind of has their own essence. And so, and when you're not exposed to individual people you really kind of think about that other group as something that's very separate from you. And in a sense, it's very easy then to not think about them as almost as worthy of being in situations as you are.

HILL: Kathleen, I really appreciate taking the time to join us and appreciate your expertise tonight.

CORRIVEAU: No problem. Thank you for having me.

HILL: Good luck with the college search. Been there.

Well, meantime, artificial intelligence making its way into the pulpit. Still to come, how some pastors are now utilizing AI to reach their congregations.

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[18:51:22]

HILL: Artificial intelligence really seems to be exploding into nearly every part of our daily lives, and now it includes how some people practice their faith.

A San Francisco Bay Area pastor has launched an AI version of his ministry, which brings a high-tech version of him, his voice, mind, his teachings, all of it into the digital realm. His parishioners can join in from the comfort of their own home whenever they need to seek religious guidance.

CNN's Nick Watt met up with the pastor at his actual brick-and-mortar church.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REV. JUSTIN LESTER, FRIENDSHIP MISSIONARY BAPTIST CHURCH: You forgot who you were talking to. You forgot who my daddy was. You forgot where I came from. You forgot Father Justin. I have thoughts (INAUDIBLE).

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Passion, emotion, love. Black Americans are world leaders at making worship very, very human.

WATT: My church when I was a kid was like this. I might still be religious.

WATT (voice-over): Now, Pastor Justin Lester is pioneering the inhuman. He's cloned his mind, birthed an AI digital doppelganger, which ministers to his flock when the real man cannot.

STEVE SMEDLEY, TECHNICAL DIRECTOR, FRIENDSHIP MISSIONARY BAPTIST CHURCH: I can make an appointment with the pastor, but I can ask this question right now.

REV. STEPHANY BAKER, SPIRITUAL DEVELOPMENT, FRIENDSHIP MISSIONARY BAPTIST CHURCH: It's amazing. You have to try it sometime. WATT: I will. I will.

WATT (voice-over): I did.

WATT: I'm feeling a little lonely today.

LESTER: It's not good for man to be alone. That's scripture. That's truth. And it applies to you right now. Loneliness isn't weakness. It's a signal that you were made for connection.

So here's what I want you to do today. Reach out to one person.

BREANAH DRAKE, EVENT COORDINATOR, FRIENDSHIP MISSIONARY BAPTIST CHURCH: I like to use it when, one, he's away, or two, there's a question I'm too embarrassed to ask him because I feel like I should know the answer to it.

SMEDLEY: Some things you may be hesitant to say out loud.

WATT: Yes, yes, yes, yes.

WATT (voice-over): So how does it work?

LESTER: I connected on YouTube, my TikTok, my Instagram, and everything I've ever written. So all the way back to --

WATT: OK.

LESTER: -- every sermon I've ever preached. Books, all of that are in there.

WATT: Do you obviously evolve as a human --

LESTER: Yes.

WATT: -- and as a preacher and a pastor? Does it evolve with you?

LESTER: Every single day it updates.

WATT: You said in your sermon Sunday to give other people credit. What did you mean?

LESTER: Nick, I appreciate you pressing me on that. Let me be real with you. I was talking about giving credit to the people around you.

It creeps me out because somebody's literally talked to it before and was like, I literally thought you had a conversation with me. So I don't have the video part on --

WATT: OK.

LESTER: -- because that was weird. But --

WATT: OK, so if the tech there catches up, will you do so I can look at you?

LESTER: Absolutely. Absolutely, yes, I'll do it. Because I'm curious about it. I'm an innovator.

DRAKE: I'm not going to lie. I would live for that. I live for that.

WATT (voice-over): He's already launched PastorGPT, which helps other pastors write sermons. And his little church offers coding classes and uses AI to handle the earthly and mundane.

LESTER: I went to school to preach the gospel, to teach the gospel, care for God's people. I did not go to school to e-mail.

WATT: So AI is giving you more time to --

LESTER: Yes.

WATT: -- be human.

LESTER: Absolutely. AI, man, gives me more time to be a better father, be a better husband, to be a better pastor. Hospital visits don't have to be five minutes. They can be 20.

WATT (voice-over): But can AI do this?

LESTER: (INAUDIBLE).

WATT: And when I watch you preach, you know, I see and I feel humanity. I see --

LESTER: Yes.

WATT: -- the frailty. I feel all these human things.

LESTER: Absolutely.

WATT: Can you really bottle that into an algorithm?

LESTER: Oh, no, no, no, no. So AI cannot feel.

WATT: You're also not creating something that's going to replace you.

LESTER: No, no. I think I'm pretty cool. And so, no.

WATT: We're not going to be replacing the pastor.

BAKER: No.

WATT: We're not going to be having weird virtual churches --

BAKER: No, not at all.

WATT: -- with no humans.

BAKER: No. I think what we see is an expansion of the church happening.

WATT: OK.

BAKER: An expansion of love, an expansion of humanity.

WATT: If you try and make the AI twin talk about something random, weird, someone tried Swedish politics, it will not engage. The bot will only talk about things that the real man himself knows about.

[18:55:14]

Also, if you bring up something very serious, homicide, suicide, violence, abuse, the bot will say, that's too much for me, call the pastor. As the poetic pastor himself says, rivers are great because of the banks. AI is great with guardrails. Maybe that's a lesson for the wider world as well.

Back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: Just might be. Nick, appreciate it. Thank you.

Still to come here in the "CNN Newsroom," new video shows the fast- growing fire near Reno. Officials asking tens of thousands of people to evacuate.

The city's mayor will join us live with an update on the fast-moving conditions in the area.

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